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View Full Version : ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk is not being upgraded


john coley
24-11-2008, 19:02
Hi everybody, I posted recently about the oversubscription of the above ubr. Since then I have had several enquiries from customers on the same ubr. The order for the ubr to be upgraded was issued on the 22nd of October, and since then there have been a series of dates for the work to be done, the last being the 10th of November.
A contact in retentions has been chasing them up, and today emailed me with some very bad news, not only for me, but the other 28 customers. The UBR isn't going to be upgraded this year, and there are no plans to upgrade it next year either.
As I said in my original post on the subject of the UBR I'm on the 20 mbps package, and my speed fluctuates between 1 and 4 mbps.
Were it just a matter of a month or so till things were going to be put right I'd ask for a refund, but given that it isn't going to be done other than for suing I can't see what other options are open to me. I've already complained. The situation is so bad that a manager in tech support has just helped me with a second complaint. It isn't as if there's no technical evidence, there's plenty.
Virgin Media have to learn that a contract cuts two ways. We have obligations to the company, and they have obligations to customers. If a fault is identified they are obliged to repair it.
I'd be interested to see what you all make of it.
John.

xspeedyx
24-11-2008, 19:07
You will need to complain to OFCOM due to they are not fixing the fault within there own SLA and OFCOM are very strict with things like this.

Hope this helps

General Maximus
24-11-2008, 19:12
sounds like a great idea, if they get a kick up the ass it might encourage them to be more proactive in identifying these sorts of problems and improve the customer experience

xspeedyx
24-11-2008, 19:23
According to Alex Brown at the moment they have lots of capacity (Yeah Right)

john coley
24-11-2008, 19:29
Hi, thanks for replying. I have already reported the matter to Ofcom. As the information in their reply will be of use generally I've pasted the text here.
Thanks again,
John.
13 November 2008







Dear Mr Coley

Virgin Media Ltd


Thank you for your email to Ofcom regarding the above company.



I was sorry to read about the problems you have been experiencing and I can confirm that a record of your complaint has been made here at Ofcom. This will feed into the statistics that we collate to help us monitor trends in consumer concerns.



I appreciate that you have approached us for help but Ofcom does not become involved in settling disputes that consumers have with their service providers. Ofcom’s role is about encouraging the communications industry to take ownership in addressing and resolving these.



If you have already contacted Virgin Media Ltd and feel you have been dealt with poorly or unreasonably, you can ask for your complaint to be taken to a higher level. Information on how to go about this can be found in your service provider’s code of practice which should detail their full complaints procedure. Some service providers also print complaint information on the back of their phone bills.



By following your service provider’s complaints procedure, it is likely you will be able to resolve your dispute. If you have exhausted the complaints procedure and you remain unhappy, you should request that your service provider sends you a letter which outlines their final position. This is known as a ‘deadlock’ letter. Once you have received this, you will be able to take your dispute to an Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) scheme. You are also able to take your dispute to an ADR scheme if it remains unresolved after a period of 12 weeks after the date you first complained.



Every service provider is obliged to belong to an ADR scheme. This is an important piece of consumer protection as ADR’s are free and independent services available to residential or small business (10 or less employees) consumers. Service providers must abide by an ADR’s decision. You are not bound by this decision and if dissatisfied with the outcome, you are free to consider legal action.



Virgin Media Ltd is a member of Communications & Internet Services Adjudication Scheme (CISAS) for the purpose of ADR. CISAS can be contacted at CISAS, 24 Angel Gate, City Road, London, EC1V 2PT, Phone 020 7520 3827, Email: info@cisas.org.uk Website: www.cisas.org.uk



Ofcom does not have regulatory control over the quality of customer service that is provided by any telecoms company. However, Ofcom does record all complaints that we receive under relevant categories and against the particular provider. This helps us to identify trends in issues of general consumer concern. If we notice a particular increase in similar complaints against the same provider then we will raise this with the company.



We hope this information is of help but if you do require further advice, you can refer to our website www.ofcom.org.uk or phone the Ofcom Advisory Team on 0300 123 3333 or 020 7981 3040, quoting the Ofcom reference number at the top of this letter.

BenMcr
24-11-2008, 20:06
I can't find any reference to ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk anywhere?

john coley
24-11-2008, 20:34
Hi. My two previous posts regarding it are called respectively long standing ubr overload and ubr oversubscribing. I'd started this as a new thread as those two posts were a week ago, and I didn't want people, including myself to have to hunt for info on it. As far as the email from my contact in retententions goes I considered posting the text of the email, but decided in the event that as it's a virgin media forum it may be pulled so just referred to it.
Thanks again,
John.

BenMcr
24-11-2008, 20:39
No I meant the actual name of the ubr I can't find.

I thought the hostname would be more like "camd-cmts-01.blueyonder.net"

john coley
24-11-2008, 20:50
Hi, I'm pasting this from my connection information screen. Below my IP it says host followed by my IP and the following
cable.ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk
Thanks again,
John.

xspeedyx
24-11-2008, 20:52
Where you looking Ben?

BenMcr
24-11-2008, 20:54
Hmm. Knowsley must work differently to Langley/Bromley

I know there is relief work going on this month in Camden though

xspeedyx
24-11-2008, 20:58
From what I can see the work should have been done

john coley
24-11-2008, 21:06
Hi Ben, on the link called connection on the forum page. Am I looking in the wrong place? Let me know and I'll let you know what it says.
thanks again,
John.

xspeedyx
24-11-2008, 21:07
Hi Ben, on the link called connection on the forum page. Am I looking in the wrong place? Let me know and I'll let you know what it says.
thanks again,
John.

Mine says dud ubr05

john coley
24-11-2008, 21:18
Hi Ben, mine in that case would be ubr01.camd. I just pasted what it said in its entirity.
John.

xspeedyx
24-11-2008, 21:23
According to what I have seen is the UBR has had the work done already in this month contact support via the newsgroups and see what they say as they can confirm what I have said

john coley
24-11-2008, 21:50
Hi. If it's been upgraded, besides there being no difference neither my retentions contact, the text of whose email, received this afternoon I've pasted below knows, nor a tech support manager I was speaking with at five o'clock. I've emailed her to ask her to check. Have you any idea when it's supposed to have been done?
John.
Hi John,

I appreciate it's frustrating when you're just waiting for other people to get information for you. I do have some conclusive information now, however, I'm afraid it isn't good.

I've been advised that the UBR your modem is connected to is infact not on the agenda for being upgraded this year. Further to that, there are no current plans to upgrade it next year either. Although, this is not to say it won't happen, only that plans do not exist to do it at this present moment.

BenMcr
24-11-2008, 22:28
If ubr01 means what I think it means then the relief work should have been done a couple of weeks ago.

There are a few connections in Camden that have no date, but that is more likely that they have only just become oversubscribed.

john coley
24-11-2008, 23:24
Hi Ben, I've just been onto tech support. I asked about the ubr upgrade and he said that the date I'd been given of 10th November was probably just a placeholder. He said that my channel snr, which is 18 should be a lot higher. He got onto second line who are going hopefully to sort it. As far as the ubr upgrade goes he couldn't say when it may happen, but said perhaps early next year. Maybe when they've done that it'll make a difference.
Thanks again,
John.

chickendippers
25-11-2008, 01:01
He got onto second line who are going hopefully to sort it.
That's the typical BS they use to get you off the line, I've had that used loads of times and never received the promised call back. Only way I've found is to use the virginmedia.support.broadband.cable newsgroup (http://www.virginmedia.com/customers/newsgroups/).

john coley
25-11-2008, 02:50
Thanks. I'll check it out.
John.

Welshchris
26-11-2008, 22:28
i had same prob in the UBR in the area i used to live in Problem started in Nov 07 and was finally fixed in April 2008 after multiple complaints to ISPA.

I was on 20mb and was getting 3.9mb max.

john coley
26-11-2008, 22:59
Hi Chris, I've entered another complaint. This time tech support did it for me, so were able to include a lot of technical detail. I followed that up with an email to a manager in CEO. They have to remember that a contract isn't unilateral. They have an obligation to ensure that their equipment is properly maintained and up to standard, and that it is able to provide the service they are charging for. It's disgusting that a company can get away with what, in effect is dishonest trading.
John.

broadbandking
27-11-2008, 10:48
Thats contracts for you and there is a upto clause that you have to be aware of, its not right but it happens and until regs get involved then your stuck with it

john coley
27-11-2008, 11:28
Hi, thanks for replying. Legally "up to" only refers to the inevitable fluctuations of the internet. It doesn't allow an ISP to fail in their duty to update and maintain their equipment. It only refers to things outside their control. Also, if they wished to rely on that it would only at best apply to the nearest tier above. For instance, if an isp had a 2 meg, a 10 meg and a 20 meg and the customer was getting 15 megs on a 20 meg package that would be reasonable, but if they were only getting 3 megs it wouldn't. Only if the customer were on a 4 meg package and getting 3 would that be reasonable.
John.

broadbandking
27-11-2008, 11:32
Hi, thanks for replying. Legally "up to" only refers to the inevitable fluctuations of the internet. It doesn't allow an ISP to fail in their duty to update and maintain their equipment. It only refers to things outside their control. Also, if they wished to rely on that it would only at best apply to the nearest tier above. For instance, if an isp had a 2 meg, a 10 meg and a 20 meg and the customer was getting 15 megs on a 20 meg package that would be reasonable, but if they were only getting 3 megs it wouldn't. Only if the customer were on a 4 meg package and getting 3 would that be reasonable.
John.

It also does state in the contract that speed are depentant on capcity and contention so the upto clause can be used however they want as they dont give you a idea of the speed that you will always get they just say upto

john coley
27-11-2008, 12:03
That is only the case if their equipment is up to standard. Were they using equipment designed to take the required throughput would those factors come into play. Their only course, should they want to avoid their responsibilities in that regard would be to take actual speeds out of the equation, for instance just say "whatever is available in your area". Of course, were they to do that people would vote with their feet and go to an isp who quoted an actual figure. As it stands they must ensure that their equipment is commensurate with the required throughput.
Further to this your argument only holds any water at best if there is no fault. Where there is an acknowledged fault the provider has a duty to repair that fault. If that involves upgrading their equipment that they must do.
John.

BenMcr
27-11-2008, 12:13
And as I said earlier, according to the information I saw, the upgrades were/are scheduled in for November.

Network planning isn't as straightforward as it seems. There has to be a trade off between cost and capacity. Sometimes this means they have be reactive to oversubscription rather than proactive

broadbandking
27-11-2008, 12:50
And as I said earlier, according to the information I saw, the upgrades were/are scheduled in for November.

Network planning isn't as straightforward as it seems. There has to be a trade off between cost and capacity. Sometimes this means they have be reactive to oversubscription rather than proactive

You can understand why the customer is annoyed tho I have same issue with my UBR well thats what support said

BenMcr
27-11-2008, 12:53
I'm not saying I can't understand the frustration, I do.

But to say that Virgin aren't using to correct equipment is not accurate.

broadbandking
27-11-2008, 13:06
It is well Known alot of areas that was brought by NTL are outdated and need a massive upgrade so the equipment isnt incorrect but outdated

Impz2002
27-11-2008, 13:18
its not a question of the equipment being outdated its purely due to the capacity being overloaded.

broadbandking
27-11-2008, 13:36
If the equipment was outdated the capacity would be better

john coley
27-11-2008, 14:24
So second line are wrong then? It's not just me saying the equipment is outdated and under resourced. Second line are, and not only one, in which case you may say it was just a personal opinion, but currently six senior second line techs. Are you saying that they, who are in possession of all the relevant information are all wrong?
John.

---------- Post added at 01:24 ---------- Previous post was at 01:14 ----------

It's really irrelevant whether it is in fact outdated or simply not commensurate with the throughput it needs to carry. As it stands, and this is what second line have said, the UBR's were designed at a time when current speeds weren't even dreamt of. By saying, as you have, that the equipment hasn't the capacity you're saying exactly the same thing only in different words.
John.

BenMcr
27-11-2008, 14:39
Never said they were wrong.

However, if it is only since it has become Virgin that the investment needed HAS been put in to address the issue of 'black' uBRs. But you can only buy, plan and install so much at once.

john coley
27-11-2008, 15:24
Hi Ben, granted they can't be expected to do everything at once. As long as they are not in denial and do the work as soon as they possibly can, and in the meantime compensate customers on the affected ubr's so they're not being ripped off.
I've pasted here part of an email I've just had from CEO in response to my complaint about the problem. I hope everyone similarly affected insists on similar treatment.
John.
Hi John


I refer to your letter sent on 12/11/2008 regarding the complaint you
made with Virgin Media. Please accept my apology for any inconvenience
caused.

I can confirm we have credited your account £180.00 and have applied a
discount of £8.00 for 12 months and will carry forward if your problem
is still happening. I will make sure I do some feedback on this issue.

Impz2002
27-11-2008, 15:31
If the equipment was outdated the capacity would be better

How does that make sense ? all the VM equipment conforms to DOCSIS. It may need to be re-segmented or have some additional line cards put in the UBR but its still DOCSIS kit so will perform to the DOCSIS specs.

broadbandking
27-11-2008, 16:29
I meant not outdated, if it was upto date then equipment would handle the demand more as it will be better built

Impz2002
27-11-2008, 16:51
I think your missing the point im trying to get across here. The equipment in the UBR conforms to DOCSIS standards and is therefore up to date. The problem with the UBR mentioned is that it is over-subscribed. A UBR has a finite resource of bandwith which it shares between its users and if there are too many people connected to that UBR the bandwith available is not sufficient for all the users to download/upload at the same time and this is the reason there are problems. Installing newer kit in the UBR would not solve the problem it needs additional equipment installed that will effectively re-segment the UBR. A new DOCSIS line card would not make any difference if it still had the same amount of users to serve so the way VM could fix the issue is by installing additional equipment.

I dont think its fair to say VM are running on knackered old equipment as this isnt the case. Sure the equipment may be a few years old but it still conforms to the standards that operate on the network so its age is irrelevant as any new kit would be run on the same protocols as the exsisting stuff.

Impz

General Maximus
27-11-2008, 17:09
a good example would be a road. Imagine trying to travel down to London on a single lane road. There is nothing wrong with the road, it just can't handle the amount of traffic on it. So we built a motorway with 4 lanes to allow greater throughput and relieve the pressure. Everyone now travels at 80mph down 4 lanes instead of being stuck in a traffic jam at 10 mph.

There is nothing wrong with the equipment they are using, they just need more of it to cope with the traffic :)

john coley
27-11-2008, 18:21
Staying with your analagy they should build that motorway, and compensate affected customers fully until it has been done. There's no getting away from the fact that Virgin Media are charging for a service they cannot currently provide.
John.

broadbandking
27-11-2008, 18:33
It would be nice to see a list of current overloaded UBR's I wonder how many are in need of a upgrade

Noggo
27-11-2008, 18:48
It would be nice to see a list of current overloaded UBR's I wonder how many are in need of a upgrade

It will be tttttttttttooooooooooooooooo lllllllllllllooooooonnnnnnnnnnggggggggggg and you're scroll button on the mouse would give up the ghost before getting to the bottom of the list :D.

only jokin'


Start a thread off then? Asking peeps if the UBR they're connected to has been confirmed by tech staff as oversubscribed + post the given `subject to change' fix date if they know it. See how many different locations there are.

I think all the UBR's are listed here, at the bottom of the page:
http://help2.virginmedia.com/help/getContent.jspx?page=h_internet_advanced_dns

Impz2002
28-11-2008, 09:39
It would be nice to see a list of current overloaded UBR's I wonder how many are in need of a upgrade

You will never see an "official VM List" as that would be commercial suicide and we all know VM like to sign up as many customers as possible even if the capacity isnt there !

broadbandking
28-11-2008, 09:48
The only thing we can hope for once DOCSIS 3.0 is fully rolled out the speeds will be alot better

whydoIneedatech
28-11-2008, 10:02
It would be nice to see a list of current overloaded UBR's I wonder how many are in need of a upgrade

Never going to happen for the reasons below
You will never see an "official VM List" as that would be commercial suicide and we all know VM like to sign up as many customers as possible even if the capacity isnt there !

broadbandking
28-11-2008, 10:09
why did you post a post with two quotes LOL

whydoIneedatech
28-11-2008, 10:24
why did you post a post with two quotes LOL
To save posting twice

broadbandking
28-11-2008, 10:29
sorry didnt see "Never going to happen for the reasons below"

whydoIneedatech
28-11-2008, 10:31
sorry didnt see "Never going to happen for the reasons below"
I was in the middle of editing it to include that and got a distraction if you follow my drift:D

broadbandking
28-11-2008, 10:43
What my microwave isnt working LOL

john coley
28-11-2008, 18:49
On the subject of ubr01.camd I have an update. Three days ago a tech support contact identified a problem with the channel snr. It was 18, much too low. The channel snr was sorted the night before last, and is now 31. I have noticed a massive increase in speed, and would be interested to know if others on the ubr are finding similar improvement.
John.

BenMcr
28-11-2008, 19:09
So not oversubscription then? ;)

john coley
28-11-2008, 23:31
yes it is. the channel snr was a secondary issue making things even worse.
John.

General Maximus
28-11-2008, 23:48
so what speeds are you getting now? have you touched your full 20mbit yet?

john coley
29-11-2008, 00:06
not the full 20, but 19.4, which isn't bad. To give you an idea of the jump, which happened on the night of the 26th/27th speed went from 3.5 mbps to 19.10. I'd sent my speed test results, all 225 of them to my contact in tech support. She compared the results against the graph, and it matches. So much for them generally having a downer on speed tests. She's disgusted at the treatment I've had and the pathetic offer I've had from them, and is helping me with another complaint. The extra effect the snr had was that instead of the high tx load only slowing me down in the evenings I was permanently slow. The slowest was in mid october, when it hit 0.11 mbps. I'm hoping that now the snr's been sorted it stays ok for a while.
John.

Stabhappy
29-11-2008, 00:12
I am absolutley amazed these things arent checked automatically - everyone on your UBR will have had the same issue, for months!

john coley
29-11-2008, 00:54
Yes they will. I hope, if them are on here they see this thread, realize why they've been slowed to a crawl and contact me. I was talking to my tech support contact today about exactly that. She's taking a great interest in this thread, and I'm emailing posts to her so that she can keep an eye on things. She said that this was the worse she's seen in her 7 years with the company.
I hope all the affected people will put in complaints and make sure they get back what they're owed.
John.

---------- Post added at 11:54 ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 ----------

If only Virgin thought about it checking channel snr, although it wouldn't let them off upgrading ubr's it could well buy them time. I was amazed at the difference it made.
John.

BenMcr
29-11-2008, 01:07
I would have expected snr to be if not a basic, then definately a second line check.

I apologise if any of my posts were annoying, I just would have expected them to run all checks they could before 'You'll have to wait for relief work'

broadbandbug
29-11-2008, 19:51
Hi, thanks for replying. I have already reported the matter to Ofcom. As the information in their reply will be of use generally I've pasted the text here.
Thanks again,
John.
13 November 2008







Dear Mr Coley

Virgin Media Ltd


Thank you for your email to Ofcom regarding the above company.



I was sorry to read about the problems you have been experiencing and I can confirm that a record of your complaint has been made here at Ofcom. This will feed into the statistics that we collate to help us monitor trends in consumer concerns.



I appreciate that you have approached us for help but Ofcom does not become involved in settling disputes that consumers have with their service providers. Ofcom’s role is about encouraging the communications industry to take ownership in addressing and resolving these.



If you have already contacted Virgin Media Ltd and feel you have been dealt with poorly or unreasonably, you can ask for your complaint to be taken to a higher level. Information on how to go about this can be found in your service provider’s code of practice which should detail their full complaints procedure. Some service providers also print complaint information on the back of their phone bills.



By following your service provider’s complaints procedure, it is likely you will be able to resolve your dispute. If you have exhausted the complaints procedure and you remain unhappy, you should request that your service provider sends you a letter which outlines their final position. This is known as a ‘deadlock’ letter. Once you have received this, you will be able to take your dispute to an Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) scheme. You are also able to take your dispute to an ADR scheme if it remains unresolved after a period of 12 weeks after the date you first complained.



Every service provider is obliged to belong to an ADR scheme. This is an important piece of consumer protection as ADR’s are free and independent services available to residential or small business (10 or less employees) consumers. Service providers must abide by an ADR’s decision. You are not bound by this decision and if dissatisfied with the outcome, you are free to consider legal action.



Virgin Media Ltd is a member of Communications & Internet Services Adjudication Scheme (CISAS) for the purpose of ADR. CISAS can be contacted at CISAS, 24 Angel Gate, City Road, London, EC1V 2PT, Phone 020 7520 3827, Email: info@cisas.org.uk Website: www.cisas.org.uk



Ofcom does not have regulatory control over the quality of customer service that is provided by any telecoms company. However, Ofcom does record all complaints that we receive under relevant categories and against the particular provider. This helps us to identify trends in issues of general consumer concern. If we notice a particular increase in similar complaints against the same provider then we will raise this with the company.



We hope this information is of help but if you do require further advice, you can refer to our website www.ofcom.org.uk or phone the Ofcom Advisory Team on 0300 123 3333 or 020 7981 3040, quoting the Ofcom reference number at the top of this letter.

Your best bet is via the ISPA.. They have a code of practise with regards to response etc from VM.. So if you complain to them they will contact VM and deal directly with them on your behalf.

john coley
29-11-2008, 21:30
I'll look them up.
Thanks,
John.