View Full Version : BT to make 0845/0870 free from 16 January
...for some tariffs!
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?BT_scraps_charges_for_0870_numbers&in_article_id=465476&in_page_id=34
Telecoms giant BT today announced it was scrapping charges for 0870 and 0845 numbers, used by millions of customers, in a move which will cost the company £24 million.
Charges will be free from January 16, depending on which package customers are on, ranging from weekend, evening and any time calls.
And I bet it's only thier own customers!!
Charlie_Bubble
08-01-2009, 12:03
And I bet it's only thier own customers!!
Why should BT bear the cost for other telecoms providers customers??
MadGamer
08-01-2009, 13:58
Why should BT bear the cost for other telecoms providers customers?? For the people that are with other providers like Sky for their phone service, Sky dont actually own the line, BT do.
Charlie_Bubble
08-01-2009, 14:33
For the people that are with other providers like Sky for their phone service, Sky dont actually own the line, BT do.
Yes, but Sky (or whoever) pay BT for the line and you pay Sky for all the calls/line rental. You are effectively a Sky customer using BTs network infrastructure. So, why should BT pay for other telecoms providers customers to access these numbers?
These numbers are taken by businesses/organisations to make money from people calling them. These numbers are nothing to do with BT. BT have announced that they will pay for THEIR customers to call them. If you don't pay your bill to BT, why should they pay for you to call them? They're a business not a charity.
Why should BT bear the cost for other telecoms providers customers??
Hmmm, seems like my original reply got lost somewhere, so here's what I recall saying.
The numbers are virtual, behind them there is a real number, usually begining 01 or 02. A bit like a mail PO Box or re-direction service.
BT have a monopoly on controling these numbers. They lease them in blocks to 're-sellers' in return for guaranteed minimum, upfront payment. A %age of the fees for any calls over the guaranteed minimum are also payable to BT.
(That's why the rates for these numbers carry the disclaimer 'from a BT landline. Rates from other networks may vary and mobiles will be considerably dearer', or words to that effect.)
The re-seller in turn leases them in smaller blocks, even as low as singularly to anyone, even an individual.
The fee paid by the caller is shared between BT, the re-seller and sometimes the lessee if there are sufficient calls or the contract allows.
So if BT are not going to charge thier customers for calls to these numbers, are they going to compensate the re-seller - not that I'm bothered;)
I'm on Talk Talk, who have gone down the route of installing thier own equipment in the BT exchanges - the so called unbundling of the local loop. They give me free (well upto an hour) local, national and most international calls, so by using saynoto0870 to find the real number behind an 0870 or 0845 number I can get free calls to them anyway.
Presumably, if you are still on dial up Internet access to an 0845 number, and a BT customer, you will now have no cost access!!
Here's another issue, TT say they guarantee to cost less than the equivalent BT Tarrif, so if BT are giving calls to these numbers away, does that mean TT will pay me for calling them? I doubt it, and somewhere in thier T&C's it'll probably say 'except non-geographical numbers'.
I suppose I really ought to go and read the announcement before spouting off:angel:
Ignitionnet
09-01-2009, 11:10
For the people that are with other providers like Sky for their phone service, Sky dont actually own the line, BT do.
It's being done by BT Retail, who buy the lines from BT Wholesale same as everyone else does and set their own call rates.
The provision of the numbers is done by BT Wholesale, not retail, so the two are not connected with one another, the deal from Retail and the provisioning and charging of the numbers at the other side.
Any operator could do this so long as they are prepared to take the hit, which Retail and in turn the rest of BT are.
Retail will continue to pay Wholesale for these calls as normal, they just won't charge their end user for them. Same for other people using the numbers, they'll get their cash as per normal.
Thanks for clearing that up, Broadbandings. The whole BT set up is so fragmented, supposedly to improve competition from other providers.
Don't suppose it is worth pointing out that Virgin have had phone plans that cover 0845 and 0870 numbers for all their customers since October 2007?
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/websales/product.do?id=10533
Ignitionnet
10-01-2009, 12:57
Don't suppose it is worth pointing out that Virgin have had phone plans that cover 0845 and 0870 numbers for all their customers since October 2007?
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/websales/product.do?id=10533
Not in the slightest Ben, shoo :p:
Charlie_Bubble
10-01-2009, 13:04
Don't suppose it is worth pointing out that Virgin have had phone plans that cover 0845 and 0870 numbers for all their customers since October 2007?
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/websales/product.do?id=10533
Yes, but if I'm reading it right, that's an additional £9 charge on top of your package to possibly negate 0845/0870 charges, whereas the BT one is free.
Will be free. It's not free yet whereas Virgin customers could have been getting a better deal for the last 15 months ;)
Charlie_Bubble
10-01-2009, 18:03
Will be free. It's not free yet whereas Virgin customers could have been getting a better deal for the last 15 months ;)
I don't see where you can make a comparison between the two as they are completely different things. You are pointing out an additional, pay-up-front tariff that happens to include these numbers as numbers that the minutes can count against. The BT announcement means you just don't have to pay for them any more, no payment up front, no counting against minutes. BT also have free calling to various kinds of numbers, many at no additional costs, so to try and make a comparison is not sensible in my opinion.
Yet how much have BT customers paid over the last 15 months compared with those Virgin customers that have been on the Talk Anywhere plans?
I wasn't at all trying to make a comparison going forward, and personally I hope Virgin follow suit.
What I was trying to show that Virgin could have been better value than BT for at least a year
BT also have free calling to various kinds of numbers, many at no additional costs, so to try and make a comparison is not sensible in my opinion.
The only way you can get a phone plan 'at no additional cost' with BT is to get tied into a rolling 18 month contract
Charlie_Bubble
11-01-2009, 01:30
Well, I'm a BT customer and I use an 0845 and an 0870 number once a month, so maybe a few pence a month.
arcamalpha2004
11-01-2009, 08:19
Yet how much have BT customers paid over the last 15 months compared with those Virgin customers that have been on the Talk Anywhere plans?
I wasn't at all trying to make a comparison going forward, and personally I hope Virgin follow suit.
What I was trying to show that Virgin could have been better value than BT for at least a year
The only way you can get a phone plan 'at no additional cost' with BT is to get tied into a rolling 18 month contract
Well Ben for the past 15 months ( longer infact ) I have been a lot better off with BT than with VM for the telephone.
And now with that announcement I will be even better off!
Just to add I am not tied into an 18 month rolling contract.
Are VM not doing the same thing anyway? if you have been with VM since the days of NTL and you want one of the deals they are offering new customers you are tied into another minimum contract?
So imo anyway VM have a lot of catching up before I would even consider going back.
They may tie you into a new contract, but it isn't self restarting like the BT one is
As BT put it (and I got it slightly wrong as its a 12 month not 18 month thing) for both the Evening & Weekend/Anytime plans:
for new and existing residential customers signing up to a 12 month renewable contract. This means you have a 12 month minimum renewable period. So, after 12 months, your contract will be automatically renewed for another 12 month minimum renewable period unless you tell us otherwise. We'll write to remind you when your contract is nearing the end of a renewable period.
NitroNutter
22-01-2009, 12:20
If ofcom had ever had any guts and held the consumers interests as priority they would have ensured 08 costapacket never deviated from its original advertised rate alignments and these numbers would and should have allways have been included in this way in accordance with your particular plan. The fact is this is not a favour by BT or is it at their expense, it is just we have spent the last decade or so suffering this scam we have got used to it as a way of life that it is now being put accross as a sales gimmick for the benefit of the customer at the great expense of the company. However the reality is BT and other telco's has made billions on the 08 scam and actively encouraged all companies and service providers to take them up which has been at the expense of the consumer and further exacerbated false inflation figures due to after sales consumer complaint fees being charged to the complainants themselves and thereby contributung to complaint mechanism's expenses post sale.
Who else notices the support lines allways have an extended run the customers bill up auto answer & que but most sales lines from the same companies are quickly answered especially when on a freephone tarrif.
Even today and we must be near to if not beyond a decade since 0870/45 detached themselves from the original advertised rates of local and national rate and moved into lines of profit on a reduced scale to full premium rate lines there are still many who are unaware of the missalignment from the past.
All I can say is its about time, lets hope ofcom grows some extra body parts and stands up to such acts sooner rather than later in the future especially if tarrifs dealign themselves again in a similar manner as its obvious this backtrack on 08 tarrifs has occured due to the replacement 03 being so late in coming it was doomed to failure. In fairness to the consumer 03 should have become the lower special rate profit line prefix and 08 should have been forced to realign and hold the alignments in the future as originally advertised.
It is thanks to websites such as saynoto0870.com and all who have regularly complained to the regulatory bodies like ofcom and trading standards that has brought this turn around about.
According to the letter I received from them yesterday, they're putting up line rental by 98p a month from April. That should more than compensate them for this generous move...
It's a lot more than that!
http://www.bt.com/callchanges
It's a lot more than that!
Well, quite. And with many companies changing to 0844, you might think BT's free calls to 0845/0870 was some kind of gimmicky smokescreen.
And the paperless billing option discriminates against those who do not have Internet access, usually the less financially secure and vulnerable - like my elderly mother-in-law.
Republican_Boy
09-02-2009, 09:20
Yeah, the 0845 and 0870 numbers may be free now but only within you're Talk Time Tariff.
Also like every other offer BT throw at you it is of course to good to be true.
In one hand they are saving you money, providing you call a lot of 0845/0870 numbers but at the same time they are taking even money out of you're other hand because they are increasing the price of line rental, call charges and I do believe each select service you rent, i.e. Caller Display, Call Barring, etc will cost £2.50 each a month!
Not in the slightest Ben, shoo :p:
Talk Anywhere covers 0845 and 0870 numbers as well mobiles,01,02 and 03 and even all international numbers.
---------- Post added at 17:25 ---------- Previous post was at 17:19 ----------
Yeah, the 0845 and 0870 numbers may be free now but only within you're Talk Time Tariff.
Also like every other offer BT throw at you it is of course to good to be true.
In one hand they are saving you money, providing you call a lot of 0845/0870 numbers but at the same time they are taking even money out of you're other hand because they are increasing the price of line rental, call charges and I do believe each select service you rent, i.e. Caller Display, Call Barring, etc will cost £2.50 each a month!
Like I say there are hidden costs with BT which cover the losses of allowing free/cheap access to 0845 and 0870 numbers.
1471 plus 3: Cost 6p everytime you use it even if the call is not connected.
Anonymous caller rejection: Costs £4 per month
BT Line rental: 50p per month more expensive than Virgin phonelines
Call connection fees: These call connection fees used by cable companies over the years have been adopted by nearly all landline companies,this also covers the costs.
Furthermore, it is also possible for all phone companies including BT to put a call connection fee on ALL calls even if its a call inside your bundle, the only calls BT wouldnt be able to do it on would be freephone numbers and free-to-page numbers. Therefore it would be like how Telewest used to charge for the free local cable to cable calls.
Republican_Boy
11-02-2009, 07:30
Turns out BT are also making 0800 numbers free to call from BT Mobile now. I think it goes ahead in May sometime, so that makes BT the first company to let its mobile customers call 0800 for free from their mobiles.
Only problem with that though is who actually has a BT Mobile account?
Turns out BT are also making 0800 numbers free to call from BT Mobile now. I think it goes ahead in May sometime, so that makes BT the first company to let its mobile customers call 0800 for free from their mobiles.
Only problem with that though is who actually has a BT Mobile account?
Calls to freephone numbers were free on nearly all networks until 1999, Virgin Mobile introduced the lowest charge for calling freephone numbers in 2001 and remains the lowest compared to other networks.
BT Mobile no longer accepts new customers and they are expensive on purpose to force customers off so that they wont have to pay Vodafone such a large lease. They only offer BT Business Mobile and BT Mobile Broadband which also runs along Vodafone's network.
Orange recently stopped free access to freephone numbers because customers took the biscuit and used the free access for calling cards to call internationally whilst Orange didnt recieve a penny! Orange then started tracking all the calling card numbers but was complicated so they now just offer free access to 0800-REVERSE and certain charities like Virgin.
BT Payphones,Spectrum Interactive (New World Payphones) and Infolines Public Network payphones still offer free access to freephone numbers which I suggest you use when you are out and about. They get commision from the other end for this which is about 8p per minute, 18% of payphone revenue comes from this! Thats why its free, the non-BT payphone operators barred freephone numbers up until 1998 when oftel introduced the scheme, The non-BT operators mostly operate in busy city centres and towns where they make money, they maintain there kiosks alot better than BT's and all of them have lights unlike BT's where I had to stand in the dark when my battery went.
Mobile networks have to pay for connection to the the recieveing end for some reason which is why they dont offer free access.
Last year I moaned a T-Mobile why they charge 40p per minute for calling 08 numbers and they said ''Its a business decision and were able to do so since taking over the company from Cable and Wireless/United Artists.
Orange didnt reply!
Vodafone said it was because they had to pay another service provider such as BT Wholesale for termination rates.
O2 replied and just gave me the pay and go tariff sheet plus cheaper ways of calling freephone numbers, they didnt actually respond to my question!
So they only honest one was T-Mobile! lol
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