rubbish bandwidth of ADSL - 100kb while 8Gb expected

[Zdenek K]

Hi all,

I've got few questions regarding VM ADSL broadband over BT landline. It, well, works. But...

My modem reports DownStream Connection Speed 5632 kbps UpStream Connection Speed 448 kbps, which seems fine. 5.6Gb is not quite 8Gb, but I'd be happy with that. I'm however far from being happy with currect behaviou. First - right after powering the modem on and estabilishing the link I reach 450-500kbps. That transfer, however, lasts for no more than a minute and then goes sharply down to various, but always mediocre values. For example at the moment it is 80kb from ftp.virginmedia.com, so on VM network exclusively. Opening single web page can takes half a minute sometimes. Pinging my gateway (i.e. the hop after the modem, popl-bam-1.network.virginmedia.net) returns anything from 40 to 350ms averaging at ~150ms. Also one of my downloads for example - suspending download and resuming it later makes one-two second running at ~1Mbit and after that it suddenly drops to 160mbit. The link is stable overall - once connected never goes down. All of that makes me suspect that either my area is terribly overloaded or I experience technical fault somewhere. Ah, and it makes no difference whether I run on wireless or cable. Three laptops from different vendors checked so far.

And now few questions. The first one - my modem is DG834Gv4 with the latest firmware, are there any issues known here? The second one - where can I get information about congestions, infrastructure, overloading etc. on MK14 area? The third one - did anyone was ever able to convince VM that there is a problem at all and fix (or cancel) the deal? WHat arguments were used for that? That's ridiculous - my mobile Vodafone pcmcia card beats this one! I could understand the link to be slower that advertised, but 100x slower is bit too much for me.

[dilli-theclaw]

Sounds like you are a)being application throttled and b)traffic shaped

[Ignitionnet]

Virgin's ADSL network is heavily shaped and oversubscribed.

Try disconnecting and reconnecting then do the tests again until you get onto a bam that isn't so heavily overloaded that's about the only way to go.

You won't be seeing any shaping on FTP / HTTP as far as I know so chances are it's just oversubscription on the bandwidth to that bam, the DSL network is not per area but per bam and you go to bams on a round robin basis so dis/reconnect until you get lucky sadly :(

[Zdenek K]

Ok, starting from midnight I reach 2.8Mbit. So the question is redesigned - was anyone able to slide out of the deal which gives you astonishing 1% of what was promised? Claiming that 1% of 8Mbit does not break "up to 8Mbit" deal is simply rubbish. I'll fight for paying 1% of the fee or scrapping the deal. The problem is that I work from home mostly. I'm, heh, network specialist (being sick already thinking about going through drone tech support - its function is to make so many problems by asking ridiculous questions that you resign) and I do rely on being able to transfer gigabytes big files all the time, not only when my provider finds it convenient. Not being able to transfer a lot equals to driving to work. Besides I do not recall being informed about these restrictions. I moved out from Bham area not so long ago and I never had any restrictions on my cable 1Mbit service there. And yes, I do run emule sometimes. I can find no clause that it impacts my bandwidth in the agreement.

Another question - do VM compensates it somehow (charging 1%, providing fixed bandwidth when shouted on really loud or anything similar)? What was the best deal you werea ble to get? If none, what's reasonable alternative, i.e. providers/services for ADSL in Milton Keynes area?

[Fatec]

Ok, starting from midnight I reach 2.8Mbit. So the question is redesigned - was anyone able to slide out of the deal which gives you astonishing 1% of what was promised? Claiming that 1% of 8Mbit does not break "up to 8Mbit" deal is simply rubbish. I'll fight for paying 1% of the fee or scrapping the deal. The problem is that I work from home mostly. I'm, heh, network specialist (being sick already thinking about going through drone tech support - its function is to make so many problems by asking ridiculous questions that you resign) and I do rely on being able to transfer gigabytes big files all the time, not only when my provider finds it convenient. Not being able to transfer a lot equals to driving to work. Besides I do not recall being informed about these restrictions. I moved out from Bham area not so long ago and I never had any restrictions on my cable 1Mbit service there. And yes, I do run emule sometimes. I can find no clause that it impacts my bandwidth in the agreement.

Another question - do VM compensates it somehow (charging 1%, providing fixed bandwidth when shouted on really loud or anything similar)? What was the best deal you werea ble to get? If none, what's reasonable alternative, i.e. providers/services for ADSL in Milton Keynes area?


http://www.samknows.com click on availability checker and enter your post code to see what other ISP's you can go with.

VM ADSL has REALLY heavy and unfair restrictions/throttling/traffic shaping.

The cable service also now has traffic managent so you was with the company when it was actually good.

As for getting it reduced, i'm pretty sure they dont give out much for their adsl product.

[utt]

Ok, starting from midnight I reach 2.8Mbit. So the question is redesigned - was anyone able to slide out of the deal which gives you astonishing 1% of what was promised? Claiming that 1% of 8Mbit does not break "up to 8Mbit" deal is simply rubbish. I'll fight for paying 1% of the fee or scrapping the deal. The problem is that I work from home mostly. I'm, heh, network specialist (being sick already thinking about going through drone tech support - its function is to make so many problems by asking ridiculous questions that you resign) and I do rely on being able to transfer gigabytes big files all the time, not only when my provider finds it convenient. Not being able to transfer a lot equals to driving to work. Besides I do not recall being informed about these restrictions. I moved out from Bham area not so long ago and I never had any restrictions on my cable 1Mbit service there. And yes, I do run emule sometimes. I can find no clause that it impacts my bandwidth in the agreement.

Another question - do VM compensates it somehow (charging 1%, providing fixed bandwidth when shouted on really loud or anything similar)? What was the best deal you werea ble to get? If none, what's reasonable alternative, i.e. providers/services for ADSL in Milton Keynes area?

It should that you are being restricted during peak periods given you potentially transfer large files all of the time. If this is so you will be restricted during peak hours for a week at a time. You will need to look at your usage of the service. This is all covered under the T&C's of your account here (http://www.virgin.net/terms/broadband_tc.html)

As it says its an up to 8Mb service and will depend on how far you are from your exchange. Also as its a residential service and not business it is highly unlikely you would get anything refunded

[sparky621]

The problem is that I work from home mostly. I'm, heh, network specialist ...........and I do rely on being able to transfer gigabytes big files all the time,

AND we wonder why VM has introduced traffic management:mad:

[Ignitionnet]

AND we wonder why VM has introduced traffic management:mad:

Because 4GB a month on their ADSL service is a lot of bandwidth. That's how much during peak times some people have noticed themselves getting managed at. I'm not talking gently managed either, I'm talking sub-100kbps managed.

On their ADSL platform the limit is simply the top 5% of users. So they go elsewhere and you get down to the next 5%, and the next 5%, and the next 5%...

[Sirius]

AND we wonder why VM has introduced traffic management:mad:


Indeed

[dilli-theclaw]

I download all my stuff off peak with my virgin adsl and still get shaped, yup silly me expecting to be able to use my service at a reasonable speed when I'm paying for it.

[sparky621]

My point was that he is using a RESIDENTIAL service for business purposes.
Gigabyte files all the time is a hell of a lot of data!

[dilli-theclaw]

no, I don't think it is anymore. Not when you look at HD video file for example.

[Ignitionnet]

My point was that he is using a RESIDENTIAL service for business purposes.
Gigabyte files all the time is a hell of a lot of data!

A whole gigabyte isn't much. World of Warcraft and many other games, especially during beta test periods, have patches that approach and exceed these levels. Demo versions of software can break the 1GB barrier quite comfortably. BBCi uses 350MB/hour and that is the standard definition version.

All these perfectly legal residential uses of a connection.

[sparky621]

But he IS using his connection for business purposes. And reading his post it is not occasional. This is contrary to the T&Cs for a reidential service. How many other businesses are doing this and in the process spoiling it for leisure users?

[Ignitionnet]

But he IS using his connection for business purposes. And reading his post it is not occasional. This is contrary to the T&Cs for a reidential service. How many other businesses are doing this and in the process spoiling it for leisure users?

Going by the usual performance of Virgin DSL I'd imagine not many at all.

[Zdenek K]

Guys (and girls, if any) - stop pushing the words that were not told into my mouth. I never stated that I transfer gigabyte files all the time. I do need high bandwidth - for transfering a gigabyte or two every second day or so. I do not share files (running emule is not being equal to sharing anything) and, when I download anything what is not urgent I do it off peak hours. I also do not expect miracles like 8Mbit every single second of every day to any location in the world. The real problem is that when I do need to transfer single one gigabyte big file I need it fast. ETA for that was 29 hours yesterday! Believe me or not - there are online gamers transfering more in terms of amount of data. And, whatever VM says, http wad also throttled. And mobile dial-up connection was faster than VM 8Mbit broadband yesterday.

I can see no answer for my question, so one more time - any reasonable ADSL providers in MK area? Please notice I don't ask for available ones - VM is also "any", but it does not seem to be reasonable, right?

[homealone]

You are mistaken if you think that running emule does not involve sharing files - sharing is how peer to peer programs work :)

[CrowmanUK]

I got out of my DSL contract after 6 weeks with them mate, it all depends on when you signed up, when I signed up it was supposedly a minimum of 512kb/sec if you got traffic managed, but it was actually 80kb/s which made a big difference, I got in touch with the ISPA and Virgin got back to me within 2 days to sort out the problem. I got released from my 12 month contract without penalty, mind you I got a letter off them a while back saying I owed them 180 quid, quick phone call later and it was sorted out, turns out one department hadnt contacted another to tell them I owed nothing.

ISPA address http://www.ispa.org.uk/

My thread http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33631301-adsl-traffic-management.html

Virgin ADSL is the worst of the worst, I know the cable boys moan about traffic management but if they got this then they'd have something to moan about.

[confucious]

1Gb every other day is quite a bit but not necessarily excessive but isn't eMule P2P? Am I wrong in thinking that can use a LOT of bandwidth? I don't know anything about Virgin ADSL - I have cable and am very satisfied. Is P2P allowed under the T&C?
Have you asked Virgin if there is is Traffic Shaping on your account and if so, why?
If there isn't then there is something wrong. If there is then ask why and see if you are breaking the T&C. If you are then there isn't a lot you can complain about. If you're not then hopefully V will do something about it.

[Sirius]

(running emule is not being equal to sharing anything) and, when I download anything what is not urgent I do it off peak hours.

What is eMule?


As of today, eMule is one of the biggest and most reliable peer-to-peer file sharing clients around the world. Thanks to it's open source policy many developers are able to contribute to the project, making the network more efficient with each release.

http://www.emule-project.net/home/perl/general.cgi?l=1

Looks like, tastes like and smells like P2P :)

[Fatec]

Guys (and girls, if any) - stop pushing the words that were not told into my mouth. I never stated that I transfer gigabyte files all the time. I do need high bandwidth - for transfering a gigabyte or two every second day or so. I do not share files (running emule is not being equal to sharing anything) and, when I download anything what is not urgent I do it off peak hours. I also do not expect miracles like 8Mbit every single second of every day to any location in the world. The real problem is that when I do need to transfer single one gigabyte big file I need it fast. ETA for that was 29 hours yesterday! Believe me or not - there are online gamers transfering more in terms of amount of data. And, whatever VM says, http wad also throttled. And mobile dial-up connection was faster than VM 8Mbit broadband yesterday.

I can see no answer for my question, so one more time - any reasonable ADSL providers in MK area? Please notice I don't ask for available ones - VM is also "any", but it does not seem to be reasonable, right?


Did you not read my reply?

http://www.samknows.com click availability checker, enter your postcode and it will tell you what ISP's are available in you're area!

[CrowmanUK]

Doesnt matter whats running, when I was having problems the guy from tech support said if you use more than around 5Gig a week you'll fall into the traffic management and get 80kb/s between 4pm and midnight for a week. You cant even surf the net on 8KB/sec, even the missus who only looks at a few forums gave up, I was dubious about the way they measure your usage too, I absolutely made sure I was downloading anything of any size outside "peak" times and still got stm'd.
If you're going to stay with them get a good bandwidth monitor, one that you can make a report that shows what you downloaded by the hour, not just by the day, but best of luck trying to convince them that you used the bandwidth out of peak time.

[Fatec]

Doesnt matter whats running, when I was having problems the guy from tech support said if you use more than around 5Gig a week you'll fall into the traffic management and get 80kb/s between 4pm and midnight for a week. You cant even surf the net on 8KB/sec, even the missus who only looks at a few forums gave up, I was dubious about the way they measure your usage too, I absolutely made sure I was downloading anything of any size outside "peak" times and still got stm'd.
If you're going to stay with them get a good bandwidth monitor, one that you can make a report that shows what you downloaded by the hour, not just by the day, but best of luck trying to convince them that you used the bandwidth out of peak time.

Dont forget they have application throttling as well...which from previous memories just having anything that uses p2p open would cripple the connection (if its at peak times)

As for the 8Kb/s, it's a little white lie, they do the same as tiscali and put you on a "badboy bandwith" range where you share upto 8Kb/s with the rest of them...8Kb/s itself is enough to browse simple web pages, 0.56Kb/s however is not ;)

[Zdenek K]

Ah, ISPA is great. That's what I was looking for and what I will use. Many thanks for ointing that.

Has anyone noticed that VM policy of choosing users to throttle has not much to do with fair-sharing bandwidth? From VM web site: "Each week we review our top 5% heaviest peak-time users over the previous 7 days. We then update the refreshed customer list to our servers for traffic shaping." Please notice that: 1) 5% of customers will be throttled to 1% of their possible speed even when plenty of spare capacity is available; 2) throttling these 5% does not guarantee any improvement for remaining users, as released bandwidth can be eaten by remaining 95% users in a moment. So, in case of having spare bandwidth available, customers are punished just cause VM decides that and no gain other than VM satisfaction. In case when links are saturated by not throttled user small benefit can be gained (per user it's random BTW, not fair, as VM states), but not throttled users will still feel bad level of service, although a bit better. Hitting what VM states this policy do - that throttled users release enough bandwidth for everyone else to have reasonable service - is simply matter of luck. So what is all of that about? As VM (and every other ISP) pays for traffic exchanged with other providers it's simply about reducing overall traffic and hence costs. So, when you're said "we throttle some users to sustain reasonable level of service to everyone" put "we throttle some users to keep bigger share of their fees to ourselves, but, as that would start huge revolt, be claim that our goal is improved customer service" in that place.

Anybody here agrees with VM that delivering 1% of what was promised it an improvement?

[CrowmanUK]

Trust me Trax, 8k is not enough to browse simple web pages, which is why I pointed out that the missus only looks at forums, no graphics, no flash, no whizzes, bangs or pops and even she gave up. And if like me you're used to looking at a few pages at the same time then you've got no chance, application throttling if memory serves me correctly knocks you down to 20KB/sec during peak times, 3 or 4 pm till 1am, if he's down to 80kb/sec its traffic management.

[confucious]

My first modem was a Dowty Quatro 2400Baud which ran at a max of 2,4k and only cost £799.

If it was good enough for me then it should be good enough for you now.

I don't know, the youth of today...

I think I'll just stick to my 20Meg and get out before the flames get to hot.

:D

[Ignitionnet]

Good isn't it, top 5% every week get shaped, go elsewhere, next 5%, next 5%.

Pretty soon loading up Facebook more than once a week will get you in that 5%.