View Full Version : VM's Indian callcentre
Over the last few weeks I've had an issue with the internet connection at my parents' house, and posted about it here (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33645583-router-needs-resetting.html) and whenever I've called up about it I've always got through to India when calling tech support.
Since that problem started I've called them a total 9 times and spoken to 9 different agents and been given 9 different 'solutions', none of which have worked.
I called them again last night as the problem was getting worse, seems like the problem is with the modem and not the router, so I tried an old silver ambit modem we used to have on the 2mb service but the drops kept happening. The agent last night decided to send me out a new modem. Erm hello? The connection drops with the normal modem and also the old silver one, does that not suggest it's not the modem at fault? But he would have none of it - a modem was to be sent out.
I wasn't convinced but was determined to speak to someone in the UK about this. I tried calling them this morning (see here (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33646277-best-time-to-call.html#post34739461) about my post about it) but gave up.
I then had an offer of help from one of the VM guys who posts on here (I won't give his posting name unless he is happy to do so himself) and i sent him an email explaining all the hassle I've had.
Within 10 minutes he'd sent me an email back saying he's identified the fault which was causing the drops (my RX Power is ranging and exceeding its tolerances) and an engineer has been booked. He also made it clear that the guys in India have access to the same tools he used to diagnosed that fault.
My issue is not about the fault - we've got to the bottom of it and with luck the engineer will sort it when he arrives.
What annoys me is I've spoken to 9 different indian agents and not one could identify the problem, instead giving me 9 different 'fixes'.
I get 1 email from a UK agent and we get to the bottom of it almost straight away.
that sort of thing sums up the problem with Indian callcentres.
Virgin Media - 'bollards' (not the word I actually meant to use) to your "We're listening to you" campaign. Sort your Indian tech support out. If any of the 9 agents had looked over my notes they'd have seen the history of my problem and could have fixed it weeks ago. had they bothered to run the same diagnostic tool as the guy on here did, we'd have solved it weeks ago.
Raistlin
24-02-2009, 14:17
A big :tu: for whichever of our resident 'staffers' it was that helped you on the road to getting this resolved, job well done.
southwell
24-02-2009, 14:33
Which is unfortunately the problem with people reading off 'crib sheets' they just wont listen to you, no matter what your technical understanding is. Anyway :tu: to the person who sorted it.
I've just asked him if I can publically acknowledge him in this thread.
I respect the privacy of any VM staffer who assists on here and if he permits me to post his CF name I'll have no hesitation in doing so.
broadbandking
24-02-2009, 15:01
I like a happy ending to a story
Milambar
24-02-2009, 15:23
I'm glad you got it sorted, and I'm glad you knew those who were able to sort it out for you. Thousands don't have that honor, and have to deal only with the Indians, and never getting things fixed, and thus end up paying for broken services.
What puzzles me, is the Indians Ive met over IRC, are all technically capable, and able, being some of the smartest people I know. Yet put them in a call center... "Please be rebooting modem now sir, please." is all they can apparently say.
To be fair I didn't go seeking anyone's help. It was offered to me via PM on this site, as happens to lots of users here.
---------- Post added at 17:11 ---------- Previous post was at 16:26 ----------
As it stands the user in question has requested anonymity which I'm happy to comply with.
I've just asked him if I can publically acknowledge him in this thread.
I respect the privacy of any VM staffer who assists on here and if he permits me to post his CF name I'll have no hesitation in doing so.
Nice one to the Virgin staff member and best not to publicise your efforts as you never know who reads this forum.;) plus it stops PMs for help beyond your remit.
KingDaveRa
24-02-2009, 19:03
Which is unfortunately the problem with people reading off 'crib sheets' they just wont listen to you, no matter what your technical understanding is. Anyway :tu: to the person who sorted it.
QFT
I've dealt with both Zen and I found that they were technically very good. They seemed to be ACTUAL techies, and they really did know their stuff. I had random conversations about the issues and had real answers, rather than the usual 'I'll have to find out'. Be's weren't quite as good, as although they seemed to know their stuff, they made you do everything per the book. Some of them were quite technical, but obviously they had targets or something because they'd get you off the phone as quickly as possible, which wasn't great.
Trouble is, getting actual techies onto support lines isn't all that hard, but getting them to STAY there is! I know at work our techies loath doing support desk, as it is such mind-numblingly boring stuff to do, sorting the same issues over and over. A mate of mine worked on the support line of a PC vendor, and had similar issues. You've got to keep your techies motivated; Sophos's techies seem to be given time to play with things, as they've often mumbled things about seeing similar issues 'on the test network' or 'when I installed it', which suggests they get hands-on with the stuff they support.
Virgin's support staff really do need to be:
1. UK-based
2. "Eating the dog-food" - using a VM connection themselves, or at least have access to one to play with it, and know what it actually does and the little foibles and niggles you just can't find out from a crib sheet.
3. Real techies
Nothing against the Indian call centres per se - I've dealt with some and they were stellar, but I thought it rather telling that having once phoned Barclaycard, I got to an Indian guy in account enquiries who had to put me onto the anti-fraud guys who were based... in the UK.
Nothing against the Indian call centres per se - I've dealt with some and they were stellar, but I thought it rather telling that having once phoned Barclaycard, I got to an Indian guy in account enquiries who had to put me onto the anti-fraud guys who were based... in the UK.
Reminds me of that advert for BT's Business Broadband Service, they offer tech support in UK-only callcentres :erm:
Virgin's support staff really do need to be:
1. UK-based
2. "Eating the dog-food" - using a VM connection themselves, or at least have access to one to play with it, and know what it actually does and the little foibles and niggles you just can't find out from a crib sheet.
3. Real techies
You will find that the are quite a few who fit the above criteria in all 3 UK call centres and some of them even post on here as if doing this in work was'nt enough.:D
I personally am a customer first and have all 3 services that Virgin supply and even a Virgin mobile phone.
Glad the problem is getting sorted out. Whenever I called the "Indian" call ctr, they insist on taking you through the menu, &, despite my request asking them if they can deal with a specific problem, they insist they can sort it, & continue with the spiel. Only when I describe the fault do they say "Sorry" we cannot.........., by then its too late, I`m fuming.
Nowadays, whenever I call, the first thing I say is, "are you in India", if the answers yes, I reply, goodbye.
Perhaps for modem requests, they are OK, but in my experience, they are less than useless.
They could do themselves a world of good by actually talking like we do. Like when you go through the security questions etc they always something like "Thank you for confirming this information".
Nobody in UK callcentres says "Thank you for confirming this information". They say things like "thanks for that". The Indians just try too hard to be natural and it stands out massively. That puts me off immediately.
General Maximus
24-02-2009, 21:29
are you sure the problem the problem was with the RX power? I am sure you must have a virus on your pc :D
Sad it got to the point were you had to call any center 9 times with the same fault.
I'd like to think continued training is taking place to further the knowledge of agents who are not quite up to speed.
Its nice to see you finally got support before you:
A) canceled your services.
Or
B) Tore out your hair.
B) Tore out your hair.
Hmmm, there's something you ought to know about me :D
I think your routers at fault Sir!! :D
---------- Post added at 22:00 ---------- Previous post was at 21:59 ----------
I actually got an email link from VM to one of their surveys and took the time to fill it out, all was glowing and the only negative comment i left was regarding Indian call centres, they really let VM down. :(
Perhaps its the training they get?
They could do themselves a world of good by actually talking like we do. Like when you go through the security questions etc they always something like "Thank you for confirming this information".
Nobody in UK callcentres says "Thank you for confirming this information". They say things like "thanks for that". The Indians just try too hard to be natural and it stands out massively. That puts me off immediately.
Steady on Russ, that's a little bit unfair, after all, the tech is only being polite. You say "the Indians try too hard to be natural"; it'd be a lot harder for us if they gave advice in Urdu. They're also dealing with issues in real time, often with irate callers, which makes the task harder.
Steady on Russ, that's a little bit unfair, after all, the tech is only being polite. You say "the Indians try too hard to be natural"; it'd be a lot harder for us if they gave advice in Urdu. They're also dealing with issues in real time, often with irate callers, which makes the task harder.
I disagree I'm being unfair at all. If I'm paying for a service from someone over the phone I need to feel like I'm connecting with them on some level. I need to feel some kind of rapport otherwise I've got no confidence in their ability to understand my issue. If their choice of wording, or the training they've been given makes it all feel forced and fake then I'm not going to have any confidence in them at all, regardless of country of origin.
I disagree I'm being unfair at all. If I'm paying for a service from someone over the phone I need to feel like I'm connecting with them on some level. I need to feel some kind of rapport otherwise I've got no confidence in their ability to understand my issue. If their choice of wording, or the training they've been given makes it all feel forced and fake then I'm not going to have any confidence in them at all, regardless of country of origin.
That's a tough call I reckon. I can understand your expectation for technical ability but I can also see how the more subtle and intuitive CS skills might get lost in translation so to speak.
frogstamper
25-02-2009, 00:17
It seems to me that more and more UK companies are bringing back their CS call centres to the UK, in fact companies like Saga are now using "UK call centers" as a selling point in their advertising.
What I'm sure looked good on paper to some bean counter looking at saving a few quid, has on the whole been a failure, VM employee's I have spoken to have told me that complaints about the Indian call center are one of the biggest beefs customers have.
In fact VM are well aware how unpopular these call centers are, so much so that they launched a campaign over Christmas showing employee's in India being retrained, along with the comment that overseas call centers needn't be second rate, unfortunately in my opinion they invariably are.
Most VM customers rarely have to call CS but on occasion when they do its generally with a problem, now even the most tolerant customer starts to despair when for the 20th time you have to repeat, "I'm sorry can you say that again please", especially when its obvious that the person is reading from a pre-scripted list of responses, the fact he/she has been doing this all day and every day becomes apparent when the response becomes faster and faster, ending in the classic, "can you please repeat that please", this nightmare merry-go-round can become soul destroying.
As Russ says the sheer elation at getting someone in the UK who can diagnose and generally fix your problem is palpable, at this point I'd like to add that on a number of occasions on getting through to the UK call center I've received excellent service from British Indians, its not a case about being "anti-Indian" its simply expecting to understand and be understood by the person your talking too, not to much to ask is it.?
Come on VM, make your customers happy and bring back CS to the UK.
Come on VM, make your customers happy and bring back CS to the UK.
...and you can bet your bottom dollar that all the vitriol about the present customer services will come with it! You really think VM's customers will be happy when they are dealing with UK CS? ;)
Their wording is just so wrong. One of the indians I spoke to kept calling me 'Mr Russ' which annoyed me no end. When I corrected him he replied ''I apologise for the inconvenience''. I know he was just being polite but did he really think his addressing me wrongly was somehow 'inconveniencing' me? They learn how to speak our language but not *how to speak like us*. Until that is corrected I'll always do whatever possible to avoid speaking to their Indian callcentre.
Their wording is just so wrong. One of the indians I spoke to kept calling me 'Mr Russ' which annoyed me no end. When I corrected him he replied ''I apologise for the inconvenience''. I know he was just being polite but did he really think his addressing me wrongly was somehow 'inconveniencing' me? They learn how to speak our language but not *how to speak like us*. Until that is corrected I'll always do whatever possible to avoid speaking to their Indian callcentre.
You're a hard man Mr Russ; I think that's rather quaint :) The Queen's English is rarely heard in the UK never mind anywhere else! Are we to take the same attitude to regional accents here? :)
You're a hard man Mr Russ; I think that's rather quaint :) The Queen's English is rarely heard in the UK never mind anywhere else! Are we to take the same attitude to regional accents here? :)
I have no idea what you're trying to suggest but my point is clear. For me to have confidence in someone to understand my issue and help resolve my problem I need to have a level of rapport with them. And when they use wording that nobody in the UK uses (other than teachers of English to other nationalities) my confidence in them goes through the floor.
Ok. In the interests of maintaining a rapport with you (and my board membership :D) I'll leave it at that.
Glad your tech probs are all sorted.
Russ is making a valid point there. When you phone for assistance, the least you expect is to be able to communicate with someone who understands, not a robotic type who you have difficulty understanding.
When we make these calls its because we have already tried to put things right, & invariably know what we want. A UK call ctr will cut the patter short & get on with the problem, whereas the Indian ctrs tend to "wind you up" with their robotic type rhetoric.
Virgin cable is for the UK market, so we have a right to expect a certain standard when we need assistance. The Indian call ctrs simply don't measure up.
I called back in mid january to say about a problem with my internet (It kept cutting out). I got through first time to an indian call centre, they said the system was down at their end so they couldnt investigate. I called the next day (Saturday), and got a british guy who was very helpful, within 5 minutes he'd checked on the system and said the problem was with my STB and booked an engineer for the following monday.
I phoned up VM to find out where the said engineer was, I got through to an indian call centre again, and the woman said she'd canceled the guy as there was an area fault. No notice to us however that it was an area fault. That was mainly the content of the calls for the next few days.
On the thursday, I phoned up again, and got another indian women, it was only then she recommended a cable modem might fix it. So an another guy was booked and he came the next day and it was all sorted within 20 or so minutes.
He said area faults would usually be fixed within 12 hours at most. Took 6 or so days to get an answer from the call centres, it was "an area fault" for most of the time.
Milambar
25-02-2009, 01:34
I understand what Mr. Russ is saying (ducks for cover).
We are English people, who speak English, who phone for assistance off an English (well, legally an American) company, to whom we are paying substantial amounts of English currency to, to obtain services in England.
Is it really acceptable that in order to query a problem, that we have to speak to people who can't speak our language very well? I don't think so. I have no issue that they are Indian, I just wish they:
A) Would stop sounding like they were chewing a brick.
B) Speak normal English.
C) Actually fix the damn problems, instead of "fobbing us off" in order to close the call quickly.
We are English people, who speak English, who phone for assistance off an English (well, legally an American) company, to whom we are paying substantial amounts of English currency to, to obtain services in England.
Some of us are Welsh and wish to obtain services in Wales.
graf_von_anonym
25-02-2009, 03:09
Judging by the avatars, I'd say some of us are Scottish too.
As for the Indian call centres, I'll just say what I always say, which is that it's because no matter what ISPs or insurance companies or roadside assistance firms do in terms of providing services, the reason most folk give for switching is price and when folk call to cancel [whether or not they've gone through any other support or complaint process] they can, more often than not, be retained by reducing the... price. So when companies keep seeing that people want things to cost less, and often care about it more than anything else, and this is something that they can measure, they'll do everything they can to keep costs down so their profits don't get too squeezed. This means outsourcing, cutbacks, off-shoring, delayed maintenance, service adjustments.
My point is this: don't vote with your wallets. That just ensures it's the only language they understand. Don't make this about nationality. That way lies petty jingoism, almost guaranteed offence. Ask for help you can use, and if you don't get it, ask again. Write letters. Change the venue, change the debate. There's a definition of insanity that involves doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
You raise legit points but what makes it difficult is I only call tech support when something goes wrong and in my experience that doesn't happen very often. I'm otherwise very pleased with the service. The download speeds are very close to the advertised rate, the pings are fine and the price doesn't compare to VM's competitors. We could make a stand against VM having Indian tech support but that would mean paying more for slower speeds.
I would be very reluctant to chose that course of action.
southwell
25-02-2009, 08:11
You've got to keep your techies motivated; Sophos's techies seem to be given time to play with things, as they've often mumbled things about seeing similar issues 'on the test network' or 'when I installed it', which suggests they get hands-on with the stuff they support.
Sophos have a completely separate network on their third floor for testing and such, it really is a very nice building. I have never spoken to anyone who isn't pleasant and motivated to do their best there. Saying that, they have a first line support which just put you through to the right support team, which sort out my issues 90% of the time, i very rarely have to go to their top support team.
Russ I don't think your problem is to do with "Indian" call centres but more with the fact that you got through to a call centre who A) weren't able to help you and B) couldn't communicate with you clearly.
I've dealt with East European call centres and Indian ones before. If they employ competent people who know what they are doing and can speak clearly then it isn't a problem at all, with one company I only knew it was a foreign call centre because of the number I had to call. The guy I spoke to knew what he was talking about, could speak clear English and during a few reboots we were able to just have a general chat.
It seems the VM Indian call centre and a lot of the other ones are staffed by people who just aren't experienced at working in a call centre, have no background IT training and so just work from a script which leads to a bad experience all round, add in the fact the line is very bad so it makes it hard to understand and a very thick accent that isn't easy to understand either and this is where the problems start to come in
cook1984
25-02-2009, 21:11
The best thing to do is put on your best "Rab C. Nesbit" accent to confuse them, until eventually when they can't even get your account number keep repeating "Can ye put somebody who speaks English pal?".
VM have a similar problem to a lot of large utility companies. They have millions of customers, and the vast majority are clueless and barely know how to operate their PCs. That means they get a lot of really basic issues every day, which can be solved by simple things like rebooting or running a virus scan. They can't afford to employ enough knowledgeable staff to answer all these calls, so they employ Indians whose cluelessness is only matched by that of the customers.
In theory, if they can't help you, you should be put though to someone in the UK who actually knows something, but the problem is they are pressured to escalate as few calls as possible. They are also trained to ignore you and insist on going through the same pointless routine every time you call, no matter how many times you tell them that the last bloke said the same thing and it didn't work etc. etc.
So, on the one hand I wish VM would do better, but on the other I can see their dilemma. If it's any consolation, VM are not the worst, that accolade goes to PC World. Just today a customer brought their PC in to ask if we could fix it because it would not boot. All it needed was a virus scan and Windows repair. She had just come from PC World where The Tech Guys told her the machine was dead and she should buy a new laptop.
graf_von_anonym
27-02-2009, 01:36
PCWorld are legendary for the quality of their advice. The only stories I know that beat them are the ones about Best Buy in the States.
Again, it's about cost and motivation. The easiest way to motivate staff is to treat them well and pay them decently. Sadly, those both cost money. So you'll get unmotivated, even desperate staff, and, well, it all goes downhill from there. While VM have call centres with a variety of outsource partners in deprived areas like Wales, Liverpool, and Bonne Ecosse, at least their staff tend not to be semiliterate goons on JobSeekers crammed into polo-shirts and stuck behind a temporary wall in a commercial estate off the ring-road.
Could we please remember to be as polite as we can about the staff who work in call centres and visit this forum..also let us try to avoid making sweeping statements about people living in certain areas.
Not everyone living in places likes Wales or Liverpool would regard themselves as being deprived. ;)
Could we please remember to be as polite as we can about the staff who work in call centres and visit this forum..also let us try to avoid making sweeping statements about people living in certain areas.
Not everyone living in places like Wales or Liverpool would regard themselves as being deprived. ;)
Well said (except this thread's been full of sweeping statements since the OP). Right, so far the Scots, Welsh, Indians and Liverpudlians have been insulted; who's next? :sleep:
When we moved house recently we had a delay in getting the internet enabled (were stuck in that sandbox where it'll only send you to the account setup process among other issues). Rang tech support and got through to India who proceeded to go through their entire script before coming to the conclusion that "your TCP IPs are wrong please reinstall Windows" (everytime I've got through to India it's concluded with them blaming Microsoft and telling me to reformat my PC). At this point I gave up, agreed and hung up realizing I was going to get naff all sense from this clown. Rang back and got through the most beautiful sound to hear on the end of the phone - a UK based call centre and a very nice Welsh guy listened to what was actually wrong and sorted the issue within about 2 minutes... after laughing when he heard my relief that thank God it wasn't another Indian agent.
The great India call centre experiment didn't work. I worked for a while at an energy company that had realized this and pulled their operations back to the UK - and the number of messed up accounts we had to fix that had been dealt with by the Indian operation, who appeared to have just antagonized customers who had rung up with really straightforward queries and ended up with collossal escalated calls - was ridiculous.
If I get Virgin India tech support - I just hang up and redial now, it's not worth the waste of my time, the agent's time and my blood pressure to try to get some sense from it because they always always always just tell me to reinstall windows or something completely ridiculous.
I think sherer summed up my feelings. I don't mind Indian Call-centers as long as they are competent and I feel I can understand them. From my own experience, the Dell Indian call centre staff I've spoken to have been pretty good, with good English skills.
Virgin Indian call centre staff, on the other hand, I've got frustrated with in the past because their English hasn't been very good, which is understandable (as it's not their native language), but could be rectified by better training or better selection of staff.
Thankfully I've now sidestepped the problem by using the Newsgroup instead of the phone for support. I think it's telling that Virgin doesn't use Indian call centre staff to sell you your packages, preferring English call staff for this activity.
Well said (except this thread's been full of sweeping statements since the OP). Right, so far the Scots, Welsh, Indians and Liverpudlians have been insulted; who's next? :sleep:
The thing is there's no way to be politcally correct about this - the fact is I've had awful support when I've spoken to the frontline staff in India. ( different people offered 9 different solutions to my connection problem and none of them worked. 1 UK worker finds the problem within 10 minutes with the same tools India use.
"Quaint" indeed.
The thing is there's no way to be politcally correct about this - the fact is I've had awful support when I've spoken to the frontline staff in India. ( different people offered 9 different solutions to my connection problem and none of them worked. 1 UK worker finds the problem within 10 minutes with the same tools India use.
"Quaint" indeed.
We do not follow a script and actually use said tools to diagnose the issue.
The are good agents in the off shore call centres but they are overshadowed by the poor reputation that the others give them, which causes customers to hang up when they answer the phone.
The thing is hanging up does not work it just makes their call stats look good from quick short calls.
cook1984
27-02-2009, 20:59
I think sherer summed up my feelings. I don't mind Indian Call-centers as long as they are competent and I feel I can understand them. From my own experience, the Dell Indian call centre staff I've spoken to have been pretty good, with good English skills.
I have had a lot of experience with Dell India, and to be fair they are quite good for consumer stuff. Their corporate stuff is a joke though - £100+VAT per hour for some idiot reading a script to try and fix your business critical Exchange server.
I think what really annoys people is that the person on the other end is just reading from a script, and cannot deviate from it no matter what you tell them. It's easy to get into a situation where the script can't fix whatever problem you have, meaning the call centre can't fix the problem you have but equally can't pass you on to anyone with more education and knowledge than the ability to read.
Actually, I take that back. Sometimes when you call Microsoft India, they can't even read the numbers on screen out properly.
testcard
27-02-2009, 21:10
A thought from those that are hard of hearing.
Back Story
Your TV/Internet is not working, you are starting as an unhappy customer.
The Phone Menu
A lot of information, sometimes confusing,even if you hear clearly.
Redial. Listen again.
Become annoyed with your failings and everbody elses.
Redail and press a number.
The Wait
Say hello to the person saying 'Thank you for waiting', for 23 minutes.
You have become increasingly uncomfortable as you are unclear of who is talking to you or it's just a recording.
The Answer
Someone called 'Patrick' answers. He has a light voice and to you a muffled diction. It difficult to understand the questions. The man is polite but has no empathy for your situation.
The Close
Patrick thanks you for choosing Virginmedia and goes. You have a not clue whats going on.
The Wait
Nothing happens, you are cross and upset with yourself and the entire world.
Phone your son, after a week and let him sort it.
Not everybody is lean, fit and twenty two.
The thing is there's no way to be politcally correct about this - the fact is I've had awful support when I've spoken to the frontline staff in India. ( different people offered 9 different solutions to my connection problem and none of them worked. 1 UK worker finds the problem within 10 minutes with the same tools India use.
"Quaint" indeed.
Oh come on Mr Russ (:erm:) don't be so grumpy. I hope all the young people in India who work hard for much less than people are paid in the UK don't think we're all a bunch of miserable old men and women. The British and Indian people have always got on well together often because their patience counterbalances the way we are sometimes intrusively rude.
Don't let a pc get in the way of being pc ;)
Oh come on Mr Russ (:erm:) don't be so grumpy. I hope all the young people in India who work hard for much less than people are paid in the UK don't think we're all a bunch of miserable old men and women. The British and Indian people have always got on well together often because their patience counterbalances the way we are sometimes intrusively rude.
Don't let a pc get in the way of being pc ;)
You seem not to think this way but I feel totaly justified in being disatisfied with a section of VM's service over my recent experiences. 9 different people failed to spot the problem and the common denominator was they were in in the Indian callcentre. 1 UK agent spots the problem almost immediately.
You don't see anything wrong enough there for me to justify my post?
You seem not to think this way but I feel totaly justified in being disatisfied with a section of VM's service over my recent experiences. 9 different people failed to spot the problem and the common denominator was they were in in the Indian callcentre. 1 UK agent spots the problem almost immediately.
You don't see anything wrong enough there for me to justify my post?
As I said this seems to be a problem with the whole call centre and the training they are given. They could have opened this up in somewhere else in the Uk and done the same thing. It seems clear the idea of the call centre is to just employ people with technical or PC knowledge and just give them a script to use to solve the problems. Anyone of us who work in this industry know that doesn't really work and leads to all sorts of problems.
If call call centre was staffed by people who had been on a proper training course and were knowledgable to start with before they got the job then I don't think it would have been a problem.
By just giving the call centre the ability to read from a script they will never solve all the problems and will lead to customers being angry and upset but that could happen if this same call centre was in the UK with the same processes
There seems to be 2 schools of thought here.
One that says we are paying for a service and not getting it because those delivering it are substandard and we should be disatsified with it.
The other seems to say ok the service seems to be bad but they apparently "work hard" and get paid less so although we aren't getting the level of service we expect, we should not complain regardless of the fact we're paying for it.
So it seems to be ok to suffer from slow speeds and complain about the poor service but not ok to complain about poor technical support which is part of the service.
Guess which school of though I'm from.
I'm lucky so far I haven't ever got put through to an Indian call centre yet.
However I can understand why these people keep to a script as they will have little knowledge of the product little knowledge of computers and won't have any direct access to someone who does.
Virgin would cease to use these centres if we all had the nerve to ring up and cancel our broadband as the losses would out weigh the savings it's costs to hire script "monkeys". However the British nature is too put up with substandard service and not complain too much as me may offend. Hence Virgin can get away with it.
Ukonline have a call centre in Ireland and did briefly hire some script "monkeys". I had a rare failure from this ISP so rang up and got an Irish bloke who dropped the script straight away as I had done all the trouble shooting. He went away to check things out and said call back in hour if the problem persists. Gave me a reference number. Called back an hour later and got a script monkey. Jesus would he clung to the script like a limpet. The problem he had is that 2nd line support didn't want to talk to any customers and they were telling him to use the script despite a previous call being logged and I was beginning to rather annoyed been asked to do the same checks already done. In the end I said "Listen I need to talk to the 2nd line I know they don't want to take calls and I'm getting rather annoyed with you so you need to pass me through as you're the one getting the flak which isn't right." he passed me through. The problem being very odd didn't get resolved but at least I spoke to someone else who recognised there was a problem. In the end the solution was too leave the modem disconnected for 24 hours and bingo everything fixed itself. The modem carried on working years and I still got it as a spare.
I can only judge tech support by my own experience which I admit is limited because I'm getting a good enough service in the first place so I don't have to contact them that much. When I have, it's been fine. They speak to me politely and in my language (not their own) and I make allowance for that. I cut them some slack, but that's just me, I'm nice.
It is of course your prerogative to complain if your experience of any part of a service doesn't meet the standard you expect but keep in mind how many know-it-all's ring tech support - the people who ring up in a bad mood giving directions about what is wrong and how tech ought to do this and ought to do that. Of course there's a script. Tech have no idea what your real ability is and they don't know what you've tried (and in what order) so they have to take you through basic steps so that they know for real what point has been reached in resolving your problem.
Seems to be if they do this in a polite manner, it gets on some people's wick. Perhaps it would be better if it went like this:
You: Hi, my connection is playing up.
Tech: You dumb mofo stop messing with the settings.
You: But I haven't, I pay for a better service than this.
Tech: If you just stfu for a moment, I'll try to fix it for you.
You: I have never been spoken to so rudely in all my life.
Tech: Yeah? Well VM tech is in Norf London now so get used to it.
You: I think I'll move to adsl.
Tech: Good, it'll make my life easier.
You: Tech was much better when it was run from India.
Tech: Are you ever happy?
You: Perhaps I do get a bit over-excited about my internet connection.
Tech: Believe me sir, cable may not be perfect but it's better than the alternative.
You: I feel better now.
Tech: Have a good day sir.
;) Chwarae Teg Russ.
Not sure how your extreme example has anything to do with the fact that 9 indians failed to spot my problem yet 1 UK agent picked it up using exactly the same tools. How polite they are is totally irrelevant. If I want polite support I'll call my local Age Concern. If I want and expect my connection to be fixed I should be able to do so by calling Virgin's tech support. As it turned out it took an offer of help on this site for me to get it fixed.
But you do expect a certain brand of politeness or to be less irritated in the way you are spoken to http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34739873-post13.html.
I accept that getting your connection fixed is (rightly) the priority; just seems to me tech are a soft target sometimes.
The clue of good support is a good tech knowledge of the product you're supporting and only using a script too guide a none technical user through the fault checking.
I find it very useful when someone rings up and go I've done and that and this and I've still got a problem.
But you do expect a certain brand of politeness or to be less irritated in the way you are spoken to http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34739873-post13.html.
I accept that getting your connection fixed is (rightly) the priority; just seems to me tech are a soft target sometimes.
I don't know how Virgin tech support agents have their set-up but when 9 of them in one country can't spot the problem yet 1 in the UK can, with exactly the same tools, they leave themselves extremely wide open to be a soft target, and rightly so in my case. 9 is beyond a forgivable or understandable amount.
chickendippers
28-02-2009, 16:54
I'm not hugely bothered where the call centre is geographically as long as they are able to resolve problems effectively. However it does seem that the UK call centres are generally better at this. That said there have been occasions in my experience where the UK call centres haven't been able to resolve my issue either.
I have no problem with going "through the script" with a 1st level tech the first time I raise an issue as they need to be sure you've done all the obvious stuff and check your account is in order. The problem seems to lie with escalation (in both continents).
Milambar
28-02-2009, 17:29
I have no problems going through the script either, when I can understand what they are saying, provided thatwhen the script fails to fix the problem, they DON'T blame "winsock problem, reinstall windows. Thankyou bye bye.", they actually admit they can't fix it, and escalate it to someone who can.
So far, when I've spoken to India, the problem has been:
Winsock problem, reinstall windows. (Identical problem on a non-windows PC tho).
Spyware (on a linux machine)
Speedtests are inaccurate, bye bye. (I was reporting my modems config was still set at 2MB a week after I had upgraded to 10MB)
In each case, all those problems were resolved within minutes of reaching a UK based agent, or the newsgroup.
Put short, the Indian call centers only seem to be interested in closing the call asap, to keep their call rates up. They might be lovely people, but as technical support agents, in my experience, they suck.
Down the Pub
28-02-2009, 17:57
i thought was a funny read re. call centres
http://forums.hexus.net/networking-broadband/158648-virgin-media-exploding-cable-modems.html
never had anything like that, but had my fair share of problems with them.
georgepomone
28-02-2009, 18:18
Hi All,
I don't make any excuses or comments on how bad or how good the Indian Support is. The reason is I, like many others remember ntl support at it's best. Remember those day's Russ. If I had to call for any support I had to prepare myself for the call. It was usually the customers fault regardless of what the fault was. I lost my temper a few times I remember. I once had a Supervisor tell me I was thick and to get off the phone. No use complaining they didn't believe you anyway. Happy Days.
All this of course in due time led to the creation of this sites origanal formation. It's all been fun over the years. Of course we didn't think so at the time. So thanks to all those friends past and present who have helped customers like me and you.
Best Wishes to All.
George.
I don't know how Virgin tech support agents have their set-up but when 9 of them in one country can't spot the problem yet 1 in the UK can, with exactly the same tools, they leave themselves extremely wide open to be a soft target, and rightly so in my case. 9 is beyond a forgivable or understandable amount.
Like I said, I can only go by my own experience. But beyond that, will it really help for one of the moderators on the best cable forum in the UK to be so openly critical? The training provided to the techs is the training provided; I think these guys would be feeling pretty glum about the service they try to provide if they were to read this. Sherer has made this point very well a few times. I dunno, perhaps all us computer types are just inherently miserable.
Like I said, I can only go by my own experience. But beyond that, will it really help for one of the moderators on the best cable forum in the UK to be so openly critical?
And why not? Am I to play down a company's failings just to be PC? Perhaps it will have the opposite effect, perhaps my comments will be noticed?
I have the right to pass comment on VM's service as much as anyone, my position on the team makes no difference. I post within the T&Cs, and my comments stand.
I don't know how Virgin tech support agents have their set-up but when 9 of them in one country can't spot the problem yet 1 in the UK can, with exactly the same tools, they leave themselves extremely wide open to be a soft target, and rightly so in my case. 9 is beyond a forgivable or understandable amount.
---------- Post added at 19:48 ---------- Previous post was at 19:45 ----------
Like I said, I can only go by my own experience. But beyond that, will it really help for one of the moderators on the best cable forum in the UK to be so openly critical? The training provided to the techs is the training provided; I think these guys would be feeling pretty glum about the service they try to provide if they were to read this. Sherer has made this point very well a few times. I dunno, perhaps all us computer types are just inherently miserable.
The thing is Russ is quite correct to complain because quite often the UK call centres have to clean up the mess left by Off shore and mend fences with customers, plus it is now a question of who do we in the UK trust to fix our fault Off shore or UK based, maybe we should put that to a vote and run a poll.
General Maximus
28-02-2009, 19:48
I think these guys would be feeling pretty glum about the service they try to provide if they were to read this.
I am sorry but I am with Russ on this one. When I ring a tech support number and tell them my internet is dead (once a year if that) there is nothing more annoying than them telling me they have run some tests, nothing is wrong and I must have a virus, and that is after speaking to only one person.
At the end of the day the issue isn't with indian people, it is to do with cheap staffing and poor training to cut down costs no matter whether they be in Indian, China, America or Scotland. I am sure we would all moan just as much if they offered such poor service if it was an english call center.
As for how they feel? Screw them, they should be more worried about how we feel. If they were good customer service people and took pride in their work they would want to make sure every customer was happy with the service they provide and the problem was resolved instead of telling them a load of crap to get them off the phone. I am normally more than happy to pile on the praise where it is due but the tech support guys are thing about VM that really get to me :mad:
Ignitionnet
28-02-2009, 20:10
Much as I hate misusing the Newsgroup guys as '1st line' support better to use them and get issues resolved than to waste my time with the guys in India. Every time I've spoken with the tech support agents in India I've always ended up having a disagreement with them, from them saying that even though my STB was transmitting at 61dBmV it was all fine because it was connected (for the first time in a while) through to my most recent entertainment with them, a simple password change to fix my non-functional self-care and that took 3 calls...
They are abysmal and clearly not really trained in any technical way. They are trained in a bit of customer service and run through flowcharts, they have no idea what they are actually supporting nor how it works.
They are bluntly a liability, they waste customer's time, lower customer satisfaction levels within Virgin Media, and need to either be much better trained or support needs to be brought back onshore.
Someone needs to get through to VM in no uncertain terms that offshore support at its' cheapest does not work, this isn't just my opinion this is official and proven both by studies into customer satisfaction and value along with companies that have brought support back to the UK after finding it a false economy to outsource.
That they had the gall to charge for this at one time is absolutely astounding.
Milambar
28-02-2009, 20:33
That they had the gall to charge for this at one time is absolutely astounding.
I remember that period. £1.85/minute for an unsupport call because I only had a mobile phone at the time. Ouch.
Having just read the whole thread, I can't understand why no one has pointed out the obvious.
It took 10 phone calls in total to rectify, had call ten actually been call one then the other nine calls would not have needed to be made. How exactly do nine extra phone calls (no matter where the operatives are based) actually translate into a cheaper service for VM or the customer?
I have had very similar experiences with the "off shore" call centres, whilst they may speak English, they do not understand the English language! I do not like having my time wasted by someone who likes the sound of their voice! They always feel the need to repeat themselves time and time again, telling you what they are going to do, how they are going to do it, what they are actually doing, what they have done and what they can do in the future!!!!
They always feel the need to repeat themselves time and time again, telling you what they are going to do, how they are going to do it, what they are actually doing, what they have done and what they can do in the future!!!!
Oh my word YES!!! It makes you wonder how much of each call is wasted with them repeating everything, telling you what they have done, will do, might do etc instead of just getting on with it as people in UK callcenters do.
At the very most they should ask us if we want to know what happened - chances are the caller won't want to out of desperation to get off the phone as well as the assumption that notes will be placed on the account explaining it all.
I forgot to add, what would be a very interesting study or read if the study has already been carried out is exactly what the stats are for a first time fix for UK call ctr, and a first time fix for off shore call ctr's. Also which location gets the most repeat calls etc? I am pretty sure I already know the answer!
Wow, you guys must have tech support in 'family and friends' in your address book. Perhaps it's me. Perhaps I haven't had to call them much - well, no, I haven't but when I have it's been fine. Could be I'm just lucky.
I also think there's nothing wrong in keeping you informed of progress in resolving your issue. They seem damned if they speak and damned if they don't. Sheesh.
Noone is questioning anyone's right to comment and clearly my view is in the minority here. If people are so dissatisfied with the performance of the Indians, maybe it is time to give the cowboys a turn :D.
I wonder if then you'll be any happier.
Turkey Machine
01-03-2009, 00:45
This is why they offer tech support free when you take their phone line. Any other phone provider you use to call Virgin Media's Tech Support costs a LOT of money! I spent about £10 on my mobile phone credit (Vodafone PAYG) trying to activate my modem with them, one final call early(ish) in the day to a UK call centre (thank the good Lord) and it was all sorted! They never refunded it either. The calls to the Indian call centres I made I struggled to understand them, I was straining to hear them, trying to translate what they were saying (they weren't saying it in Hindi, just very strong "Indian English").
This sort of problem wouldn't happen if we had call centres in the UK. Companies are only trying to make a quick fast buck by out-sourcing them, and it only hurts the consumer.
I also think there's nothing wrong in keeping you informed of progress in resolving your issue. They seem damned if they speak and damned if they don't. Sheesh.
I'd say pretty much none of us want to be on the phone to any tech support and even less of us are interested in the progress. What we want is results. We don't need a running commentary. We want an agent to just get on with what they're doing and let us know if they've found the fault and if it's fixed.
You know, like they tend to do in the UK callcentres.
General Maximus
01-03-2009, 08:25
so say we all :)
mabseyuk
01-03-2009, 12:22
A typical phone call I had recently with the indian call centre:
Me: Hello, Could I speak with the 50mb support Team Please
India: Yes Sir, this is the 50mb Technical Support Team, how Can I help you?
Me: Are you sure you can support 50mb?
India: Yes Sir, I support 20mb and 50mb.
Me: Ok Thanks, I am still having problems with my upload and download speeds on the 50mb service.
India: Can I take your details and password blah blah.
Me: Gives Info
India: Ok sir, can you tell me what speed you are getting
Me: I'm getting 900k upload speed and only 26mb download speed.
India: 900k upload speed is fine sir, you should be getting 768k (My Alarm bell starts to ring)
Me: I'm on the 50mb Service, it should be up to 1.5mb and also, I'm only getting 26mb download speed.
India: Yes sir these speeds are fine for your package. (Oh Dear!)
Me, Aggrevated: No, I am on 50mb, these speeds are not fine!
India: You are on 50mb, hold on sir, let me transfer you to the 50mb team, can you hold?
Me: Waits on hold music for 4 minutes.
India: I am sorry sir I can't put you through to the 50mb line. Can I give you there number.
He then gives me a 0800 number. I ring, I get long number not is use tone, I chucks phone at wall.
Some are better than others, but to tell me he deals with 50mb, what a joke and waste of 10 minutes of time.
Mabs
I'd say pretty much none of us want to be on the phone to any tech support and even less of us are interested in the progress. What we want is results. We don't need a running commentary. We want an agent to just get on with what they're doing and let us know if they've found the fault and if it's fixed.
You know, like they tend to do in the UK callcentres.
so say we all :)
A group hug and/or high fives would seem appropriate *waits for male bonding to subside* ;)
H'ok. Well, I still doubt it very much that if Tech was UK-based everyone would be content with the new support Utopia. Let's face it, whoever is trying to keep VM's customers happy has got his/her work cut out. Lots of people seem only to use the net for checking that their connection is up to speed...
Just how many times are you guys contacting tech? Perhaps the 9 different agents you spoke to Russ were the same bloke doing support Rory Bremner style :D
ps looks like things (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34742544-post7.html) are getting worse!
A typical phone call I had recently with the indian call centre:
Me: Hello, Could I speak with the 50mb support Team Please
India: Yes Sir, this is the 50mb Technical Support Team, how Can I help you?
Me: Are you sure you can support 50mb?
India: Yes Sir, I support 20mb and 50mb.
Me: Ok Thanks, I am still having problems with my upload and download speeds on the 50mb service.
India: Can I take your details and password blah blah.
Me: Gives Info
India: Ok sir, can you tell me what speed you are getting
Me: I'm getting 900k upload speed and only 26mb download speed.
India: 900k upload speed is fine sir, you should be getting 768k (My Alarm bell starts to ring)
Me: I'm on the 50mb Service, it should be up to 1.5mb and also, I'm only getting 26mb download speed.
India: Yes sir these speeds are fine for your package. (Oh Dear!)
Me, Aggrevated: No, I am on 50mb, these speeds are not fine!
India: You are on 50mb, hold on sir, let me transfer you to the 50mb team, can you hold?
Me: Waits on hold music for 4 minutes.
India: I am sorry sir I can't put you through to the 50mb line. Can I give you there number.
He then gives me a 0800 number. I ring, I get long number not is use tone, I chucks phone at wall.
Some are better than others, but to tell me he deals with 50mb, what a joke and waste of 10 minutes of time.
Mabs
If you are on 50Mb then you will have received a dedicated number to call so you get through to the 50Mb support teams first time, so ring that next time.
<snip>
</end_snip>
ps looks like things (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34742544-post7.html) are getting worse!
Here is another one for the list (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34742431-post3.html) and although Kymmy suggested using the groups to report a fault that any first line agent could have escalated, this is not the answer. I read the groups and they are becoming more popular and we can see why, the groups are manned by 2nd line agents but only one at a time. One morning to afternoon & then one afternoon to evening.
With the influx of help requests what do you think will happen when the 2nd line agent can not cope with the amount of requests?
Outsourcing offshore maybe?
I can fully understand the want and need to use the groups to avoid being given the run around by poor performing first line agents, however, VirginMedia need to be alerted/reminded of the dire support being given by their agents.
I'd urge you to call and have your complaint logged or do it in writing.
I personally dislike calling offshore call centres, to, as I've always had problems understanding strong Indian accents
But, with that said, I sometimes find it hard to understand strong scottish, welsh and irish accents to, heh
Ignitionnet
01-03-2009, 18:24
I've nothing personal against call centres wherever they may be located, I have something against centres that waste my time by being inefficient and generally a waste of space when I deal with them.
I put it down to VM outsourcing and VM's outsourcing company being too cheap to train the staff properly, so they can be incompetent and have no issues apparently making things up if they don't know the solution to get you off the phone, again likely due to the outsourcer's policies.
Of course you can bet that the outsourcing company have all sorts of wonderful stats and facts and figures that paint a rose-tinted picture of how wonderful their centre is, and above all it's really cheap for Virgin Media, who let's face it are not massively bothered about quality but being as cheap, mass market and pile it high flog it cheap as possible. Certainly no objections to saving a few quid a the expense of customer service.
AndyCambs
01-03-2009, 20:04
I personally dislike calling offshore call centres, to, as I've always had problems understanding strong Indian accents
But, with that said, I sometimes find it hard to understand strong scottish, welsh and irish accents to, heh
not only the accents, but also the duplex delay in replying, and also the reading from a prepared script which bears no relation to you specific problem. (Before anyone complains - this is for ALL COMPANIES who use off-shore call centres for support.
cook1984
02-03-2009, 13:52
They are just being cheap, that's all there is to it.
In Japan, you get a 100x or more faster connection, true unlimited usage and a Japanese person in a Japanese call centre. They do still have scripts, but at least (in my experience) they are human beings and will listen to you, unlike the Indian lot who just plough on with their script no matter what. Oh, and it costs a lot less too.
It is possible to have efficient UK call centres with people who can cope when it isn't just another "reboot modem" and don't automatically try blame everything on the customer's router/pc/toaster when nothing in their little list of time-wasting exercises works.
Ignitionnet
02-03-2009, 14:07
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-273300.html
I wonder, hehe ;)
---------- Post added at 14:07 ---------- Previous post was at 13:59 ----------
They are just being cheap, that's all there is to it.
In Japan, you get a 100x or more faster connection, true unlimited usage and a Japanese person in a Japanese call centre.
Japan the story is quite different with how those networks came into being, and it's worth remembering that both few people see any performance outside of Japan, and that even inside Japan they struggle to hit 100Mbit.
It's also incredibly competitive there, with FTTH competing with extremely fast DSL and extremely high performance cable, while here it's average competing with mediocre competing with rubbish.
That is the case in Japan, but on the other hand a part of this is due to their customers and in turn the UK as a whole being cheap about how much we pay for our providings. Far too many people want to pay next to nothing then will go complain like crazy when it doesn't work as they'd like it to.
I'm not condoning it or anything but too many people are far too quick to shout about how they pay 'x' amount for a service and expect it to be perfect while they'd pay next to nothing for a commodity then shrug their shoulders when it breaks as it was cheap.
Hopefully as people use broadband more they'll get it into their heads that they are going to actually have to pay more, not less, for the next generation stuff (and I don't class VM's present 50Mbit product as next-gen, it's a rushed product that imho doesn't get next-gen until it's 5Mbit up).
Likewise though hopefully BT and VM will be slapped into actually competing instead of BT doing nothing and VM doing the bare minimum. Then we will see services improve in all ways, the services themselves, customer service, etc.
You can bet if BT pulled support back to the UK and made a lot of noise about it VM would soon do likewise!
General Maximus
02-03-2009, 18:21
too many people are far too quick to shout about how they pay 'x' amount for a service and expect it to be perfect
you can say that again, i was having a nosey round speedtest.net last night as I was getting excited about my 50mbit being installed and i was comparing VMs speeds against other isps in my area and the closest speed wise was Edgenet which I have never heard of. I had a look on their website and they do leased lines (which we often talk about because we all want our full 20mbit) and I couldn't believe it when I read a 20mbit uncontended line was £1099 a MONTH.
I have never moaned about my speed because I always get 20mbit 99% of the time but hopefully the rest of us will moan a but less now :)
Tech_Boy
02-03-2009, 18:46
you can say that again, i was having a nosey round speedtest.net last night as I was getting excited about my 50mbit being installed and i was comparing VMs speeds against other isps in my area and the closest speed wise was Edgenet which I have never heard of. I had a look on their website and they do leased lines (which we often talk about because we all want our full 20mbit) and I couldn't believe it when I read a 20mbit uncontended line was £1099 a MONTH.
I have never moaned about my speed because I always get 20mbit 99% of the time but hopefully the rest of us will moan a but less now :)
Unfortunately some people will never be happy, I can think of several members who only seem to be happy when they are complaining:rolleyes:
Yep, it is far more important to me to have a service that works and tbh my VM cable service does just that. Just enjoy the service guys and thank your lucky stars you live in a cabled area and give the people in tech a break when you have to call them once in a blue moon. Everyone likes a good ol' moan but really, if things were as bad as some say, they'd move on.
Some want it cheaper and faster and they want to be Paris Hilton's British best friend all in one deal. :) (actually, come to think of it....:p:)
Yep, it is far more important to me to have a service that works and tbh my VM cable service does just that. Just enjoy the service guys and thank your lucky stars you live in a cabled area and give the people in tech a break when you have to call them once in a blue moon. Everyone likes a good ol' moan but really, if things were as bad as some say, they'd move on.
Some want it cheaper and faster and they want to be Paris Hilton's British best friend all in one deal. :) (actually, come to think of it....:p:)
Stop watching that movie set in the city of Paris, I think it was the city.:D
Stop watching that movie set in the city of Paris, I think it was the city.:D
She can try to fix my 'problem' 9 times if she likes and I won't care about her accent or lack of technical skill :D
General Maximus
02-03-2009, 21:05
and give the people in tech a break
I said I was happy and never moaned about my speed, tech support is another matter and something i will moan about. It doesnt matter it if only goes down once a year, I would mind if it went down once a week if i could ring tech support and they fixed it but there is nothing more annoying than ringing tech support and them not being able to resolve your problem. I have had my cable modem for 8 years now and yes I do only give them a ring once a year, but that i 8 phone calls I have made and I am being honest when I say not once have they even acknowledged a fault let alone fixed it, and once of them was an outage that affected half the country for a couple of hours.
Speed and reliability great, tech support crap :td:
I said I was happy and never moaned about my speed, tech support is another matter and something i will moan about. It doesnt matter it if only goes down once a year, I would mind if it went down once a week if i could ring tech support and they fixed it but there is nothing more annoying than ringing tech support and them not being able to resolve your problem. I have had my cable modem for 8 years now and yes I do only give them a ring once a year, but that i 8 phone calls I have made and I am being honest when I say not once have they even acknowledged a fault let alone fixed it, and once of them was an outage that affected half the country for a couple of hours.
Speed and reliability great, tech support crap :td:
Ok General. But on balance and taking everything into account, 8 calls in 8 years is not so bad. Bet you've rung UK-based energy suppliers a whole lot more! :D
cook1984
03-03-2009, 14:20
It's also incredibly competitive there, with FTTH competing with extremely fast DSL and extremely high performance cable, while here it's average competing with mediocre competing with rubbish.
It sounds like BT are planning to have fibre to the cabinet for 40% of the country by 2012 (BBC News). That will bring ADSL up to 50Mb for some lucky people. The problem is that by 2012 they will be over 10 years behind Japan, and the gap will only be widening.
The excuse that there is more competition there does not make the situation any more acceptable. As we have now discovered we are already a largely service based economy, and we if allow oursleves to fall too far behind in the development of broadband we are going to suffer.
That is the case in Japan, but on the other hand a part of this is due to their customers and in turn the UK as a whole being cheap about how much we pay for our providings. Far too many people want to pay next to nothing then will go complain like crazy when it doesn't work as they'd like it to.
Actually, you can get 100/100 fibre here for about 20 quid a month. A basic "up to 50meg" ADSL line is about fiftenn pounds a month. That's pretty much the minimum speed available. All truely unlimited, BTW.
Ignitionnet
03-03-2009, 14:24
Yeah appreciate that it's largely unlimited ;) but there is congestion on the networks of the kind that UK people wouldn't like, as soon as someone in the UK on 20 quid a month 100/100 drops below 90Mbit they'd probably be on the blower to their supplier.
Can you also imagine the UK tolerating the kind of speeds Japan sees outside of Japan? You guys get a fraction of line speed as soon as you leave the Islands, that'd cause mass complaints here.
You guys just have a different model, very high access speeds with contention at core and transit levels, here we expect 100% performance 100% of the time for nothing and whinge and moan as soon as it tails off.
As far as BT go, as per my comment on Thinkbroadband:
Is it just me that finds it amusing and somewhat tragic that Ofcom / BT are calling 40Mbit 'super-fast' while other countries are merrily laying down regulatory frameworks and deploying 100Mbit+ and in some cases 1000Mbit?
Or as in the case of quite a few places, already deployed!
moaningmags
03-03-2009, 14:45
What do the last 2 posts have to do with VM's Indian Technical Support?
graf_von_anonym
03-03-2009, 17:10
Virgin Media are training the technicians who will support India's domestic broadband revolution, of course! It's because they like to give.
What do the last 2 posts have to do with VM's Indian Technical Support?
A very good question...So how about thinking about the topic in particular.
Virgin Media are training the technicians who will support India's domestic broadband revolution, of course! It's because they like to give.
They trained the trainers about 18 months ago and it appears some have forgotten it already.:D
cook1984
04-03-2009, 14:19
You guys get a fraction of line speed as soon as you leave the Islands, that'd cause mass complaints here.
Nope.
75Mb+ to Astraweb servers in the US or P2P users in Korea.
To bring the discussion back on topic, Japanese users demand quality as well as a headline number, so Indian call centres would never be acceptable. The bottom line is that unless VM invest massively in training and English lessons, and then allow calls to be quickly escalated and not forcing people to go through the script every time I just can't see how the call centres can provide anything but a poor and frustrating "service".
HP are using South African call centres at the moment and I find them a lot easier to understand, and also a lot better educated and intelligent in general. They always ask you some basic questions but if you say you have already done what they are suggesting, they accept it and move on. It's just a shame that it usually takes them about three pick-up/return cycles to fix a laptop. We had one come back with a cracked copy of Vista installed once too!
General Maximus
04-03-2009, 17:30
time to add salt to the wound. I signed up for 50mbit last week and took a bundle deal where you get 50mbit + L TV + M Phone for £45 a month and I got a letter through today saying that the package was £65. I rang 150 and got an Indian dude and not matter how many times I tried to explain things to him he kept reading the cost breakdown to me as if he was justifying the £65 cost and I told him the items on the breakdown were correct but the cost was wrong and all he kept saying was "yes I understand what you are saying sir" and I just felt like saying "no you f*cking dont otherwise you would fix the problem. In the end I told him I didnt care what he did but to fix it so that I get charged £45, at that point he said he couldnt change anything himself and he would transfer me through to customer services and I got to speak to an english guy who fixed the problems in 2 mins (literally).
I just want to say thanks to the Indian dude who wasted 15 mins of my life today, it ****es me off sooooo much. If i have any problems when my 50mbit gets installed I cant even be arsed with ringing someone, I'll just go through the newsgroups.
The bottom line is that unless VM invest massively in training and English lessons, and then allow calls to be quickly escalated and not forcing people to go through the script every time I just can't see how the call centres can provide anything but a poor and frustrating "service".
And who will end up funding that investment? I like my broadband fast and cheap and I don't want to pay for a gold-standard, UK-based, oxford-English-speaking, super-skilled, supertech on tap for the odd time I might ring them.
Anyone else fancy a hefty increase in subscriptions? I doubt it.
Ignitionnet
04-03-2009, 18:40
And who will end up funding that investment? I like my broadband fast and cheap and I don't want to pay for a gold-standard, UK-based, oxford-English-speaking, super-skilled, supertech on tap for the odd time I might ring them.
Anyone else fancy a hefty increase in subscriptions? I doubt it.
I'm fine with paying more for better service, I really this is evidently a scary concept but I guess I'm just strange like that in that I don't want piled high, sold cheap, supported poorly and maintained worse :)
I like my broadband fast, robust, reliable, backed by good support when needed and ideally maintained so that it isn't. Cost is quite a bit further down the line. I used to subscribe to Zen a while ago, fantastic service. A VM Premier service would be marvellous.
Retrovertigo
04-03-2009, 19:55
Well, as someone who doesn't have the luxury someone like Kursk has of having smooth running broadband, I'd happily spend the extra cash and have decent call centres when they were needed.
It's not just the language barrier, it's the personal touch. When you speak to someone in this country it is easier to get a sympathetic ear and also someone who understands when you veer from the "script" and need extra help.
There are good reasons why companies like NatWest advertise the fact they have U.k call centres. If all call centres were treated equally then they wouldn't feel the need to boast about it.
It's the same with TalkTalk, so it isn't only VM. I've called TalkTalk on my uncles behalf any times, and usually when I get put through to India there is a bad line coupled with the difficulty in explaining problems that might not follow the script - yet when I have managed to speak to someone in the U.K I have been sorted out very quickly.
The big difference of course, being that Talktalk is infinitely cheaper (free even) than VM. I have said it before, but VM are one of the most expensive providers out there now for broadband - and for that I expect a premium service. Which both service wise and customer service wise, is anything but.
Heck, because of numerous complaints they don't get the full price off me at the moment anyway. Imagine if they sorted the service, had little need for calling call centres, and then sat back and enjoyed everyone paying full price - and then when you needed them on very rare occasions, spoke to someone in the U.K - bliss!
I'm digressing a little - but I wonder what percentage of customers pay full price for the services? there seem to be an awful lot of people here who have been unhappy for one reason or another and so have been offered deals.
I'm fine with paying more for better service, I really this is evidently a scary concept but I guess I'm just strange like that in that I don't want piled high, sold cheap, supported poorly and maintained worse :)
I like my broadband fast, robust, reliable, backed by good support when needed and ideally maintained so that it isn't. Cost is quite a bit further down the line. I used to subscribe to Zen a while ago, fantastic service. A VM Premier service would be marvellous.
Fine. But I think you'll find at the top of most customer's lists is prices being kept down. Feel free to pay more for the support you want, but don't ask me to chip in. Why aren't you with Zen now? I'm happy to speak with an Indian rep.
My VM service is good; it's very good in fact. Is yours really, no, I mean really, that bad Retrovertigo?
Fine. But I think you'll find at the top of most customer's lists is prices being kept down.
That's your conjecture. My conjecture is people are happy to pay a little bit more for something if they can be assured it will work better, whether it's a network or the level of support provided.
The impression I'm getting from you is if someone's service performance is good, good to the point that they very rarely need to call for support and the price they pay is pretty competitive then complaining about their awful (or 'quaint') outsourced tech support is pointless/unwarranted. Am I in the right area with that?
If the selection of suitable candidates and training standards were lowered in the UK we could end up with script readers not to dissimilar from the Offshore Call Centres and that would be a major mistake for any company to make, be thankful that we have at present 3 UK based call centres with suitable training and support and a proper criteria for the selection of suitable staff who already have a understanding of the product.
That's your conjecture. My conjecture is people are happy to pay a little bit more for something if they can be assured it will work better, whether it's a network or the level of support provided.
I agree its conjecture. It would be interesting to find out the preference of VM's millions of customers. I'm still pretty sure what the reaction would be if VM's next newsletter said "we've been listening and we're going to charge you more". Stand well back after lighting the blue touchpaper.
Don't forget that the views of forum contributors are usually negative so the vibe here is possibly not representative of the majority.
The impression I'm getting from you is if someone's service performance is good, good to the point that they very rarely need to call for support and the price they pay is pretty competitive then complaining about their awful (or 'quaint') outsourced tech support is pointless/unwarranted. Am I in the right area with that?
ps sorry Russ just spotted your edit. You're slightly off there - I don't accept the premise that their outsourced tech is 'awful'; from my point of view, the service possibly represents excellent value for money.
I agree its conjecture. It would be interesting to find out the preference of VM's millions of customers. I'm still pretty sure what the reaction would be if VM's next newsletter said "we've been listening and we're going to charge you more". Stand well back after lighting the blue touchpaper.
Don't forget that the views of forum contributors are usually negative so the vibe here is possibly not representative of the majority.
The majority of customers do not even know such things as computer forums exist or even what a computer is actually capable of, they are more interested in getting on Facebook or MSN or such like.
The majority of customers do not even know such things as computer forums exist or even what a computer is actually capable of, they are more interested in getting on Facebook or MSN or such like.
Perhaps. But if that's what they want to do and VM's service allows them to do it when they want, then all's good eh?
Perhaps. But if that's what they want to do and VM's service allows them to do it when they want, then all's good eh?
Off course it is because they pay my wages:D
I agree its conjecture. It would be interesting to find out the preference of VM's millions of customers. I'm still pretty sure what the reaction would be if VM's next newsletter said "we've been listening and we're going to charge you more". Stand well back after lighting the blue touchpaper.
That is completely irrelevant to the point being made.
More than enough people have complaints about VM's Indian callcentre. It's put to you, you either call it 'quaint' (IMO perhaps one of the most patronising ways to describe someone but that's just my own view of course) or bring up an extreme example ("a gold-standard, UK-based, oxford-English-speaking, super-skilled, supertech on tap") which is a scenario nobody has asked for or expects.
You have to face facts straight in the eye here. You being satisfied with VM's Indian support puts you in the minority on this forum.
The way other companies who use UK-only callcentres advertise the fact gives good grounds to believe the strength of feeling goes well beyond Cable Forum.
frogstamper
04-03-2009, 21:12
Well said (except this thread's been full of sweeping statements since the OP). Right, so far the Scots, Welsh, Indians and Liverpudlians have been insulted; who's next?
My advice is to buy tomorrows Daily Mail, I'm sure there will be a wide choice of Brits from all over the country being blamed for our ills, and you can always rely on them bringing out their favourite whipping boy...Muslims.:)
Ignitionnet
04-03-2009, 21:17
Fine. But I think you'll find at the top of most customer's lists is prices being kept down. Feel free to pay more for the support you want, but don't ask me to chip in. Why aren't you with Zen now? I'm happy to speak with an Indian rep.
My VM service is good; it's very good in fact. Is yours really, no, I mean really, that bad Retrovertigo?
Retrovertigo?
And did I say the service was 'that bad'?
Yes my experiences with India have all been 'that bad' though, and there've been a few in 6 months.
Trust me, if I could pay more for a higher quality and faster service I would, sadly Zen are hamstrung by BT Wholesale products and Virgin Media go for customer numbers with no real interest in quality.
It's the obsession with costs that certainly some customers have that is the reason STM exists, outsourced and poor support, and that my 20Mbit service is doing this:
Date 04/03/09 21:20:37
Speed Down 11907.39 Kbps ( 11.6 Mbps )
Speed Up 701.49 Kbps ( 0.7 Mbps )
As it does every evening, and why it has 0.7Mbps up instead of 2Mbit+ which is roughly status quo for 20Mbit cable.
EDIT: Incidentally did you vote on http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/63/33646676-which-services-would-you-buy.html ? ;)
More than enough people have complaints about VM's Indian callcentre. It's put to you, you either call it 'quaint' (IMO perhaps one of the most patronising ways to describe someone but that's just my own view of course) or bring up an extreme example ("a gold-standard, UK-based, oxford-English-speaking, super-skilled, supertech on tap") which is a scenario nobody has asked for or expects.
You seem to be really smarting over a misunderstanding of the use of the word 'quaint' in an earlier post. I was simply saying that when you were called 'Mr Russ' it was quaint terminology because the person helping you was trying to be respectful and polite and had no idea it was a malapropism that was actually annoying you.
You have to face facts straight in the eye here. You being satisfied with VM's Indian support puts you in the minority on this forum.
So what? But in any case I think you mean 'in this thread'. I may also be representative of the majority of VM's millions of customers.
You seem to be really smarting over a misunderstanding of the use of the word 'quaint' in an earlier post. I was simply saying that when you were called 'Mr Russ' it was quaint terminology because the person helping you was trying to be respectful and polite and had no idea it was a malapropism that was actually annoying you.
If they are serving us then it's their responsibility to learn our customs and the ways we speak.
So what? But in any case I think you mean 'in this thread'. I may also be representative of the majority of VM's millions of customers.
No, I said (and meant) 'on this forum'. I'm almost inclined to start a poll. And I highly doubt your view of their Indian support is in any way representative of their customers.
If they are serving us then it's their responsibility to learn our customs and the ways we speak.
No, I said (and meant) 'on this forum'. I'm almost inclined to start a poll. And I highly doubt your view of their Indian support is in any way representative of their customers.
I did say at the beginning that a poll would be a good idea
If they are serving us then it's their responsibility to learn our customs and the ways we speak.
No, I said (and meant) 'on this forum'. I'm almost inclined to start a poll. And I highly doubt your view of their Indian support is in any way representative of their customers.
Well they don't do so bad. They play better cricket and polo than we do, they have massively successful restaurants all over the UK, they speak English (better than you speak urdu?) and can boast some of the best IT literate people in the World. They're not doing so bad eh Russ?
A poll will confirm my view on call centres is the minority. Is that a surprise on a forum? People come to moan.
Well they don't do so bad. They play better cricket and polo than we do, they have massively successful restaurants all over the UK, they speak English (better than you speak urdu?) and can boast some of the best IT literate people in the World. They're not doing so bad eh Russ?
What the hell are you on about now??
I couldn't give a brass bollard about cricket, polo, restaurants or urdu (why would I need to speak that??), I expect a level of service which mirrors what I get in the UK and in the few times I've called them (including the 9 attempts I had at sorting out my fault) it's come nowhere near.
A poll will confirm my view is the minority. Is that a surprise on a forum? People come to moan.
Good cop-out. You've already chosen your method of not taking the potential results seriously.
What the hell are you on about now??
I couldn't give a brass bollard about cricket, polo, restaurants or urdu (why would I need to speak that??), I expect a level of service which mirrors what I get in the UK and in the few times I've called them (including the 9 attempts I had at sorting out my fault) it's come nowhere near.
Hrhrhrhr! Calm down Russ (I nearly said Mr Russ there but...:D)
Good cop-out. You've already chosen your method of not taking the potential results seriously.
Why is it a cop out? I'm admitting to the probable result on this forum. This forum does not include the views of all of VM's customers. I can't let you have incomplete stats to beat me over the head with :p:
Hrhrhrhr! Calm down Russ (I nearly said Mr Russ there but...:D)
I'm not calmed up - I'd just prefer it if you tried to stay relevant to the thread.
Why is it a cop out? I'm admitting to the probable result on this forum. This forum does not include the views of all of VM's customers. I can't let you have incomplete stats to beat me over the head with :p:
Well you DID question whether I was referring to the thread or forum.
Well you DID question whether I was referring to the thread or forum.
I DID, and you saw an opening. I closed the door.
A poll would probably be a good way to find out how people on this site feel about this subject, I personally would not set up such a poll as my sig shows my conflict of interest regardless of what I post.
I DID, and you saw an opening. I closed the door.
With respect, it's not your place to close any door when it will go some way to finding out what more people feel about the subject. It's bad form to try to keep someone quiet if what they are suggesting could possibly weaken your own argument.
With respect, it's not your place to close any door when it will go some way to finding out what more people feel about the subject. It's bad form to try to keep someone quiet if what they are suggesting could possibly weaken your own argument.
But we know how most people feel on the site. Tell you what, have a look at how many posts here are negative then decide if the poll result could show anything other than VM don't provide everything everyone wants.
Milambar
04-03-2009, 22:20
With respect, it seems that Kursk called technical support once or twice, and got one of the few Indians who cares about what they do, and didn't get fed a pack of lies. One experience qualifies him to make sweeping statements that the Indian call centers are "OK".
Ive called them several times, over account problems, broadband problems, and every time Ive been lied to, fobbed off, or just quite plainly been given the wrong information, on top of finding them extremely hard to understand and communicate with. They have refused to escalate my problems when I request it, telling me theres nothing wrong. If there was nothing wrong, why was I calling? Because I like their accents?
The Indians need to go, or at least be told to xfer it to a UK call center on request, even if that means waiting in line.
I agree with Moldovia, lets have a poll on this issue.
With respect, it seems that Kursk called technical support once or twice, and got one of the few Indians who cares about what they do, and didn't get fed a pack of lies. One experience qualifies him to make sweeping statements that the Indian call centers are "OK".
Ive called them several times, over account problems, broadband problems, and every time Ive been lied to, fobbed off, or just quite plainly been given the wrong information, on top of finding them extremely hard to understand and communicate with. They have refused to escalate my problems when I request it, telling me theres nothing wrong. If there was nothing wrong, why was I calling? Because I like their accents?
The Indians need to go, or at least be told to xfer it to a UK call center on request, even if that means waiting in line.
I agree with Moldovia, lets have a poll on this issue.
Get the spelling correct Moldova as in the country.:p:
But we know how most people feel on the site. Tell you what, have a look at how many posts here are negative then decide if the poll result could show anything other than VM don't provide everything everyone wants.
You seem to be of the assumption that either everyone that signs up for CF has bad experiences with VM's Indian tech support or anyone that does sign up, regardless of where their issues lie whether it be billing, a tv connection or phone service matter, will vote against the Indian people.
Sounds like you're scraping the barrel for reasons not to support having a poll.
moaningmags
04-03-2009, 22:26
Russ, you started this thread. You want a poll? Make a poll, simple.
If you do make a poll can you include an option for I don't like VM's Indian Call Centre because I'm fed up having to apologise to customer's they've insulted, hung up on or left on hold for 40 mins.
And an option of I'm fed up cleaning up their mess
A poll seems to be getting the popular vote now
As above my sentiments exactly.
You seem to be of the assumption that either everyone that signs up for CF has bad experiences with VM's Indian tech support or anyone that does sign up, regardless of where their issues lie whether it be billing, a tv connection or phone service matter, will vote against the Indian people.
Sounds like you're scraping the barrel for reasons not to support having a poll.
No Russ I simply prefer discussion and a poll on this issue will not inform the discussion imho.
Oh for goodness sake, have a poll if you want one. Geeez:D
No Russ I simply prefer discussion and a poll on this issue will not inform the discussion imho.
OK sorry. It just looked very much like you were trying to come up with ready-made reasons for any results you found disagreeable.
There, I think the 5 options cover all relevant responses.
OK sorry. It just looked very much like you were trying to come up with ready-made reasons for any results you found disagreeable.
There, I think the 5 options cover all relevant responses.
No problem.
I don't know whether to vote or not though. As Milambar said, I haven't contacted tech too much. What to do, what to do.
Waddya reckon Russ? Am I a 'Generally Yes', an 'Always' or an 'I'm only here for the beer?' Hey, where is that one?!
No problem.
I don't know whether to vote or not though. As Milambar said, I haven't contacted tech too much. What to do, what to do.
Waddya reckon Russ? Am I a 'Generally Yes', an 'Always' or an 'I'm only here for the beer?' Hey, where is that one?!
It doesn't take a genius....if in the few times you've contacted them you've come away generally happy then I'd have thought a 'generally yes' option would be an idea...
It doesn't take a genius....if in the few times you've contacted them you've come away generally happy then I'd have thought a 'generally yes' option would be an idea...
I still think the 'beer' option would have made it fairer :D
I dunno, I guess I was asking too much to assume some people would take this a little more seriously.
With 3,481 views I think its being taken seriously, I'm sure there are lots more posts to be made before this topic dies off Russ.
My speeds are not what they should be, I'll give them a call.
I'll respond as there's a poll now.
I have never been given what I call a decent service. I very rarely understand them, and they even less understand me. Its usually a battle to get the most basic of queries sorted. I've had my plan rejigged as NTL (back in 2006 it seems) cocked it up and I wanted to make sure I wasn't placed under a contract. Two Indian operatives later, i'm still none the wiser. You just lose the will to live in the end.
I know we have Indian CS people read this site, but i'm sorry, i'm just being honest.
A major problem with the far eastern service is the fact they cant "elevate" a call. If you ever have a call that needs more than a "reboot that" or "ping this" then you are pretty much hamstrung. However i have found out that they can at 2nd level award up to a £50 credit! Although that would depend if on whether youve enjoyed the horror of HA9...
First two calls were terminated by the agent, it would seem mentioning that I had rebooted the modem before calling had thrown them from following their onscreen prompts.
So I played along on the third call.
Note: I am a 20Mbit customer with a SB5100
"Hi I seem to have slow speeds"
He takes my details and continues to give a step by step course of what he's doing and in part why.
"I see your modem is fine"
And he's right.
Downstream Value
Frequency 331000000 Hz Locked
Signal to Noise Ratio 36 dB
Power Level -5 dBmV
Upstream Value
Channel ID 3
Frequency 23000000 Hz Ranged
Power Level 44 dBmV
"Can you reboot your modem"
I do so..
"Can you click start-run-cmd and type ping bbc.co.uk"
I do so..
ping -c 100 bbc.co.uk
PING bbc.co.uk (212.58.224.138) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk (212.58.224.138): icmp_seq=1 ttl=119 time=79.3 ms
64 bytes from virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk (212.58.224.138): icmp_seq=2 ttl=119 time=81.2 ms
64 bytes from virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk (212.58.224.138): icmp_seq=3 ttl=119 time=82.2 ms
64 bytes from virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk (212.58.224.138): icmp_seq=4 ttl=119 time=70.8 ms
64 bytes from virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk (212.58.224.138): icmp_seq=5 ttl=119 time=41.7 ms
64 bytes from virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk (212.58.224.138): icmp_seq=6 ttl=119 time=106 ms
64 bytes from virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk (212.58.224.138): icmp_seq=7 ttl=119 time=88.4 ms
64 bytes from virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk (212.58.224.138): icmp_seq=8 ttl=119 time=77.0 ms
64 bytes from virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk (212.58.224.138): icmp_seq=9 ttl=119 time=70.3 ms
64 bytes from virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk (212.58.224.138): icmp_seq=10 ttl=119 time=69.2 ms
64 bytes from virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk (212.58.224.138): icmp_seq=11 ttl=119 time=75.4 ms
64 bytes from virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk (212.58.224.138): icmp_seq=12 ttl=119 time=56.3 ms
64 bytes from virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk (212.58.224.138): icmp_seq=13 ttl=119 time=64.2 ms
64 bytes from virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk (212.58.224.138): icmp_seq=14 ttl=119 time=45.8 ms
64 bytes from virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk (212.58.224.138): icmp_seq=15 ttl=119 time=29.1 ms
^C
--- bbc.co.uk ping statistics ---
15 packets transmitted, 15 received, 0% packet loss, time 14102ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 29.161/69.184/106.184/18.890 ms
I'm asked to delete out my cookies, so I do. I'm asked to perform another ping and its no better than the one above.
I'm asked to perform a ipconfig, I don't have a router and gladly read out my public IP address.
I am asked to do a netstnetstat -a, and I do so.
Active Internet connections (servers and established)
Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address Foreign Address State
tcp 0 0 *:nfs *:* LISTEN
tcp 0 0 *:38309 *:* LISTEN
tcp 0 0 *:46374 *:* LISTEN
tcp 0 0 *:sunrpc *:* LISTEN
tcp 0 0 *:59094 *:* LISTEN
tcp 0 0 localhost:ipp *:* LISTEN
tcp 0 0 localhost:smtp *:* LISTEN
tcp 0 0 local:58497 by2msg1131405.phx.:msnp ESTABLISHED
tcp 0 0 local:60649 by2msg3020311.phx.:msnp ESTABLISHED
tcp6 0 0 [::]:netbios-ssn [::]:* LISTEN
tcp6 0 0 [::]:microsoft-ds [::]:* LISTEN
udp 0 0 *:nfs *:*
udp 0 0 local:netbios-ns *:*
udp 0 0 *:netbios-ns *:*
udp 0 0 local:netbios-dgm *:*
udp 0 0 *:net bios-dgm *:*
udp 0 0 *:41483 *:*
udp 0 0 *:bootpc *:*
udp 0 0 *:42446 *:*
udp 0 0 *:53727 *:*
udp 0 0 *:59616 *:*
udp 0 0 *:mdns *:*
udp 0 0 *:sunrpc *:*
udp 0 0 *:1014 *:*
When asked how many established connections I have I'm told I have a virus and would be best to run a full scan and if it finds nothing to reinstall windows as it is a computer issue.
At no point was I asked "xp, vista or a Mac?"
Right then it looks like I'm off to reinstall Windows then.
uname -a
Linux 2.6.27-9-generic #1 SMP Thu Nov 20 21:57:00 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux
Think I'll call again tomorrow at 8am, with luck I'll get a Scots or Liverpudlian accent. And I'm willing to bet its SNR or TXLoad.
Retrovertigo
05-03-2009, 12:23
Yes Kursk, my service is that bad. I have had to speak to Indian call centres many times and they fail to help if you try several things which don't work. They get stuck and can't continue, and it becomes apparent that I know more than they do anyway.
I have to try and try to get through to someone in the U.K. It's only when I have done that, that they confess my area is over subscribed, that they are upgrading the service (yeah right) and that when 50meg kicks in things should smooth out.
That is something the Indian call centres can't help with as they don't have the knowledge - or haven't when I have spoken to them - and so instead try and pick holes in my set up, when in fact that isn't where the problem lies. Hence lot's of wasted phonecalls.
Oh and Kursk, it's all well and good saying let others pay extra but you not pay to help service others. But it's ok for costs to be kept down at the expense of some of us having crappy service while yours works ok? Nice ;)
Blackened
05-03-2009, 12:37
My last experience with India.
Internet down, TV & phone OK.
India: Reboot, wait 30 secs, etc, etc.
Me: Yes, all done. No change.
India: It's your router.
Me: I've connected directly before calling.
India: What lights are on the modem?
Me: I don't have a modem but there's a flashing green light on my STB.
India: You need a modem now.
Me: I'm not really sure that's the problem right now.
India: You need an engineer to fit a modem [arranges appointment].
Next day internet comes back to life so I ring to cancel engineer.
UK lady tells me no engineer is booked.
:D
Good poll :tu:
I have voted 'never'. I've talked to them via email on occasions (when they were using 0845 phone support, and I objected paying for what I suspected might be a fruitless and frustrating phone call) and the experience of getting script-monkeyed every time I tried to explain the issue was very annoying.
smeagoly1
05-03-2009, 12:48
To the OP, I decided to add my reply once i noticed the poll had been added.
Like yourself, I had similar problems, when contacting via VM's Indian call centres, to have the same responses, and even getting cut off! once they decided it was too difficult to deal with and pass on... and no i was never abusive or heated in my calls, always polite and inunciating anything they could not understand due to my my accent.
Several calls and a lot of expense i may add, as i am on ADSL and get charged for calls. When I get through to the Uk support...BINGO within a few mins i actually get an answer and within 24 hours my problem was corrected.
I have always backed UK tech support personel, as most will get the gist once you pass on all information needed that you have done all tests etc. And as yet not been stonewalled if the problem isn't on a scib sheet.
Always they ask me if i have my power and noise levels at hand, soon as i give that over, a min later i get an answer and hey presto normaly fixed in an hour or so.
In defence of all call centre staff, i do think a home grown or supported support, have the resources and a more clear knowledge of a range of issues and being able to solve them better, than support situated a few thousand miles away.
Since day one of VM swapping over to overseas support, consumers have always been complaining.
These issies should indicate to VM or any company that deals with it's customers this way...you have a problem.....
P.S if you think VM overseas support are bad..... try BT!!!!! they are 10x worse. But their UK side of things is spot on.
First two calls were terminated by the agent, it would seem mentioning that I had rebooted the modem before calling had thrown them from following their onscreen prompts.
So I played along on the third call.
Note: I am a 20Mbit customer with a SB5100
"Hi I seem to have slow speeds"
He takes my details and continues to give a step by step course of what he's doing and in part why.
"I see your modem is fine"
<snip>
</end_snip>
Think I'll call again tomorrow at 8am, with luck I'll get a Scots or Liverpudlian accent. And I'm willing to bet its SNR or TXLoad.
Got through to a lovely helpful lady in Scotland this morning, Low SNR which is causing slow speeds.
I didn't need to reboot my modem or PC at any time, the call took a at most 4 mins. Thank you. :tu:
I guess a lot of the problems are the script given out in call centres. My vacuum cleaner broke. It was quite clearly a bearing that had gone, but the op insisted that I removed the tube. took off and put back on the dust collecter. You get the idea. A good five minutes later ( and I am paying for the call) I got her to listen to it running . "Sounds like the motor Ill send an engineer" says she. Call centers BLESS THEM. but never never get mad with the person you are talking to it wont help your cause at all ! O` and yes this one was in the UK:(
I think we should bring our cc back.... I have just voted for never.
Ignitionnet
05-03-2009, 14:35
This violates fundamental British rights that money is spent elsewhere but money is taken from our pockets.. I mean look in our streets, our teenagers commit worst kind of crimes because they had No job. Every bad person has a reason to be bad! we must hold all the co-operate companies and people like Richard Branson responsible for this.
Why do British has to save the world and take on their burden? Oh by the way my grand-parents are from indian subcontinent too!!!
Could you pass that Daily Mail when you're done with it please? I need something to wipe with.
pabscars
05-03-2009, 14:38
Having only been with vm for 6 months or so, ive not had the need to make too many phone calls to tech support, i,d estimate approx 35 to 40 so far, all i can say is the overseas call centre's although very polite indeed, never managed to leave me feeling releaved that the problem had been sorted.
it was more the extent of the bs i had to go through, and idle promises of return phone calls, waiting days for a responce, which never materialised, and this was before i managed to get the broadband working in the first instance.
1 week later still no broadband, so i made 1 customer complaint, got a responce from a uk chap, who put me through to a top bloke in uk line 2 tech support, who had problem sorted in 1 hour, and even rang me back when he said he would just to see if it was working correctly.
when i came off the phone, all faith had been restored with vm and all was well with the world, and i even managed to make friends with the dog again.
it doesnt take much to keep us happy,,,,,
i dont mind the language barrier
i dont mind the scripted approach
i do mind being lied too and blatently given the run around just to get me off the phone asap.
Oh and Kursk, it's all well and good saying let others pay extra but you not pay to help service others. But it's ok for costs to be kept down at the expense of some of us having crappy service while yours works ok? Nice ;)
Yes.
Oh and Kursk, it's all well and good saying let others pay extra but you not pay to help service others. But it's ok for costs to be kept down at the expense of some of us having crappy service while yours works ok? Nice ;)
Heehee :). It's about market forces Retrovertigo. Cost is everything as far as I'm concerned.
Mick Fisher
05-03-2009, 22:05
Yes.
Heehee :). It's about market forces Retrovertigo. Cost is everything as far as I'm concerned.
But VM are not cheap. Be are almost half the price and there off shore support is immeasurably better that VM's.
Seems to me it's all about VM ripping us off.
Up to now we have over 80% of voters not happy with the Offshore call centres and this is only a very small snapshot of people on this forum as not all members view this section, if this included the television and telephone sections how many more votes would we get in a similar vein.
cook1984
05-03-2009, 22:54
And who will end up funding that investment? I like my broadband fast and cheap and I don't want to pay for a gold-standard, UK-based, oxford-English-speaking, super-skilled, supertech on tap for the odd time I might ring them.
It's a shame that all you can get is an expensive, barely even fast enough to be called broadband service then. Consider that we pay far more than the European average and that the US has recently decided to define the minimum speed required for a service to be called "broadband" as 5mb down and 1mb up, i.e. by their definition VM's XL service narrowband.
I wasn't being serious about all that training. As they say, you can't polish a turd. The only thing to do is ditch them completely and employ UK staff.
The technology exists to make a computer read a script and respond to what is being said back. Indians are just cheaper, and equally effective after some careful de-humanisation.
Ignitionnet
05-03-2009, 23:18
It's a shame that all you can get is an expensive, barely even fast enough to be called broadband service then. Consider that we pay far more than the European average and that the US has recently decided to define the minimum speed required for a service to be called "broadband" as 5mb down and 1mb up, i.e. by their definition VM's XL service narrowband.
Broadband is the big margin maker for Virgin Media.
That said note the other thread I produced which pointed out our services are more expensive than a number of peer services in Europe. Even Sweden famous for cheapy providings has not dissimilar charges and 3 out of 4 cable companies in the Netherlands are kinda expensive, though all 4 offer better upstream.
Likewise the US shows huge price swings, in some cases more expensive than here, in others far cheaper.
Companies charge what they think they can get away with and provide the lowest level of service they think they can get away with.
EDIT: Saying that in France you can get 100M and telephone for 20 euros a month over cable, which is nice, 30 euros at full price, and no screwing around with M / L / XL - pay your 30 euros a month you'll get 100M/5M if you're in the 80% of network that has it, and 30M until you get upgraded if you aren't.
This thread is for the discussion of VM's Indian callcentre only.
Turkey Machine
06-03-2009, 11:43
Only time I've had dealings with India they've not managed to sort my problems, apart from 1 where I was helping somebody activate their modem.
Well Ive just spoken to India with regards to my 20meg service being 1 meg from 4pm everynight, My god all I can say this was very hard work! all I wanted to know is if there was any problems at there end or if for some reason I was being traffic managed (really dont see how I could tbh), I ended up coming off the phone none the wiser. But not to worry has he told me "I can still send emails and browse the internet" so dont worry about it?! ..... never again
At the risk of repeating myself, I can only go by my own experience. If there is an issue, then I seem to be fortunate enough to have not been affected by it. My bad.
But guys please, the forum is starting to look like it's full of old moaning minnies who either "Don't have enough speed" "Hate the call centres" "Know more about a network that VM ever will" "Pay too much" "Can't get an engineer" or whatever.
Does noone have anything good to say about VM and their staff? I mean, I don't see any of you giving up and going elsewhere. Y'know, the "elsewhere" where broadband is like lightning, costs next to nothing and is better supported than Jordan's bra :D.
Cable forum would not exist without cable (duh) so we should at least be grateful for that eh?
Ignitionnet
06-03-2009, 18:40
At the risk of repeating myself, I can only go by my own experience. If there is an issue, then I seem to be fortunate enough to have not been affected by it. My bad.
But guys please, the forum is starting to look like it's full of old moaning minnies who either "Don't have enough speed" "Hate the call centres" "Know more about a network that VM ever will" "Pay too much" "Can't get an engineer" or whatever.
Does noone have anything good to say about VM and their staff? I mean, I don't see any of you giving up and going elsewhere. Y'know, the "elsewhere" where broadband is like lightning, costs next to nothing and is better supported than Jordan's bra :D.
Cable forum would not exist without cable (duh) so we should at least be grateful for that eh?
Couldn't care less about whether cable exists or not, it's the services that matter however they are delivered.
No-one is saying bad things in this thread about VM or their staff, none of the Indian agents are VM staff. The only bad thing said is their use of this appaulingly low quality outsourcer.
Regarding complaints, well yes, people rarely bother to post to say things are all working fine. If there's a huge bump in posts on here that aren't happy it's usually because there are more issues than normal.
I don't see any of you giving up and going elsewhere.
If you can come up with a legal way of getting out of a 12 month contract then feel free to share it, I think lots of people will be interested.
Couldn't care less about whether cable exists or not
Have you ever sat and thought, I think I'm in the wrong place?
If you can come up with a legal way of getting out of a 12 month contract then feel free to share it, I think lots of people will be interested.
You should not renew, but you do.
Nicely poetic that :cool:
You should not renew, but you do.
So how does that help the people who are in the first few months of their contract?
So how does that help the people who are in the first few months of their contract?
Ahem (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34746128-post150.html) :dozey:.
Ahem (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34746128-post150.html) :dozey:.
Nice cop-out. My post is a response to one of your many suggestions as a remedy to peoples' complaints about the Indian callcentre. But if you'd prefer not to respond that's fine by us.
Nice cop-out. My post is a response to one of your many suggestions as a remedy to peoples' complaints about the Indian callcentre. But if you'd prefer not to respond that's fine by us.
Nice cop out? Geeez Russ play fair - I'm obeying your rule!
Besides, the advice still holds good no matter what stage of your contract you're at. If you're not happy, don't renew. Lots of people profess to be profoundly unhappy but still renew. Masochists I suppose.
Lots of people profess to be profoundly unhappy but still renew.
Have you got any basis for your view or is it just that - your view?
Have you got any basis for your view or is it just that - your view?
My view. But based on the fact that one reads the same complainers year after year.
Btw, you copped out on acknowledging that in obeying your rule I was not copping out :D.
My view. But based on the fact that one reads the same complainers year after year.
Does one indeed? Can you cite any examples in your less-than-one-year as a member? Send it via PM if you're that concerned about staying on topic
Btw, you copped out on acknowledging that in obeying your rule I was not copping out :D.
I'll certainly engage if it helps distract from your weakening argument. The important thing is that you learn from your mistakes.
Does one indeed? Can you cite any examples in your less-than-one-year as a member? Send it via PM if you're that concerned about staying on topic.
Yes one does. And one meant on the net not just here. But let me ask you this - will you still be a cable customer in 12 months time?
I'll certainly engage if it helps distract from your weakening argument. The important thing is that you learn from your mistakes.
erm what :confused:?
Yes one does. And one meant on the net not just here. But let me ask you this - will you still be a cable customer in 12 months time?
I have no idea, time-travel is beyond my abilities. If other providers can match or equal my expectations of VM then possibly not. If VM bring all tech support back to the UK then maybe so.
I have no idea, time-travel is beyond my abilities. If other providers can match or equal my expectations of VM then possibly not. If VM bring all tech support back to the UK then maybe so.
Or just maybe, despite "what you've got against the Indian call centres" you'll still be with VM because it's the best way to get the internet.
Pub and Indian Curry time for me :D.
The thing is that I know the are some good agents in the Off shore call centres but they are overshadowed by the others and they then get classed the same by association.
Or just maybe, despite "what you've got against the Indian call centres" you'll still be with VM because it's the best way to get the internet.
Now what the hell are you on about? Who I use for the internet in 12 months' time has absolutely no bearing on how bad VM's Indian callcentre is. You seem to be on a crusade to stand up for the 'quaint' staff by any means neccessary, that's up to you but you seem unwilling or incapable of accepting other peoples' frustrations.
As I suspected the poll seems to be heading in a particular direction which puts paid to your suggestion that the strength of feeling isn't limited to this thread - it goes across the forum too. I'm sure you've got a list of excuses ready but that poll says a lot I think. If a statistics organisation took the step of running a nationally-recognised poll I'd put money on it that it would bring up similar results if I was a betting man.
Not had much cause to call support myself,just lucky,?
As a comparrison,I had to call my credit card company this morning,who use UK call centres,got through to some very sofly spoken Irish sounding woman (eventually) and could'nt understand a bloody word she said,frantic arm waving at my daughter to be quiet as I struggled to understand her etc.
Had to end the call,blaming a bad line to be polite. Called back a few minutes later only to be greeted by some other unidentified broad accent,I think I managed to sort my problem out?
My point is,it's become somewhat fashionable for UK cc's to use regional accents,these can be just as hard to understand as the dib dibs (no offence intended) with contant pardons and can you repeat that.If we're going to have UK call centres please speak clear English,not with a thick Geordie,Scots,Irish accent!
Ignitionnet
07-03-2009, 10:28
I have a typical 'South-East' accent. No real Cockney overtone just a boring South-East accent, pretty clear and pretty plain... and some people, especially from areas with thick accents, still can't understand me.
I have a typical 'South-East' accent. No real Cockney overtone just a boring South-East accent, pretty clear and pretty plain... and some people, especially from areas with thick accents, still can't understand me.
_________________
I`ve been down here in SE London for ten years now and i rarely ever hear a real "Cockney" accent.....probably more chance of hearing a fellow Scottish accent among the hundreds of others.
207(or there abouts) different languages spoken at my youngest`s school.
Think we should have a group of Alvar Liddell soundalikes,all cloned to work in call centres,that should help the language problem!
dib dibs (no offence intended)
I'm going to have to ask you to explain what you mean by that, and why you think some people might take offence at it ...
I'm going to have to ask you to explain what you mean by that, and why you think some people might take offence at it ...
Cub scouts might be a bit peeved......not quite who i think he was meaning though.I think he possibly meant CC staff of Asian origin.
I could be wrong though.
Ignitionnet
07-03-2009, 10:59
I`ve been down here in SE London for ten years now and i rarely ever hear a real "Cockney" accent.....probably more chance of hearing a fellow Scottish accent among the hundreds of others.
207(or there abouts) different languages spoken at my youngest`s school.
Real Cockney is very rare indeed, 'Mockney' is perhaps better.
Full on Cockney can be tricky to understand, and you sound like you're from Woolwich / Plumstead where I used to reside *laughs*.
Seriously though various accents can be hard to understand, prefer relatively neutral accents problem is those tend to coincide with the most expensive areas to hire labour.
I'm going to have to ask you to explain what you mean by that, and why you think some people might take offence at it ...
Lol was being pc in case anyone was offended.:erm:
Indian people have the nick name dib dibs round our way due to their sometimes faltering English.
Would be best to refrain from using nicknames for people from 'offshore' countries, it can cause untold offence and the purpose of this thread is not to make things personal or deliberately offensive.
Now what the hell are you on about? Who I use for the internet in 12 months' time has absolutely no bearing on how bad VM's Indian callcentre is. You seem to be on a crusade to stand up for the 'quaint' staff by any means neccessary, that's up to you but you seem unwilling or incapable of accepting other peoples' frustrations.
As WE suspected the poll seems to be heading in a particular direction which puts paid to your suggestion that the strength of feeling isn't limited to this thread - it goes across the forum too. I'm sure you've got a list of excuses ready but that poll says a lot I think. If a statistics organisation took the step of running a nationally-recognised poll I'd put money on it that it would bring up similar results if I was a betting man.
I'm not on a crusade at all; just bringing balance to what would be an otherwise very one-sided argument. It is clear that many people have had a poor experience with the call centres, but I haven't. All I'm doing is saying so. I absolutely empathise with those who are having difficulties.
The poll confirms what we knew already and that is that on this forum some people aren't happy with the call centre service. Well, would you Adam an' Eve it :)! I was so sure the vote would go the other way *sigh*.
Woolwich / Plumstead
:Yikes:
And i would walk 500 miles .....back to my place in Edinburgh before i ever lived in Plumstead or Woolwich;)
We were over in Blackheath but recently moved South Eltham way.
:Yikes:
And i would walk 500 miles .....back to my place in Edinburgh before i ever lived in Plumstead or Woolwich;)
We were over in Blackheath but recently moved South Eltham way.
I had a very happy childhood in Plumstead(went to Plumstead Juniors) and lived up on top of Shooters Hill.
Mind some 40 years have since passed...;)
I had a very happy childhood in Plumstead(went to Plumstead Juniors) and lived up on top of Shooters Hill.
Mind some 40 years have since passed...
It was a bit of a sweeping comment i suppose,sorry.
Shooters Hills ok(especially the Hungry Horse up there:)) but once you get right into Plumstead/Woolwich.....well,i`ll say no more in case i offend someone else;)
Same as anywhere else though eh,good n bad.
Some of the areas i grew up in back home would make Woolwich look like a dream location:)
EDIT...OT...Indian call centers are usually a nightmare and thats without the language issues...lets have it right!!
EDIT...OT...Indian call centers are usually a nightmare and thats without the language issues...lets have it right!!
It could be a great episode for The Kumars at No 42. Ummi could call up tech support about her VM connection and get through to the UK-based call centre where she's told: "I dinnae ken what y'mean lassie, your line looks brae bonnie tae me"
:confused:
It could be a great episode for The Kumars at No 42. Ummi could call up tech support about her VM connection and get through to the UK-based call centre where she's told: "I dinnae ken what y'mean lassie, your line looks brae bonnie tae me"
I very much doubt you`ll hear any Scots CC staff using the Scottish vernacular though.Besides...i did say that even without the language(accent) question their still generally more trouble than their worth to call.:confused:
A couple of times i`ve ended up with even more issues to solve than i started out with after speaking to an ICC.
Give me a clear & concise Scottish lass any day of the week thank you very much.She can even fix my BB at the same time.
To be honest I've had one or two ok communication experiences with Indian call centres and I've had a couple of experiences with UK call centres when conversing with folk with strong Irish and Scottish brogue has made the situation more complex for communication. :erm:
On the whole though I've had better communication with UK centres than the overseas ones.It's got nothing to do with technical expertise just an inability to hear clearly what someone is saying to me in heavy accent British or Indian.
Technically however they have been brilliant.:)
Give me a clear & concise Scottish lass any day of the week thank you very much.
I wouldn't argue with that :p:.
It's got nothing to do with technical expertise just an inability to hear clearly what someone is saying to me in heavy accent British or Indian.
Technically however they have been brilliant.:)
Nor that!
highroyds
14-03-2009, 09:52
When ever we've had a problem with our services I've always dreaded phoning up the CS as 9 times out of 10 you get put through to India. I can never understand what they are saying and it drives me mad when your trying to explain whats going on and you've told them you've already tried the rebooting of the box/s and thats not worked, but they still want you to take your card out of your STB for some unknown reason. This is even if you've got a internet problem, they want your details to be confirmed. Plus they are working from a problem tree, which doesn't help.
With the way this country is going, why doesn't Virgin Media help the country and bring the call centre's all back to the UK. This would help out their customers and give people in THIS country much needed jobs.
This would help out their customers and give people in THIS country much needed jobs.
Unfortunately for us though a couple(?) of Rupees an hour is obviously much cheaper than the few Pounds(?) per hour they get paid over here.
They have to pay Samual & Uma after all and all that money has to come from somewhere.
When ever we've had a problem with our services I've always dreaded phoning up the CS as 9 times out of 10 you get put through to India. I can never understand what they are saying and it drives me mad when your trying to explain whats going on and you've told them you've already tried the rebooting of the box/s and thats not worked, but they still want you to take your card out of your STB for some unknown reason. This is even if you've got a internet problem, they want your details to be confirmed. Plus they are working from a problem tree, which doesn't help.
With the way this country is going, why doesn't Virgin Media help the country and bring the call centre's all back to the UK. This would help out their customers and give people in THIS country much needed jobs.
VM are running a business not social welfare. It is probable that the greater majority of their millions of customers never need to contact support. Some of their customers who do contact support want to bring that service to the UK where it will cost more. Is it a good business decision to ask the majority to fund the preference of a minority. No, it's not.
Xpod is right, we know where that "somewhere" is that the money will come. Your pocket and my pocket. No thanks.
Besides, you assume that the support here would be better than it is currently.
Retrovertigo
14-03-2009, 16:11
I don't think that is true at all about the majority never needing to call. If that were the case would they really go to the trouble of setting up a call centre in India in the first place? It's in India to save money, and if they want to save money via call centre costs, then surely that is because a lot of customers are using them?
Besides, you assume that the support here would be better than it is currently.
I don't think that's too unreasonable to assume.
I don't think that is true at all about the majority never needing to call. If that were the case would they really go to the trouble of setting up a call centre in India in the first place? It's in India to save money, and if they want to save money via call centre costs, then surely that is because a lot of customers are using them?
Providing support is part of VM's services to you; it is not specified where that support should be geographically located. I sincerely doubt that the majority of VM's 3.5m customers contact support, so I think my statement is true. It is far more likely that the same 2 or 3 people are contacting support over and over again :D Outsourcing is likely to be saving me money. I like that.
I don't think that's too unreasonable to assume. So there.
I think you forgot to add my amendment Russ :D
As far as i can see, if you call them and you have either no understanding of PC tech or a very limited understanding then they can problably help you (usually since the problem is simple to solve and will appear on their crib sheet).
If you have something that is either vaguely unusual or outside their limited understanding then yhey have to find a supervisor (I assume the one person in the building with any real knowledge).
This happened to me when I ordered the Virgin wireless router from virgin to replace my old belkin. I had a problem using the install disc they provided (the one without any instructions at all).
It turned out that if i didnt want to exclusively use it as a wireless router then I shouldnt have used the disc - DOH. So I dutifully uninstalled it and still couldnt connect. After 40 minutes of numpy offering suggestions such as turn it off and turn it on again he decided to get his supervisor to call me in 2 hours.
I decided that was pointless so i did a direct connect bypassing the router and googled the router, downloaded the instructions for said router and was online with it in about 10 minutes. In future I will just do it myself but i was under the assumption that since it was a piece of equipment specifically under Virgin hence i called them first not wanting to cause further problems.
Lesson learnt.
Ignitionnet
15-03-2009, 09:58
Outsourcing is likely to be saving me money. I like that.
Yep never mind that the support is, in my experience, pointless. It saves a few pence on the bill.
If your opinion were not so common I'd comment more, but most people would rather pay a bit less and whinge than pay a fraction more and be satisfied.
If I had an option to pay extra to avoid the offshore tech support I would without hesitation take it. They have been utterly pointless without exception in my time as a customer.
VM are running a business not social welfare. It is probable that the greater majority of their millions of customers never need to contact support. Some of their customers who do contact support want to bring that service to the UK where it will cost more. Is it a good business decision to ask the majority to fund the preference of a minority. No, it's not.
Xpod is right, we know where that "somewhere" is that the money will come. Your pocket and my pocket. No thanks.
Besides, you assume that the support here would be better than it is currently.
I do not see the point of still trying to defend the off shore call centres when according to the above poll 80% have voted negatively against them, you cannot defend a defeated vote.
richard1960
15-03-2009, 10:40
There are some companies who are returning to uk shores from india,a few of the utility companies i think,my bank only uses uk call centres and so does my gas/electricity company,if they can i am not sure why vm cannot! :confused:
Another interesting fact is whenever you place a call to order a product be it with vm or my mobile phone company "3",when you ring up to place the order its always a uk call centre funny that,its only later on you find out if you have any problems its overseas for you. Could it be the companies involved realise they are not popular and if you had to order through overseas call centres you may well give up or is that me just being cynical.;)
I think the only reason why people dont like the indian call centre is because its outside the UK and it has nothing to do with the quality of the actual service.
You say that in the face of all the examples of bad service posted in this thread?
I think the only reason why people dont like the indian call centre is because its outside the UK and it has nothing to do with the quality of the actual service.
I think you thought wrong then.
I think the only reason why people dont like the indian call centre is because its outside the UK and it has nothing to do with the quality of the actual service.
Hava read through this thread and check out the result at the top of the thread over 80% of the people voted against offshore call centres.
richard1960
15-03-2009, 11:39
I think the only reason why people dont like the indian call centre is because its outside the UK and it has nothing to do with the quality of the actual service.
Hmmmm why do you not try because the the dialect it can take a lot longer for any problem to be resolved! or because they do not seem to be able to do a lot over in india, as regards resolving problems ie very often they fob you off i have expierienced this in the past,whilst the uk call centres are more willing to help because they find it easier to understand what you want.
One of the utility companies got so many compliants from customers the retuned to the uk,surely that cannot be just coincidence can it?.
DJ_Nik_Gnashers
15-03-2009, 11:52
I have just voted in the poll.
I am the most none-racist none-judgemental person you will ever meet. I have worked for local charities welcoming imigrants into my city, and also helped out ilegal imigrants suffering hardship in my local area. Many of these are none english speaking.
I have also setup many internet radio stations over the past 7 years, the DJ's playing from every different country you can imagine, every race, creed, religion, & colour are always welcome.
I also have had to phone up VM's indian call centres many many times, and I have never EVER been satisfied. It is NOT the fact they are in India, and the staff are Indian, it is not even the dialect barrier, it is not anything other than the fact they are not capable of doing their job its that simple.
I have never yet had a resolved outcome from any issue by means of the indian call centres, and I have had to phone up 50+ times so far.....
I do not see the point of still trying to defend the off shore call centres when according to the above poll 80% have voted negatively against them, you cannot defend a defeated vote.
Lol, of course I can. Before the poll was even set up, everyone knew what its result would be. This isn't exactly a place full of happy shiny people. The poll was to be used as a tool to prove a point but let's look at the stats: only 182 people have voted (which means well over 3.5m other VM customers haven't) and frankly, it's not even the resounding success you seem to be implying - I mean, even here in grumpyville, 20% of customers are either content or don't care.
Not even Russ, who set up the poll, has referred to it as 'successful' because it's pretty meaningless.
Not even Russ, who set up the poll, has referred to it as 'successful' because it's pretty meaningless.
No, it's because the poll hasn't closed yet. When it has then you'll get my summary.
No, it's because the poll hasn't closed yet. When it has then you'll get my summary.
Fair point, but it wasn't me who started to quote poll figures as 'proof' of anything. When the poll closes it will show about 150 people are known to be unhappy with the call centres. My word.
Ignitionnet
15-03-2009, 19:19
Fair point, but it wasn't me who started to quote poll figures as 'proof' of anything. When the poll closes it will show about 150 people are known to be unhappy with the call centres. My word.
When did polls deal in absolutes? They are always samples and percentages as far as I know.
It shows more that 80% are unhappy. Frankly I couldn't care less, I'm unhappy with them to the extent that after wasting my time with them a few times I've only sought support through the newsgroups since.
Unsure why you're trying to belittle either the poll or the overwhelming feeling of posters that VM's offshore centre is unacceptable. That they are taking the axe to thousands of UK staff while continuing the offshoring of jobs leaves a sour taste too.
Fair point, but it wasn't me who started to quote poll figures as 'proof' of anything. When the poll closes it will show about 150 people are known to be unhappy with the call centres. My word.
It is just a cross section of Virgins customer base but then many polls are non too dissimilar to this one and if you apply the results across the board in the way pollsters do then it would be a high percentage.
I work on the other end of the phone and quite often the relief in peoples voices are palpable when they hear a voice that is obviously not from offshore and many comment on that fact.
Now I know that we have good agents offshore but they get tarred with the same brush and the customer often hangs up and calls again till they hear one of us answer.
When did polls deal in absolutes? They are always samples and percentages as far as I know.
It shows more that 80% are unhappy. Frankly I couldn't care less, I'm unhappy with them to the extent that after wasting my time with them a few times I've only sought support through the newsgroups since.
Unsure why you're trying to belittle either the poll or the overwhelming feeling of posters that VM's offshore centre is unacceptable. That they are taking the axe to thousands of UK staff while continuing the offshoring of jobs leaves a sour taste too.
It is just a cross section of Virgins customer base but then many polls are non too dissimilar to this one and if you apply the results across the board in the way pollsters do then it would be a high percentage.
I work on the other end of the phone and quite often the relief in peoples voices are palpable when they hear a voice that is obviously not from offshore and many comment on that fact.
Now I know that we have good agents offshore but they get tarred with the same brush and the customer often hangs up and calls again till they hear one of us answer.
Ok. Look, there's no harm in our having differing viewpoints based on our differerent experiences. I'm certainly not trying to belittle the poll or the views of others; I'm simply presenting an alternative view that we've discussed in a civil manner. As I have no wish just to troll or wind anyone up, I'll leave it at that.
Ok. Look, there's no harm in our having differing viewpoints based on our differerent experiences. I'm certainly not trying to belittle the poll or the views of others; I'm simply presenting an alternative view that we've discussed in a civil manner. As I have no wish just to troll or wind anyone up, I'll leave it at that.
I know what you are saying but I work on the sharp end and what I put in my previous post is correct and any other CSR's that read this will verify what I put in that post.
The is only one viewpoint that matters and that is the customer on the other end of the phone and as I said above the relief in their voice when they hear mine tells a story.
Retrovertigo
16-03-2009, 23:14
I defy anyone to defend the Indian cell centres after this experience I have just had.
I get through to an Indian lady who spoke very good english. I explain how I have been unhappy for a while as the speeds have been getting progressively worse. But that this evening is the final straw as I am on the newsgroups and getting less than 50k download speed - I kid you not.
She then goes on to explain that I have to expect slower speeds in the evening as lots of people use the internet and so speeds slow down somewhat!!!!!!
I try keeping calm and explaining why 50k speeds for £30 a month is simply not on. So she tries talking me through some steps. I decide to see where she is going with this and so admit I have a wireless router (who doesn't these days?) and she asks me to connect my PC straight to the cable modem. (Oh yeah, she has said she has just done a test on my modem while we were talking). I humour her but leave my PC connected through the router as per usual.
She then says to bear with her while she does another test. She restarts the modem from her end and comes back with this "what I can see from my end is that your router is causing a bad signal to your PC and you should but a new one or just connect your PC straight to the modem (seriously, how many people still do that?) - now that you have connected your PC straight to the modem, my test shows that you are getting the full signal (a lie as she obviously hasn't tested for that at all)". She suggests I junk my router and just use wired from now on because routers block the internet signal. So if you are with VM you are screwed if you want wireless it seems ;)
She then asks if there is anything else she can do for me after "solving my problem" and that she hopes I am happy now I have full speed back - I don't of course.
This is where the problems lie. They don't care about lying to customers. They certainly don't grasp that 50k speed is totally unacceptable. Someone from here would have known that even with a busy evening, that speed from a 20meg line is ludicrous. Plus they would have taken it far more seriously when I said I was checking out then best alternative supplier in my area. Which seems to be BE - only 8 meg, but a few friends who are local say it is rock solid after leaving VM themselves.
A total shambles all round really. And disgusting that they lie through their teeth about whatever tests they claim to be doing at their end. That's is the inherent problem when customer service is based in a country not even familiar with the actual service they are supposed to be providing backup for.
I'll be speaking to retentions tomorrow and getting as much as I can get knocked off my bill until I sort out a new provider. I have had enough of this joke of a company.
homealone
17-03-2009, 00:07
I humour her but leave my PC connected through the router as per usual.
This is where the problems lie. They don't care about lying to customers.
A total shambles all round really. And disgusting that they lie through their teeth about whatever tests they claim to be doing at their end.
to be fair you 'lied' to her, also , was that 'disgusting', as well ?
Retrovertigo
17-03-2009, 00:13
No it was designed to prove that the Indian Call centres are appalling and don't best serve the needs of the customers.
But hey, I lied so I'll go back to my crappy net service with my head hung low for being so bad as to test whether they were going to genuinely serve my needs or simply go through the motions without fixing anything, proving that the call centres there are next to useless.
Have you ever watched Rogue Traders? You know where they setup problems to catch out dodgy firms? Should all those firms be let off the hook because Rogue Traders setup complaints that weren't genuine in the first place? I often watch that show and think how disgusting it is that they fabricate problems in order to catch out cowboy firms. Everyone involved with the show should be taken out back and shot!
It never ceases to amaze me what lengths people here will go to to defend shoddy customer service - well done!
edit: I think everyone here knows that they can't tell whether you are using a router or not. So the fact they insist in that get out clause time and again is what makes it stick in the throat. In a time where nearly every ADSL provider gives you a free wireless router when you sign up, it is amazing that VM's stock reply is to imply a router is the source of all problems. But don't let that little detail get in the way of any little beef you might have with what I said to them.
It's amazing that after being lied to, fobbed off, told I should expect 50k speeds as being the norm when the net is busy, that someone here picks up on the fact I told a little lie, with no mention of VM's shoddy service (and it was shoddy). Incredible.
homealone
17-03-2009, 00:34
It's amazing that after being lied to, fobbed off, told I should expect 50k speeds as being the norm when the net is busy, that someone here picks up on the fact I told a little lie, with no mention of VM's shoddy service (and it was shoddy). Incredible.
if you lied, you cannot, in my opinion, condemn another person for lying - I thought it incredible you would do so ....
Retrovertigo
17-03-2009, 00:40
Sigh - as soon as you call with a complaint, and they ask if you have a router, you know what is coming. B;ame the customers equipment. I had detailed to her that in the middle of the night or first thing in the morning that speeds were better - it doesn't take someone reading off a script tp know from that, that my equipment is not at fault.
So I decided to test her - convincing sounding - desire to fix my problem. But I knew what she would say, and she didn't let me down. I don't see what is wrong with telling a white lie in order to expose the bigger problem.
But don't worry, I'm sure your sainthood will be in the post. Now, where is that ignore button when you need it.
You seriously think that it's ok for them to feed me what they told me because I decided to catch them out. It is not a companies place to tell such outrageous untruths when customers call in with problems. There was absolutely no need for me to plug my pc into my modem, you know it and she knew it. End of story.
homealone
17-03-2009, 00:48
Sigh - as soon as you call with a complaint, and they ask if you have a router, you know what is coming. B;ame the customers equipment. I had detailed to her that in the middle of the night or first thing in the morning that speeds were better - it doesn't take someone reading off a script tp know from that, that my equipment is not at fault.
So I decided to test her - convincing sounding - desire to fix my problem. But I knew what she would say, and she didn't let me down. I don't see what is wrong with telling a white lie in order to expose the bigger problem.
But don't worry, I'm sure your sainthood will be in the post. Now, where is that ignore button when you need it.
You seriously think that it's ok for them to feed me what they told me because I decided to catch them out. It is not a companies place to tell such outrageous untruths when customers call in with problems. There was absolutely no need for me to plug my pc into my modem, you know it and she knew it. End of story.
no, I'm saying stick to the facts, forget embellishing the story with trivia & get over the 'she lied to me' whingeing, in order to, hopefully, get your problem sorted out ...
ah, yes, ignore list - thanks :)
Retrovertigo
17-03-2009, 01:01
And therein lies the problem - the last part of your post and why I am "whinging". The idea of this thread is to say how happy people are with the call centres in India and if you are satisfied.
If it has proven anything, it is the fact that I won't get my problem sorted, because as long keep getting put through to India, it won't happen. I can't even count how many times I have spoken to them in the past - plugged my PC directly into my modem, gone through every step they ask - and have usually done so before calling them anyway - and then they give me guff about upgrades, or blame my equipment. It never changes. You can call it whinging, I call it being at the end of my tether after humouring them for the past 12 months.
And the problem will only get worse when they upgrade everyone in my area to a minimum of 10meg. I don't want to leave them as it took me ages reading up on how to setup static I.P address for my Xbox 360 and PS3. I dread having to do that again with new equipment but they have left me with no choice.
Go ahead and read back over the past few years of my posts and the troubles I have had with VM. It may be whinging as far as you are concerned - but hey, I think I have earned it.
edit: for what it's worth, I wasn't being serious about ignoring you. I didn't even know they had an ignore button here. In fact looking now I still can't see one. I haven't ignored anyone on the many forums I go on, and I'm not about to start.
graf_von_anonym
17-03-2009, 02:47
I think you're probably ignoring the fact that the agent was just doing their job. Of course, what their job actually is, and what you think it is are almost certainly two different things.
When you call a call centre you want them to do the thing that they do. Flog you car insurance, move money from your account in the Caymans into your checking account, purposefully mislead you as to the nature of the problem with your internet, have you put on some sort of register, the usual. When a person in a call centre answers a call the agent has to answer the call in a particular way, and that way is almost invariably related to some crude metric involving time or ticking boxes. Call centres, be they "in house", outsourced, or offshore are expected to answer calls according to targets. These targets are numeric, and are always things that can be tracked on a spreadsheet. I mean, just for fun, let us ask "how can we measure delight?".*
So that said, what does get measured? Call times, log rates, repeat calls. Technical support does this, customer services do this. Retentions or Cancellations or whatever they are called in any number of firms, be they mobile telephony internet or car insurance do it, but add bonuses and minimum expectations for things like "customers saved" and "expected revenue shortfall incurred by retention reductions". Sales are usually on a commission basis, there having been questions raised about behaviours under systems that require minimum sales, but some organisations still have them. These numbers, every one of them, from length of a call to time spent in administration have hee-haw to do with how happy you or I are as a customer.
Don't get me wrong, doing the job properly and efficiently will usually produce satisfied customers, and barring the vagaries of the box-ticking exercises this might even be sufficiently prompt as to allow the agent to complete the call in a time that adheres to their expected call profile. If the issue is at all difficult then there's a temptation to fob the customer off, it's inevitable, because the consequences of helping the customer properly outweight the benefits as far as the agent is concerned.
"Fie!", you say. "That's completely unacceptable!". That may well be. It's still your fault. Motivated staff cost money. Keeping staff motivated requires recognising them as humans, rather than machines for interpreting dialect and plugging values into computer screens. One of those processes is abandoning scripts for calls, but that brings the attendant risk of people straying from those scripts. Variation breeds poor customer service, raises call times. You can see long call times in Excel, but there's no way to track how happy someone was as a result. Now, don't get me wrong, they are trying; there's a good chance that almost everyone on this forum who's talked to Virgin Media has received one of those emails that asks if we'd recommend Virgin Media to a friend. Though the obvious point here is the scope of the metric; two measures, a range from 1 to 10. That kind of granularity does not good policy make. More to the point, my suspicion is that it's sourced from an American organisation, because the septics are amazingly fond of trying to make numbers out of intangibles, so I'd guess 70% is the "pass" mark rather than 50%. The thing is that all this stuff costs money, and that requires either squeezing already narrow profit margins or charging customers more. Given the choice, most organisations will just eat up the discontent, smooth out the grumbling where it flares with a discount here, an apology there. It's easier, organisationally, to treat everyone equally badly and then soothe the ones who complain until they either stop complaining or leave. "I'd be perfectly willing to pay £5 extra a month for a quality service" is heard from many a person, but when it comes to the wallet, that £60 is pretty loud. It will get louder.
Of course, you don't have to listen to me. I intensely dislike everyone dissimilar to me, and since I'm a beautiful unique snowflake I'm turned against anyone without an icy exterior and a heart made of grit.
* If your answer involved electrodes, PET, seretonin level monitoring or blush response you are a) most of the way there, and b) advised to remember that chicks don't dig Mad Science on the first date; A lesson I have learned the hard way.
Mick Fisher
17-03-2009, 21:45
All of which is of absolutely no concern to the Sub whose BB has gone down, who rings support, who gets through to someone who appears to not understand what he is saying and whose English is extremely difficult to interpret, who appears to have little knowledge of Computing and who appears to have little knowledge of the products he is supposed to be supporting.
Just another second rate service supplied by VM.
second rate... i think it's more like 3rd rate or first rate for the poor service!
Retrovertigo
17-03-2009, 21:50
I have to say one thing I have noticed. Call retentions instead of tech support and you seem to get an brit every time - funny that ;)
slowcoach
18-03-2009, 17:50
As I posted in another thread, today I have been onto India for the fifth time trying to get access to my web space restored.
Each time I have gone through the same routine as they try to reset the password even though I mention each time that the last contact tried and failed, E-mail password will reset, web space will not, I need second level support to sort it out but this appears to be against their orders.
Leave it for 72 hours – 24 Hours – 36 Hours and call back if the problem has not miraculously healed itself.
Calling TS these days is a total waste of everyone's time, can't remember the last time I got through to a UK call centre but I remember the problem was fixed within a few minutes.
If it hadn't been for the TS agent one day who began “Hello, my name is Rocky”, which had me rolling on the floor, I think I would have lost my rag this past week, I had to tell him that in the UK he would be called Rocky Posonby-Smythe or some other made up poncy doubled barrelled surname.
Ah well, time to make another call, I WILL NOT BE BEATEN! .... even though I know I cannot win. :D
mullerman
18-03-2009, 18:13
my experience with the indian call centres have not been very good.the 3 times ive been put through to them they have not been able to help me technically or with ordering a modem so im affraid from MY experience, in this poll, i can only vote the way my service has been provided which is poor.on the 3 occassions they could not help i managed by luck (and mr moos tips) to get through to british staff who sorted me out in minutes.is the slight language barrier a problem(im a yorkshire lad,the wife cant always understand what i say) or is it poor training,maybe they are not aware of the latest offers as soon as british based staff?,i dont know,all i do know is if i want a problem sorted out quickly and one i have confidence in i will try my damndest to contact a british based contact.
Raistlin
18-03-2009, 18:28
It's not just VM's call centres, it's all of them.
I've yet to find an off-shore call centre that's anything other than bloody awful.
I've taken to taking my business away from service providers/businesses where I have problems with their off-shore centre and writing to the MD/CEO to tell them why.
I expect they don't care, but it makes me feel better.
kayc3660
18-03-2009, 20:56
Lol, of course I can. Before the poll was even set up, everyone knew what its result would be. This isn't exactly a place full of happy shiny people. The poll was to be used as a tool to prove a point but let's look at the stats: only 182 people have voted (which means well over 3.5m other VM customers haven't) and frankly, it's not even the resounding success you seem to be implying - I mean, even here in grumpyville, 20% of customers are either content or don't care.
Not even Russ, who set up the poll, has referred to it as 'successful' because it's pretty meaningless.
I have to say the poll might be useless, but thats only because the other 3.5m virgin customers you mention dont know this site exists. if they did perhaps we would see how bad Virgin are, and after all its human nature to complain when something is wrong, but we dont see the need to put pen to paper to say that we are 'relatively satisfied' or 'dont care'. Yes I know there are other companies to go to but there is not much to choose between them. Better the Devil you know, as they say. Again human nature, we're scared to change incase it just ends up worse, or you end up paying both companies as no one seems to be able to work their computers going by the 'computer errors' that keep getting blamed. People, it seems can never be held responsible. We come to this site so that we know its not just us, not personal, cos thats what it seems like sometimes. It may be 'grumpyville' but we all feel better after venting and if we can find someone who has gone through something similar, it helps. Sometimes, others experiences can actually help sort out our own problems. Unfortunately Customer Service dosnt really seem to be that anymore. One reason why Sales and Retentions get the British staff. Once you are a customer, they suddenly find your not so important.
General Maximus
18-03-2009, 22:07
I have to say the poll might be useless, but thats only because the other 3.5m virgin customers you mention dont know this site exists. if they did perhaps we would see how bad Virgin are, and after all its human nature to complain when something is wrong
I am glad you said that because there are 2 ways to looks at this. I was going to ask that one of the cable forum team posts the results to somebody they know at VM just so that they have the feedback as I do believe it is an alarmingly high % of us who do believe the indian call centers are useless.
To be fair I would agree with VM that it is not valid from a stastistical point of view due to the sample population (us members who are prone to moaning :) ).
Nevertheless, the results clearly show that something is wrong. The guys that monitor TV (i think it is the advertising standards agency) kick major ass as soon as somebody complains about tv progs or adverts. I can't remember the specifics but I can remember 2 or 3 occassions last year when the BBC aired a tv prog and Sky did an advert which I think practically everyone was happy with but it was in the newspapers because the ASA were looking into it because 13 people complained (out of 70 million in this country). If 13 people can complain about a tv prog which millions are happy with why cant a few hundred or few thousand unhappy VM customers be heard.
The poll maybe be mis-respresentative of VMs customer base but it still indicates a serious problem in their tech support and those concerns should be heard. I can't think of any area of business or anything else for that matter which would think an 83% disapproval rating in their level of service is acceptable.
I am glad you said that because there are 2 ways to looks at this. I was going to ask that one of the cable forum team posts the results to somebody they know at VM just so that they had the feedback as I do believe it is an alarmingly high % of us who do believe the indian call centers are useless.
Showing that to our contacts is unlikely to make much difference as companies like VM and many other will only take direction from focus groups, and not directly from their customers. It might seem counter-productive but companies have been working that way for years.
I am glad you said that because there are 2 ways to looks at this. I was going to ask that one of the cable forum team posts the results to somebody they know at VM just so that they have the feedback as I do believe it is an alarmingly high % of us who do believe the indian call centers are useless.
Money talks and while it continues to be cheaper to use Off shore call centres and the customer base does not leave in droves or complain, then we will continue to have these call centres unless it becomes a brilliant marketing ploy to bring all call centres home to be UK based.
General Maximus
18-03-2009, 22:31
unless it becomes a brilliant marketing ploy to bring all call centres home to be UK based.
funny you should say that because I have noticed an increasingly large amount of adverts on TV now advertising UK based call centers to the point that I don't actually know what is being advertised (Coca Cola or car insurance?) and what is good about that brand/company apart from the fact that they have UK call centers. And just to prove a point, on Sky it is insurance adverts/sue/claim adverts galore to the point that it just becomes a blur but the one that has stood out to me which I noticed this morning was LVE car insurance and that was because they were primarily advertising UK call centers and that is it, and I must admit that as a selling feature (which it even shouldn't be considered as one) it is something which appeals to me now because of the poor experience I have had with indian call centers (albeit from a a different business sector). I don't know what proportion of businessed or types of businesses use foreign call centers but I am fortunate in that all the people i need to ring for my mobile phone (car phone warehouse) and car insurance (priviledge) are all UK. As stupid as it sounds, if i was looking for another provider for something and I found out they didn't use UK call centers, I wouldn't go with them out of principal. The french wouldn't like using UK call centers so why should UK peops tolerate non-UK call centers?
funny you should say that because I have noticed an increasingly large amount of adverts on TV now advertising UK based call centers to the point that I don't actually know what is being advertised (Coca Cola or car insurance?) and what is good about that brand/company apart from the fact that they have UK call centers. And just to prove a point, on Sky it is insurance adverts/sue/claim adverts galore to the point that it just becomes a blur but the one that has stood out to me which I noticed this morning was LVE car insurance and that was because they were primarily advertising UK call centers and that is it, and I must admit that as a selling feature (which it even shouldn't be considered as one) it is something which appeals to me now because of the poor experience I have had with indian call centers (albeit from a a different business sector). I don't know what proportion of businessed or types of businesses use foreign call centers but I am fortunate in that all the people i need to ring for my mobile phone (car phone warehouse) and car insurance (priviledge) are all UK. As stupid as it sounds, if i was looking for another provider for something and I found out they didn't use UK call centers, I wouldn't go with them out of principal. The french wouldn't like using UK call centers so why should UK peops tolerate non-UK call centers?
The french equivalent would probably be algeria or morroco and I wonder how they would react to that.
If it becomes a commercial reason then they will return to the UK but while they can get away with it then they will continue to give us poor service.
But bringing the call centres back may not make the problem go away, as to cut costs they may just bring in minimum wage staff with the same scripts and not staff with an interest in computers that are also trained as they cost more, which is the present situation in Virgin UK call centres for Tech Support.
Retrovertigo
19-03-2009, 00:02
I know someone who went for a job at pipex I believe it was, about 12 months ago. She was going for a job doing phone support and as part of the interview was given various scenarios where things may have gone wrong and how she might go about giving advice to customers. No crib sheets, no scripts, just tested on her knowledge of P.C's and general network setup. It's a shame VM don't follow that same philosophy.
I know someone who went for a job at pipex I believe it was, about 12 months ago. She was going for a job doing phone support and as part of the interview was given various scenarios where things may have gone wrong and how she might go about giving advice to customers. No crib sheets, no scripts, just tested on her knowledge of P.C's and general network setup. It's a shame VM don't follow that same philosophy.
We do that in the UK and then have full training and support for the first few weeks on the phones.
General Maximus
19-03-2009, 11:41
it is a shame they dont apply the same standards across all VM then
Looks like things are about to get worse....
http://www.contact-centres.com/0309.virgin.htm
The contact centre which handles calls and enquiries from Virgin Mobiles customers is thought to be considering outsourcing overseas as part of a cost cutting exercise.
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