Virgin Media to battle cloned modems. [Archive]

Fatec

19-03-2009, 12:28

More than a thousand hackers are using reconfigured cable modems to fraudulently access free high speed Virgin Media broadband, sources have revealed.

The hack has been made possible by the recent launch of Virgin Media's 50Mbit/s "XXL" package. It relies on new equipment running the upgraded DOCSIS 3.0 data transmission standard.

The launch has allowed hackers to apply the new configuration from Virgin Media's official up to 50Mbit/s home modem to legacy DOCSIS 1.0 hardware, to access the DOCSIS 1.0 platform at higher speeds. Our source said over a thousand lines have been seen obtaining about 30Mbit/s downstream.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/19/virgin_media_cloned_modems/

:angel::D

chuzzlemonkey

19-03-2009, 13:19

Good. I hope they all go to jail :tu:

fedupstill

19-03-2009, 13:24

More than a thousand hackers are using reconfigured cable modems to fraudulently access free high speed Virgin Media broadband, sources have revealed.

More than a thousand hackers are using reconfigured cable modems to fraudulently access free Virgin Media broadband, sources have revealed.

fixed ;)

joglynne

19-03-2009, 13:25

Many hackers, who trade details of their hacks in web fora, believe the modified modems are untraceable, but according to Virgin Media its new systems mean "that's absolutely not the case".

I would really like to believe Virgin Media's statement but until I see something actually happening to the hackers I am afraid I remain skeptical.

chuzzlemonkey

19-03-2009, 13:29

I would really like to believe Virgin Media's statement but until I see something actually happening to the hackers I am afraid I remain skeptical.

Agreed. They need to make an example of some people. If i were VM i'd sue all 1000 of them. Easy money :D

zing_deleted

19-03-2009, 13:31

gotta find em first

I seriously doubt they can track them to the house but we will see if they could do what they say on the press release why have they not done anything? hot air and false warning

Welshchris

19-03-2009, 13:34

Agreed. They need to make an example of some people. If i were VM i'd sue all 1000 of them. Easy money :D

chances are a lot of the people who are doing it are skint therefore Virgin would be wasting time and effort as they wouldnt get anything in return.

Chris

19-03-2009, 13:35

Agreed. They need to make an example of some people. If i were VM i'd sue all 1000 of them. Easy money :D

Obtaining services by deception is now a criminal offence ...

zing_deleted

19-03-2009, 13:38

Obtaining services by deception is now a criminal offence ...

and has been since 2006

horrorwood

19-03-2009, 13:58

1000?

I would of thought the real number is more like 10'000...

Anyway I heard people are getting 39mbit on docsis 1 using the 50mbit config. I don't know if they still get STM'd or not, but I bet they don't.

So if they are downloading a lot of stuff at 39mbit on docsis 1, surely that ****s up everyone elses service in the area? :o:

Stabhappy

19-03-2009, 14:06

Yes, I believe the docsis 1 downstream channels are capable of about 38mbit, which would mean an entire channel for one modem.

Zhadnost

19-03-2009, 14:11

It is, which means in my head something doesn't add up, here there are 2 DS channels, if they both support only 38Mbit, you'd have thought contention would be a lot more noticable. (considering how many people are on 20Mbit).

General Maximus

19-03-2009, 14:17

sweeeeeet, so the honest paying 20mbit users get their asses stm'd but the fake 38mbit users get away with it, sounds about right.

horrorwood

19-03-2009, 14:18

Hmm I just read a bit more and one person said he has done his mates as well.. so they are on the same UBR.

He said when he is downloading he can get 35 to 39mbit, and as soon as his friend starts they both get 18-20mbit.

So that is great, people are now really ****ing up the service I pay for.

Raistlin

19-03-2009, 14:20

The swear filter is there to catch the occasional use of bad language, not to mitigate the language of people that don't filter their thoughts before they post them to the forum.

Please try to moderate your own language, this is a family forum - debate isn't made any easier by the inclusion of multiple *s.

Thank you.

horrorwood

19-03-2009, 14:37

Sorry.

Looks like virgin need to completely disable their docsis 1.0/1.1 service then. Is that possible for them?

Bonglet

19-03-2009, 14:52

How many years have vm been saying we have defeated it yet?.

More rampant than ever and set to get worse in these times.

broadbandking

19-03-2009, 14:58

If Virgin have a system to stop cloned modem some hacker will work round and so forth, its a nevcer ending circle look at microsoft when they brought in validation it was worked round in 24hrs

horrorwood

19-03-2009, 15:01

If Virgin have a system to stop cloned modem some hacker will work round and so forth, its a nevcer ending circle look at microsoft when they brought in validation it was worked round in 24hrs

Docsis 3.0 has not been hacked. If virgin could change their whole network over to Docsis 3.0 then they would be ok at the moment.

I don't know if docsis 2.0 was hacked though.

Stabhappy

19-03-2009, 15:04

Docsis 2 is the platform with BPI+ which should atleast help with the cloned modems.

zing_deleted

19-03-2009, 15:06

If Virgin have a system to stop cloned modem some hacker will work round and so forth, its a nevcer ending circle look at microsoft when they brought in validation it was worked round in 24hrs

if this was the case

He said new routers in the firm's network were able to detect and take measures against cloned modems to ensure bandwidth is not stolen from legitimate customers. Many hackers, who trade details of their hacks in web fora, believe the modified modems are untraceable, but according to Virgin Media its new systems mean "that's absolutely not the case".

why isnt all the information in the hands of the police and doors being knocked before released to press? simple answer I think is they cant trace the modem to an address or there would be someone knocking and this clearly is not happening

Sirius

19-03-2009, 15:28

Why oh Why do VM allow this to happen. :mad:

Honest paying customers are the ones funding the **** bag thieving cloners.

Chris

19-03-2009, 15:39

if this was the case

why isnt all the information in the hands of the police and doors being knocked before released to press? simple answer I think is they cant trace the modem to an address or there would be someone knocking and this clearly is not happening

The greater the quantity of evidence, the better the chances of a conviction. It's possible that they are telling the truth, but allowing people to really dig themselves into a hole by letting them use a cloned modem for an extended period of time, against a backdrop of media reports about the issue, so they can't claim they were simply 'experimenting' or 'didn't know they were doing anything wrong'.

Turkey Machine

19-03-2009, 15:48

zing_deleted

19-03-2009, 15:58

The greater the quantity of evidence, the better the chances of a conviction. It's possible that they are telling the truth, but allowing people to really dig themselves into a hole by letting them use a cloned modem for an extended period of time, against a backdrop of media reports about the issue, so they can't claim they were simply 'experimenting' or 'didn't know they were doing anything wrong'.

I do not believe that is the case. If they can pin point to an address there is no arguement . Allowing them to use it for any period of time to prove it is a nonscense. I believe they simply can not pinpoint the address

graf_von_anonym

19-03-2009, 16:08

If something can be used it can be misused. As for tracking, a modem has to make itself visible to the UBR/CMTS to get services. There's a finite number of nodes that modem can be attached to, and then a similarly finite number of cabinets. One person, one van, one PDA, and a few hours work would identify the culprit. Whether VM have that man, van, and, er, word for minicomputer that ends with '-an' to spare I'm not certain. Then there's the burden of proof. VM can presumably say that a modem with [piece of information] performed [action] at a given time, but catching the villain with the modem still bearing that [piece of information], that's the rub.

That said, it's well known that people who steal internet services also pirate movies and music so by implication are terrorists. So VM will just set Jacqui Smith on them, and they'll be tried in the Court of Public Opinion by Harriet Harman. No evidence required!

BenMcr

19-03-2009, 16:34

VM allow this to happen because they're too incompetent in upgrading their network to enable tools that could help in this fight. If everyone moved to DOCSIS 2 (and I mean everyone), it'd be far more difficult to. The NTL 250/255/256 modems that are de-rigeur for 10 and 20Mbit are all DOCSIS 1/1.1/2 compatible, so why's the network not using it?
Only thing I would say to that is that Virgin are currently in the process of swapping modems below the 250/255/256 and the Motorola 5101E (I think) for both BB M and XL customers

Must mean something

Ignitionnet

19-03-2009, 16:40

Only thing I would say to that is that Virgin are currently in the process of swapping modems below the 250/255/256 and the Motorola 5101E (I think) for both BB M and XL customers

Must mean something

All those modems are hacked so that's a bit of a non-issue. Most of the earlier modems were 1.1 and 2.0 compatible anyways.

Incidentally it's DOCSIS 1.1 that has the enhanced BPI+ security. 2.0 just added extra upstream bandwidths.

telfordcable

19-03-2009, 16:48

I know few peoples in my area are hackers and use free tv service and free 50Mb with a secret hack (i mean it isn't fair on Telford awful UBR overload because of this hacker ruining us all who are paying for the service)

I hope they will go JAIL for 1 year ! (asking for a money back is pointless because I believe they are cheating Virgin Media, and cheating the benefit etc with never go to work) and don't have enough money to pay all the bills, virgin media expensive 50Mbps and sky too expensive!

They will find a way to hack it again if they all moving to docsis 2.0 and 3.0 like microsoft kept fighting the priacy and illegal peoples who steal microsoft product key by going to pcworld and look up the sticker product key and use it on their pc to activated it and never pay for it!

Ignitionnet

19-03-2009, 17:05

I did enjoy the article though.... if the security is all that then how exactly is this stuff allowed to happen in the first place?

Security team must be in a bit of a shock having to do something on the cable side until the bad PR fades away then they can go back to doing whatever it is they do, as it clearly isn't related to securing the cable network.

I did love the comments about finding the hackers. This is far from easy the modem could be at one of a thousand or more homes and the only way to tell which one is to disconnect node, then line extender / bridge amp, then taps until you find the tap the modem is on, then to disconnect the taps in turn until the modem goes offline - nothing at all to do with fancy new routers (which clearly aren't configured right else this hacking wouldn't be happening on them) or any of that rot it's purely work in the field.

telfordcable

19-03-2009, 17:41

Why on earth Virgin Media can track them down by checking their speed and what package are they on to?, if all matched same, that's fine. If it was not matched then they must know it must be a hacker cheat and trace them down by ip address or the customer home address by contract the police. I think they will NEVER do this unless someone is reported it.

Zhadnost

19-03-2009, 18:11

Like microsoft kept fighting the priacy and illegal peoples who steal microsoft product key by going to pcworld and look up the sticker product key and use it on their pc to activated it and never pay for it!

Bugger, wish I'd thought of that. :p:

---------- Post added at 18:11 ---------- Previous post was at 18:05 ----------

Is it not possible to centralise the DHCP service, then if someone tries to connect with an adapter address that's still got an active lease (but is connected to a different UBR), then lock down both units so that the customer needs to re-register using their billing details (like the autoregister service).

Actually in my head this doesn't even work unless you can do some really fancy things with the routers at the hubsite.

chickendippers

19-03-2009, 18:39

I know few peoples in my area are hackers and use free tv service and free 50Mb with a secret hack
Then report them to VM: 0800 096 7800.

Peter_

19-03-2009, 19:04

I know few peoples in my area are hackers and use free tv service and free 50Mb with a secret hack

They don't get 50Mb even with a hack as the modems they are using are only capable of around 38Mb throughput, but it still should not happen.

telfordcable

19-03-2009, 19:42

Then report them to VM: 0800 096 7800.

I had reported it. They never ask my name or address. They say many thanks and they will pass this onto the investigate team who will deal with it. I had told them of 7 named peoples with 7 addresses on it. They say many thanks for my help.

---------- Post added at 19:42 ---------- Previous post was at 19:41 ----------

I hope these 7 peoples won't be thinking it was ME of reported it or I could get attack from these peoples if they knew it was from me.

Peter_

19-03-2009, 19:44

I had reported it. They never ask my name or address. They say many thanks and they will pass this onto the investigate team who will deal with it. I had told them of 7 named peoples with 7 addresses on it. They say many thanks for my help.

---------- Post added at 19:42 ---------- Previous post was at 19:41 ----------

I hope these 7 peoples won't be thinking it was ME of reported it or I could get attack from these peoples if they knew it was from me.
They won't know unless you tell someone.

hackor_cable

19-03-2009, 21:32

And now the truth .This is just Virgins cover story for why the new 50meg users cant get 50meg

same story when they first introduced 20meg. they aint got enough band with and are very over subscribed

so they blame on the hackers again like with the 20meg

none are getting 38meg fasted reported is 25-34meg

most cant get pats 19meg as there is no dam bandwidth for anyone let alone for the hackers to steal

how do I know well thats because Im one of the hackers.

heres a speed test Download Speed: 11120 kbps (1390 KB/sec ) Upload Speed: 1579 kbps (197.4 KB/sec )
at least there is a decent upload

http://www.speedtest.net/result/433050157.png

:D:D:D

hacker stands back with flame proof suite on.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2009/03/31.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

Peter_

19-03-2009, 21:34

hacker stands back with flame proof suite on.
Is the couch 2 or 3 seater in your suite:D

horrorwood

19-03-2009, 21:36

Incidentally it's DOCSIS 1.1 that has the enhanced BPI+ security. 2.0 just added extra upstream bandwidths.

BPI+ is already hacked.

Stabhappy

19-03-2009, 21:37

Funny, I was under the impression that hackers were intelligent people who could actaully write and understand the programs/firmware they are using. Not downloading it and then claiming to be the dogs balls, so to speak.

hackor_cable

19-03-2009, 21:38

BPI+ is already hacked.

the new ambit 300`s are on there way to being hacked soon as well

but ill stick to the rule and wont give any info out

but just so you know from other side most hackers are paying for a coble modem anyway and the hacking is more for the game.

Stabhappy

19-03-2009, 21:39

And helping saturate the already packed channels. Bet you're paying for 2mb ^_^

hackor_cable

19-03-2009, 21:45

And helping saturate the already packed channels. Bet you're paying for 2mb ^_^

no 20meg in fact 50meg not officially out in area yet hence the crap down speed

---------- Post added at 21:45 ---------- Previous post was at 21:43 ----------

trust me virging handed the 50meg to hacker on a silver plate. even virgin aint that dumb.

they have done it for one of 2 resons or both

1 to get some free network testing done on the cheap
2 to have a scap goat to blame for crap speeds

zing_deleted

19-03-2009, 21:48

no 20meg in fact 50meg not officially out in area yet hence the crap down speed

---------- Post added at 21:45 ---------- Previous post was at 21:43 ----------

trust me virging handed the 50meg to hacker on a silver plate. even virgin aint that dumb.

they have done it for one of 2 resons or both

1 to get some free network testing done on the cheap
2 to have a scap goat to blame for crap speeds

did you write any of the code involved in this? if not you are not a hacker you are not even a script kiddie someone else has done the hard work

Gary L

19-03-2009, 21:50

I'm not one for being skeptic, but who approached who?
Hi this is Virgin we want to tell you that we have a thousand hackers stealing our customers bandwidth. can you print it please?
or did Reg approach them about why the speeds are still not up to scratch and this was the answer?

---------- Post added at 21:50 ---------- Previous post was at 21:48 ----------

to have a scap goat to blame for crap speeds

Crikey. I thought it was just me and everyone in the pub that thought that.

hackor_cable

19-03-2009, 21:56

did you write any of the code involved in this? if not you are not a hacker you are not even a script kiddie someone else has done the hard work

we cant discuss that here :D against the forum rules.

<Mod Edit: Do not even hint at how it can be done>

the truth is the virgin cable network is a secure as a Ho`s virginity

Hugh

19-03-2009, 22:06

we cant discuss that here :D against the forum rules.
erm, no - telling others how to do it is against the rules.

Admitting if you have the capabilities and skills isn't (to the best of my knowledge).

btw, I have found that most coding languages are fairly unforgiving re syntax errors - most alleged "h4x0r5" who post on forums don't seem capable of stringing a coherent sentence.;)

hackor_cable

19-03-2009, 22:11

erm, no - telling others how to do it is against the rules.

Admitting if you have the capabilities and skills isn't (to the best of my knowledge).

btw, I have found that most coding languages are fairly unforgiving re syntax errors - most alleged "h$x0r5" who post on forums don't seem capable of stringing a coherent sentence.;)

they only code really that has been done is <deleted>.

apart from new Censored "to keep in the rules" but to say more on the subject would be basically give a tutorial on how to clone a modem

horrorwood

19-03-2009, 22:12

Virgin should just centralise their CMTS infrastructure. All mac's checked in one place, if its a duplicate, you don't get online.

Job done.

Gary L

19-03-2009, 22:15

Virgin should just centralise their CMTS infrastructure. All mac's checked in one place, if its a duplicate, you don't get online.

Job done.

It's not a problem anyway really. they said the same time that 20MB was released and this was happening that they were able to detect and take measures against the modems. so all the 20MB aren't a problem anymore, and this new 1,000 odd should be sorted out before the end of next week.

Unless this is like the TV Licence people when they say they know who you are and where you live but they actually don't.

hackor_cable

19-03-2009, 22:21

It's not a problem anyway really. they said the same time that 20MB was released and this was happening that they were able to detect and take measures against the modems. so all the 20MB aren't a problem anymore, and this new 1,000 odd should be sorted out before the end of next week.

---------- Post added at 22:15 ---------- Previous post was at 22:14 ----------

Unless this is like the TV Licence people when they say they know who you are and where you live but they actually don't.

they lied they bricked a few modems <mod edit:deleted another hint of how to get round things>

and they were all back on with a few hours days they did not do anything really other than blow hot air.

there's more 20meg clones on now than ever

horrorwood

19-03-2009, 22:27

It's not a problem anyway really. they said the same time that 20MB was released and this was happening that they were able to detect and take measures against the modems. so all the 20MB aren't a problem anymore, and this new 1,000 odd should be sorted out before the end of next week.

Unless this is like the TV Licence people when they say they know who you are and where you live but they actually don't.

Nobody has ever been caught as far as I know, people were ripping off 20mbit all the time before 50mbit came out. So yes it probably is like the TV license people.

Its just that with 50mbit out there it is more of a problem now that one person with a hacked modem can max out a UBR... :(

---------- Post added at 22:27 ---------- Previous post was at 22:23 ----------

Btw "hackor cable" which is nice spelling.. but anyway, it is nice of you to post on here exposing your IP and admitting you are stealing service..

There are quite a few virgin media staff on here :dunce:

*sloman*

19-03-2009, 22:29

Sky TV can't be hacked - VM's can
BT BB can't be hacked - VM's can

i know they are different systems, so spend the money and change them!

Bring on BT's FTTC!!

VM go down no free BB for anyone!

To hackor_cable Are you 5? your spelling, punctuation, grammar is poor really poor.

hackor_cable

19-03-2009, 22:31

Nobody has ever been caught as far as I know, people were ripping off 20mbit all the time before 50mbit came out. So yes it probably is like the TV license people.

Its just that with 50mbit out there it is more of a problem now that one person with a hacked modem can max out a UBR... :(

---------- Post added at 22:27 ---------- Previous post was at 22:23 ----------

Btw "hackor cable" which is nice spelling.. but anyway, it is nice of you to post on here exposing your IP and admitting you are stealing service..

There are quite a few virgin media staff on here :dunce:

you wont max out a ubr with one modem lol

4 running on a quad wan load blanceing downloading news binaries may. :D:D:D

it aint the down stream virgin are worried about its the upstreem

telfordcable

19-03-2009, 22:33

If any one of you are hackers here, you are ruining and destroying our network like UBR overscription... do you think it fair to get away with it and pay nothing while the rest of us had to suffering from poor speed and paying for our service.

Just for once, please give yourself a favour - just give up the hack and start paying now and be fair to everyones.

Be careful if you post here, Virgin Media staff watch here and trace your IP address and track you down if you are a hacker here.

Gary L

19-03-2009, 22:37

MovedGoalPosts

19-03-2009, 22:40

The thread is reopened after a bit of cleaning up. The team is watching this closely, and will take action where breaches of our rules ocurr.

For those against hackers, don't take the rise and fall into the trap when some idiot admits, or claims, to be one. For those who claim to be a hacker, our rules are clear no discussion, not even a hint, or how it might be done.

hackor_cable

19-03-2009, 23:13

hi prob did not intend to break any rules m8

I was try not to give anything away personal I don't think I did I think you mistaken believed I had

but not problem.
Ill try to be more careful as It not my intention to do that.
and Im just here to give a view from the other side

If anyone want to ask a question that Im able to answer you but I cant getting into technical details.

buy am happy to discus but I not here to abuse of be abused.

Stabhappy

19-03-2009, 23:53

You're getting a free service with better quality (upload) than us paying customers, who are you to say that you will not accept critisism and abuse?

Problem is from the point of anyone with common sense here, you have comitted and are still commiting illegal acts, and to top it off you seem to have missed half of your school life (or atleast your English classes), so it litteraly gives the impression that the process of modifying a modem seems to be commonplace in society. Or at least, so dim-wittedly simple that any old Joe could do it.

Doesn't instill confidence.

hackor_cable

20-03-2009, 00:04

Gary L

20-03-2009, 00:07

Problem is from the point of anyone with common sense here, you have comitted and are still commiting illegal acts,

As we go through life, most of us commit illegal acts.

and to top it off you seem to have missed half of your school life (or atleast your English classes)

he might be disabled too. if he is we need to point out that he might not function as well as we might.

hackor_cable

20-03-2009, 00:31

As we go through life, most of us commit illegal acts.

he might be disabled too. if he is we need to point out that he might not function as well as we might.

ok im a bad bad man

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2009/03/30.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

Milambar

20-03-2009, 01:11

A lot of hackers (both black and white) make deliberate typing errors, its part of their culture, I know a few (unix/linux whitehats, no blackhats), they seem to think making themselves seem dumber than they are by typo's is part of the "game".

Don't judge their abilities by their grammar or typing errors.

hackor_cable

20-03-2009, 01:13

not me im just dislexsic and cant spell for ****
but Milambar is quit right dont mistake crap spelling and grammer with IQ

Zhadnost

20-03-2009, 08:21

For those wondering, as a curiousity I cloned a modem (well, I cloned my own modem onto a knackered one that was left here), and the process (and finding the instructions) is mind numbingly simple.

Since VM prefer to replace modems than to repair them, it's a shame the physical design of the modem doesn't make them more tamper-proof.

The only hardware you need is Admin edit (Chris): DO NOT discuss ANY aspect of how to do this. There will be no more warnings, infractions have already started flying for those who do not know when to quit.

FWIW, I only connected the cloned modem to the network to see if it worked, and then it wasn't at the same time as the modem it was cloning, and I didn't try messing with the config file. (I'm already on 20Mbit, so didn't see the point).

Ignitionnet

20-03-2009, 08:33

Is it not possible to centralise the DHCP service, then if someone tries to connect with an adapter address that's still got an active lease (but is connected to a different UBR), then lock down both units so that the customer needs to re-register using their billing details (like the autoregister service).

Actually in my head this doesn't even work unless you can do some really fancy things with the routers at the hubsite.

Perfectly possible to centralise DHCP service, infact work towards it has been done, and it's nothing fancy at all, IP Helper and Cable Helper addressing has been used since the beginning.

---------- Post added at 08:29 ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 ----------

BPI+ is already hacked.

Well Virgin's usage perhaps, mandatory BPI+ isn't. Only way to 'hack' BPI is with a perfect clone which tends to require physical access to the modem. That the Virgin deployment of BPI+ is a total arse doesn't reflect on the tech itself, which remains robust.

---------- Post added at 08:31 ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 ----------

Virgin should just centralise their CMTS infrastructure. All mac's checked in one place, if its a duplicate, you don't get online.

Job done.

DHCP infrastructure yes, CMTS infrastructure can't be centralised.

---------- Post added at 08:33 ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 ----------

you wont max out a ubr with one modem lol

4 running on a quad wan load blanceing downloading news binaries may. :D:D:D

it aint the down stream virgin are worried about its the upstreem

Try again genius :)

Connected to the non-50M network you will max a downstream which will cause service issues for the other 400+ people sharing it with you. On the 50M network you will max one of the D3 downstreams causing issues for anyone sharing it along with the 50M customers.

It is the downstream Virgin are worried about, even worst case your dubious upstream will eat 1/3rd of a channel, while your downstream will take everything that that channel has room for, causing instant congestion.

It is rather scary how little most cloners know about what they are doing, they just follow the recipe :dunce:

hackor_cable

20-03-2009, 09:59

For those wondering, as a curiousity I cloned a modem (well, I cloned my own modem onto a knackered one that was left here), and the process (and finding the instructions) is mind numbingly simple.

Since VM prefer to replace modems than to repair them, it's a shame the physical design of the modem doesn't make them more tamper-proof.

The only hardware you need is Admin: Removed
FWIW, I only connected the cloned modem to the network to see if it worked, and then it wasn't at the same time as the modem it was cloning, and I didn't try messing with the config file. (I'm already on 20Mbit, so didn't see the point).

so your a thief too then ?
Da law is Da law and all that plus you breached your terms and conditions then

and admitted it in a public forum where virgin can get your Ip form customer records.

not to bright if you ask me

Zhadnost

20-03-2009, 10:27

Yes and no, modifying the modem that doesn't belong to me is illegal, but since I cloned the modem from my own subscription, onto a retired modem that was from the same sub, and only ran it (for a short time I might add) at my own service level and only whilst the main modem was disconnected.

There is in effect no net loss to themselves (since even the modem I used was one they'd given me, albeit years ago, I'm not contributing to the pockets of those that steal modems from VM).

(actually at the time there was someone living here that was paying for a CM service that wasn't connected, so If I really wanted the extra bandwidth, I could have just hooked his modem up as well, although having 2 modems on a drop is probably a breach of their Terms, especially since it would involve putting a splitter in that wasn't provided by them).

I have always had the highest Tier short of having a business account (even back when 1Mbit costed £50/month), I very rarely get STM'd, I have a fair understanding of wireless engineering (technically speaking I worked on one of the early CM designs, although I certainly wasn't one of the brains behind it and I also worked on wireless networking kit long before there was a product available).

Basically I've done barely more than a customer who lpugs in an old modem when their new one stops working to see if it still works, the only difference is that mine did (and from the networks perspective, they probably couldn't discern it from the other modem being power-cycled).

This is hardly a case of, Honest guv, I downloaded the pictures for research purposes. :p

popper

21-03-2009, 00:52

Perfectly possible to centralise DHCP service, infact work towards it has been done, and it's nothing fancy at all, IP Helper and Cable Helper addressing has been used since the beginning.

---------- Post added at 08:29 ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 ----------

Well Virgin's usage perhaps, mandatory BPI+ isn't. Only way to 'hack' BPI is with a perfect clone which tends to require physical access to the modem. That the Virgin deployment of BPI+ is a total arse doesn't reflect on the tech itself, which remains robust.

---------- Post added at 08:31 ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 ----------

DHCP infrastructure yes, CMTS infrastructure can't be centralised.

---------- Post added at 08:33 ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 ----------

Try again genius :)

Connected to the non-50M network you will max a downstream which will cause service issues for the other 400+ people sharing it with you. On the 50M network you will max one of the D3 downstreams causing issues for anyone sharing it along with the 50M customers.

It is the downstream Virgin are worried about, even worst case your dubious upstream will eat 1/3rd of a channel, while your downstream will take everything that that channel has room for, causing instant congestion.

It is rather scary how little most cloners know about what they are doing, they just follow the recipe :dunce:

the interesting part for me is the fact they are getting a consistent long term 1628 Kbit/s on the upstream with a generic NTL250/VM255 and this config file on their connected DS1 UBR cards OC.

i wonder what the upstream settings are and weather the real paying (non DS3) customers might see this 1.5Mbit+ level of upstream some time sooner rather than later.

interestingly, this hacked ratio they appear to be getting on average is a lot better than anything officially available :angel:

Toto

21-03-2009, 01:05

the interesting part for me is the fact they are getting a consistent long term 1628 Kbit/s on the upstream with a generic NTL250/VM255 and this config file on their connected DS1 UBR cards OC.

i wonder what the upstream settings are and weather the real paying (non DS3) customers might see this 1.5Mbit+ level of upstream some time sooner rather than later.

interestingly, this hacked ratio they appear to be getting on average is a lot better than anything officially available :angel:

popper.............where you been sir??

popper

21-03-2009, 01:39

around, but this place has lost much of its tech appeal, (and nothing but bad news references of late not werth reading), so i have the remote machine log in, but dont read/help anywere as much as i did.

i did read your were's popper in the legal thread ,it made me ;) but couldnt be bothered (or find the time)to re-reference the masses of supporting law for the case like i used to post here, perhaps i might sometime if people cant use the CF search.

this thread grabs me for the obvious reasons, faster upstream etc, and i just read a DPI related story that might interest people in these inter related threads....

but it's OT for this thread, so if anyone wants to take sections and split it off into the threads, fine by me.

http://www.dailywireless.org/2009/03/20/deep-packet-inspection-explained/

http://www.freepress.net/node/49008
"...Chris Riley, policy counsel for Free Press and co-author of the paper. "DPI-enabled discrimination will reduce consumer choice and diminish the innovation at the edges that makes the Internet valuable. No short-term benefit can outweigh these long-term harms...."

http://www.freepress.net/files/Deep_Packet_Inspection_The_End_of_the_Internet_As_ We_Know_It.pdf

"

Another DPI equipment manufacturer, Allot, published a marketing brochure touting its ability to increase ARPU (Average Revenue Per User) through “Tiered Services” and “Quota Management.”
39

Allot claims their equipment “enables quota-based service plans that allow providers to meter and control individual use of applications and services.”

40 Another Allot document states:

The platform delivers high performance, reliability, application awareness and subscriber awareness, which are key components for implementing solutions to control infrastructure and operating costs, and for deploying value added services to increase total and per-subscriber revenues (ARPU).

41 Allot created a tool that “enables service providers to project potential revenues and profits from setting up a tiered service infrastructure.”42

Even more blatantly, one of the “Service Provider Needs” listed by the company is to “reduce the performance of applications with negative influence on revenues (e.g.

competitive VoIP services)."

Ignitionnet

21-03-2009, 12:29

Toto

21-03-2009, 12:29

Ahhh.........that's better. Damn, I may not entirely agree with you (popper) on everything, but there is something reassuring about your research :)

Ignitionnet

21-03-2009, 12:32

Ahhh.........that's better. Damn, I may not entirely agree with you (popper) on everything, but there is something reassuring about your research :)

The difference between opinions and facts is a bit of research, even if it can be phrased provocatively :)

Toto

21-03-2009, 13:36

The difference between opinions and facts is a bit of research, even if it can be phrased provocatively :)

Well said.

xocemp

21-03-2009, 19:05

popper

21-03-2009, 23:43

You might want to consider http://www.dslreports.com - good forum, people who know what they are talking about with regard to cable and doesn't have a couple of the posters who can make this forum a bit torturous at times ;)

Of course also lacks the VM focus but if you can do without that!

dslreports are ok but for the fact EVERYTHING is US or turns into nothing but US opinion all the time,the world is the USA AFATC, they did it again on this very VM thread story infact :dozey:

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Hackers-Nab-Free-30Mbps-Service-101472

im all for a little side or off topic POV in all threads to help pep a subject up or lead to other interesting things, but virtually every single thread post going to US POV is even to much for me :shocked:

Turkey Machine

22-03-2009, 02:22

Geez, it's all US on that one. :(

Ignitionnet

22-03-2009, 09:41

Geez, it's all US on that one. :(

It's all UK on this one :p: good to get an alternative opinion and view of how the 'other side' do things :)

Toto

22-03-2009, 11:32

It's all UK on this one :p: good to get an alternative opinion and view of how the 'other side' do things :)

I thought the deployment of engineers to work on each identified node connection was interesting. It's not practical in terms of a major operation to reduce cloning, but very interesting nonetheless.

Ignitionnet

22-03-2009, 12:32

I thought the deployment of engineers to work on each identified node connection was interesting. It's not practical in terms of a major operation to reduce cloning, but very interesting nonetheless.

It's what some operators do, however they tend not to have the cloning problems that VM have to begin with so it's a rarer thing.

US cablecos tend to also have a lot more engineers working in the field than Virgin Media which has to hire contractors to assist with 50Mbit rollouts and resegmentation for example.

Ignitionnet

22-03-2009, 21:03

Nice article here: http://www.cable360.net/ct/operations/bestpractices/15302.html

Large swathes of Virgin's network still have no BPI+ and remain vulnerable to simple cloning. Indeed DOCSIS 1.1 didn't touch the VM network until last year despite being ratified last century.

graf_von_anonym

23-03-2009, 00:10

The obvious solution is to put padlocks on the coaxial points which are wired to squeal if tampered with. Literal service lock in! I imagine subscribers would want to keep their notebooks out of sight of them though, perhaps with the aid of a small alcove.

More seriously, I'm not certain Virgin have the resources to track all those fiddling their cable. That story on DSL reports suggests you could probably do it with a guy and a van, but it would take ages. I'm sure they've got better things to do with those vans. That said, could they not just identify the MACs and put them all in a walled garden?

Ignitionnet

23-03-2009, 15:31

Horace

23-03-2009, 17:11

Obviously cutting off or catching every cloner with current infrastructure is out of the question but how about making examples of a few hundred, 10 court cases a month with lots of publicity would be enough to give the 'untouchables' the jitters and perhaps placate some disgruntled paying customers (me for example).

graf_von_anonym

24-03-2009, 02:43

Of course with projected staffing reductions of 2200 to come I imagine that we won't be seeing any new guys with vans being added. If you look at it as bluntly as possible I'm not actually sure it's worth Virgin doing anything about the folk stealing cable. That's not to say they'll condone or allow it, I hasten to add, but even at industry minimum wage through an outsourcer extra staff to track down culprits in numbers enough to make it efficient probably outweigh the negative influence on the network. In most cases, I'd say. So they'll look for a top end technical fix, and continue to bust the bigger distribution points for the hardware I imagine.

This is all part of the problem with reward mechanisms, of course. Virgin aren't rewarded for providing reliable internet services, nor are they punished properly for failing to do so*. What they exist to do is service their outstanding debt with operating "profits" that satisfy their shareholders. In much the same way that call centre staff aren't paid to help you but to answer calls in a particular way**. Warnings to thieves cost next to nothing, indeed, a well written PR piece fed into the press through an agency can often turn up in mainstream papers almost unedited, nevermind verbatim, even discounting the blogs and industry sites. If even a handful of them are scared off it's worth Virgin's time. As long as those who keep stealing their services don't cause too many problems then Virgin will tick along and catch them when they can. Maybe the important analogy is between shoplifting and grand theft auto: the former's almost inevitable, but can be controlled, forestalled, and prevented by careful stocking and systems design and you'll catch someone in the act every once in a while; the latter's drastic, expensive, and with the right equipment trackable. This might be running out of relevance, but for Virgin it's probably a balance sheet exercise.

Though this is just speculation, I hasten to add. I imagine if someone's dim enough to get caught Virgin will want them prosecuted.

* This is not an OFCOM thing. This is a "how capitalism works" thing.
** You cna't measure happiness, but you can track how often someone pees.

Ignitionnet

24-03-2009, 15:52

I would imagine you're quite right.

The irony is which would be most expensive, an engineer for a few hours to track down the hacker or the discounts that may have to be handed out to people whose service he's degrading?

graf_von_anonym

24-03-2009, 16:51

Ah, well, that's the ultimate spreadsheet question. I imagine that you'd need, what, 1000 customer's a month complaining in such a way as to be credited back for a month before you were starting to reach the cost of an engineer? Compared to the amount that I expect Virgin budgets for loss of service credits I think that'd probably be within normal statistical variation, so why entertain adding a new fixed cost when you can modify compensation guidelines. A lot of people are willing to accept how the Virgin network behaves as just one of those things.It's tremendously handy from a technical perspective to have a customer base largely inured to the occasional bit of system downtime...

thenry

03-01-2012, 21:18

so how far a long are we with this because my services are constantly suffering even if its slightly, it still is and thats a fact no matter what the knowledgeable guys say on here.

Stuart

03-01-2012, 21:38

Do you know it's illegal modems, or could it be congestion?

thenry

03-01-2012, 21:45

its clones Stuart, I've been enduring this for years.

Andrewcrawford23

03-01-2012, 21:47

its clones Stuart, I've been enduring this for years.

there no way in hell you can prove it clones, not saying it aint but it coudl easily be some people being seeds and eating up all teh bandwidth, docsis 3 make it very had for clones not impossible but hard and most of virgin network is docsis 3

Sirius

03-01-2012, 21:51

its clones Stuart, I've been enduring this for years.

Clones cannot do what you are claiming, They are not making your drop box tick and they are not pinging your modem. The old method of "sniffing" would not affect you connection in the way you have explained to me.

clones are no where near the problem they used to be FACT.

thenry

03-01-2012, 22:06

yes VM have done something about it but its no where near enough. yes docsis3 is more secure than the old stuff, the reason why i switched! but my services still suffer when clones are live.

why do my services max out with low pings when its not going on and once it kicks off pings triple, I loose a little chunk of my speed even during speedtests. my isolator ticks over (nothing to do with my personal power levels or cables) cabinets been checked, or so I've been told.

I assure you, honestly even with your knowledge its cloning causing this. monitor my area if you wish I'll happily give VM employees my details.

Stephen

04-01-2012, 00:07

I really don't think anyone is cloning your modem at all.

thenry

04-01-2012, 01:17

may be not mine but others? it doesn't make a difference to me tbh whether its mine or another customer, I've been on the back of being capped in the past for literally no use, thats just one issue. us paying customers paying the bills we get each month need to be protected at the very least, the net in itself is enough of a hazardous place, being vulnerable from the go isn't really a good start. again i agree VM have stepped up with this yet its still not enough.

the fact my bandwidth even on docsis3 is suffering albeit a little somehow coincidentally when their cloning, pings go insanely high and the constant, and I mean constant attempts which trigger my isolator to tick over is unnecessary to say the least, it shouldn't be happening and their abusing the network.

Nopanic

04-01-2012, 07:13

Peter_

04-01-2012, 07:26

so how far a long are we with this because my services are constantly suffering even if its slightly, it still is and thats a fact no matter what the knowledgeable guys say on here.
If you ring in the guys will probably confirm it is congestion as cloning is rather unlikely to be the cause, ring in and let us know what they say.

Ignitionnet

04-01-2012, 10:24

If you ring in the guys will probably confirm it is congestion as cloning is rather unlikely to be the cause, ring in and let us know what they say.

Given that cloned modems can cause congestion that's a bit of an odd statement.

Extremely unlikely to be due to cloning though, cloners are stuck on 10Mb connecting to the old CMTS only due to the newer ones requiring higher levels of security than just MAC address authentication.

Peter_

04-01-2012, 11:20

Given that cloned modems can cause congestion that's a bit of an odd statement.

Extremely unlikely to be due to cloning though, cloners are stuck on 10Mb connecting to the old CMTS only due to the newer ones requiring higher levels of security than just MAC address authentication.
I was waiting for you to comment so thank you.

thenry

04-01-2012, 13:06

The amount of cloners on the VM networks has dropped massively as I have explained. Again as other have pointed out your issue is not caused by cloning .. and the tick certainly isn't.

I don't know how secret VM want to be with the actual numbers so I'll not go into too much detail other than to say the teams detailing fraud are fantastic, they work very hard and its clearly shown in the numbers of people claiming illegal service.

no doubts in my mind that your statement regarding the drop in clones is true. What I don't agree with is being told that these 'tick' noises to my isolator are nothing to do with cloning attempts successful or unsuccessful. Unless its been a coincidence for the last 5 years, I find yours and others views of it as wrong.. bit rich coming from someone with next to no knowledge I know but having endured it for so long I think I've put 2 and 2 together and got 4 instead of 5.

If you ring in the guys will probably confirm it is congestion as cloning is rather unlikely to be the cause, ring in and let us know what they say.

its nothing to do with congestion. why is it now I've complained in public that my pings have lowered and speed is maxing out? I'll monitor it throughout the day as I do everyday. tick sounds at my faceplate/isolator is still making odd sounds but there not as loud as they were yesterday and previous to ranting yesterday. thank you.

Given that cloned modems can cause congestion that's a bit of an odd statement.

Extremely unlikely to be due to cloning though, cloners are stuck on 10Mb connecting to the old CMTS only due to the newer ones requiring higher levels of security than just MAC address authentication.

clones cause more problems than congestion, eating away like sewer rats

Andrewcrawford23

04-01-2012, 13:16

no doubts in my mind that your statement regarding the drop in clones is true. What I don't agree with is being told that these 'tick' noises to my isolator are nothing to do with cloning attempts successful or unsuccessful. Unless its been a coincidence for the last 5 years, I find yours and others views of it as wrong.. bit rich coming from someone with next to no knowledge I know but having endured it for so long I think I've put 2 and 2 together and got 4 instead of 5.

its nothing to do with congestion. why is it now I've complained in public that my pings have lowered and speed is maxing out? I'll monitor it throughout the day as I do everyday. tick sounds at my faceplate/isolator is still making odd sounds but there not as loud as they were yesterday and previous to ranting yesterday. thank you.

clones cause more problems than congestion, eating away like sewer rats

your hearing soudns from yoru face plate??????

and nothing has clicked with you sometihng might be worng there????

Ignitionnet

04-01-2012, 13:20

Sorry, wait a second, you think that cloned modems are causing 'tick' noises within your isolator?

Cloned modems are cable modems that have been reflashed with a different MAC address, nothing more.

Your isolator exists to prevent DC voltage from reaching your house. Cloned modems don't put DC voltage on the network, it would have to be a CPE that'd gone quite hideously wrong.

The two are absolutely nothing to do with each other. If you have something more substantive to dispute this with than because it stopped when you posted on Cable Forum (because clearly cloners reading Cable Forum know exactly where you live and that they're the ones causing your issues) or a vague feeling it'd be good to know.

If you've some technical explanation of how a cloned modem specifically is making your isolator click 24x7 to varying loudness and affecting your service at specific times of the day I'd be most open to reading it. I'm completely bemused.

Andrewcrawford23

04-01-2012, 13:22

thenry

04-01-2012, 13:26

my lines been checked, no faults found. so sniffers/force doesn't cause isolators to tick over? my neighbours does the same and they hasn't even got VM services.

Peter_

04-01-2012, 13:27

If your MAC address had been cloned then you would not be online, as Ignitionnet has said most cloned devices are now only on 10Mb to try and avoid security, are you on 10Mb if not you probably need a technician to check your Omnibox.

Andrewcrawford23

04-01-2012, 13:33

my lines been checked, no faults found. so sniffers/force doesn't cause isolators to tick over? my neighbours does the same and they hasn't even got VM services.

ah the age old my neighbours does the same..... you do realise that means nothing, the noise liek yoru describing ounds more like a eltrically fault, just cause one techincan says ther eno fault doesnt mean ther enot, if it something the techincan doesnt knwo then they might not know it isa fault you need a senior techincan to confirm

Mick Fisher

04-01-2012, 13:34

Isolators have been the source of problems with my VM services several times.

IIRC I think I am on my 3rd or 4th device.

The problems a faulty one can cause have proved to be various and sometimes intermittant. My opinion is that any out of the ordinary faults that defy logic may well be the result of a faulty isolator and/or any splitter in the line.

In any case, ticking noises from behind the faceplate are not normal so get it changed and then see what you have with regards to your connection. :)

Peter_

04-01-2012, 13:37

ah the age old my neighbours does the same..... you do realise that means nothing, the noise liek yoru describing ounds more like a eltrically fault, just cause one techincan says ther eno fault doesnt mean ther enot, if it something the techincan doesnt knwo then they might not know it isa fault you need a senior techincan to confirm
He needs to explain the fault to the agent on the phone and any agent worth their salt will send out a technician to check out the external cabling and Omnibox the is likely to be a short or corrosion causing his issue.

Andrewcrawford23

04-01-2012, 13:41

He needs to explain the fault to the agent on the phone and any agent worth their salt will send out a technician to check out the external cabling and Omnibox the is likely to be a short or corrosion causing his issue.

true but if the techincan after getting told at the custoemr premises says there no fault it generally they dnt knwo wha tthere doing ;) doesnt matter if tech support book it for a omnibox check wouldnt be the fist time i have seen the enigneer not bother to do what is on there job sheet or there job sheet say different

thenry

04-01-2012, 13:45

Peter_

04-01-2012, 13:47

true but if the techincan after getting told at the custoemr premises says there no fault it generally they dnt knwo wha tthere doing ;) doesnt matter if tech support book it for a omnibox check wouldnt be the fist time i have seen the enigneer not bother to do what is on there job sheet or there job sheet say different
I always state Omnibox issue check and replace and if its a repeat book a Principal Engineer, job done.

---------- Post added at 13:47 ---------- Previous post was at 13:46 ----------

agents are useless, sorry masque but 3 didn't even know what a faceplate/isolator was so I gave up and aimed at those up top at VM.
They are covered in our training so they should all know what they are no excuses plus we can handle them as well, not sure about offshore though.

Andrewcrawford23

04-01-2012, 13:49

agents are useless, sorry masque but 3 didn't even know what a faceplate/isolator was so I gave up and aimed at those up top at VM. clones were found but sniffers continue! let me repeat, this does not happen when there not cloning neither does my services suffer. don't ask me how I know, I'm not exactly going to be told how the network works?!

we have separate cables coming from the cabinet into each property, no splitter outside anywhere from the cab as far I know. as soon as it enters my property its into the isolator which is new, recently swapped for the old one then to a splitter then to my SH.

post what your problkem is on the virign media forums i think they will get a engineer out that will do the job for you ;)

noise formt eh isolater box are not cause by clone modems regardless what you might been told at the top ;) no offense but the ones at the top probally know less that the ones at the bottom which is common in mos companies. the problem is you need the isolater an omnibox changed and the noises will go away and the servie better, and if your neighbour one has became corruded that causes ther enoise to

thenry

04-01-2012, 13:53

They are covered in our training so they should all know what they are no excuses plus we can handle them as well, not sure about offshore though.

they were UK agents, I persisted with getting to UK based CS.. they didn't have a scooby and to top it 1 put me on hold then said we'll charge you for a new one.. huh?!

post what your problkem is on the virign media forums i think they will get a engineer out that will do the job for you ;)

noise formt eh isolater box are not cause by clone modems regardless what you might been told at the top ;) no offense but the ones at the top probally know less that the ones at the bottom which is common in mos companies. the problem is you need the isolater an omnibox changed and the noises will go away and the servie better, and if your neighbour one has became corruded that causes ther enoise to

I have a new isolator already. swapped over a month or two ago. btw one guy i've been talking to up top knows what he's talking about... and no he's not God!

Ignitionnet

04-01-2012, 13:56

agents are useless, sorry masque but 3 didn't even know what a faceplate/isolator was so I gave up and aimed at those up top at VM. clones were found but sniffers continue! let me repeat, this does not happen when there not cloning neither does my services suffer. don't ask me how I know, I'm not exactly going to be told how the network works?!

we have separate cables coming from the cabinet into each property, no splitter outside anywhere from the cab as far I know. as soon as it enters my property its into the isolator which is new, recently swapped for the old one then to a splitter then to my SH.

If you could explain to me how you think someone sniffing MAC addresses off the network, which is done with a cable modem and a PC behind it with an Ethernet card in promiscuous mode, is physically affecting your DC isolator that'd be great.

Do bear in mind that in order for a device to actually push DC to your isolator they would have to at very least be on the same cable line or same cabinet as you, if not same tap.

Thanks.

Peter_

04-01-2012, 13:56

they were UK agents, I persisted with getting to UK based CS.. they didn't have a scooby and to top it 1 put me on hold then said we'll charge you for a new one.. huh?!

I have a new isolator already. swapped over a month or two ago. btw one guy i've been talking to up top knows what he's talking about... and no he's not God!
As Andrew says post on the community forum and they will get it sorted, no UK agent especially at the Albert Dock should not know what an isolator or an Omnibox is as they are shown them in training.

thenry

04-01-2012, 14:03

If you could explain to me how you think someone sniffing MAC addresses off the network, which is done with a cable modem and a PC behind it with an Ethernet card in promiscuous mode, is physically affecting your DC isolator that'd be great.

Do bear in mind that in order for a device to actually push DC to your isolator they would have to at very least be on the same cable line or same cabinet as you, if not same tap.

Thanks.

their on the same cab, how do you think i've put 2and2 together and got 4. thieving -MOD EDIT-

As Andrew says post on the community forum and they will get it sorted, no UK agent especially at the Albert Dock should not know what an isolator or an Omnibox is as they are shown them in training.

waste of time, i think i recall posting already and having an attenuator fitted :LOL:

PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO GET ROUND THE SWEAR FILTER.

Stephen

04-01-2012, 14:04

There is no way this is what you seem to think it is.

If there is clicking or noises coming from anything electrical then there may be an issue with the power supply or earthing of the devices.

Certainly no clones or sniffers involved

---------- Post added at 14:04 ---------- Previous post was at 14:03 ----------

their on the same cab, how do you think i've put 2and2 together and got 4. thieving -MOD EDIT-

I think you got 469428 tbh.

thenry

04-01-2012, 14:09

I think you got 469428 tbh.

sorry

Andrewcrawford23

04-01-2012, 14:10

their on the same cab, how do you think i've put 2and2 together and got 4. thieving -MOD EDIT-

waste of time, i think i recall posting already and having an attenuator fitted :LOL:

PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO GET ROUND THE SWEAR FILTER.

i think you got 22 not 4 nor 5 :) i suggest you go doa a small course in eltrical you will fidn the noise your experiaince is caused by a eltrical fault of some sort, modem sniffing will in no way causea a noise if it was that simple the clones would be destroyed :D

Peter_

04-01-2012, 14:11

If you refuse to have anyone look at it then just forget about it as you obviously do not want to follow the advice given.

thenry

04-01-2012, 14:15

Chris

04-01-2012, 14:23

no offence and I sincerely mean that but the advice given will get me nowhere. what will get me somewhere is if my connection and area are monitored, evidence is gathered and then in the very least, cables pulled from the cab.

Your problem is, you have already decided that cloning is the problem so you refuse to listen to anyone who won't agree with you ... Even though some of them are really rather well-informed Virgin Media staff with access to a lot more info on cloning issues than you are.

Perhaps you need to take a deep breath, open your mind and listen to the experts who want to help you.

Andrewcrawford23

04-01-2012, 14:23

no offence and I sincerely mean that but the advice given will get me nowhere. what will get me somewhere is if my connection and area are monitored, evidence is gathered and then in the very least, cables pulled from the cab.

and the mointoring shows nothing what then? will you accept yoru wrong adn that you do not know whata cloned modem is if you saw it? ill happily admit im wrong if youg et the rpvoe ti is and it fixes yoru problem, no jsut finding oput there clones and geting them puleld wont statifiy me your connection will have to be better since yoru claim it caused by clones

Stuart

04-01-2012, 14:27

no offence and I sincerely mean that but the advice given will get me nowhere. what will get me somewhere is if my connection and area are monitored, evidence is gathered and then in the very least, cables pulled from the cab.

The advice given will not get you anywhere as you are refusing to follow it. We have people with years of experience in cable networks telling you in this thread that MAC sniffing will not cause the problems you describe, but you appear to be telling them they are wrong.

A clicking noise in the box does not indicate that there are cloned modems in the area. It indicates an electrical fault somewhere on the network.

thenry

04-01-2012, 14:31

Your problem is, you have already decided that cloning is the problem so you refuse to listen to anyone who won't agree with you ... Even though some of them are really rather well-informed Virgin Media staff with access to a lot more info on cloning issues than you are.

Perhaps you need to take a deep breath, open your mind and listen to the experts who want to help you.

I respect yours and others opinions, its the fact I've been down that route many times and its been said nothings wrong :confused: my cables were checked, a new isolator in place, attenuator- head engineer came out apparently.

and the mointoring shows nothing what then? will you accept yoru wrong adn that you do not know whata cloned modem is if you saw it? ill happily admit im wrong if youg et the rpvoe ti is and it fixes yoru problem, no jsut finding oput there clones and geting them puleld wont statifiy me your connection will have to be better since yoru claim it caused by clones

clones have been booted already but they keep coming back as they would.. vermin on VMs network!

---------- Post added at 14:31 ---------- Previous post was at 14:29 ----------

The advice given will not get you anywhere as you are refusing to follow it. We have people with years of experience in cable networks telling you in this thread that MAC sniffing will not cause the problems you describe, but you appear to be telling them they are wrong.

A clicking noise in the box does not indicate that there are cloned modems in the area. It indicates an electrical fault somewhere on the network.

again I don't mean to come across like that, I fully respect you all. I'm constantly reading trying to learn more via you guys.

right an electrical fault somewhere on the network.. wouldn't that be flagged on the system when I was told the area had been looked at?

Andrewcrawford23

04-01-2012, 14:36

I respect yours and others opinions, its the fact I've been down that route many times and its been said nothings wrong :confused: my cables were checked, a new isolator in place, attenuator- head engineer came out apparently.

clones have been booted already but they keep coming back as they would.. vermin on VMs network!

---------- Post added at 14:31 ---------- Previous post was at 14:29 ----------

again I don't mean to come across like that, I fully respect you all. I'm constantly reading trying to learn more via you guys.

right an electrical fault somewhere on the network.. wouldn't that be flagged on the system when I was told the area had been looked at?

no a eletrical fault wouldnt flag up easily unless teh eltrical fault is huge for example say somehow a live wire from yoru street lighting has touched the otuide of the coaxial it will affect to the cabinent and you but it wont neccesary show up asa fault because it not blow anything (that a daft example but i hope what i amt rying to covey is understood) but say a high voltage line touch the cableint the systme woudl detect af ault then (againt daft example but hopefully convey wha ti mean)

thenry

04-01-2012, 14:44

no a eletrical fault wouldnt flag up easily unless teh eltrical fault is huge for example say somehow a live wire from yoru street lighting has touched the otuide of the coaxial it will affect to the cabinent and you but it wont neccesary show up asa fault because it not blow anything (that a daft example but i hope what i amt rying to covey is understood) but say a high voltage line touch the cableint the systme woudl detect af ault then (againt daft example but hopefully convey wha ti mean)

am I right in believing the system sucks then? as much as you don't want every single little thing being flagged annoying the hell out of the 'maintainers' doesn't it need upgrading to know more, the option of knowing and having more control? is this part of the cab upgrades going on?

Sirius

04-01-2012, 14:44

Let me say something here. Never and i mean NEVER in 18 years as a engineer for various cable companies including as a Senior broadband engineer and now as an access networks planning engineer have i seen a cloned modem or sniffer make a splitter or attenuator click. Its IMPOSSIBLE.

Thenry if you are certain that its sniffing and clones that are making you slow down and making your drop box click then give us the technical evidence as to why.

thenry

04-01-2012, 14:48

Let me say something here. Never and i mean NEVER in 18 years as a engineer for various cable companies including as a Senior broadband engineer and now has a access planning engineer have i seen a cloned modem or sniffer make a splitter or attenuator click. Its INPOSSIBLE.

Henry if you are certain that its sniffing and clones that are making you slow down and making your drop box click then give us the technical evidence as to why.

send me tools to obtaining info for you and I'll do it :) seriously its not a coincidence that when these people are cloning, all hell lets loose. its been going on for years not just for a couple of days.

Andrewcrawford23

04-01-2012, 14:51

send me tools to obtaining info for you and I'll do it :) seriously its not a coincidence that when these people are cloning, all hell lets loose. its been going on for years not just for a couple of days.

no one denies that coing can cause problems with congestion etc, but there no way in hel does it cause clickign it eltrical

as for the system sucks no, because there tehcincally a eltrical signal there at all times but very low, as i said my example was crap but it tried to issulrate if tia small eletrical fault it wont be seen but if it huge it will

Sirius

04-01-2012, 14:53

send me tools to obtaining info for you and I'll do it :) seriously its not a coincidence that when these people are cloning, all hell lets loose. its been going on for years not just for a couple of days.

How do you know they are doing it if you dont have the tools ?????

---------- Post added at 14:53 ---------- Previous post was at 14:52 ----------

send me tools to obtaining info for you and I'll do it :) seriously its not a coincidence that when these people are cloning, all hell lets loose. its been going on for years not just for a couple of days.

I said technical reasons, Come on you are ignoring the experience of engineers so you must have a better understanding of the system than they do. give us a technical breakdown of how the signal on the coax can make your connection click ????

Peter_

04-01-2012, 15:14

no offence and I sincerely mean that but the advice given will get me nowhere. what will get me somewhere is if my connection and area are monitored, evidence is gathered and then in the very least, cables pulled from the cab.
No offence taken, but you are ignoring the help offered by people with the knowledge and Sirius is a prime example if he says the clicking has nothing to do with cloning then he is right.

Get an engineer out to sort it as otherwise you will continue to hear that click even in your sleep.

thenry

04-01-2012, 15:20

no one denies that coing can cause problems with congestion etc, but there no way in hel does it cause clickign it eltrical

as for the system sucks no, because there tehcincally a eltrical signal there at all times but very low, as i said my example was crap but it tried to issulrate if tia small eletrical fault it wont be seen but if it huge it will

well mine seems to be making a click noise and again its when these people are cloning.

i understand but surely the ability to read more can be implemented. will this come with the cab upgrades?

How do you know they are doing it if you dont have the tools ?????

---------- Post added at 14:53 ---------- Previous post was at 14:52 ----------

I said technical reasons, Come on you are ignoring the experience of engineers so you must have a better understanding of the system than they do. give us a technical breakdown of how the signal on the coax can make your connection click ????

i've never cloned, i've been a cable customer for years i don't need to clone neither have i used any tools to know first hand, what they do. i have done a bit of research reading and speaking to a head or two regarding what I'm enduring which just adds to my 'theory' if you like on this.. i wish i could say i've been had and a simple fix can fix this, some electrical fault but i assure you that isn't the case. feel free to get cab upgrades in motion here then monitor. like i've said already, clones have been booted already to which they come back sniffing, forcing themselves back onto the network. improvements still need to be made.

btw i know whos doing it, its obvious to anyone who persists with knowing whats up rather giving up and letting thieves win, the reason why I'm still with VM, why should I move, a paying customer for years with a company i like because of those wanting to fraud that very company and its customers! 2+2=4 not 5 :)

seriously to you this is insane, to me after years of endurance and knowing whats going on its true.

Andrewcrawford23

04-01-2012, 15:23

Chris

04-01-2012, 15:24

thenry

04-01-2012, 15:25

No offence taken, but you are ignoring the help offered by people with the knowledge and Sirius is a prime example if he says the clicking has nothing to do with cloning then he is right.

Get an engineer out to sort it as otherwise you will continue to hear that click even in your sleep.

I'm listening but they say nothings wrong which is a bit strange.. so am I then meant to believe this is normal? as mentioned already the line carries very little power so whats going on. whats frustrating is Andrewcrawford23 says the system wont be able to detect these clicks so how are you meant to prove me wrong? how am i suppose to prove myself wrong? i'll wear a tin foil hat if i'm wrong, seriously. VM cannot detect it which sucks. you yourself not long ago mentioned cab upgrades and what VM can do with the improvements.. upgrade the area i live in and then monitor.. its not like the cabs aren't going to turn up anyway.

Chris

04-01-2012, 15:30

How do you know when people are cloning?

thenry

04-01-2012, 15:35

i cant say if cab upgrades would detect eletrical faults not my field

but i have tried to help and poitn you where yoru fault really is but since your adment it cloning then good luck i hope oyu get ti fixed

i appreciate your and everyone elses help, really i do but i keep getting told theres nothing wrong which just pushes me back to my original 'theory'.

How do you know when people are cloning?

faceplate/isolator ticks over, BB glitches, pings go insane, speed doesn't max out... all of which can be as a result of something else but it isnt. areas not overly populated, its not congestion via paid services thats a fact.. congestion via thieves probably. btw to throw you off your chairs.. i know whos doing it and no i wont shoot myself into the foot and state who on a public forum :)

pabscars

04-01-2012, 15:39

i appreciate your and everyone elses help, really i do but i keep getting told theres nothing wrong which just pushes me back to my original 'theory'.

faceplate/isolator ticks over, BB glitches, pings go insane, speed doesn't max out... all of which can be as a result of something else but it isnt. areas not overly populated, its not congestion via paid services thats a fact.. congestion via thieves probably. btw to throw you off your chairs.. i know whos doing it and no i wont shoot myself into the foot and state who on a public forum :)

A pair of wire cutter's would sort that out quick smart ;)

thenry

04-01-2012, 15:40

A pair of wire cutter's would sort that out quick smart ;)

trust me I've considered it but I'm not going to let them thieves win.

Peter_

04-01-2012, 15:43

This thread is just going around in circles.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2012/01/30.gif

Andrewcrawford23

04-01-2012, 15:47

This thread is just going around in circles.

]

seriously take that off when i looked at it i felt liek i was being hyptosied

vmfriend

04-01-2012, 15:47

Surely if you know who's doing it and it's impacting you in a negative way you would want to report it ?

At a basic level a PM to one of the Virgin guys on here ?

Chris

04-01-2012, 15:47

faceplate/isolator ticks over, BB glitches, pings go insane, speed doesn't max out... all of which can be as a result of something else but it isnt.)

how do you know the faults you have described are caused by cloners?

Peter_

04-01-2012, 15:49

Surely if you know who's doing it and it's impacting you in a negative way you would want to report it ?

At a basic level a PM to one of the Virgin guys on here ?
Most of us have that turned off or we get hammered.:erm:

Sirius

04-01-2012, 15:50

vmfriend

04-01-2012, 15:52

Most of us have that turned off or we get hammered.:erm:

Oh ok well there must be a way of reporting suspected fraud to VM via an official channel ?

Hugh

04-01-2012, 15:52

He doesn't,

Its impossible for it to happen. A modem cannot make another persons connector plate click not in a month of sundays.What if he had teams of highly-trained insects who could tap-dance on the connector plate?

Andrewcrawford23

04-01-2012, 15:52

He doesn't,

Its impossible for it to happen. A modem cannot make another persons connector plate click not in a month of sundays.

it could :p for one short while for about 0.00000001 second but the psoter wouldnt be here to tell the tale :p because it bea modme blowing up right next to his plate causinga clicking jsut before it blows up to and then kills the poster :p

but in reality no it wouldnt but i aint goign to try help anymore jsut read the posts :D

Sirius

04-01-2012, 15:53

OK OK

Install this and the cloners will go away

http://www.eclectech.co.uk/mindcontrol.php

thenry

04-01-2012, 15:59

how do you know the faults you have described are caused by cloners?

He doesn't,

Its impossible for it to happen. A modem cannot make another persons connector plate click not in a month of sundays.

please trust me on this, its cloners and I know whos doing it. years of endurance here mate, please just trust me on this even with your high level of experience and knowledge.

Surely if you know who's doing it and it's impacting you in a negative way you would want to report it ?

At a basic level a PM to one of the Virgin guys on here ?

Most of us have that turned off or we get hammered.:erm:

Oh ok well there must be a way of reporting suspected fraud to VM via an official channel ?

have done, I've even spoken to one of the heads of security.. modems have been booted but they carry on.

What if he had teams of highly-trained insects who could tap-dance on the connector plate?

it could :p for one short while for about 0.00000001 second but the psoter wouldnt be here to tell the tale :p because it bea modme blowing up right next to his plate causinga clicking jsut before it blows up to and then kills the poster :p

but in reality no it wouldnt but i aint goign to try help anymore jsut read the posts :D

OK OK

Install this and the cloners will go away

http://www.eclectech.co.uk/mindcontrol.php

i'm pleading for you to trust me on this. i'm a long term cable customer, i've not joined here to ruin some form of rep. i'm here as a supporter and customer of VM.

Chris

04-01-2012, 16:08

please trust me on this, its cloners and I know whos doing it.

Right. So it's cloners because you say it is.

Case closed.

I think most people who are still bothering to read any of this will be able to form their own conclusions now.

Sirius

04-01-2012, 16:12

Right. So it's cloners because you say it is.

Case closed.

I think most people who are still bothering to read any of this will be able to form their own conclusions now.

Ok i have had enough, I am out of this thread i have other things to do like count the pixies in my garden.

MovedGoalPosts

04-01-2012, 16:46

Ok i have had enough, I am out of this thread i have other things to do like count the pixies in my garden.

That's no way to refer to Damien C and Scary :angel:

Sirius

04-01-2012, 17:09

That's no way to refer to Damien C and Scary :angel:

:LOL:

vmfriend

04-01-2012, 17:43

Roughly how many pixies are there and are they cloning modems ?

thenry

04-01-2012, 17:49

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2012/01/29.gif

Peter_

04-01-2012, 18:08

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2012/01/113.jpg

Hugh

04-01-2012, 18:39

This is getting off-topic - desist.

General Maximus

04-01-2012, 18:46

This is getting off-topic - desist.

or be assimiliated http://www.messengersmiley.com/images/emoticons/aliens/Aliens_borgsmile.gif

Begall

04-01-2012, 21:31

Feel a little embarrassed for thenry to be honest. Was half expecting him to have started on about gang stalking or something.

Stephen

05-01-2012, 09:41

So the general consensus is that all VM staff here including a few network folk have said its impossible for another modem to cause the clicking noises and other issues.

However Thenry is convinced that its happening and that he knows who is 'causing' it.

Is the clicking perhaps in his mind?

Peter_

05-01-2012, 09:49

Andrewcrawford23

05-01-2012, 11:57

there is one thing that coudl cause the clicking, but he have no internet access at all if that was the case, the power levels owuld need to be about 200-300db and that would in thoery causea clicking noise but i think your right there is two options, either there isa clone modme causing him problems an the clickign noise is in his head not impossible to have undiagnosied mental problem (to original poster i am not claiming you do just thoerising the possabilties around why you could tyhink your gttting noises from cloning) or there clonign going on effecitng his speeds and pings but in additon to this he has omnibox/attentuor problem that is causing some sort of eltrical interferences that is causing the clicking noise to

there might be 3rd or 4th if you take the power levels as a possabilty to caus eit, the 4th would be some sort of animal trapped under the floor boards i am makigna assumption the proterty of his neighbour is conencted and there might be hole in the underboards underd hi floor between the walls so cause a click noise (again just thoery very uinlikely)

Sirius

05-01-2012, 12:08

there is one thing that coudl cause the clicking, but he have no internet access at all if that was the case, the power levels owuld need to be about 200-300db and that would in thoery causea clicking noise

Sorry it's still impossible as the amplifiers are incapable of producing those levels ever. I still say it is totally impossible, Others have said its impossible. I had a chat with a local Senior Engineer this morning who after he asked me if this is an early April fools joke said its impossible. But hey Thenry is far more knowledgeable about our network than those who work on it and design some of it. Maybe we should give him a job :).

Andrewcrawford23

05-01-2012, 12:24

thenry

05-01-2012, 15:30

your saying its impossible yet thats whats going on here, i stand by everything i've said will happily wear a tin foil hat if i'm wrong. the fact its been said VM haven't got the system to find out what exactly is going on here leaves us at loggers heads. how about VM do some upgrades which will reach me at some point then we'll know what exactly is going on? apologies but techs who have come out to me haven't got a clue, agents I've spoken to don't even know what a faceplate or isolator is, who knows how they think customers get VM services :rolleyes:

anyway as mentioned already, i respect you all but this is what i'm saying it is.

Peter_

05-01-2012, 15:37

Sorry it's still impossible as the amplifiers are incapable of producing those levels ever. I still say it is totally impossible, Others have said its impossible. I had a chat with a local Senior Engineer this morning who after he asked me if this is an early April fools joke said its impossible. But hey Thenry is far more knowledgeable about our network than those who work on it and design some of it. Maybe we should give him a job :).

---------- Post added at 15:37 ---------- Previous post was at 15:36 ----------

The above post says it all and this is from the professionals.

your saying its impossible yet thats whats going on here, i stand by everything i've said will happily wear a tin foil hat if i'm wrong. the fact its been said VM haven't got the system to find out what exactly is going on here leaves us at loggers heads. how about VM do some upgrades which will reach me at some point then we'll know what exactly is going on? apologies but techs who have come out to me haven't got a clue, agents I've spoken to don't even know what a faceplate or isolator is, who knows how they think customers get VM services :rolleyes:

anyway as mentioned already, i respect you all but this is what i'm saying it is.

Stephen

05-01-2012, 15:49

Sirius

05-01-2012, 15:59

You better get that tin foil hat ready then.

LMAO, so you respect everyone but are totally ignoring every single person as you have made up your own mind as to what the buzzing or ticking noise is. :rolleyes:
Maybe he has been watching rent a ghost :)

thenry

05-01-2012, 16:32

I'm only stating whats happening.. monitor the area and prove me wrong.

tweetiepooh

05-01-2012, 16:36

Maybe the click is causing the other issues?

There is a fraud phone number though this is quoted for TV fraud I'm sure they can help. Google for Virgin Media Fraud Line.

Andrewcrawford23

05-01-2012, 16:37

I'm only stating whats happening.. monitor the area and prove me wrong.

but you dnt get it, you have not proved how you knwo it happening, you report slow speeds, bad pign etc, lets ingore the faceplate, there is at least 10 things that can cause that mostly all virgin side some user side, but your ust stating something that you have no acutal facts to back up with other that a thoery or a feeling, no one denies there cloned modems just no one can get how someone whop admits to have no knowledge in the subject can just come out with cloned modem are causing my problem without facts. if we start thinking of your noise then it ven mroe fun cause we love to see how you can prove it doign it since everyone here with knowledge knows it isnt

prove us all wrong and tell us what prove you have for it, if it just thoery or feeling sorry jsut accept yoru wrong

thenry

05-01-2012, 16:43

Peter_

05-01-2012, 16:46

i can't state that in public. i have no real technical knowledge but i have other info.. all of which has been forwarded still nothing though! so is this normal? for a isolator to tick over? obviously no major faults have been flagged or this would have been fixed years ago.
No one is denying that you have no issue but it is unlikely to be the one you think it is and you need to accept that and get an engineer out to check out your Omnibox.

thenry

05-01-2012, 16:52

there is no omnibox.. cables come from the cab directly into the property into the isolator then onto my services...

power levels...

0.8
1.2
0.8
0.4

Andrewcrawford23

05-01-2012, 16:58

there is no omnibox.. cables come from the cab directly into the property into the isolator then onto my services...

power levels...

mmmm now i am wondering if your could be the cloned modem ;)

if that is true the installer who put your services at first screwed up and it needs to be redone this is what probally cause of most of hte your problem, will it be really hard to get tech out get it all done right and then prove us all wrong that yoru noise is still there and the problem still there then youc an claim it a clone

Peter_

05-01-2012, 17:02

there is no omnibox.. cables come from the cab directly into the property into the isolator then onto my services...

I think we may have the cause a poor installation, your isolator should be outside in the Omnibox not in your house.

thenry

05-01-2012, 17:05

Andrewcrawford23

05-01-2012, 17:25

If I'm a clone I'll happily go to Hook and wear a tin foil hat.

---------- Post added at 17:04 ---------- Previous post was at 17:03 ----------

no because its a flat, no splitter or omnibox as far as I know, each property has its own cable directly from the cab.

---------- Post added at 17:05 ---------- Previous post was at 17:04 ----------

how about one of you VM employees takes my details, addy etc. to check? whos on here thats uptop able to get up info on cables etc. no need to post glory details on here, just so you know and can figure out whats going. i'm telling you the truth techs been called out haven't got a clue.

i was goign to suggest that and since your willing to prove we are all wrong, i am sure masque or one the other can take your details and look to get you one book tomorrow maybe better masque since he is probally the best techincally knowledge here with access to book one and can put the best details onto the tech booking for you

thenry

05-01-2012, 17:29

they need to first take a look at how cables are pulled, the area is wired up... surely theres archives available? i'm not having a tech booked to see him scratch his head.

Peter_

05-01-2012, 17:31

i was goign to suggest that and since your willing to prove we are all wrong, i am sure masque or one the other can take your details and look to get you one book tomorrow maybe better masque since he is probally the best techincally knowledge here with access to book one and can put the best details onto the tech booking for you
It would be a breach of DPA so not possible and not something I would risk while awaiting my redundancy payout, nothing personal but the community forum is the way to go as the guys on there are our present 2nd line soon to be replaced in the same way that I am.

Andrewcrawford23

05-01-2012, 17:35

It would be a breach of DPA so not possible and not something I would risk while awaiting my redundancy payout, nothing personal but the community forum is the way to go as the guys on there are our present 2nd line soon to be replaced in the same way that I am.

where the hell is 2nd lien going i thought virgin never wanted to move 2nd lien form liverpool

Stephen

05-01-2012, 17:40

Have you at least got the VM white splitter box in your flat?

---------- Post added at 17:40 ---------- Previous post was at 17:38 ----------

where the hell is 2nd lien going i thought virgin never wanted to move 2nd lien form liverpool

See here

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/10/33681519-virgin-media-closing-albert-dock.html

Peter_

05-01-2012, 17:43

where the hell is 2nd lien going i thought virgin never wanted to move 2nd lien form liverpool
If you call 2nd line now you will most likely hear a welsh voice as our 2nd line are in the main manning the forum.:erm:

thenry

05-01-2012, 17:43

Have you at least got the VM white splitter box in your flat?

i have a new isolator behind the white faceplate with vm on it yeah

thenry

05-01-2012, 21:10

ok let the roller coaster continue.. http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Up-to-30Mb-broadband/Line-Fault-or-Modem-Cloning/td-p/947531

Sirius

05-01-2012, 21:18

ok let the roller coaster continue.. http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Up-to-30Mb-broadband/Line-Fault-or-Modem-Cloning/td-p/947531

So according to you users of other ISP's on ADSL which are not even on our network or connected to our network are being affected by users cloning on the cable network :erm::erm::erm:

thenry

05-01-2012, 21:19

So according to you users of other ISP's on ADSL which are not even on our network or connected to our network are being affected by users cloning on the cable network :erm::erm::erm:

properties cabled up will hear them regardless whether their customers or not proven by my neighbours ticking over.

Stuart

05-01-2012, 21:32

Sorry, but even if cloners are sniffing your modem's MAC address, they wouldn't cause the isolator to tick. Quite apart from the fact that any attempt to send enough current to do that would blow up their modem (not to mention damage the hardware in the street cab), cloners don't want to draw that much attention to themselves.

Peter_

05-01-2012, 21:42

I have just had a thought!!!

I wonder if the ticking is from an undiscovered WW2 bomb.https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2012/12/10.gif

Sirius

05-01-2012, 21:46

I have just had a thought!!!

I wonder if the ticking is from an undiscovered WW2 bomb.https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2012/12/10.gif

I know what it is.

It's the rats tap dancing on the cables in the ductwork. That can be heard at the wall plate :LOL:

thenry

05-01-2012, 21:50

your right, it is rats at work causing this

Stephen

05-01-2012, 21:54

Woohoo, problem solved ;)

Sirius

05-01-2012, 21:55

Woohoo, problem solved ;)

Ok lets move on and pats on the back all round :)

General Maximus

05-01-2012, 22:15

thenry

05-01-2012, 22:35

i had this problem about 15 years ago and it turned out to be a dodgy phone we had in the house, a BT analogue cordless phone. When it finally broke and we replaced it with a digital phone all was good.

your isolator would tick over because of a shoddy home phone? the phone cables are separate to the fat pipe, so to speak.

Stephen

05-01-2012, 22:38

Not if there is dodgy wiring in the building and they aren't correctly earthed. That could cause the issues mentioned. Also you have brought this up in the past on the VM community forums and been told its impossible to be what you think it is.

thenry

05-01-2012, 22:49

Not if there is dodgy wiring in the building and they aren't correctly earthed. That could cause the issues mentioned.

not sure tbh but it would have been picked up on by now if that was the case.

Also you have brought this up in the past on the VM community forums and been told its impossible to be what you think it is.

yup it sucks that no ones listening to me and VM haven't got the system in place to pin point this issue. plus that was back then when it was much worse than it is today.. with regards to cloning that is.

Stephen

06-01-2012, 08:33

It's not that no one is listening. They have all told you what you think it is, is totally impossible. It is you that isn't listening to anyone else.

General Maximus

06-01-2012, 08:40

your isolator would tick over because of a shoddy home phone? the phone cables are separate to the fat pipe, so to speak.

i didnt say it was the isolator ticking, I said that i had an analogue phone and whenever I used it there was a ticking noise on the line which was being cause by the phone.

thenry

06-01-2012, 16:46

It's not that no one is listening. They have all told you what you think it is, is totally impossible. It is you that isn't listening to anyone else.

impossible? i don't think so and neither would you if you were here.

i didnt say it was the isolator ticking, I said that i had an analogue phone and whenever I used it there was a ticking noise on the line which was being cause by the phone.

oh.

pabscars

06-01-2012, 17:02

Thenry, do you have any video evidence (with sound) showing the issue while it's happening.

Stephen

06-01-2012, 17:07

impossible? i don't think so and neither would you if you were here.

oh.

Quite a few very knowledgeable VM peeps have told you it is impossible. Yet as you think its happening, then that must be fact. How about photos or videos of the equipment making the noise? It is more likely to be some kind if electrical interference.

thenry

06-01-2012, 17:15

tweetiepooh

06-01-2012, 17:21

No one is denying the symptom, they are (so far) gently telling you what the cause isn't.

thenry

06-01-2012, 17:31

you know whats adding frustration to this.. i'm gagged being on a public forum Download Failed (1)

Peter_

06-01-2012, 17:39

I'm 99.99% sure its down to those cloning. as for video evidence, i can't say at the moment. btw with regards to video evidence, whats the chances that could be called up as a fake? come round put your feet up and listen for yourself.
You have been told by the people whose job it is to know what the network is capable that your issue is not the one you believe it to be and you will not accept that even though it is their job to know.

Even if you managed to get the top engineer to your property and he turned around and advised you that the guys above are correct I still doubt that you would even accept that diagnosis.

I do not know how you can be so sure when everyone else informs you quite categorically that you are barking up the wrong tree.

If you go to the doctors do you self diagnose beforehand and then refuse to listen to his correct diagnosis because it differs from what you believe to be true.

Please read the answers from the people whose job it is to know these things and try and believe they must know better because it is their job to know.

pabscars

06-01-2012, 17:52

you know whats adding frustration to this.. i'm gagged being on a public forum Download Failed (1)

Well as long as you don't name names or places, what's your problem, spill the beans dude.

I could say my name is Sir Richard Branston, doesnt mean it's true though does it.

I'm taking a wild stab in the dark here and I'm guessing your actually some how involved in this dodgy activity, but don't have the minerals to admit it.

Of course this is just pure speculation and doesnt mean it's true does it ;)

thenry

06-01-2012, 17:52

ok we'll see where this fault is, thats if its ever found and rectified.

General Maximus

06-01-2012, 18:08

I don't know if this has been mentioned already because I havent read all 15 pages of posts but MAC addresses are unique and putting all the other security benefits of docsis 3 to one side, if thenrys mac address was being cloned surely 2 devices with the same mac shouldn't be allowed on the same network. If a second device tried to connect I thought the Cisco hardware would block it?

Stephen

06-01-2012, 18:15

That's correct afaik.

Hugh

06-01-2012, 18:15

you know whats adding frustration to this.. i'm gagged being on a public forum http://nationalinterest.org/files/imagecache/resize-340/images/SilentSmiley.jpg
Do you mean this forum isn't allowing you to post all the posts you have recently posted?

thenry

06-01-2012, 18:17

I've not said mines cloned, I'm saying I'm feeling the effect of cloning. docsis3 is good stuff, everything below sucks.

---------- Post added at 18:17 ---------- Previous post was at 18:17 ----------

Do you mean this forum isn't allowing you to post all the posts you have recently posted?

no some info i have. your good people here :D

General Maximus

06-01-2012, 18:35

I've not said mines cloned, I'm saying I'm feeling the effect of cloning. docsis3 is good stuff, everything below sucks.

---------- Post added at 18:17 ---------- Previous post was at 18:17 ----------

no some info i have. your good people here :D

what? So what do you actually think is happening then if you don't think your mac is being cloned? Someone else's is being cloned and you are suffering the effects of it on your line?

thenry

06-01-2012, 18:55

read through the thread General. I'm just having to repeat myself. and yes to your question. regardless of whos it is, it does effect paying customers.. I'll probably be blown away now but I stand by that too. The sooner every single modem not on docsis3 is off the network the better! VM systems might catch them out but that doesn't stop clones.

For all those reading though this thread who have paid BB services with VM that are not on docsis3.. really, consider upgrading.. well worth it in more ways than one :tu: a side note? may be then VM can start getting somewhere much more positive.

General Maximus

06-01-2012, 19:01

would you like to explain how someone else using a cloned modem is causing interference on your line?

Another point assuming it hasnt been brought up already, the only way you would ever get any interference, degradation, loss of performation or anything else on your line is if somebody was tapped into it and using your connection to access VMs network. Mac addresses for modems have to be registered on your account so even if someone else had a modem with a cloned mac they still wouldnt be able to use it because it is different to the one registered on your account.

Sirius

06-01-2012, 19:07

would you like to explain how someone else using a cloned modem is causing interference on your line?

We have asked this lots of times now and never get a clear technical answer. We only ever get a "it just is"

raging bull

06-01-2012, 19:12

Could this problem be caused by a simple thing like corroded connections between property and green box?

Sirius

06-01-2012, 19:15

Could this problem be caused by a simple thing like corroded connections between property and green box?What the op is saying is that when an alleged cloned modem is on the network or they are scanning for macs it makes his tap plate and isolator CLICK and it does this to other in his area even when they are NOT on cable but are using ADSL via twisted copper pairs from BT. That is impossible.

thenry

06-01-2012, 19:20

Sirus wanna come round, put your feet up? I'll even give you a tour of the area.

raging bull

06-01-2012, 19:22

As has been said previously impossible!

thenry

06-01-2012, 19:23

brilliant

Digital Fanatic

06-01-2012, 19:48

With all due respect Thenry, what you are saying is impossible. I know you believe it, but it isn't true.

Hugh

06-01-2012, 19:49

thenry, is your background in telecomms engineering?

If not, why do you think you know better than all the people whose background is, and who do this stuff for a living?

bonzoe

06-01-2012, 19:57

Is that tapping I can hear?..............ah the the central heating just come on, boy that's a relief;).

This thread must be getting to me:)

thenry

06-01-2012, 20:07

if I'm right....

Hugh

06-01-2012, 20:28

For values of "if" including no subject matter knowledge or experience....

New to cable

06-01-2012, 20:36

Would a cloned modem explain the following..

On phone to customer services today the woman tells me I have downloaded around 180Gb in the last month. So thats 6gb A DAY!

I know for a fact the internet was not used for 4 days as the modem was unplugged due to me decorating. I used my phones internet for browsing.

So would a cloned modem explain this? Or was she just lying to me as I was asking when I can cancel then, I then told her I i will be canceling as soon as they announce the 2012 price rise.

qasdfdsaq

06-01-2012, 20:36

martyh

06-01-2012, 20:40

What the op is saying is that when an alleged cloned modem is on the network or they are scanning for macs it makes his tap plate and isolator CLICK and it does this to other in his area even when they are NOT on cable but are using ADSL via twisted copper pairs from BT. That is impossible.

i didn't think there where any moving parts in a tap plate ,or am i thinking of the wrong part ?

qasdfdsaq

06-01-2012, 20:46

would you like to explain how someone else using a cloned modem is causing interference on your line?
Easy. As Masque keeps saying plugging in your own cable can cause interference on everyone else's line. While ridiculously rare and unlikely it's theoretically possible. A bad/modified modem might generate more RF noise, have a bad amp, or any of numerous other factors. Jerry-rigged connectors may allow further noise ingress, etc. Noise on the shared network, particularly intermittent noise, can be very hard to pinpoint.

Another point assuming it hasnt been brought up already, the only way you would ever get any interference, degradation, loss of performation or anything else on your line is if somebody was tapped into it and using your connection to access VMs network. Remember VM "connections" are shared between dozens to hundreds of modems. Potentially a thousand homes or connections are combined into a single upstream/downstream to the headend. Any single person - cloned or legit - using that shared pipe can and will cause interference, degradation, and loss of performance.

Mac addresses for modems have to be registered on your account so even if someone else had a modem with a cloned mac they still wouldnt be able to use it because it is different to the one registered on your account.If a MAC is cloned then by definition it's the same MAC. Your statement makes no sense.

---------- Post added at 20:46 ---------- Previous post was at 20:42 ----------

What the op is saying is that when an alleged cloned modem is on the network or they are scanning for macs it makes his tap plate and isolator CLICK and it does this to other in his area even when they are NOT on cable but are using ADSL via twisted copper pairs from BT. That is impossible.
It's not actually completely impossible. In some ex-TW areas where a single drop cable is shared by multiple homes, there's enough DC bias and earth faults to cause coax cables to generate electrical sparks when being connected or disconnected.

thenry

06-01-2012, 20:59

Pay for my train tickets and I will.

your train tickets? mate your another daddy on here and your asking me, unemployed to pay for tickets :shocked:

Sirius

06-01-2012, 21:04

i didn't think there where any moving parts in a tap plate ,or am i thinking of the wrong part ?

Your correct there is no moving parts

martyh

06-01-2012, 21:08

Your correct there is no moving parts

so nothing to move means nothing to make a noise ,would have thought that was logical and obvious myself .I'm no expert though:shrug:

General Maximus

06-01-2012, 21:10

If a MAC is cloned then by definition it's the same MAC. Your statement makes no sense

What I mean is that presumably my account is registered to my address and however VM define the connection to my property so what I am saying is that if my mac is registered to this address and account, somebody living down the street from me couldn't use the same mac on their connection because it isnt registered to the account of that address.

thenry

06-01-2012, 21:14

so nothing to move means nothing to make a noise ,would have thought that was logical and obvious myself .I'm no expert though:shrug:

surge protector? would it make a noise if high levels hit it, some form a glitch hit it?

---------- Post added at 21:14 ---------- Previous post was at 21:11 ----------

What I mean is that presumably my account is registered to my address and however VM define the connection to my property so what I am saying is that if my mac is registered to this address and account, somebody living down the street from me couldn't use the same mac on their connection because it isnt registered to the account of that address.

bloody razmataz rat attack

Andrewcrawford23

06-01-2012, 21:16

surge protector? would it make a noise if high levels hit it, some form a glitch hit it?

---------- Post added at 21:14 ---------- Previous post was at 21:11 ----------

vermin have tools. bloody razmataz rat attack.

oh a surge protector would make a clicking noise alright ;) and a very big banging noise milliseconds later if say the surge procteter was set for 1a and was hit with 1000000a but you would notice because oyu have no power to the things pluged into it and in fac tno power in your house and about 5 mile radius assuming your ina town

Peter_

06-01-2012, 21:17

Easy. As Masque keeps saying plugging in your own cable can cause interference on everyone else's line. While ridiculously rare and unlikely it's theoretically possible. A bad/modified modem might generate more RF noise, have a bad amp, or any of numerous other factors. Jerry-rigged connectors may allow further noise ingress, etc. Noise on the shared network, particularly intermittent noise, can be very hard to pinpoint.

Do you mean a badly made up coax cable with poorly fitted F connectors, well that is pretty obvious even for you, do please read posts in future and stop making up your own scenarios as oddly enough many more people give similar advice but you have tunnel vision or a crush.:rolleyes:

Also the people giving the real advice here are the people who have years of experience such as Sirius

martyh

06-01-2012, 21:20

surge protector? would it make a noise if high levels hit it, some form a glitch hit it?

---------- Post added at 21:14 ---------- Previous post was at 21:11 ----------

bloody razmataz rat attack

usually something with a relay in it would make a clicking noise .I had a issue in my van where when i was driving there was a very annoying clicking behind the dash board so i stopped to investigate and nothing ,carried on driviving clicking returned turned out to be a bad earth in the central locking making the relay click ,i believe surge protectors have a type of relay in them

Andrewcrawford23

06-01-2012, 21:23

usually something with a relay in it would make a clicking noise .I had a issue in my van where when i was driving there was a very annoying clicking behind the dash board so i stopped to investigate and nothing ,carried on driviving clicking returned turned out to be a bad earth in the central locking making the relay click ,i believe surge protectors have a type of relay in them

regardless of what it is, the onmibox surge protector his computer a light, ,klamppost, even the aerial, the clickign noise is comign form a eltrically fault until he accept that he wont get his problem fixed

thenry

06-01-2012, 21:23

Andrewcrawford23

06-01-2012, 21:25

thenry

06-01-2012, 21:31

regardless of what it is, the onmibox surge protector his computer a light, ,klamppost, even the aerial, the clickign noise is comign form a eltrically fault until he accept that he wont get his problem fixed

I'll happily be corrected, not a problem. the reason why I keep banging on about clones and this is because i know for a fact when they boot up my isolator ticks over 2+2=4 not 5.. now your gonna ask how i know.. well like i keep saying come round. it then carries on ticking over, they vary too.. the loudness until they stop.

this is unbelievable, nothing will be fixed its been years! it'll carry on and the chances of me being taken away in a straight jacket will carry on increasing

Peter_

06-01-2012, 21:31

I can't even ask a question without someone else blowing my head off or risking others getting ideas. question would have been if someone has a bad install within the area or has tampered with something could that effect whoevers linked to the same cab resulting in these tick/click noises coming from the isolator.
You have it set in your mind that it is a cloned modem issue and refuse pointblank to take notice of the people in the know who keep telling you it is not possible to give your connection the symptoms you describe.

Read what has been said let it sink in and then you can go forward and possibly get your issue sorted out for once and for all, the is little point making guesses when you are not a trained Virgin media engineer with years of experience.

Andrewcrawford23

06-01-2012, 21:36

I'll happily be corrected, not a problem. the reason why I keep banging on about clones and this is because i know for a fact when they boot up my isolator ticks over 2+2=4 not 5.. now your gonna ask how i know.. well like i keep saying come round. it then carries on ticking over, they vary too.. the loudness until they stop.

this is unbelievable, nothing will be fixed its been years! it'll carry on and the chances of me being taken away in a straight jacket will carry on increasing

well with your attuide towards it wouldnt be surpised ifthe engineer have said bugger you

your 21 so you could have bene workign 5 years or been at college etc, so give e your background so i can see you have some sort of knowledge in the subject then i might give oyu credit and say maybe you know something we dnt

thenry

06-01-2012, 21:46

i told them the fault, i told them my theory thats it. i'd hate it if someone was in my area while working so i don't do it to others. my history, i have nothing.

Hugh

06-01-2012, 21:48

i told them the fault, i told them my theory thats it. i'd hate it if someone was in my area while working so i don't do it to others. my history, i have nothing.
But your theory is based on lack of subject matter knowledge - do you also ignore medical advice if it contradicts your theories?

Andrewcrawford23

06-01-2012, 21:52

i told them the fault, i told them my theory thats it. i'd hate it if someone was in my area while working so i don't do it to others. my history, i have nothing.

well i wonder why they might be relucent to dig deeper, since there trained and know what cloens do and dnt do and yoru basically tellign them that what it is.......

well ive got a background in eltrically engineer and netowrking with the papers and letters to go to my name, and other who have posted properly have the same if not mroe than me but you jsut keep saying it the clone, why not post on the community forum you lvoe posting here wont harm to post there, dnt meantion anytihng baout clones, say yoru have speed issues and pign problems at ties and you keep hearing noises form the box wher ethe virign cable comes in see what they say and suggest i bet a tech is there suggestion, and if your happy to prove that after getting the cbale and etc replace and still have this clicking noise maybe we are all worng and yoru right but then we will all be at alost as to how there doign it but at least you can say it most liekly that

---------- Post added at 21:52 ---------- Previous post was at 21:51 ----------

But your theory is based on lack of subject matter knowledge - do you also ignore medical advice if it contradicts your theories?

well i dnt want to go there but personally i a wondering about doctors myself ;) they tell you there nothing wrong then go do the exact opposite but still wont give you help for sometihn gyou dnt have but they report you for lol

spory i wont give mroe details as it is personal