When 20Mb isn't...

[MrJDGaF]

I looked at my modem status page today and saw that the up/download config speeds are worked out with a mixture of decimal and binary.

Instead of multiplying 1024*1024=1,048,576=1Mb they use 1024*1000=1,024,000=1Mb, so 10Mb=10,240,000, 20Mb=20,480,000 and 50Mb=51,200,000 instead of 10,485,760=10Mb, 20,971,520=20Mb and 52,428,800=50Mb.

So I phoned VM, and got put through to broadband support who told me they have an agreement with OFCOM that allows them to do this.

So I phoned OFCOM and I was told that no such agreement exists.

So I phoned VM bs(apt abbreviation!) again and this time got cut off mid-call!

So I phoned again and was told that I pay for 20Mb per second and that is what I get, I said I pay for the advertised "up to" 20Mb which is 20,971,520 bits per second and could never get that because the config is set to nearer 19.5Mbps, so the he hangs up on me whilst I was mid-sentence. I know it was deliberate 'cos he said bye!

So I phoned OFCOM back and got through to a very unhelpful lady who told me the don't deal with individual customer complaints only "trends". I tried to explain that as this affects all VM broadband customers it must constitute a trend to which she replied that they only have my word for it!

I said "Check with VM then" and was told they can't!

So I appeal to you all to phone OFCOM and complain so that they finally take notice(maybe!)

It might not be a big deal for some, but I feel that with all the traffic management we put up with the least they can do is configure the modems correctly!

Failing that they should advertise the "10Mb" as up to nearly 10Mb, "20Mb" as up to just over 19.5Mb and the "50Mb" as up to just under 49Mb!

If you object to false advertising and being taken for an idiot then COMPLAIN!

[Stabhappy]

It's not false advertising. I suggest looking up 'megabit' and 'mebibit', although notoriously interchangable, megabit is 1,000,000 bits per second, not 1,048,576.

[Ernie_C]

Oh dear, don't even know what a megabit is and then complaining to Virgin Media.

I presume that you have already phoned to apologise for wasting both their time and that of OFCOM.

PS Given that Virgin Media use 1000 x 1024, are you not actually getting MORE than 20Mb/s on XL?

[Stabhappy]

Yes, technically virgin is giving us -more- than they legally have to.

[broadbandking]

As I am aware the 50Mb config file is set to 53Mb so VM are allowing for overheads

[dev]

As I am aware the 50Mb config file is set to 53Mb so VM are allowing for overheads

do they even *have* to?

[Paul]

Is this a wind up ?

I think i'll just about manage to still sleep at night :)

[broadbandking]

Is this a wind up ?

I think i'll just about manage to still sleep at night :)

Are you sure you might get 1/2Mb stole off you from the VM bandwidth robber

---------- Post added at 22:06 ---------- Previous post was at 22:05 ----------

do they even *have* to?

Nope as there speeds are upto

[graf_von_anonym]

This is an artifact of sizing conventions. You may find this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megabit)article informative. It is a function of historical entities like baud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baud) and bit rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_bit_rate#Gross_bit_rate_and_net_bit_rate_at_ the_physical_layer) and the general difficulties one has explaining an entity as complex as 'bandwidth' with a term as simple as 'speed'.

As an experiment, please consider your current velocity.

[Link83]

I have been looking into this aswell (although im not interested in complaining like the OP, im just curious) and it seems to get very confusing with megabytes, megabits, mebibytes and mebibits.

Is Virgin Media's internet speed actually in Mebibits per second (Mb/s) not Megabits (Mb) (which they always seem to advertise it as) as this would actually give us better speeds using the binary value.

...Or is it as the OP said - a mixture of binary and decimal so neither Mebibits or Megabits? In which case its just a 'made up' value beween decimal and binary?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_rate_units#Mebibit_per_second

Also why does a 2Mb connection have a download speed of 256kb/s? surely if its 2Mb it should be '2Mb per second', which is 2000kb/s (Or if it is '2Mib per second' then its or 2048kib/s?) or is 256kb/s my upload speed?

To make matters even more confusing I have a 2Mb connection with an Ambit 256 modem which says its set to have a 'Maximum Downstream Data Rate' of '2148000' - so whats that about?!

If someone could explain it all that would be great :)

[AbyssUnderground]

To make matters even more confusing I have a 2Mb connection with an Ambit 256 modem which says its set to have a 'Maximum Downstream Data Rate' of '2148000' - so whats that about?!

Thats the speed in bits per second.


Funny thing is I always thought Mbps (MegaBits Per Second) was always 1024 not 1000... Seems we learn something every day.

Who made this whole thing so complicated anyway? Either keep things 1000 or keep them 1024, don't confuse things by making two different standards!!!

[Link83]

Ah I see, thanks :)

The difference with digital and binary values occured many years ago when it didnt really matter so much. Computer experts called 1024 bytes a 'kilobyte' because it was 'near' a decimal 1000. This was fine back then as it hardly made any difference (and the term was only used amongst experts who knew what it meant) but nowadays the general public has also adopted the term without fully understanding what it meant to begin with, wrongly assuming that 'kilo' in computer terms still means 1000. Plus we deal with much larger numbers, and the higher you go the more pronounced the difference becomes :rolleyes:

Whats really got me puzzled is that my 2Mb service is 2148000 bits per second which is very close to being 2 Mebibits per second (In fact I think its a little over, perhaps VM rounded it up?) Yet when you go to the 10Mb and 20Mb config files it is actually lower than the binary figure but higher than the decimal figure?!
Config Files Downstream Data Rates:-
2Mb = 2148000
4Mb = 4096000
10Mb = 10240000
20Mb = 20480000
50Mb = ?
(Please let me know if any of these figures are wrong)

Does that make any sense :confused:

[graf_von_anonym]

At some point you might be interested in looking up the origins of the metre. Measurements are at best arbitrary. I mean, yes, Mb can lead to some confusion, but it's a bit easier to grasp than dBmV.

[leexgx]

if you can do 2.4MB/s for the most part on an download your getting full speed (20mb)

you get 2(250KB/s) (not offered any more) 10(1.2MB/s), 20(2.4MB/s) or 50 (5.9MB/s) (number shown in MB are likey to be lower when what i am worked out)

the pipe you get from the network is full speed you do not get slower speed for been far away as most of the time the far part is at most 100-200m away not 2KM from local extrange, VM does get slowed down if you download flat out at the STM times or just simply the web site can not give full download as lots of users may be on that web site as well

speed test web sites do not take into account overhead as well id hang up(well not really i explaine, it most of the VM tech support are reading off an computer screen some know what they are doing, apart from the 50mb support thay are uk at this time) if i was complaining about 100KB of bandwidth as thats all your talking about out of more then 2500KB, i not really interested in the mb my self but thats how providers show it all programs apart form real player (who uses that anyway) all other programs report in KB and MB some users do not get it tho and some Move when thay see 1.1MB/s then goto bt with an 2mb connection and think 256KB is faster then 1.1MB most users do not get that they are just looking at what number is bigger (one customer was going to switch as they did not understand MB/KB to the mb ISP slandered)

ringing ofcom was pointless as from below
to point out as well VM do state Up to 20mb bb (always have as far as i know) on there web site at no point do they say we give 100% 20mb all the time as they cant say that due to the way the Internet works,
with BT they was doing the same thing but prob was they really did not point out that on avg most BT lines could only get 4MB/s avg not 8mb but most providers now tell you before joining up what speeds you are expected to get and the web sites norm explane some ware on the web site