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jerijayne7
08-06-2009, 22:55
Hi there, I don't know if any of you super helpful techi guys out there can help. I've been looking on the forum for a while now to see if I can find the answer to my problem but I am at my wits end with NTL continually fobbing me off and looking for more money!
I have recently moved home and moved my ntl service with me, but prior to the box being connected at my new address I received channels 1-5 in my livingroom and bedroom, but since my box has been connected by ntl (in the living room) I no longer receive channels 1-5 in my bedroom. I have contacted ntl and spoken to various advisor and techs who advise me that the only way I will receive the terestrial channels (1-5) is by installing an additional set top box in the bedroom, and paying for the privalage of doing so!!! As far as I was aware it is the right of every tv licence payer to receive the standard channels as this is what the 100 and odd pounds is for????
Before the set top box was connected the tv aerial feed came from a roof aerial which entered the livingroom via an old telewest box, with a tv/fm isolator modem, then to a two way splitter allowing me to receive a tv signal in both rooms. After connection the ntl engineer removed the old tv/fm isolator (which I still have) and connected a new isolator (Tratec TRIS-1002AEN) with only one out point. I have tried simply connecting the old isolator but this has proven unsuccessful, can anyone out there help me and advise what I am doing wrong or if I need another bit of kit to get a feed to both rooms.

Thanks for looking. :confused:

BenMcr
08-06-2009, 23:01
Any rights you may have to recieve services is through a terrestrial aerial, not through any other means.

So if you don't want to pay Virgin for an extra STB then you will have to arrange for a terrestrial aerial connection to your bedroom

Virgin do not support reception of TV services on anything other than their own STBs

Chris
08-06-2009, 23:05
... having said that, this forum isn't owned by Virgin, so anyone here with the know how can advise jerijayne how to do the necessary wiring to receive terrestrial broadcasts. ;)

BenMcr
08-06-2009, 23:07
To be honest there is no point. Even IF they manage to hook it up again - it will stop working as soon as Virgin complete the analogue switch off (which for digital cable areas is looking like the end of the year)

The only long term solution is either the terrestrial aerial connection (with a Freeview STB) or an extra Virgin STB

Nedkelly
09-06-2009, 07:47
All of the analogue apart from those areas that can not get digi will be turned off by the end of the year .

Chris
09-06-2009, 10:53
You're both right, but I wasn't talking about trying to get analogue 1-5 out of the Virgin Cable, I was trying to point out that this forum isn't owned by Virgin, therefore in the context of the question that was asked it's a bit redundant to state that Virgin only supports TV received on its own STBs.

What jerijayne needs is some advice on how to route and connect aerial cable from the rooftop direct to the TV in the bedroom. That's nothing to do with Virgin, and anyone here with the relevant know-how can help.

The Installer
10-06-2009, 00:54
Well the question is, did the OP have a terrestrial aerial to begin with or were they just using the cable feed for channels 1-5 ?

I would suspect the later as it has stopped working so the OP needs to get a roof top aerial connected to the TV in the bedroom and not mess about with trying to connect the TV in the bedroom to the Virgin box on the wall.

As for having a right to watch tv as a license fee payer, i think if you read the small print on your license you'll find that you are not guaranteed to get a reception whether you pay or not. Having the correct equipment is down to you and no one else. Virgin will not come and connect your bedroom tv up unless you pay for a second STB in there regardless of whether you used to have a feed in there from their box before or not.

Sorry ... :rolleyes:

jerijayne7
10-06-2009, 18:15
Thanks to everyone for your advice. It looks as though if I don't want to pay for the extra digi box it's a roof aerial and a freeview box - although it would help if I could receive a signal for freeview, I'm told not until 2011, bummer! :rolleyes:
If there is anyone else that can offer any additional information this will be greatly received. Also anyone know exactly the components I need to install roof aerial, or is that a silly question - some cable and a an aerial? :blush:

Chris
10-06-2009, 19:53
I wouldn't set about trying to install an external roof aerial by yourself unless you're very handy and confident working at height. You need to get an installer in, and he will bring all the correct bits and pieces with him to do the job.

However, if you're going to pay someone to do a professional installation, and you would like to have digital TV in the bedroom, you would be far better off getting a Freesat dish installed than a normal aerial. Freesat offers a similar range of channels to Freeview and you can already receive it across the entire country. You can buy a Freesat box for about £50, and you can arrange for the dish to be supplied and installed at the same place you buy the box (Currys, Comet, John Lewis, etc). Supply and installation of a Freesat dish should cost you about the same as supply and installation of a terrestrial aerial.

Lots of info about Freesat here: www.freesat.co.uk

m419
10-06-2009, 19:58
Any rights you may have to recieve services is through a terrestrial aerial, not through any other means.

So if you don't want to pay Virgin for an extra STB then you will have to arrange for a terrestrial aerial connection to your bedroom

Virgin do not support reception of TV services on anything other than their own STBs

Its only about an extra fiver a month on the XL package for an additional box!

BenMcr
10-06-2009, 20:25
It's £9.50 a month for an extra cable STB unless you have a V+ when it's £5 a month

Chris
10-06-2009, 20:27
... which, over about 18 months, is the same as buying a Freesat box and having it professionally installed. And the Freesat box will remain her property and continue working even if she later decides to cancel her service from VM.

Isn't there also an installation charge for the tech to come out and put in a second box?

m419
10-06-2009, 20:31
Freesat,you only get Free to view channels,not good when you want to watch a movie from Filmflex in bed! LOL

Chris
10-06-2009, 20:36
Very true, although you could rig up a video sender or else make do with a good old fashioned video or DVD recorder if it's after bedtime and no-one else is using the main box downstairs.

That's a bit moot though, because the OP has already stated that she will be satisfied with only free digital channels in her bedroom. Under these circumstances wouldn't you agree that a Freesat installation is a better option than paying basically the same price for a properly-fitted terrestrial aerial that will only receive the five analogue channels in her area?

AndyCambs
10-06-2009, 21:28
... which, over about 18 months, is the same as buying a Freesat box and having it professionally installed. And the Freesat box will remain her property and continue working even if she later decides to cancel her service from VM.

Isn't there also an installation charge for the tech to come out and put in a second box?

And I did read that ITV2/3/4 were coming off Freeview and Freesat, didn't I?

Chris
10-06-2009, 21:36
And I did read that ITV2/3/4 were coming off Freeview and Freesat, didn't I?

No, you read that ITV is thinking about it: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1190331/ITV-talks-Freeview-channels-BSkyB--forcing-viewers-pay-watching.html

Suicide, if they go ahead with it, IMO. But let's not stray from the topic. The OP has stated that she is happy to receive only free channels in her bedroom. That still leaves a Freesat dish a better option than a terrestrial aerial that will cost the same to install as a Freesat dish but will only deliver the five analogue terrestrial channels until her local digital switchover sometime in 2011.

BenMcr
10-06-2009, 22:49
but will only deliver the five analogue terrestrial channels until her local digital switchover sometime in 2011.
That's not right. As long as you have a Freeview STB you will get more than just 1-5

Chris
10-06-2009, 22:59
That's not right. As long as you have a Freeview STB you will get more than just 1-5

Ben, please try to keep up! The OP has already stated that there are no Freeview transmissions in her local area. Ergo, the only ones she will get are analogue 1-5. ;)

BenMcr
10-06-2009, 23:03
Sorry - I shall go stand in the corner for a bit then

m419
10-06-2009, 23:12
Well in that case the best thing to do is to have Virgin TV XL and have an additional box on the account which will cost around £9. Alternatively have a V+ box and a standard set top box as the additional one which will cost an extra £5 per month.

That way you will have all the benefits of the main set top box such as all the channels,TV on demand and all the basic 1 to 5 channels.

Chris
10-06-2009, 23:51
Is there an installation charge for that?

BenMcr
10-06-2009, 23:59
£30

AndyCambs
11-06-2009, 00:58
But at least with another STB upstairs you can find equal amounts of nothing to watch upstairs, whilst someone is watching nothing in particular downstairs... :D

Chris
11-06-2009, 01:19
£30

That puts the total cost for 12 months at about £150, increasing by £10 a month indefinitely as long as the second box is active. That's a lot of money for a spare TV. I still think a one-off payment for a Freesat installation is better value, especially as the dish will be there and useable for the living room as well, should she ever decide to ditch VM but still wants free digital TV.

deathtrap3000
11-06-2009, 02:07
Freesat from Sky - £75 one off.
Includes full installation of sat dish and box and also 4 months of 2 channel mixes.

After the 4 months you have a sat dish and sky freesat. Can get them to install a quad lnb and get a normal freesat box the other tv.

jerijayne7
11-06-2009, 21:16
thanks guys, seems there are a couple of alternatives, although digital would seem to be the solution due to the termination of analogue in the near future. Does sky not tie you into a contract for 12-18months though, if I were to have them install a freesat? Are there any other ways to install a freesat, lejit of course! :scratch:

---------- Post added at 19:16 ---------- Previous post was at 18:52 ----------

I've just saw a freesat kit in argos for £50 (although I am sure there are cheaper alternatives out there on t'internet), includes dish, cable, signal finder etc etc, but obviously no receiver. I take it that this is something I could install myself and simply attach a freeview box to as the receiver (when freeview reaches my area that is)? If so does a dish have to be located on the external of the building or can it be installed in an attic space, as I am in a flat (saves me going onto the roof or climbing the outside of the building) :confused:

Chris
11-06-2009, 21:48
thanks guys, seems there are a couple of alternatives, although digital would seem to be the solution due to the termination of analogue in the near future. Does sky not tie you into a contract for 12-18months though, if I were to have them install a freesat? Are there any other ways to install a freesat, lejit of course! :scratch:

If you buy FSFS (Freesatfromsky) you are not tied into a contract. The advantage of having FSFS is that you can instantly upgrade it to a contract, with the extra channels, in future, if you want to. The disadvantages are first, Sky will constantly hassle you to upgrade it; and second, the box's electronic programme guide will still contain all the hundreds of channels you can't watch, which makes it a messy process when you go channel hopping. You spend more time seeing the blue screen with the phone number to call to upgrade than you do seeing channels you can actually watch.

I've just saw a freesat kit in argos for £50 (although I am sure there are cheaper alternatives out there on t'internet), includes dish, cable, signal finder etc etc, but obviously no receiver. I take it that this is something I could install myself and simply attach a freeview box to as the receiver (when freeview reaches my area that is)? If so does a dish have to be located on the external of the building or can it be installed in an attic space, as I am in a flat (saves me going onto the roof or climbing the outside of the building) :confused:

A satellite dish has to have a clear line-of-sight to the satellite itself, because the signal is far too weak to be received through a wall or through roof tiles. So the dish must be securely mounted on an external wall and have an unobstructed view of the part of the sky where the satellite is located - no trees or buildings in the way either.

And I do mean securely mounted - because the signal is weak the dish must be accurately aligned and it must stay aligned. No wobbling in the wind. I really wouldn't recommend a self-install kit unless you're very confident about what you're doing. Spend the extra 30-40 quid and have a professional supply and install the dish and cabling for you. He will bring his own signal finder as well. There's no point you wasting money on one when you would only use it once.

If you get a satellite dish installed, DO NOT buy a Freeview box to connect to it. It WILL NOT WORK! If you have a satellite dish, you need a FreeSAT box. You can tell if you're looking at a true Freesat box because it carries this logo:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/images/bank/logos/300freesat.jpg

I have both a Freesatfromsky box, and a proper Freesat box. I would choose the proper Freesat box any day of the week. The proper Freesat box has an electronic programme guide that only shows the channels I can actually watch; it has an ethernet connection that allows it to be connected to your home broadband for interactive services (these haven't launched yet, but are in development - including a version of BBC iPlayer), and the holiday flat where it's in use doesn't get bombarded with Sky marketing.

deathtrap3000
11-06-2009, 21:54
Freesat from Sky
http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.204-2953.aspx
£73.40 delivered to a Tesco store near you (with the direct facility).

Hom3r
11-06-2009, 21:57
One option is this

http://www.tvcatchup.com/channels.html

25 freeview channels streamed to your PC, but it will eat you bandwidth & allowance.

---------- Post added at 20:57 ---------- Previous post was at 20:56 ----------

Forgot to say there is a desktop version, but this is offline at the mo due to upgrading.

Chris
12-06-2009, 10:21
Freesat from Sky
http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.204-2953.aspx
£73.40 delivered to a Tesco store near you (with the direct facility).

That isn't even a FreesatfromSky deal. From that web page:

You’ll need your credit card or Direct Debit details to hand when you call, which allow you to order Pay Per View movies and events and continue to watch Sky TV at the end of your 4 months*.

Leave the rest to us. Our professional engineer will bring everything you need and get you set for the digital switchover."

*After 4 months you will continue to receive Sky TV for £20 a month. Let us know before then if you no longer want to receive Sky TV and you can continue watching the free channels.

As I've been saying, FSFS exists purely as a means of Sky getting its foot in your door. If you have no interest in subscription TV, then of all the free-to-air satellite receivers you can buy in the UK, a Sky one is by far the worst.

On the deal you linked to, you have to give them billing details from day one and then remember to cancel after 4 months, otherwise you end up paying them by default.

deathtrap3000
13-06-2009, 01:02
That isn't even a FreesatfromSky deal. From that web page:


Yeh it is freesat from sky.
Except you get 4 months of their premium channels included in the price.

Chris
13-06-2009, 01:11
No, it isn't. You have to sign up with your card details at the outset, and then cancel them after four months to avoid paying the monthly subscription. The only difference between this and a regular Sky deal is that you can cancel after four months instead of 12.

They even give it a different name - 'Pay once watch forever'. Go look at the FSFS homepage, Freesat from Sky and Pay Once, Watch Forever are listed side by side as different deals.

Freesat from Sky, which is the equivalent product to true Freesat, costs £146 for all equipment and installation, with no need to give them any billing details and no need to phone up after any period to cancel and avoid paying monthly charges. At that price and on those terms, FSFS and Freesat cost the same to install. And after that, with Freesat there's no marketing from Sky and no EPG cluttered with channels you don't want.

deathtrap3000
13-06-2009, 01:13
No, it isn't. You have to sign up with your card details at the outset, and then cancel them after four months to avoid paying the monthly subscription. The only difference between this and a regular Sky deal is that you can cancel after four months instead of 12.

They even give it a different name - 'Pay once watch forever'. Go look at the FSFS homepage, Freesat from Sky and Pay Once, Watch Forever are listed side by side as different deals.

Freesat from Sky, which is the equivalent product to true Freesat, costs £146 for all equipment and installation, with no need to give them any billing details and no need to phone up after any period to cancel and avoid paying monthly charges. At that price and on those terms, FSFS and Freesat cost the same to install. And after that, with Freesat there's no marketing from Sky and no EPG cluttered with channels you don't want.
Yeh that might be what it seems, but unless you have it (like I do) you wont know for sure.

Chris
13-06-2009, 01:15
I have both a Freesat from Sky and a true Freesat box. So I do know for sure. ;)

deathtrap3000
13-06-2009, 01:17
I have both a Freesat from Sky and a true Freesat box. So I do know for sure. ;)
So you dont have the pay once watch forever thing?

Chris
13-06-2009, 01:22
No - I had a regular ongoing subscription which I cancelled after about 3 years. The Sky box now operates in FreesatFromSky mode.

How did yours differ after you made the cancellation phone call after four months?

deathtrap3000
13-06-2009, 01:27
No - I had a regular ongoing subscription which I cancelled after about 3 years. The Sky box now operates in FreesatFromSky mode.

How did yours differ after you made the cancellation phone call after four months?
Presumably the same as yours. Still have the premium channels in the guide, but I cant watch them.

So you are now saying it is the same thing??

Chris
13-06-2009, 01:36
Yes and no ... If you buy a FreesatFromSky rig for £146, then you do not give them your billing details, you do not get any subscription channels at any time, you cannot order PPV movies/events, and at no stage will Sky ever start taking money from your bank account or credit card.

If you buy a Pay Once Watch Forever rig for £75, you have to give them your billing information. For four months, you get some subscription channels and you get access to PPV. After four months, you continue to get access to these things, and Sky starts taking £20 a month off you. Without you having to say or do a thing.

Up until this point, the two deals are different. One costs more up front, the other gives Sky your bank account details and permission to bill you after four months. In return Sky offers you a lower start-up charge. They do this because they hope you will forget to phone them and cancel your services after the four months.

If you cancel your billing details with Sky, at that point, your Pay Once Watch Forever set up becomes exactly the same as the Freesat From Sky set up.

---------- Post added at 00:36 ---------- Previous post was at 00:33 ----------

I should add that, having already had Sky both as a subscription service and in FSFS mode, when it came time to get digital TV for the holiday flat I still chose to buy and arrange installation of a proper Freesat service, rather than get another Sky box. In the long term, even getting a subsidised box on the POWF deal you took isn't worth the hassle of the EPG full of crap you can't even tune into.