Newsgroups [Archive] - Cable Forum

beanie

04-09-2009, 07:14

I dont use Newsgroups much but I have noticed that there are some well dodgy newsgroups available through virgins newsgroup service, for example:

alt.es.hackers.software

Why are they listed? Can Virgin not remove them?

It's quite easy to see that its a complete abuse of virgins service, or is it not hosted on there servers?

bigsinky

04-09-2009, 07:30

most ISPs will offer some form of newsgroups. some like giganews, astraweb offer full uncensored news groups. some ISP restrict the alt.binaries newsgroups becuase of the XXX material that can be downloaded.

Yes VM can remove them if they want.

beanie

04-09-2009, 07:34

Is there a formal way to get these removed?

Im more than happy to compile a list of newsgroups which are related to illegal downloads / inappropriate material.

Kymmy

04-09-2009, 08:26

Is there a formal way to get these removed?

Im more than happy to compile a list of newsgroups which are related to illegal downloads / inappropriate material.

In that case you'd end up removing 99% of the binaries groups and there'd have a lot of unhappy people...as well as VM having a lot less subscribers all of a sudden ;)

As VM will probably say, if you don't want them, then don't subscribe to them...

Sirius

04-09-2009, 08:26

Is there a formal way to get these removed?

Im more than happy to compile a list of newsgroups which are related to illegal downloads / inappropriate material.

:rofl::rofl:

die5el

04-09-2009, 08:28

You dont only have newsgroups to download illegal downloads next you will want to remove google from virginmedia servers like you said you dont use Newsgroups nor do i but why does it bother you it doesnt bother me because things are on the net you dont have to read or download from them.If it is a kiddie fiddling site or known for distributing kiddie pron then im with you 150% for removing them

bopdude

04-09-2009, 08:29

:rofl::rofl:

I thought that might tickle you ;)

beanie

04-09-2009, 08:30

Well that was kind of my aim! lol

I dont agree with people downloading software illegally and it was pointed out to me that Binary Newsgroups were a big part of it. Using methods like SSL Encryption it would make it hard for ISP's to monitor the use.

Kymmy

04-09-2009, 08:34

Totally agree on things like the paedo sites, but the example given was a spanish hacker group without the OP understanding what that group is about ;)

Ignore the name as it can be totally incorrect compared with the content..

Like for example a.b.boneless or do you assume that it's about succulent chicken breasts or perhaps people hacking up other people and removing thier bones.. You;d be wrong on both counts!

bopdude

04-09-2009, 08:36

beanie

04-09-2009, 08:37

I read the messages in there! I know the Subject could be misleading!

Kymmy

04-09-2009, 08:40

zing_deleted

04-09-2009, 08:45

They aint VMs servers anyway they belong to a much bigger group of which IIRC Easynews is part of it. When VM changed over to the new servers loads more groups became available just a shame retention is crap

beanie

04-09-2009, 08:46

Any beanie, all the hacking software is legal to have, it's what the person after they download it that does with it thats illegal.. So how can VM justify removing said legal group??

I think that someone needs to go and rethink thier plan

Because it's promoting the illegal file sharing which in turn is (possibly) giving powers to force ISP's to disconnect users that persistently fileshare. If users are disconnected from the net, they wont be able to pay Virgin for an internet service after there contract is up!

So its a future investment! lol

Kymmy

04-09-2009, 08:54

Hmmmm, someone please wake me up, I seem to still be dreaming in a fantasy world..

Beanie, even if ISP's were forced to DPI newsgroups to find illegal 'sharers' they wouldn;t have much luck as there's very few sharers on the newsgroups but instead downloaders. The downloaders havn't yet been taken to court by the software/production houses as they're not worth a lot to them unlike the P2P sharers, not they've been targeted by these companies (well not actually the companies but unscrupilous solicitors working on behalf of them) purely as a money gaining excercise. When one downloads on P2P you also share to a large number of people (for ever single file you might of shared the file to over a hundred people) and this is where the companies then take you to court.

Now as for VM stopping the newsgroups they then might as well just give up on selling any more XL or XXL internet packages and file for bankcruptcy later this week..

BUT it simply will not stop the newsgroup UPLOADERS who tend to be in the US, Russia or Far East..

Ignitionnet

04-09-2009, 09:00

I'm trying to figure out ways to say 'Get a life' without being rude. Sadly none come to mind so I won't :)

beanie VM don't host the content it's hosted by a 3rd party called Highwinds. In any event the content is mirrored across several different servers throughout the world.

Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenetfor more information on how it actually works.

In the interim don't worry yourself. Bizarrely enough VM, and everyone else connected with the copyright and ISP World, are very aware of the >1TB a day of warez, porn, movies, etc that are on Usenet.

---------- Post added at 09:00 ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 ----------

Because it's promoting the illegal file sharing which in turn is (possibly) giving powers to force ISP's to disconnect users that persistently fileshare. If users are disconnected from the net, they wont be able to pay Virgin for an internet service after there contract is up!

So its a future investment! lol

In other news also, as per the link I supplied it's not file sharing, people don't share the content they download from Usenet back to the community making it perfect for those somewhat sad people who just sit there collecting DVDs they are never going to watch just because they can.

beanie

04-09-2009, 09:00

Thanks for explaining that Kymmy. As i say im a newbi to newsgroups! Just seems from the research I have done in the last 3/4 hours that most of this Newsgroup servers have been setup deliberately for file sharers!

Shame Ofcom didnt put a limit on the max size that was allowed to be posted in one message, like 3MB or something, not like these 51M newsletters ROFL. I know that would only help stop people in the UK uploading files, but would be a nice start!

Im kinda getting the opinion your not happy with my thoughts lol

bopdude

04-09-2009, 09:02

So tell us Mr. self righteous file swapping killer, what do you do with your 50meg connection, email and general surfing ?

Kymmy

04-09-2009, 09:05

Shame Ofcom didnt put a limit on the max size that was allowed to be posted in one message, like 3MB or something, not like these 51M newsletters ROFL. I know that would only help stop people in the UK uploading files, but would be a nice start!

Ofcom?? what has ofcom got to do with servers that are situated all the way round the world?

Though it wouldn't have done any good.

A bit of history: Newsgroups were originally brought in to share text based postings amongst many people, when peole started using them for files there was two issues.. 1# the file has to be converted into text and 2# a text file is extremely limited in size, so large binary files although they show up as 50-100mb files are actually made up of lots and lots of little text pieces that your newsreader sorts back into one file. Hence a size limit is useless as the files are actually smaller then the 3Mb you quoted.

beanie

04-09-2009, 09:08

So tell us Mr. self righteous file swapping killer, what do you do with your 50meg connection, email and general surfing ?

Im a website developer that runs and looks after servers :)

bopdude

04-09-2009, 09:10

Im a website developer that runs and looks after servers :)

So why get so rattled about something you know very little about ?

Raistlin

04-09-2009, 09:13

So why get so rattled about something you know very little about ?

Be fair, the OP's done 3/4 hours of research.....

zing_deleted

04-09-2009, 09:13

I'm trying to figure out ways to say 'Get a life' without being rude. Sadly none come to mind so I won't :)

beanie VM don't host the content it's hosted by a 3rd party called Highwinds. In any event the content is mirrored across several different servers throughout the world.

Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenetfor more information on how it actually works.

In the interim don't worry yourself. Bizarrely enough VM, and everyone else connected with the copyright and ISP World, are very aware of the >1TB a day of warez, porn, movies, etc that are on Usenet.

---------- Post added at 09:00 ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 ----------

In other news also, as per the link I supplied it's not file sharing, people don't share the content they download from Usenet back to the community making it perfect for those somewhat sad people who just sit there collecting DVDs they are never going to watch just because they can.

that is not actually true in some cases. Content for example older game rips are reshared sometimes years after the original scene release. For example there are various Deviance game releases available and Deviance disbanded ages ago. There is a hell of a lot of re upped content if it was all new and only ever upped once by the cracker/hacker/ripper then usenet would be a quieter easier to trawl though place :)

beanie

04-09-2009, 09:14

Ofcom?? what has ofcom got to do with servers that are situated all the way round the world?

Though it wouldn't have done any good.

A bit of history: Newsgroups were originally brought in to share text based postings amongst many people, when peole started using them for files there was two issues.. 1# the file has to be converted into text and 2# a text file is extremely limited in size, so large binary files although they show up as 50-100mb files are actually made up of lots and lots of little text pieces that your newsreader sorts back into one file. Hence a size limit is useless as the files are actually smaller then the 3Mb you quoted.

I was looking at a newsgroup like the one in the screenshot attached. Are they not 51Mb files then? It just looked like they were.

I thought if any governing body was to make regulations about uploading to news groups in the UK it would be Ofcom? Am I wrong?

zing_deleted

04-09-2009, 09:15

seeing as you are against binary newsgroups you seem to be managing to download copyrighted material or is that someone elses screenie?

Ignitionnet

04-09-2009, 09:17

I was looking at a newsgroup like the one in the screenshot attached. Are they not 51Mb files then? It just looked like they were.

I thought if any governing body was to make regulations about uploading to news groups in the UK it would be Ofcom? Am I wrong?

Given that the Highwinds server that news.vm is is in Amsterdam, as are Astranews, Giganews, etc, etc what do you think? Uploading to news groups is governed by RFCs, not Ofcom.

Those 51MB files aren't carried on Usenet as 51MB files - I would suggest you ask for a refund on the 3 - 4 hours of life you spent researching.

---------- Post added at 09:17 ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 ----------

that is not actually true in some cases. Content for example older game rips are reshared sometimes years after the original scene release. For example there are various Deviance game releases available and Deviance disbanded ages ago. There is a hell of a lot of re upped content if it was all new and only ever upped once by the cracker/hacker/ripper then usenet would be a quieter easier to trawl though place :)

The real Deviance disbanded years ago though another incarnation appeared.

I don't really consider the reposts as being file sharing, plus upload speeds in the UK suck so hard we're not likely to be reposting multi-GB archives anyway. The Dutch are the experts for those :D

EDIT: Also watch your terminology smart arse, Deviance weren't a rip group they were an ISO group :p:

beanie

04-09-2009, 09:17

seeing as you are against binary newsgroups you seem to be managing to download copyrighted material or is that someone elses screenie?

I didnt download anything lol

zing_deleted

04-09-2009, 09:21

Given that the Highwinds server that news.vm is is in Amsterdam, as are Astranews, Giganews, etc, etc what do you think? Uploading to news groups is governed by RFCs, not Ofcom.

Those 51MB files aren't carried on Usenet as 51MB files - I would suggest you ask for a refund on the 3 - 4 hours of life you spent researching.

---------- Post added at 09:17 ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 ----------

The real Deviance disbanded years ago though another incarnation appeared.

I don't really consider the reposts as being file sharing, plus upload speeds in the UK suck so hard we're not likely to be reposting multi-GB archives anyway. The Dutch are the experts for those :D

EDIT: Also watch your terminology smart arse, Deviance weren't a rip group they were an ISO group :p:

Ok smarter arse however they were not a proper ISO group as the releases still needed to be cracked so the iso they released was useless as such lol lol

beanie

04-09-2009, 09:21

Given that the Highwinds server that news.vm is is in Amsterdam, as are Astranews, Giganews, etc, etc what do you think? Uploading to news groups is governed by RFCs, not Ofcom.

Those 51MB files aren't carried on Usenet as 51MB files - I would suggest you ask for a refund on the 3 - 4 hours of life you spent researching.

---------- Post added at 09:17 ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 ----------

The real Deviance disbanded years ago though another incarnation appeared.

I don't really consider the reposts as being file sharing, plus upload speeds in the UK suck so hard we're not likely to be reposting multi-GB archives anyway. The Dutch are the experts for those :D

EDIT: Also watch your terminology smart arse, Deviance weren't a rip group they were an ISO group :p:

I just took at 14 day trial to have a look round.

I didnt come to cause any sort of upset. I do understand how annoying it can be when someone comes and starts having a moan when they dont know what they are talking about! I agree, I know bugger all about newsgroups!

Kymmy

04-09-2009, 09:21

Oh well, time for me to unsubscribe.. it seems as though beanie hasn;t a clue as to how the newsgroups work or even where they're based and who has control over them.

So I'm be off before I pee myself laughing :D:D:D:D

zing_deleted

04-09-2009, 09:24

I just took at 14 day trial to have a look round.

I didnt come to cause any sort of upset. I do understand how annoying it can be when someone comes and starts having a moan when they dont know what they are talking about! I agree, I know bugger all about newsgroups!

I think VM know quite well how the newsgroups work and I also think having a greater binary choice is a selling point for them as not many ISPs in the UK offer free usenet access.

You took a 14 trial with who? VM newsgroups are free and you do not need a trial. The groups you see on your trial will be nothing to do with VM

bopdude

04-09-2009, 09:24

Oh well, time for me to unsubscribe..

On this note,

I just took at 14 day trial to have a look round.

In Dragon's Den stylee

I'm out ;)

beanie

04-09-2009, 09:27

I think VM know quite well how the newsgroups work and I also think having a greater binary choice is a selling point for them as not many ISPs in the UK offer free usenet access.

You took a 14 trial with who? VM newsgroups are free and you do not need a trial. The groups you see on your trial will be nothing to do with VM

It was a trial with Binverse, i was looking to see what the other newsgroups were like, and I think its safe to say they are far worse!

---------- Post added at 09:27 ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 ----------

I came here asking for advice because I thought it would be a good thing to keep that sort of material away from news groups. Well looks like people disagree!

zing_deleted

04-09-2009, 09:35

I do I am leech I am not proud but I am an honest leech (unless of course Sony ask me lol )

Ignitionnet

04-09-2009, 09:40

Ok smarter arse however they were not a proper ISO group as the releases still needed to be cracked so the iso they released was useless as such lol lol

I am pretty sure I remember Deviance released the required bin/cue ISO with cracked EXE, not much point in releasing just an ISO uncracked, that tends to lead to a lot of nukey nukey. Rips are where the game has been butchered to reduce its' size.

---------- Post added at 09:40 ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 ----------

I came here asking for advice because I thought it would be a good thing to keep that sort of material away from news groups. Well looks like people disagree!

Are you the digital version of Mary Whitehouse?

Trust me, people with a lot more time and money than you are working on keeping these things away from the groups with a lot of lobbying :)

Sirius

04-09-2009, 12:26

I do I am leech I am not proud but I am an honest leech (unless of course Sony ask me lol )

Yep and i am a leech also. In fact the word Bandwidth abuser comes to mind :LOL:

bigsinky

04-09-2009, 14:27

Shame Ofcom didnt put a limit on the max size that was allowed to be posted in one message, like 3MB or something, not like these 51M newsletters ROFL. I know that would only help stop people in the UK uploading files, but would be a nice start!

Those 50 meg file parts would just become 3 meg file parts. 17 times as many parts but the warez, pron, movies would still be there.

---------- Post added at 14:23 ---------- Previous post was at 14:21 ----------

When astraweb are doing 12months subs for $90. 20 SSL connections and unlimited download you can see the attraction.

on a side note i now see Giganews are doing 50 connections for $30. if i can max my 50Mbit connection out with 20 connection what is the benefit of 50 connections?

---------- Post added at 14:27 ---------- Previous post was at 14:23 ----------

So tell us Mr. self righteous file swapping killer, what do you do with your 50meg connection, email and general surfing ?

i use mine to download linux distros..........................honest guv ;)

zing_deleted

04-09-2009, 14:45

The only way giganews would become attractive again is if they dropped prices a lot or Astraweb goes bust

They seem to think that going over the year retention is a selling point well somehow I do not think it is a year is plenty 100 days was fine

Impz2002

04-09-2009, 20:37

easynews all the way for me , the web front-end is simply awesome. they went through a bad patch recently but are now back fighting fit as ever. i get 2.4mb/s from them all the time with 180days retention. i cannot ask for more !

Impz

Mick Fisher

04-09-2009, 20:43

Easynews is just a Highwinds reseller. :td:

Kymmy

04-09-2009, 20:54

Astraweb for me, cheap, has been reliable and I can max out my 10Mb on just 5 of the 20 connections... Also comes with SSL, compressed headers and currently on at least 380 days retention on all groups :D

homealone

05-09-2009, 00:21

It was a trial with Binverse, i was looking to see what the other newsgroups were like, and I think its safe to say they are far worse!

---------- Post added at 09:27 ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 ----------

I came here asking for advice because I thought it would be a good thing to keep that sort of material away from news groups. Well looks like people disagree!

I don't think we 'disagree', as such, but your look at the some of the other groups available on usenet will have shown you that VM aren't necessarily the 'worst' when it comes to the subset of available groups they actually carry.

The concept of an ISP being a 'common carrier' for the available groups implies they maintain a policy of 'non - interference', as I understand it.

Essentially filtering content, rather than mirroring it, implies responsibility for that content which ISP companies are not prepared to accept at present, & where some groups are not peered it is usually excused as a bandwidth/capacity issue, rather than 'censorship', per se ??

REM

05-09-2009, 01:27

Secure connections to news servers has to be dodgy. What legit reason could anyone have for that?

beanie

05-09-2009, 01:49

In my eyes it seems that a Newsgroup Service is a list of servers and topics chosen by the Newsgroup Server Owners. I know it's not the job of an ISP to police the internet, but what I dont understand is why list a newsgroup that is clearly out to cause trouble?

I agree about the question why use SSL on a newsgroup. People want this so that there data is securely transmitted onto a PUBLIC newsgroup lol. Looks like they have something to hide! I wonder why! The only sensible answer to the question would be to say that there Username and Password is not sent in plain text!

REM

05-09-2009, 01:58

The only sensible answer to the question would be to say that there Username and Password is not sent in plain text!

I never thought of that.

My first internet connection was 14kb/s dial up with Demon Internet. Their usenet servers at the time had some really unsavoury group descriptions.

I understand people's freedom to do what they want, but some of those sounded highly illegal and I often wondered how ISPs could hide behind the "common carrier" thing. Surely if it's pointed out to them they should remove it.

I don't believe any other "harmless" groups should not be carried though.

One of my favourite groups is a.b.e-book.technical. I've learnt a lot from there.

beanie

05-09-2009, 02:01

I never thought of that.

Someone could packet sniff the username and password and use there paid subscription or post using there identity! Seems abit far fetched but it is possible.

alferret

05-09-2009, 07:06

That was an interesting read LOL!

I can see the headlines now.

"One man's crusade to stop all usenet binary downloads ends when he wakes up next to horses head"

Really though, does it matter to you what people do with their bandwidth or as to whether or not their machines have on them illegal copyrighted software\content.

There must be far more interesting thing for you to do than worrying about what other people do, like knitting or flower arranging ;)

beanie

05-09-2009, 07:27

10 out of 10 with the headline!

Its better than this one: "ISPs Slam Government Anti Piracy Plans In Open Letter". It means they sent a letter rofl. You got to love the media.

zer0

06-09-2009, 14:48

beanie (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/members/62037.html), you realise you can get that same group on google groups (web version of usenet)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.es.hackers.software/topics?hl=en&lnk
do you propose VM should block google too?

beanie

06-09-2009, 15:01

No im not saying that at all. Was just wondering why they have it listed on VM's newsgroup servers. It's hardly making an effort to prevent illegal downloads, it's more like promoting it and making it easy.

bigsinky

07-09-2009, 07:11

Is this still going?

beanie

07-09-2009, 07:15

I think more threads like this will be popping up when ISP's are forced to disconnect users, torrent sites become unusable and people head to usenet for there downloads.

zing_deleted

07-09-2009, 10:22

how many disconnections do you expect? Unless things have changed its my understanding that proof has to be provided by a 3rd party to the isp before a strike is issued thats a lot of work

beanie

07-09-2009, 10:36

Kymmy

07-09-2009, 10:37

By them standards unsecured usenet would be perfectly acceptable also P2P with upload blocked..

beanie

07-09-2009, 10:41

By them standards unsecured usenet would be perfectly acceptable also P2P with upload blocked..

Although they kept using the word file sharing, they were talking about illegal downloaders.

zing_deleted

07-09-2009, 10:47

They scrapped that idea a while back. They are suggesting that ISP's will be required to disconnected people indefinitely for repeat file sharing and it will be enforced by ofcom.

On 4th September EIRCOM was forced to block access to the pirate bay by a court, again!

Looks like the only way not to get caught will be to use a VPN or Secure Usenet.

but how will ISPs know they are file sharing without a lot of work? packets of data will have to be sniffed analysed to determine if the contents are copyrighted or not. There are a lot of legal uses for P2P and BT afterall they are just data transfer protacols like HTTP is . You could just as easily be able to share a file over HTTP by creating an account on rapidfire as it is to set up a BT client in fact if anything its easier

beanie

07-09-2009, 10:50

but how will ISPs know they are file sharing without a lot of work? packets of data will have to be sniffed analysed to determine if the contents are copyrighted or not. There are a lot of legal uses for P2P and BT afterall they are just data transfer protacols like HTTP is . You could just as easily be able to share a file over HTTP by creating an account on rapidfire as it is to set up a BT client in fact if anything its easier

I guess they must detail some sort of detection method in the policy. I have heard many people talk about having had letters from there ISP's warning about illegal downloads detected, just they never followed them up.