Poor Online Gaming experience (Vista +20MB) [Archive]

handsy

13-10-2008, 22:31

My online game is suffering from poor performance at home (fine at friends' house), and I'm after your help (forum members) to troubleshoot it (I'm in the Southampton area). When I say poor performance, I mean it pauses while moving/fighting then catches up (lag?), and it is very disruptive to gameplay.
This is a Ping grab while I'm having the problems:

Ping statistics for 207.211.84.33:
Packets: Sent = 1004, Received = 957, Lost = 47 (4% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 163ms, Maximum = 237ms, Average = 174ms

As you can see the loss is pretty darn bad, but latency is reasonable.
My setup = Vista PC, connected to Netgear WGT624v3, 20MB ntl:250 CM.

Problem has only been noticeable in last week since reinstalling Vista (coincidence?). However, Vista was on here before and all was well, so I'm not sure.
Speedtest.net last night showed downstream speed of just 4.5Mb/s !!! Tonight it is at 12.6Mb/s (still not great).

Any help from anyone appreciated.

Thanks

Info from my CM:

Cable Modem Downstream
Downstream Lock : Locked
Downstream Channel Id : 7
Downstream Frequency : 586750000 Hz
Downstream Modulation : QAM64
Downstream Symbol Rate : 6952 Ksym/sec
Downstream Interleave Depth : taps12Increment17
Downstream Receive Power Level : -5.2 dBmV
Downstream SNR : 35.6 dB

Cable Modem Upstream
Upstream Lock : Locked
Upstream Channel ID : 4
Upstream Frequency : 46200000 Hz
Upstream Modulation : QPSK
Upstream Symbol Rate : 2560 Ksym/sec
Upstream transmit Power Level : 47.5 dBmV
Upstream Mini-Slot Size : 2

cook1984

13-10-2008, 23:33

Stabhappy

14-10-2008, 00:15

It sounds like you're having stuttering problems, which isnt related to the network at all.

Also, cook, I get sub-20ms pings on most of my favourite servers - go figure.

handsy

14-10-2008, 08:12

It sounds like you're having stuttering problems, which isnt related to the network at all.

So what is it related to then?
The game works fine on other friends' VM CMs which go back to different UBRs.

Graham M

14-10-2008, 08:12

Also, cook, I get sub-20ms pings on most of my favourite servers - go figure.

Same, so his was a rash generalisation.

Ignitionnet

14-10-2008, 08:31

See how it performs on another machine if possible.
Try connecting directly to the modem without the router if you could.

If issue persists contact VM support, I note you're in Southampton which is not exactly a fabulous area.

VM is ok for gaming, its' only fault is that it has higher jitter than a number of DSL ISPs and pings can at times be slightly higher due to routing.

handsy

14-10-2008, 08:33

OK will do.....FYI, this issue has not happened before for me using the same hardware setup I've had for aaaaaaaaages!
The only thing I changed recently was reinstalling Vista, which must be a coincidence right as Vista has a much improved TCP stack over XP (so I've heard).

Ignitionnet

14-10-2008, 08:39

It does, but the TCP stack doesn't affect pings.

It's got to be done - VM support will ask you to do the same thing so if you preempt it might save some pain.

Also are you connecting to router over wireless, did you reboot modem or wireless router?

Avatis

14-10-2008, 08:56

I had the very same problem for about a week before I realised it was my Netgear router. It just got worse to a point where I would loose connection when the bandwidth came under any strain. I got a new router and its back working like a dream (I didnt get another Netgear as I had only had it a few months).

handsy

14-10-2008, 09:19

Cool, thanks Broadbandings.

Avatis, what router did you go with in the end?

Avatis

14-10-2008, 09:24

I got this one: http://www.currys.co.uk/martprd/store/cur_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1849380536.122397249 7@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccccadefghgefhgcflgceggdhhmdgmj.0&page=Product&fm=1&sm=7&tm=1&sku=386043&category_oid=

Cheap and works really well.

Graham M

14-10-2008, 09:27

"Rangerbuster" nice spelling Currys, yeah I have the same one, it's a nice piece of kit, shame it won't run DD-WRT

handsy

14-10-2008, 09:37

So is Linksys a recommended brand guys?
Looking around on this forum it would appear that Netgear is not well loved.

Avatis

14-10-2008, 09:42

I recommend it :D

I had the same model as you, its was only when I searched around the interwebz for issues with it I solved my problem. Its happened to a lot of people.

Hope it solves your problem :)

Plus if Cable forum team Graham M has it, it must be good ;)

handsy

14-10-2008, 09:50

Thoughts on this one - Buffalo WZR2-G300N ?
Very good price (cheaper than Linksys), and seems to be getting great reviews.

Bullfrog

14-10-2008, 10:01

I connect with ethernet direct to modem with a software (XP) firewall because a lot of games cant handle routers and I dont need to run a network, even quite recent games are not set up right and you have to mess about with port forwarding. Since each game has a different issue but all are solved by eliminating the router it is simpler in the long run just to ditch the router. Its easy enough to plug it back in.

To be fair I dont think that is VMs fault and it is the game developers responsibility.

handsy

14-10-2008, 10:23

Agreed, but more and more people (like myself) need a home network, therefore plugging your CM in to a router and connecting to router is becoming the norm.

mrmistoffelees

14-10-2008, 10:27

Have a look at this one.....

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/107217

With 5 working days delivery it comes to Ã‚Â£26.78

Horace

14-10-2008, 11:07

So is Linksys a recommended brand guys?
Looking around on this forum it would appear that Netgear is not well loved.

Anything that can run Tomato firmware like the WRT54GL (the L is important) is recommended, but that's my own preference.
Do a traceroute and you should be able to see where packets are being dropped, if not copy and paste it here.

handsy

14-10-2008, 11:30

Tomato firmware?? ;) What on earth ?

Stabhappy

14-10-2008, 13:34

Have a look at this one.....

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/107217

With 5 working days delivery it comes to Ã‚Â£26.78

NO. Absolutley not. I've got one on atm, and i'm filing for an RMA today. It's throughput for internet and it's own config page caps at 2000kb/s solid (so if you download at 2000kb/s, the router config transfers in BYTES per second.)

Also, if you leave it on for a fair while (over 4 hours, which is terrible) the speed throughput dips. I've seen it as low as 300kb/s, which isn't my internet as I'm quite capable of testing. Also, restart the router and it's straight back to 2000kb/s. When the throughput drops, you also get about 1500ms ping.

handsy

14-10-2008, 13:51

OK, thanks for headsup.
Currently looking on ebay for an old Linksys WRTG54S, as that Tomato firmware Horace mentions looks awesome :)

mrmistoffelees

14-10-2008, 13:54

NO. Absolutley not. I've got one on atm, and i'm filing for an RMA today. It's throughput for internet and it's own config page caps at 2000kb/s solid (so if you download at 2000kb/s, the router config transfers in BYTES per second.)

Also, if you leave it on for a fair while (over 4 hours, which is terrible) the speed throughput dips. I've seen it as low as 300kb/s, which isn't my internet as I'm quite capable of testing. Also, restart the router and it's straight back to 2000kb/s. When the throughput drops, you also get about 1500ms ping.

I'll stand corrected then ! Thanks for that, I thought they were reasonable, I was looking into purchasing one for something I have planned I wont bother now !!

Stabhappy

14-10-2008, 15:55

Sorry if my post was a bit rash or insulting, just wanted to make sure noone gets it as it'sbeen nothing but trouble

AmAtoL

14-10-2008, 18:50

I've got a D Link DIR 655 for VM which works brill and a Netgear DG834 for my UK Online which also works very well.
In the end it will be VM with stuttering etc, I used to have it all the time, not so now with UK Online :P
I know that sounds a bit unfounded but don't go chasing your tail for too long.

cook1984

14-10-2008, 23:14

Also, cook, I get sub-20ms pings on most of my favourite servers - go figure.

You are lucky then. If you live in an oversubscribed area there is precisely nothing you can do.

handsy

15-10-2008, 21:01

Aaaaaagggh! This is driving me nuts. Here's what I've tried:

1. Got VM to move me on to another Upstream - no difference
2. Connected PC direct to CM - no difference
3. Downgraded to XP and applied all TCP Optimiser stuff - no difference

Stuttering is making my game unplayable. I am not happy at all :(
Suggestions people please?

Thanks :)

Hom3r

15-10-2008, 21:13

VM is useless for gaming, especially in the evenings. Just give up, there is no fix other than changing ISP.

A while back I would have said that to looks like your area is heavily oversubscribed too, hence the poor speed test results. Now it just seems par for the course on VM.

I have no problems, I play Battlefield 2 on our server which is in Tampa, will no lag problems.

I have never had any lag on the 360 either

---------- Post added at 21:13 ---------- Previous post was at 21:12 ----------

Handsy where are you in the UK

handsy

15-10-2008, 21:15

That's great, but it doesn't help me sorry.
Anyone from VM ever read these forums?
I've now posted in the support NNTP newsgroup too so hopefully I'll get some more help.

Ignitionnet

15-10-2008, 21:20

They should be able to give you more answers. I don't think at first inspection it's oversubscription though, that gives a more stable latency, upstream network problem would explain the slow speeds also, packet loss does bad things to speeds.

Handsy is in Southampton, which has had its' share of issues historically.

handsy

15-10-2008, 21:57

More info from pingplotter here -> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/handsy/stutter.JPG

handsy

16-10-2008, 06:37

I'm starting to think it's VM's routing now.
My routed Transit point from VMs network seems to be Level3. The latency and packet loss increases there. My friends' CM routes out via a Sprint Transit link and he has no such trouble.
Now to try and get VM Cust Services to understand what I'm saying and get someone to re-route my subnet! :)

Ignitionnet

16-10-2008, 09:42

Our friend the traceroute shows an issue - I didn't realise what you were pinging was in the US, go me.

handsy

16-10-2008, 17:27

Looks like VM have opened a fault ticket for me via my newsgroup post:

"Hi handsy,
Apologies in delay of reply. As mentioned the loss is of our network. I
have passed it to our network team to see if there is anything we can do.
Reference : F000821049"

I'll keep you abreast of the situation :)
Thanx to all so far.

whydoIneedatech

16-10-2008, 17:33

handsy

16-10-2008, 20:08

I think I'm gonna cry....it is getting worse and worse:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/handsy/stutter4.JPG

handsy

18-10-2008, 13:07

Woah!
Check my latest awesome (sarcasm alert) connection from VM :
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/handsy/stutter7.JPG

Noggo

18-10-2008, 14:57

No problem here, apart from a little packet loss on the first stop off in New York:
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=17081&d=1224337136

I have notice your route goes through sprintlink again and getting you're packet loss on the Virgin Media network this time too. I had to put up with a similar problem for 9 months, as regards VM network packet loss, erratic latency and yo-yo download speeds until the local UBR got fixed. Now it's not too bad now with very little problems. I'm waiting till half term comes around in a weeks time and to see if it comes to a halt like normal school holidays, if it does I've really got to consider alternatives to be able to get it up and running ready for the Christmas break. It will kill me out able a game two Christmases in a row.

Jeepers

18-10-2008, 15:13

Try this i have had the same problem
rite click on your desk top select personilsation then click themes
selet clissic view from your themes ..then try your games vista takes a lot of resorses
and dissable any programs running in the background...

Elsie

18-10-2008, 15:22

My setup = Vista PC, connected to Netgear WGT624v3, 20MB ntl:250 CM.
I too have a Vista machine (Dell XPS 420), the same Netgear router and a NTL:250 modem on the 20mb service and my gaming experience is superb. Playing Battlefield 2 on UK servers my ping rarely goes above 20 and the average is usually between 15-20. I live in Derbyshire and I've never had a problem with gaming pings so I'm sorry that you do.

So this sweeping generalisation absolute rubbish IMO!
VM is useless for gaming, especially in the evenings. Just give up, there is no fix other than changing ISP.
Virgin, for me, is by far the best gaming / downloading internet I could get.

handsy

19-10-2008, 19:43

Noggo

19-10-2008, 21:01

I would have been a valid test if both done at the same time. The server is in California the west coast of the USA, so your mates test was done at off-peak UK and US (earlier Saturday morning here, midnight over in US) and your test is peak time UK and US (earlier Sunday evening here and midday Sunday US).

Still both yours and your mates Virgin Media's part of the route looks fine to me, all the problems are off VM's network State side, peak times by the looks of it.

cook1984

20-10-2008, 20:22

You guys don't understand, this is VM doing you a FAVOUR!

When you suck at a game you can just blame it on VM, and if it's a league match just rip the ethernet cable out and claim they disconnected you!

Honestly, some people show no gratitude for all the hard work they put in not upgrading their network. The fat cat's had to take a HUGE bonus just to keep your latency all over the place!!

Ignitionnet

20-10-2008, 20:37

OK, so this is weird now. A friend of mine who is also a VM customer in the Guildford area did a traceroute for me to the same IP as me.
My result is here -> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/handsy/compare1.JPG
His result is here -> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/handsy/compare2.JPG

As you can see we practically take the same route, but where I lose packets at hop 14, he does not! Explain that!?

There's no probs with your trace there - you've zero packet loss to the destination server.

That said you've clearly had some issues looking at the trace showing every hop dropping packets.

handsy

20-10-2008, 22:07

I now route via Sprint for one of my game server IPs, and "oh look!" more packet loss, and latency!
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/handsy/20081020.JPG

I am even seeing packet loss in VMs network too now, so I'm not gonna be fobbed off with "it's not our fault" anymore :(

I am THIS close to churning VM........sort it!