View Full Version : STM Trial times changed
without informing us again.
Hi,
I'm in the wigan area and as far as I'm aware should be on the new stm trial
yet I've already been capped at around 250k/s it seems. This can't be right?
It looks like they have changed the times (but not updated the website) I
will pass this on to the trial team.
Our apologies for the confusion during these trials as the STM peirods will
chop and change regulary.
Hi Mark,
I think it may be a case that your UBR is not subject to the STM trial.
We're looking into this now and will let you know once we have some more
information for you.
STM trial time changes have not been confirmed. Title is speculative. Shock, horror & surprise ;)
Update
Wigan and Blackpool - http://www.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management-wigan-blackpool.php
Preston (2 trial areas) - http://www.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management-preston.php
I assume all other areas will therefore not be subject to any STM trial (thought there were more alongside Preston, Wigan and Blackpool).
I don't even understand it fully, but don't need to either!
Please not that Size: S and XXL customers are not affected. (their typo, not mine).
When copying from newsgroup posts can you please post all relevant information and not just snippets. Thanks.
New Traffic Managment pages are up at www.virginmedia.com/traffic
New Traffic Managment pages are up at www.virginmedia.com/traffic
Thanks Ben. it gets worse doesn't it.
chickendippers
03-04-2009, 17:11
Does anyone have a copy of the old STM table for reference?
Just looked at the traffic management and in my opinion the limits are too low the reductions too severe and time in sin bin far to long. Its appalling what these shisters are allowed to get away with. Why advertise how fast you can download HD content or the virtues of streaming this and that as it it advertised for. Virgin are nothing but lying theives.
Just looked at the traffic management and in my opinion the limits are too low the reductions too severe and time in sin bin far to long. Its appalling what these shisters are allowed to get away with. Why advertise how fast you can download HD content or the virtues of streaming this and that as it it advertised for. Virgin are nothing but lying theives.
They can get away with it under the label Trial.
does anyone know if these areas suffer from oversubscription anyway?
alferret
03-04-2009, 17:36
Seems fair to me :D
Uncle Peter
03-04-2009, 17:42
Or are VM trying to mitigate the risk of the 50Mb roll-out to their transit/peering connectivity at the expense of M/L/XL customers?
smells a tad fishy to me.
AppleSauce
03-04-2009, 17:46
This is getting beyond a joke now. They are pushing their luck more and more.
Stabhappy
03-04-2009, 17:51
Release at 1am? This officially means that it is worse and more restrictive than current STM.
They're pushing their luck. I certainly won't be giving them a good name if this happens. If only sky or BE in this area could get 10mb/s+
Release at 1am? This officially means that it is worse and more restrictive than current STM.
That 1am time is on ONE CTMS in Preston
The rest release at 11pm
Stabhappy
03-04-2009, 18:13
I know that its scope is miniature - that's besides the point, they're experimenting with the most ludacris limits.
total cr@p but what you expect from a shower of *****
I know that its scope is miniature - that's besides the point, they're experimenting with the most ludacris limits.
It's still 1 hour less than the current STM - where you can be managed to 2am
Robertus
03-04-2009, 18:32
Can't see any difference from what it was?
What is the difference?
AppleSauce
03-04-2009, 18:33
If this carries on they may as well turn into a limited ISP, like Zen is.
I'd hardly call it unlimited as of now, I'd class unlimited as download as much as you want, when you want.
Stabhappy
03-04-2009, 18:36
So in the rare circumstance that you need to download at 8pm and not 6 or 4pm, I get to save an hour. Or lose two. Or four.
Does anyone have a copy of the old STM table for reference?
The current STM hasn't been changed - the new STM tables are in the links at the bottom of the page
The current STM hasn't been changed - the new STM tables are in the links at the bottom of the page
Ben i have to admit that this stinks to high hell. This is taking STM to the extreme. They might has well just STM for 24 hours and to hell with it. The fine from the Asa will be less than they would have to pay to upgrade the network to give a good level of service without the STM.
The reality as i see it is that for those on that UBR they have just over half of the day on the level of service they pay for and for the rest of the day they are subsidising the lack of upgrades.
No wonder cloned modems are so prevalent. People are likely using them to get around the draconian traffic management.
keyholder
03-04-2009, 19:32
:O they have taken away the unlimited hour between 3pm & 4pm, Ohwell lol.
Er - there is no weekday daytime STM in any of the trial areas
Here are the only STM links I can find on the website.
The first one is Traffic management trial
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/internet/trafficTrial.html
The one is the new Traffic management page showing all 6 tiers
http://www.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management.php
They are very different.
That first link is no longer valid
The current one on the allyours site is:
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/internet/traffic.html
That first link is no longer valid
The current one on the allyours site is:
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/internet/traffic.html
An earlier poster asked for the comparison Ben so I posted the 2 together see below, should have done that in the first place.:D
Does anyone have a copy of the old STM table for reference?
KingDaveRa
03-04-2009, 22:57
Have to say, I can live with those limits.
I do have to wonder where Virgin get the numbers for the limits from though. I wonder if they're finger-in-the-air figures, best guesses, or based on collated data - doing the latter I would imagine could end up very subjective.
An earlier poster asked for the comparison Ben so I posted the 2 together see below, should have done that in the first place.:D
I know that - I already answered saying that the STM levels haven't been changed between the old page and the new.
But what he was after was this - the old table for the current STM:
Download Failed (1)
Here is the old table for the current STM:
http://www.virginmedia.com/images/traffic-management-121208.jpg
Yes that is what the new page replaced today so the is now 3 sets of figures to compare.
graf_von_anonym
04-04-2009, 00:24
I don't have the spreadsheet on this computer, I'll have to dig it out, but the initial trial actually increased the amount that you could download in a day assuming you could saturate your connection 24 hours a day. I'll run the numbers on the new trial this weekend.
One thing that struck me just there was that I have only just realised that Virgin are putting new trunk (or trunk equivalent) between the new hardware for 50Mb and the rest of the internet, as otherwise it would only be making the situation worse. I assume that since the UBR/CMTS model basically collates a whole series of connections into the big pipe that the next upgrade sequence will be more on those trunks. Obviously switching from 4 to 8 multiplexing doubles the amounts that can be threaded through, but I don't know how big those pipes are. Obviously their upstream is effecively trivial as a load, because, hell, the fibre has room for light in two directions. Indeed, I'm not even sure if that serves as a constraint at all on the network, or if it's the routing/bandwidth of each individual UBR that brings it in.
Any of you network types care to chime in?
this trafficmanagement lark is becoming to much, when will they upgrade the systems to beabel to cope with there over selling?
frogstamper
04-04-2009, 00:49
Don't forget folks with Virgin Media you get "Unlimited Downloads":D: forget the fact it will be at 25% of that superfast speed you pay for, apparently thats just being pedantic.
Have a look at the generous amount of bandwidth you can download at full speed on the new 2mb service!! its an eye-popping 100mb then your superfast bells and whistle VM-BB is cut back to 1mb...but only for 12 hours.
"TRULY UNLIMITED"
VM- "We don't like traffic jams"
Customer- "We don't like bullcrap"
http://www.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management.php
homealone
04-04-2009, 00:57
this trafficmanagement lark is becoming to much, when will they upgrade the systems to beabel to cope with there over selling?
they won't, it will always be a shared/contended system but downloading outside of the 'peak' times should help those people who actually want to get reasonable amounts of files.
- if you really want to download you will learn to do it 'off-peak' - if you just want to complain, then please don't - it consumes bandwidth that could be used more usefully by us downloaders ;)
they won't, it will always be a shared/contended system but downloading outside of the 'peak' times should help those people who actually want to get reasonable amounts of files.
- if you really want to download you will learn to do it 'off-peak' - if you just want to complain, then please don't - it consumes bandwidth that could be used more usefully by us downloaders ;)
Still must be something we can do to get this cut down? even if they redeuced the 75% cap to 50? or 25? why did they start 75%?
homealone
04-04-2009, 01:16
Still must be something we can do to get this cut down? even if they redeuced the 75% cap to 50? or 25? why did they start 75%?
if you don't trigger it, then you don't have to worry about that - downloading outside the peak times is a 'no brainer' & 'we' don't actually have to do anything apart from that - try it :erm:
i dont hit it any more.. but the fact is i shouldnt ahve to duck and dive around this...
frogstamper
04-04-2009, 01:25
if you don't trigger it, then you don't have to worry about that - downloading outside the peak times is a 'no brainer' & 'we' don't actually have to do anything apart from that - try it :erm:
But the question is how much longer will there be an off-peak time? since stm has come into being its gradually increased in time and duration, imo there will come a time in the not too distance future when there is 24 stm, simply because there is not enough room on the network because of VMs overselling.:shrug:
homealone
04-04-2009, 01:41
i dont hit it any more.. but the fact is i shouldnt ahve to duck and dive around this...
if you don't 'hit it' then you don't have to 'duck & dive' ??
---------- Post added at 01:41 ---------- Previous post was at 01:30 ----------
But the question is how much longer will there be an off-peak time? since stm has come into being its gradually increased in time and duration, imo there will come a time in the not too distance future when there is 24 stm, simply because there is not enough room on the network because of VMs overselling.:shrug:
when/if it happens will be the time to worry - speculating doesn't have any relevance, at the moment - how much are you downloading, just now, while you have the opportunity? For example I have 'got' everything I need tonight - stm was never an issue because I didn't start until after 9pm.
The 'question' is what can you do now - not what may be in the future - should you stop breathing, now, because one day you are going to die, anyway ???
i used to hit it. every day... as was on 10mb, quite easy to get 3gb as most games out now are easily in the 10gb.... but im on 20mb getting lower then 10mb speeds, just with the added bonus of 6gb caps to reach... tbh i didnt relise they where going to cracking down on those who actually use the internet... whats the point in having a 20mb speed with you can only use it fully for 13 hours, and within them 13 hours sleeping takes up roughtly 8 of them.. lol
frogstamper
04-04-2009, 01:57
if you don't 'hit it' then you don't have to 'duck & dive' ??
---------- Post added at 01:41 ---------- Previous post was at 01:30 ----------
when/if it happens will be the time to worry - speculating doesn't have any relevance, at the moment - how much are you downloading, just now, while you have the opportunity? For example I have 'got' everything I need tonight - stm was never an issue because I didn't start until after 9pm.
The 'question' is what can you do now - not what may be in the future - should you stop breathing, now, because one day you are going to die, anyway ???
Its fear of being ripped off;) at present the current stm doesn't affect me, as you say its possible to work around it, but as I said the way its going 24 hour stm will come. If you look at the new stm times in the current trail for 2mb its active for 12 hours should you exceed 100mb, that really is dire should you choose to stay on 2mb, hardly unlimited.
Also if we as VM customers just sit back quietly accepting these draconian measures without a peep it'll come even quicker, but there is a slim chance that by complaining about the ever longer stm times on forums such as CF and the continuing trickle of e-mails on the subject to VM towers they "might" just listen.;)
telfordcable
04-04-2009, 03:05
I had blasted and have a go at virgin media of why new traffic management won't be affect on the XXL 50Meg and they say there is no need for any STM on 50Meg for the time being, as I think virgin media are cheat try to get more customers to sign up and join up 50Meg because of non-stm but costy at £50 a month. They try to get more peoples to come off 2Meg (worse now on stm) and they are hope that many customers will move to 50Meg then STM will hit hard once everyone left 2Meg/10Meg and 20Meg.
Thank alots VM.
Uncle Peter
04-04-2009, 03:49
Has anyone ever received an email from VM to inform them that the STM thresholds have been varied?
IMO this is a change to your T's and C's. If your bank changed the terms and conditions of your account then they would inform you in writing. In VM's case it seems that you have to find out for yourself that the goalposts have been moved.
I see this "top 5%" language is still being used. If someone triggered STM during peak hours on Monday (because he/she is at work during the day and wants to go to bed at a reasonable hour) then downloaded sod all for the rest of the week that hardly puts them in the "top 5%" category or implies that they are a heavy downloader.
Has anyone ever received an email from VM to inform them that the STM thresholds have been varied?
The only emails i receive are bull going on about how good they are. I have NEVER received any email informing me of a change to my service EVER.
scu11y69
04-04-2009, 11:16
"TRULY UNLIMITED"
VM- "We don't like traffic jams"
Customer- "We don't like bullcrap"
http://www.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management.php[/QUOTE]
i agree the chart looks crap for every1 not on 50mb. quick every1 rush and sign up to 50mb so VM can again change the stm and hit the 50mb users this is there real plan its fairly obviouse
they say there is no need for any STM on 50Meg for the time being, as I think virgin media are cheat try to get more customers to sign up and join up 50Meg because of non-stm but costy at £50 a month. They try to get more peoples to come off 2Meg (worse now on stm) and they are hope that many customers will move to 50Meg then STM will hit hard once everyone left 2Meg/10Meg and 20Meg.
I think that is the intention. make everyone move to 50MB because we don't want to be STMd like crazy on all the other speeds. and when enough of us are on it with a possible 12/18 month contract to keep us on it, they then go and turn the STM on.
Berkett has said that once there is enough people on it there will be STM. so it does look that is the intention.
no doubt it will be buy there past record.
vermin speak with forked tongue.
No other company would get away with selling you a service then asking you not to use it when you please. seriously folks. This is beyond a joke.
Because thier is no competition with cable broadband they get away with this because they know lots of people dont want to change phone line in order to change broadband. I would change in a second if another cable provider was avalible. Virgin have ****ed me off for ages by offering "retention deals" and "new customer only" deals while us loyal customers have to bend over each month and take our payments.
The STM is unreasonable and made in the most confusing way possible. They indroduced it to deal with the "worst 5%" of customers, but its must affect a lot more than than now. Its a money saving measure that only virgin get the benefit of. They dont pass along the cost savings to us. Cable modems are becoming the worst value for money known to man.
The STM is unreasonable and made in the most confusing way possible. They indroduced it to deal with the "worst 5%" of customers, but its must affect a lot more than than now. Its a money saving measure that only virgin get the benefit of. They dont pass along the cost savings to us. Cable modems are becoming the worst value for money known to man.
It could be a lot more than 5% at any one time, and most probably is if you look at the time and amount it needs before you are STMd compared to how many customers thay have. but I was told that to be within the boundaries of OFCOM I think it was. that figure can't be any higher than 5%. they don't show proof of it so we and OFCOM just have to take their word for it.
it used to be 3% and changed to 5% later. you would think that it should have got higher since then as the STM time window has changed so more people should be caught by it.
idontpirate
05-04-2009, 11:40
Dear god why the hell do they advertise how fast you can download a HD film, when you are only able to download 2 before you get bummed by the STM. In my opinion it should only be limited to people who use the top 3-5% in that area and they would get max 2MB connection. This stops people who are genuinely trying to download content and not abusing the connection being punished. There are no hard limits on Sky so i dont see why there should be with Virgin. Its simple, just punish the people who are REALLY abusing the connection or dont oversubscribe without having the nessesary equipment and bandwidth.
It could be a lot more than 5% at any one time, and most probably is if you look at the time and amount it needs before you are STMd compared to how many customers thay have. but I was told that to be within the boundaries of OFCOM I think it was. that figure can't be any higher than 5%. they don't show proof of it so we and OFCOM just have to take their word for it.
it used to be 3% and changed to 5% later. you would think that it should have got higher since then as the STM time window has changed so more people should be caught by it.
it mite make for an interesting case if some one took em to county court and
demanded proof under the disclosure rules.
my guess is they would settel rather than hand paperwork over.:D
it used to be 3% and changed to 5% later. you would think that it should have got higher since then as the STM time window has changed so more people should be caught by it.
It has always been 5%
Here (http://web.archive.org/web/20070516073154/allyours.virginmedia.com/html/internet/traffic.html) is the link to Traffic management page put up in May 2007 - when STM was introduced
Will my download speed be affected?
Your speed won't be moderated unless you're in the top 5% of downloaders. Our boffins recently ran a trial to see how much our service was being affected. They discovered that, in certain areas, just 5% of customers were downloading such a large amount of content that it was affecting the service for other users in these areas
Dear god why the hell do they advertise how fast you can download a HD film, when you are only able to download 2 before you get bummed by the STM. In my opinion it should only be limited to people who use the top 3-5% in that area and they would get max 2MB connection. This stops people who are genuinely trying to download content and not abusing the connection being punished. There are no hard limits on Sky so i dont see why there should be with Virgin. Its simple, just punish the people who are REALLY abusing the connection or dont oversubscribe without having the necessary equipment and bandwidth.
Your kidding are you not ? You could not even download one without the STM kicking in. So effectively it is false advertising on Virgin Media's part. Perhaps they are just doing this to protect there TV revenue with all the different media services now online. Virgin media really don't want you to use your connection for what it is advertised for. 1.2GB limit from 4 to 9pm on my 10MB is ridiculousness. That is the exact time you want to be watching a film not 1 to 2 3 am in the morning. If they don't want me to use my connection for streaming media then they can give me there TV service for FREE. Yet I want to watch HD content but Virgin Media's offering is very very poor.
High Definition 1280 by 720 (maximum)Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound8 New releases - $4.99
Library titles - $3.99
6 Mbps: less than 1 minute
2 Mbps: about 2 hours
768 Kbps: about 8 hours
It has always been 5%
It hasn't. it was 5% then it went down to 3% and back up to 5%. I remember because we had a big discussion about it in the virgin newsgroups. the argument was that they put it back up to 5% to make it look more credible.
there was even talk about it on websites at the time.
Make it the fault of some mythical "3%" (was 5% to start with) who "abuse" the bandwidth, depriving the reasonable people who just want to check their e-mail, and let's blame "them", those selfish swines hogging the cable.
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/broadband-other-internet-issues/124152-legality-virgin-media-traffic.html
Your speed won't be moderated unless you're in the top 3% of users (uploaders and downloaders). Our boffins ran a trial to see how much our service was being affected. They discovered that, in certain areas, just 3% of customers were uploading and/or downloading such a large amount of content that it was affecting the service for other users in these areas.
http://web.archive.org/web/20071214212539/http://www.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management.php
It went from 5% to 3% to 5% from their boffin tests in the space of a month. and in nearly 2 years since they are saying it hasn't changed by 1% either way.:(
frogstamper
05-04-2009, 20:06
I can't believe that as regards the new "S" tier 2mb service where you are stm'd for 12 hours if you download a truly paltry 100mb will only affect 5% of customers.
I mean a few e-mails, a couple of videos on you-tube or the like and then you are classed by VM as a "heavy user", even by VMs standards that is laughable.
I can't believe that as regards the new "S" tier 2mb service where you are stm'd for 12 hours if you download a truly paltry 100mb will only affect 5% of customers.
I mean a few e-mails, a couple of videos on you-tube or the like and then you are classed by VM as a "heavy user", even by VMs standards that is laughable.
They will just have to re-write it all so that 2MB won't be part of them figures anymore. but I'd say there's only so long they can get away with saying that it's only 5% of people being affected. if it was 24hr STM they would still claim it's only 5% :)
I can't believe that as regards the new "S" tier 2mb service where you are stm'd for 12 hours if you download a truly paltry 100mb will only affect 5% of customers.
I mean a few e-mails, a couple of videos on you-tube or the like and then you are classed by VM as a "heavy user", even by VMs standards that is laughable.
The STM on S has nothing to do with being a heavy user. BB S is purposely designed to be a low usage tier. It is not for people who use Youtube or download music.
I'm fine with the trial times and limits as long as they keep "peak time" as ending at 9pm if they go with the 10pm option I'll be "annoyed".
broadbandking
05-04-2009, 22:26
I'm fine with the trial times and limits as long as they keep "peak time" as ending at 9pm if they go with the 10pm option I'll be "annoyed".
Its 1am mate on the trial
Any users hitting this amount during peak times (4pm till midnight) will have their broadband speed temporarily traffic managed
Everyone needs to forget about the 5% figure that VM keep mentioning as once you hit your allocated limit you will be traffic managed.
Everyone needs to forget about the 5% figure that VM keep mentioning as once you hit your allocated limit you will be traffic managed.
Not everyone downloads or does online gaming so the majority never get STMed.
Yes not everyone gets STMed, which is why I said "once you hit you allocated limit you will be traffic managed."
Yes not everyone gets STMed, which is why I said "once you hit you allocated limit you will be traffic managed."
I know but it still stands not everyone gets STMed and many have never been STMed at all, just clarifying things as your post is quite correct.
Its 1am mate on the trial
No 1am is when the throttle is released independent of when you hit the limit and start the 9hr duration on Preston version A (so if you hit it at 10pm you only get throttled for 3 hours). Like I said the "peak time" for version A is 3pm - 10pm for weekday downloads.
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