View Full Version : Free road tax for everyone.
Got my car tax renewal form in the post and there's a free draw to win a SEAT ibiza. it falls under tax band A so costs nothing to tax it every year?
They say that the government wants to encourage low CO2 emission vehicles, and that's why they're giving away these cars in the draw.
What if everyone was to go out and buy one of these cars today, so every car on the road was free tax. where's the money going to come from then, and will they go back on their encouraging of people to own road tax free cars?
and why should those who don't own one of these cars pay anything when others have to? I always remembered that road tax was to fund the roads in making and repairing them. are they now saying that you don't have to pay towards this cost if you own a SEAT ibiza?
There is no road tax in France. But I'm sure they make money in other ways, tolls on roads, etc.
There is no road tax in France. But I'm sure they make money in other ways, tolls on roads, etc.
That's the point I'm trying to make. the government say they want us all to go green and throw away our cars and get these other cars that mean we don't have to pay any road tax at all. but really they don't want us to go green because they wouldn't get any money coming in.
and I can guarantee that if we were all to go green and get one of these cars that you pay no road tax on at all, then we will all have a new tax to make up the money that they are now not getting because we've all gone green.
What's really amazing is that the SEAT is actually a diesel :D
I'd much rather they got rid of road tax and put it on petrol instead... That way it really is a pay as you go, takes into account the higher petrol users and is fair for everyone.
joglynne
22-11-2008, 12:43
In theory I guess what you are talking about could happen. I practice I would say that that it won't happen in our life times.
The cars that are on the road now, and majority of those currently being built and designed with more efficient engines, will be on our roads for many years to come and the very best we can hope IMO is that the high CO2 emission vehicles will be come a thing of the past.
It would be interesting if anyone could predict when we might reach the tipping point when there were more of the nil tax, very low CO2 emission, vehicles on our roads than tax paying vehicles.
papa smurf
22-11-2008, 12:56
gordy can give tax cuts without worry cos he knows his party wont be around to pick up the pieces , 15 -20 years needed to sort out the uk [under the tories] a head , and by then oil will just be a memory, i am all for road fund if its spent on the roads i hate pot holes.
idi banashapan
22-11-2008, 13:05
There is no road tax in France. But I'm sure they make money in other ways, tolls on roads, etc.
over here they want to tax us AND make us pay tolls. Oh, and city-driving-tax (also known as 'congestion charge').
What's really amazing is that the SEAT is actually a diesel :D
Diesel is the the new clean and green.
I'd much rather they got rid of road tax and put it on petrol instead... That way it really is a pay as you go, takes into account the higher petrol users and is fair for everyone.
They should do, and they probably will when we all pay no road tax at all.
Stop road tax, and just put a couple of pence on the price of fuel... that way EVERYONE has to pay. Plus the more miles you do, and the higher your fuel consumption, the more you pay. Seems very logical to me.
And turn the tax disk into an MOT/Insurance disk...
DVLA has wanted to do this for years, but HMG refuses to do it...
Got my car tax renewal form in the post and there's a free draw to win a SEAT ibiza. it falls under tax band A so costs nothing to tax it every year?
They say that the government wants to encourage low CO2 emission vehicles, and that's why they're giving away these cars in the draw.
What if everyone was to go out and buy one of these cars today, so every car on the road was free tax. where's the money going to come from then, and will they go back on their encouraging of people to own road tax free cars?
and why should those who don't own one of these cars pay anything when others have to? I always remembered that road tax was to fund the roads in making and repairing them. are they now saying that you don't have to pay towards this cost if you own a SEAT ibiza?
If that was to happen they would have to up the road tax on that car, like the cars that are exempt from congestion charge ect, eventually when more of these vehicles are on the road we will start paying more. The idea is to encourage us to get much cleaner cars ect but reality is the government needs the money to squander on the benefit system that comes out of road tax as well. Just a big lie really. If we where to have engines running on water, there would be massive tax hikes on water just the same regardless of how clean transport is, THEY NEED YOUR CASH AT WHATEVER COST.
---------- Post added at 15:34 ---------- Previous post was at 15:28 ----------
Stop road tax, and just put a couple of pence on the price of fuel... that way EVERYONE has to pay. Plus the more miles you do, and the higher your fuel consumption, the more you pay. Seems very logical to me.
And turn the tax disk into an MOT/Insurance disk...
DVLA has wanted to do this for years, but HMG refuses to do it...
Nice idea, but i think this comes down to envy,as most people think,"It's the rich people with big cars who do all the driving they can afford it". Reality is that the average person on average wages will be hit hardest by these sort of schemes. It's the i don't drive alot so why should i pay for the roads, well we all benefit regardless of how much we drive or not to have a system that dosen't just punish those who drive more than others is stupid. Our hole lifestyle relies on cheap transport and a fair system of paying for the roads.
demented
22-11-2008, 15:54
Got my car tax renewal form in the post and there's a free draw to win a SEAT ibiza. it falls under tax band A so costs nothing to tax it every year?
Bicyles are also zero rated. I don't see people getting on them, even for the occasional trip. When Band A was originally rolled out there were quite literally hardly any cars to go into the category.
They say that the government wants to encourage low CO2 emission vehicles, and that's why they're giving away these cars in the draw.
Don't know about that. Seems a reasonable idea to me if it is.
What if everyone was to go out and buy one of these cars today, so every car on the road was free tax. where's the money going to come from then, and will they go back on their encouraging of people to own road tax free cars?
That would be a lovely problem to have. Governments have banged heads together and tried to get the vast majority of new vehicles produced to be below 160g/km. Progress has been slow on this. Although in Europe there is a vibrant small car market, in some senses medium sized cars are dying out and people are going for very large cars/MPVs/SUVs. The answer to your question is the system will almost certainly be modified in the future as more people drive more fuel efficient cars. Since Gordon Brown introduced tiered VED (his best and most radical policy imho) a number of significant changes have already happened. Band G was introduced recently and for the new system from 2009/10 onwards the original bands have been squished downwards and many extra bands added in. There is also the idea of what you pay in the first year and in the second year. So I think when we do get down the average car being say <110g/km they will have already complete rejigged the bands so people with newer technology are paying less. I suspect secondary benefits like using some of these cars free in the congestion zones (by which time every city in the land will probably have one) will have been revoked too.
and why should those who don't own one of these cars pay anything when others have to? I always remembered that road tax was to fund the roads in making and repairing them. are they now saying that you don't have to pay towards this cost if you own a SEAT ibiza?
What the current policy says is that lower emissions and fuel efficiency are so important that they out trump other areas such as repairs. The theory is that with oil prices having been so low for such a long time and the cost of motoring falling that people pay virtually no attention to how efficient a car is. If someone was thinking of buying a car and it had £400 ved whereas one of it's competitors was £50 then they might lean towards the more clean and efficient car. There is also the matter of car fleets and company cars. Many rental schemes disproportionately make you "go large" in a sense by having smaller differentials between middling and premium cars than you would get in real life to drum up business. VED for car fleets is very important as after some use they get sold onto second hand buyers. This makes up a fair chunk of the market. I have no problem combining ved/mot into one entity but I disagree very strongly with abolishing VED and just adding some marginal amount onto petrol instead. I think that would be an unpopular policy so if ved was scrapped I would say something like an additional 70p/l in tax would be a fair trade in.
I'd much rather they got rid of road tax and put it on petrol instead... That way it really is a pay as you go, takes into account the higher petrol users and is fair for everyone.
I've always thought this would be a good idea that would actually work... So the chances of Government doing it will be zero.
keithwalton
22-11-2008, 16:44
I'd much rather they got rid of road tax and put it on petrol instead... That way it really is a pay as you go, takes into account the higher petrol users and is fair for everyone.
They are as good as doing this already, just compare your annual fuel duty bill compared to your road tax bill.
An example I do 6000 miles per year roughly, and for arguments sake average 30mpg (mix of city and motorway) so thats 200 gallons of fuel per year.
Fuel duty (not vat) is 53.6ppl for petrol and 57 for diesel thats £2.41 and £2.56 per gallon respectively.
so for 200 gallons thats £482 / year in duty nevermind the vat on the duty!
compare that to the road tax of £185/year. Quite abit higher!
The co2 bands are indeed a moving target and when the low one first came out there was indeed almost no cars that could make it under the limit.
Out of interest its actually quite easy to create a low co2 vehicle, turn down / remove the cat, of course the other emissions go up but nobody is bothered about them anymore!
A random fact car makers are not allowed to sell them as 'green' hence why there is entire ranges of 'blue' cars these days
That's the point I'm trying to make. the government say they want us all to go green and throw away our cars and get these other cars that mean we don't have to pay any road tax at all. but really they don't want us to go green because they wouldn't get any money coming in.
and I can guarantee that if we were all to go green and get one of these cars that you pay no road tax on at all, then we will all have a new tax to make up the money that they are now not getting because we've all gone green.
They set taxes based on predictions of how much money those taxes will bring in. They can afford to zero-rate the least polluting cars because they know not enough people will get them to affect the overall tax take. But over time, as the tax does its job, raising the profile of less polluting cars and encouraging more people to buy them, then they will simply reduce the tax advantage of having one and eventually remove it altogether.
Using tax to change behaviour in this way is nothing new - it happens all the time.
I drive a CO2 neutral car yet have to pay £200 a year to tax it.
Ok I don't pay fuel duty, but still, c'mon, I'm "greener" than the Seat :)
The high end cars will pay more tax as the greener cars get a foothold, when all the high end cars are no more the tax levels will be reviewed and all bands will be back to paying some sort of tax, its inevitable.
haydnwalker
24-11-2008, 09:11
I drive a CO2 neutral car yet have to pay £200 a year to tax it.
Ok I don't pay fuel duty, but still, c'mon, I'm "greener" than the Seat :)
Is it a Prius by chance? As this is far from CO2 neutral... Its still got a petrol engine that chucks out CO2 :) If you use it in town as electric only then thats possibly cutting your CO2 by up to 50% but thats all (for a couple of miles until the battery dies and the engine engages to charge it up).
If its not a prius (or a G-Wiz) then does it plant a tree for you every 100 yards? ;)
---------- Post added at 09:11 ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 ----------
What happens when batteries/fuel cells become so reliable that everyone is using them. I can see a HMG Battery/FuelCell tax then :)
Is it a Prius by chance? As this is far from CO2 neutral... Its still got a petrol engine that chucks out CO2 :) If you use it in town as electric only then thats possibly cutting your CO2 by up to 50% but thats all (for a couple of miles until the battery dies and the engine engages to charge it up).
If its not a prius (or a G-Wiz) then does it plant a tree for you every 100 yards? ;)
---------- Post added at 09:11 ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 ----------
What happens when batteries/fuel cells become so reliable that everyone is using them. I can see a HMG Battery/FuelCell tax then :)
Xantia running off vegetable oil IIRC.
Of course I'm wondering how many folk out there are driving unregistered,untaxed,uninsured polluting death traps..too fast and under the influence of booze and waccy baccy...;)
bmxbandit
24-11-2008, 09:44
...whilst talking on their mobiles, presumably? :p:
and applying their make up..:D
Is it a Prius by chance?
I think it's an old Citroen with a tank full of veg oil ...
Local yobs and "poor" families have mostly been trading in their old bangers for 4x4's that are saturating the market at very low prices. They'll probably never get taxed or insured, or even MOT tested.
So instead of hot hatches hurtling around the roads we have 4x4's plodding around.. and not just on the roads now!
I think it's an old Citroen with a tank full of veg oil ...
Got 3 of them now :D
etccarmageddon
25-11-2008, 21:18
bet you stink like a chippy!
papa smurf
25-11-2008, 21:36
I drive a CO2 neutral car yet have to pay £200 a year to tax it.
Ok I don't pay fuel duty, but still, c'mon, I'm "greener" than the Seat :)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2312521.stm
you should read the last two lines.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2312521.stm
you should read the last two lines.
He didn't say he planned to evade the tax :p:
joglynne
25-11-2008, 21:59
Exempt producers/users
If you have produced or used less than 2,500 litres of:
* any biofuel
* any other fuel substitute or additive
within the last 12 months, and expect to produce or use less than 2,500 litres in the next 12 months, you are an exempt producer and do not need to register with us and account for duty.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/excise-duty/brief1108.htm
papa smurf
25-11-2008, 22:03
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/excise-duty/brief1108.htm
does filling a shopping trolley at tesco count as "production" ?
joglynne
25-11-2008, 22:12
I think so, though I believe you get a better deal at CostCo. :D
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2312521.stm
you should read the last two lines.
You should read the date of the article.
SMHarman
26-11-2008, 00:27
Diesel is the the new clean and green.Yeah, it puts out NOX instead.
Yeah, it puts out NOX instead.
spray urine into the exhaust then ;) (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/13/mercedes-benz-launching-urea-injected-diesel-suvs-this-fall/)
also make the car fart up it's own nose (ie don't disable the egr)
Some real green car information:
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/
Click 'Downloads' to get a spreadsheet containing the fuel consumption and emissions of all current UK cars.
papa smurf
26-11-2008, 16:55
You should read the date of the article.
my apologies for trying to keep you out of trouble, i thought all fuel carried a tax .
my apologies for trying to keep you out of trouble, i thought all fuel carried a tax .
One of the things the government were forced to do was remove the duty on biofuels and make them cheaper than fossil fuels as they were in breach of the Kyoto agreement (and low level users like myself were costing them too much in processing our duty payments too).
Took them until the 1st July last year to do it though, and still left us with a 2500L limit per financial year (ok that's over 20,000 miles in my car), at which point they make
SMHarman
28-11-2008, 19:10
make?
make?
Not sure what happened there....
Let me check the tapes.
Ah..
....it cheaper to use fossil fuels. So all those long distance drivers, the ones who produce the most CO2 a year, are being encouraged to increase CO2 levels.
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