Do Virgin do a Call Sign service? Or second phone line info...

[DaggaDagga]

I'm going to start working from home next year, and want to get a second phone number for business use. I'm currently working out the options...

I already have Virgin 2Mb broadband and a phone line for £20 per month.

I know VoIP is the cheapest option. However, I have tried Vonage and Sipgate in the past and found the call quality and reliability were not good enough. I'm happy to pay a premium for a "proper" phone line.

BT did a service called "Call Sign", which allows you to have two phone numbers on one line, with different ring tones. This would be perfectly fine for my needs, but I have read that they no longer do it for new customers...

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=784105

Do Virgin offer Call Sign? This would be the perfect solution, but I suspect the answer will be a No (we don't even get Caller ID on our existing line).

So it looks like a second physical line is the only option. I read that this now costs £11 per month...

http://allyours.virginmedia.com/pdf/001364%20Residential%20tariffs.pdf?december08

Wasn't a second line much cheaper in the past? I seem to remember it was about a fiver a month in the past. Would Virgin be able to offer any discounts or bundles to reduce this cost?

Will the second line already be cabled? We have the usual plastic box outside the house (installed 4 years ago), with a single round black cable going to the phone socket. Will the second line be already cabled to the outside box, or even to the existing phone socket? The cable from the outside box to the street is now two feet under the garden, so adding another cable might be tricky.

Alternatively, I know BT do provide a VoIP line with their broadband Home Hub. Does anyone know whether they do prioritise the VoIP data through their network to give better sound quality? I always found it ropey through NTL's broadband, but if BT is providing the VoIP service and the network then perhaps it may work better. If so then switching both phone and broadband to BT might be the answer.

All answers, ideas and help gratefully received. Hopefully this thread may be useful for the many others with a similar requirement. Thank you.

[BenMcr]

Virgin don't do Call Sign or anything simliar

For a second line with them it is £11 a mont and £30 install (which would cover getting up and running including any cabling required)

[DaggaDagga]

Thanks very much for your reply. Confirmed what I thought about fancy phone services on Virgin!

Does anyone know whether the second phone line will already be cabled, at least to the box on the outside of the house? I don't fancy finding the end of the plastic duct, as it's now underneath a path. The original fitters left it a little short, so it's just bare cable underground for the last couple of feet before it pops up into the box.

---------- Post added at 15:32 ---------- Previous post was at 15:19 ----------

Oh, and another related question...

If I was to get two lines from BT then I pay 2 x line rentals, but then only have to pay 1 x package charge, which applies to both lines.

E.g. £11.50 x 2 line rental, + £4.85 Unlimited Anytime Plan = £27.85.

This gives me free calls anytime on both lines, not just one.

Do NTL do a similar offer, or would I need to pay 2 x NTL's equivalent package, once for each phone line?

Thanks.

[chickendippers]

If you're working from home you will need to carefully examine both the BT and Virgin Media terms and conditions, usually the services are for residential use only. You may need to contact BT Business or ntl:Telewest Business for the appropriate business rates.

If there was a problem with your phone/broadband, the argument "I use these services to work, I'm loosing money" would hold no water on a residential service.

[Kymmy]

If there was a problem with your phone/broadband, the argument "I use these services to work, I'm loosing money" would hold no water on a residential service.

Yep there's been a few people this last year saying that exact same thing... At least the NTL/TW business phones have a 6 hour SLA where as with a VM line you could be waiting weeks for a repair...

[DaggaDagga]

Thanks for the replies. I hadn't thought about the business/home issues.

I'm happy to only receive a residential standard of service. Perhaps I should keep quiet about what I'm going to use it for then.

If the phone line dies then I accept that I can't sue them for losing the £10 million order I was expecting! (I wish).

Would I be correct to assume that if the same service is branded as business then the price would be at least 3x ?

I'm not planning on being on the phone all day - far from it. I just need to give a contact number to look professional, but want to keep the home number private. It also makes things easier when I want to move the business to stunning headquarters after it's a massive success.

All thoughts welcomed...

[PeteTheMusicGuy]

I strongly suggest getting a business line as has been suggested by other posters. I think some of the BT Business packages have 4 hour response time as well

[Kymmy]

I'm not planning on being on the phone all day - far from it. I just need to give a contact number to look professional, but want to keep the home number private. It also makes things easier when I want to move the business to stunning headquarters after it's a massive success.

All thoughts welcomed...

Skype then, just pay the £2.24 incl. VAT a month for Unlimited country, this will then give you a landline number that you can then forward to your home line (you don't pay anymore)

Keeps your home number private but doesn't need an internet connection after your initial setup

[DaggaDagga]

Skype then, just pay the £2.24 incl. VAT a month for Unlimited country, this will then give you a landline number that you can then forward to your home line (you don't pay anymore)

Keeps your home number private but doesn't need an internet connection after your initial setup

Thanks for that, I didn't know that was an option.

Unfortunately, it's not going to work for me. I was trying to avoid making my first post too long by including every bit of info, but with Call Sign you can get a box that plugs into the phone socket and splits it into two phone lines, according to the ring tone. I can then have one line to the study, the other to the home phone and only the right phone rings. This means I then know whether to answer the phone professionally or just by grunting like I normally do. It also means I can switch the study line onto an answering machine outside office hours and not get bothered by anyone when I'm relaxing with a beer.

I'll just have to stand the cost of the extra line. Any further info on the above questions? Thanks to all so far. This should be useful info for a good number of people.

---------- Post added at 18:07 ---------- Previous post was at 17:58 ----------

I strongly suggest getting a business line as has been suggested by other posters. I think some of the BT Business packages have 4 hour response time as well

I have had a look, and business lines are more expensive (but not massively, surprisingly). You don't get any inclusive call packages though.

I'm not planning to run a call centre, I just need a point of contact. I'll be mainly selling stuff online - to me, a proper phone number gives a reassuring feeling to a customer.

I've never known my existing NTL line to stop working, and it wouldn't be a crisis if it did. I would assume that even a business line doesn't guarantee anything - I'd guess that if they exceed 4 hours then their contract states that they're not responsible for any losses as a result (e.g. that £10 million order). You probably just get a few quid back, just as with a home phone (but after a shorter time).

The other issue is that the BT line is physically disconnected, and BT charge much more than NTL for installation.

The phone will be accessed indirectly anyway, via a freephone number. I can just divert this to my mobile if there is a problem with the line (and I know about it).

[chickendippers]

Thanks for that, I didn't know that was an option.

Unfortunately, it's not going to work for me.
Perhaps you could mention why Skype isn't viable for you? Or are you looking for something that doesn't reply on your internet connection?

[Kymmy]

Perhaps you could mention why Skype isn't viable for you? Or are you looking for something that doesn't reply on your internet connection?from his answer in that post it's purely because he wants to know which line is being called (not possible on a forwarded skype call) and the fact that in a previous post he didn't like the quality of a VoIP call if using skype on a PC/dedicated Handset.

Mind you after using Skype myself I must admit that the quality is no worse than my landline and when I use my USB2 headset in stereo with xtrabase it sounds amazing :p:

[DaggaDagga]

I have tried both Vonage and Sipgate. I actually got rid of the phone line and we got a Vonage router. Sometimes we couldn't get a line out at all, other times it was very poor quality. You could communicate, but it wasn't very natural to speak.

I think the problem was mainly upstream - someone I rang said I sounded like a dalek, while they sounded fine to me, if a bit distant. I had 10Mb broadband at the time.

Opinions on VoIP seem to be polarised into either "brilliant" or "awful". I suspect it's a lot to do with the latency on a particular broadband line or something similar. Nobody would have said our Vonage was acceptable, in fact the other half demanded a "proper" phone after complaints from her parents. I carefully twiddled every setting thoroughly on both services I tried.

I'm happy to pay a bit more for clarity, as a call may be from someone about to spend money.

So it sounds like a second line is the only option then. Virgin don't even offer it as an option on their upgrade wizard - I guess it's less demanded these days now that nobody uses dial-up internet.

Anyone know about the pricing for bundling and what cabling I'll already have in place (as above)?

Thanks to all so far - I haven't been on this forum for years. Good to see it's still so busy, even in sleepy old Fixed Phone corner!

[m419]

Virgin don't do Call Sign or anything simliar

For a second line with them it is £11 a mont and £30 install (which would cover getting up and running including any cabling required)

Virgin Media do actually provide this in the Yorkshire area which is an ex-Telewest(Yorkshire Cable) franchise.

Alternatively, a second line can be installed between the cost of £10 and £25.

Benefits of using a Virgin phone line:

Better sound quality
Quick Dial Calling feature(Not available on BT)
£11 per month line rental(BT's line rental is £11.50,£12.50 for some)
Anonymous caller rejection is cheaper
One bill for all your services
Better Call baring options compared to BT
Cheaper installation cost

BT will install a second line for £124.99! And some areas do not support Call sign just like Virgin Media,so if you do switch,check first!

You will be suprised at what services arent available in some areas! I mean im in North West of London bordering Central london and Broadband line checker for all the ADSL providers showed that Broadband wasnt available on my street, so only option available is Virgin Media or mobile broadband!

[BenMcr]

Virgin Media do actually provide this in the Yorkshire area which is an ex-Telewest(Yorkshire Cable) franchise.
Technically it's possible, but it isn't something Virgin sell. It was withdrawn as part of the Call Features standardisation earlier this year

[DaggaDagga]

Thanks for that info, m419.

So I'll ring them and ask about Call Sign anyway (although I'm ex-NTL so probably No).

The install cost of BT certainly puts me off, and I'm very happy with my existing Virgin BB and phone. Due to package costs, I'd have to take my BB to BT too if I switched, and I don't want to swap cable for the bit of doorbell wire that I've already got for BT - it's not even twisted pair, so I wouldn't hold out much hope.

Plus I'd have to do a lot of wiring to get BT up and running - the NTL line is already where it needs to be, the BT one isn't.

So I'm fairly decided on a second Virgin phone line then.

Just two questions remaining:

Does anyone know whether the second line will already be connected to the house?
Do NTL require me to pay just one calls package for both lines or one package per line?

Thanks all.

---------- Post added at 20:27 ---------- Previous post was at 20:25 ----------

Technically it's possible, but it isn't something Virgin sell. It was withdrawn as part of the Call Features standardisation earlier this year

Aha - so "standardisation" = reduce all services to the lowest possible!

Thanks for the info though.

---------- Post added at 20:32 ---------- Previous post was at 20:27 ----------


BT will install a second line for £124.99! And some areas do not support Call sign just like Virgin Media,so if you do switch,check first!


In my case they'd probably double it, as I don't even have a first line.

If BT did do Call Sign then I would have got away with one line, but I have read that BT won't install it for new customers anyway.

So BT isn't a sensible option if they won't do Call Sign.

[BenMcr]

Aha - so "standardisation" = reduce all services to the lowest possible!

Thanks for the info though.
Unfortunately due to the amount of different telecoms kit Virgin have, sometimes that is all they can do

[beeman]

Does anyone know whether the second line will already be connected to the house?

Im sure a techniction will correct me if im wrong. From memory the standard telephone wire that runs from the street level box to your house is 6 core (a normal telephone line uses 2 cores) so theoretically the cable bringing your phone into your house is capable of carrying upto 3 lines without new cable needing running from the street to your house :)

[DaggaDagga]

Im sure a techniction will correct me if im wrong. From memory the standard telephone wire that runs from the street level box to your house is 6 core (a normal telephone line uses 2 cores) so theoretically the cable bringing your phone into your house is capable of carrying upto 3 lines without new cable needing running from the street to your house :)

Thanks, sounds good. The lid fell off the outside box when I was working near it outside a while back, and I do remember there were some curled up unconnected spare wires tucked inside it.

So hopefully no digging then.