UBR oversubscribing

[john coley]

Hi everybody, since my recent post regarding UBR oversubscription I have read many posts from people on oversubscribed UBR's. Under Sale of Goods and Service legislation the seller of a product has a duty to ensure that the product is of the required standard and conforms to its description. Virgin media is demonstrably failing in this regard. Their equipment should be of a specification commensurate with the number of customers connected to it, having regard to the internet packages connected customers have, and the resultant traffic levels. It is not sufficient simply to connect customers to the network regardless of available resources. To sell a package of 20 mbps, and expecting customers on over-subscribed UBR's to put up with an extremely sub-standard service is unfair and in all probability against the law.
Virgin Media's terms and conditions says that Virgin are not responsible for performance due to the ups and downs of the internet, but that is not the case with UBR oversubscription. That is nothing to do with the ups and downs of the internet. Virgin media's equipment is, without exception or qualification Virgin media's responsibility.
John.

[Turkey Machine]

ISP legislation in general is failing big time, specifically with over-subscription, but in other areas too, like mis-advertising, throttling etc. Ofcom need to clamp down on it, but they won't unless there's enough support for it from the consumers. The ISPs would be up in arms if all of a sudden they were forced to provide the speed they're providing, because the bandwidth simply isn't there to support the number of customers they have at maximum speed. ;) However, they can get away with it because they advertise an "up to xxMbit" connection, and IMO that should be outlawed and you given a specific speed you can download at, and outlawing oversubscription would be a really good move on Ofcom's part.

[mentalis]

Am I imagining it (or just wishful thinking), but wasn't there something a while ago about an ISP could advertise 'up to XXMb/s', but that they also have to provide an average figure as well: You can get up to 8Mb/s, but you will probably get 2Mb/s?

[xspeedyx]

Am I imagining it (or just wishful thinking), but wasn't there something a while ago about an ISP could advertise 'up to XXMb/s', but that they also have to provide an average figure as well: You can get up to 8Mb/s, but you will probably get 2Mb/s?

That was around 2 months ago and the ISP's have around 6 months to do it

[john coley]

Hi, I would have thought that legally the phrase "up to" would only be referring to factors beyond their immediate control, quality and age of cabling and things of that nature. If the service quality is reduced due to over subscription it is unarguably unfair trading, since they are actively by doing that reducing available resources. they are selling a product they know full well they can't supply.
Were they to be honest the products they offered would vary dependent on area. What counts with Virgin Media is cold hard cash. I am on 20 meg, and for much of the time during the day am getting below 4 megs. That demonstrates the available resources, that 4 megs is available. However, Were I to downgrade to 4 megs I wouldn't get it, although the resources are there. They would reduce what I got proportionally.
It's dishonest trading, no better than a mock auction. I have lodged a complaint with Ofcom, and am also sounding out trading standards on the subject. I would suggest that everyone did likewise.
John.

---------- Post added at 20:54 ---------- Previous post was at 20:37 ----------

Hi, I'm sure I remember that, although like you I can't remember the details. Being blind I'm at something of a disadvantage though, since I can't see tv adverts, which may have been where you'd come across it. It's certainly an excellent idea. At least then people could make a conscious choice based on value for money.
Given that people choose ISP dependent on what they offer I would have thought that if an isp advertises a speed they know they can't supply in order to get custom away from the competition surely that would qualify as unfair competition?
John.