self-loathing and self-esteem

[kangaroosterrier]

I have a good self-image. I know my limits. I'm never depressed but can sometimes be mad or furious at the state of my life. All in all I think I'm doing well even if I still get sozzled more than I should or smoke the occassional cigarette. I'd say I'm a happy sort of fellow and do not believe I lack self-esteem.

That being said, I do however tend to hate myself a lot. Mostly the things I say and my blasted laziness. After a few beers I'm a right bloody muppet. But I am drinking far less than I was before. Still it really irks me how big an idiot I can be when I know better.

Now it's often said that you can't get someone to love you unless you first love yourself. My own experience has shown me that this is twaddle. I've had many girlfriends when I've utterly despised myself and the godforsaken irresponsibility that comes with me. Articles I've read about self-hatred have always tied it up with a poor self image. While this may be true in many cases in mine it's just more twaddle.

I'd reckon my own self-loathing is but a first step in becoming a better person, behaving the way I know is proper. I feel it's an important part of who I am though I wouldn't mind getting rid of the feeling, and it's because I don't want to keep hating myself that I should (but often don't) strive to improve my character.

Does this make sense? I have yet to read an article that doesn't link self-loathing with low self-esteem, and for me that's just not me.
I've not met someone who feels the same though.

[peanut]

I don't really understand what is your question. What is it you're after?

[downquark1]

My advice, decide who you want to be and make gradual steps towards it.

Beware new age self help programs that will take advantage of you.

[kangaroosterrier]

I don't really understand what is your question. What is it you're after?
Does anybody feel it's possible to have a good self-image yet despise yourself? Seems not, yet that's exactly how I'd describe myself and I don't think it's odd. I'm hoping I'm not the only one who feels like this.

[downquark1]

Does anybody feel it's possible to have a good self-image yet despise yourself? Seems not, yet that's exactly how I'd describe myself and I don't think it's odd. I'm hoping I'm not the only one who feels like this.

I think so. Are you saying you see yourself as a successful person but not the successful person you would like to be?

[kangaroosterrier]

I see myself as far smarter than my actions (which can be very infantile at times).

[Maggy]

I believe it's called knowing yourself and being totally honest.You recognise your worst traits and can live with them because they aren't the worst traits in the world.

In other words you know what is bad in you but you don't necessarily think you need to change them because in the main you are a useful happy member of society.

[Hugh]

Recognising that there are areas/facets of your personality and life that could be improved does not (imho) mean you need to "loathe" yourself.

You appear to have taken the first step, which is recognising there could be a problem. Now you have to work out how to make any changes you wish (remembering that some of the areas that you think should be changed may be fundamental to your personality, so you may wish to not modify those to much).

[kangaroosterrier]

I believe it's called knowing yourself and being totally honest.You recognise your worst traits and can live with them because they aren't the worst traits in the world.

In other words you know what is bad in you but you don't necessarily think you need to change them because in the main you are a useful happy member of society.

Oh, I fully intend to change my bad points and hate that I haven't yet.

---------- Post added at 11:08 ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 ----------

Recognising that there are areas/facets of your personality and life that could be improved does not (imho) mean you need to "loathe" yourself.

You appear to have taken the first step, which is recognising there could be a problem. Now you have to work out how to make any changes you wish (remembering that some of the areas that you think should be changed may be fundamental to your personality, so you may wish to not modify those to much).

I do loathe myself. I curse myself, tell others what a moron I am, etc.

Thing is I don't think it's a problem so much as it's how I function. If I liked everything I did I think I'd be a hypocrite and wouldn't try to better myself. Not liking how I've behaved in the past has often stopped me from acting like an idiot. I cringe at the memory of a lot of what I've done. I also refuse to publish anything under my own name lest others enjoy reading something I've written and then go to thinking I must be a smart fellow, or worse, a good soul (which I honestly believe I am only if I remind myself of the good I've done then I might get to thinking I don't need to work on myself and become complacent which is what I don't want).

By focusing on my mistakes I tend to try and avoid repeating them.

[Hugh]

But we learn from our mistakes (which you recognise).

Loathing is a very strong emotion - I have often thought myself stupid, dumb, thoughtless, inconsiderate for doing some things; but never loathed myself (and I have done a lot of s,d,t,i things).

My recommendation to you is talk to a counsellor, as the strength of your emotions is a bit beyond (imho) a forum's resolution abilities.

Good luck, as I believe you have started on the path, but just need not to beat yourself up so much.

[kangaroosterrier]

I doubt I require counselling and not really looking for resolution, more interested in the relationship between low self-esteem and self-loathing. I believe the two can be mutually exclusive but the articles I've read seem to disagree.

As for myself, well, every year I'm better than I was the previous one so time will resolve all my behavioural problems.

[Pia]

I hate myself for being so lazy. Like when the house is a mess and i know i'd feel better if i got off my backside and tidied it but i insist on putting it off by reading internet forums :erm:

Seriously! Sometimes we need something to happen to kick us up the backside to change these things for the better. I'm still waiting :D

---------- Post added at 17:55 ---------- Previous post was at 17:54 ----------

I also know how much mroe confidence i would have if i lost weight. I joined a gym 3 weeks ago and have only been once.... Where's that kick up the backside? :angel:

I should write a book on "How to put off doing positive things"

[Ramrod]

I see myself as far smarter than my actions (which can be very infantile at times).The thing is that we often see ourselves as different to how we actually are (and how others see us)
If you act in an infantile way others will perceive you to be infantile-because you are; it doesn't matter if you see yourself as different to that.....actions speak louder than words....

edit....in the same way, if I believe I am not a coward and yet act in a cowardly fashion then guess what?.....I'm a coward.....

[WHISTLED]

:wtf:

[kangaroosterrier]

The thing is that we often see ourselves as different to how we actually are (and how others see us)
If you act in an infantile way others will perceive you to be infantile-because you are; it doesn't matter if you see yourself as different to that.....actions speak louder than words....

edit....in the same way, if I believe I am not a coward and yet act in a cowardly fashion then guess what?.....I'm a coward.....

You're only a coward if you act in a cowardly fashion every time you're faced with a challenge, not if you behave like one for five or ten times (calling yourself one each time, and hating yourself for not standing up to the task at hand whatever it may be) but thereafter by using this self-hate you ensure that you behave bravely the next fifty or a hundred times you're challenged.

One of the best notions I've come across since reading up on it is that self-loathing is a form of self-indulgence.

[scrotnig]

The only part of me I loathe is my enormous stomach. I am about to embark on an "eating plan" to try and get rid of it, but if we're talking self loathing, then i certainly loathe my weight and size, but nothing else about me.

My own fatness can make me feel physically sick.

[alferret]

The only part of me I loathe is my enormous stomach. I am about to embark on an "eating plan" to try and get rid of it, but if we're talking self loathing, then i certainly loathe my weight and size, but nothing else about me.

My own fatness can make me feel physically sick.

I'm with you on that one bud, I used to be a slim fit young man now im a podgy old porker.
I too loath my weight (15st 5) and my caricature stomach.
We could start up a self help group, the CF porkers.
I'll start.

Hi my name is Alan and I'm a porker. I want to loose weight and get back into shape.


Now I feel better where's the cream buns :D jk ;)

[Sir John Luke]

Can I join the club?:)

[idi banashapan]

before you can remedy a situation, you first need to know the root / cause of it. it's the same when you diagnose anything. You need to know what was being done to get to the current stage in order to find out what needs the most attention.

so let's look back a little... a lot can happen in 34 years. some you may remember, some you may not, at least, not in a fully conscious manner. on a subconscious level, yes. are you from a single parent family? did both parents provide what you feel you need through out your childhood? were they both around as much as they could have been? were they approachable when you needed help? how were your school years? did you struggle at school? did this turn into a situation were you felt you were not meeting other peoples expectations of you? did you ever feel, for what ever reason, that you were not good enough? were you bullied? did you have a lot of close friends (not just acquaintances)? how is work? do you have close friends now?

It sounds to me like you put on a front. a barrier perhaps. one to stop people getting close to you on an emotional level. it may even be that you are stopping yourself getting close to others on an emotional level. again, this is likely to be at a subconscious level, and not something you actively seek in doing. but there is something that you have locked away that is stopping you from making meaningful relationships for fear of hurting or being hurt.

your self-loathing is part of the mechanism whereby you are ensuring that if you believe you are not worth much on the inside, that others will also think the same, and therefore the emotional wall is built.

it's also very likely that at first (ie, now), you won't realise this. in fact, in a lot of cases, it's denied outright. but take some time to examine where you have been in your life and what has happened to you. who did you want to be in life? what were your expectations of yourself? what was the expectation from others regarding you? who do you want to be?

you need to address those things you have locked up inside you. the improvement of character that you talk about is obviously where you would like to be, but why? as for the whole 'love yourself before you can love others', well there is truth in that. you say it's twaddle because you have had girlfriends, but how close were you? i mean really? did you ever let any of them get to your core? i get the impression you are not a very emotional person, at least, not on the outside. you want to be seen as strong, emotionally, and yearn to be in control of everything that might affect you. it's understandable and common, but sometimes you need to show that something has hurt you. there's no point in holding on to the past and dragging it through the present as it will only get more damaged and slow you down. put to rest those demons. ;)

[Maggy]

I note that the OP's occupation is listed as writer..and I'm wondering if this thread is his/her research. ;)

[Ramrod]

You're only a coward if you act in a cowardly fashion every time you're faced with a challengeI agree. The point I was making is that our own perception of ourselves can be inaccurate--it's often based on what we would like to be rather than what we actually are like.

[kangaroosterrier]

before you can remedy a situation, you first need to know the root / cause of it. it's the same when you diagnose anything. You need to know what was being done to get to the current stage in order to find out what needs the most attention.

so let's look back a little... a lot can happen in 34 years. some you may remember, some you may not, at least, not in a fully conscious manner. on a subconscious level, yes. are you from a single parent family? did both parents provide what you feel you need through out your childhood? were they both around as much as they could have been? were they approachable when you needed help? how were your school years? did you struggle at school? did this turn into a situation were you felt you were not meeting other peoples expectations of you? did you ever feel, for what ever reason, that you were not good enough? were you bullied? did you have a lot of close friends (not just acquaintances)? how is work? do you have close friends now?

It sounds to me like you put on a front. a barrier perhaps. one to stop people getting close to you on an emotional level. it may even be that you are stopping yourself getting close to others on an emotional level. again, this is likely to be at a subconscious level, and not something you actively seek in doing. but there is something that you have locked away that is stopping you from making meaningful relationships for fear of hurting or being hurt.

your self-loathing is part of the mechanism whereby you are ensuring that if you believe you are not worth much on the inside, that others will also think the same, and therefore the emotional wall is built.

it's also very likely that at first (ie, now), you won't realise this. in fact, in a lot of cases, it's denied outright. but take some time to examine where you have been in your life and what has happened to you. who did you want to be in life? what were your expectations of yourself? what was the expectation from others regarding you? who do you want to be?

you need to address those things you have locked up inside you. the improvement of character that you talk about is obviously where you would like to be, but why? as for the whole 'love yourself before you can love others', well there is truth in that. you say it's twaddle because you have had girlfriends, but how close were you? i mean really? did you ever let any of them get to your core? i get the impression you are not a very emotional person, at least, not on the outside. you want to be seen as strong, emotionally, and yearn to be in control of everything that might affect you. it's understandable and common, but sometimes you need to show that something has hurt you. there's no point in holding on to the past and dragging it through the present as it will only get more damaged and slow you down. put to rest those demons. ;)

You bring up many questions I have often asked myself. As it is I understand very well where my feelings arise from, and am an emotional person, or rather, very in touch with my emotions. Most of my ways do stem from my childhood. The lack of any desire for recognition (uncommon for a writer) stems from my primary school years and have been worked through on my own but the lack of desire for recognition has remained (I feel no need to elaborate on the influencing incident).

Yes, I had been close with the girlfriends and am good friends with many to this day. The relationships either didn't work because of (in the beginning) my lack of social skills (most of my childhood was spent in extreme isolation) or because of the ever common incompatibility.

I'm sure I've put up a front the odd couple of times in my life but I assure you there aren't any barriers between me and the people I deal with. I'm a very open person and have a healthy sense of self-worth, yet I can still loathe things inside of me I know I still need to work on. It sounds like a major contradiction but I've had great self-esteem yet loathed myself for the better part of seventeen years.

---------- Post added at 11:40 ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 ----------

I note that the OP's occupation is listed as writer..and I'm wondering if this thread is his/her research. ;)
This is not part of any research (I write black humour not human interest dramas or psychological studies) and stems more from the need to understand my workings better, though, I admit, this cannot hurt a writer.