View Full Version : why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?
DarthMuppet
09-10-2009, 22:28
I have been away for 3 days, and when i got back, my WRT54GS had no IP address (using dd-wrt 2.4 pre-SP2, working perfectly when I left). i plugged the modem into the PC, it worked fine, so it's looks like a router issue. I upgraded the firmware, no difference. I gave the router my PC's MAC address, connect the router back into the loop, router got an IP address. So for some reason, VM's DHCP service is ignoring DCHP requests from my router's MAC address. They refuse to do anything as they don't support my router hardware, and refuse to even look at the DHCP server to see if it getting / ignoring requests. If i am really honest, I can't say I'm surprised that they refused, although technically, DHCP is a part of their service and they should at least investigate.
The alternative to a DHCP issue is that someone has cloned my MAC address. this would be in clear breach of VMs terms and conditions (whether they did it knowingly or otherwise), yet they refuse to do anything about it. *That* *really* annoys me. if I did that, and they caught me, I would expect my service to be terminated pretty much immediately. The guy I spoke to also thought that MAC addresses *had* to be globally unique (forgetting the fact that if they did have to be, the individual who cloned mine would not have got on to the VM network at all).
Can anyone else think of any other reasons why I see what I see? if I give the PC the router's MAC address, it doesn't get an address when connected directly to the modem either. When I capture the traffic, I see the DHCP Discover, and nothing more. Right now, I've swapped the PC and router's MACs and all is working fine, but I don't like it. The alternative is a new router (and when dd-wrt supports the WRT-610N, i'll get one), but that needs to be my choice, not VMs.
Anyone think my expectations are unreasonable? Personally, I think the product is excellent, and I would recommend it to anyone, with a warning not to get their hopes up when things go wrong.
We only support wireless connections using Virgin supplied equipment as only those products fall under the support scope, we are unable to support 3rd party products such as your router and we would advise you to call the manufacturers support line.
We support the direct connection to your PC which actually worked when you removed your router.
To have us able to support 3rd party products such as customers own routers it would cost money, so would you like your bill to increase or the support lines to go back to 25ppm as the cost has to come from somewhere.
DarthMuppet
09-10-2009, 22:50
I didn't ask you to support my router, and I never would. I asked you to support your own DHCP service, which you failed to do. DHCP is perhaps the simplest of all things internet. what would it have taken to find my MAC address in your DHCP address, and ask the individual who is in breach of his terms of service to kindly desist in favour of someone who is not? I am of course now making an assumption that this really is the problem - unfortunately, 'your' refusal to take it any further leaves me sort of blind here.
What's more I *proved* whilst I was on the phone my router was not the cause, by giving it my PC's MAC address - but you didn't want to know.
And if I can get to second line support directly when I need it, I'll *gladly* pay 25p a minute. At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. I expect first line to fix the run-of-the-mill stuff for free, but clone MAC addresses is a bit more obscure.
Its your router causing the issue by your own volition because as you say the connection works direct to the modem but not through the router, ergo the router is at fault and the support stops there because the is no actual issue with the connection.
Call the router manufacturer or replace it as Virgin will not investigate a fault with a router not supplied by them.
Also 2nd line will not investigate a fault with your connection which is fine when your 3rd party router is removed either as it is outside of the Support scope.
We do offer support through the PC Help helpline for problems such as this http://www.virginmedia.com/help/pchelp/
DarthMuppet
09-10-2009, 23:00
Its your router causing the issue by your own volition because as you say the connection works direct to the modem but not through the router, ergo the router is at fault and the support stops there because the is no actual issue with the connection.
Call the router manufacturer or replace it as Virgin will not investigate a fault with a router not supplied by them.
Apologies, I edited the above post as you were replying. I added this: "What's more I *proved* whilst I was on the phone my router was not the cause, by giving it my PC's MAC address - but you didn't want to know."
So my router is not the issue. still think it's reasonable to not investigate?
Apologies, I edited the above post as you were replying. I added this: "What's more I *proved* whilst I was on the phone my router was not the cause, by giving it my PC's MAC address - but you didn't want to know."
So my router is not the issue. still think it's reasonable to not investigate?
But it is still a 3 party product and therefore unsupported by Virginmedia here is the link to the Support Scope http://www.virginmedia.com/help/supportscope.php
Our hands are tied and we have to abide by the above criteria and you will see threads on here about us not supporting Outlook for POP3 email, I know it like the back of my hand but I am not allowed to offer support to that product and we get calls like this thread every day and we have to tell them the same answer as above.
DarthMuppet
09-10-2009, 23:16
But it is still a 3 party product and therefore unsupported by Virginmedia here is the link to the Support Scope http://www.virginmedia.com/help/supportscope.php
Our hands are tied and we have to abide by the above criteria and you will see threads on here about us not supporting Outlook for POP3 email, I know it like the back of my hand but I am not allowed to offer support to that product and we get calls like this thread every day and we have to tell them the same answer as above.
from your own page - "Secondly, the problem must be to do with something provided by Virgin Media." I'd say your own DHCP service is something provided by you.
OK, if I give my PC my router's MAC address, it does not work when directly connected to the CM. Now you *know* what the fault is (something to do with DHCP), and you can predict the answers to your checklist. Please tell me how you would troubleshoot it, and what the outcome would be for me.
---------- Post added at 23:16 ---------- Previous post was at 23:11 ----------
Please bear with me on this. This is not personal, I just genuinely don't understand how VM can call this support or service.
I am ITIL trained, and I have spent all of my career involved in service management, engineering or customer service.
To put this in context, I currently provide last-line support 100,000 users globally as a part of a team of 10. I have 300 first line and about 60 second line before me, and any of them can get straight to me if they need to.
jamiefrost
09-10-2009, 23:17
What happens if you give your router a random MAC address will this not solve the problem.
JJ
I can tell that you are IT trained but as I said above you get a connection direct to the modem but not through the router and the router is not supported, I have no input into the support scope but have to follow it.
DarthMuppet
10-10-2009, 08:13
I can tell that you are IT trained but as I said above you get a connection direct to the modem but not through the router and the router is not supported, I have no input into the support scope but have to follow it.
I'm not arguing that at all, in fact I'm asking you to follow your diagnostic process as you would with the advantage of knowing what is actually wrong (assuming I'm right and it is a DHCP issue). if I plug the modem into my PC now, it will not work. You've taken an interest in this personally, and without me taking up anyone else's time on the phone, I would like to know how this would turn out.
Starting from first principles, you should not draw any conclusion about my PC until the diagnostic process is ended. I do not have your diagnostic process, so I don't know what the outcome will be (although I have an idea, and it's not good for me).
Here's a better way of positioning it. Someone has cloned *your* PC's MAC address. what are *you* going to do about it? Whilst you're answering that, bear in mind that this must also be something a user can do.
---------- Post added at 08:13 ---------- Previous post was at 07:58 ----------
What happens if you give your router a random MAC address will this not solve the problem.
JJ
Yes it will, and right now, the router and PC have each other's addresses, but that's not the point. I'm a techie, and I can cope with this because I understand it. My point is that a normal non-technical user with only a single PC whose MAC address has been cloned is going to have challenges getting this fixed.
If the techs I spent 45 minutes discussing this with had actually investigated my issue, I'd a) know more about it and b) probably taken up less of their (valuable) time. 'It's not supported' has its place as a stock answer, and it would be entirely appropriate if my router actually had a fault. I've proved it doesn't, and demonstrated that their service does, yet they refuse to continue diagnosis. I sincerely hope Moldova will continue this discussion.
if I plug the modem into my PC now, it will not work.You don't seem to understand what Moldova is saying. If you phone Virgin up and say 'my connection works when I plug my PC directly into it' then under their support scope your connection is working.
If it doesn't work with other kit that isn't supported - like 3rd part routers - then there is nothing they can do.
Here's a better way of positioning it. Someone has cloned *your* PC's MAC address. what are *you* going to do about it? Whilst you're answering that, bear in mind that this must also be something a user can do.I'm sure Broadbandings will correct me over this - but I wasn't aware that Virgin's DHCP servers worred about the MAC address of what was connected to the modem. I always though it would be down to whether modem is correctly connected as to whether an IP address is issued
I know that there are systems in place that worry about the MAC address of the modem, but its the modem itself that records anything past itself. That record resets in 24 hours anyway.
Personally I'm not aware of any tool that can see the MAC of customer connect equipment - as all the diagnostic stuff I've seen only queries the MAC address of the modem.
Ignitionnet
10-10-2009, 09:48
I'm sure Broadbandings will correct me over this - but I wasn't aware that Virgin's DHCP servers worred about the MAC address of what was connected to the modem. I always though it would be down to whether modem is correctly connected as to whether an IP address is issued
Certainly, Virgin's DHCP servers need to worry about what's connected to the modem otherwise none of us would get IP addresses to our equipment we connect to the modem.
The DHCP servers do two transactions for each modem, one providing the modem with its' 10.x IP address for IP level communication and a second transaction providing a public IP address to the device connected to the modem.
The modem directly triggers the first transaction by broadcasting a DHCP discover when it is coming online, it relays the DHCP discover broadcast from the CPE connected to it when that device is trying to get an IP address. The CMTS notes which cable modem this comes from and makes that available to the DHCP server as well as part of the DHCP options.
Thanks for the clarification ;)
But would a cloned router MAC -as the OP is saying - stop an IP address being issued?
Sir John Luke
10-10-2009, 09:57
At the risk of teaching grandmother.....
Has the OP tried the usual:-
Switch off everything.
Switch on modem - leave until lights settle
Switch on router - leave until lights settle
Switch on PC
Surely the symptoms could be explained by the modem having 'locked on' to the PC's MAC address?
Thanks for the clarification ;)
But would a cloned router MAC -as the OP is saying - stop an IP address being issued?
It would certainly cause problems. I believe it is not possible to assign a public IP address to a cable modem where two CPE's (Client Premise Equipment such as a router or PC)on the same CMTS have the same MAC address. Broadbandings can probably give the correct technical explanation.
The O/P suggests his CPE has been cloned "in breach of Virgins T&C's", I'm not sure this is the case, and its just another user changing their client MAC address in order to resolve an IP lease issue perhaps.
Bottom line - the tech support guys are correct, if you are teching a problem with kit that is not supplied by VM, then there is no support. The O/P has found that a simple MAC address change on the router solves the problem, if I were him I'd move on, problem solved.
The situation could be much worse, for example VM could force its customers to register their equipment MAC addresses, just like the old days of ex cable and wireless (Bromley), and any old tech in Swansea will tell you what a nightmare that was.
Sir John Luke
10-10-2009, 11:01
IF post #14 is not relevant, and someone else has indeed used the same MAC address as the OP's ROUTER, this would not be a breach of any T&Cs. It's only cloning the MODEM MAC address which is 'naughty'. People can set their router or PC MAC address to whatever they like, and if there is a clash, it's just bad luck. (As per Toto's post above).
What WOULD be interesting, is what would tech support do/say if the OP's PC MAC clashed, rather than their router's?
(The OP has already stated that if he swaps the router and PC addresses, connecting the PC direct to the modem, he fails to get an IP address. This COULD be due to the issue in post #14, but if not, what WOULD support do/say? I think that is what the OP is asking, in case soeone else less 'techle' has the same issue).
Tech_Boy
10-10-2009, 11:14
if the OP's router mac address has been cloned, then that has absolutely nothing to do with Virgins T&C's only if some joker had cloned the Modems mac address would there be a breach of the T&C's, and the OP would get either intermittent or no service at all, as the other modem vied with his for connection.
As Moldova has said, the connection works when connected directly to the PC, so as far as the llimits of Virgins support scope goes all is fine.
Virgin cannot be held responsible for what happens with 3rd party equipment & people messing around & changing mac addresses on their equipment, or manufacturing errors causing multiple devices to be sent out with the same mac address. As happened on alot of XP machines when the generic drivers for the onboard nic were used instead of the manufacturers supplied drivers.
There was a list of affected Mac addresses kicking around the knowledgebase, before the dark times,... before the Merger.
Sir John Luke
10-10-2009, 11:17
As Moldova has said, the connection works when connected directly to the PC, so as far as the llimits of Virgins support scope goes all is fine.
... and as the OP has said, if he gives his PC his router's MAC address, the connection does NOT work. Until we hear whether post #14 is relevant, it not worth too much discussion, but if it IS a clash, the the OP would surely be entitled to support under the scope?
moaningmags
10-10-2009, 11:21
It's unusual for a router MAC to be duplicated, whereas it's a lot more common with PC MACs for the reasons Tech_Boy said.
Ignitionnet
10-10-2009, 11:25
Thanks for the clarification ;)
But would a cloned router MAC -as the OP is saying - stop an IP address being issued?
DHCP expects and requires all clients on the same network segment to have unique MAC addresses.
That said I do wonder if that is actually the fault here, but not going to speculate too much :)
Sir John Luke
10-10-2009, 11:25
It's unusual for a router MAC to be duplicated, whereas it's a lot more common with PC MACs for the reasons Tech_Boy said.
...except that I suspect a lot of people still clone the PC MAC into the modem either a) because they are used to this from the 'old days' or b) to avoid the 'power down', 'wait' 'power up' issue every time they switch from router to a direct connection (eg when calling 'support').
DarthMuppet
10-10-2009, 15:12
You don't seem to understand what Moldova is saying. If you phone Virgin up and say 'my connection works when I plug my PC directly into it' then under their support scope your connection is working.
I understand perfectly what Moldova is saying, and I even agree for the most part. However, I have *proved* their DHCP service is at fault. Look at the alternative scenario of the PCs MAC address being cloned - it's perfectly feasible. As I've said before, if i plug my modem into my PC at this moment, it will not work. What I'm trying to show here is that VMs policy of just ignoring this is short-sighted and not in the interests of any of their consumers. Their DHCP service has a problem, or someone has cloned my MAC address - either way 'go away' is in nobody's interest but theirs.
If it doesn't work with other kit that isn't supported - like 3rd part routers - then there is nothing they can do.
and what if someone clones my PC's MAC address? where would this go then? The other thing i'm trying to show is a limitation in their diagnostic process. If it happened to me, it can happen to anyone. does anyone out there know what VMs diagnosis would be had my PCs MAC address been cloned?
I'm sure Broadbandings will correct me over this - but I wasn't aware that Virgin's DHCP servers worred about the MAC address of what was connected to the modem.
All DHCP servers care, as that is how they track address assignment. Also, it is possible to manage static IP addresses via DHCP, by allocating the desired address to the user's MAC address.
Personally I'm not aware of any tool that can see the MAC of customer connect equipment - as all the diagnostic stuff I've seen only queries the MAC address of the modem.
Their DHCP server must have it - that's how, if you turn the device that gets the IP address off (be it PC or router), it will often get the same one back. Mine didn't change for about a year. Funnily enough, it did change whilst I was away. some co-incidence? unlikely.
Any network monitoring tool will allow you to find MAC addresses, as long as it can capture data in the same layer 2 domain as the source. The MAC address is used at layer 2 as the destination for the frame, so if that information must be available. I am the first to admit that my knowledge of cable networks is limited (OK, non-existent :-)), but at layer 3 and above, they all work the same way. I'd be stunned if VM cannot capture all the traffic that my modem passes.
This isn't a rant, BTW - it's not even really a complaint, I'm just trying to show them where they have challenges. Last time I wrote to them, they actually listened and took notice. I need all the facts first before I can do that again, but for some reason, they don't want to give me them.
jamiefrost
10-10-2009, 16:19
I suppose if you really want to get to the bottem of this, change the mac address of the pc to the mac address of your router and phone up Virgin telling them that your broadband is not working.
JJ
and what if someone clones my PC's MAC address? where would this go then? The other thing i'm trying to show is a limitation in their diagnostic process. If it happened to me, it can happen to anyone. does anyone out there know what VMs diagnosis would be had my PCs MAC address been cloned?
Client MAC address information is available to certain VM staff, not all, BenMcr is an example of an agent who can't see this. Probably more second line and technical/security investigations.
The problem is the info is fairly useless to them to the most extent, as client premise equipment registration via MAC address is not required on the VM network, and therefore makes diagnostics tricky in that when a customer changes their cpe address, or cpe all together, it is only seen by virtue of a change of MAC address.
It seems to have worked fine though for the legacy networks in the past, they obviously feel it is not important to have another layer in the modem registration system by forcing the end user to register their computer/network MAC address.
So for some reason your old router address no longer works...have you considered that your area has had a network change such as a service re-segmentation, and that while you were away somebody on a different CMTS with a matching client MAC address was also moved onto the new service with you, and they got an IP address and now you can't?
The diagnostics are there though, perhaps you should push a bit harder, mybe get an escalation to second line - they have the toolsets.
DarthMuppet
10-10-2009, 17:32
if the OP's router mac address has been cloned, then that has absolutely nothing to do with Virgins T&C's only if some joker had cloned the Modems mac address would there be a breach of the T&C's, and the OP would get either intermittent or no service at all, as the other modem vied with his for connection.
not sure I'd agree there - their act (again, assuming it was something that a person did) constituted a denial of service attack against me, and I'm certain Ts&Cs don't permit that.
Virgin cannot be held responsible for what happens with 3rd party equipment & people messing around & changing mac addresses on their equipment
I don't hold them responsible, but I do expect them to deal with it professionally, and deal with the responsible person appropriately, not just tell me to go away.
I hope VM have a method of stopping multiple DHCP offers being sent out to the same consumer.
not sure I'd agree there - their act (again, assuming it was something that a person did) constituted a denial of service attack against me, and I'm certain Ts&Cs don't permit that.
I don't hold them responsible, but I do expect them to deal with it professionally, and deal with the responsible person appropriately, not just tell me to go away.
I hope VM have a method of stopping multiple DHCP offers being sent out to the same consumer.
No disrespect here, you can't honestly call this denial of service against you?
How the hell could VM justify going to a customer, who changes his client MAC address, or maybe used a piece of router kit that has the same MAC address as yours, and say they are performing a denial of service against another user, that's an extremely poor interpretation of VM's AUP, and I don't think even their abuse team could make that one fly.
Sure, if an individual user was excessively changing their MAC address, or their equipment was failing to accept an IP assignment to the point that the leases were being use up - given that a DHCP system only has X number of IP assignments, then yes, that would certainly need investigating.
Stick to the point, you're obviously miffed, perhaps because you have lost an IP address you've had for a long time, but that is no reason for these incredible accusations.
Holly rambling batman, a 1st line agents nightmare.
So the 1st line agent contacts 2nd line and:
sh cab mode xxxx.xxxx.xxxx your device MAC .Second line and security have access to the CMTSes & OSRs'
and the device MAC shows to be on cable 4/1 us0
and cable 5/0 us1 so clearly a clone MAC, DHCP will only offer a IP address to one of the devices.
What do you want VM or the CSR to do, call the other customer and ask them to change their physical address?
And yes VM have a way to stop multiple offers, if its DHCP hammering the modem MAC is put into REGCANC, if it multiple instances of devices being plugged into (read MACs changed) then max_CPE in the config for the CMTS takes care of that, this is usually 4.
-xo|Edit
Its not often I agree with Moldova though in this case he's spot on.
In fact, wheres that rep button?
Holly rambling batman, a 1st line agents nightmare.
So the 1at line agent contacts 2nd line and:
sh cab mode xxxx.xxxx.xxxx your device MAC Second line and security have access to the CMTSes & OSRs'
and the device MAC shows to be on cable 4/1 us0
and cable 5/0 us1 so clearly a clone MAC, DHCP will only offer a IP address to one of the devices.
What do you want VM or the CSR to do, call the other customer and ask them to change their physical address?
Exactly!
DarthMuppet
10-10-2009, 20:05
I suppose if you really want to get to the bottem of this, change the mac address of the pc to the mac address of your router and phone up Virgin telling them that your broadband is not working.
JJ
If I'd realised before I called them, i'd do just that.
---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:45 ----------
Holly rambling batman, a 1st line agents nightmare.
So the 1st line agent contacts 2nd line and:
sh cab mode xxxx.xxxx.xxxx your device MAC .Second line and security have access to the CMTSes & OSRs'
and the device MAC shows to be on cable 4/1 us0
and cable 5/0 us1 so clearly a clone MAC, DHCP will only offer a IP address to one of the devices.
What do you want VM or the CSR to do, call the other customer and ask them to change their physical address?
erm, yes actually. If it is a genuine clone, fine, one of us gets to buy a new router (or live with it in other ways). if they changed it, tell them to change it back to whatever it was before or terminate their service. Why should I, a 15-year loyal customer, have my service denied by someone else and then be told it's down to me to pay to fix it?
And yes VM have a way to stop multiple offers
Good. That would have been a superb DoS attack vector.
---------- Post added at 19:53 ---------- Previous post was at 19:51 ----------
At the risk of teaching grandmother.....
Has the OP tried the usual:-
Switch off everything.
Switch on modem - leave until lights settle
Switch on router - leave until lights settle
Switch on PC
Surely the symptoms could be explained by the modem having 'locked on' to the PC's MAC address?
Yes, I tried that before I called. Well, I listened to the message telling me I should do it and I thought 'lets do it' for a change :-)
---------- Post added at 20:05 ---------- Previous post was at 19:53 ----------
No disrespect here, you can't honestly call this denial of service against you?
Not deliberate, no, but my service has been denied by another individual. I should repeat that this is all conjecture as we don't know all the facts. DoS does not have to be intentional.
How the hell could VM justify going to a customer, who changes his client MAC address, or maybe used a piece of router kit that has the same MAC address as yours, and say they are performing a denial of service against another user, that's an extremely poor interpretation of VM's AUP, and I don't think even their abuse team could make that one fly.
You don't? why? The clue is in the name - Denial of Service. my service has been denied. I did promise to myself I would not let this turn into a rant or a flame war, and I will stick to that.
Stick to the point, you're obviously miffed, perhaps because you have lost an IP address you've had for a long time, but that is no reason for these incredible accusations.
Not sure I've accused any individual of anything - apologies if I have. As I have said repeatedly throughout this, I don;t know the facts amd VM aren't interested in giving them to me.
Losing the IP is not a problem, that's what I have dynamic DNS for. Not miffed at all (at least not that I noticed), just disappointed that VM don't seem to want to improve their service.
I'll ask you the same question. What would you expect VM support to do if it had been your PCs MAC that had been duplicated, preventing you from getting an IP address?
Funny how nobody has actually answered that question yet. Maybe they don't like the answer.
I suppose if you really want to get to the bottem of this, change the mac address of the pc to the mac address of your router and phone up Virgin telling them that your broadband is not working.
JJ
I and many agents use tools along the lines of Coffer.com (http://www.coffer.com/mac_find/) into which we put the learned MAC address from the modem, then we click search and it tells us the manufacturers name, so cloning a router MAC address onto your PC's network card will flag up as a router in most cases, give it a try.;)
DarthMuppet
10-10-2009, 20:22
Client MAC address information is available to certain VM staff, not all, BenMcr is an example of an agent who can't see this. Probably more second line and technical/security investigations.
The problem is the info is fairly useless to them to the most extent, as client premise equipment registration via MAC address is not required on the VM network, and therefore makes diagnostics tricky in that when a customer changes their cpe address, or cpe all together, it is only seen by virtue of a change of MAC address.
It seems to have worked fine though for the legacy networks in the past, they obviously feel it is not important to have another layer in the modem registration system by forcing the end user to register their computer/network MAC address.
So for some reason your old router address no longer works...have you considered that your area has had a network change such as a service re-segmentation, and that while you were away somebody on a different CMTS with a matching client MAC address was also moved onto the new service with you, and they got an IP address and now you can't?
Absolutely. That was actually the only thing I wanted to know when I called. If they'd said yes, i'd probably have just got on with it. The answer was an immediate unequivocal 'no' too. I'd stop short of calling it a lie (as that implies that it was a known falsehood), and I think the tech just assumed nothing changed. That's wrong too - if you don't know the answer, say so, don't guess. Clearly that was not the correct answer as my earlier IP was in 86.x.x.x and the new one is in 213.x.x.x. If that's not a network change, i'll print this out and eat it.
The diagnostics are there though, perhaps you should push a bit harder, mybe get an escalation to second line - they have the toolsets.
Wouldn't it be nice if they just offered to escalate for me?
Have you contacted Linksys for selling you and another customer a device with the same physical address?
How dare they 'Dos' you ;)
DarthMuppet
11-10-2009, 07:43
IF post #14 is not relevant, and someone else has indeed used the same MAC address as the OP's ROUTER, this would not be a breach of any T&Cs. It's only cloning the MODEM MAC address which is 'naughty'. People can set their router or PC MAC address to whatever they like, and if there is a clash, it's just bad luck. (As per Toto's post above).
What WOULD be interesting, is what would tech support do/say if the OP's PC MAC clashed, rather than their router's?
(The OP has already stated that if he swaps the router and PC addresses, connecting the PC direct to the modem, he fails to get an IP address. This COULD be due to the issue in post #14, but if not, what WOULD support do/say? I think that is what the OP is asking, in case soeone else less 'techle' has the same issue).
That's *exactly* what i'm asking :)
DarthMuppet
12-10-2009, 13:22
I was rather hoping that some of our VM staff members would comment on this, but as they haven't, I'll tell you how I think this would play out.
VM confirm after usual restarts that PC gets no IP address (modem direct connect)
VM send engineer, plugs existing modem into his laptop, works fine
User in the brown stuff, off to PC world to get a rebuild.
Machine STILL does not work.
VM say 'engineer's PC works fine, must be your PC hardware'
User goes back to PC World, they say 'it's just fine'
At this point it either becomes a ping-pong match, or the user buys a new PC, all because VM won't investigate what, based on the evidence I've presented, is a clear issue with their own service.
For the sake of Joe Non-Techie, can someone PLEASE tell me I've got that hopelessly and completely wrong.....and if so, how it would really play out.
moaningmags
12-10-2009, 15:16
We can tell if it's a duplicate NIC MAC and do tell this to the customer.
Have you contacted Linksys as suggested by xocemp to find out why they sold a device to you and another customer that has the same physical address or do you not think they're responsible?
DarthMuppet
12-10-2009, 16:26
We can tell if it's a duplicate NIC MAC and do tell this to the customer.
I'll assume you work for VM based on that. It would be nice to know why nobody offered to do that. If its NOT a dupicated MAC address (and it is possible that it isn't) what else could it be? I see DHCP discover, but no response.
Have you contacted Linksys as suggested by xocemp to find out why they sold a device to you and another customer that has the same physical address or do you not think they're responsible?
I'm not convinced Linksys are at fault here, but I may well ask them. In this day and age, there is no excuse for manufacturing kit with identical hardware addresses. Unless we've run out :)
So, if a user had had their MAC address cloned, the outcome would be different to the new PC / rebuild / ping-pong match I described above?
I'll assume you work for VM based on that. It would be nice to know why nobody offered to do that. If its NOT a dupicated MAC address (and it is possible that it isn't) what else could it be? I see DHCP discover, but no response.
I'm not convinced Linksys are at fault here, but I may well ask them. In this day and age, there is no excuse for manufacturing kit with identical hardware addresses. Unless we've run out :)
So, if a user had had their MAC address cloned, the outcome would be different to the new PC / rebuild / ping-pong match I described above?
You may be interested to know that a while ago a large batch of motherboards were dispatched with ethernet ports that all had the same MAC address. If memory serves it caused some problems for Virgin Media, or ntl as they were then known.
Raistlin
12-10-2009, 17:25
I'm not convinced Linksys are at fault here, but I may well ask them. In this day and age, there is no excuse for manufacturing kit with identical hardware addresses. Unless we've run out :)
You'll most likely find that's not the case.
I strongly suspect that someone has simply changed their MAC address to get around an IP issue of some sort, possibly to force a change of their public IP address, and that they happen to have changed it to the same value as yours.
To be honest I think that by now I'd have just made things work (which you've obviously already done) and then moved on. I appreciate how frustrating these things can be, but sometimes they're really not worth the time.
Get yourself down to Pop Bellies on the High Street and partake of the Eggs Benedict (with ham) that they do - it's sublime, especially with a nice coffee, and will definitely make you feel better (always works for me) :D :D
Oh, and <offtopic> if you happen to hear of any good technical security jobs going at whatever (large by the sounds of it) company you work for do give me a shout won't you - I could do with a change of job :p: </offtopic>
I was rather hoping that some of our VM staff members would comment on this, but as they haven't, I'll tell you how I think this would play out.
VM confirm after usual restarts that PC gets no IP address (modem direct connect)
VM send engineer, plugs existing modem into his laptop, works fine
User in the brown stuff, off to PC world to get a rebuild.
Machine STILL does not work.
VM say 'engineer's PC works fine, must be your PC hardware'
User goes back to PC World, they say 'it's just fine'
At this point it either becomes a ping-pong match, or the user buys a new PC, all because VM won't investigate what, based on the evidence I've presented, is a clear issue with their own service.
For the sake of Joe Non-Techie, can someone PLEASE tell me I've got that hopelessly and completely wrong.....and if so, how it would really play out.
VM confirm after usual restarts that PC gets no IP/169 address (modem direct connect)
VM first line agent has customer remove coax or put modem in standby, customer gets a 192.168.100.1 to .11 IP. ( All very cleaver this DHCP stuff ;) )
VM first line agent contacts 2nd line who search the CMTS and ARP for the physical address.
For the rest of what VM 2nd line do reread this post
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34887846-post27.html
<off topic>
I'm off to pop bellies, it sound good
</off topic>
DarthMuppet
22-10-2009, 07:20
That's good information - thanks. i'll try the bit with the coax removed at some point to see what happens.
I've now been told by VM that my router's MAC does not appear to be in the DHCP logs or tables anywhere. Thinking about it, DHCP makes no special case for a request where the MAC is already in the table - if it did, tools like dhcploc would not work.
Interestingly, since this began, i now have to reboot my router every 2 days, - i can get to my router's management page, but not through it to the CM.
I have a WRT54G on 20Meg and have been seeing the same occasional loss of DHCP lease renewal as you. The simple answer is to reboot the router to force it to renew its lease with the modem.
The changes were evident after I was put back on the 50Meg set-up using Docsis file 1.1 as opposed to 1.0. The change was from never having to reboot the the router to frequently but of late it has held without rebooting which tends to point to something being done at VM's end.
My router is cloned to the MAC of my primary PC but as far as I can tell, a PC will automatically search for a new connection if dropped but a router just sits there like a dummy until its pre-programmed renewal time is right,
I do not think that anybody has asked you if other changes have taken place or what BB you are on and what appears in your event logs. I would guess that as you have had an IP change, that you are on 20Meg and have been migrated.
DarthMuppet
22-10-2009, 21:07
VM confirm after usual restarts that PC gets no IP/169 address (modem direct connect)
VM first line agent has customer remove coax or put modem in standby, customer gets a 192.168.100.1 to .11 IP. ( All very cleaver this DHCP stuff ;) )
VM first line agent contacts 2nd line who search the CMTS and ARP for the physical address.
I got 192.168.100.11 when i unplugged the coax, put the router's original MAC back and rebooted it. Reconnected coax, rebooted router and i got another 213.x.x.x address, so problem now seems resolved.
So i'm guessing the modem is providing DHCP when there's no Coax link so the local hardware can talk to the modem (neat idea), but i'm none the wiser as to the cause of my problem. Ah well.
Thanks to you all.
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