View Full Version : BBC website streaming video
I have a problem with the short video clips on the BBC website. Not talking about iPlayer - I don't have that installed - just the little clips that accompany some news items.
Now, I've never had any trouble viewing clips from the likes of YouTube and various other websites - they all play just fine. But the clips on the BBC website nearly always suffer from frequent pausing and re-buffering. I had thought that perhaps it was just the popularity of the BBC, and their servers might be overloaded. But recently I tried watching a few clips at my mother-in-law's house (where the broadband is PlusNet ADSL) and there were no problems at all.
So I'm left with three possibilities:
1. There's something not quite right with my PC setup. Perhaps I need some additional software to properly support whatever technology the BBC uses. Would having iPlayer installed help?
2. The technology that the BBC use consumes far more network bandwidth than others. (Which would be a bit silly on the BBC's part).
3. Or could it just be that Virgin deliberately throttle BBC video traffic? I have no idea if they do, but thought someone here would know the answer to that.
(If it's relevant, I'm on 10MB cable in Watford).
telfordcable
09-12-2008, 20:27
Another VM throttling tv streaming online !!! Great !!!
Try updating your flash player first as that was one reason as to why I couldn't watch BBC news clips on one PC
moaningmags
09-12-2008, 20:33
Another VM throttling tv streaming online !!! Great !!!
The OP was asking a question, not stating a fact.
1. There's something not quite right with my PC setup. Perhaps I need some additional software to properly support whatever technology the BBC uses. Would having iPlayer installed help?
No. The web based iplayer system the BBC uses to stream videos is based upon a totally different technology (Adobe Flash) to the iPlayer download client (Windows Media Player)
Most likely it is a Flash Player issue, it is a strange beast. Although it may appear that flash movies are flash movies, but thee are actually several different file types requiring different codecs, some of which may not be that great. I can watch some flash videos fine but other are very jerky even though fully buffered - a quick check shows CPU usage to be ridiculously high, look like that is the issue.
Hmmm, just remembered I have Flash 10 Beta installed - I should probably upgrade since Flash 10.0.12.36 is out.
Update.
Yeah, that fixed it.
The BBC's implementation of the Flash player is fecking awful. Partly this is due to restrictions demanded by variour rights holders in their content. They have to deliver it in a way that can't be saved on your PC, from where it could be transcoded and distributed. This seems to involve disabling the Flash player's ability to preload up to the whole video while you're watching. It buffers only a couple of seconds of material, if anything.
However I don't think this fully answers the issue. I have similar issues with the streaming iPlayer on my nice and stable 2meg VM ADSL connection. 2meg should be ample for iPlayer to work, but it rarely does. I can find identical clips on iPlayer and on the BBC's Youtube channel and while the Youtube version will load the entire video in seconds and play just fine, iPlayer stutters and stalls to the point it becomes unusable. Even allowing for the lack of preloading in the iPlayer, I think there's a huge and significant difference in the connection I'm getting to Youtube versus the connection I'm getting to the BBC.
It seems to me that either VM is throttling the iPlayer in some way or it's deliberately limiting its peering capacity to the BBC's network.
AndyCambs
10-12-2008, 11:08
It seems to me that either VM is throttling the iPlayer in some way or it's deliberately limiting its peering capacity to the BBC's network.
Not necessarily - I get the same problem at work, which isn't VM - so you can't assume VM are throttling anything, unless you think there is a global conspiracy.....?;)
Conspiracy! Conspiracy! wibble wibble
Sorry, what was that you were saying? :D
AndyCambs
10-12-2008, 11:35
Conspiracy! Conspiracy! wibble wibble
Sorry, what was that you were saying? :D
Sorry - couldn't resist that. So many people seem to think on here that VM are part of some sinister global conspiracy to overtake the world or something by the sounds of it!
Most likely it is a Flash Player issue, it is a strange beast. Although it may appear that flash movies are flash movies, but thee are actually several different file types requiring different codecs, some of which may not be that great. I can watch some flash videos fine but other are very jerky even though fully buffered - a quick check shows CPU usage to be ridiculously high, look like that is the issue.
Hmmm, just remembered I have Flash 10 Beta installed - I should probably upgrade since Flash 10.0.12.36 is out.
Update.
Yeah, that fixed it.
Thanks for the suggestion. I installed the latest Flash player (10.0.12.36), but still get the pauses. Task Manager shows no excessive CPU usage while playing or buffering (typically under 5% CPU). I just get the impression that the network traffic sometimes falters. But why it only affects BBC video remains a mystery.
What would help is if anyone could tell me some other websites whose streaming video also uses Flash. I could then try those to see if I get the same problem.
Visit the BBC's Youtube channel. You'll find many of the same programme clips and trailers as you will find in the iPlayer itself (especially Doctor Who trailers - you're pretty much guaranteed to find both Youtube and iPlayer versions of all of those).
What would help is if anyone could tell me some other websites whose streaming video also uses Flash. I could then try those to see if I get the same problem.
http://fwd.five.tv/ uses flash
Visit the BBC's Youtube channel. You'll find many of the same programme clips and trailers as you will find in the iPlayer itself (especially Doctor Who trailers - you're pretty much guaranteed to find both Youtube and iPlayer versions of all of those).
I'm not bothered about programme clips and trailers. It's the video items on their news website that I sometimes want to watch.
http://fwd.five.tv/ uses flash
Thanks. I tried a few of their clips and they worked fine. But I noticed that they buffer the whole clip while it plays, so that presumably smooths out any transient network holdups.
Acording to Chris, the BBC's video doesn't do that, so it's very vulnerable to brief connectivity hiccups. Bottom line seems to be that it just doesn't work that well over my Virgin connection.
I'm not bothered about programme clips and trailers. It's the video items on their news website that I sometimes want to watch.
You may not be bothered about them, but that wasn't the point. You asked where to go to perform a test - well the way I described is the best way to do it, because you can test exactly the same clip running over two different implementations of the Flash player; one of them on Youtube, the other on the iPlayer.
You should find that even with a relatively humble 2meg connection, you can preload an entire BBC clip on Youtube in seconds and watch the whole thing stutter-free. But try an identical clip delivered over iPlayer and it will stutter all over the place, if it plays at all.
Thanks. I tried a few of their clips and they worked fine. But I noticed that they buffer the whole clip while it plays, so that presumably smooths out any transient network holdups.
Acording to Chris, the BBC's video doesn't do that, so it's very vulnerable to brief connectivity hiccups. Bottom line seems to be that it just doesn't work that well over my Virgin connection.
It was one of the BBC's own techs who explained the no-buffer rule to me, in comments on a BBC Internet blog post. However he never answered my supplementary question about possible peering issues between VM and the BBC. I don't know what the complete explanation is, but I can't believe it's entirely down to the lack of buffering. The download speed on the iPlayer is almost nonexistent on my machine most of the time.
You may not be bothered about them, but that wasn't the point. You asked where to go to perform a test - well the way I described is the best way to do it, because you can test exactly the same clip running over two different implementations of the Flash player; one of them on Youtube, the other on the iPlayer.
OK, I understand now. I thought you were suggesting an alternative source of the clips I wanted.
For sure I've watched occasional clips on the YouTube BBC channel, and they always play just fine. I didn't know that YouTube also uses the Flash player. So it must be the buffering strategy used on the BBC website. That, or Virgin are doing something (remember that I had no problems at all on my mother-in-law's PlusNet ADSL connection).
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