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djb61
06-10-2009, 20:00
I've seen a few posts here regarding 20MB now costing less than £37pm, today however I got my bill and am still being charged at £37pm, is this right?

Below is the full breakdown of the service charges on the bill which cover the period 30 September - 29 October:
Line Rental £11.00
Talk Evening & Weekend £3.45
Phone, TV & BB Bundle Saving -£9.50
Calldispl £2.00
TV Size: X L £23.00
Broadband Size: X L £37.00
Paper Bill Charge £1.25

Total service charge of £68.20

Now taking off the caller display and paper bill to just leave normal BB/TV/Phone charges this comes to £64.95

I've just been playing around with http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/bundles/triple-builder.html , a bundle of XL BB, XL TV and L phone is coming up at £44.95 (plus £11 for the line rental) so £55.95, £9 less than what I am paying and no mention of those being some short term promotional prices. In fact according to the bundle builder having XXL BB, XL TV and L phone would be £52.95 so £63.95 with the line rental or £1 less than what I'm paying.

I assume I should be ringing up to complain or am I missing something in their horribly complicated pricing structure?

Sephiroth
06-10-2009, 20:07
Right. Tell them. They're really unethical IMHO.

Ignitionnet
06-10-2009, 20:09
They obfuscate the bills by quoting prices then adding discounts like:

Phone, TV & BB Bundle Saving -£9.50

Which reduces your 20M from 37GBP, which it's left at so they can charge people who don't call in to get the currently advertised price, to some random figure Virgin pick out of a hat.

BenMcr
06-10-2009, 20:09
BB XL always shows on the bill as £37.

The difference between the OP services and the current price is the amount of discount recieved.

Ignitionnet
06-10-2009, 20:13
Any particular reason why it doesn't show as 30, that being the current stand-alone price that should not be exceeded, beyond as I suggested being a way to extract another 7 pounds a month from the unwary?

BenMcr
06-10-2009, 20:19
I'm not going to get into that as I have no involvement in how VM do their pricing.

Ignitionnet
06-10-2009, 20:20
I'm not going to get into that as I have no involvement in how VM do their pricing.

A wise move :)

dazzy316
06-10-2009, 20:30
Any particular reason why it doesn't show as 30, that being the current stand-alone price that should not be exceeded, beyond as I suggested being a way to extract another 7 pounds a month from the unwary?

So vm should only be charging £30 (20mbb) & £11 (phone line) for the 2?

BenMcr
06-10-2009, 20:39
No they shouldn't

dazzy316
06-10-2009, 20:58
So £48 for 20mb & a phone line is correct (for existing customers)? thats what it will show & be taken from my acc at the end of each month.

AndyCalling
06-10-2009, 21:23
No, 20meg and phone M (inclusive weekend calls) is £20+£11=£31. You will pay more for a higher phone package though. Also, there's an extra discount of £10 a month for the first three months for new subscribers (and I assume new contract signups).

This is what I have. Mind you, I don't have telly with Virgin.

dazzy316
06-10-2009, 21:51
No, 20meg and phone M (inclusive weekend calls) is £20+£11=£31. You will pay more for a higher phone package though. Also, there's an extra discount of £10 a month for the first three months for new subscribers (and I assume new contract signups).

This is what I have. Mind you, I don't have telly with Virgin.

Thats the package my friends are on aswell, but virgin simply say they can't give me it.

All they say is the only offer to existing customers is £37 for 20mb & £11 for standard phone line.

I've asked 4 people at VM now why I can't have that & they say its only for new customers. Then they go on to say thats why existing vm customers are getting the 50mb & phone line as they are saving £4 a month as its £44.

I really don't understand why Im not entitled to 20mb + a standard phone line for less than £48 a month.

I've been with them for 4 years + & am not under any contract either.

AndyCalling
06-10-2009, 22:16
The usual response to that question on these forums appears to be 'Call retentions'. I assume that option is on 150 somewhere.

Tony.
06-10-2009, 22:21
The usual response to that question on these forums appears to be 'Call retentions'. I assume that option is on 150 somewhere.

Under the 'thinking of leaving us' option

Bonglet
07-10-2009, 07:43
Just hand your notice in and then re-connect as a NEW customer, will have the vm bods fuming if everyone does that as it will screw there churn rates up, thats what im going to do anyhow not passing the current saving onto customers straight away gives the feeling of vm ripping you off all the time ;p.

Ignitionnet
07-10-2009, 09:51
So vm should only be charging £30 (20mbb) & £11 (phone line) for the 2?

Yes at very most, if not the 20 + 11 bundle - there is no place on the website or any price list where the price of 37GBP for 20Mbit is present.

You will note a few people referring to a 'list price' - this is not the case because that list simply doesn't exist.

The only place that this 37GBP price exists is within VM's billing system, that along with the 45GBP are little traps to catch existing customers like you and me and rip us off.

You may, if you have the time, wish to write http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/contact?action=complain and complain both about the lack of a price list and the attempt to charge a completely unadvertised price for goods.

browney
07-10-2009, 10:39
Download Failed (1) (http://browneyonline.co.uk/imagehosting/view-592_vm.JPG)

Pepperdog
07-10-2009, 11:21
I've seen a few posts here regarding 20MB now costing less than £37pm, today however I got my bill and am still being charged at £37pm, is this right?

20MB is £20 per month if you have a VM landline http://allyours.virginmedia.com/websales/product.do?id=3246.

Your situation isn't greatly different to my own if you read http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33656269-why-am-i-paying-20-p.html

The bottom line is that you are being ripped off. I called customer retentions and they were less than helpful to me, so I ended up cancelling all the services I have with them.
I'd suggest that you do actually call them, but make a list of exactly what your expectations are. If they will not play ball then cancel. You can either rejoin as a new customer and get the benefits (as someone already suggested) or you can simply go elsewhere and they lose. A BT landline will probably be cheaper, O2's broadband is a lot cheaper and if you want a TV package, Sky is cheaper and more flexible.

Watch out for them lying about your contractual obligations to them as well, they seem to have assumed penchant for that.

BenMcr
07-10-2009, 11:23
Watch out for them lying about your contractual obligations to them as well, they seem to have assumed penchant for that.How exactly?

Pepperdog
07-10-2009, 11:53
How exactly?



I've described what happened frankly and honestly in my post, which you've replied in, more than once. It's odd that you've passed comment in the thread and failed to pick up on it there.

Ignitionnet
07-10-2009, 11:59
http://browneyonline.co.uk/imagehosting/images/592_vm.JPG (http://browneyonline.co.uk/imagehosting/view-592_vm.JPG)

Selfcare is wrong.

Always a comfort with the pricing when VM can't even keep their own website up to date. XXL can't go above 45GBP, and given that there's no reason to rate the accuracy of anything else.

Thanks for the image though, I will note it down and store it as an example of VM's inability to even know themselves how they price packages and keep their websites up to date. :)

zing_deleted
07-10-2009, 12:00
I think everyone who is confused by VMs billing structure should get in touch with their local trading standards and watchdog. In fact if someone wants to do this and create a thread on it I am sure it would get a lot of backing. Maybe someone with better grammer skills than I could draft a letter which everyone concerned could send into VM Trading standards and Watchdog. I have a valid reason why I can not take this on but someone should.

VMs pricing structure is a joke and made imo deliberately to muddy the waters and confuse people

Pepperdog
07-10-2009, 12:06
Selfcare is wrong.

Always a comfort with the pricing when VM can't even keep their own website up to date.

That's absolutely true and I raised the point with retentions. Different sources of published information are inconsistent. They didn't have an answer for it.

zing_deleted
07-10-2009, 12:07
and they wont cuz most of em do not really know the structure themselves.

Even Ben who was the one everyone thought knew all the prices was inaccurate when quoted as saying "everyone pays the same for XXL" because as poor Broadbandings found out he has to pay more

My bill ended up being right expect they didnt discount me from Sept first they just discounted Octobers so I will be on their case for the £6.50 they owe me

RobboEdin
07-10-2009, 12:27
VMs pricing structure is a joke and made imo deliberately to muddy the waters and confuse people

They are not unique. Has anyone seen how BT bill their Evening and Weekend with 12 month renewable contract, priced at £11.25?

I'll give you a clue - it isn't:

Evening and Weekends £11.25 x 3 = £33.75

on their quarterly bill.

It is WORSE than Virgin Media billing!

Ignitionnet
07-10-2009, 12:30
They are not unique. Has anyone seen how BT bill their Evening and Weekend with 12 month renewable contract, priced at £11.25?

I'll give you a clue - it isn't:

Evening and Weekends £11.25 x 3 = £33.75

on their quarterly bill.

It is WORSE than Virgin Media billing!

Err yes. It's 11.25 a month. It's advertised as being 11.25 a month. You are paying it quarterly (every 3 months). So you pay 3 months at a time. 11.25/month x 3 for the 3 months in the quarter = 33.75.

This confuses you how, or are you trying to misdirect criticism away from VM billing?

Either you're trying to misdirect or you should seriously consider engaging a life coach, so I'm interested in which it is :)

RobboEdin
07-10-2009, 12:41
Err yes. It's 11.25 a month. It's advertised as being 11.25 a month. You are paying it quarterly (every 3 months). So you pay 3 months at a time. 11.25/month x 3 for the 3 months in the quarter = 33.75.

This confuses you how, or are you trying to misdirect criticism away from VM billing?

Either you're trying to misdirect or you should seriously consider engaging a life coach, so I'm interested in which it is :)

Sorry - what I am saying is that I cannot tell from the very confusing bill I get from BT whether I really am paying £11.25 per month.

Nowhere on the BT bill does it say £11.25 per month for three months.

VAT is stripped out from ALL charges and added in as a lump at the end.
There is a quarterly ex VAT price for the service.
There is in a different place, an ex VAT discount for paperless billing.
There is in yet another place, what I think is the ex VAT discount for the 12 month rolling contract (I think that's what Account Level means!).

There is no need to strip out VAT for a residential customer.
There is no need to have anything other than 3 x £11.25 = £33.75 but they do. Why? To confuse in the same way you are suggesting Virgin Media confuse with their pricing.

Ignitionnet
07-10-2009, 12:52
BT bills have always been that way? I don't remember hearing much of people kicking and screaming about them but you'll be pleased to know BT are sorting it anyways: http://www2.bt.com/static/i/beta/understandmybill/pages/paper_bill_newstyle.html

RobboEdin
07-10-2009, 13:01
BT bills have always been that way? I don't remember hearing much of people kicking and screaming about them but you'll be pleased to know BT are sorting it anyways: http://www2.bt.com/static/i/beta/understandmybill/pages/paper_bill_newstyle.html

That's good news, Broadbandings. Thanks for the link.

We need Virgin Media to do the same!

BenMcr
07-10-2009, 15:04
Even Ben who was the one everyone thought knew all the prices was inaccurate when quoted as saying "everyone pays the same for XXL" because as poor Broadbandings found out he has to pay moreEverytime I said that it was because I was answering a question about someone upgrading to XXL, not downgrading services.

rjsetford
07-10-2009, 15:17
I had to make four phone calls yesterday to get my TV package upgrade. Each time I called, I got a different price, a different offer, the run around, etc etc.

First real bad experience with VM I must say

dazzy316
07-10-2009, 16:39
I just phoned up again, this time I went to the "thinking of leaving us" option.. rather than the bills/account option. I told the guy I thought it was rather unfair I was getting charged £37 for the 20mb bb then £11 on top of that for a phone line as loads of others I know get it really cheaper.

The guy agreed with me & reduced my cost from £48.50 a month to £32.50 a month (I can get 1.25 knocked off that too if I choose paperless billing).
He also gave me some credit back, which was really nice of him as I never asked for that.

I really suprised & happy at how good I was treated today & the fair way I was treated.
I am a little bemused still at how different departments of VM are willing to help/listen whilst others arent.

Anybody else still paying £37 for 20mb just do what I did & call the thinking of leaving line (thankyou those that mentioned it before as Id never of tried it otherwise).

Pepperdog
07-10-2009, 19:47
Good result matey, I'm pleased they sorted it for you. That's how it should be (apart from the fact they were ripping you off in the first place.)


I am a little bemused still at how different departments of VM are willing to help/listen whilst others arent.

Not only that, but the individual you get to speak to when you do get through to the 'right' department will influence the experience you get. Just like the pricing and what people are being charged, it's inconsistent.

AndyCalling
07-10-2009, 21:18
So, for the future, the approach is to keep calling Virgin with whatever issue you have until you get the answer you want, trying every option on the phone that seems even slightly relevant. They clearly give their staff a lot of negotiating room. It's nice to know the right approach, and this one's fine by me (so long as you have a Virgin line and get 150 for free). I'm just surprised that Virgin put up with this system as it will cost them a fortune in staff just to handle the masses of calls this must generate.

I bet they're getting at least three times the volume of calls with this 'haggle and bargain' method than they would get with the more usual 'company line' approach. Still, whatever their share holders want I suppose.

djb61
16-10-2009, 15:52
As a followup to the original post of mine that started this thread I decided rather than arguing with VM that I would take the opportunity to upgrade to 50mbit instead.

Using the bundle calculator on the website having 50mbit BB along with the XL TV and L phone I currently have would be £1 LESS a month than I currently pay. I rang them and asked what my monthly bill would be if I was to switch to 50mbit and was told it would reduce my bill by £1 a month (which they said without any indication that this seemed odd to them, but it was some hard to understand indian) exactly as the website suggested. So I placed the order for 50mbit which should be installed on the 11th. Upgrading to 50mbit is something I'd been considering anyway and with it actually reducing the monthly bill it seemed silly not to (installation charges aside).

To me though this really does illustrate the sheer ridiculous nature of VM's billing in that upgrading to a higher level service reduces the amount that it costs.

Sephiroth
16-10-2009, 22:52
@djb61

You gotta pray that you don't become one of the 50Mbps horror stories we're reading on here.

freebeerz
17-10-2009, 16:05
Hi,

Here is my experience with this, having just received a £37 bill for 20MB XL broadband with no other service (I was paying £28/month until now)

I called the VM customer service and explained that new customers pay £30 for XL broadband without a phone (£25 for the first 3 months) and that I couldn't see anywhere on their website a price of £37 for that same service.
The lady told me that it's all in the small print and these new customers would end up paying £37 too. Of course she couldn't tell me where this was explained on their website and she then tried to sell me the 50MB service for £38/month + £55 installation charge which I am not interested in.

I insisted for another 10 minutes that I didn't understand where this £37 charge came from and was eventually offered £29/month if I renewed my contract for another 12 months, which I accepted.

I think they treat their existing customers like crap, especially when lying outright about "hidden charges" in the small print when you point out that new customers end up paying less in the long term than loyal customers!

Sephiroth
17-10-2009, 22:58
Hi,

Here is my experience with this, having just received a £37 bill for 20MB XL broadband with no other service (I was paying £28/month until now)

I called the VM customer service and explained that new customers pay £30 for XL broadband without a phone (£25 for the first 3 months) and that I couldn't see anywhere on their website a price of £37 for that same service.
The lady told me that it's all in the small print and these new customers would end up paying £37 too. Of course she couldn't tell me where this was explained on their website and she then tried to sell me the 50MB service for £38/month + £55 installation charge which I am not interested in.

I insisted for another 10 minutes that I didn't understand where this £37 charge came from and was eventually offered £29/month if I renewed my contract for another 12 months, which I accepted.

I think they treat their existing customers like crap, especially when lying outright about "hidden charges" in the small print when you point out that new customers end up paying less in the long term than loyal customers!

Their web site doesn't mention £37/month in the small print. Look at this link:

http://allyours.virginmedia.com/websales/product.do?id=3246

Without a phone line 20 Mbps is £30/month. List price. So they're lying if they say £37/month is in the small print. Disgraceful.

Now, will the indefatigable BenMcr defend what you report?