View Full Version : New p2p/torrent shaping rules on Virgin Media ?
The Jackal
10-03-2009, 20:55
Has anyone noticed anything strange today.
Usually when I use p2p/large usenet downloads I get punished by VM with a hell of a lot of packet loss.
However today the same thing kicked in just before 3pm - Lots of packet loss effectively throttling me back to 2.5mbps (Supposed to be on 20meg), for a good several hours the internet was unusable.
Albeit at around 7pm packet loss was replaced by high latency shaping which imho is a much better way to shape. I can actually browse the web !
I would not have been able to post this had I been on the same packet loss ratio as experienced earlier on today.
Attached is a graph of my bandwidth usage today... I kicked off some torrents at 1pm and as you can see have been harshly shaped.
broadbandking
10-03-2009, 23:50
Whilst Virgin deny the claims of them throttling torrents I have heard that trials are going ahead, come to think of it my torrents have been all over the place today, fine now but very strange
The Jackal
11-03-2009, 00:03
Yeah definite throttling of torrents by Virgin Media you can see that from my graph.
Looking at my p2p downloads at the moment, I have 300 connections open and am only getting 2.5-3mbps I should be getting a lot higher. Doing a speedtest gives me 8mbps (LOL), again verifying shaping of p2p packets.
TBH I think this is great... Throttle p2p users to 2.5mbps at peak times is good - 90% of them don't know how much damage they are actually causing. My packet loss stats for tonight have been pretty low which means that I can actually browse the web !
The Jackal
11-03-2009, 00:59
Someone pinch me ... I must be dreaming ...
0% packet loss ? Haven't seen days like this since blueyonder was about !
Let's see how this pans out by the end of the week
broadbandking
11-03-2009, 09:47
not bad really
must have brass balls to be using p2p these days...
I was seeding about 5gb yesterday between 4-10pm and nothing happened to me (using utorrent), although I am on the 50mb package where there is no STM.
broadbandking
11-03-2009, 13:02
I had such slow torrent yesterday daytime come around 5-6pm my torrents was fine and again this morning they was fine, so might have been a hiccup
Welshchris
11-03-2009, 13:08
must have brass balls to be using p2p these days...
just because people use P2P doesnt mean they r using it for illegal purposes.
just because people use P2P doesnt mean they r using it for illegal purposes.
Don't open that BS can of worms....
Welshchris
11-03-2009, 13:12
its totally true. For example... The BBC Iplayer is based on a P2P platform yet thats not an illegal instrument.
I do not disagree with that but the OP clearly states P2P/Usenet large download, I just read between the lines! I was going to offer advice not to use P2P to download anything aherm dodgy... only looking out for my downloading brothers!
Back on track I have had the odd day in the lest few weeks with 20% packet loss, thank god for PAR 2 files!
Turkey Machine
11-03-2009, 13:59
must have brass balls to be using p2p these days...
Mine must be solid gold then, as I use it daily to seed and download things, without any trouble whatsoever. ;)
"Oh looks, a solid GoldMember!" :D
Mine must be solid gold then, as I use it daily to seed and download things, without any trouble whatsoever. ;)
"Oh looks, a solid GoldMember!" :D
I'm far too paranoid to have my IP address floating around on open torrents! Anyway I get a better service and speed using usenet without being bothered by so called 'Letters'.
Raistlin
11-03-2009, 14:30
Ahem.....
Rights and wrongs of P2P != Virgin Media Shaping Torrents
Topic please.
IMHO, nobody should be shaping anything! If there are no bandwidth limits on 50 meg, I dont see why there should be for any of the lower packages.
If you sign up for a package, you should be able to use that package whenever you want, for as long as you want. VM advertised those services knowing full well that the servers cant cope with the amount of traffic that already flowed through them when they took over from TW. 50 meg is only allowed to be because of limiting everyone else.
Its their shortfall and we pick up the pieces.
Bricktop
15-10-2009, 10:33
personally i would like to see them block all torrents, maybe that way the service would be better in the evening for people who aint on 50mbs etc
Ignitionnet
15-10-2009, 12:09
personally i would like to see them block all torrents, maybe that way the service would be better in the evening for people who aint on 50mbs etc
Or they could just add additional capacity before upgrading a load of people from 2 to 10Mbps instead of just doing the upgrading then clearing up afterwards.
Can't blame other people for using their unlimited service as sold.
---------- Post added at 12:02 ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 ----------
Looking at my p2p downloads at the moment, I have 300 connections open and am only getting 2.5-3mbps I should be getting a lot higher. Doing a speedtest gives me 8mbps (LOL), again verifying shaping of p2p packets.
You do know that just piling on connections can be counter-productive right? Connections require memory to be stored, CPU time to be spent. Less is more sometimes and if you are on a closed tracker there is absolutely no need to use so many.
---------- Post added at 12:05 ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 ----------
However today the same thing kicked in just before 3pm - Lots of packet loss effectively throttling me back to 2.5mbps (Supposed to be on 20meg), for a good several hours the internet was unusable.
STM?
Albeit at around 7pm packet loss was replaced by high latency shaping which imho is a much better way to shape. I can actually browse the web !
Shaping doesn't work that way.
I would not have been able to post this had I been on the same packet loss ratio as experienced earlier on today.
Attached is a graph of my bandwidth usage today... I kicked off some torrents at 1pm and as you can see have been harshly shaped.
Can't see the attachment but shaping doesn't induce packet loss. Pushing a few hundred TCP connections through a router or modem that can't really handle them might though.
---------- Post added at 12:09 ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 ----------
IMHO, nobody should be shaping anything! If there are no bandwidth limits on 50 meg, I dont see why there should be for any of the lower packages.
If you sign up for a package, you should be able to use that package whenever you want, for as long as you want. VM advertised those services knowing full well that the servers cant cope with the amount of traffic that already flowed through them when they took over from TW. 50 meg is only allowed to be because of limiting everyone else.
Its their shortfall and we pick up the pieces.
50M being as it is is nothing at all to do with limits on the lower services, those were put in place due to capacity restraint on those networks.
If you sign up for a package you get to use that package as advertised, if it's unlimited, uncapped, unshaped, etc then that's how you use it. If it has shaping / limits / capping / whatever then that's how you use it. Packages aren't magically unlimited / uncapped / no FUP unless they say so. By your logic you could sign up to a service with a 1GB a month limit but be able to use it whenever and for as long as you wish.
Much as I love this rumour that TW were blameless, network always perfect, etc, VM spent a lot of money and time fixing the mess that was the TW network. Literally thousands of upgrades were needed. Let's of course remember who first employed STM too - it was Telewest.
Anyone on a 10 / 20M package who doesn't want those limits can upgrade at their convenience.
[/COLOR]
50M being as it is is nothing at all to do with limits on the lower services, those were put in place due to capacity restraint on those networks.
If you sign up for a package you get to use that package as advertised, if it's unlimited, uncapped, unshaped, etc then that's how you use it. If it has shaping / limits / capping / whatever then that's how you use it. Packages aren't magically unlimited / uncapped / no FUP unless they say so. By your logic you could sign up to a service with a 1GB a month limit but be able to use it whenever and for as long as you wish.
Much as I love this rumour that TW were blameless, network always perfect, etc, VM spent a lot of money and time fixing the mess that was the TW network. Literally thousands of upgrades were needed. Let's of course remember who first employed STM too - it was Telewest.
Anyone on a 10 / 20M package who doesn't want those limits can upgrade at their convenience.
Nope, I've said nothing of the sort to the tune of 1GB limited services in my previous post. Lets remember I'm talking about VM unlimited broadband which is at times neither broad or unlimited. If they wanted to unleash 50MB broadband on the public fair enough, but first make sure the servers can handle the traffic and secondly don't punish the little guy on 4, 10 or 20MB!
Ignitionnet
15-10-2009, 13:11
Nope, I've said nothing of the sort to the tune of 1GB limited services in my previous post. Lets remember I'm talking about VM unlimited broadband which is at times neither broad or unlimited. If they wanted to unleash 50MB broadband on the public fair enough, but first make sure the servers can handle the traffic and secondly don't punish the little guy on 4, 10 or 20MB!
Again the 50 uses a different network and in no way impinges on the performance of the 2, 10 or 20Mbit.
The main performance problem right now is probably due to the 2 -> 10 uplift, nothing to do with the 50M.
broadbandking
15-10-2009, 16:57
:clap:
People really need to research the network before commenting
Mega Posters or not chaps, the fact still remains. 50Mb is only allowed to be because of the skimping on equipment for the lower broadband speeds. If the network was upgraded sufficiently so that speeds did not have to be limited for the lower classes, VM simply would not have the funds for 50Mb!
Ignitionnet
15-10-2009, 18:37
Mega Posters or not chaps, the fact still remains. 50Mb is only allowed to be because of the skimping on equipment for the lower broadband speeds. If the network was upgraded sufficiently so that speeds did not have to be limited for the lower classes, VM simply would not have the funds for 50Mb!
I'm afraid your opinion isn't fact. It is considerably more expensive to upgrade the legacy kit than it was to introduce 50Mbps, and it freed up a not inconsiderable amount of capacity when 20Mbps modems were migrated to the newer platform.
In addition the same equipment that 50Mbps lives on is also used for capacity relief of the legacy network. There are no more of the old uBRs that the legacy network was run on going in as Cisco have EoL'd them. All kit is potentially 50Mbps compatible now. The cost increment of making the stuff 50Mbps ready over using it purely for legacy capacity relief is very minor.
The actual main cost is in the field work that's needed to upgrade the legacy network, split down local areas so less customers are sharing the bandwidth, etc. The 50Mbps upgrade didn't take money away from the resegmentation budget for the legacy network at all they are two totally different projects. It does however save some money and speed up upgrades for the 'lower classes' as the ports are ready for you guys to be spread across to upgrade you once the field work is done, and the network maintenance programs that have been taking place as part of the 50Mbps project and will continue apace benefit every customer.
I'm far too paranoid to have my IP address floating around on open torrents!
To be honest, your IP, mine and others is probably floating around on random torrents
Reason I say that is, wasn't it The Piratebay who purposely pick random IP's and put them on torrents, whether or not you actually use torrents at all?
I'm sure I read that somewhere
gianipower
15-10-2009, 20:22
We might as well go back to their 2 meg package whats the point in the 10 meg or above if you cant download anything without them throttling your connection theres just no point in giving them any more money is there?.
50 meg my arse anyone who has had it has had nothing but problems
http://www.speedtest.net/result/593266395.png
Im payting £29.00 a month for 20 meg but rarely get it the company stinks bigt time I hope they lose a hell of a lot of customers, there was a time when I would recommend nthell but not now I wouldnt tell ANYONE to use them.
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.