BT Exchange Problem

[smeagoly1]

HI all

I'm currently a VM ADSL Customer, but as it uses the BT exchange i placed the question in this section.
I currently use the "Whitlet Bay" exchange, that was ADSL MAX enabled as of 2006, according to BT and the samknows sites.

When i moved into the new flat just over one year ago, I started my current VM ADSL package. At the time everyone was complaining about speed issues...mine at the time was less than 1meg. So after a few months called Tech Support, who then seemed to have fixed the issue...i was getting a constant 6 meg, with no lag and no drop outs. I kept logs of the speeds and noise margins, this lasted for about 4 weeks. Called Tech support again, and the connection speeds whent back up to 6 meg and no drop outs.

Unfortunate that i left everything switched off for a week as i went on holiday, then boom....back down to 2meg and constant drop outs,lag etc.

I once again rang up, to be confronted with.....your exchange is only 2meg and that's not our problem.

My problem is...i was getting 6 meg constant speeds, once i rang up, but now all the sites even BT say "your exchange is only upto 2.5meg" and VM go off this information, as it is supplied by BT.

Am i missing something here? I know speeds depend on distance, but i was getting 6 meg connection speeds, according to my routers home page and various speed tests. Now i am told you can only get 2 meg and that's it.

So what does BT ADSL MAX enabled mean? if checking sites say you can only get 2 now? and not the upto 8 i was getting. I always thought MAX enabled meant you can get speeds upto 8 meg....not upto 2meg.

I have kept records of the various connection speeds, noise margins and times/dates tests carried out. I clearly was getting upto 6meg, which was great for 3-4 weeks at a time. During these times i also got no packet loss. Now it seems to run at 25-50% and pings going into the startosphere.

Any suggestions as to what may be up..or if i'm missing something about the technical aspect of my BT Exchange.

[Charlie_Bubble]

HI all

I'm currently a VM ADSL Customer, but as it uses the BT exchange i placed the question in this section.
I currently use the "Whitlet Bay" exchange, that was ADSL MAX enabled as of 2006, according to BT and the samknows sites.

When i moved into the new flat just over one year ago, I started my current VM ADSL package. At the time everyone was complaining about speed issues...mine at the time was less than 1meg. So after a few months called Tech Support, who then seemed to have fixed the issue...i was getting a constant 6 meg, with no lag and no drop outs. I kept logs of the speeds and noise margins, this lasted for about 4 weeks. Called Tech support again, and the connection speeds whent back up to 6 meg and no drop outs.

Unfortunate that i left everything switched off for a week as i went on holiday, then boom....back down to 2meg and constant drop outs,lag etc.

I once again rang up, to be confronted with.....your exchange is only 2meg and that's not our problem.

My problem is...i was getting 6 meg constant speeds, once i rang up, but now all the sites even BT say "your exchange is only upto 2.5meg" and VM go off this information, as it is supplied by BT.

Am i missing something here? I know speeds depend on distance, but i was getting 6 meg connection speeds, according to my routers home page and various speed tests. Now i am told you can only get 2 meg and that's it.

So what does BT ADSL MAX enabled mean? if checking sites say you can only get 2 now? and not the upto 8 i was getting. I always thought MAX enabled meant you can get speeds upto 8 meg....not upto 2meg.

I have kept records of the various connection speeds, noise margins and times/dates tests carried out. I clearly was getting upto 6meg, which was great for 3-4 weeks at a time. During these times i also got no packet loss. Now it seems to run at 25-50% and pings going into the startosphere.

Any suggestions as to what may be up..or if i'm missing something about the technical aspect of my BT Exchange.

Your exchange has been enabled for O2/Be according to Samknows. Get one of them. Drop VM and go with a decent ADSL supplier. Got to either Be* (http://www.bethere.co.uk) or O2 (http://broadband.o2.co.uk/), put your details in their checkers and see what they say.

[smeagoly1]

Thanks for the quick reply Charlie bubble :)
Iv'e looked into BE* unfortunate their site says on the check i'm only able to get 0.9meg..which seems strange.
I'd love to go to either Be* or O2 but i think i need to find out what is going on with the exchange or Bt for such a large drop and chnage in their exchange status.
Just seems odd i was getting 6 and now they say it's now only capable of 2.
Just seems a wee bit of a con paying for upto 8 when it can only be upto 2 :(
But those two suggestions are def one of the ISP's i'm heading towards, many thanks again.

[Chris]

Thread moved to Virgin Media Internet Services forum.

It's never a good idea to assume you know the answer when you pose the question, it may make you ask the wrong question. Like assuming you have a problem with the exchange being downrated or something. ;)

The ADSLMAX product is indeed up to 8meg, with actual speed determined by line length and quality. I am on that product, through Virgin Media, and my router is normally locked on at about 3.5meg. Congestion normally prevents me getting more than about 2.7meg, even at off peak times.

However I constantly get letters from Virgin trying to entice me to move from their 2meg DSL product, to the up to 8meg product, 'for only one pound more, plus a Virgin phone package'. I used to be on their 2meg product, but moved quite some time ago. I have no idea what part of their systems think I'm still on that product, but the part that actually provisions the service doesn't think so as I am definitely on ADSLMAX.

If you can be bothered to do battle with India, you should eventually be able to persuade someone of your case, especially if you can produce proof of what package you were on (set-up emails, logs from speed test sites, that sort of thing), but TBH as others have said it may be as well to just give them the middle finger and sign up with someone else, especially if the exchange has been unbundled (mine hasn't, unfortunately, it's far too remote and rural).

At the very least, when you phone them to get your MAC code you will speak to someone in a UK call centre who might be more willing to take your complaint seriously.

[Noggo]

I would head over to Beforum (http://www.beforum.co.uk/) post your modem/router stats in the `Be & O2 Discussion' section and see what the peeps there say about what your estimated speed will be.

+ have you tried this BT line speed checker (http://www.adslchecker.bt.com/pls/adsl/adslchecker.welcome)

[Zhadnost]

And of course Usual hints like try to run the modem from the NTE-5 socket that comes in the house using a good quality filter (the ones BT sometimes provide that sit in the NTE-5 is good) and removing the ringer wire etc.

By changing the wiring in the socket where the line comes in at my bosses house, I managed to get the modem to sync at double the speed that it had been (and still at that speed 2 months later).

[chickendippers]

Has your modem's sync speed changed? I.e. was it at 6000ish kbps and it now nearer 2000 kbps?

[smeagoly1]

Currently my Sync Speed, fluculates all over from it's highest of 2180 kbps down to 1256 kbs as it's been stuck on for 2 days, making using the internet a nightmare and gaming a no go. I have to do a full reset every hour or so now.

When the modem was synced at 6000 kbs, it only ever flucuated by 500 kbs and never had any lag or constant drop outs at those settings.

It took a little bit of nagging and not letting things lie, after my initial install, to get it up to around 6000, which my neighbours do get with other ISP's. This seems to last for roughly 4 weeks, then if the modem is switched off, over night kaboom, back down to appauling levels.

Everything is connected through the master socket, and tests done wired and wirless. BT Line checkers when done, did show line speeds of 6000... now it just either come sup with error messages or only capabale of 2.2meg. Which made me scratch my head a bit and wonder if i am getting confused over something.

It would not be so bad if i lived out miles away from an exchange, as i never expect to get anywhere near full adsl speeds, but i am 1.3km away, and was getting decent connection speeds and 3 times faster than what VM are telling me my connection is capable of now. Just getting confused and a little angry now at the way things seem to be going.

Don't get me wrong, when i was synced at near 6000 my VM ADSL was the bees knees, and could not fault it. Now after over 10 years with TW, then BY now VM I may just pack it all in.

---------- Post added at 10:31 ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 ----------

Has your modem's sync speed changed? I.e. was it at 6000ish kbps and it now nearer 2000 kbps?


yes my sync speeds have def changed, according the the routers homepage.
It's now 1280 kbs, last week 2112 kbs. It used to show hovering roughly around the 6000 never lower than 5400 kbs for weeks on end, even after powering down overnight.
I lost the line sysnc when i swictched off for a week, while on holiday, and it's never been right since, and being told the exchange and line is not capable of reaching those speeds, when clearly they did constantly reach prior to this.

[Zhadnost]

I get the impression that the speed people in the area are syncing at, has some basis on the result of BTs speed check.

Have you tried reporting it as a fault with BT, this sorted out an ADSL line I had a few years ago. (when this exact thing happened twice).

[chickendippers]

The fact that your sync speed has reduced suggests to me a line problem rather than anything VM themselves are doing.

What happens to your sync speeds when you connect the modem directly to the test socket? http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/view-master.html

[Chris]

The fact that your sync speed has reduced suggests to me a line problem rather than anything VM themselves are doing.

Agreed. Unfortunately as he is a customer of Virgin for his internet, the issue needs to be raised by Virgin with BT. And Virgin CS so far seem content to just stare at their diagnostic screen and insist there isn't a problem.

I have got round this in the past by complaining of an audible crackle on my voice service, which is direct with BT (this was actually true, although not really a big problem). The BT engineer came out, found three faults on the line between here and the exchange, and fixed them all in one afternoon. The crackle disappeared, and my sync speed shot up from about 1.7Mb to more like 3.5Mb.

Mind you, it still fluctuates from time to time. I have seen it as high as 4.1mb but at the moment it's at 2.7. Our line is exposed all the way back to the exchange though, so it is prone to weathering and other damage. If it gets really poor again, I'll give them a call.

[Noggo]

What's the condition of the BT line like, any background noises when making phone calls?

Try `BT line Test Facilities' (use a wired phone, not cordless)


Dial 17070 on the phone, you should get through to BT line Test Facilities.
Then Choose option 2, Quiet Line Test
At this stage you should hear absolutely nothing. It would help if you pressed the 'Secrecy' button on your phone as your phones mic may introduce noise.

[smeagoly1]

Oh i didn't think it was VM, But getting contradicting information and prior results, leads me to suspect there is a problem with BT, who tbh are adamant there is nothing wrong, so willd do jack squat or just being silly so and so's.
VM can only go on the results BT give them. BT always say, well it hasn't triggered our fault levels yet. They must have a very low value for that then, when i sysnc 3 times lower than previous levels.

When connected direct to the master socket, which it has always been connected to, i get the same results. With and without ADSL Splitter. Also tried a new connectore, just in case one was faulty.

Just done other isp checks a few mins ago, i get varying results...0.2meg to 2.2 meg, depending on which site i use to check.

---------- Post added at 11:37 ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 ----------

What's the condition of the BT line like, any background noises when making phone calls?

Try `BT line Test Facilities' (use a wired phone, not cordless)


Dial 17070 on the phone, you should get through to BT line Test Facilities.
Then Choose option 2, Quiet Line Test
At this stage you should hear absolutely nothing. It would help if you pressed the 'Secrecy' button on your phone as your phones mic may introduce noise.


Thanks for that, I have tried this before, the line is brand spanking new, and get no noice, crackling or hiss. Mind you that was just before christmas, but of late things have become notacibly worse with the sync issues. I'll redo that test again tonight.

[danielf]

<snip>

When connected direct to the master socket, which it has always been connected to, i get the same results. With and without ADSL Splitter. Also tried a new connectore, just in case one was faulty.

<snip>

Do you mean master socket or test socket? The test socket is located behind the face plate of the master socket. When you connect to the test socket, this bypasses any extensions (and related interference) you may have in your house. This provides the best test of what your line is capable of.

[Noggo]

If you know your SNR and Attenuation, look here:
ADSL and ADSL2+ Line Capability Estimator (http://212.23.23.177/ADSL/default.aspx)

Is it a Speedtouch you've got? If yes, try DMT tool (http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/DMTv7.htm). You may want to read The DMT Tool for dummies guide (http://www.beforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8200)

[smeagoly1]

If you know your SNR and Attenuation, look here:
ADSL and ADSL2+ Line Capability Estimator (http://212.23.23.177/ADSL/default.aspx)

Is it a Speedtouch you've got? If yes, try DMT tool (http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/DMTv7.htm). You may want to read The DMT Tool for dummies guide (http://www.beforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8200)
Hi Nogo and thanks for that link, just tested it with my current settigs:- line sync 1856 kbps
Line Attenuation :- 29db
Noise Ratio :- 7db

It does say i am failing the speeds for adsl and should get 6700 kbps for those settings.

Just to add, i ran the bt speed test, same connection speeds, but said my IP profile was set at 1000kbps... not sure if this has any bearing on the current matter in hand.
Hope this information helps.

Regards
smee

[Chris]

Hi Nogo and thanks for that link, just tested it with my current settigs:- line sync 1856 kbps
Line Attenuation :- 29db
Noise Ratio :- 7db

It does say i am failing the speeds for adsl and should get 6700 kbps for those settings.
Hope this information helps.

Regards
smee

I tried that page earlier on with my data, and then had a play with it, inventing other data combinations to see what it had to say.

Based on the attenuation and noise margin you have supplied, a sync of 1856 is very, very poor. My attenuation is 61 with noise margin of 15, and it states that my current sync of 2785 is better than I should hope for (actually I've had it synced much faster than that).

So you should absolutely, definitely be getting much better than 1856 with attenuation and noise as low as you have.

Unfortunately my one major doubt here is whether you will be able to get anyone at VM to take you seriously. In my experience they don't react awfully well to people who phone them up armed with hard technical data. Not in India, anyway. Maybe you would have some luck if you bullied your way into talking with a second line tech. Ask for a MAC code, that usually scares them into connecting you to someone in the UK.

[Noggo]

I know Bethere have told you 0.9meg, just post your line stats on the Beforum (www.beforum.co.uk) (`Be & O2 Discussion' section) and ask what speed you should be able to get. Sometimes the info they have is wrong and judging on what connection speed you had before and what your neighbours have got, you should be able to get some good download speed from your line with 29 dB attenuation look at picture on first post (http://www.beforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6490)

Remember Bethere.co.uk for gaming if you need it, as O2 doesn't have fastpath option available.

[smeagoly1]

Thanks for all the replies and information guys, it's much appreciated.
I'll try and get in to them after work today, see if i get anyplace.

I agree with chris, everytime i get India i have no joy, but UK support seem to take everything on board and try to see what can be done. Hopefully i can get through there.

As ever much appreciated.
Regards
smee

[Chris]

Just wondering how you got on with this? As it happens my line has developed an audible crackle again today, and surprise surprise my internet has also become unstable. In fact I can knock my DSL connection offline simply by making a phone call.

I'm glad I recorded my stats in this thread the other week as it gives me a comparison. On 12th March my downstream attenuation was 61 with noise margin of 15, sync at 2785. Right now, I have attenuation 62, noise 6, sync 3552, although I'm expecting that to drop while it tries to find a new stable level to work at.

The noise has been as low as 2 or 3 this afternoon. My reading up on the subject suggests that it should be between 6 and 15, so in a couple of weeks its shot from one end of the acceptable range to the other, and is now occasionally dropping right below it.

I have deployed my usual strategy - complain to BT about the audible noise on the line rather than arguing with VM about the intermittent dropping of my DSL service. Hey presto, BT engineer booked for tomorrow morning. I'll let you know how it works out. :D

[smeagoly1]

Hi Chris, think i may just have to go down yoru route there :) Tried calling BT a couple of times to be confronted as usual by the "NOT out problem call your ISP"
I know it's not a VM fault, so no reason for me to complain to them, just to be told the same lol
My noise and atenuation levels remain roughly the same 24/7. Connection levels well lets say are now bouncing between 2100kbs down to 700kbs at times.
Funny thing was i work mate just asked me today, how mine was as he is now getting 16meg on adsl on the next exchange to mine, when he changed ISP.
Think i am just going to badger BT for another week. But one can only take so much stonewalling, not CS fault.

[Chris]

The key is to log it as a problem with the voice line, not as an internet problem. I know it sounds stupid, and it is, but they don't care that it's the same wire between you and the exchange. All they care about is who's paying them, and you're not paying BT for your internet connection.

When the tech comes out to me tomorrow I'll be telling him all about the crackly line but I'll make darned sure he sees my modem/router's DSL status page as well. I have no doubt he will be happy to investigate and fix everything that's wrong with the line. ;)

EDIT

And, when you call, make sure you do it from a corded phone attached to the test socket inside your BT master. They ask you to do this to prove it's not equipment inside your home or extensions you have installed that are causing the problem. Doing it before they ask you to just makes the process of getting them to accept they need to send an engineer out a bit quicker.

[smeagoly1]

Thanks Chris, i deffo will do that next week, as i have time off then during the day.
Hope things go well for you when your engineer arrives :)

[Chris]

Well, he spent a good half hour here and has just left. He checked at the exchange before coming here, and he's going to check along the line later this morning. So far, no fault found. :banghead:

Mind you, the audible crackle has disappeared this morning, as has the unstable internet connection. For the time being, all is rosy. He said it might be a wet joint; if that's the case it'll come back again eventually, but for now I'm happy. He fitted a nice new 'Faceplate 2000' while he was here so I don't need to use a separate microfilter any more.

He also remarked that had I phoned in a broadband complaint, rather than a problem with the voice service, I'd have been waiting at least a couple of weeks for him to come out. In his own words, "Virgin don't like calling us out because it costs them a couple of hundred quid, you'd probably still be arguing with them about it." A lesson worth learning there. ;)

Needless to say, as predicted he did a full broadband health check on the line while he was here.