View Full Version : VM capping OUTSIDE their stated hours!
And here is proof!
I'm on Size M after 10Mbit upgrade. See here: http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/internet/traffic.html
It quite clearly states there are upload limits only between 3pm - 8pm.
Knowing this, I started a large upload to an FTP site (completely legal before anyone comments - consisting of work I have done for a client) at 10pm. Within about an hour, I noticed the internet speed in general was slow. Checked with www.speedtest.net and sure enough I had been capped.
Here's a Munin graph to prove it. xl0 is the external interface in my FreeBSD based router, which is connected to the cable modem - therefore all traffic through this interface is internet data.
As you can quite clearly see, apart from a small upload earlier in the day, my bandwidth usage is nowhere near the limits, and I am not "taking the p**s" and running BitTorrent etc all day long.
This is disgusting. VM are going to get a roasting off me tomorrow. I WANT THE SERVICE I PAY FOR.
moaningmags
14-07-2009, 01:10
So call them, with the proof you have it will be raised as a fault.
Or report it in the newsgroups if you can't face calling.
reporting it over the phone will just get me bull from the Indians as to why I was capped.
Oddly enough I now seem to be getting full speeds again. It doesnt matter however, the cap was still tripped OUTSIDE of hours - most likely the cap has just been reset, but it still proves VM are capping out of stated hours!
moaningmags
14-07-2009, 01:21
If they are intentionally throttling out of hours, why has it been reset after 3 hours instead of 5? I don't think it proves anything until someone from VM says yes you were throttled and yes it was deliberate.
And they're going to admit it? Of course not...
They will give me some excuse as to how my PC must have a virus, my router must be configured incorrectly etc etc etc.
I have posted it here so that customers who suspect they have been capped out of hours now have PROOF that Virgin are doing it, knowingly...
I'm trying to play by the rules and VM are just trying to be cheapskates. It annoys me that they are doing 50Mbit packages when their infrastructure doesn't even have the capacity for 10Mbit users to use their connection fully!
Unless I'm reading things wrong, what part of the first graph shows you got capped?
I see the upload start at ~0.5mbit just after 10pm and then drop to ~0mbit just over 2 hours later.
The cap started where you see the drop off to 0mbit. I noticed the internet being unbearably slow, stopped the upload, and did a speed test. I got 2MBit/s download speed and concluded that I had been capped.
moaningmags
14-07-2009, 02:57
The throttled speed is 2.5Mb not 2Mb and an upload of 128Kb not 0.
Even if you live in the trial areas they don't have the times you have.
Wigan
Blackpool
Acton
Aldershot
Preston
OK, 2.5MBit/s then. Don't split hairs - the test isnt THAT accurate anyway.
It shows "0" because the graph isnt that accurate. There was still data flowing obviously, just at a tiny rate that doesnt show on that graph.
I'm in the Norwich NR5 area.
Doesn't saturating your upstream (with your FTP upload) normally result in the general internet speed feeling slow ?
And if you were capped, surely the upstream would plateau at 128kbs, not 512kbs as shown in your graph ?
Just a thought :angel:
My 50mb feels slow if i max out the upstream
Ignitionnet
14-07-2009, 09:44
Faults happen, STM can occasionally misfire like all software. No need to start 'roasting' anyone there, they aren't personally responsible for it.
Personally I'd suggest getting on with life rather than getting upset about a one-off software error. If it reoccurs persue them further.
And they're going to admit it? Of course not...
They will give me some excuse as to how my PC must have a virus, my router must be configured incorrectly etc etc etc.
I have posted it here so that customers who suspect they have been capped out of hours now have PROOF that Virgin are doing it, knowingly...
I'm trying to play by the rules and VM are just trying to be cheapskates. It annoys me that they are doing 50Mbit packages when their infrastructure doesn't even have the capacity for 10Mbit users to use their connection fully!
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. If you feel that something is wrong with your service report it. If you don't report it, how do you know that Virgin know about it? You don't know what (if any) systems they have to warn them of faults automatically.
Virgin may be totally unaware there is a problem. Therefore, they will *not* fix it.
If you report it, and they do not fix it, we can get our contacts to intervene. If, however, they can find no evidence that you have reported it to Virgin, they will not intervene.
Chris Edwards
15-07-2009, 12:59
OK, 2.5MBit/s then. Don't split hairs - the test isnt THAT accurate anyway.
It shows "0" because the graph isnt that accurate.
Your graph looks just about detailed enough to show the 128kbits/sec upstream traffic you would expect if capped. But it doesn't seem to show that. And sadly cuts off rather soon after the change.
Perhaps there was a non-VM problem specifically affecting your FTP site - causing the file-transfer to stall. Then again you said stuff in general was slow, so does sound VM-related.
Well today I am capped again and yet my graph for xl0 shows no usage to explain why.
At this rate I may as well just be paying for the 2Mbit service. I agree with the caps for those people taking the p**s but this is beyond a joke TBH.
And have you reported it to VM yet??
Yes. They told me I was capped for upload and claimed I was using all of my available upstream. My graphs don't concur. This is not a case of virus, wireless user stealing bandwidth etc because the graph monitors everything going through xl0 - the port connected to the cable modem. If it went through the cable modem, it went through xl0.
I have responded back and posted them a link to this thread, and demanded it be raised as a complaint. I bet they do nothing.
weesteev
15-07-2009, 23:33
Remember Jaycee, your MAC address registers your usage on the CMTS and thats what trips the limits, one of the first checks tech support should do in these instances is a "duplicate" check to see if the modem has been cloned. If its and older modem (pre Ambit 255 or epc2100) then a swap is highly reccomended.
This would have to be a fault if neither is the case, our 2nd line guys on the newsgroups are brilliant with this stuff so let them have a look at it. Your graphs prove your speed is being affected at specific times but it doesnt prove you are being STM'd, it could be high utilisation in your area when the STM stops, isnt that theoretical considering most high usage "abusers" will start their downlaods as soon as the STM time is over?
Make sure you report this on the newsgroups, complaining when your speed is affected on thsi forum maybe isnt the best way to get support but please let us know when you have an outcome. It will be interesting to see what the issue is.
If you would like me to have a look at the issue for you then please feel free to drop me a PM with your details.
HTH
:)
DigitalShadow
15-07-2009, 23:45
I agree with the caps for those people taking the p**s but this is beyond a joke TBH.
I don't agree with it at all, is watching a few iplayer streams taking the proverbial?
I think not
I don't agree with it at all, is watching a few iplayer streams taking the proverbial?
I think not
Personally I don't think VM should be allowed to sell 20Mbit or 50Mbit services until they can provide the lower tier of services without having to resort to traffic management, which is neccesary due to insufficient network capacity!
Personally I don't think VM should be allowed to sell 20Mbit or 50Mbit services until they can provide the lower tier of services without having to resort to traffic management, which is neccesary due to insufficient network capacity!
Personally I don't think customers should be allowed to have a internet connection till they've passed a basic test to prove that they understand how the technology works. Especially contention and why ISP purposely sell connections with it. Maybe then they wouldn't need STM.
I agree with the first bit of your statement but not the second. STM exists solely because of insufficient network capacity, which VM cannot afford to do anything about. Implementing 50Mbit is not solving that issue at all.
STM is needed to enforce and manage the available network capacity. There will never be enough capacity because its purposely oversold. (If they had enough capacity to deal with all the peaks in usage then no one would have a internet connection because it would cost to much.) If the end user accepted that and used the connection in such a way to not take more than their share then VM wouldn't need to put in measures to forcefully ensure that.
frogstamper
17-07-2009, 01:36
STM is needed to enforce and manage the available network capacity. There will never be enough capacity because its purposely oversold. (If they had enough capacity to deal with all the peaks in usage then no one would have a internet connection because it would cost to much.) If the end user accepted that and used the connection in such a way to not take more than their share then VM wouldn't need to put in measures to forcefully ensure that.
All this talk of over-useage and bandwidth hoggers is a red herring, if the network really cannot handle customers using the network as they see fit VM, and other ISP's, really should be stopped from advertising an "unlimited service".
It seems to me that VM are victims of their own success in that providing close to their advertised speeds more and more people are going to want the product, so from the customers view is it not unreasonable to want to be able to use that connection at the advertised speed?
The way I see it VM will in time have no choice but to sell their product in capped tiers, if you want to use your 20mb or 50mb connection more then you pay more, at least that way everybody, and by everybody I mean the non-techies like myself as well as the techies will know from the start what they are getting at the speed they payed for.
arnoldma
13-08-2009, 23:48
ok, i dont understand why akira is defending virgin so variously here, maybe he works for VM or maybe he just thinks basic understand of SMT makes him better than everyone else...
it's clear that VM is capping people outside of the peak hours stated on their website, it's now 11:45pm here in essex, and my 10mbit is capped down to about 2.5mbit, it has been for a long time now.
it almost seems like the capping is completely random at times which is why it's so frustrating i would understand if they are capping me at peak hours, but they are not anymore! ridicules... and yes, i will call them tomorrow, but i will be expecting some stupid Indian telling me stuff i already know and not solving the problem at hand at all.
so, jaycee, u r not the only one getting bum rapped by virgin! please let us know if you manage to get anywhere with this. i will too.
moaningmags
13-08-2009, 23:50
If you hit the limit at 8:59 pm you'll be restricted until 1:59am.
It's a 5 hour restriction from when it was imposed.
If you're still restricted after 2am then you can query it.
Thought i would add to this by saying
speedtest is kak!
and it defo aint proof
webcrawler2050
13-08-2009, 23:54
And here we are again, Eastender
Thought i would add to this by saying
speedtest is kak!
and it defo aint proof
Funny, I always get a 9Mbit reading out of it when not capped, and 2.5Mbit when capped. If i doubt it, I download an Ubuntu ISO image hosted on Virgin Media.
Caps should be dropped at 11PM regardless of when they started. Cisco IOS is powerful enough to do this, and the GSR's all have an internal clock, so it IS possible.
Cheaper to rip customers off though!
moaningmags
13-08-2009, 23:59
It depends where you are.
Most areas traffic management runs 4-9 and a 5 hour restriction once limit is hit.
Trial areas are released at 11pm and if you're in the trial area and not being released you need to let them know.
funny jaycee... i do the job on a daily basis and the amount of customers using it ... that are not getting correct results is terrible.
Every single customer i speak to ... who starts with "ah i did a speed test on speedtest.net and im not getting what im paying for"
The automatic reply is... ignore speedtest.
then i prove the real speed they are getting and its a big massive surprise.
I have had the broadband since it came out in Scotland and im going to be honest. the only time i don't get my true speed is when im Traffic Managed.
99% of the time wither its newsgroups or downloads from a decent website i always hit my 2.24 on 20mb or mabey even sometimes 2.3+
These sites were accurate as hell a year and a half + ago.... recently they are all KAK especially on a cable connection.
doing this job on a daily basis... you would think as a tech support agent you would get tons of slow speed calls... or customers not hitting their speed. You would be lucky if i get 2-3 a week and every single one of them that does turn out to be an "actual" problem either gets resolved or proven to be a Virgin Network Fault (if it is one).
arnoldma
14-08-2009, 00:07
hmmm, ok so its best if i just start downloading after 9pm, otherwise i will get the 5 hour capping no matter what...?
like jaycee said, such ******** that they cant just drop the capping after 11pm, guess it makes them more money this way.
moaningmags
14-08-2009, 00:09
I do all of my downloading when I get up in the morning or when I come home from work at 10pm.
webcrawler2050
14-08-2009, 00:11
hmmm, ok so its best if i just start downloading after 9pm, otherwise i will get the 5 hour capping no matter what...?
like jaycee said, such ******** that they cant just drop the capping after 11pm, guess it makes them more money this way.
Makes them more money? Are you utterly living in an ultimate world.. if anything, downloading loads costs VM money - you clearly have no concept of internet protocol
Oh and can you PLEASE, for the love of god. What that foul mouth of yours..
arnoldma
14-08-2009, 01:48
Makes them more money? Are you utterly living in an ultimate world.. if anything, downloading loads costs VM money - you clearly have no concept of internet protocol
Oh and can you PLEASE, for the love of god. What that foul mouth of yours..
lol, of course i know downloading lots costs them money, that's why i said capping the way VM does NOW, not cutting caps off at 11pm stops from people from downloading as much, thus making them money. internet protocol? haha, guess a bEng in internet security doesn't qualify me to post on a public forum anymore.
oh, and i will "what [sic] that foul mouth", if you stop being a condescending arrogant unhelpful waste of time. look those words up if you don't understand, i can't be bothered to explain everything to you.
webcrawler2050
14-08-2009, 02:12
oh, and i will "what [sic] that foul mouth", if you stop being a condescending arrogant unhelpful waste of time. look those words up if you don't understand, i can't be bothered to explain everything to you.
Simple typo - not too hard to understand?
A bEng in Internet means - nothing, just a bit of paper, if it's anything, like this course: http://www.city.ac.uk/study/courses/engineering-maths/multimedia-and-internet-systems-engineering-beng.html "You get a good understanding"
Whilst, we are on the paper subject, I think you will find my "pieces of paper" out smart yours, MCSA, MCP, N+, A+, MCSE, CCNA & finally RHCE oh and one other little thing, 8 years of "experience"
Maybe, if you didn't swear, on several occasions, you wouldn't get my back up.
Kellargh
14-08-2009, 12:00
Such drama...think how I feel...stuck with my BT adsl barely-reaching-2mb...*cry*
...
I also love being branded a liar, because I love to lie when customers come through reporting possible traffic management, and I blame it on their PC. YEP.
-.-"
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