View Full Version : 50mb problem
Hi,
It appears to me that Virgin are traffic shaping or application throttling my 50mb connection in some way!
I can download from my usenet provider at 50 mb for only 4-5 minutes at a time and then it drops to 5mb and will stay at 5mb permanently until I re-connect my servers, then its instantly back to 50 for another 4-5 mins.
The strange thing is when it drops to 5mb I can run a speed test and get 43 mb whilst still downloading, this is why I think it is application throttling as opposed to traffic shaping.
So far I have tried the following things to fix it:
1. Gone direct from modem to pc to rule router out.
2. Ran PC in safe mode with networking (Tech support suggestion)
3. Tried 3 different usenet progs, Newsleecher, Sabnzbd, Altbinz.
4. Tried 2 different usenet providers, newsgroupdirect and ngroups and different number of open connections 8 - 20.
5. Tried SSL connection on ports 80 and 563 and non SSL connections on 119 and 443.
6. Tried 3 different computers!
I am now at a loss and need to sort this out asap because if they are application throttling me I want my bloody money back!
I have attached a screen grab of newsleechers graphic which shows the problem quite clearly.
If anyone can shed any light on this I would really appreciate it,
Cheers,
John.
Ignitionnet
24-01-2009, 12:42
jbrad, where in the country are you please? You're probably going to say Bradford but... :)
I'll make some enquiries but yes, from the screenshot you have posted it does look very much like application level shaping. Speedtests not being affected, it being a very flat curve, etc...
I did have another question but checked it out myself, Newsgroupsdirect is a resold Highwinds service, while ngroups do not use Highwinds - eliminating the odds of it being provider side.
Hi Broadbandings,
Thanks for the speedy response and yes I am in Bradford :)
What a rip off all that download no decent upload and you cant do anything with it my god they get worse dont they :(.
What a rip off all that download no decent upload and you cant do anything with it my god they get worse dont they :(.
yea because newsgroups are the only thing the internet is for :rolleyes:
Ignitionnet
24-01-2009, 14:17
Hi Broadbandings,
Thanks for the speedy response and yes I am in Bradford :)
Well you might be getting throttled, Bradford was as i remember a trial area for daytime STM.
I will repeat might - could you do me a favour and please give me the first 3 digits of your IP address? You'll get it from Connection button here, please PM it to me. I may be able to ascertain if there's a device on the network somewhere that one wouldn't expect to be there.
This is not in any way personally identifiable information.
---------- Post added at 14:08 ---------- Previous post was at 14:06 ----------
yea because newsgroups are the only thing the internet is for :rolleyes:
It's not specifically that it's the precedent it sets, if it is throttling then selling the service as 'The Mother of all Broadband' and charging that price, throttling apps leaves a bad taste.
Plus it certainly wouldn't stop at newsgroups, and IMHO there is no excuse for throttling downstream on cable at all, especially not on a brand new platform that should have ample bandwidth.
Can I just take a moment to curse Fatec who commented on trials of throttling of Usenet to 5Mbit/s months ago. Smartarse.
---------- Post added at 14:17 ---------- Previous post was at 14:08 ----------
John,
Could you do something else as well please?
Download something massive from the VM FTP server please.
ftp://ftp.virginmedia.com/mirrors/debian-cd/4.0_r6/i386/iso-dvd/debian-40r6-i386-DVD-1.iso
Would be great. I want to see if it gets shaped down as well, see if this really is application shaping or if it's flow based shaping and after 5 minutes the speed drops.
Cheers.
EDIT: Use http://www.softpedia.com/get/Network-Tools/Bandwidth-Tools/NetMeter.shtml if you don't already have it, should give a similar picture to that which you are getting from Newsleecher, and in cases like this a picture paints a thousand words.
yea because newsgroups are the only thing the internet is for :rolleyes:
Lol i jumped off the heavy downloading barrier long ago when trying to download the internet on 2mb :P.
In the USA comcast tried this rubbish on torrents untill the fcc came around and banned the practice and fined Comcast and they soon stopped, who is going to slap any isp in this country Ofcom, ICO? lol they couldnt slap themselves.
Heres a qoute from vm last july "Our policy does not discriminate internet traffic by application and we have no plans to do so," roll ahead a few months to december and you get this Asked why the firm would ditch its system of choosing who to throttle based on their total usage, in favour of singling out BitTorrent, Berkett said: "I think it's an issue of fairness" except he didnt mention that another month down the line its true intentions would be clear the dpi kit in place will monitor multiple applications so bang bang to torrents, newsgroups, ftp, http and anything else that has a ssl mask just in case.
Of course you can get your application to run faster probably by signing some agreement (i.e cash) with virgin to get your application removed from such a app throttle which will get piped faster.
So where will this leave the "mother of all broadband"? probably the same place with a lot less customers once they really see that vm and a lot of other isp's revoke net neutrality to save bandwith and monetirise the customers data then it becomes "the mother (add your own insult here) of all broadband".
What will be left is customers paying xx amount of money for a connection promising to download when it gets throttled to much less than half of what your paying for if it uses any of the applications vm's DPI hate list uses, gamers will still suffer with the never ending packet loss which is and has been provided daily by the scummy dpi, all your left with is something that can still be done fairly well on dial-up :P.
hokkers999
24-01-2009, 14:52
yea because newsgroups are the only thing the internet is for :rolleyes:
It's one of the few bits of it you need 50megs for. When viewing a web page, it takes longer to render and display it than it does to d/l it.
I've pm'd you my ip Broadbandings.
Had a go at the ftp file but it would only give me 1.3 - 1.7 meg download for some reason.
Netmeter picture attached, seems to be spiking between 4.8 - 7.3 when running fast.
The very low dips are where it dropped to 5mb, actually less this time, noticed it fluctuating around 2.3mb.
The mountainous area of the graph is where my son was playing cbeebies on the laptop!
Thanks again,
John.
Ignitionnet
24-01-2009, 17:14
Thanks for the info, I need to check a few things, I'll get back to you.
funchords
25-01-2009, 01:02
I can download from my usenet provider at 50 mb for only 4-5 minutes at a time and then it drops to 5mb and will stay at 5mb permanently until I re-connect my servers, then its instantly back to 50 for another 4-5 mins.
Hi John,
If I'm reading your chart, you're being throttled at 20 Mbps from the beginning and then you're getting about 4 Mbps after 4.5 minutes. Was that just a function of this test?
Your usenet server probably does allocate bandwidth on a per-connection basis, but it certainly wouldn't do so on an "after 4.5 minute" basis -- so this is your ISP (likely based on my US-centric experience) or a transit provider (unlikely).
Based on your message, I think it's likely that the most popular newsgroup vendors have been identified by IP since no amount of encryption or port changes that you have tried have had any effect.
Robb Topolski
added: the second graphic seems to show a 35+ Mbps potential
broadbandking
25-01-2009, 07:56
I doubt its appilcation throttling as the speed would go up and down like that plus broadbandings didnt fatec say throttled down to 512Kb/s not 5Mb/s
Ignitionnet
25-01-2009, 09:34
I doubt its appilcation throttling as the speed would go up and down like that plus broadbandings didnt fatec say throttled down to 512Kb/s not 5Mb/s
No the speed wouldn't have to go up and down, it'd only go up and down if there were not enough bandwidth there to supply the maximum shaped profile.
There's a lot of ways all of this can be policed, one of them is to give a % of bandwidth and aggregate users together to share it, another is to just set a fixed limit.
Not sure what he said but maybe he meant 512kB/s :)
I have asked Virgin directly via the newsgroup vm.feedback, I'll report their response. If they decline to answer it is possible to identify if there is a device there as it has a couple of software bugs which make it findable.
---------- Post added at 09:26 ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 ----------
Hi John,
If I'm reading your chart, you're being throttled at 20 Mbps from the beginning and then you're getting about 4 Mbps after 4.5 minutes. Was that just a function of this test?
Your usenet server probably does allocate bandwidth on a per-connection basis, but it certainly wouldn't do so on an "after 4.5 minute" basis -- so this is your ISP (likely based on my US-centric experience) or a transit provider (unlikely).
Based on your message, I think it's likely that the most popular newsgroup vendors have been identified by IP since no amount of encryption or port changes that you have tried have had any effect.
Robb Topolski
added: the second graphic seems to show a 35+ Mbps potential
Hi Robb,
Thanks so much for posting here, appreciate your feedback.
Just to clarify, this is a 50Mbit DOCSIS 3 product. It appears that after 4 - 5 minutes the flow goes down to approximately 5Mbit.
I have tried to arrange a test using FTP however Virgin Media's own FTP amusingly can't saturate the connection.
2 different Usenet services using 2 distinct providers (not VNNTP of the same service provider) and transits have been tried by the OP, 2 different clients have been tried, this has been tested with and without router present.
My next step in the testing is to find a very fast non-NNTP source for OP to try to establish if, as I suspect, this is a protocol agnostic flow based throttle. This could likely be done via either an FTP mirror or via a very well seeded torrent.
---------- Post added at 09:34 ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 ----------
John,
Your mission, should you choose to accept it ;)
Go to this wonderful site: ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/Linux/distributions/debian-cd/4.0_r6/i386/iso-dvd/
Or you could try at Virgin's FTP if it's behaving today: ftp://ftp.virginmedia.com/mirrors/debian-cd/4.0_r6/i386/iso-dvd/
And download all 4 of the big files at once:
debian-40r6-i386-DVD-1.iso 4.0 GB 19/12/2008 16:56:00
debian-40r6-i386-DVD-2.iso 4.0 GB 19/12/2008 16:58:00
debian-40r6-i386-DVD-3.iso 4.0 GB 19/12/2008 17:02:00
debian-update-4.0r6-i386-DVD-1.iso 2.6 GB 22/12/2008 18:18:00
Should keep your connection busy for a little while, see if the issue persists with FTP.
I am a bit surprised at how little attention this thread has received. STM got loads of posts, a change in AUP of ntl's to a possible transfer limit got loads of posts, just the suggestion of Phorm, well, no comment, however some quite damnit evidence of VM testing throttling / shaping on the new 50Mbit service has had a quite muted response so far.
During downloads using private gbit ftp sources i have now had 2 different hosts (1 .fr gbit & 1 .nl gbit) speeds stop after approx 5gb of transfer each at seperate intervals. The file transfers just timeout thereafter continuously.
I changed the server ports at my end and that seemed to get the downloads going again for a while, but now there both back to connection timeouts heh.
These are both via fxp to a home ftpserver atm, im just waiting for my ip to be added to the 2 hosts and ill test via direct connection. <-- Direct connect fixed the timeouts 10gb downloaded and still going strong :)
Seems strange though.
I never bothered with news groups they always seemed to have missing files which got rather anoying for me.
Ignitionnet
25-01-2009, 12:28
John,
The VM Newsgroup staff are not aware of any throttling trials and inform that there are none.
Could you please post on the newsgroup virginmedia.support.broadband.cable on server news.virginmedia.com so that they can assist you they request.
Thanks.
Right I attempted to download the large iso's and although it didnt max my connection it never dropped to a flat 5mbit , see 'ISO ftp download.jpg'
Tried usenet again and it seems to get a solid 50Mbit for a while then fluctuate and finally settle down to a paltry 238 KB/s ! It will stay at this low level until I reconnect my servers.
You can see this on piccys 'usenet 1' and 'usenet 2'
The spike back upto 43Mbit on the 'usenet 2' picture is a http speedtest I performed.
Thanks again for all your help,
Cheers,
John.
cook1984
25-01-2009, 19:54
I'd call tech support and log it as a fault. Point out that you expect compensation until the fault is resolved.
Tech support will try their best to fob you off, blaming your usenet provider, your PC, your router, cosmic rays etc but it sounds like you have checked most of that so be firm with them. If they are just script monkeys ask to speak to someone higher up.
I certainly wouldn't pay for "unlimited" 50 meg with "no STM" and put up with that kind of service.
alistairgd
25-01-2009, 21:34
I certainly wouldn't pay for "unlimited" 50 meg with "no STM" and put up with that kind of service.
I'm a bit bemused as to why anyone would pay for the 50Mbit service, VM have openly said that it will be STMd and shaped after the rollout is complete. The faster the speed, the quicker folks will be STMd.
cook1984
25-01-2009, 23:27
I'm a bit bemused as to why anyone would pay for the 50Mbit service, VM have openly said that it will be STMd and shaped after the rollout is complete. The faster the speed, the quicker folks will be STMd.
As far as I am aware VM have been telling people that the 50 meg service has no traffic shaping when they call up.
They also advertise it as being able to download a HD movie in under an hour, but that would clearly be impossible with STM. It's a bit like saying you can have "unlimited free minutes" on your mobile phone, but can only use them at 2AM.
Big big difference if its application throttling compared to stm and shaping though if it is that.
Just tried on Giga News to try to see if I am being shaped, and it's not. Although not at 50mb (it's about 25mb - probably didn't optimise it properly) it's been consistant and the 25 mark, so maybe they are trialing it out in one or two areas?
alistairgd
26-01-2009, 10:14
As far as I am aware VM have been telling people that the 50 meg service has no traffic shaping when they call up.
Strictly speaking that would be true, but not for long, and if the salesman did not make that clear, tsk tsk.
Berkett said that to begin with the "premium" 50Mbit/s service will not be traffic managed. Virgin Media throttles the bandwidth available to heavy users on its other broadband packages at peak times. Berkett added that restrictions will be introduced around the same time the rollout is complete, however.
Ignitionnet
26-01-2009, 10:34
The above said, STM was trialled for a while prior to being rolled out as well, and I would fully imagine that 'the restrictions' will be trialled on live network and live customers at some point.
Noo thay cant do that vm dont test on live customers to see such stuff ;) it's confined to internal labs just like other *cough* trials ;).
Sir John Luke
26-01-2009, 19:18
Noo thay cant do that vm dont test on live customers to see such stuff ;) it's confined to internal labs just like other *cough* trials ;).
...which, of course, were admitted to by all ISPs involved ...not
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r17671786-Re-FiOS-Transparent-Proxying
However, this is getting :notopic:
if its consistantly dropping to the low 5Mbit/s when doing some usenet actions, perhaps it might be interesting to see a wireshark dump of just before and after the drop....and have someone disect this wireshark log in the open here.
such a live log might be good to enlighten all readers and perhaps later,force VM executives to be far more open and informed in what they can and cant do legally under current UK consumer law..., being STM'ed/DPI'ed down to a 10th of your contracted speed after a few minutes is no fair use by any county courts standards id think, perhaps you might consider that small claims option if they dont sort it out PDQ!.
however whats the exact wireshark command line they might use to gather the right information we are interested in ?
doing a full raw dump for only a few minutes can create a MASSIVE amount of data if you dont filter out the parts thats not required to enlighten devs interested in this DS3 50Mbit/s VM jigery pokey used to reading wireshark logs.....
http://search.virginmedia.com/results/?channel=homepage&vml=ntl&vmt=t9&q=wireshark+cli+usenet+command+line&cr=
xero01uk
26-01-2009, 19:42
hey guys, ive seen Tailz say he optimized his 50mb.... how did you/he do that?
Ignitionnet
26-01-2009, 19:52
if its consistantly dropping to the low 5Mbit/s when doing some usenet actions, perhaps it might be interesting to see a wireshark dump of just before and after the drop....and have someone disect this wireshark log in the open here.
such a live log might be good to enlighten all readers and perhaps later,force VM executives to be far more open and informed in what they can and cant do legally under current UK consumer law..., being STM'ed/DPI'ed down to a 10th of your contracted speed after a few minutes is no fair use by any county courts standards id think, perhaps you might consider that small claims option if they dont sort it out PDQ!.
however whats the exact wireshark command line they might use to gather the right information we are interested in ?
doing a full raw dump for only a few minutes can create a MASSIVE amount of data if you dont filter out the parts thats not required to enlighten devs interested in this DS3 50Mbit/s VM jigery pokey used to reading wireshark logs.....
http://search.virginmedia.com/results/?channel=homepage&vml=ntl&vmt=t9&q=wireshark+cli+usenet+command+line&cr=
A wireshark log would indeed be large, but it would only need to be of a small extract while throttled and I can filter it down easily enough and can detect Allot presence if it's there.
Popper, check PM.
hey guys, ive seen Tailz say he optimized his 50mb.... how did you/he do that?
its big M little b, mb=mibibit, Mb=MegaBit
heres a search you might select some options from to start you on your Optimisation learning curve, understand the options BEFORE YOU change anything OC, and know how to revert back incase of your errors....
http://search.virginmedia.com/results/?q=tcp%20ip%20optimizations%20cable
xero01uk
26-01-2009, 19:57
its big M little b, mb=mibibit, Mb=MegaBit
heres a serarch you might select some options from to start you on your Optimisation learning curve, understand the options BEFORE YOU change anything OC, and know how to revert back incase of your errors....
http://search.virginmedia.com/results/?q=tcp%20ip%20optimizations%20cable
hey popper, i got that tcp opti program downloaded and default is 3000Kbps, is that? for 50mb?
A wireshark log would indeed be large, but it would only need to be of a small extract while throttled and I can filter it down easily enough and can detect Allot presence if it's there.
Popper, check PM.
indeed, a live wireshark log from the OP would be very interesting perhaps :angel:
http://www.wireshark.org/docs/wsug_html_chunked/ChBuildInstallWinInstall.html
gives you the windows version of the app and its required support apps for windows auto install, so what does the OP and any other readers that have the 50Mbit package and suspect their connection being DPI'ed after 5 minutes need to do to keep the required information and dump it to a file while they run the usenet clients etc!
then start the wireshark capture just before the massive slowdown comes into effect.... a little practice and a step by step will be required, but if its kicking in at around 5 minutes Usenet use, then it should be reasonably easy to keep the log size down for you to then parse it later.....
jbRAD said:"I can download from my usenet provider at 50 mb for only 4-5 minutes at a time and then it drops to 5mb and will stay at 5mb permanently until I re-connect my servers, then its instantly back to 50 for another 4-5 mins.
"
what is pastebin's limit or perhaps another file uploader site might be better if a little harder to point to and pull the effected lines out of.
http://pastebin.com/
---------- Post added at 20:44 ---------- Previous post was at 20:19 ----------
hey popper, i got that tcp opti program downloaded and default is 3000Kbps, is that? for 50mb?
i dont know the app but people seem to prefer that SG TCP Optimizer for easy revertable use testing on windows.....
are you saying your also currently on the 50Mbit/s VM package ?, if so perhaps you might also take a wireshark log and have devs here look at it, even if your section isnt getting any activated STM/DPI yet, it might be good for comparing to the OPs log if they try and make one while their being usenet speed dropped....
funchords
26-01-2009, 20:45
Just limit the size of the capture to 100 bytes per packet and you'll erase 92% of the file size but still capture the useful info.
Although I don't know that we'll see anything here. Traffic Shaping is done by dropping packets more frequently from the shaped source than from other sources until the desired level is reached. Your wireshark capture won't ever see that dropped packet (since it's dropped in the middle of the network before reaching you).
You will send some duplicate acks -- and here's the thing, you'll send more duplicate acks on a shaped flow then you will on a non-shaped flow.
You may need to capture both sides and compare in order to prove anything. This is why we need full disclosure and bans on ISP interference with high enough penalties to dissuade -- discovering these rip-offs is extremely challenging.
id forgotten about the other end , but if anyone here has a serverside site or even another end user, Fatec for instance,with his FAST external french? connection etc, thats capable of near 50Mbit/s+ and can also run their wireshark at the same time, in unison with the VM 50Mbit users reading here, then we can have that live client/server WS to compare....
it just takes some little cooperation and willingness to try and get the data without relying on the internal VM personel putting their necks on the line...
Well I've reported a fault with my connection and they are putting it down to the low snr upstream issue.
I have no technical understanding at all about my connection, but surely if it was a fluctuating low snr then my usenet speed would fluctuate too?
In the first 2 days after install my connection was fine and did run flat out for a number of hours, then I got the 5Mb prob after 5mins, then the next day it went down to 2.3Mb after a short while and now its all over the place, currently at 120 - 500 kB/s!!
The one thing thats for sure is that it wont recover to 50Mb until I pause/resume my download or reconnect the server.
Also I can still get 40+Mbps speed tests from think broadband / Virgin / speedtest.net whilst my usenet is on its arse!
If there are any tests I can run then let me know but please make it as simple to understand as possible, ta.
AbyssUnderground
26-01-2009, 21:35
If anyone needs a server to get files off with a good connection to VM, let me know. I have a dedicated server in Roubaix (France) on a 100Mbps connection, so I can easily cater for at least 1 person testing. OVH peer with OVH through LINX (or are supposed to anyway) so it should be fairly consistent, it is for me (10Mbps day in day out). If you let me know I'll up a test file thats a few GB in size for you to use.
Ignitionnet
26-01-2009, 22:36
Test file not found Abyss.
AbyssUnderground
26-01-2009, 23:06
Test file not found Abyss.
My fault. For some reason the ftp account pointed to the wrong folder. It works now.
Ignitionnet
27-01-2009, 09:28
My fault. For some reason the ftp account pointed to the wrong folder. It works now.
Transfer also seems capped to 10Mbps and struggling to maintain that speed, any ideas?
Ignitionnet
27-01-2009, 12:45
The Allots are only used on the DSL service. As technical support
have stated, there are no traffic shaping technologies being trialled.
Alex
-- Alex Brown
Senior Product Manager
Internet Products, Virgin Media
There's the official answer - no!
Transfer also seems capped to 10Mbps and struggling to maintain that speed, any ideas?
Same here 1.12 MB/s (8.96 Mb/s) and stright afterwards a single file download from gamefilesVM is around 2.3 MB/s (18.4 Mb/s).
There's the official answer - no!
lol, for a minute there after reading this in email notification i thought Alex had finally done the right thing and started posting here at CF.
as he's been asked to do countless times, for the benefit of his VM users, as this MB is way easyer to access and reference for your average user than the antiquated usenet alex and VM insist on using exclusively...., antiquated ways for antiquated people and companies.....
he's due another invite,perhaps next time your over there you can once again invite him and the team over here to explain himself and the company line.....
usenet is fine for many uses even today, however for the Uks only major Cable company virgin Media to use it exclusively and not also include web based message boards such as CF were his customers hang out is wrong in todays market place...
I like his comment though "As technical support have stated, there are no traffic shaping technologies being trialled." dosent mention application shaping technologies though :S or are they classed as the same?.
My fault. For some reason the ftp account pointed to the wrong folder. It works now.
I get about 45mb, and no offence but OVH has some of the worst peering ever.
AbyssUnderground
27-01-2009, 14:42
I get about 45mb, and no offence but OVH has some of the worst peering ever.
Its not OVH's fault, its VM's. OVH peer with over 14 different providers including LINX at 20Gbps and AMSIX at 40Gbps. Often VM chooses to use a transit link (DTAG) rather than LINX so blame VM's routing.
Ignitionnet
27-01-2009, 15:00
Its not OVH's fault, its VM's. OVH peer with over 14 different providers including LINX at 20Gbps and AMSIX at 40Gbps. Often VM chooses to use a transit link (DTAG) rather than LINX so blame VM's routing.
Tracing route to abyssunderground.co.uk [91.121.17.201]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 3 ms 2 ms 1 ms air.setup [192.168.11.1]
2 12 ms 13 ms 10 ms 10.183.64.1
3 11 ms 10 ms 15 ms osr01mort-v11.network.virginmedia.net [62.30.60.1]
4 12 ms 10 ms 18 ms osr02croy-tenge73.network.virginmedia.net [62.30.242.57]
5 40 ms 25 ms 17 ms pop-bb-b-ge-210-0.network.virginmedia.net [195.182.178.86]
6 15 ms 26 ms 11 ms pop-bb-a-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.174.229]
7 * 20 ms 18 ms amst-ic-1-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.175.6]
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 202 ms 204 ms * 40g.rbx-2-6k.routers.ovh.net [91.121.131.9]
10 33 ms 34 ms 35 ms rbx-4-m1.routers.ovh.net [213.251.191.135]
11 38 ms 33 ms 33 ms roubaix.betaarchive.co.uk [91.121.17.201]
Are you sure it isn't more that OVH happily allow people to run torrent seed boxes on their network which hammers their network's bandwidth?
There are no capacity issues on the VM Amsterdam link - I can saturate full bandwidth via that link.
TaiLZ i assume you mean 45Mb Megabit/s ?
its unclear if Tailz has also tryed Usenet binary download and seen the same massive drop in thoughput, so indicating that his section of the VM DS3 may also be allot trialed today perhaps ?
clearly his 45Mb/s for ftp is within reasonable for the short time he used your private server abyss.
i wonder if you also have a (can put a private) usenet server on there and can put that test-file.bin (ftp://test-file.bin) on it and temp open that for them to try and test!, as so far thats the protocol that the OP was having the clear problem with, implying that IF VM 50Mbit DS3 allot is being trialed, that is the service and default port its looking at and processing....
Ignitionnet
27-01-2009, 15:57
usenet is fine for many uses even today, however for the Uks only major Cable company virgin Media to use it exclusively and not also include web based message boards such as CF were his customers hang out is wrong in todays market place...
VM also use Twitter and Alex posted recently on Digital Spy. Remember the 'history' of this forum dates back to nthellworld ;)
AbyssUnderground
27-01-2009, 16:04
Tracing route to abyssunderground.co.uk [91.121.17.201]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 3 ms 2 ms 1 ms air.setup [192.168.11.1]
2 12 ms 13 ms 10 ms 10.183.64.1
3 11 ms 10 ms 15 ms osr01mort-v11.network.virginmedia.net [62.30.60.1]
4 12 ms 10 ms 18 ms osr02croy-tenge73.network.virginmedia.net [62.30.242.57]
5 40 ms 25 ms 17 ms pop-bb-b-ge-210-0.network.virginmedia.net [195.182.178.86]
6 15 ms 26 ms 11 ms pop-bb-a-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.174.229]
7 * 20 ms 18 ms amst-ic-1-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.175.6]
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 202 ms 204 ms * 40g.rbx-2-6k.routers.ovh.net [91.121.131.9]
10 33 ms 34 ms 35 ms rbx-4-m1.routers.ovh.net [213.251.191.135]
11 38 ms 33 ms 33 ms roubaix.betaarchive.co.uk [91.121.17.201]
Are you sure it isn't more that OVH happily allow people to run torrent seed boxes on their network which hammers their network's bandwidth?
There are no capacity issues on the VM Amsterdam link - I can saturate full bandwidth via that link.
OVH don't allow torrents, its just impossible to determine the difference between legal and illegal torrents without using expensive DPI or having a team examine everything. If you are reported having illegal torrents running on your server they will investigate and issue a take down warning. If you don't comply, they shut off your server.
OVH have no saturated links, you can check that at http://weathermap.ovh.net. Each arrow represents 10Gbps.
RubberyDuck
27-01-2009, 16:21
I get around 5.40MB/s here at work, on a 100Mbit link. If that helps.
Though I did start at around 6.5MB/s for around 10 seconds.
broadbandbug
27-01-2009, 16:29
VM also use Twitter and Alex posted recently on Digital Spy. Remember the 'history' of this forum dates back to nthellworld ;)
Alex can be followed on twitter;)
Ignitionnet
27-01-2009, 16:32
Alex can be followed on twitter;)
This I am well aware of, however I prefer to take the occasional look. I do stalk VM on there however.
RE: OVH I'll be interested to see how that map changes - a couple of links are 85%+ and could be saturated and of the 4 x 10G links in Amsterdam 2 are running >70% as are both LINX connections and it's still a little way from peak util time.
TaiLZ i assume you mean 45Mb Megabit/s ?
its unclear if Tailz has also tryed Usenet binary download and seen the same massive drop in thoughput, so indicating that his section of the VM DS3 may also be allot trialed today perhaps ?
clearly his 45Mb/s for ftp is within reasonable for the short time he used your private server abyss.
i wonder if you also have a (can put a private) usenet server on there and can put that test-file.bin (ftp://test-file.bin) on it and temp open that for them to try and test!, as so far thats the protocol that the OP was having the clear problem with, implying that IF VM 50Mbit DS3 allot is being trialed, that is the service and default port its looking at and processing....
I've tried usenet, However I don't get 50mb, just about 25, but it's not being monitored as it was a stable 25 for about 20mins. So no, Usenet is not being capped in my area (I don't use Usenet anyway, I just got a free trial to test if it was being monitored and shaped).
As for HTTP Traffic, I am always getting 50mb on what I use, no matter what time of day so for me it's a good service so far. As for the test file, As above, I get 45mb service on that and it doesn't dip below that really.
Edit: Oh and also BitTorrent is not being shaped as thus yet.
AbyssUnderground
27-01-2009, 16:53
RE: OVH I'll be interested to see how that map changes - a couple of links are 85%+ and could be saturated and of the 4 x 10G links in Amsterdam 2 are running >70% as are both LINX connections and it's still a little way from peak util time.
Peak VS Non-peak is virtually unchanged on the larger links as data flow is quite consistent. Remember each one is 10Gbps, so it still has overall around 9Gbps free. Thats a lot of bandwidth... When they get too crowded, they will upgrade and add more links. They've been upgrading and adding to their European network for over a year now and they're still going.
Zhadnost
29-01-2009, 10:02
Often VM chooses to use a transit link (DTAG) rather than LINX so blame VM's routing.
Weird, my uk2 server always routes through LINX (from here).
AbyssUnderground
29-01-2009, 10:28
Weird, my uk2 server always routes through LINX (from here).
Thats Virgin's choice. OVH have spoken with Virgin about making LINX their permanent route. It would cost them nothing and would save them money on bandwidth over the DTAG transit link... but no, Virgin's choice was to bear ignorance and chose to pointlessly pay for the bandwidth usage instead.
Nothing we can do I'm afraid, Virgin just don't give a care in the world about making the service better or saving money.
Ignitionnet
29-01-2009, 16:23
Even slower now and route has changed, still via peering but at Frankfurt now rather than LINX or AmsIX.
Probably VM doing traffic management and load balancing on their network, getting around 400kB/s.
No idea why it affects OVH so badly, definitely not transit from VM's point of view, if OVH are sending back via transit that's their prerogative. VM should be sending them the same advertisement as every other peer.
Does seem an odd route though, Frankfurt to get to Paris. Wonder what the return path from OVH is?
AbyssUnderground
29-01-2009, 21:45
Even slower now and route has changed, still via peering but at Frankfurt now rather than LINX or AmsIX.
Probably VM doing traffic management and load balancing on their network, getting around 400kB/s.
No idea why it affects OVH so badly, definitely not transit from VM's point of view, if OVH are sending back via transit that's their prerogative. VM should be sending them the same advertisement as every other peer.
Does seem an odd route though, Frankfurt to get to Paris. Wonder what the return path from OVH is?
There is an explanation for that, excuse the bad translation from French:Hello,
Starting from 22h until 6 am, there are works
on the fiber optic cable between Roubaix and Brussels. A
new railway line is built and we
resoldering must ask and optical fibers for
this work.
Learn more:
http://travaux.ovh.com/?do=details&id=2796
The result will be heavy enough at our level, since
we will lose the network directly to Brussels, Amsterdam
and Warsaw approximately 30Gbps traffic. This traffic is
can not go through the link Paris to Frankfurt 2x10G
and although we will not make the tour of Europe ...
We are going to cut the ads in Warsaw and BGP
Amsterdam (Brussels will be cut off). The traffic will be
automatically passed through London and Frankfurt, but
this should not happen without problems. We will
loss of packets to NL, DE and PL between 22:00
and 1:00 in the morning at least, probably UK too.
We are in the validation of new investment
in terms of our ability to work but they arrive
at the wrong time. That said, this work will help us
see if what you planned to do in the future will
avoid such problems short (few hours)
but problems still.
Amicalement
OctaveSummary: Fibre optic cables are being switched off for 8 hours while they carry out re-routing work due to a new train line running through the middle of where they had their lines located.
:)
Here is a trace to and from my server.
OVH > VM
Tracing route to xxxxxx.no-ip.com [xxxxxxxxxxxx]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms rbx-4-m1.routers.ovh.net [91.121.17.253]
2 * 30 ms * rbx-1-6k.routers.ovh.net [213.251.191.1]
3 4 ms * 4 ms 160g.gsw-1-6k.routers.ovh.net [213.186.32.225]
4 4 ms 3 ms 4 ms 2g.above.gsw-1-6k.routers.ovh.net [213.186.32.234]
5 4 ms 4 ms 6 ms te3-1.mpr2.cdg2.fr.above.net [64.125.23.6]
6 12 ms 12 ms 12 ms ge4-7.er2a.cdg2.fr.above.net [64.125.23.22]
7 25 ms 25 ms 29 ms btbroadcast-above-2.lhr3.above.net [213.161.65.150]
8 40 ms 25 ms 26 ms man-bb-b-so-010-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.185.134]
9 37 ms 37 ms 36 ms midd-t3core-1b-so-000-0.network.virginmedia.net
[213.105.75.50]
10 35 ms 37 ms 37 ms midd-t2cam1-b-pc201.network.virginmedia.net [195.182.176.118]
11 32 ms 31 ms 31 ms midd-cmts-10-ge02.network.virginmedia.net [213.106.239.238]
12 59 ms 51 ms 56 ms cpc2-midd10-0-0-custxxx.midd.cable.ntl.com [xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Trace complete.
VM > OVH
Tracing route to abyssunderground.co.uk [91.121.17.201]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms dd-wrt [192.168.1.1]
2 9 ms 7 ms 9 ms 10.156.136.1
3 7 ms 8 ms 30 ms midd-t2cam1-b-ge81.network.virginmedia.net [213.106.239.237]
4 13 ms 28 ms 30 ms midd-t3core-1b-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net [195.182.176.117]
5 26 ms 43 ms 71 ms man-bb-b-so-310-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.75.49]
6 47 ms 42 ms 39 ms nth-bb-a-so-220-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.64.21]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * 121 ms * 160g.rbx-2-6k.routers.ovh.net [213.186.32.201]
11 62 ms 59 ms 47 ms rbx-4-m1.routers.ovh.net [213.251.191.135]
12 54 ms 45 ms 53 ms abyssunderground.co.uk [91.121.17.201]
Trace complete.You can't even tell the return path because the pings and reverse lookup is unavailable. Could be down to the work being carried out however, so tomorrow if you remind me I'll test again :)
I should add I'm currently downloading at 850KB/s single threaded from my FTP server, thats normal for me so no issues there. If I make more than one connection I could hit the full 1.2MB/s (10Mbps).
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