View Full Version : Engineer on-site, what can he do?!
billyhoward
20-02-2009, 18:41
Hi all,
I have finally managed to get an engineer booked for tommorow after many many phone calls to VM.
To explain breifly, i've been getting intermitent packet loss, slow speed etc. I'm on the 50meg service
I want a list of things i can get him to do whilst he is here. I do not want to have to call them out again!!
So far, I have:
-Replace Modem
-Increase SNR from street (it's currently around 19, should be above 25)
-Install an isolator.
Any other things they can do whilst on-site. I basically just want him todo everything possible in order to resolve my issue.
Thanks
Billy
The engineer will be a 50Mb specialist so he will be able to check for any issues and decide on the best way to resolve your issue.
billyhoward
20-02-2009, 19:52
You would be suprised. The last engineer that came out wasn't - he didnt have a clue!
You would be suprised. The last engineer that came out wasn't - he didnt have a clue!
50Mb customers are only supposed to get trained 50Mb engineers.
50Mb customers are only supposed to get trained 50Mb engineers.
and what is the training??
and what is the training??
How would I know I am not a Virgin Engineer, but that is supposed to be how they are playing it.
Hi all,
I have finally managed to get an engineer booked for tommorow after many many phone calls to VM.
To explain breifly, i've been getting intermitent packet loss, slow speed etc. I'm on the 50meg service
I want a list of things i can get him to do whilst he is here. I do not want to have to call them out again!!
So far, I have:
-Replace Modem
-Increase SNR from street (it's currently around 19, should be above 25)
-Install an isolator.
Any other things they can do whilst on-site. I basically just want him todo everything possible in order to resolve my issue.
Thanks
Billy
i assume you were on 20meg before? if so what was the speed service like, and how intermittent is your problem?
also how are you checking for packett loss?
Just let he or she do their job and fingers crossed they get it right this time. They've probably already been told by the job sheet what needs fitting/replacing and testing. All you need to do is
1. Get the kettle ready
2. Explain what problems you're experiencing, just in case something was missed. You never know, they might have a light bulb appear above their head as to what the problem is and how to fix it.
I know you’re trying to get it sorted out this time, but there's nowt worse than someone telling you how to do your job.
The engineer will be a 50Mb specialist so he will be able to check for any issues and decide on the best way to resolve your issue.
Well unfortunately he wasn't, if he is needing an isolator fitted, if the SNR is presently at 19db he as totally bodged the install.
Basically when the Engineer turns up, he should be checking the street cabinet for forward and return levels Making sure the levels at the cabinet are in spec. Checking the tap port and connector in the cab.
In the garden at the omni box, the connectors and any splitters should be replaced if they haven't already been done by original person who installed the 50Mb, checking the levels at this point as well. Inside the same, levels connectors, isolators fitted or replaced, levels checked at point where modem is, internal cabling should be visually checked. Once modem connected, the diagnostics should be checked, Downstream should be connecting between -3/+3dBdB, the correct downstream frequency and symbol rate, Upstream SNR should be above 35dB, Upstream should be connecting between 35-50dB at the most.
Also they should have a decent test equipment to be able to perform these checks, but thats another story.
Well unfortunately he wasn't, if he is needing an isolator fitted, if the SNR is presently at 19db he as totally bodged the install.
Basically when the Engineer turns up, he should be checking the street cabinet for forward and return levels Making sure the levels at the cabinet are in spec. Checking the tap port and connector in the cab.
In the garden at the omni box, the connectors and any splitters should be replaced if they haven't already been done by original person who installed the 50Mb, checking the levels at this point as well. Inside the same, levels connectors, isolators fitted or replaced, levels checked at point where modem is, internal cabling should be visually checked. Once modem connected, the diagnostics should be checked, Downstream should be connecting between -3/+3dBdB, the correct downstream frequency and symbol rate, Upstream SNR should be above 35dB, Upstream should be connecting between 35-50dB at the most.
Also they should have a decent test equipment to be able to perform these checks, but thats another story.
in the real world how long as the tech got to perform the above duties? and as for the correct downstream frequency and symbol rate!!!
in the real world how long as the tech got to perform the above duties? and as for the correct downstream frequency and symbol rate!!!
This should be the norm, what about the correct DS and symbol rate.
This should be the norm, what about the correct DS and symbol rate.
i know it should be the norm but im asking how long as the tech got to do the tasks? the correct ds is whatever it locks onto they vary area by area and the tech cannot alter this.
i know it should be the norm but im asking how long as the tech got to do the tasks? the correct ds is whatever it locks onto they vary area by area and the tech cannot alter this.
I not sure as to how long time each install has allocated but with a prestige product as this is, every install should be done correctly.Are you going to tell how long the each install is allocated then?
Yes the DS vary depending on what area or legacy region they are in but whatever the DS is and associated symbol rate, this should be checked to make sure it is correct and is locking on.
the tech gets 1 hr on a install including travel time from his last job so anything from 30-50mins on site is not always enough.
billyhoward
20-02-2009, 21:45
Hi all,
Thanks for the replies.
First thing i would like to point out is that when i had the 50meg service (i did indeed used to be on the 20meg service) the egineer did not do anything other than swap out the cable modem. It's all a bit shabby really the guy was here for about 15/20 minutes and that's it. he defo did not check signals because he didnt use a tool to check, he didnt leave my house to the street cab, and he certainly didnt visit the status page on the modem.
So with above said; I will be asking the next engineer if he could do the following:
- Replace any splitters (i assume this should be done, pelase confirm, also what is the reson)
- Check the signal is to correct standards (could anyone confirm this, and the correct signals, and how i can check before he leaves)
- Replace the modem as it is defenetly faulty.. upon booting up it takes about 25 minutes to an hour to come online again, with alot og t2/4 timeouts.
- install isolater. (can you confirm what this does? i've just been told this is a good thing to have)
An example error log from modem:
Thu Feb 12 03:21:56 2009 Thu Feb 12 03:22:46 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 03:22:47 2009 Thu Feb 12 03:22:47 2009 Warning (5) B-INIT-RNG Failure - Retries exceeded;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 03:22:48 2009 Thu Feb 12 03:22:52 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 03:23:23 2009 Thu Feb 12 03:24:32 2009 Critical (3) Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Unicast Maintenance opportunities received - T4 time out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 03:24:42 2009 Thu Feb 12 03:25:30 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 03:25:34 2009 Thu Feb 12 03:25:34 2009 Warning (5) B-INIT-RNG Failure - Retries exceeded;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 03:26:06 2009 Thu Feb 12 03:26:06 2009 Critical (3) Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Unicast Maintenance opportunities received - T4 time out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 03:26:07 2009 Thu Feb 12 03:26:08 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 03:36:10 2009 Thu Feb 12 03:36:10 2009 Critical (3) Unicast Ranging Received Abort Response - initializing MAC;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 03:36:48 2009 Thu Feb 12 03:36:48 2009 Critical (3) Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Unicast Maintenance opportunities received - T4 time out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 03:36:59 2009 Thu Feb 12 03:37:44 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 03:37:49 2009 Thu Feb 12 03:37:49 2009 Warning (5) B-INIT-RNG Failure - Retries exceeded;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 03:37:50 2009 Thu Feb 12 03:38:31 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 03:38:33 2009 Thu Feb 12 03:38:33 2009 Warning (5) B-INIT-RNG Failure - Retries exceeded;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 03:39:05 2009 Thu Feb 12 03:39:05 2009 Critical (3) Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Unicast Maintenance opportunities received - T4 time out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 03:39:08 2009 Thu Feb 12 03:39:08 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:01:47 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:01:47 2009 Critical (3) Unicast Ranging Received Abort Response - initializing MAC;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:02:22 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:02:22 2009 Critical (3) Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Unicast Maintenance opportunities received - T4 time out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:02:33 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:03:29 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:03:31 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:03:31 2009 Warning (5) B-INIT-RNG Failure - Retries exceeded;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:03:33 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:03:36 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:04:07 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:04:07 2009 Critical (3) Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Unicast Maintenance opportunities received - T4 time out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:04:14 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:04:14 2009 Warning (5) RCS Partial Service;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:04:18 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:04:18 2009 Critical (3) Unicast Ranging Received Abort Response - initializing MAC;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:04:56 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:04:56 2009 Critical (3) Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Unicast Maintenance opportunities received - T4 time out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:05:06 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:06:02 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:06:08 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:06:08 2009 Warning (5) B-INIT-RNG Failure - Retries exceeded;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:06:10 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:06:54 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:06:59 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:06:59 2009 Warning (5) B-INIT-RNG Failure - Retries exceeded;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:07:30 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:07:30 2009 Critical (3) Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Unicast Maintenance opportunities received - T4 time out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:07:32 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:07:32 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:08:58 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:08:58 2009 Critical (3) Unicast Ranging Received Abort Response - initializing MAC;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:09:36 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:09:36 2009 Critical (3) Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Unicast Maintenance opportunities received - T4 time out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:09:47 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:10:38 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:10:44 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:10:44 2009 Warning (5) B-INIT-RNG Failure - Retries exceeded;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:10:45 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:11:33 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:11:38 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:11:38 2009 Warning (5) B-INIT-RNG Failure - Retries exceeded;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:12:09 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:12:09 2009 Critical (3) Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Unicast Maintenance opportunities received - T4 time out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
Thu Feb 12 09:12:11 2009 Thu Feb 12 09:12:13 2009 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=00:22:68:f0:0b:97;CMTS-MAC=00:21:55:cb:41:3e;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
And i'm pinging several external sources from my network to check for packet loss. note that sometimes i can't even access the internet.
Thanks
Billy
hairy_mick
20-02-2009, 21:47
Yer that snr is very poor should be 35dB min. Tech could get 12 to 15 jobs at that rate time per job about 30mins that does not include travel.
Hi all,
Thanks for the replies.
First thing i would like to point out is that when i had the 50meg service (i did indeed used to be on the 20meg service) the egineer did not do anything other than swap out the cable modem.
if the tech checked the levels and did a visual on everything else then that is all thats needed also is your modem cable coming from a internal splitter? if so that cable might be fed from the isolater so another one would not need to be fitted.
billyhoward
20-02-2009, 22:21
if the tech checked the levels and did a visual on everything else then that is all thats needed also is your modem cable coming from a internal splitter? if so that cable might be fed from the isolater so another one would not need to be fitted.
Hi didnt check any levels. he literally did the following;
-Come in
-Unplug the old modem
-Plug in the new one
-phoned up and activated the modem
-left.
He didnt look for splitters (i do have one) or check the cables either inside or outside. all wires are hidden so he only saw the end of the coaxial where it goes into my modem since he replaced that.
also on my 50meg modem, where do i see the sNR etc and what else should i look for (i only know it's low because tech support told me).. btw i managed to speak to a 2nd liner - but tbh even he wasn't that clued up.
I just need to compile a list of things to ensure he checks, i'm not going to be rude, i will kindly explain my situation and my frustration and ask him kindly if he would do the following [insert list of things].
So if someone could just give me that list (it's mostly guess work for me, and reading any help from you guys) and any particular levels i'm looking for, that would be great!
Thanks
Billy
---------- Post added at 22:21 ---------- Previous post was at 22:10 ----------
Just FYI:
MOD:Picture edited to remove MAC's and placed as an attachment
Is my modem pages.
I'd edit that so any serial numbers and your MAC address are not visible
Downstream looks ok, upstream is connected at 54.75dB this needs to be below 50dB.
Event log seems at some point didn't get Time Of Day from DHCP server?
Look at my last post, that is what he should have done originally, they are pushed for time yes, but these check MUST be done.
Downstream looks ok, upstream is connected at 54.75dB this needs to be below 50dB.
Event log seems at some point didn't get Time Of Day from DHCP server?
Look at my last post, that is what he should have done originally, they are pushed for time yes, but these check MUST be done.
are you a manager? or just someone who lives in la-la land?
are you a manager? or just someone who lives in la-la land?
Oh dear, no, someone who does know. Grow up. Im trying to help the OP, if you want a silly slanging match PM me.
---------- Post added at 00:10 ---------- Previous post was at 00:02 ----------
---------- Post added at 00:22 ---------- Previous post was at 00:10 ----------
Billyhoward check your PM
The Installer
21-02-2009, 02:12
Look at my last post, that is what he should have done originally, they are pushed for time yes, but these check MUST be done.
So you are not a Virgin engineer but you know what his job is do you ..... :erm: Oh dear
Please tell me if you have done the job before or not.
All very well saying he must do this and he must do that but in the real world the tech who turns up will know what he must do as he will be doing it 15 or 16 times a day and 5 days a week so really i think you should leave the dictating alone :o:
To the OP,
Do you have an isolator at the moment ? If you have a white box on your inside wall where the cable comes through then thats where the isolator is. Also changing splitters will not suddenly make it work. The tech will check your signal levels at the modem and adjust them if required. If you have good signal levels and the bad SNR is on the upstream (his meter can't see this) then all the tech who turns up will and can do is refer the job to the network department for them to resolve and don't ask how long that will take and no you can't have a network engineer booked to look at your modem instead of a normal tech.
As for the modem, why would you need the modem to be changed ? The problem could just be your signal level and changing the modem will accomplish nothing.
Your best bet rather than making a list of things to present to the guy is get the kettle on, tell him whats wrong and be nice (yes this will make a difference and might get him to do that little bit more for you!). As for packet loss etc a normal tech (no not some super 50meg tech) will not be able to help you, chances are your packet loss will dissapear once your SNR is sorted as the problem will be linked but as i say if its on the upstream then your tech tomorrow might have to refer the job to network for them to resolve but if thats done then atleast you have a chance of getting your problem resolved.
So you are not a Virgin engineer but you know what his job is do you ..... :erm: Oh dear
Please tell me if you have done the job before or not.
All very well saying he must do this and he must do that but in the real world the tech who turns up will know what he must do as he will be doing it 15 or 16 times a day and 5 days a week so really i think you should leave the dictating alone :o:
To the OP,
Do you have an isolator at the moment ? If you have a white box on your inside wall where the cable comes through then thats where the isolator is. Also changing splitters will not suddenly make it work. The tech will check your signal levels at the modem and adjust them if required. If you have good signal levels and the bad SNR is on the upstream (his meter can't see this) then all the tech who turns up will and can do is refer the job to the network department for them to resolve and don't ask how long that will take and no you can't have a network engineer booked to look at your modem instead of a normal tech.
As for the modem, why would you need the modem to be changed ? The problem could just be your signal level and changing the modem will accomplish nothing.
Your best bet rather than making a list of things to present to the guy is get the kettle on, tell him whats wrong and be nice (yes this will make a difference and might get him to do that little bit more for you!). As for packet loss etc a normal tech (no not some super 50meg tech) will not be able to help you, chances are your packet loss will dissapear once your SNR is sorted as the problem will be linked but as i say if its on the upstream then your tech tomorrow might have to refer the job to network for them to resolve but if thats done then atleast you have a chance of getting your problem resolved.
Good grief, you have just repeated what i have already said. And yes i do know what im talking about, but like i've already stated please PM me if you want A SILLY ARGUMENT.
Hi all,
I have finally managed to get an engineer booked for tommorow after many many phone calls to VM.
To explain breifly, i've been getting intermitent packet loss, slow speed etc. I'm on the 50meg service
I want a list of things i can get him to do whilst he is here. I do not want to have to call them out again!!
So far, I have:
-Replace Modem
-Increase SNR from street (it's currently around 19, should be above 25)
-Install an isolator.
Any other things they can do whilst on-site. I basically just want him todo everything possible in order to resolve my issue.
Thanks
Billy
any news?
May be they've messed it up even more and Billy has lost his connection all together.
billyhoward
21-02-2009, 20:17
Hi All,
My apologies, i've been very busy today!
Yes - The engineer has been round and had a look at everything, he wacked me up to the top tap in the streetcab, but that actually made it a little worse.
He's refered the issue to there network team who apparently will be out in the next 24hours.
He was a little clued up though, he checked all the signals, changed the splitters etc.
Although it's a little worse, I don't mind it too much as it means we can move foward with the issue.
Billy
Ignitionnet
21-02-2009, 21:19
Well unfortunately he wasn't, if he is needing an isolator fitted, if the SNR is presently at 19db he as totally bodged the install.
Basically when the Engineer turns up, he should be checking the street cabinet for forward and return levels Making sure the levels at the cabinet are in spec. Checking the tap port and connector in the cab.
In the garden at the omni box, the connectors and any splitters should be replaced if they haven't already been done by original person who installed the 50Mb, checking the levels at this point as well. Inside the same, levels connectors, isolators fitted or replaced, levels checked at point where modem is, internal cabling should be visually checked. Once modem connected, the diagnostics should be checked, Downstream should be connecting between -3/+3dBdB, the correct downstream frequency and symbol rate, Upstream SNR should be above 35dB, Upstream should be connecting between 35-50dB at the most.
Also they should have a decent test equipment to be able to perform these checks, but thats another story.
Where does the above come from? Seems a bit excessive to say the least for what's just a few EuroDOCSIS channels?
If DTV is working smoothly and properly sloped chances are that 50M will be fine. Downstream power has a much larger tolerance than +/-3dB, the modem should not connect to the wrong downstream frequency or symbol rate unless it's munted it should hit the primary downstream at 299 / 299.75MHz where it acquires the rest of the bonded group at 307 / 307.75 and 315 / 315.75MHz. AFAIK these modems won't connect to a legacy downstream, they need a primary D3 downstream.
Symbol rate is unnecessary to check, it'll be 6.952Msym/s as per EuroDOCSIS or the Edge QAM will have failed installation.
50dBmV is not problematic for upstream power, so long as the upstream is reasonably clean it will be fine so long as stable right up to 55dBmV.
I presume when you mentioned Upstream SNR being 35dB or better you meant downstream, 35dB upstream on the D3 service group is fantasy land sadly.
Likely this chap's issues relate to upstream SNR, adjusting to higher tap in the cab would have increased Rx and reduced Tx power at the modem and sorted that marginal 54.75dBmV Tx power but wouldn't have done anything if there were noise issues.
Anyways I think that's it, the upstream is noisy and can't hack 16QAM - note the T3 / T4 timeouts compared with the minimal RS Uncorrectables on the downstream which probably came from when the modem was getting RS sync.
I could be totally wrong of course.
As far as these 50Mbit specialists go, they appear to be arriving, dropping off the modem, in some cases not even knowing how to activate the modem. One guy was fortunate enough to have an install, then a repull to fix his speeds which accomplished nothing as there wasn't evidence of downstream issues, they didn't do any troubleshooting just booked the repull.
billyhoward
21-02-2009, 21:32
Where does the above come from? Seems a bit excessive to say the least for what's just a few EuroDOCSIS channels?
If DTV is working smoothly and properly sloped chances are that 50M will be fine. Downstream power has a much larger tolerance than +/-3dB, the modem should not connect to the wrong downstream frequency or symbol rate unless it's munted it should hit the primary downstream at 299 / 299.75MHz where it acquires the rest of the bonded group at 307 / 307.75 and 315 / 315.75MHz. AFAIK these modems won't connect to a legacy downstream, they need a primary D3 downstream.
Symbol rate is unnecessary to check, it'll be 6.952Msym/s as per EuroDOCSIS or the Edge QAM will have failed installation.
50dBmV is not problematic for upstream power, so long as the upstream is reasonably clean it will be fine so long as stable right up to 55dBmV.
I presume when you mentioned Upstream SNR being 35dB or better you meant downstream, 35dB upstream on the D3 service group is fantasy land sadly.
Likely this chap's issues relate to upstream SNR, adjusting to higher tap in the cab would have increased Rx and reduced Tx power at the modem and sorted that marginal 54.75dBmV Tx power but wouldn't have done anything if there were noise issues.
Anyways I think that's it, the upstream is noisy and can't hack 16QAM - note the T3 / T4 timeouts compared with the minimal RS Uncorrectables on the downstream which probably came from when the modem was getting RS sync.
I could be totally wrong of course.
As far as these 50Mbit specialists go, they appear to be arriving, dropping off the modem, in some cases not even knowing how to activate the modem. One guy was fortunate enough to have an install, then a repull to fix his speeds which accomplished nothing as there wasn't evidence of downstream issues, they didn't do any troubleshooting just booked the repull.
You're absolutly right, however the 54.75dBmV went up to 58.
Billy
As far as these 50Mbit specialists go, they appear to be arriving, dropping off the modem, in some cases not even knowing how to activate the modem. One guy was fortunate enough to have an install, then a repull to fix his speeds which accomplished nothing as there wasn't evidence of downstream issues, they didn't do any troubleshooting just booked the repull.
Sounds like credit crunch cost cutting coming in. Get a load of monkeys in. Show them a power point slide or two and then give them a certificate to say they're qualified and send them out.
Since us Brits are pansies at complaining they'll get away with it.
Ignitionnet
21-02-2009, 21:44
You're absolutly right, however the 54.75dBmV went up to 58.
Billy
Ah when that happened game over and there are your errors.
Return path needs lining up to reduce your transmit power, network guys will be able to do this and resolve things.
Should ideally have been done before the product was released but would have taken too long to sweep every node and VM don't have the manpower.
Where does the above come from? Seems a bit excessive to say the least for what's just a few EuroDOCSIS channels?
If DTV is working smoothly and properly sloped chances are that 50M will be fine. Downstream power has a much larger tolerance than +/-3dB, the modem should not connect to the wrong downstream frequency or symbol rate unless it's munted it should hit the primary downstream at 299 / 299.75MHz where it acquires the rest of the bonded group at 307 / 307.75 and 315 / 315.75MHz. AFAIK these modems won't connect to a legacy downstream, they need a primary D3 downstream.
Symbol rate is unnecessary to check, it'll be 6.952Msym/s as per EuroDOCSIS or the Edge QAM will have failed installation.
50dBmV is not problematic for upstream power, so long as the upstream is reasonably clean it will be fine so long as stable right up to 55dBmV.
I presume when you mentioned Upstream SNR being 35dB or better you meant downstream, 35dB upstream on the D3 service group is fantasy land sadly.
Likely this chap's issues relate to upstream SNR, adjusting to higher tap in the cab would have increased Rx and reduced Tx power at the modem and sorted that marginal 54.75dBmV Tx power but wouldn't have done anything if there were noise issues.
Anyways I think that's it, the upstream is noisy and can't hack 16QAM - note the T3 / T4 timeouts compared with the minimal RS Uncorrectables on the downstream which probably came from when the modem was getting RS sync.
I could be totally wrong of course.
As far as these 50Mbit specialists go, they appear to be arriving, dropping off the modem, in some cases not even knowing how to activate the modem. One guy was fortunate enough to have an install, then a repull to fix his speeds which accomplished nothing as there wasn't evidence of downstream issues, they didn't do any troubleshooting just booked the repull.
Basically your not wrong, but by SIMPLY pointing out what should be done and what should be happening the installer should be looking at what i have already pointed out. Tese checks are some of the 12 checks that the installer or service tech should be doing, this would go some way to having the product, whether it be DTV or Broadband to work properly.
55dB Is the very max that 16QAM should be working at, yes it will work over this as we know but to make sure if you have the upstream locking on at around 50dB this will allow any fluctuation in level in the return path, obviously you do not want to be locking on at 55db only to have the levels fluctuating between 55-58db do you, so better to be lower.
Yep i did mean the downstream being 35db or better. I meant 16QAM for the upstream,(ideally of course). as around 29db you'll start to get errors.
Symbol rate although this won't change at the UBR, sometimes for some reason the modem itself can report this being wrong because its faulty so when checking the diagnostics its always saves you time to have a quick look to see if this has happened, thats the reason i mentioned that one.
Again same with the downstream frequencies always take the time to check these as again the modem sometimes will lock on just off the DS channel when faulty.
The excessive comes from experience of doing the job, unfortunately the simple checks have been lost over the years because of excessive work load,( i agree) and improper training.
So i'am saying this not because i think i know it all,or because i think i know more, or because i like to pick holes, or i like to sound technical and come out with some fancy words but because from experience of working in the network.
---------- Post added at 21:51 ---------- Previous post was at 21:44 ----------
Ah when that happened game over and there are your errors.
Return path needs lining up to reduce your transmit power, network guys will be able to do this and resolve things.
Should ideally have been done before the product was released but would have taken too long to sweep every node and VM don't have the manpower.
Just depends really on how this install has taken place, splitters, incorrect position on tap, faulty cabling and like you say the network will affect the level at which the modem will transmit to lock on.
Ignitionnet
21-02-2009, 21:54
Ah was just interested in where the info came from was all.
I'm sure you've an opinion regarding sweeping of nodes and lack of prep on the network for the 50Mbit :)
---------- Post added at 21:54 ---------- Previous post was at 21:53 ----------
Just depends really on how this install has taken place, splitters, incorrect position on tap, faulty cabling and like you say the network will affect the level at which the modem will transmit to lock on.
That the downstream MER and receive power are good makes me think it's probably network needing lining up especially as a tap move didn't work.
Hi All,
My apologies, i've been very busy today!
Yes - The engineer has been round and had a look at everything, he wacked me up to the top tap in the streetcab, but that actually made it a little worse.
He's refered the issue to there network team who apparently will be out in the next 24hours.
He was a little clued up though, he checked all the signals, changed the splitters etc.
Although it's a little worse, I don't mind it too much as it means we can move foward with the issue.
Billy
Good that is what should have been done when you had it installed. Hope he hasn't just attenuated the forward levels with an attenuator just to get the reverse levels sorted though by putting you on a low loss tap, as this will ne checking again.
---------- Post added at 21:59 ---------- Previous post was at 21:55 ----------
Ah was just interested in where the info came from was all.
I'm sure you've an opinion regarding sweeping of nodes and lack of prep on the network for the 50Mbit :)
---------- Post added at 21:54 ---------- Previous post was at 21:53 ----------
That the downstream MER and receive power are good makes me think it's probably network needing lining up especially as a tap move didn't work.
Yep that could be the problem, yes the network definately does need more sweeping and balancing, forward and return path level.
Does seem to be a total lack of thought for the local network from those above, i don't think anyone has actually put any thought into that but that dosen't surprise me at all.
All i can say the area i work in has always been regulary swept and balance from day one.
The network teams in every area really ought to try and do as much prep work before it is released into there area,(again manpower depending).
network sweeping, balancing ,12 point checks what a loverly dream :rolleyes:
network sweeping, balancing ,12 point checks what a loverly dream :rolleyes:
Yep
symptom of 12 point checks
http://www.cwu.org/vmreps/
Ignitionnet
21-02-2009, 22:53
This would sort most things, nom nom..
http://www.aurora.com/solutions/architectures.html
http://www.aurora.com/solutions/images/FiberTopologies_1240x730.JPG
http://www.cablefax.com/ct/deployment/casestudies/Case-Study-Fiber-Deep-5-Years-Later_31825.html
symptom of 12 point checks
http://www.cwu.org/vmreps/
I don't disagree with you, but i know there are alot of Sevice tech's who do not play ball at all and bring down the rest. Ive seen the work seen the attitude, had the referalls felt the attitude and have come to the conclusion if your not going to help yourself then your on your own.
If you want to have an open debate on that i suggest you create another thread so it can be discussed on an open forum for all to see. By the way that syptom is a way of getting the jobs done properly to tackle the cause. The issue of how many jobs per day each tech has been doing, has been around since day 1 of Cable in Britain. It as far as im concerned this came about from the early days of just jumpimg from job-job when the analogue only system was first built. This was due to the lack of training lack of understanding lack of knowledge for a new industry as far as Britain was concerned, so as far as management are concerned the amount of jobs each Tech does per day is the norm because its always been that way. It needs a total rethink and attitude adjustment before that will or should or won't happen!!
Anyway back to helping the OP BEFORE THIS TAKES OVER THE THREAD.
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