View Full Version : Would You Leave VM if Phorm was Introduced?
Poll. Of course, if you wish to sign it, and make it into a petition, then by all means do.
Maybe thatll make them think twice. Greedy barstewards want the same amount of money from Subscribers as we pay now (after price rises also) and the money from Phorm.
Imagine your embarrasment, when your kid goes on the 'net and sees adverts for Sexually Orientated Content, simply because 'Someone' was browsing those sites!
before i vote i need to understand the pros and cons what exactly is involved and what would be affected.
can anyone help?
rogerdraig
08-04-2009, 01:08
before i vote i need to understand the pros and cons what exactly is involved and what would be affected.
can anyone help?
runs for cover
Tarantella
08-04-2009, 06:03
Working on the priciple that once you allow a third party access to the data generated from your ip you or VM will have no control over where that data goes and to what purposes it will be put to (anonymity can just as easily be removed as added) then I would give serious consideration to leaving VM.
before i vote i need to understand the pros and cons what exactly is involved and what would be affected.
can anyone help?
Look HERE (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=phorm)
---------- Post added at 06:43 ---------- Previous post was at 06:41 ----------
As for leaving virgin over Phorm, Definitely every service i have.
mentalis
08-04-2009, 07:56
I would consider leaving VM if Phorm was introduced, but what's to stop the ISP you move to introducing it, by which time you would be in a 12 month contract. The grass could actually be less green...
I would consider leaving VM if Phorm was introduced, but what's to stop the ISP you move to introducing it, by which time you would be in a 12 month contract. The grass could actually be less green...
There are ADSL providers out there that have stated they will NEVER use Phorm aka 121 media. http://www.aquiss.net/ are one of them.
I would have BT for my phone. Sky for my tv and a none phorm Adsl provider for my internet.
It would be better to understnd it more, however i couldn't leave because contract.
chickendippers
08-04-2009, 09:22
Would the introduction of phorm represent a change to the contract and therefore allow you to leave without penalty?
zing_deleted
08-04-2009, 09:24
No I would not leave no where better to go
Thing is with ISPs storing all the data for god knows however long now whats the difference? I have ads blocked on both IE and FF
broadbandking
08-04-2009, 09:31
Same here but what I don't get is that you can opt out of the system and here is many ways it can be added the headend or UBR's so I am not that worried as when you visit certain site you get ads for girls in wolvo which is by me nd how do they know I am near wolvo it pretty much the same isn't it
No I would not leave no where better to go
Thing is with ISPs storing all the data for god knows however long now whats the difference? I have ads blocked on both IE and FF
ISPs don't (AFAIK) store all the data you transfer. AFAIK, even the new laws only require a record of where you go and which IM/Email addresses you communicate with.
Phorm (by their own admission) will be storing everything transmitted via Port 80 for up to two weeks. OK, so they only store an anonymied digest of your browsing habits long term,the extra info is stored temporarily for "debugging" purposes.
Regardless of what security procedures/systems are in place, this means that the Phorm servers will be a massive honeypot for hackers.
Ad blocking may stop the ads, but we cannot be sure it will stop them storing the info.
Ad blocking may stop the ads, but we cannot be sure it will stop them storing the info.
It will not stop them seeing EVERY thing you do and i for one would not trust them to do as they say. Remember this is 121 media we are talking about.
ShadowTD
08-04-2009, 11:51
I'm outta here if Phorm shows up. Despite really liking my fast and reliable VM connection there's no way I'm going to have those buggers nosing at my pr0n ;)
AbyssUnderground
08-04-2009, 12:23
No I would not leave no where better to go
Thing is with ISPs storing all the data for god knows however long now whats the difference? I have ads blocked on both IE and FF
Same with me, if I were to go ADSL I'd be lucky to get 3-4Mbps. Virgin will always be the best option for me, despite Phorm and STM...
I have a feeling everyone will eventually have Phorm whether you like it or not and there won't be anything we can do about it.
I'll do something switch off from any isp involved with scumware interception and selling your clicks and data.
Remember once its on the system you wont get it off so dont accept it ever on any isp that implements it, compare it to stm if you like (certain times of stm increased more so over years) then phormed isp's introduce it harvesting only the basics then over time all your data belongs to us.
You can be classed as people or sheeple i know which one i am, all you that accept it just think of all the lovely bandwith freed up for you :) with no stm you will be the winners wont you ;).
I certainly wont be leaving as the only alternative i have currently is a uber fast 1Mb ADSL ;)
If I was on vm anymore, I really wouldn't worry or care about Phorm, as nothing is a God-given right (anymore), especially when it comes to the internet - what have people got to hide exactly? :shrug:
I'd rather go for that 1mb adsl through a non phormed isp than a phormed one and just use it for gaming at least you would know when you were registering your new game your details or your familys personal info wasnt going around the world landing on highest bidders desk.
The downloaders would have there download details farmed off for some court appearance i suppose.
weesteev
08-04-2009, 13:29
Why do people constantly freak out about "adult content" adverts appearing through the Phorm/Webwise system when it has been stated on many occasions that adult content/alcohol/tobacco will not be able to be advertised through the system.
It may be best to understand what your slating before you actually strat slating it!
Personally, I dont care whether Phorm launches or not, I have nothing to hide and sites/content I dont want the family to access are blocked anyway. Phorm delivers adverts that are more suitable to the content you surf already, surealy thats only a good thing... weeding out the nonsense adverts we see that arent even related to the website we visit?
As a customer, I dotn mind if it launches, as a staff member I hope we do launch it as it equals more revenue for the company. And we all know what more money means for the company - More stuff for us customers!
Hoepfully :erm:
Milambar
08-04-2009, 13:37
I don't have anything to hide, but I object to it being forced onto me. Whatever happened to personal choice? Its not like I could choose to go to another ISP, VM's only competetor in this area is BT, who can only offer me 512kbps, because of my distance from the exchange.
Also, I run websites myself, and semi-depend on google adsense clicks (I get about £20 a month from the clicks) to help pay the hosting, which will dry up if Phorm start manipulating and replacing the google adverts with their own (I don't know if this is how it would work, they don't specify how the adverts will be delivered, if they will alter the content in transit to replace existing adverts, or if they will use some other method).
Thats why its pointless using this forum for polls as there is a virgin media best interest for 90% of the staffers.
You actually want everything you look at, download, fill in, play harvest off without your knowledge in the sake of advertising?.
Even if it was FREE 50mb connection id throw it in the gutter where it belongs.
Vm testing the waters again to bean count how much custom they would lose?.
Well go ahead and launch please one of the staffers tell someone high up we want it please.
I worry about your jobs at the same time its either an epic success or an epic flop, i wonder which i guess time will tell.
Also, I run websites myself, and semi-depend on google adsense clicks (I get about £20 a month from the clicks) to help pay the hosting, which will dry up if Phorm start manipulating and replacing the google adverts with their own.
This is a common misconception. My understanding of the Phorm system is that it can only replace ads on websites that have signed on to the programme. I believe they actually have to include some Javascript code to download the ads on each page.
After all, while they probably don't care about the little guy, they won't want to offend the big guys in the online world whos sites are paid for by GoogleAds. They wouldn't want to anger the owners of the large news sites (for instance) such as the New York Times.
weesteev
08-04-2009, 13:48
Thats why its pointless using this forum for polls as there is a virgin media best interest for 90% of the staffers.
You actually want everything you look at, download, fill in, play harvest off without your knowledge in the sake of advertising?.
Even if it was FREE 50mb connection id throw it in the gutter where it belongs.
Vm testing the waters again to bean count how much custom they would lose?.
Well go ahead and launch please one of the staffers tell someone high up we want it please.
I worry about your jobs at the same time its either an epic success or an epic flop, i wonder which i guess time will tell.
Bonglet, you are very mistaken. Its not in my interest to promote Phorm in any way. If i was paid for it then maybe, but your decription of "hysterical anti-phormer" appears to be correct. Why come up with statements like...
"Even if it was FREE 50mb connection id throw it in the gutter where it belongs"
When you know as well as I do that if VM gave free 50mb with Phorm, then every cable customer in the UK would take it! The anti Phorm brigade are very vocal but also a small minority. Maybe thats not a good thing, time will tell, but the only negatives I have heard about Phorm so far have been misinformed ramblings (Phorm stealing adsense revenue, linking to porn etc etc) about what the service will and wont do!
How about we all wait for BT to trial it in the open and see how the results go before we pass comment about Phorm/Webwise?
Thats what phorm want you to think i suppose stuart after all these guys are going for ALL of the google advertising revenue by putting it between you and google, why did they not just start of a competitor to google away from isp's and dpi kit?.
Phorm (aka 121 media hijack shysters) class themselves as sellers of personal data (in there very own company description).
So at the end of the day there after selling your personal and inpersonal data while also having the added bonus of advertising revenue.
As many others have said you can choose not to use google just use another, you can choose to block cookies clear history, but you cant block this at isp level everything will be retained for harvesting.
broadbandking
08-04-2009, 13:59
I don't really mind Phorm, as I have nothing to hide, however VM are going to be careful how they use this service as it can be added to the ISP network in many different ways, cookies is the worst way they can do it, plus they should make it a opt in system not a opt out system.
Bonglet, you are very mistaken. Its not in my interest to promote Phorm in any way. If i was paid for it then maybe, but your decription of "hysterical anti-phormer" appears to be correct. Why come up with statements like...
"Even if it was FREE 50mb connection id throw it in the gutter where it belongs"
When you know as well as I do that if VM gave free 50mb with Phorm, then every cable customer in the UK would take it! The anti Phorm brigade are very vocal but also a small minority. Maybe thats not a good thing, time will tell, but the only negatives I have heard about Phorm so far have been misinformed ramblings (Phorm stealing adsense revenue, linking to porn etc etc) about what the service will and wont do!
How about we all wait for BT to trial it in the open and see how the results go before we pass comment about Phorm/Webwise?
You know Bt and others have already trialed it *cough splutter* you can manipulate results to look favorable to any situation given the questions put.
I myself have no connection to any company, i might be vocal about phorm because i DETEST it the idea the practice the whole lot, ive seen what these shysters did in the past fixing people machines infected with 121 and gators spyware now there moving the same junk into isp's?.
Btw every customer wouldnt take 50mb for free if it came with phorm want to know how because i am a customer so scratch 1 off the list.
That very vocal but small minority (aka the clued up people) are the ones who have had past dealings with the various companies i mentioned or the ones that know where this is leading, once us people leave more bandwidth for all the rest so this will be good for the phormed isp's (reduced bills and no stm coming soon guys;)).
Thats what phorm want you to think i suppose stuart after all these guys are going for ALL of the google advertising revenue by putting it between you and google, why did they not just start of a competitor to google away from isp's and dpi kit?.
No. It's not. I am no fan of Phorm (quite the opposite), but the fact is that if they start replacing the ads of Google on sites, not only are they going to anger a much larger competitor (Google) who may or may not start legal action as a result, they will also anger the very people they need for the the system to work. The owners of large websites who could lose a lot of money thanks to a sudden downturn in revenue from Google.
As such, replacing ads from competing networks would not only risk legal action from those competitors, but they would do serious damage to their business plan by causing losses to the people they need to make the system profitable.
---------- Post added at 14:08 ---------- Previous post was at 14:06 ----------
I don't really mind Phorm, as I have nothing to hide,
I have nothing to hide, but I still object stongly to having this kind of profiling system imposed upon me, And, unless I can guarantee that any ISP I use will route my data away from the Phorm kit if I so desire, it is being imposed.
Mick Fisher
08-04-2009, 14:28
It's got nothing to do with having something to hide or not having something to hide or even about the adverts.
It's got everything to do with being forced to have all your internet activity routed through and scrutinised by DPI kit which is under the sole control of a SpyWare Company who uses Chinese Servers and Russian Programmers and who is completely and utterly unaccountable.
broadbandking
08-04-2009, 14:31
As it has been said there will be no customer that is forced to use the service.
---------- Post added at 14:31 ---------- Previous post was at 14:29 ----------
You know Bt and others have already trialed it *cough splutter* you can manipulate results to look favorable to any situation given the questions put.
I myself have no connection to any company, i might be vocal about phorm because i DETEST it the idea the practice the whole lot, ive seen what these shysters did in the past fixing people machines infected with 121 and gators spyware now there moving the same junk into isp's?.
Btw every customer wouldnt take 50mb for free if it came with phorm want to know how because i am a customer so scratch 1 off the list.
That very vocal but small minority (aka the clued up people) are the ones who have had past dealings with the various companies i mentioned or the ones that know where this is leading, once us people leave more bandwidth for all the rest so this will be good for the phormed isp's (reduced bills and no stm coming soon guys;)).
If BT gave false results that would spell MASSIVE trouble for them and as I am aware wouldn't that be illegal and misleading.
As it has been said there will be no customer that is forced to use the service.
Depends how you define "forced". It also depends how the system is implemented. *If* the ISP's network opts the users out by default, and *if* when the user opts out, their data is routed around (not through) the Phorm kit, then in my opinion the customer is not being forced,
Otherwise, they are.
broadbandking
08-04-2009, 14:50
Again tho how much different DPI kit would they have to use to change the routing of people who have opted out of the system aslong as long as your data isn't used then wants the issue there.
Can the DPI kit change the routing the customer information is sent and recieved?
Ntl, later to become re-branded VM took a giant step forward when it dispensed with the much loathed transparent caches.
It looks as though my UBR is now off of the STM trial which for three months devastated my 20 Meg service and caused many service complaints from me.
The Phorm debate raged for months, last year and proved to be a highly contentious issue with a resounding percentage decidedly anti. I was one of the anti's and will dump all services the instant Phorm is introduced.
I am anti the prospect of an ISP prying for profit especially as they are already well paid for the service. I also feel that performance will take a huge hit with another layer of complication within the system.
VM (then NTL) was always suffering problems with the caches and has proven to me recently that they cannot run the trial STM properly so what chance with something new over which they, by Phorm's admission, would have no control.
I will not instigate or allow any changes to my services which involve a contract because I have a strong feeling that they will drive me out through changes this year.
rogerdraig
08-04-2009, 14:59
just wait as soon as it happens and other parties find out ( if they dont already know ;) ) they will be sending in the court orders to gain the information in those dpi systems to use to chase the down loaders
if you think that wont happen you will be kicking yourselves later
i can see the argument now that they should be alowed to see already gathered information that may prove thier cases as the information is now not on a private computer and has already been agreed to be shared for some purposes and that the people who had agreed to this have also agreed they are not to dowload copyrighted material
makes the governments data holding law look tame in my eyes
Ignitionnet
08-04-2009, 15:08
There are other reasons for leaving Virgin ahead of Phorm. If people find my browsing interesting that's their prerogative, other things that are far more irritating.
No. Because I can't get BT well I can but at 2Mb + the cost of a phone line install
In my area my service is great
And we all know what more money means for the company - More stuff for us customers!
Hoepfully :erm:
:LOL:
You mean more money for share holders
---------- Post added at 15:36 ---------- Previous post was at 15:34 ----------
Depends how you define "forced". It also depends how the system is implemented. *If* the ISP's network opts the users out by default, and *if* when the user opts out, their data is routed around (not through) the Phorm kit, then in my opinion the customer is not being forced,
Otherwise, they are.
Come on VM cannot even get the STM to work correctly, How will this be any differant
VM cannot be trusted on this and certainly should NOT be looking at implementing it.
What gives VM the right to know how i use my internet connection and what gives them the right to charge me for that usage while making money off the back of that information.
As long as my connection works, I really dont care, I dont do anything on the net that I need to hide.
broadbandking
08-04-2009, 15:57
As long as my connection works, I really dont care, I dont do anything on the net that I need to hide.
Whilst reading the forum thread that type of post ain't going to get you far.
I understand people don't like phorm but VM provide the internet to you and they will make money off it if they can.
Tarantella
08-04-2009, 15:59
As long as my connection works, I really dont care, I dont do anything on the net that I need to hide.
How about bank and building society account details?
Milambar
08-04-2009, 16:27
Thats a good point. Although bank and building society details should be encrypted via SSL, I wonder if the SSL system would see the phorm system as a "man-in-the-middle" style attack, as it would be getting the data from phorms servers, and not the bank/building society direct.
It is a little concerning to see that an admin has nothing to hide when by privilege of position may have access to the entire membership details of this forum.
It is among many factors that concern users of all communal sites where large data bases are stored.
It would be bad enough if a keylogger was a problem but Phorm is, according to the mass of data I read, a site reader.
broadbandking
08-04-2009, 17:02
It is a little concerning to see that an admin has nothing to hide when by privilege of position may have access to the entire membership details of this forum.
It is among many factors that concern users of all communal sites where large data bases are stored.
It would be bad enough if a keylogger was a problem but Phorm is, according to the mass of data I read, a site reader.
What kind of personal information does this forum hold on you nothing mate, so cuz the admins have nothing to hide then why worry about that
Hopefully someone might come up with a program that can defeat Phorm just in case opting out is'nt an option.
There needs to be another option on this poll...
"No, as long as it is run via a network level opt-in"
I'd vote for that option.
What kind of personal information does this forum hold on you nothing mate, so cuz the admins have nothing to hide then why worry about that
After years of working spam filters to death I am careful with who gets any of my e-mail addresses. The sign on page contains a valid e-mail requirement which in my case is my name.
One of the arguments against Phorm was if it renders a page with a valid e-mail then their anonymous identifier has a match with an individual.
I ticked the box that allows an admin to e-mail me so presumably they can see it and if Phorm renders the page so can Phorm.
Of course it could be argued that Phorm will not do anything like data pharming but who knows where that technology could go with possible mission creep?
How about bank and building society account details?
Encrypted using SSL.
It is a little concerning to see that an admin has nothing to hide when by privilege of position may have access to the entire membership details of this forum.
Huh ? Its concerning that "an admin" has nothing to hide ? I think you got that the wrong way around, I would have thought you should be concerned if I did have things to hide - besides, what has anyone being an admin got to do with phorm anyway.
BTW, the membership is listed here ;
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/memberlist.html
Sir John Luke
08-04-2009, 19:11
BTW, the membership is listed here ;
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/memberlist.html
Don't think that includes e-mail addresses. Maybe, IF Phorm is introduced by any ISP, you could make the registration page SSL? (Apologies if it is already, BTW).
As long as my connection works, I really dont care, I dont do anything on the net that I need to hide.
Paul,
I was alluding to the point that privilege can give access to information that is entrusted and needs to be kept hidden. Certainly nothing personal.
Have VM announced the launch of Phorm? If so, is it opt in or opt out?
Somehow I get the feeling that this is going to be a re-run of the old Phorm saga, few facts.
But to be honest VM cable service has no competition in my area, ADSL is just TOO SLOW for me to consider using it, but if another provider came along to offer a Phorm free service on cable at a comptitive price, I just might go to them ( but will that ever happen, I doubt it)
Whatever you all think or say VM will implement Phorm/DPI as some stage, just like BT and Talk Talk.
I said so a loooooong time ago.
I also believe once VM, BT et al get it going and demonstrate how lucrative it can be, ALL ISPs will use it. :rolleyes:
fluffychick
08-04-2009, 21:35
Not an issue. I will soon be leaving their TV and phone service though. Freesat and Skype for me. Paying for TV and linerental is so last year.
If it ever happens I will just VPN through work to use the internet so I voted no.
Not really as it would mean getting a phoneline installed and getting a lesser service considering the distance from the nearest exchange.
Just use Firefox and install Adblock or any other anti phorm software.
Not really as it would mean getting a phoneline installed and getting a lesser service considering the distance from the nearest exchange.
Just use Firefox and install Adblock or any other anti phorm software.
That won't stop you being profiled and your clicks sold for profit though.
As I understand it, there is NO anti Phorm software solution. Also, there is unlikely to be. It's a parasitic hardware backdoor attack creaming off valuable information and monetising your data stream without any tangible benefit to you.
More relevant ads? Anyone who can work a search engine already gets as much info as they need. It's a superfluous way of someone else (KE and ISPs) making a buck off the back of the uninformed masses who aren't savvy enough to object. The word is "exploitation" I believe.
That won't stop you being profiled and your clicks sold for profit though.
As I understand it, there is NO anti Phorm software solution. Also, there is unlikely to be. It's a parasitic hardware backdoor attack creaming off valuable information and monetising your data stream without any tangible benefit to you.
More relevant ads? Anyone who can work a search engine already gets as much info as they need. It's a superfluous way of someone else (KE and ISPs) making a buck off the back of the uninformed masses who aren't savvy enough to object. The word is "exploitation" I believe.
As I said I would not move to another provider because the cost is prohibitive as I have no incoming BT line plus I am also to far to get a reasonable speed, so no way would I change and this is as a consumer not a member of staff.
DéjÃ* vu, anyway I guess its back in the news.
Yes I'll move, both TV and net access. I already have BT line. So it's not a huge problem and am well out of contract.
nutellajunkie
09-04-2009, 10:20
google keeps a nice history on browsing habits, and we all just love google..
Well, if its "phorm"'ed, then they better get back to giving us "unlimited". One or the other Virgin!
google keeps a nice history on browsing habits, and we all just love google..
Google is not perfect but it can be easily blocked by any number of NoScript type plugins and software. They also can't tie a specific browsing history to a specific user UNLESS you sign in to a Google service. This is why when you are signed out, Google Ads presents Ads based on what is on the current page, and when you sign in (to *any* google service), you get ads based on your browsing history.
*sloman*
09-04-2009, 10:31
If the money made from it went back in to the network so we could drop STM i would be for it.
If it just going in to share holders forget it
If the money made from it went back in to the network so we could drop STM i would be for it.
If it just going in to share holders forget it
I think you know the answer to that. :(
As long as there is an opt out (that by-passes the Phorm servers) then I'll be fine with that. However I will not be forced into using it by just having no choice. Then I would move with no hestitation.
Same goes for any other ISP.
Not really as it would mean getting a phoneline installed and getting a lesser service considering the distance from the nearest exchange.
Just use Firefox and install Adblock or any other anti phorm software.
it seems you and several readers dont yet? understand that the Deep Packet Inspection/Interception for profit kit that is Phorm/Webwise cant be bypassed in any way without an SSL 'end to end' type tunnel to a NON "man in the middle" ISP/end point, non DPI/phorm connection.
it seems my earlyer backup of the official BT DPI diagram placed in the public domain has misteriously disappeared from my old posts here at CF :mad: (get it while its available) so here it is again for the new readers to consider its implications.
to spell it out, you cant bypass it, or have your dataflow diverted from the DPI kit, it MUST intercept and process your dataflow to determin if you have an unlawful unauthorised 3rd party cookie UID. (User IDentifier) placed on your equipment/PC opting you out at least once per session.
Mick Fisher
09-04-2009, 12:57
Google provides first class services which, on the face of it, are free but which, in reality, provide Google to bombard you with Targeted Ads. You are in NO WAY forced into using Google if you object to there practises.
Phorm, on the other hand, stick their DPI Kit in the ISP's Exchange/Super HeadEnd where you can NO WAY avoid it. Phorm provide NO useful services or incentives and just TAKE, erm...Steal might be more appropriate, what they want.
You may be able to opt out of the Ads (probably just on a temporary basis) but there is no way to opt out of being scanned by their DPI Kit.
I have no objection to Ads, alright I lie, I hate them but recognise they are a necessary evil, the Objection is to COMPULSORY DPI scanning for no other reason than to line the pockets of ISP's and KE.
Uncle Peter
09-04-2009, 13:12
Absolutely off like a shot. It would be just the motivation I'd need to move to a business provider (not NTL on principle!) as most of my usage is work related anyway.
Not really as it would mean getting a phone line installed and getting a lesser service considering the distance from the nearest exchange.
Just use Firefox and install Adblock or any other anti form software.
And how will that stop a system that is sat in the isp and is monitoring every bit of data between you and the isp. If you don't understand how Phorm works then please look HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phorm)
And how will that stop a system that is sat in the isp and is monitoring every bit of data between you and the isp. If you don't understand how Phorm works then please look HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phorm)
if you get time Sirius perhaps you might stick those diagrams above up on that Wiki page so they dont go missing again :erm:
I have a feeling everyone will eventually have Phorm whether you like it or not and there won't be anything we can do about it.
That comment kinda sums up the British attitude to the Surveillance Society we have allowed to grow around us; the British are more closely watched and monitored than the Statsi / KGB / Nazis did on their populations. Even after we know this, we actually allow it proliferate only stopping to complain when a Google Car drives through our village.
I'm thankfull that my Grandparents didn't take the attitude of:
I have a feeling everyone will eventually be ruled by ze Germans whether you like it or not and there won't be anything we can do about it.
Where would we be?!
If Phorm does come in I would leave VM. I do not want my or my families surfing habits monitored so we can be targeted with things we don't want. How would you feel if someone was monitoring every newspaper, magazine or book you read? How about a TV company working out what TV channels you watched, just so they can send you adverts? People shouldn't accept this as it IS an invasion of privacy.
The only thing Goerge Orwell got wrong was the year.
if you get time Sirius perhaps you might stick those diagrams above up on that Wiki page so they dont go missing again :erm:
Will have a go
it seems you and several readers dont yet? understand that the Deep Packet Inspection/Interception for profit kit that is Phorm/Webwise cant be bypassed in any way without an SSL 'end to end' type tunnel to a NON "man in the middle" ISP/end point, non DPI/phorm connection.
As I have said I will not be changing ISP for a lesser service that will cost me money to have a BT phone line installed as part of said lesser package.
---------- Post added at 16:45 ---------- Previous post was at 16:45 ----------
And how will that stop a system that is sat in the isp and is monitoring every bit of data between you and the isp. If you don't understand how Phorm works then please look HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phorm)
Stabhappy
09-04-2009, 18:23
Phorm will mean I have to pay more money for a VPN encrypted tunnel. Hopefully, it's opt-out though.
AbyssUnderground
09-04-2009, 18:32
Phorm will mean I have to pay more money for a VPN encrypted tunnel. Hopefully, it's opt-out though.
If everything you do is legal, why bother? Or is it for privacy reasons?
I can do this easily anyway, my dedicated server in France will allow me to do this quite easily, then VM won't know what I'm doing with my connection at all. All data will be encrypted and go through the server.
Stabhappy
09-04-2009, 18:41
Privacy primarily (but not exclusively). I manage an online community and the last thing I want is their personal details being accessable because my ISP decides to make more money.
Sir John Luke
09-04-2009, 18:43
Some reading for anyone seriously interested in the issues
http://dpi.priv.gc.ca/index.php/essays/
I, like many others here, get a far better connection from cable than I ever could from an ADSL line. As far as I am concerned this would become irrelevant the second Phorm's kit comes anywhere near my connection.
I value my privacy more highly than I value a fast Internet connection. I'd take a private dial-up connection over a snooped cable line any day.
Ed.
I, like many others here, get a far better connection from cable than I ever could from an ADSL line. As far as I am concerned this would become irrelevant the second Phorm's kit comes anywhere near my connection.
I value my privacy more highly than I value a fast Internet connection. I'd take a private dial-up connection over a snooped cable line any day.
Ed.
My feelings exactly :clap:
i read in the news the other day about this....
you could always purchase the new Pirate Bay VPN service of all things ;)
http://ipredator.se/
although its not yet clear if it fully protects against the likes of DPI /Phorm type "man in the middle" Wire tapping interception.
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