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View Full Version : Virgin Media - If there's no light, I'm off


shux
08-10-2008, 23:18
I'm based in Oldham, Manchester and on Virgin Media.

I have the Virgin Media 255 Cable Modem http://www.ambitbroadband.co.uk/Images/255%20HQ%20micro.JPG.

I'm on the 20mbit service.

Right. I couldn't give a flying pig about downloading or download speeds. I do watch BBCi and 4OD before I go to bed, and occasionally download Linux distro's and iTunes music, but that's few and far between.

I do however, care a lot about my latency. I play Unreal Tournament 1999 and Counter-Strike Source. The last few months I've been having a dier time on VM with lag and ping times. I'm guessing it's down to traffic shaping.

[EDIT]

I thought I'd add my modem stats:


Downstream
Downstream Frequency : 586750000 Hz
Downstream Modulation : QAM64
Downstream Symbol Rate : 6952 Ksym/sec
Downstream Interleave Depth : taps12Increment17
Downstream Receive Power Level : 0.9 dBmV
Downstream SNR : 37.1 dB

Upstream
Upstream Channel ID : 2
Upstream Frequency : 22200000 Hz
Upstream Modulation : QPSK
Upstream Symbol Rate : 2560 Ksym/sec
Upstream transmit Power Level : 49.0 dBmV
Upstream Mini-Slot Size : 2


Ping [n -50] to news.bbc.co.uk


Pinging newswww.bbc.net.uk [212.58.226.77] with 32 bytes o

Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=38ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=53ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=34ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=29ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=41ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=37ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=49ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=40ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=25ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=46ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=26ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=41ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=33ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=37ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=25ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=41ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=34ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=93ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=67ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=43ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=38ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=62ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=25ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=39ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=69ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.226.77: bytes=32 time=23ms TTL=54

Ping statistics for 212.58.226.77:
Packets: Sent = 50, Received = 50, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 14ms, Maximum = 93ms, Average = 33ms



Tracert to news.bbc.co.uk


Tracing route to newswww.bbc.net.uk [212.58.226.77]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 9 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 11 ms 12 ms 13 ms 10.87.112.1
3 30 ms 10 ms 9 ms oldh-t2cam1-b-ge94.network.virginmedia.net [80.5.164.137]
4 29 ms 6 ms 14 ms manc-t3core-1b-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net [195.182.180.41]
5 28 ms 9 ms 10 ms man-bb-b-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.242.245]
6 62 ms 30 ms 8 ms man-bb-a-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.187.177]
7 33 ms 53 ms 23 ms gfd-bb-b-so-200-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.252.192.94]
8 16 ms 15 ms 53 ms redb-ic-1-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.185.78]
9 89 ms 224 ms 335 ms 212.58.239.249
10 39 ms 26 ms 24 ms 212.58.238.149
11 18 ms 57 ms 79 ms 212.58.239.62
12 98 ms 14 ms 21 ms newslb307.telhc.bbc.co.uk [212.58.226.77]


A popular game server I play on, which I previously had excellent latency of around 15ms - 25ms ping on, is a Multiplay.co.uk UT Deathmatch server...

Tracert to opt05.multiplay.co.uk


Tracing route to opt05.multiplay.co.uk [85.236.100.4]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 13 ms 9 ms 32 ms 10.87.112.1
3 39 ms 9 ms 11 ms oldh-t2cam1-b-ge94.network.virginmedia.net [80.5.164.137]
4 9 ms 25 ms 18 ms manc-t3core-1b-ae2-0.network.virginmedia.net [195.182.180.41]
5 11 ms 12 ms 35 ms man-bb-b-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.242.245]
6 37 ms 26 ms 69 ms pop-bb-a-as4-0.network.virginmedia.net [212.43.162.85]
7 23 ms 16 ms 67 ms pop-bb-b-ae0-0.network.virginmedia.net [213.105.174.230]
8 16 ms 39 ms 15 ms tele-ic-2-as0-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.253.184.6]
9 19 ms 29 ms 47 ms 212.250.14.114
10 35 ms 40 ms 37 ms multiplay-gw.inx.datahop.net [195.72.129.14]
11 27 ms 35 ms 19 ms opt05.multiplay.co.uk [85.236.100.4]

Trace complete.


Ping [n -15] to opt05.multiplay.co.uk


Pinging opt05.multiplay.co.uk [85.236.100.4] with 32 bytes

Reply from 85.236.100.4: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.100.4: bytes=32 time=54ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.100.4: bytes=32 time=38ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.100.4: bytes=32 time=41ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.100.4: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.100.4: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.100.4: bytes=32 time=44ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.100.4: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.100.4: bytes=32 time=42ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.100.4: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.100.4: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.100.4: bytes=32 time=49ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.100.4: bytes=32 time=44ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.100.4: bytes=32 time=45ms TTL=119
Reply from 85.236.100.4: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=119

Ping statistics for 85.236.100.4:
Packets: Sent = 15, Received = 15, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 16ms, Maximum = 54ms, Average = 33ms


Which ever server I tracert, ping, and most importantly - play on, I get frustrating erratic latency. It's like the National Lottery of ping times, 'Pick a number, any number, between 15 and 100, and there you have it.

Sometimes I can pull my aim off, if I catch a good ping, others I'll be watching myself teleport to my gaming grave and sigh as I respawn.

I contacted Virgin Media, and the initial customer support was attrocious, I was sent around in circles. Various questions, all script based, were being thrown at me. Questions with no relevance to latency. Questions I knew for a fact was just general, 'ask everybody' questions. I got rather frustrated and asked him if he knew about latency, he simply hesitated and persisted to send me around in circles, telling me to turn off my AV, my Firewall, check my windows processes, boot in to Safe Mode, unplug my router, etc etc.

I've got a degree in computer science, I work as a C# programmer, and before I made the phone call I'd turned off all background services and directly ethernet'd my modem up to my PC.

After a while of pointlessly trying to explain to the chap that my problem was nothing to do with 'Download Speed', which is in fact spot on - 980Kbytes per second, and was latency - which he'd never heard of, I demanded to be put through to VM cancellations.

Upon speaking to somebody I could understand much better, they asked me why I wanted to leave, I explained, and they put me through to somebody who was actually knowledgable on the subject and most certainly knew about latency. Though, and I respect him for this, he openly admitted Traffic Shaping and equipment in my local area and contention were all to blame for my latency issues.

They placed me on the 20mb service for the price of the 10mb service for the next 6 months (2 months have passed since this conversation), in the hope that 'things will get better'.

So far, things are only getting worse, and my latency is making me want to pack up my bags and head for PlusNet, an ADSL provider who prioritise their gaming packets, and from friends who are on PlusNet, they are unbelievably happy with pings between 15ms and 30ms consistently.

Though, I'd rather not have to pay installation, £13 for BT Line rental and £20 a month at the moment, but if I can't get this fixed, I will be doing :o:

Is there anything I can do before I decide to leave, or am I best doing so?

Mike

Axegrinder
09-10-2008, 00:23
Modem levels are fine.

Slightly irregular pings to BBC. VMs routing isnt the best sometimes ;)

Jonathan90
09-10-2008, 04:32
Ignore the dude who said it was traffic management cause to my knowledge that is completeley wrong hell stm made my latency better latency in my case was caused by oversubscription of the ubr it was overloaded thus the delay etc.

cook1984
13-10-2008, 01:18
VM are no good for gaming, especially in the evenings. VM don't care about ping times, because low latency doesn't sell broadband. The only solution is to change ISP.

Zen and Be are both known for having good ping times.

Fatec
13-10-2008, 01:34
Ignore the dude who said it was traffic management cause to my knowledge that is completeley wrong hell stm made my latency better latency in my case was caused by oversubscription of the ubr it was overloaded thus the delay etc.

STM makes latency go through the roof here.

Rone
13-10-2008, 09:36
VM are no good for gaming, especially in the evenings. VM don't care about ping times, because low latency doesn't sell broadband. The only solution is to change ISP.

Zen and Be are both known for having good ping times.

Have to agree with that, 7 years ago you might have done ok with NTL and UT.

cook1984
14-10-2008, 00:26
STM makes latency go through the roof here.

That happens for me too. At first I though it might not be so bad because even if I do get throttled I'll be able to play some games, right? How wrong I was.

shux
15-10-2008, 21:40
Hi Guys,

Thanks a lot for all your replies :)

It's true, and all your posts back it up - Virgin Media is no good for gamers.

I've tried my very best with Virgin Media to see if there was a solution, but as much as they've tried to help and sympathised, there's nothing they can do.

Thankfully however there has been choice for me - a new ISP.

I've been doing lots of research in to which ISP would be the best for online gaming here in the UK, and at one point I phoned up PlusNet to sign up, but because my BT line wasn't active (by hours), they couldn't. Thank God tbh...

In the time I was waiting to phone PlusNet back, I read a few reviews. Many were saying that at one time PlusNet was excellent - customer service, ping times, stability. Although now many are poor reviews, 1/2/3 out of 10, and they're deteriorating.

I finally found Aquiss. These guys are seriously, seriously, gold dust in todays world of ISPs. I've signed up, and I've just been on their forums. It doesn't feel like an ISP, it's more like a community that runs an ISP and the community is full of extremely knowledgable, helpful and interesting members of staff who seem to bend over backwards for you.

The control panel is full of all of the details an advanced internet user would require - an internal speed test on their network, all configuration settings - even a map of their network infrastructure in all regions in the UK, and the capacity each line has.

Ping times from users of Aquiss have posted replies to me, and to the servers I'm currently getting pings between 20 and 100 millseconds, they're recieving 10 - 25 millseconds, one of which is a customer based in Manchester.

The interesting thing is, I'm keeping the Virgin Media line. I say me, my parent's pay for the Virgin Media line and they don't want to change, so I'm paying for my own ISP purely for gaming.

So I have an 8Mbit 30gb a month allowance low latency ADSL from Aquiss, and a fair usage policy 10Mbit line from Virgin which I get a nice 1.2mb/s speed from.

Thanks for all your help guys.

If you play games and have problems on Virgin Media, consider Aquiss.

AmAtoL
15-10-2008, 21:55
Hi Guys,
If you play games and have problems on Virgin Media, consider Aquiss.

That's the plan really, I have UK Online 8 meg LLU for gaming and VM for the rest of the house, well, one lad and Warcraft :p
The pings are much more stable but I do still get a bit of warping on 48 player servers (BF2142) nowhere near as bad as VM had got though.
Average ping to the servers based in the South are generally around 18ms, rarely goes above 21.

|Kippa|
16-10-2008, 11:15
"Virgin Media - If there's no light, I'm off"

Yes there is light at the end of the tunnel, it is a charging train that is going to run you over. Luckly it was stm'd and ran only at 1/4 the speed giving you ample time to get out of the way. :)

cook1984
20-10-2008, 21:30
My pings are solid on Be, now the line has settled after the first week. Always in the 15-30ms range for UK servers.

Can't beat it - I'm 2km from the exchange but getting 12meg down and 2.3meg up for £22/month. Faster, cheaper, more stable and more reliable than VM.