View Full Version : Virgin to launch 2Mb Size S
because they know that some might not want theirs upgraded to 10Mb.
so they'll be making all the 2Mb to 10Mb and charge £2 each and then bring out a 2Mb.
will you have to say you want to go back to 2Mb? and most importantly will it be classed as a new package and tie you to a fresh 12 month contract? :confused:
because they know that some might not want theirs upgraded to 10Mb.
so they'll be making all the 2Mb to 10Mb and charge £2 each and then bring out a 2Mb.
will you have to say you want to go back to 2Mb? and most importantly will it be classed as a new package and tie you to a fresh 12 month contract? :confused:
This will not be actively sold and will be used as a deal closer and all you will be able to do with it is browse and download email as the will be an STM of 0900 till 2100 7 days a week and when triggered will last for up to 12 hours, so not something you would downgrade to.
this will not be actively sold and will be used as a deal closer and all you will be able to do with it is browse and download email as the will be an stm of 0900 till 2100 7 days a week and when triggered will last for up to 12 hours, so not something you would downgrade to.
:LOL:
:LOL:
I take it this means you will not downgrade.
I take it this means you will not downgrade.
No. it means that was funny :)
how much is it?
No. it means that was funny :)
how much is it?
I don,t think the is an actual price for it as it is not on the website, according to what I have read it is more of a deal closer when trying to sell TV and Phone, such as and by the way we can offer you free broadband if you take this deal, more a selling point.
BenMcr will probably spot this and clarify things as this is what he deals with.
From what I've been told it's available to all that are already on the 2Mb or any of the others. I can see this being another con where if you don't want the upgrade you can go back to the 2Mb but it means signing up for another 12 months.
It is NOT avalaible as a downgrade option for BB M customers as it costs exactly the same as BB M does
From what I've been told it's available to all that are already on the 2Mb or any of the others. I can see this being another con where if you don't want the upgrade you can go back to the 2Mb but it means signing up for another 12 months.
As I said Ben will clarify when he reads this, but I would never go down to that service as you could not download anything.
It is NOT avalaible as a downgrade option for BB M customers as it costs exactly the same as BB M does
So what is the point of it then if it's the same price but you can't download anything with it?
It's not as Moldova says by the way we can offer you free broadband if you take this deal, more a selling point. package.
So what is the point of it then if it's the same price but you can't download anything with it?
It's not as Moldova says by the way we can offer you free broadband if you take this deal, more a selling point. package.
Its a 'last ditch' product for those people that don't want BB L - as it is a few ££ cheaper.
Its a 'last ditch' product for those people that don't want BB L
So it's not going to be available for existing customers?
Why would somebody want the 2Mb for the same price as the 10Mb is, when the 2Mb one is going to have heavy restrictions placed on it?
I hope Virgin is going to be very upfront about the restrictions that come with this one, and not leave it up to us to con ourselves all over again.
So it's not going to be available for existing customers?
Only to try and stop them disconnecting over price.
Why would somebody want the 2Mb for the same price as the 10Mb is, when the 2Mb one is going to have heavy restrictions placed on it?
God knows. They would be very very silly if they do.
I hope Virgin is going to be very upfront about the restrictions that come with this one, and not leave it up to us to con ourselves all over again.
The agents that put customers on it should be telling them - the rubbish STM is there for a reason, so hopefully people decide not to take it up
Only to try and stop them disconnecting over price.
I want to disconnect, it's too much.
I can put you on this one it's got really heavy restrictions and it's the same price you want to disconnect for.
Sounds great, I'll have it.
:confused:
I want to disconnect, it's too much.
I can put you on this one it's got really heavy restrictions and it's the same price you want to disconnect for.
Sounds great, I'll have it.
:confused:
Nooo - if they are on BB M they won't be offered it !!!
It's for a last ditch for customers on L,XL and XXL - if they end up wanting to disconnect over price or because 'we don't use it that much'
Nooo - if they are on BB M they won't be offered it !!!
It's for a last ditch for customers on L,XL and XXL - if they end up wanting to disconnect over price or because 'we don't use it that much'
There won't be a BB M soon. it will be 10/20/50 only.
so from what you're saying the 2Mb will be offered at the same price as it is now to 10/20/50.
Will there be a new 12 month contract needed if anybody does take up this offer?
If it's there for people who 'don't use it that much' then why does Virgin feel the need that these people need to have STM applied for such a long period?
General Maximus
20-03-2009, 15:55
to prove Ben's point, a couple of month ago I had XL BB and M phone and I was paying £11 a month for the phone and £37 or whatever it is for the internet. I was checking 50mbit availabilility on the VM website and saw an ad for M phone + XL BB for £26 a month. I gave the dudes a ring to find out what was going and why i had been paying so much all this time and they said that that was an offer for new customers but they could do me XL phone, XL BB and M TV (freeview) for £26. I wasn't too fussed about the TV because we already have Sky but I said sure thing and we had it in the bedroom. So as a "deal clincher" I took the TV from the bundle/cost point of view. Everyone wants internet these days no matter what they say and yes 10mbit is a great speed to have if you only do normal stuff, some may genuinely not use the internet that much to justify the cost so sure, let them have their 2mbit for free like M phone and M TV.
---------- Post added at 15:55 ---------- Previous post was at 15:51 ----------
Will there be a new 12 month contract needed if anybody does take up this offer?
Yup, when i changed my price i changed package which was a new 12 month contract (which they told me about on the phone) and I warned them that as soon as 50mbit was available i want it and they said no problemo, when i upgraded that would setup a new 12 month contract. So yes, if you change your bundle/package, even if it is to get rid of your 10mbit internet and go back down to 2mbit with whatever tv and phone you have, you will be signing up for a new bundle which will be a new 12 month contract. If you don't want a new 12 month contract dont take the 2mbit and just scrap the internet altogether.
Yup, when i changed my price i changed package which was a new 12 month contract (which they told me about on the phone) and I warned them that as soon as 50mbit was available i want it and they said no problemo, when i upgraded that would setup a new 12 month contract. So yes, if you change your bundle/package, even if it is to get rid of your 10mbit internet and go back down to 2mbit with whatever tv and phone you have, you will be signing up for a new bundle which will be a new 12 month contract. If you don't want a new 12 month contract dont take the 2mbit and just scrap the internet altogether.
Had to be that really. since the credit crunch started you're seeing loads of companies trying to tie people into extended contracts.
There won't be a BB M soon. it will be 10/20/50 only.
so from what you're saying the 2Mb will be offered at the same price as it is now to 10/20/50.
BB L is now the only 10Mbit service you can downgrade to - and that's £25 a month with a phone
BB S with a phoneline is the same price as BB M - which is £3/4 cheaper than BB L
Will there be a new 12 month contract needed if anybody does take up this offer?
Yes - all downgrades with a new bundle price are a new 12 months
If it's there for people who 'don't use it that much' then why does Virgin feel the need that these people need to have STM applied for such a long period?
Because it is also there to try and persuade those last few people on dial up to move across. Even the rubbish STM on S will be better than they can do at the moment
General Maximus
20-03-2009, 17:14
I would love to know how many people are left on dialup these days, I thought pretty much everyone has broadband no matter how slow it is. I can't imagine going back to dial up ever again, it is like living in the stone age.
Tarantella
20-03-2009, 17:42
This will not be actively sold and will be used as a deal closer and all you will be able to do with it is browse and download email as the will be an STM of 0900 till 2100 7 days a week and when triggered will last for up to 12 hours, so not something you would downgrade to.
Wrong!
You can quite happily listen to iPlayer radio and play computer games at the same time with a 2mb connection.
Low quality iPlayer programmes can be watched too without STM kicking in.
I would be unhappy about being upgraded to 10mb because I might be tempted to watch HQ Iplayer and for sure I would end up stealing other peoples bandwidth and suffer the consequences that might entail.
You can quite happily listen to iPlayer radio and play computer games at the same time with a 2mb connection.
Low quality iPlayer programmes can be watched too without STM kicking in.
could you do that with a 200Mbyte downstream trigger limit - because that is what is on BB S
I would be unhappy about being upgraded to 10mb because I might be tempted to watch HQ Iplayer and for sure I would end up stealing other peoples bandwidth and suffer the consequences that might entail.
Eh? You wouldn't steal anything
Turkey Machine
20-03-2009, 17:48
I would love to know how many people are left on dialup these days, I thought pretty much everyone has broadband no matter how slow it is. I can't imagine going back to dial up ever again, it is like living in the stone age.
I recently helped somebody connect via PAYG dialup because she's miles from the exchange and doesn't want broadband as yet. I suspect if she could get a broadband signal, it'd be in the 1Mbit range.
Also, is S 2Mbit gonna replace those currently on S 512Kbit?
Wrong!
You can quite happily listen to iPlayer radio and play computer games at the same time with a 2mb connection.
Low quality iPlayer programmes can be watched too without STM kicking in.
I would be unhappy about being upgraded to 10mb because I might be tempted to watch HQ Iplayer and for sure I would end up stealing other peoples bandwidth and suffer the consequences that might entail.
Please ask or get the facts before posting Wrong!
As this thread has nothing whatsoever to do with the present 2Mb package it is a new package as spoken about above, this one has a 200 Mb downstream trigger limit between 0900 and 2100,12 hours a day 24/7 and an STM that can last up to 12 hours thats what the new one will have.
Also, is S 2Mbit gonna replace those currently on S 512Kbit?
Nope - hopefully there isn't anyone left on 512kbit
I recently helped somebody connect via PAYG dialup because she's miles from the exchange and doesn't want broadband as yet. I suspect if she could get a broadband signal, it'd be in the 1Mbit range.
Also, is S 2Mbit gonna replace those currently on S 512Kbit?
That is still a separate package and they would have to call in to get an upgrade, but many are quite happy with them.
---------- Post added at 18:31 ---------- Previous post was at 18:30 ----------
Nope - hopefully there isn't anyone left on 512kbit
We still see the odd one or two.
---------- Post added at 18:32 ---------- Previous post was at 18:31 ----------
I want to disconnect, it's too much.
I can put you on this one it's got really heavy restrictions and it's the same price you want to disconnect for.
Sounds great, I'll have it.
:confused:
I told you Ben could give you the answers.
whats th epoint of having this product?
whats th epoint of having this product?
Not much except for the reasons posted above, just a stopgap filler in most scenarios.
General Maximus
20-03-2009, 20:28
I might be tempted to watch HQ Iplayer
Go for it dude, that is what technology is for. This time last year I was downloading tv series at 512*384 on my 20mbit connection for my monitor which was 1280*960. Now I have got 50mbits and downloading HD encodings for my widescreen monitor which is 1680*1050. Move with the times, endulge yourself and live life to the full.
All good compared to some other dialup replacement broadbands, what would you rather, 200MB / day STM or 1 / 2 or 3GB per month quota - only thing wrong with it is the price - with Sky, you get the dialup replacement broadband free (if you also take Sky talk).
slowcoach
20-03-2009, 21:28
“Move with the times, endulge yourself and live life to the full.”
I threw the TV out 16 years ago but now I want to live life to the full, is there no hope for me? :dozey:
General Maximus
21-03-2009, 00:16
nope, let me think of what life-changing stuff you have missed out on:
Buffy
Star Trek
Heroes
Lost
Dark Angel
24
Babylon 5 (best TV series ever)
Smallville
Alias
Friends
Stargate
I could go on
As for dialup,I would want BB any day of the week regardless of the restrictions. You just can't do anything will dialup, it takes ages just for one webpage to load up. It is like me saying I want to speak to my friend in Holland and instead of sending him a text on my mobile I am going to write a letter and send it by carrier pigeon.
slowcoach
21-03-2009, 08:11
My life feels so empty after reading your list. :erm:
I think I would cut my wrists before I reached the end of a Friends episode.
Don't they have anything with a good plot these days?
General Maximus
21-03-2009, 10:35
yup, that is why tv series like Battlestar Galactica are so amazing, and sadly the last episode aired last night :cry:
After a call with CS they informed me of the following and I would like to
see if you could confirm this with your superiors:
1. After the 1st May you will be able to register online to jump the queue
and have your upgrade to 10Mb done as a priority.
2. The rollout will be complete in October.
Anyone from Virgin able to confirm this?
I think the priority could well be an agreement to a new 12 month contract.
Those are both right but there is nothing to say that priority registration will be a 12 months. I can't see why it would be
I would expect the registration site to appear before the 1st of May though
Those are both right but there is nothing to say that priority registration will be a 12 months. I can't see why it would be
I would expect the registration site to appear before the 1st of May though
There's a reason why you can choose priority. especially when Virgin is involved.
You know quite a bit. do we just have to ask you a specific question before you tell us something you wouldn't normally be helpful and tell us anyway? :)
There's a reason why you can choose priority. especially when Virgin is involved.
My personal view is that priority registration is for those that really really want the 10Mbit - nothing more.
They will want to avoid a mass migration as changing around 2 millions connections needs to be handled carefully!
You know quite a bit. do we just have to ask you a specific question before you tell us something you wouldn't normally be helpful and tell us anyway? :)
Sorry to ask, but can you rephrase that? Not quite sure that that sentence is supposed to say!
Ignitionnet
24-03-2009, 18:12
There's a reason why you can choose priority. especially when Virgin is involved.
You know quite a bit. do we just have to ask you a specific question before you tell us something you wouldn't normally be helpful and tell us anyway? :)
Selfcare has been receiving some upgrade love so that it's ready for people to do their upgrades. I believe this is both for early registration and for opt-out from upgrade.
Ben knows as much as anyone who works in customer relations, you'd expect them to receive briefings on such things to deal with queries.
I'm Customer Services ;)
As I said - nothing in any brief to say new 12 months
My personal view is that priority registration is for those that really really want the 10Mbit - nothing more.
They will want to avoid a mass migration as changing around 2 millions connections needs to be handled carefully!
I don't think it is. they've done upgrades before by an area by area basis. people will just have to wait like they always have done. I would suspect that the last thing they would want is to have staff taking calls doing priority upgrades.
there has to be a 12 month reason why.
Sorry to ask, but can you rephrase that? Not quite sure that that sentence is supposed to say!
It says how come you didn't tell us about the priority hot line before? :)
---------- Post added at 18:16 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------
I believe this is both for early registration and for opt-out from upgrade.
Interesting if you could opt out.
Opt out. thank you, you are now on 2MB SMALL, please wait while we enable STM and new exciting restrictions.
you might see your modem reboot.
:)
I don't think it is. they've done upgrades before by an area by area basis. people will just have to wait like they always have done. I would suspect that the last thing they would want is to have staff taking calls doing priority upgrades.
there has to be a 12 month reason why.
As I said it's not in any brief. They would have said something by now if it was.
It says how come you didn't tell us about the priority hot line before? :)
Because I only try and say stuff once it is confirmed. Also no point mentioning something that isn't online yet ;)
---------- Post added at 18:16 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------
Interesting if you could opt out.
It's an opt in only. There will be no opt out of the upgrade - just when it happens.
I don't think it is. <snip>
Thats why Ben said "My personal View", your view may not be right either.
It says how come you didn't tell us about the priority hot line before? :)
</end_snip>
What do you want from the man, a txt from him each and every time he learns of a new process?
Thats why Ben said "My personal View", your view may not be right either.
That's why I said "I don't think it is" if I thought I was right I wouldn't say I think.
What do you want from the man, a txt from him each and every time he learns of a new process?
That's an idea isn't it.
anything you want? or are you just moaning for the sake of moaning again?
Its a wonderful idea, thats why I mentioned it though I doubt Ben will agree to texting since he spends enough time answering, not all, but daft questions all day & on his own time
No, I'm done with you for now. You'll know if I want anything more, thanks for asking kind sir.
No, I'm done with you for now. You'll know if I want anything more
Let us hope it's a bit more constructive at the time :)
thanks for asking kind sir.
I'm far from kind.
Ok got some now.
Do you think its the push to have legacy dial up moved to he size s or do you think there is something a foot with the .net aspect of the business?
Will you be downgrading?
Since its opt in, will you wait till roll out and contact CS and look to strike a retention deal so you can move to the new S ( there is a credit crunch ;) )
I'm far from kind.
Oh, I bet your a sweet, polite pussy cat IRL ;)
Don't be so down on yourself :)
@Ben, so do you know if there will be an offer made to the legacy dial up customers to take the new size s?
@Ben, so do you know if there will be an offer made to the legacy dial up customers to take the new size s?
Doubtful - especially BB L is £1 cheaper than Subscription dial-up anyway
BB S is LAST RESORT only. It's hasn't been designed for 'up-front' offers
Thanks for the swift reply Ben. One more question if I may, I don't want to seem as though I'm badgering you and of course I understand this will be your opinion unless you know for sure.
Since the BB s is a last resort do you think/know if the offer will be made only if a criteria is meet on existing packages & deals?
Thanks for taking the time to answer.
There is no standard option to downgrade to BB S. None of the main offers (e.g 3 for £30/£35) allow it.
For existing broadband customers it will an out of contract Customer Relations option only
For non-broadband customers it is 'only if you really really don't want BB L/XL/XXL/free router/V Stuff/PC Guard Total' etc
fireman328
24-03-2009, 21:30
My g/f has dialup because she uses it only for e-mail and checks her mail every week lol. She prefers TXT for comms.
smithzert
24-05-2009, 09:37
I'm resurrecting this thread with a bit more information - for those like me who want the cheapest connection and are already virgin customers.
There is some talk in here of why someone would opt for size s when they can get a faster connection for the same price. Well, you can't if you are an existing virgin customer. The cheapest offer on http://allyours.virginmedia.com/websales/service.do?id=2 at present is broadband L + phone M at £14 a month after the first 3 months bait price. However, anyone already signed up to virgin can't get this price unless they cancel for 6 months and then sign up again as a new customer. I was on size m + phone for £14.50 a month. They tried to put me on a higher speed for £18 a month. I don't want or need a faster speed. Nor do I want to speed £18 a month for the internet! The only lower option I was offered was size s for £14 a month. This is with no phone, but I never used it anyway - I use a mobile - I only had it because it was part of a bundle at no extra cost.
There is also some talk of crippling traffic management if you are on size s. According to http://www.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management.php you get throttled 50% on your upstream and 75% on your downstream between 9am and 9pm (once you reach the threshold). 'Unlimited' otherwise I guess. If you don't download a lot this won't affect you anyway.
My own experience on size s is that it is exactly the same as the connection I had before (size m). I have the same upload and download maximums and when I do get throttled it is down to the same speeds as before. Also, I don't get throttled between 9am and 9pm as the page above states, but just now and again, again just as I used to on size m.
It's my guess that the truth of it is that if you are an existing customer they just try to hike the price to get you to upgrade once you reach the end of your contract. If you say no, they shove you on the lowest tariff and do nothing physically to alter your connection. It's just a marketing ploy to increase your monthly payments. Of course if you want to pay £50 a month instead of £14 for 'xxl' then go for it, but I bet you won't use it, unless you are one of the minority who are downloading things 24 hours a day. The vast majority download one or two large things rarely and maybe watch something on iPlayer every so often, with the end result that the connection is left virtually unused for 99% of the time - at whatever speed you are on - and at £50 a month for xxl I say thanks but no thanks. :drool:
If you decide to opt for size s: you can still download things just as before (it takes a bit longer than xxl - but so what?), and you can still watch TV on iPlayer with no stalling in playback (and so I presume with other such players too) .
I hope this helps anyone trying to decide whether to pay extra for a faster speed when their existing virgin contract is up.
There are several errors in the above
However, anyone already signed up to virgin can't get this price unless they cancel for 6 months and then sign up again as a new customer. I was on size m + phone for £14.50 a month. They tried to put me on a higher speed for £18 a month
Most people on Size M + Phone get it for £12 a month (£20 BB M + £11 Phone - £8 discount) which is £2 cheaper than BB L + Phone
Even if you were on the £15.50 BB M + Phone for 12 month offer, once that expires it goes to £23 in total - so again £12 a month for BB M
If you take BB S + Phone it is £11 a month (£18 + £11 - £7 discount) - so you save yourself a whole £12 a year
My own experience on size s is that it is exactly the same as the connection I had before (size m). I have the same upload and download maximums and when I do get throttled it is down to the same speeds as before.
BB M 2Mbit traffic management drops you to 1Mbit during any STM period
BB S traffic management drops to 512Kbit during any STM period
---------- Post added at 09:52 ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 ----------
Of course if you want to pay £50 a month instead of £14 for 'xxl' then go for it,
Of course you also don't have to compare one price which is without a phoneline to another price which is WITH a phoneline for dramatic effect
BB XXL is £35 when you take a phone, just as BB L is £14 when you take a phone
smithzert
24-05-2009, 10:42
There are several errors in the above
Nothing intentional, and I checked it all as I posted, but I thank you anyway. You seem to be in the know though, so perhaps you could comment further on the following.
Most people on Size M + Phone get it for £12 a month (£20 BB M + £11 Phone - £8 discount) which is £2 cheaper than BB L + Phone
I quoted broadband L + phone M at £14 a month from http://allyours.virginmedia.com/websales/service.do?id=2 after the first 3 months bait price. Can I assume that your £12 a month is calculated from ((£5 x 3 months) + (£14 x 9 months)) / 12 months = £11.75 a month? Because I see no £12 a month on that page. The reason I used the after bait price was because there is no 3 month bait discount for existing customers renewing their term.
Even if you were on the £15.50 BB M + Phone for 12 month offer, once that expires it goes to £23 in total - so again £12 a month for BB M
I was on £14.50 not £15.50 because I was receiving a £1 discount for ebilling. Yes you are right, they originally tried to double my price to £23, but upon phoning I was offered £18 a month which, after my refusing that, was reduced to £14. I don't quite understand what prices you are quoting, so I will say that my £14 a month is (according to the letter) actually £18 a month - £3 'loyalty' - £1 ebilling, giving £14.
If you take BB S + Phone it is £11 a month (£18 + £11 - £7 discount) - so you save yourself a whole £12 a year
I would be very very interested in where you are getting this because I was not offered this. This is effectively what I had originally (broadband s is the same as my original broadband m). I asked (repeatedly) and they (repeatedly) quoted me £18 for broadband + phone (I'm not sure which broadband speed that was for). They even phoned me days later after I had refused the £18 'offer' to try to get me to sign up for it again and I, once again, asked what the cheapest broadband they could give me was (with or without a phone) and they said (again) broadband s for £14. So, please tell me exactly what I should say to them to get this broadband s + phone for £11 a month that you are quoting. I will then use a link to your reply in an email to them to query why I am not allowed on this tariff.
BB M 2Mbit traffic management drops you to 1Mbit during any STM period
BB S traffic management drops to 512Kbit during any STM period
I get confused by all these anagrams and upstream/downstream so I quoted the figures from http://www.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management.php verbatim. I just checked again and my figures are correct (according to that virgin traffic management page). As I say, I have no idea what you mean by STM and so on, so I don't know if you are agreeing with me or not. If not, then the virgin page is wrong!
I then said "My own experience on size s..." and stated my actual experience, which is most definitely not wrong, and is the same as I had on broadband m. It amounts to 270,000 bytes received per second (according to the networking tab in windows task manager). When choked it goes down to 135,000 bytes received per second.
Of course you also don't have to compare one price which is without a phoneline to another price which is WITH a phoneline for dramatic effect
BB XXL is £35 when you take a phone, just as BB L is £14 when you take a phone
I wasn't trying for dramatic effect, I was comparing my £14 a month with no phone to the price for xxl with no phone as stated on http://allyours.virginmedia.com/websales/service.do?id=2, which is £50. But, you are half right, because I did blank the less prominent £35 a month price. Why do they make the lower price with more features less prominent?! In fact, why do they offer broadband without phone at all, because I assume that even if you wanted some other phone supplier you would/could sign up for the lower bundle price with a virgin phone and just not use it? Or not. :erm:
I quoted broadband L + phone M at £14 a month from http://allyours.virginmedia.com/websales/service.do?id=2 after the first 3 months bait price. Can I assume that your £12 a month is calculated from ((£5 x 3 months) + (£14 x 9 months)) / 12 months = £11.75 a month? Because I see no £12 a month on that page. The reason I used the after bait price was because there is no 3 month bait discount for existing customers renewing their term.
No - I was quoting for BB M customers which no longer appears on the sales website because the product was withdrawn from new sales in February
I was on £14.50 not £15.50 because I was receiving a £1 discount for ebilling. Yes you are right, they originally tried to double my price to £23, but upon phoning I was offered £18 a month which, after my refusing that, was reduced to £14. I don't quite understand what prices you are quoting, so I will say that my £14 a month is (according to the letter) actually £18 a month - £3 'loyalty' - £1 ebilling, giving £14.
In that case your original price should have worked out as follows:
BB M £18
Phone £11
Phone/BB Saving -£8
Additional Saving -£5.50
E-billing Discount -£1
=£14.50
The £5.50 discount would have ran out at 12 months and the BB M charge increase to £20 this month which makes BB M £12 (£20 - £8 discount) on top of phone line rental - £2 less than BB L is
what I should say to them to get this broadband s + phone for £11 a month that you are quoting. I will then use a link to your reply in an email to them to query why I am not allowed on this tariff.
What I meant is that BB S is £11 ON TOP of the Phone line so £22 a month in total - a whole £1 cheaper the BB M + Phone @ £23
I get confused by all these anagrams and upstream/downstream so I quoted the figures from http://www.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management.php verbatim. I just checked again and my figures are correct (according to that virgin traffic management page). As I say, I have no idea what you mean by STM and so on, so I don't know if you are agreeing with me or not. If not, then the virgin page is wrong!
50% of 2 is 1 (BB M 2Mbit)
75% of 2 is 0.5 (BB S)
So BB S on Subscriber Traffic Managment has less thant BB M 2Mbit
I wasn't trying for dramatic effect, I was comparing my £14 a month with no phone to the price for xxl with no phone as stated on http://allyours.virginmedia.com/websales/service.do?id=2, which is £50. But, you are half right, because I did blank the less prominent £35 a month price. Why do they make the lower price with more features less prominent?! In fact, why do they offer broadband without phone at all, because I assume that even if you wanted some other phone supplier you would/could sign up for the lower bundle price with a virgin phone and just not use it? Or not. :erm:
Personally I don't know why. Some people just don't want a Virgin phone and prefer to pay more
smithzert
24-05-2009, 12:56
No - I was quoting for BB M customers which no longer appears on the sales website because the product was withdrawn from new sales in February
So the price of £12 is no longer available.
In that case your original price should have worked out as follows:
BB M £18
Phone £11
Phone/BB Saving -£8
Additional Saving -£5.50
E-billing Discount -£1
=£14.50
The £5.50 discount would have ran out at 12 months and the BB M charge increase to £20 this month which makes BB M £12 (£20 - £8 discount) on top of phone line rental - £2 less than BB L is
Yes this was one of the things that bugged me when I first signed up. Splashed all over the blurb was "no need to pay BT for line rental". It's a shame virgin forget to mention that you are just paying them instead.
What I meant is that BB S is £11 ON TOP of the Phone line so £22 a month in total - a whole £1 cheaper the BB M + Phone @ £23
And still £7.50 more than I was paying for broadband m + phone (£22 - £14.50). And £8 more than I'm paying for broadband s (which is the same speed as I was getting for £14.50 a month).
50% of 2 is 1 (BB M 2Mbit)
75% of 2 is 0.5 (BB S)
So BB S on Subscriber Traffic Managment has less thant BB M 2Mbit
This is just statistics. And confuses me at best. What I want to know is if I have my connection going at full speed for 24 hours, what amount of data can I download. And I want the figure to include the data I can't download because my connection is being choked. Then I want that figure for all the speeds that virgin offer. Kind of like the banks do with AER. Otherwise it's impossible to compare like for like.
Because of this: I sign up for latest greatest speed X. But if I download more than Y in some period I get choked, meaning for the period I am choked I cannot download at the advertised speed X. If Y is low, and the period of choking is half the day, all I can actually manage to download is 0.75 X (ie. half the day at X + half the day at 0.5 X). All the figures are meaningless when quoted at full tilt. It's just another multinational company using bait and switch to fool the unwary (who are the vast majority). If anyone thinks I'm wrong I'll sell you my farrari that goes 250 mph for ten times the price of my 'worse' car that goes 70mph. Shame you can't go faster than 70 mph on any road (legally anyway), and most of the time you will be going 30 mph in traffic.
Personally I don't know why. Some people just don't want a Virgin phone and prefer to pay more
Yes but why is it £50 without the phone and £35 with the phone? My guess (and it is only a guess) is that virgin call charges are high, meaning that what they don't charge in the monthly fee they more than claw back in monthly call charges. Bait and switch is bait and switch no matter how you spin it.
So the price of £12 is no longer available.
Not unless you are already on BB M
For the third time - when your offer ran out YOU WERE PAYING £12 FOR BB M (+ £11 line rental). The same as everyone else is/will be
Yes this was one of the things that bugged me when I first signed up. Splashed all over the blurb was "no need to pay BT for line rental". It's a shame virgin forget to mention that you are just paying them instead.
No they didn't forget. It's on the adverts, in the contract and on your bill
And still £7.50 more than I was paying for broadband m + phone (£22 - £14.50).
Because that offer was 12 month price only - as it said when you took it out! (The adverts stated BB M for £4.50 a month for 12 months when you take a Virgin phoneline)
And £8 more than I'm paying for broadband s (which is the same speed as I was getting for £14.50 a month).
Because you now don't have a phone line and it is a basic service of course it will be cheaper!
This is just statistics. And confuses me at best. What I want to know is if I have my connection going at full speed for 24 hours, what amount of data can I download. And I want the figure to include the data I can't download because my connection is being choked. Then I want that figure for all the speeds that virgin offer. Kind of like the banks do with AER. Otherwise it's impossible to compare like for like.
On BB S if you download at full speed for 15 Mins between 9am - 9pm you will then get your speed cut by 75% for the next 12 hours. Clear enough for you?
Yes but why is it £50 without the phone and £35 with the phone? My guess (and it is only a guess) is that virgin call charges are high, meaning that what they don't charge in the monthly fee they more than claw back in monthly call charges. Bait and switch is bait and switch no matter how you spin it.
It's called business. All companies will want you to have more than one service with them. It is YOUR choice whether to do so or not
smithzert
24-05-2009, 18:31
For the third time - when your offer ran out YOU WERE PAYING £12 FOR BB M (+ £11 line rental). The same as everyone else is/will be
Look, you quoting me
BB M £18
Phone £11
Phone/BB Saving -£8
Additional Saving -£5.50
E-billing Discount -£1
=£14.50
The £5.50 discount would have ran out at 12 months and the BB M charge increase to £20 this month which makes BB M £12 (£20 - £8 discount)
which I did read and digest thank you, is nonsense. I was paying, as you rightly quote, £14.50 a month for broadband m + phone. The fact that you then fudge the figures with + this and - that is twaddle. I paid £14.50 a month for broadband m + phone. I am now paying £14 for broadband s and no phone. If you honestly think the internal +'s and -'s mean anything then good luck to you. Do you want to buy my house for £1? The only thing is, you'll have to buy the keys too, and they're £1,000,000. Do you see? All that matters is the final cost. Nothing else. It's marketing nonsense. Another example: my current charge of £14 is actually made up of £18 (for the broadband) - £3 ('loyalty' bonus) - £1 for ebilling. Now, the 'loyalty' bonus is simply a marketing kludge to twiddle the charge so that it remains competitive with other ISPs. If it were really a loyalty bonus (note no quotes this time) I would be charged the price that new customers are charged - lets take that as £14 a month as that is the cheapest price from http://allyours.virginmedia.com/websales/service.do?id=2 - minus my loyalty bonus of £3, giving a price of £11 per month. But I'm not am I? No, I'm charged £14 a month. 'Loyalty' bonus. Phah.
No they didn't forget. It's on the adverts, in the contract and on your bill
Do you guys go on a course that teaches you to talk nonsense? When I signed up it was not on the adverts. This I can prove - I took an image of the advert page before I signed up and will post it if you contradict me again - all it says is $4.50 + £11 a month for the phone. That indicates a charge of £11 for the phone, not the line rental and, as I stated before, it actually says "with most other providers you need to pay line rental - but not with virgin. Think of the savings each month". How much clearer can that be a lie? As for being in the contract, writing things in really small writing is always guaranteed to get peoples attention isn't it? My bill? You don't get that until after you sign up do you now? Blimey O Riley.
Because that offer was 12 month price only - as it said when you took it out! (The adverts stated BB M for £4.50 a month for 12 months when you take a Virgin phoneline)
Because you now don't have a phone line and it is a basic service of course it will be cheaper!
I never denied it. I was merely comparing it to the current price for the same speed. Not everything people write is a criticism. (I usually put those in bold.)
On BB S if you download at full speed for 15 Mins between 9am - 9pm you will then get your speed cut by 75% for the next 12 hours. Clear enough for you?
We've wandered off into twaddle again. I suggest you read this thread: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33650436-the-true-cost-virgin-s-service.html. In it I describe how my connection does not do what you suggest (which you have simply taken from the virgin traffic management page). In fact, as with every other person that mentions it at all, my speed goes up and down like a yo-yo. Once again this is not a criticism, as I don't really care about the speed, but you quoting what is written on virgin's PR pages as being the truth is not helpful in the slightest. If you like, I will post an image of my download meter from today, where I have been downloading a 4GB Linux DVD image, with the speed going up and down and up a down and up and down...
But then why bother? You'll just call me a liar again won't you?
It's called business. All companies will want you to have more than one service with them. It is YOUR choice whether to do so or not
No, it's called bait and switch. You bait them in with a low price (written as £5 a month, then hike the price later on (written as for the first 3 months, then £14 a month after that). Then, after a year, you make the lowest prices (even with the 'loyalty' bonus) unavailable to your existing customers, and use their payments to subsidise the discounts for the new victims, who will themselves become susidisers a year later. Don't confuse marketing cons with decency. I bought a new door lock from a locksmith once and it did not fit my door (which was my mistake). I took it back and he replaced it for the correct one, despite the fact that I had opened the packet containing the one I had. Conversely, I bought a heater from Comet, took it home, and it did not work. Obviously I had to unpack it to discover that. I took it back. They refused to replace it because I had unpacked it. Do you see the difference? Let me spell it out: I will buy more things from the locksmith. I will not buy more things from Comet. One is good business, the other is Dell Trotter. Where do you think virgin stands? Perhaps more importantly: is your name Rodney?
You know if you are not satisfied with what VM offers you can always move to another ISP..It will be less stressful in the long run..:)
Milambar
24-05-2009, 18:40
One is good business, the other is Dell Trotter. Where do you think virgin stands? Perhaps more importantly: is your name Rodney?
ROFL, sorry, harsh, but gods, I had to laugh.
Its not bait it is a loss leader just like those special offers in the supermarket that draws you in, all businesses do it.
smithzert
24-05-2009, 19:15
You know if you are not satisfied with what VM offers you can always move to another ISP..It will be less stressful in the long run..:)
Well you see, it is much like the government. If I change them for the other side what do I get? The same thing but under a diferrent name. When the choice is between nothing, mediocre, crud and twaddle, what do you pick?
Besides, I don't have a problem with virgin (despite appearances). All I have a problem with is people telling me X when I have Y right in front of me. It's even worse when the X I'm being told is from somebody that knows nothing about it (in this case my download speed).
Many people can ignore twaddle I know. Me, I like to pounch on it and worry it a bit.
---------- Post added at 19:15 ---------- Previous post was at 19:12 ----------
Its not bait it is a loss leader just like those special offers in the supermarket that draws you in, all businesses do it.
Yes I know. All MPs fiddle their expenses too. Does it make what MPs do right?
I still (barely) remember when you could do business with someone that had a face, and that someone would treat you nicely, decently, with respect even. But all that is gone now. All you get is "everyone does it so it is all right". Well, it is not all right. It sucks. Big time. I yearn for the guy that will say "you know, we messed up, sorry". You know?
So what it basically boils down to is you didn't read the offer in full when you took it out, and now that is gone up you feel hard done by?
smithzert
24-05-2009, 20:57
So what it basically boils down to is you didn't read the offer in full when you took it out, and now that is gone up you feel hard done by?
You again? And you're still twaddling!
Tell me, do you even read what people write?
I don't feel hard done by. I never said I did. What I said is what you have written is twaddle. And it is. BIG twaddle. And you're still doing it. Except now you're doing the "I haven't really got anything sensible to say so I'll just thumb my nose at you" thing.
I have criticised virgin for charging their existing customers more than their new customers - particularly as the charge I am being asked to pay includes a 'loyalty' bonus. Nothing more, and definitely nothing less. I think that's fair don't you? Except you don't do you? Oh well, pooh.
I also criticised virgin for (a) lying in their "no line rental" advertising approach, which I said I'd post if you called me a liar again, so here it is: http://i44.tinypic.com/2qxt81y.jpg, and (b) hiding their small print in, well, tiny print, whilst toting their (not correct for the full year) monthly charge as £5 a month in LARGE print. That is here: http://allyours.virginmedia.com/websales/service.do?id=2. Why do you think they do this? That is a rhetorical question I guess. We all know why they do it: so that people will see it and go all googly eyed at the price then get all click happy and sign up without reading the tiny print. Now, if you are going to tell me that is not so I am going to cry. If you then tell me that you, in your wisdom, always read the tiny print I am going to laugh myself silly.
Narf.
I also criticised virgin for (a) lying in their "no line rental" advertising approach, which I said I'd post if you called me a liar again, so here it is: http://i44.tinypic.com/2qxt81y.jpg,
.
What you have circled is the Broadband only column which by virtue of being Cable does not require a phone line, the cost of which is £10 for the first 6 months increasing to £18 after that period.
It also says quite clearly in the next column that if you take a phone line that you will pay £4.50 for 12 months saving yourself £54 after which it will increase in price plus line rental of £11.
Do you expect them to give you an offer for a set period and when it finishes to just continue with that offer, not going to happen with any company.
smithzert
24-05-2009, 22:26
What you have circled is the Broadband only column which by virtue of being Cable does not require a phone line, the cost of which is £10 for the first 6 months increasing to £18 after that period.
Yes you are right. Wrong again. It was the argument over the breaking up of the fees into + this and - that which confused me. I am shamefaced.
Do you expect them to give you an offer for a set period and when it finishes to just continue with that offer, not going to happen with any company.
No I don't. I don't know how many times I've said that I don't today in this forum. I never did.
No I don't. I don't know how many times I've said that I don't today in this forum. I never did.
Ok I realise you are just annoyed by the way things are printed on the Virgin website.
Have you ever tried to make sense of the BT website, they make Virgins look as clear as a bell.
smithzert
24-05-2009, 22:49
Ok I realise you are just annoyed by the way things are printed on the Virgin website.
Have you ever tried to make sense of the BT website, they make Virgins look as clear as a bell.
I'm annoyed by the attempts (that work on 99% of the public) to hoodwink them into buying things they don't need and upgrading things that will add 0% to their usage thereof. I would like to see a price list that quotes the averaged out monthly price, per month, for the term of the contract. You know why they do it. We all do. We're not stupid people. But so many are. And they are the ones that get caught out. They are the ones that get hopelessly in debt because of it. They buy everything they see because they are told to. I would like to see an honest business with an honest approach. I would like to see it everywhere. I'm not senile (yet) - I know it will never happen. But I won't stop fighting against it nonetheless.
It may be a shock, but I like virgin. Compared to the other ISPs I've used they are say at 90% of what I want vs the 10% of the others. But they went down in my opinion by failing to offer me what I wanted at the first bite of the cherry. If I hadn't have argued I would have been paying £21 a month or whatever it was instead of the £14 I am now paying. It hurts this country and the people in it to be fed upon in this way by the multinational companies. They see it as normal and adopt it in their own life. Think eBay. Think weekend markets. Think of the greed that pervades our whole society, in TV, in films, in music, in books, in newspapers, in every form of media. I don't like it and I will continue to fight it until I die - even if it makes me look a complete fool.
Anyhoo, I'm outa here (or some other equally cool adios)...
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