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View Full Version : Am I getting smarter or are our youths today getting dumber?


Watching You
09-10-2008, 13:10
I recently went into a supermarket to purchase a packet of crisps; price 48p, unfortunately there was a power cut. Our supermarket, not being one to loose sales because of no power, remained opened. Paying for this item I presented the young man with £1 coin. At which he called a supervisor, I was under the impression he was asking to get the till or cash register (if this is what they are called) open.

But no this youth of about 18 then asks: “what is the change from £1 for an item of 48p?” – I kid you not. I then half expected Jeremy Beadle to jump out from behind the counter, shouting, “you’ve been had!” This is despite the fact that he’s already passed away.

To cap it all, the guy who gave him the information was a foreign national, to which English and our decimal base currency were both new to him but yet even he could work out that if someone gives you a £1 coin for an item of 48p the change would be (answer at bottom of page)

Maybe I am getting old here but too many of these youths think that they are really intelligent and are capable of running Lehman Bros (OK, maybe 97% could have done a better job than Richard S Fuld) but many don’t know how to obtain basic information or ask questions.

One person I met a few years ago who told me he was one of the smarted people in his school, didn’t know how to write an enquiry letter and got all his information from ‘a mate’ who was an expert in everything instead of going directly to the source. This is a man who once claimed that insurance on a brand new sports car, fully comp would be no more than £300 for a driver of under 21, because his mate who worked in a garage as an apprentice to the apprentice mechanic (makes him an insurance expert) told him so. He also had ‘a mate’ who worked in Dixons part time that qualified him to be an expert and comment on all things electrical, technical. The same 'mate' who claimed no one would ever need anything bigger than 1 Gig computer.

I was taught that if you wanted to find out information that you contacted the source directly. At 11 I asked a question about the moonwalk and was made to write a letter directly to Nasa (who are still yet to answer).

When I left school in the late 70s we were treated like we were just average, nothing special, unless you had been to a grammar school. Fortunately, I went to University as a mature student, when one day I came to the conclusion that even the dumb kids in my school were much smarter than some of these so-called smart kids today, and came away with a BSc in Economics and Business Finance. Yet sorry to say that kids today are being conned if teachers are telling them they are all genius capable of anything.


Answer = 52p

peanut
09-10-2008, 13:18
Judging by spelling and grammar you see everyday, I'm inclined to agree with what you're saying.

Maybe people learn the skills to use things like calculators that do all the work for you but can't add 2 and 2 together on their own has something to so with things, I don't know.

Maybe kids are taught the answers that are in the exams only and nothing else?

bmxbandit
09-10-2008, 13:24
I often get the first one, as I tend to put a tiny bit of thought into what change I give people to minimise the number of coins I get back (e.g. if something costs £9.78 and I only have a tenner and change, I might give over £10.28). Cue blank looks...

Damien
09-10-2008, 13:31
What you have there are people who are simply stupid, not representative of the age group. You can find a lot of equally stupid people in the older age brackets

peanut
09-10-2008, 13:38
People will know a lot when they have google as their friend, but on their own you might get some kind of grunt from them.

Do you need to learn today to get by when you can get the answers to what you need in an instance? When kids do homework and use the net for answers are they actually learning?

Stuart
09-10-2008, 13:42
I think the problem is that our minds need exercising as much as the rest of our body. I find that if I don't have to use my mental arithmetic much, I have to think about answers to simple sums.

The problem occurs because we have technology to help us with these problems, and we use that technology too much. Combine that and the pressure our current government is putting on Schools and Unis to raise grades (note: they don't actually require us to raise standards, just the grades) and you'll find that educational establishments are increasingly allowing students to use technology to help in exams.

Damien
09-10-2008, 13:48
People will know a lot when they have google as their friend, but on their own you might get some kind of grunt from them.

Do you need to learn today to get by when you can get the answers to what you need in an instance? When kids do homework and use the net for answers are they actually learning?

Depends how you define it, Some of the knowledge acquired in previous generations is no longer needed. IT and Internet proficiency is higher in younger generations (although still quite bad, imo) and while older generations scoff at this seemly thinking it's just a method of cheating, it's important.

Angua
09-10-2008, 13:53
Should have had my 9 year old there. Working out the change is something he does whenever we go shopping.

kryogenik
09-10-2008, 13:57
But no this youth of about 18 then asks: “what is the change from £1 for an item of 48p?” – I kid you not.

What did you say? I was about to say I simply cannot believe this tale, but you might think I was saying you were making it up. Which I'm not.
But I find this absolutely staggering. I'd have to say the lad must have been numerically challenged or something. I refuse to believe anyone can be that daft by default.

I often get the first one, as I tend to put a tiny bit of thought into what change I give people to minimise the number of coins I get back (e.g. if something costs £9.78 and I only have a tenner and change, I might give over £10.28). Cue blank looks...

lol. Funny.
I know just the look you mean. Even funnier when they say "you've given me too much" and give you the change back, process the note then give you more change.. Cue walking away shaking one's head...

Maggy
09-10-2008, 15:30
Trouble is it's the tills that have made people stupid..it works everything out for them..Whereas my generation learned to start from the 48 p and count up until you reach the £1 mark as in "48,49,50 and another 50 makes one pound." ;)

DocDutch
09-10-2008, 15:38
LMFAO nice post this :) but yeah I've seen the blank looks before as well when I've given 5.56 for something thats 4.56.

its just shocking but the worrying thing is its nearly everywhere you look. I'm just worried about the future when the older/wiser (and now grey) population doesnt work anymore and we get all the current 12,14,16 year olds working (good luck anyway)

Maggy
09-10-2008, 15:41
Well it would be a good idea if parents got their children handling actual coins at shop counters and working out the change for themselves.I did with my children...;)

kryogenik
09-10-2008, 15:46
and we get all the current 12,14,16 year olds working (good luck anyway)

Heh..
Fortunately, not all those kids are destined for McDonalds and their computerised tills..
I think we'll be OK. Happy Happy Thoughts.
:)

Chris
09-10-2008, 15:46
Trouble is it's the tills that have made people stupid..it works everything out for them..Whereas my generation learned to start from the 48 p and count up until you reach the £1 mark as in "48,49,50 and another 50 makes one pound." ;)

I'm not sure the tills have made people stupid as such - although there's no doubt that your brain, like a muscle, requires exercise to stay in shape, and the tills probably don't provide much of that.

I think it's probably more to do with EPOS tills allowing people to get, and keep, a checkout job who 15 or 20 years ago would have been out on their ear within a week, assuming they even got the job in the first place.

kryogenik
09-10-2008, 15:46
Well it would be a good idea if parents got their children handling actual coins at shop counters and working out the change for themselves.I did with my children...;)

I do with mine Coggy. She loves it.

Watching You
09-10-2008, 15:53
What did you say? I was about to say I simply cannot believe this tale, but you might think I was saying you were making it up. Which I'm not.
But I find this absolutely staggering. I'd have to say the lad must have been numerically challenged or something. I refuse to believe anyone can be that daft by default.

What did I say, something to the effect of: “are you aving a larf, aren’t yah”

As much as I wish I had the imagination to have made that up, I don’t. Had I really wanted to embellish the story I would have said it happened in McDonalds but sadly the truth is this happened in one of the big four supermarket chains.

This takes me to a scene from one of these Naked Gun movies, where two police detectives enter a crime scene, an apartment where the door has been kicked off, there was a bloody trail in four rooms, on the walls, where an obvious fight and struggle had taken place, furniture turned over, among various weapons scattered around the apartment on top of numerous bullet holes in the walls.

The first detective takes out a pen, lifts up the sheet covering the battered corpse on the floor and declares, it looks like suicide to me, to which the second one agrees. Which is a very funny scene, until you realise, this very event actually happened and was lifted straight out of a real life police records from the NYC police.

It’s like they say truth is stranger than fiction.

danielf
09-10-2008, 16:06
It reminds me of this story (http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=218274&in_page_id=34&in_a_source=).

A MOTORIST was wrongly given a parking ticket because the warden did not know how to tell the time.

Dave Alsop was stunned to be given a £50 fine despite clearly having more than 20 minutes left on his parking ticket.

The warden had used a calculator to work out the expiry time - but made the mistake of assuming there were 100 minutes in an hour.

I'm not sure how true it is (what with the quality paper that Metro is), but it woudn't surprise me :erm:

demented
09-10-2008, 16:24
The story Watching You doesn't surprise me at all. I've been to job interviews where arithmetic tests are rolled out to much fanfare. I get 100% on them and then get things like "we noticed you didn't use the calculator" or "that was quick and a surprise". Sometimes the employers also get a bit argumentative about it, thinking they have somehow been conned and I've had to point out politely that perhaps it shouldn't be too much of a surprise having looked at my C.V.

At university, people have specialised for a while and not done some subjects for a bit and you lose sharpness at some things (which can be picked up with some effort). There were many people who hadn't done Maths since they were 16 and their courses required them to use SPSS, R or something similar and do so for 3 years. In the third year there were still many flailing about making me think that it went way beyond "being a little rusty" especially as nearly everyone had A*.

SMHarman
09-10-2008, 16:31
lol. Funny.
I know just the look you mean. Even funnier when they say "you've given me too much" and give you the change back, process the note then give you more change.. Cue walking away shaking one's head...
Or they type it into the register and there is a lightbulb moment as they realise that they can give you 50p back (oh I didn't use a calculator to work that out :) )

Tech_Boy
09-10-2008, 16:39
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/
it is billed as a comedy, I see it as a scary look into the future. ;-}

demented
09-10-2008, 16:51
Not heard of that film, might watch it if it comes on, cheers!

ZrByte
09-10-2008, 17:00
I recently went into a supermarket to purchase a packet of crisps; price 48p, unfortunately there was a power cut. Our supermarket, not being one to loose sales because of no power, remained opened. Paying for this item I presented the young man with £1 coin. At which he called a supervisor, I was under the impression he was asking to get the till or cash register (if this is what they are called) open.

But no this youth of about 18 then asks: “what is the change from £1 for an item of 48p?” – I kid you not. I then half expected Jeremy Beadle to jump out from behind the counter, shouting, “you’ve been had!” This is despite the fact that he’s already passed away.

To cap it all, the guy who gave him the information was a foreign national, to which English and our decimal base currency were both new to him but yet even he could work out that if someone gives you a £1 coin for an item of 48p the change would be (answer at bottom of page)

Maybe I am getting old here but too many of these youths think that they are really intelligent and are capable of running Lehman Bros (OK, maybe 97% could have done a better job than Richard S Fuld) but many don’t know how to obtain basic information or ask questions.

One person I met a few years ago who told me he was one of the smarted people in his school, didn’t know how to write an enquiry letter and got all his information from ‘a mate’ who was an expert in everything instead of going directly to the source. This is a man who once claimed that insurance on a brand new sports car, fully comp would be no more than £300 for a driver of under 21, because his mate who worked in a garage as an apprentice to the apprentice mechanic (makes him an insurance expert) told him so. He also had ‘a mate’ who worked in Dixons part time that qualified him to be an expert and comment on all things electrical, technical. The same 'mate' who claimed no one would ever need anything bigger than 1 Gig computer.

I was taught that if you wanted to find out information that you contacted the source directly. At 11 I asked a question about the moonwalk and was made to write a letter directly to Nasa (who are still yet to answer).

When I left school in the late 70s we were treated like we were just average, nothing special, unless you had been to a grammar school. Fortunately, I went to University as a mature student, when one day I came to the conclusion that even the dumb kids in my school were much smarter than some of these so-called smart kids today, and came away with a BSc in Economics and Business Finance. Yet sorry to say that kids today are being conned if teachers are telling them they are all genius capable of anything.


Answer = 52p

Are you 100% sure he was asking because he didnt know or asking because he needed authorisation? I only ask because I was in a similar situation when I worked for ASDA.
Someone in our security office accidentally switched on the panic button that locks down the tills (Basically kills the power to the whole checkout area). Like the store in your OP our manager was keen to keep the store open, however, she didnt seem to trust the checkout staff enough to do this themselves (I dont know 100% if this was a trust issue or just underestimating our intelligence).
The solution was to have one manager and one checkout operator work out each purchase no matter how big or small (One item or a trolley full). At the end of each transaction the checkout operator would then ask the manager what the current total was without telling the manager what his/her own total was. Once the manager had told the checkout operator his/her total the checkout operator would then compare it to his/her own, then as long as there was no more than £2.00 difference the lower of the two numbers would be what the customer paid.
And when issuing change the checkout operator didn't have authorisation to work it out themselves (I think this may have been a trust issue) so we had to ask the manager even if it was something small and easy like in the OP.
Luckily for me I had a lot of trolleys at my till when this happened so I didn't have to suffer the embarrassment of asking the change from a pound, I think I also saved my customers a fair bit of money that day as I convinced the manager who was helping me to round everything down to the nearest 10p to make adding the items easier, Most of the transactions where £100+ on average and queues where huge so every bit of time saved helped.

LondonRoad
09-10-2008, 17:19
A lot of the younger generation can't even make ball park estimations of how much a few groceries are. I was asked for nearly £50 for 8 items that totalled under a tenner. I pointed out there's been a mistake and I got the standard blank look. I asked the boy to have a look at the items he'd scanned and guess roughly how much they cost. He just maintained the blank look and looked back at the till total and repeated £4X...(whatever it was). I asked " do you think there's £50 worth of messages there?"
I'm sure Lucas or Walliams must behind me when the till operator said "that's what the till says".;)
I'm actually pleased that my 7 year old is learning her times tables just now and hope she maintains her mental ability when she is introduced to calculators.
Even now, if I use a calculator, I do a mental guestimate to double check I've entered the correct figures.

Chris
09-10-2008, 17:27
Once the manager had told the checkout operator his/her total the checkout operator would then compare it to his/her own, then as long as there was no more than £2.00 difference the lower of the two numbers would be what the customer paid.

You know, when I was a nipper and I used to go in Kwik Save with my mum, the checkout girls there always knew the price of everything, without any help from an EPOS system or any price labels. The store was closed every Wednesday afternoon so they could practice this skill.

Progress, eh ...

demented
09-10-2008, 17:29
I reckon we should switch to just using automorphic numbers to make it easier for everyone ;).

danielf
09-10-2008, 18:00
You know, when I was a nipper and I used to go in Kwik Save with my mum, the checkout girls there always knew the price of everything, without any help from an EPOS system or any price labels. The store was closed every Wednesday afternoon so they could practice this skill.

Progress, eh ...

In fairness, Kwik Save are open on Wednesday afternoon these days. Not that I would shop there, mind you :erm:

joglynne
09-10-2008, 18:24
You know, when I was a nipper and I used to go in Kwik Save with my mum, the checkout girls there always knew the price of everything, without any help from an EPOS system or any price labels. The store was closed every Wednesday afternoon so they could practice this skill.

Progress, eh ...

That brings back memories. I also remember the Kwik Save till staff who could remember the prices of everything they stocked and hold a conversation with you whilst they tapped in the numbers. When our local branch had to close to make way for a road widening they had no problems getting work in the local MacFisheries Supermarket. They were a class act.:D

Charlie_Bubble
09-10-2008, 19:52
We went to a summer fete a couple of months ago. There were some Army cadets helping to run some of the refreshment stalls. I walked up and asked for 2 items that cost £1 each. I handed over a £10 note and then had to walk the lad (maybe 14 or 15) through how to work out my change. I was astounded. How does this lad tie his shoelaces in the morning when he can't take 2 away from 10!

At my company we have a couple of computerised tests in literacy and numeracy for all people applying for jobs in the company. The company has a policy that people have to pass at certain levels in order to be offered a job. We've had 2 or 3 jobs going in our IT department that we can't fill because people with Masters degrees can't get past these fairly basic tests. It's absolutely astounding and I don't accept that technology negates a basic need for literacy and numeracy. I've seen the film 'Tech Boy' linked to earlier and although it's fictional, I can't help wonder if it's a tongue-in-cheek warning of what's coming round the corner.