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View Full Version : What ever happened to Freedom of Choice?


Watching You
03-02-2009, 13:38
Last weekend the wife and I went along to visit a Barratt’s show home (http://www.barratthomes-dalstonsquare.co.uk/microsite), in Dalston, London E8 just up the road from us. My wife is kind of nosey like that, but out of curiosity (some could also say being nosey) I went along too.

So OK it’s not the best time, in an economic down turn, to be looking at buying property, unless of course you are cash rich, but with prices starting off at £250K for a one bedroom you would certainly except something decent for your money. However, what surprised me was the fact that when I enquired about internet access, thinking it was built to be future proofed, since the area is cabled up I was told that no you can’t get Virgin Media, no you can only get BT or Sky – err, excuse me.

What tosh /nonsense/ or some of Gordon Ramsey’s colourful expletives popped into my head upon hearing this. To think you spend all that money on property and now your house builder dictates what media/internet service provided you can have? What next dictating whether you can have red or white wine in your fridge.

I think Barratts is still stuck in the dark ages if they obviously don’t understand the growing importance of communications technology. If that wasn’t bad enough in the show home they had bodged the shower enclosure, with a only one extractor point and a gap at the top of the door, which means the mirrors mist up ever time you take a shower. I would opt for two myself.

Has anybody else had a similar experience, of lack of media/ internet choice with Barratts Homes around the country? They are acting like a Cowboy builder.

Chris
03-02-2009, 13:43
Are the neighbouring streets to this new development cabled up already? This might be a case of Barratt not having the forethought to provide ducting for cable, or it might be that that part of town isn't serviced anyway.

Remember, just because your own street is cabled, doesn't mean that even the next one along is.

I agree with you regarding build quality of Barratt homes, however to be fair isn't that simply the market sector they're in? Cheap and cheerful, your Barratt Starter Home.

nomadking
03-02-2009, 13:54
Even if the street is cabled up, the individual property still has to be connected. Is that the problem?

Tech_Boy
03-02-2009, 13:59
I have heard from a builder that a certain company will pay builders to not have VM (was NTL when I was told this) infrastructure installed as they are bulding an estate, if the estate is in a serviceable area.

Chris
03-02-2009, 14:05
There are similar rumours, that a certain company will give inducements to independent satellite installers not to offer Freesat installations.

Watching You
03-02-2009, 15:43
Chris: Are the neighbouring streets to this new development cabled up already?

To answer your question, yes the streets are cabled up – in fact (History Lesson: ) I live in the part of London that had the original radios cabled up direct from BBC House, until wireless radios came about which made these cables redundant. Then Cable London in the 1980s decided to use these redundant cabled tubes/ tunnels in the streets to connect media services to every household, which then became NTL and now Virgin. Now not many people know that, so the area has been ready for many years.

But my point is you would think as a house builder any designers, worth his salt, would build something that is future proof after all who knows what we will get in 50 years from now – light emitting walls/ wireless electrical services/ window that act as display screens??

Considering that the Burj Al Arab (http://www.jumeirah.com/en/Hotels-and-Resorts/Destinations/Dubai/Burj-Al-Arab/)built in 1994 was designed to be future proof with each room has the equivalent of two V+ boxes in each room so you can start and stop, rewind two different films in the bedroom and living room, etc. However, this was designed to be ready to incorporate whatever technology could be thrown at it in the next 50 year. I find it odd that Barratts, in property being built from 2007 has gone down the conservative route – unless of course they don’t expect their houses to last for 50 years. :scratch:

Chris
03-02-2009, 16:04
To be fair, comparing a mega-luxury exclusive hotel/serviced apartment development with a bog-standard Barratt house is hardly comparing eggs with eggs.

The issue here, I'm sure, is cost. They aren't going to spend money where they think they can avoid it. Jumeirah Group, on the other hand, have to spend it by the bucket, otherwise their clientele will go elsewhere.

LondonRoad
03-02-2009, 16:50
To be fair, comparing a mega-luxury exclusive hotel/serviced apartment development with a bog-standard Barratt house is hardly comparing eggs with eggs.

The issue here, I'm sure, is cost. They aren't going to spend money where they think they can avoid it. Jumeirah Group, on the other hand, have to spend it by the bucket, otherwise their clientele will go elsewhere.

It wouldn't cost Barrat anything though. I live in a newish (3 years old) estate and all the cabling work was done by Telewest and their contractors when the Road was up. It makes business sense for VM to do this if the facility is offered to them, as there is no road digging. You're talking about cable pullers and cost of cabinets, equipments etc. A fair return on that from our estate already and I'm sure that would be the case in most estates.

Noggo
03-02-2009, 16:54
Well it comes down to the fact that BT is prepared to cable up new developments. Whether or not VM where given an option to put in the services I don't know.

A mate of mine, who moved into a new estate in Kidderminster on Tutors Way a few years back, had no option but to change all service from VM to SKY because of the fact there was no VM cabling put down the new road when the estate was created. The VM cable is less than 20m away, the same distance away as BT.

MovedGoalPosts
03-02-2009, 17:00
BT I suspect don't have a choice. I beleive they are considered a statutory supplier so have to be able to provide services to any property. VM on the other hand, like Sky, don't have to be considered, but it would be a poor developer who doesn't provide an option for at least one of them.

Chris
03-02-2009, 17:13
BT does indeed have no choice. It's called a Universal Service Obligation.

LondonRoad
03-02-2009, 17:15
BT I suspect don't have a choice. I beleive they are considered a statutory supplier so have to be able to provide services to any property. VM on the other hand, like Sky, don't have to be considered, but it would be a poor developer who doesn't provide an option for at least one of them.

Poor developer and Barratt Homes in the one thread..... surely you're not suggesting :shocked: ;)

KingDaveRa
03-02-2009, 18:03
I bet they don't give a toss. They whack up the houses, and hope people won't ask. As long as they get your money (well, the bank's), they aren't fussed.

Stupid really, but it's a cost that - to them - is probably not seen as a necessity.

jungleguy
04-02-2009, 01:02
I think I should point out that BT pay a developer to put services in, VM current policy is that if a developer wants a new build cabled, then the developer will have to pay VM for that privilege. So most of the time developers decline VM on the basis of cost.

Its complete nonsense on the part of VM. I've come across developments that could have been cabled, all the developer wanted a contribution of £30 per plot and VM to supply the kit (green plastic ducting), but was declined due to VM policy and process (the company will happily waste budget giving £50 discounts if you 'order online').

I've also got to be really critical of telesales. I've also dealt with a couple of developments where the developer contacted telesales wanting the site cabled and prepared to pay, only to be told the area is non cable, heard that before. Which again was complete nonsense. But hey if telesales cant book you on, they just want you off the phone.

Also the majority of new build involve some form of extensive block paving, which will maroon a development from the VM network. Rendering a site non serve. And no we cant pull cables through BT duct, before you ask.

Welshchris
06-02-2009, 01:36
Hale Homes have reciently put up new flats in my area for the housing association i am with and i was offered one before i moved to where i am now. Even tho the road has VM, the flats we were told couldnt have VM installed because a communal Satallite Dish was being provided by the Housing Association.

NO ONE
07-02-2009, 01:49
Last weekend the wife and I went along to visit a Barratt’s show home (http://www.barratthomes-dalstonsquare.co.uk/microsite), in Dalston, London E8 just up the road from us. My wife is kind of nosey like that, but out of curiosity (some could also say being nosey) I went along too.

So OK it’s not the best time, in an economic down turn, to be looking at buying property, unless of course you are cash rich, but with prices starting off at £250K for a one bedroom you would certainly except something decent for your money. However, what surprised me was the fact that when I enquired about internet access, thinking it was built to be future proofed, since the area is cabled up I was told that no you can’t get Virgin Media, no you can only get BT or Sky – err, excuse me.

What tosh /nonsense/ or some of Gordon Ramsey’s colourful expletives popped into my head upon hearing this. To think you spend all that money on property and now your house builder dictates what media/internet service provided you can have? What next dictating whether you can have red or white wine in your fridge.

I think Barratts is still stuck in the dark ages if they obviously don’t understand the growing importance of communications technology. If that wasn’t bad enough in the show home they had bodged the shower enclosure, with a only one extractor point and a gap at the top of the door, which means the mirrors mist up ever time you take a shower. I would opt for two myself.

Has anybody else had a similar experience, of lack of media/ internet choice with Barratts Homes around the country? They are acting like a Cowboy builder. i word say you More Chioce Wethe Bt And Sky then Withe V m

Kellargh
14-02-2009, 20:40
I live in a Hale Homes cul-de-sac and we never had the cabling put down either - even though the houses on the street directly behind me can get it. In fact, my neighbours (about 4-5 houses up the road from me) can get it. I think it is disgusting, but I don't blame the builders, I blame VM. All VM think about it upgrading their services, not expanding their customer base. I'm stuck with speeds under 2mb with BT, and it is seriously infuriating knowing that my neighbour sits there happily with 20mb.

ShadowTD
27-02-2009, 12:17
And here we have the issue with lack of regulation. The gawd damn gummint should be encouraging VM to expand their network as much as possible. Equally, VM should be looking for as many quick wins as possible. People moving into a new housing estate will be looking for services enabled as easily as possible. It's galling to think VM are throwing away a captive audience who are probably really interested in triple play. In fact, why not get involved with the house builders and get cable points put in the property?

aclivity
27-02-2009, 14:57
I live in a Hale Homes cul-de-sac and we never had the cabling put down either - even though the houses on the street directly behind me can get it. In fact, my neighbours (about 4-5 houses up the road from me) can get it. I think it is disgusting, but I don't blame the builders, I blame VM. All VM think about it upgrading their services, not expanding their customer base. I'm stuck with speeds under 2mb with BT, and it is seriously infuriating knowing that my neighbour sits there happily with 20mb.

not really very fair - the housebuilders could easily lay ducting during the builds, but they see it as just another way to claw back the money from their investment in building in the first place, so they charge mahoosive amounts of money for it. Virgin Media (well, Telewest as was) have done this in the past and have had something like a 92% - 95% take up of services when new build estates were pre cabled.

If the builders didn't whack their costs up so high, it would almost be standard to move into a house with BT and Cable access points available - they could also install the ugly woks somewhere out of sight of the road on the roof, perhaps, during build for less cost than installing afterwards. Housebuilders could also lay in enough power points, but they don't, as it costs them.

It's not VM who are to blame in this scenario.