Throttling of 50MB [Archive]

pazor

25-06-2009, 09:36

AbyssUnderground

25-06-2009, 10:04

Any changes usch as introducing STM to the 50Mbps tier is covered by their T&C's. You won't be able to get out of the contract because of STM being introduced. However they may let you downgrade back to a lower tier instead, but you won't be able to get out of the contract.

pazor

25-06-2009, 10:09

Ok thanks for your post, Im prob way ahead of myself here but i posted on a consumer rights forum and was advised because of the T&C's that i posted above i would. Since they would be making a "significant changes to the Services so the Services"
Where is the STM in the T&C's i didnt notice that part

AbyssUnderground

25-06-2009, 10:12

Chris

25-06-2009, 10:24

I'm pretty sure the T&C's also state they can limit your connection in a way they see fit should you be considered to be using the connection unfairly. This would easily cover the addition of STM as it has with all other tiers.

You're confusing two different issues. Traffic Management and acceptable use are not the same thing. Traffic Management is designed to encourage people who do heavy downloading to do it outside of peak hours, but it's still not a green light to abuse the service. You could hammer your connection every hour of the day/week/month/year except for the few evening peak hours that are monitored for STM and still find yourself on the end of a complaint from VM that you're unfairly hogging all the bandwidth.

STM is not already implemented on the 50meg service and I would be very surprised indeed if its introduction were not viewed as a material change in the contract between VM and the customer.

However, there's another issue here - will they even introduce STM on 50 meg within the next 12 months? If the customer is not locked in to the first 12 months of a new contract with VM he can leave at any time, provided proper notice is given.

AbyssUnderground

25-06-2009, 10:36

You could hammer your connection every hour of the day/week/month/year except for the few evening peak hours that are monitored for STM and still find yourself on the end of a complaint from VM that you're unfairly hogging all the bandwidth.

I did this for 16 days earlier in the year, full speed solid day in day out, no letter.

STM is their way of enforcing the FUP when you think about it. I mean hell, look at my use for this month so far:

June 2009 (Incoming: 466013 MB / Outgoing: 29194 MB)

Thats way more than the average person surely, and I've had no letters despite doing even double that on occasions.

I do agree with what you say though, but I've never seen it happen in practice.

Back to the original issue... I've read on this forum several times that addition of STM is not classed as a contractual break, since they have get out clauses all over the place that would allow them to bring STM into force without breaking it the contract. Thats why so many people got [profanity] off at VM for introducing it (and introducing it quite silently too) only to find they can't even get out of the contract because of it.

pazor

25-06-2009, 12:20

Hopefully they wont throttle the 50mb in the near future and i will be able to get out of this after my 12 months are up. I think it is very bad that they would bring this into force after so many people have joined thinking there was no throttle on 50mb.

AbyssUnderground

25-06-2009, 12:31

There is no throttling simply so they are the fastest and the best in the country for a residential connection. If they had throttling when it was launched it would hurt them, but if they do it later on it won't be so bad.

one2escape

25-06-2009, 13:13

When I signed up to 50mb a couple of days ago I was told that it could be 'traffic managed' and asked if that was ok. This was part of the terms and conditions.

pazor

25-06-2009, 13:20

I wasnt asked that one2escape maybe they have been advised they have to ask that now so they can turn around and say you was asked.

one2escape

25-06-2009, 15:11

What I meant to add was maybe it has just been added to it now.

Peter_

25-06-2009, 16:47

The is no STM / Throttling on 50Mb at this time and I should know.

Download Failed (1) (http://www.smileyshut.com/Smileys/Smiley-Huts-Free-Stuff-Smileys.html)

one2escape

26-06-2009, 10:05

The is no STM / Throttling on 50Mb at this time and I should know.

Download Failed (1) (http://www.smileyshut.com/Smileys/Smiley-Huts-Free-Stuff-Smileys.html)

Do you have to mention that you could do it when ordering now?

zing_deleted

26-06-2009, 10:12

The is no STM / Throttling on 50Mb at this time and I should know.

Download Failed (1) (http://www.smileyshut.com/Smileys/Smiley-Huts-Free-Stuff-Smileys.html)

Would you know if they were planning on implementing it in the near or far future for that matter? are staff kept informed on all issues of this ilk?

I notice they have added XXL to the Traffic management page it wasnt there last time I looked. I do accept this could just be to show there is no management on ti

Kymmy

26-06-2009, 10:18

The 50Mb ordering page specifies in the small print

Traffic Management operates from 4pm to 9pm and 10am to 3pm to ensure a consistent user experience.

So even if they don't implement it it is still in the small print ;)

---------- Post added at 10:17 ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 ----------

Also B5i on the Cable T&C's page specifies

We reserve the right to monitor and control data volume and/or types of traffic transmitted via the interactive services on your Virgin TV and/or Internet access. In the event that you exceed any usage allowance applicable to your Internet access or your use does not comply with the 'acceptable use policy' which you can read on the Virgin Media Ltd website, we reserve the right (at our sole discretion) to reduce, suspend or terminate your Internet access. During any time of reduction or suspension, you will remain liable for the payment of your original level of Internet access charge. We also reserve the right (at our sole discretion) to re-grade your Internet access to a different speed and/or usage allowance at the appropriate charge. If we make such changes we will notify you as soon as possible.

---------- Post added at 10:18 ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 ----------

I notice they have added XXL to the Traffic management page it wasnt there last time I looked. I do accept this could just be to show there is no management on ti

I think it's been on there since just before the last STM change (April I think)

pazor

26-06-2009, 11:01

What gets me is they advertise the 50mb service as having no throtling. For them to just change the service is underhand. What other company offers somthing and then when you have signed up changes the service you orginal got.
But as said it may not happen until more people join the 50mb.

AbyssUnderground

26-06-2009, 11:17

I honestly don't think they'll get away with it this time. Going by the current STM trends if they do introduce STM the throttle will most likely be 10-15Mbps. While this is still fairly fast, you're paying for 50Mbps not 10-15... I still don't get how they get away with it now really...

I doubt they will put STM onto 50Mbps until the package has been out at least a year, since that wouldn't be fair and too many people would likely leave. After all you pay a premium for 50Mbps for a reason, you'd expect to get it when you need it.

Dirtymurt

26-06-2009, 20:23

The is no STM / Throttling on 50Mb at this time and I should know.

http://www.smileyshut.com/smileys/new/Hi_Look.gif (http://www.smileyshut.com/Smileys/Smiley-Huts-Free-Stuff-Smileys.html)

please explain why my usenet drops from 50mb to about 5mb after approx 10 mins of downloading at full speed. I suppose it's my 'set up'

Peter_

26-06-2009, 20:31

please explain why my usenet drops from 50mb to about 5mb after approx 10 mins of downloading at full speed. I suppose it's my 'set up'

You would have to call 50Mb support for answers and best time is probably after 0800 tomorrow morning.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
50Mb support line number.

0800 052 0431

Do not call if not 50Mb as you will be asked to hang up as the is no facility to transfer you to Broadband Support.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jonessie

26-06-2009, 22:06

Hi all.
Thought I would make a post for myself re the Throttling of broadband,
At the moment the 50mb broadband has no throttling that’s the reason I upgraded from 20mb,
I have the feeling this will change in the future my question is would I be able to cancel my contract as I would no longer be getting the service I signed up for.

I have taken the below from VM T&C's which I think cover my concern if they change it seems I will be able to cancel, Can anyone confirm if this is correct

we make significant changes to the Services so the Services you are entitled to receive in return for the charges you pay are significantly altered or reduced; or
we and/or Virgin Media Payments make significant changes to these Terms and Conditions.

I do believe at the moment there is a limitation on 50MB but only at peak times from 18:00 I have been informed by VM this is not permanent and will be removed, here is an example 400MB file to download within peak times would take you at least 2hrs to download. Download the same file at 07:00 in the morning at it goes through at 5.40mbps... So yeah there is a throttle at the moment but again it's not permanent.

Peter_

26-06-2009, 22:09

I do believe at the moment there is a limitation on 50MB but only at peak times from 18:00 I have been informed by VM this is not permanent and will be removed, here is an example 400MB file to download within peak times would take you at least 2hrs to download. Download the same file at 07:00 in the morning at it goes through at 5.40mbps... So yeah there is a throttle at the moment but again it's not permanent.
Informed by who?

I am a 50Mb agent and I am unaware of any throttling and if the was any it would be posted on every single UK Internet forum by now with multiple posts.

Jonessie

26-06-2009, 22:21

By the engineer when he installed the modem but he said it was bol**ks I get a sh*t connection during the evening, in fact it's so sh*t I cannot download anything. My PWR levels are fine UPS and DWNS are OK there is nothing in the event logs to suggest there is a problem but the download speeds during the evening are utter rubbish.

Here is an example. I purchased a new soundcard and installed it and downloaded the driver updates which was 300mb this was about 20:00 in the evening and it said it would take 2hrs : 48 mins to download. I thought bol**ks to this so I left it until this morning and downloaded the same files again and it bombed through and took no less that 3 minutes. Know something is amiss here.

Peter_

26-06-2009, 22:25

By the engineer when he installed the modem but he said it was bol**ks I get a sh*t connection during the evening, in fact it's so sh*t I cannot download anything. My PWR levels are fine UPS and DWNS are OK there is nothing in the event logs to suggest there is a problem but the download speeds during the evening are utter rubbish.
The is no STM on 50Mb at the present time but that does not mean they will not implement it at some time in the future.

We as first line agents would have to know of any STM on 50Mb so we could run checks correctly as otherwise it would be like having one hand tied behind your back, and I will tell it as it is on a call if a customer is STMed.

AbyssUnderground

26-06-2009, 22:35

Just because you have 50Mbps it does not mean the other end can provide it.

What if the other end has just a 10Mbps connection to the internet? Yes, some servers do still have just 10Mbps, especially in the US where bandwidth is often more restricted from the dedicated servers you can buy. That means you will get 1.2MB/s maximum, not the 6.2MB/s you "expect" on 50Mbps.

Have you tried the link in my signature? That's on a 100Mbps server and even has a bandwidth graph so you can check there is bandwidth available before you try.

There are LOTS of variables that can cause you not to get 50Mbps. The sooner people understand this the sooner all of these topics and crapping all over VM will stop. While some people do have genuine problems with their connection, some people just don't understand the way the internet works and the variables involved in getting such speeds.

Dirtymurt

27-06-2009, 15:44

The is no STM on 50Mb at the present time but that does not mean they will not implement it at some time in the future.

We as first line agents would have to know of any STM on 50Mb so we could run checks correctly as otherwise it would be like having one hand tied behind your back, and I will tell it as it is on a call if a customer is STMed.

maybe you are not informed of everything eh? you can't answer my issue

Peter_

27-06-2009, 16:15

maybe you are not informed of everything eh? you can't answer my issue
We as first line 50Mb agents have know what is happening with 50Mb and STM would something we would have to be aware of and they cannot hide it from the online tools we use.

So if they tried to impose it in secret and you called in over speeds and we ran the very first modem interrogation it would come up in QoS section that should read 530000 and 175000 as lower figures and we would then call 2nd line to find out whats going on.

But every slow call I have had has the normal QoS and the fault has been elsewhere.

Dirtymurt

27-06-2009, 18:37

so please explain to me why my speed starts at 50meg then after 10mins it drops to 5meg or lower. I have tried different server, different ports and different servers.

IT IS NOT MY HARDWARE, I know what I am doing. VM tell me there is no problem on my connection.

what then is going on? is priority to NNTP lower in my area?

AbyssUnderground

27-06-2009, 18:44

Dirtymurt, you're not the only one to experience this problem, so calm down a little. Whatever the problem is its probably being investigated by the 50meg technicians.

Here is my possible explanation:
I have a gigabit switch here, and its fairly cheap. Now, if I try to use 1Gbps on it, it works fine, for about 3 minutes, then it drops to around 60Mbps and stays there. If I stop for a few minutes and start again, I get gigabit, then it drops again. The trend remains the same every time. However if I restart instantly, the speed remains at 60Mbps. Why does it do this? The CPU of the switch can't cope, so to prevent overheating it slows the speed down. Its a cheap switch, so it uses cheap components. A more expensive switch would never do this.

Perhaps the same is happening with either the 50meg modems, or the headend providing 50meg.

Again, this is a possible cause, its unlikely to be the cause given the cost of the equipment but its entirely possible its the modems CPU not being able to cope and throttling back to a safe level.

diablo

30-06-2009, 17:32

I`ve been watching just about every 50MB issues thread on this forum recently and I have come to this conclusion....after MOLDOVA checking my modem stats and giving them the thumbs up I decided to ring the 50Mb help line.....I had already disconnected the netgear wireless router and just used the 50mb modem straight to my comp.....

I had just been downloading something from newsgroups Astraweb/Newsbin Pro.....and it had been going at around 47.8Mbps / 5.8MBps great I thought....5 mins later speed was 6.0Mbps / 837.5KBps and it stayed like that for the next hour or so......

Anyway the guy from Virgin said goto this website and download one of the images....

http://eeebuntu.virginmedia.com/Eeebuntu%201.0%20Editions/index.html

so I did......back upto full 50mb again....great......so i immediately stopped the transfer....swapped back on Newsbin Pro...restarted my download...and BAM.....back down to 6.0Mbps / 837.5KBps....

So are Virgin throttling ports or applications here....seems my only theory here.... everytime my speed goes tits up on newsgroups its always full speed from the above link.....

further tests from the virgin guy implicated there was NOTHING wrong with my connection.....( i just knew he would say that...!!!! )

Any views comments or similar issues......

feedback welcome....

jcm193

30-06-2009, 17:50

Try flushing your dns I did this after having a similar problem as yourself and it seemed to make a difference.

broadbandking

30-06-2009, 18:38

All these problems do point towards application throttling, however 20Mb had the same issues, teething problems are going to happen, now for the good part I can promise you at this moment in time there is no throttling or STM, I know this trust me it prob will be throttled but not for a while as the DOCSIS 3.0 is massive and isnt hitting peak.

diablo

30-06-2009, 20:00

Try flushing your dns I did this after having a similar problem as yourself and it seemed to make a difference.

done that....maxed out for 35mins or so....then down to 5.76Mbps...

I give up....im ready to chuck it in........im sick of it

jgrove

30-06-2009, 20:43

done that....maxed out for 35mins or so....then down to 5.76Mbps...

I give up....im ready to chuck it in........im sick of it

I have given up with the massive SNR problems i was having with the 50meg service, which i have been plagued with since i previewed it last year.

I now moved down to a 20meg service and all is fine.