virtually no upload ? [Archive]

View Full Version : virtually no upload ?

stuntmanSLim

07-12-2009, 19:05

Hi, for the past 5 days i have had in the afternoons & evenings no upload thus not able to play online games ? i'm on 10mb virgin cable broadband,ambit 256 modem.
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\stunt>tracert www.bbc.co.uk

Tracing route to www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.253.67]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 6 ms 9 ms 154 ms 10.66.188.1
2 181 ms 26 ms 195 ms osr01harb-ge115.network.virginmedia.net [80.1.61
.173]
3 * 114 ms 143 ms osr02perr-tenge72.network.virginmedia.net [62.30
.247.89]
4 26 ms * 227 ms perr-core-1b-ge-010-0.network.virginmedia.net [8
0.0.176.129]
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 66 ms 139 ms * nth-bb-a-as4-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.1
85.105]
7 85 ms 31 ms * nth-bb-b-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.1
85.118]
8 14 ms * 84 ms tele-ic-1-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.
184.2]
9 * 36 ms * pos6-1.rt0.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.237]
10 26 ms * 85 ms 212.58.238.153
11 136 ms 40 ms 94 ms te12-1.hsw1.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.234]
12 191 ms 16 ms 21 ms www-vip.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [212.58.253.67]

Trace complete.

Upstream Lock : Locked
Upstream Channel ID : 3
Upstream Frequency : 37504000 Hz
Upstream Modulation : QAM16
Upstream Symbol Rate : 2560 Ksym/sec
Upstream transmit Power Level : 38.0 dBmV
Upstream Mini-Slot Size : 2

jonnybase

07-12-2009, 19:52

Im having exactly the same probs.

Last couple of days my connection (20meg) has gone down the toilet.

Latency is extremely erratic

broadbandking

07-12-2009, 20:48

Have either of you rang VM?

VMboy

07-12-2009, 21:03

Have either of you rang VM?

If they haven't can you blame them? as all you get when you call is a load of twaddle.

Sorry for the negative but I am sick to the teeth now of Virgin Media, if they can't have a service that matches it's name then they should pack in and leave it up to BT Internet.

stuntmanSLim

07-12-2009, 21:18

Have either of you rang VM?

i tryed phoning VM,they are not taking calls,i put complaint in via email,i get reply saying "is it traffic management,if not put another complaint in",
lol

stuntmanSLim

08-12-2009, 00:22

not sure what this means ?

Mon Dec 07 20:57:21 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:21 2009 Information (7) The s/w filename specified in the config file is the same as ...
Mon Dec 07 20:57:21 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:21 2009 Information (7) A software upgrade filename was specified in the config file.
Mon Dec 07 20:57:20 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:20 2009 Information (7) Authorized
Mon Dec 07 20:57:20 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:20 2009 Information (7) Registration complete!
Mon Dec 07 20:57:20 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:20 2009 Information (7) We registered with a DOCSIS 1.1 config file!
Mon Dec 07 20:57:20 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:20 2009 Information (7) Received a REG-RSP message from the CMTS...
Mon Dec 07 20:57:20 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:20 2009 Information (7) Sending a REG-REQ to the CMTS...
Mon Dec 07 20:57:20 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:20 2009 Information (7) CableModem SNMP configure complete
Mon Dec 07 20:57:19 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:19 2009 Information (7) IP init completed ok
Mon Dec 07 20:57:19 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:19 2009 Information (7) CableModem TFTP init ok
Mon Dec 07 20:57:18 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:18 2009 Information (7) CableModem DHCP client init ok
Mon Dec 07 20:57:18 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:18 2009 Critical (3) DHCP WARNING - Non-critical field invalid in response.
Mon Dec 07 20:57:17 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:17 2009 Critical (3) DHCP FAILED - Request sent, No response
Mon Dec 07 20:57:07 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:07 2009 Information (7) MAP w/initial maintenance region received
Mon Dec 07 20:57:05 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:05 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out
Mon Dec 07 20:57:05 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:05 2009 Information (7) MAP w/initial maintenance region received
Mon Dec 07 20:57:04 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:04 2009 Information (7) Downstream sync ok
Mon Dec 07 20:57:04 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:04 2009 Information (7) Beginning initial ranging...
Mon Dec 07 20:57:04 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:04 2009 Information (7) downstream time sync acquired...
Mon Dec 07 20:57:04 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:04 2009 Information (7) Downstream sync ok
Mon Dec 07 20:57:03 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:03 2009 Information (7) starting ds time sync acquisition...
Mon Dec 07 20:57:00 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:00 2009 Information (7) MAP w/initial maintenance region received
Mon Dec 07 20:56:58 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:56:58 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out
Mon Dec 07 20:56:58 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:56:58 2009 Information (7) MAP w/initial maintenance region received
Mon Dec 07 20:56:58 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:56:58 2009 Information (7) Downstream sync ok
Mon Dec 07 20:56:58 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:56:58 2009 Information (7) Beginning initial ranging...
Mon Dec 07 20:56:58 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:56:58 2009 Information (7) downstream time sync acquired...
Mon Dec 07 20:56:58 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:56:58 2009 Information (7) Downstream sync ok
Mon Dec 07 20:56:57 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:56:57 2009 Information (7) starting ds time sync acquisition...
Mon Dec 07 20:56:55 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:56:55 2009 Information (7) Locked on the downstream. Waiting for UCDs...
Mon Dec 07 20:56:55 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:56:55 2009 Information (7) Downstream lock ok
Mon Dec 07 20:56:54 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:56:54 2009 Information (7) DS channel override in cfg file, re-scanning downstream

Sephiroth

08-12-2009, 00:31

stuntmanSLim

08-12-2009, 00:35

It means that it took about 25 seconds for the modem to reset about 3½ hours ago..

What might be interesting is what the event log said prior to that. Did you reset the modem or was there an event that caused it to lose sync?

i reset the modem but info was same. whats that mean; MAP w/initial maintenance region received ?

Sephiroth

08-12-2009, 09:19

i reset the modem but info was same. whats that mean; MAP w/initial maintenance region received ?

I replied in the other forum! If you don't see a string of critical messages (not just two or three) then the chit chat is normal along with the events.

stuntmanSLim

08-12-2009, 10:54

I replied in the other forum! If you don't see a string of critical messages (not just two or three) then the chit chat is normal along with the events.

Hi, just started up computer etc,etc,look how many criticals now ?

Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Information (7) The s/w filename specified in the config file is the same as ...
Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Information (7) A software upgrade filename was specified in the config file.
Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Information (7) Authorized
Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Information (7) Registration complete!
Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Information (7) We registered with a DOCSIS 1.1 config file!
Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Information (7) Received a REG-RSP message from the CMTS...
Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Information (7) Sending a REG-REQ to the CMTS...
Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Information (7) CableModem SNMP configure complete
Tue Dec 08 10:35:51 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:51 2009 Information (7) IP init completed ok
Tue Dec 08 10:35:51 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:51 2009 Information (7) CableModem TFTP init ok
Tue Dec 08 10:35:51 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:51 2009 Information (7) CableModem DHCP client init ok
Tue Dec 08 10:35:51 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:51 2009 Critical (3) DHCP WARNING - Non-critical field invalid in response.
Time Not Established Time Not Established Information (7) MAP w/initial maintenance region received
Time Not Established Time Not Established Information (7) Downstream sync ok
Time Not Established Time Not Established Information (7) Beginning initial ranging...
Time Not Established Time Not Established Information (7) downstream time sync acquired...
Time Not Established Time Not Established Information (7) Downstream sync ok
Time Not Established Time Not Established Information (7) starting ds time sync acquisition...
Time Not Established Time Not Established Information (7) Locked on the downstream. Waiting for UCDs...
Time Not Established Time Not Established Information (7) Downstream lock ok
Time Not Established Time Not Established Information (7) Sync Start
Mon Dec 07 20:57:18 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:18 2009 Critical (3) DHCP WARNING - Non-critical field invalid in response.
Mon Dec 07 20:57:17 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:17 2009 Critical (3) DHCP FAILED - Request sent, No response
Mon Dec 07 20:57:05 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:05 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out
Mon Dec 07 20:56:58 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:56:58 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out
Mon Dec 07 20:56:53 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:56:53 2009 Critical (3) DHCP WARNING - Non-critical field invalid in response.
Time Not Established Time Not Established Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out
Time Not Established Time Not Established Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out

Stuart

08-12-2009, 11:20

If they haven't can you blame them? as all you get when you call is a load of twaddle.

Sorry for the negative but I am sick to the teeth now of Virgin Media, if they can't have a service that matches it's name then they should pack in and leave it up to BT Internet.

In fairness to VM, if you have a fault and don't report it, how are they going to know? For all most people know, they may have working automatic diagnostic systems that automatically detect a fault, they may also have an area fault that someone else has reported. However, you don't know if either are true, so you don't know the fault has been reported. As such, you don't know if VM know about it.

So, it is always best to report the fault. If VM know, and do nothing about it, that's their fault. We can (as a site) notify our contacts who should be able to get something done. If VM have not been notified, our contacts can do nothing.

i tryed phoning VM,they are not taking calls,i put complaint in via email,i get reply saying "is it traffic management,if not put another complaint in",
lol

Send me your real name, postal address, account number and a contact phone number and I will refer this to our contacts.

stuntmanSLim

08-12-2009, 16:44

http://www.pingtest.net/result/5282974.png (http://www.pingtest.net)

Sephiroth

08-12-2009, 16:47

Hi, just started up computer etc,etc,look how many criticals now ?

Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Information (7) The s/w filename specified in the config file is the same as ...
Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Information (7) A software upgrade filename was specified in the config file.
Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Information (7) Authorized
Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Information (7) Registration complete!
Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Information (7) We registered with a DOCSIS 1.1 config file!
Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Information (7) Received a REG-RSP message from the CMTS...
Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Information (7) Sending a REG-REQ to the CMTS...
Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:52 2009 Information (7) CableModem SNMP configure complete
Tue Dec 08 10:35:51 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:51 2009 Information (7) IP init completed ok
Tue Dec 08 10:35:51 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:51 2009 Information (7) CableModem TFTP init ok
Tue Dec 08 10:35:51 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:51 2009 Information (7) CableModem DHCP client init ok
Tue Dec 08 10:35:51 2009 Tue Dec 08 10:35:51 2009 Critical (3) DHCP WARNING - Non-critical field invalid in response.
Time Not Established Time Not Established Information (7) MAP w/initial maintenance region received
Time Not Established Time Not Established Information (7) Downstream sync ok
Time Not Established Time Not Established Information (7) Beginning initial ranging...
Time Not Established Time Not Established Information (7) downstream time sync acquired...
Time Not Established Time Not Established Information (7) Downstream sync ok
Time Not Established Time Not Established Information (7) starting ds time sync acquisition...
Time Not Established Time Not Established Information (7) Locked on the downstream. Waiting for UCDs...
Time Not Established Time Not Established Information (7) Downstream lock ok
Time Not Established Time Not Established Information (7) Sync Start
Mon Dec 07 20:57:18 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:18 2009 Critical (3) DHCP WARNING - Non-critical field invalid in response.
Mon Dec 07 20:57:17 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:17 2009 Critical (3) DHCP FAILED - Request sent, No response
Mon Dec 07 20:57:05 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:57:05 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out
Mon Dec 07 20:56:58 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:56:58 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out
Mon Dec 07 20:56:53 2009 Mon Dec 07 20:56:53 2009 Critical (3) DHCP WARNING - Non-critical field invalid in response.
Time Not Established Time Not Established Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out
Time Not Established Time Not Established Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out

They are yesterday's criticals - part of your earlier log. None today.

stuntmanSLim

08-12-2009, 16:56

i just reset the modem to get fresh log;

Tue Dec 08 16:53:58 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:58 2009 Information (7) The s/w filename specified in the config file is the same as ...
Tue Dec 08 16:53:58 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:58 2009 Information (7) A software upgrade filename was specified in the config file.
Tue Dec 08 16:53:37 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:37 2009 Information (7) Authorized
Tue Dec 08 16:53:37 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:37 2009 Information (7) Registration complete!
Tue Dec 08 16:53:37 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:37 2009 Information (7) We registered with a DOCSIS 1.1 config file!
Tue Dec 08 16:53:37 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:37 2009 Information (7) Received a REG-RSP message from the CMTS...
Tue Dec 08 16:53:37 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:37 2009 Information (7) Sending a REG-REQ to the CMTS...
Tue Dec 08 16:53:37 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:37 2009 Information (7) CableModem SNMP configure complete
Tue Dec 08 16:53:36 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:36 2009 Information (7) IP init completed ok
Tue Dec 08 16:53:36 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:36 2009 Information (7) CableModem TFTP init ok
Tue Dec 08 16:53:32 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:32 2009 Error (4) ToD request sent- No Response received
Tue Dec 08 16:53:32 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:32 2009 Information (7) CableModem DHCP client init ok
Tue Dec 08 16:53:32 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:32 2009 Critical (3) DHCP WARNING - Non-critical field invalid in response.
Tue Dec 08 16:53:26 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:26 2009 Information (7) MAP w/initial maintenance region received
Tue Dec 08 16:53:22 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:22 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out
Tue Dec 08 16:53:22 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:22 2009 Information (7) MAP w/initial maintenance region received
Tue Dec 08 16:53:21 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:21 2009 Information (7) Downstream sync ok
Tue Dec 08 16:53:21 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:21 2009 Information (7) Beginning initial ranging...
Tue Dec 08 16:53:21 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:21 2009 Information (7) downstream time sync acquired...
Tue Dec 08 16:53:21 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:21 2009 Information (7) Downstream sync ok
Tue Dec 08 16:53:20 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:20 2009 Information (7) starting ds time sync acquisition...
Tue Dec 08 16:53:17 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:17 2009 Information (7) MAP w/initial maintenance region received
Tue Dec 08 16:53:14 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:14 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out
Tue Dec 08 16:53:13 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:13 2009 Information (7) MAP w/initial maintenance region received
Tue Dec 08 16:53:13 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:13 2009 Information (7) Downstream sync ok
Tue Dec 08 16:53:13 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:13 2009 Information (7) Beginning initial ranging...
Tue Dec 08 16:53:13 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:13 2009 Information (7) downstream time sync acquired...
Tue Dec 08 16:53:13 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:13 2009 Information (7) Downstream sync ok
Tue Dec 08 16:53:12 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:12 2009 Information (7) starting ds time sync acquisition...
Tue Dec 08 16:53:10 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:10 2009 Information (7) Locked on the downstream. Waiting for UCDs...
Tue Dec 08 16:53:10 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:10 2009 Information (7) Downstream lock ok
Tue Dec 08 16:53:10 2009 Tue Dec 08 16:53:10 2009 Information (7) DS channel override in cfg file, re-scanning downstream

Sephiroth

08-12-2009, 17:27

That log looks fine to me. When the modem is reset, it negotiates with the CMTS. After so many tries in a particular part of the sequence, it times out and tries again. In your case the reboot took no more than 48 seconds - with a coupe of T3 timeouts. It's all fine from that log.

It seems to me that you're the vitim like many others now complaining of peak time woes while VM mess around with the netwoek and keep quiet about the misery they're causing you.

Nanor

08-12-2009, 17:51

I've been having the same issue in L18 on 20Mb. Was on the newsgroup last week but they could see nothing wrong. I haven't been back in touch as I've not had the time but the missus is going crazy, she's been trying to do some online shopping but many pages are taking an age to load.

I've just run a couple of tests and the upload seems to have improved dramatically, now getting 0.4Mb as opposed to the 0.07Mb I've been averaging over the last few weeks. During this time downloads have generally been OK with the occassional dip below 3Mb. Let's hope this lasts and improves....

stuntmanSLim

08-12-2009, 20:28

stuntmanSLim

09-12-2009, 20:44

All i can put all this national problem down to is all this maintenance work they have done over the year;

http://status-cable.virginmedia.com/vmstatus/maintenance.do

(Virgin Media must still be in progress to get all this to work together with existing network,new docsis swaps & new 50mb) :shocked:

---------- Post added at 20:16 ---------- Previous post was at 19:12 ----------

i found this info in my ebilling,it looks like the downtime was planned...

Partial Months Service 7 November - 20 December £-7.33

---------- Post added at 20:28 ---------- Previous post was at 20:16 ----------

VM take the money out of my bank on the 21st december, so this problem going by the info in ebilling is going to be with me until 20th december at minimum, only seeing next bill in ebilling will tell more info on my problem....

My partial months service discount is nothing to do with my problem,but thanks to person/people from this forum for reporting for me,i recieved a phone call at 6pm & all sorted now,but he said i got to monitor it for a few days. I was told there is two servers in Birmingham & the one i was on had a big fault,so he transferred me to other server.

Thanking you once again for helping me :)

stuntmanSLim

10-12-2009, 12:45

Sephiroth

10-12-2009, 16:20

Hi, I have just noticed VM have put me back to Docsis 1.0, i was on 1.1, will i stay on this docsis 1.0 or will Virgin Media move me back to docsis 1.1 when they have fixed the problem with the docsis 1.1 server ? (I'm on 10mb cable). thx

I shouldn't worry about which DOCSIS you're on. DOCSIS 1.1 allows what are euphemistically called "QoS features" - allowing a suitably equipped cable modem to carry voice & video with their separately configured priorities. Those features are not applicable to our equipment.

Ignitionnet

11-12-2009, 21:31

I shouldn't worry about which DOCSIS you're on. DOCSIS 1.1 allows what are euphemistically called "QoS features" - allowing a suitably equipped cable modem to carry voice & video with their separately configured priorities. Those features are not applicable to our equipment.

Cynic :)

1.1's QoS is truly superb and the basis for numerous PacketCable based telephony and VoD services.

mattysouthall

11-12-2009, 22:04

Could this issue be the same as what im getting here? http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33659087-very-very-bad-lag.html

The lag.

---------- Post added at 22:04 ---------- Previous post was at 22:01 ----------

My partial months service discount is nothing to do with my problem,but thanks to person/people from this forum for reporting for me,i recieved a phone call at 6pm & all sorted now,but he said i got to monitor it for a few days. I was told there is two servers in Birmingham & the one i was on had a big fault,so he transferred me to other server.

Thanking you once again for helping me :)

I live in just outside of birmingham too and im getting very bad latency issue

Nanor

12-12-2009, 15:39

VMboy

13-12-2009, 03:29

Good to hear they have improved.

I was told about the utilisation issue too, so your newsgroups are good.

Sephiroth

13-12-2009, 10:37

Got a response from newsgroup support. Apparently it's a 'utilisation issue' which has been passed on. Not quite sure what that is (can hazard a guess) but I've noticed and improvement in overall performance today alothough upload is still only 1/3 of what it should be.

"Utilisation issue" is, IMO, VM being economical with the truth.

Utilisation of a normally configured network would be X%; utilisation on a half configured network (while they sort out their iother issues) would be 2X%.

So, "utilisation issues". The underlying causes are man-made technical, I believe and VM are still being secretive about what's really going on.

Nanor

14-12-2009, 19:51

"Utilisation issue" is, IMO, VM being economical with the truth.

Utilisation of a normally configured network would be X%; utilisation on a half configured network (while they sort out their iother issues) would be 2X%.

So, "utilisation issues". The underlying causes are man-made technical, I believe and VM are still being secretive about what's really going on.

I'm inclined to believe that, it's suitably vague.

Over the weekend my connection was great, averaged over 19Mb on download and around 0.45Mb upload. I was happy with that but wanted the upload restored to full speed.

Unfortunately tonight it's back to the old ways, download around 4Mb and upload peaking at 0.1Mb! Browsing is a nightmare and many sites are almost unusable. The fault is still under investigation apparently.

I hope this is sorted soon. Never had an issue before this year and now this is the second time I've had real problems with speed. The last time it took over a month to sort, if this happens again I'll be pulling my hair out (mainly because the wife is going crazy trying to do Christmas shopping online :mad:).

Sephiroth

14-12-2009, 19:56

VM should hang their heads in shame for the misery they're causing.