View Full Version : Cloned Modems and STM
mark233a
09-07-2008, 13:49
I would like to know why Virgin is ignoring all the cloned modems out there. I know from an engineer they suspect the 30% of there network is used by cloned modems.
You would think it would be easy to detect multiple Macs address in an area and invest in software to stop it...
I know that my Mac has been cloned as when I come home from work, switch my modem on I get 5mb not 20mb. I have phoned virgin support and they keep on saying I have been STM but are not acknowledging that my Modem has been cloned and not willing to replace it.
I suspect many people out there will be experiencing the same issues as I have.
Mike :mad:
TraxData
09-07-2008, 14:17
They stopped them before and are working on it now, trust me :)
Though, the fact they dont get stm'd you can see why so many people get cloned modems.
I know that my Mac has been cloned as when I come home from work, switch my modem on I get 5mb not 20mb.
Can you please explain for us non-network engineers how you know that your MAC has been cloned?
I would like to know why Virgin is ignoring all the cloned modems out there. I know from an engineer they suspect the 30% of there network is used by cloned modems.
You would think it would be easy to detect multiple Macs address in an area and invest in software to stop it...
I know that my Mac has been cloned as when I come home from work, switch my modem on I get 5mb not 20mb. I have phoned virgin support and they keep on saying I have been STM but are not acknowledging that my Modem has been cloned and not willing to replace it.
I suspect many people out there will be experiencing the same issues as I have.
Mike :mad:
30% eh.... i suppose its a good headline figure but please do the math virgin has over two million modems out there so the clone modem problem whilst still wrong is more like .3% not 30!!
TraxData
09-07-2008, 15:07
30% eh.... i suppose its a good headline figure but please do the math virgin has over two million modems out there so the clone modem problem whilst still wrong is more like .3% not 30!!
LOL you have no idea just how wrong you are.
Over 35% of the VM network is made up of cloners, most of which are customers paying for the lowest tier package and then using a cloned modem to get the 20Mbit config.
Why do you think there was such a huge hit to stop the modems not so long aog? they wouldnt of bothered if it was .3% :rolleyes:
You don't, the simple fact that someone is STM'd right away might just be a problem with the STM config files as much as it is to do with cloned modems.
May I suggest that you log your speeds over a week (upload and download) and approach tech support with a bit of more definate proof that your speed isn't what it should be (up and down) as it would go a long way to persuading a Tech support guy that you've got an issue that needs investigation. If you think about it how many calls must they get a day and from them they have to try to wedlle out the true faults..
Kymmy
LOL you have no idea just how wrong you are.
Over 35% of the VM network is made up of cloners, most of which are customers paying for the lowest tier package and then using a cloned modem to get the 20Mbit config.
Why do you think there was such a huge hit to stop the modems not so long aog? they wouldnt of bothered if it was .3% :rolleyes:
35% of 2 million = 700,000 cloned modems... ok you win:erm:
simple solution, advise of a fault with your modem, (upto you how you go about this, various ways ) have them send you a new modem, no more issues with your modem being cloned, if in fact that is the issue...
TraxData
09-07-2008, 15:16
35% of 2 million = 700,000 cloned modems... ok you win:erm:
Just remember, it's pretty common place that for every customer that has the lowest package, there is another 10 customers who have the lowest package but used cloned modems + certain tv boxes in the household ;)
Take grimsby for example....that used to be an area where practically every household had 2-4 modems + 2-4 tv boxes...
LOL you have no idea just how wrong you are.
Over 35% of the VM network is made up of cloners, most of which are customers paying for the lowest tier package and then using a cloned modem to get the 20Mbit config.
Why do you think there was such a huge hit to stop the modems not so long aog? they wouldnt of bothered if it was .3% :rolleyes:
Trax
Can you back this up with clear undisputed factual data. I don't believe you can or have any intention of doing so
Just remember, it's pretty common place that for every customer that has the lowest package, there is another 10 customers who have the lowest package but used cloned modems + certain tv boxes in the household ;)
Take grimsby for example....that used to be an area where practically every household had 2-4 modems + 2-4 tv boxes...
also remember even though the stores people might be bad at counting and a few scallys might have stolen a few 700,000 have not gone missing.
---------- Post added at 15:24 ---------- Previous post was at 15:22 ----------
Trax
Can you back this up with clear undisputed factual data. I don't believe you can or have any intention of doing so
no of course he cant i think he just wants front page at the register again :p:
zing_deleted
09-07-2008, 15:27
Trax
Can you back this up with clear undisputed factual data. I don't believe you can or have any intention of doing so
I for one would not be surprised by this.
---------- Post added at 15:27 ---------- Previous post was at 15:26 ----------
also remember even though the stores people might be bad at counting and a few scallys might have stolen a few 700,000 have not gone missing.
---------- Post added at 15:24 ---------- Previous post was at 15:22 ----------
no of course he cant i think he just wants front page at the register again :p:
VM not picking up modems is not unusual. I had 2 motorolas from the early days until I tipped them recently both could have been cloned if I so deemed fit but I am an honest man ;)
trax dont normally get involved with your postings, but come on, how do you expect people to believe comments like that, & how long will the mod's allow you to band figures about like they are the truth, when there is nothign to back them up.
no doubting you've been right about things before, but perspective needs to be taken with comments like the above..
Take grimsby for example....that used to be an area where practically every household had 2-4 modems + 2-4 tv boxes...
Grimsby has a population of just over 80k, about 60% is serviceable of grismby, so your advising that about 45k people in grismby are happy to steal services ? ( quick fag packet maths )
PeteTheMusicGuy
09-07-2008, 15:31
LOL you have no idea just how wrong you are.
Over 35% of the VM network is made up of cloners, most of which are customers paying for the lowest tier package and then using a cloned modem to get the 20Mbit config.
Why do you think there was such a huge hit to stop the modems not so long aog? they wouldnt of bothered if it was .3% :rolleyes:
I thought it was more closer to 50 that 35 but thats still far too much:)
@barfly
ive just noticed your location mate...do you live near trax?
also remember even though the stores people might be bad at counting and a few scallys might have stolen a few 700,000 have not gone missing.
They dont have to go missing. With the right software they can use any modem they want to.
I have seen samsungs, Motorola, Ambit, cisco modems for sale in the pubs and on Ebay all with 20 meg on them all confirmed to work.
They leaflet drop in my area then come round and set it up for you. :mad:
You can go to a well known computer fair in Manchester and get a modem and settop package if you want.
Have to agree that 700000 is a little over the top :LOL:
I have asked this before but here we go again
So how many of those that received a letter (bpi file sharing)would have been sent one not because they have been using Torrents but because someone using a cloned modem with there mac address had been using Torrents ?????
And to add to that what would there position be in a court of Law if there had to defend themselves ???.
They dont have to go missing. With the right software they can use any modem they want to.
I have seen samsungs, Motorola, Ambit, cisco modems for sale in the pubs and on Ebay all with 20 meg on them all confirmed to work.
They leaflet drop in my area then come round and set it up for you. :mad:
You can go to a well known computer fair in Manchester and get a modem and settop package if you want.
Have to agree that 700000 is a little over the top :LOL:
I have asked this before but here we go again
Quote:
So how many of those that received a letter (bpi file sharing)would have been sent one not because they have been using Torrents but because someone using a cloned modem with there mac address had been using Torrents ?????
And to add to that what would there position be in a court of Law if there had to defend themselves
in answer to your question the burden of proof appears in this case to be on the accused, guilty until proved innocent because the isp and bpi said so!!
in answer to your question the burden of proof appears in this case to be on the accused, guilty until proved innocent because the isp nad bpi said so!!
Sorry the question was not aim at you but at all.
The problem with cloned modems is that someone could end up with a big fine because they had no idea that some thieving **** bag has stolen there Mac address and is downloading from the torrent sites in perfect safety, Because the original owner of the Mac address and ip will be the one that gets the letter.
zing_deleted
09-07-2008, 16:06
all it takes is 1 precedent to be set where a defendant can convince a court that the crime was not committed by them. TBH proving illegal data transfer to or from the pc would be easy simply by inspecting the hdds on said defendants machines which the police would do in the case of criminal prosecution or the defendant could request in the case of civil.
Stuart W
09-07-2008, 16:07
Colour me stupid, but how does the same MAC address connect to the same network TWICE?
By my understanding, if someone had my modem cloned somewhere, EITHER he could connect OR me.
How could we both get any IP routing done if there are 2 identical hardware addresses on the same network?
Colour me stupid, but how does the same MAC address connect to the same network TWICE?
By my understanding, if someone had my modem cloned somewhere, EITHER he could connect OR me.
How could we both get any IP routing done if there are 2 identical hardware addresses on the same network?
To be honest if that information was given out here i think the mods will remove it (Its just to much information). The cloners have found ways and means to keep themselves supplied with daily fresh supplies of mac address's. They have ways of keeping there modems working just the same as they have ways of keeping there Settops working when ever there is a change in the system. :mad:
pip08456
09-07-2008, 17:49
Colour me stupid, but how does the same MAC address connect to the same network TWICE?
By my understanding, if someone had my modem cloned somewhere, EITHER he could connect OR me.
How could we both get any IP routing done if there are 2 identical hardware addresses on the same network?
The network is devided into areas, it means 1 MAC address per area therefore you could have over 100 cloned modems all with the same MAC address as long as they are in different areas.
Stuart W
09-07-2008, 18:19
Then Virgin have only themselves to blame.
If it was my network, I'd make sure ALL MAC addresses stay in my own ARP table.
Problem solved.
Chrysalis
10-07-2008, 07:05
35% of 2 million = 700,000 cloned modems... ok you win:erm:
sounds about right, I know 20 odd people cloning. Its like a plague in some areas. In addition there is kids mums selling dodgy tv boxes to other parents at the school my sister takes her kids to and they managing to sell some every day.
this post is getting slightly OTT. let's calm down?
btw -- i just had some kellogs with sugar. :D
Doesn't VM have a phoneline to anonymously leave information about users and sellers of cloned modems?
If not, why not?
There is a fraud dept. Ring CS and they'll put you through.
mark233a
10-07-2008, 09:29
I don't really think VM care about these cloned modems, it would be very easy to setup some sort of mechanism to scan and drop these modems or even restrict mac to certain areas. After all they have invested a lot of money in to their STM software.
broadbandbug
10-07-2008, 10:42
I don't really think VM care about these cloned modems, it would be very easy to setup some sort of mechanism to scan and drop these modems or even restrict mac to certain areas. After all they have invested a lot of money in to their STM software.
It can and has been done... There are other network issues that are stopping a full network deployment..
These are being dealt with and once in place the full rollout will be re-commenced.
sarcastixx
10-07-2008, 15:58
[Moderators edit post deleted do not give information on how to steal cable this will not be tolerated]
Angry@VMedia
10-07-2008, 15:59
Now I'm sure at least most of the post above is NOT allowed to be discussed on here
Mod/Admin informed!
TraxData
11-07-2008, 15:49
It can and has been done... There are other network issues that are stopping a full network deployment..
These are being dealt with and once in place the full rollout will be re-commenced.
And we will give it a month before they find a new way around it.
It would be alot eaiser to permanent disconnect them (properly, not just unplug @ UBR, cut far enough down so it cant be re connected)
all it takes is 1 precedent to be set where a defendant can convince a court that the crime was not committed by them. TBH proving illegal data transfer to or from the pc would be easy simply by inspecting the hdds on said defendants machines which the police would do in the case of criminal prosecution or the defendant could request in the case of civil.
The customer could do this himself before it even got that far if he had the cash, then present that data to the judge at the court hearing.
Now that would have a very interesting outcome.
broadbandbug
11-07-2008, 18:57
And we will give it a month before they find a new way around it.
It would be alot eaiser to permanent disconnect them (properly, not just unplug @ UBR, cut far enough down so it cant be re connected)
Would be best.. But then they couldnt have a 'quick start' process for connecting properties that have previously been connected.
TraxData
11-07-2008, 19:00
Would be best.. But then they couldnt have a 'quick start' process for connecting properties that have previously been connected.
Considering the amount of money that would be saved by cutting cloners off it shouldnt be so much of a problem.
The customer could do this himself before it even got that far if he had the cash, then present that data to the judge at the court hearing.
Now that would have a very interesting outcome.
And you can bet there are members of this forum that have the knowledge to be able to stand up in court and defend themselves fully should they get a letter and they believe that there modems mac address could have been cloned and used for file sharing.
For instance i keep a full record of the data through my modem in graphical and text format and can show when i have been STM'd and yet there have been NO throughput all day due to my PC being switched off.
A look at what i store in my router.
xspeedyx
11-07-2008, 19:12
93+GB sirius WOW
TraxData
11-07-2008, 19:14
93+GB sirius WOW
I dont keep router stats/logs anymore, no need.
But this is my giga stats from just 1 day (fresh format)
Download Failed (1)
So yes, sirius is a light user ;)
93+gb sirius wow
ssshhh :)
Dont tell everyone
Blue ray :Sprint:
pip08456
12-07-2008, 16:06
A cloned modem would never cause anyone to be accused of illegal file sharing nor would it cause STM problems for the legitamate customer. The clone would have a MAC address from a modem in a different area of the network.
this is why we have this traffic management thing in place, if they got of there arses and did something about it, it would beneifit the real customers more.
TraxData
12-07-2008, 16:22
this is why we have this traffic management thing in place, if they got of there arses and did something about it, it would beneifit the real customers more.
No, we have traffic management in place because VM cannot afford to upgrade the network to suit the new speeds, its much easier (and cheaper) to just put on traffic management and then put the basic minimum amount of money into getting the network upgraded.
pip08456
12-07-2008, 16:30
this is why we have this traffic management thing in place, if they got of there arses and did something about it, it would beneifit the real customers more.
Got to agree there. I don't condone cloning of any kind but at least I'm informed about it and don't blame that for me having been STM'D in the past when I was with VM.
A cloned modem would never cause anyone to be accused of illegal file sharing nor would it cause STM problems for the legitamate customer. The clone would have a MAC address from a modem in a different area of the network.
No
If your mac is used then its YOUR mac that will be associated with the ip address at the dhcp level no matter which part of the network its on.
if they clone your mac 001122334455 then it is 001122334455 that will be tagged to the ip address when VM check the dhcp records
No, we have traffic management in place because VM cannot afford to upgrade the network to suit the new speeds, its much easier (and cheaper) to just put on traffic management and then put the basic minimum amount of money into getting the network upgraded.
Curious here, you say that STM is a means to keep upgrading costs to a minimum, what differences to network speed/capacity then does a minimum spend provide as opposed to a full spend?
Curious here, you say that STM is a means to keep upgrading costs to a minimum, what differences to network speed/capacity then does a minimum spend provide as opposed to a full spend?
i think he means they won't upgrade there systems, as new custoers join, the servers are getting more packed, and using more data.. so there are limiting us to this now, there faulse advertising..in a way.. but there doing it in a cleaver way.. there not stopping your services, only cutting the download..
so a game that would take 10 minutes to download, would ake 4 hours instead... i'm thinking of making a complaint towards this to the government about CO2 Levels, wasting electricity, due to us having to leave our PC's on longer to beable to download something we should beable to download within 20 minutes... the guy i spoke to (Rob i think it was) said take it to watch dog....
i think he means they won't upgrade there systems, as new custoers join, the servers are getting more packed, and using more data.. so there are limiting us to this now, there faulse advertising..in a way.. but there doing it in a cleaver way.. there not stopping your services, only cutting the download..
so a game that would take 10 minutes to download, would ake 4 hours instead... i'm thinking of making a complaint towards this to the government about CO2 Levels, wasting electricity, due to us having to leave our PC's on longer to beable to download something we should beable to download within 20 minutes... the guy i spoke to (Rob i think it was) said take it to watch dog....
:rolleyes:
You are not the only person experiencing such problems, k?
Impz2002
12-07-2008, 21:43
A cloned modem would never cause anyone to be accused of illegal file sharing nor would it cause STM problems for the legitamate customer. The clone would have a MAC address from a modem in a different area of the network.
Afaik a cloned modem will not trigger STM on the original connection as it is on a different node and therefore will have its own STM limit.
Impz
Yes!! Over a THIRD of ntl's network is taken up from non-paying users!! :tiptoe:
Just remember, it's pretty common place that for every customer that has the lowest package, there is another 10 customers who have the lowest package but used cloned modems + certain tv boxes in the household
Take grimsby for example....that used to be an area where practically every household had 2-4 modems + 2-4 tv boxes...
Seriously.
No, wait... I can't be bothered.
:nutter:
grubbymitts
13-07-2008, 06:42
But this is my giga stats from just 1 day (fresh format)
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/3770/statsyw2.jpg
We have STM because people like you download 253.5gb in one day! The same people who seem to come on here and spread gossip with no backup data whatsoever. 35% cloned network my stinking backside. Trax, one day an admin/mod on here is going to realise what utter nonsense you talk and just ban you. The sooner that day comes, the better.
We have STM because people like you download 253.5gb in one day! The same people who seem to come on here and spread gossip with no backup data whatsoever. 35% cloned network my stinking backside. Trax, one day an admin/mod on here is going to realise what utter nonsense you talk and just ban you. The sooner that day comes, the better.
I think you'll find that Trax isn't on the VM network, otherwise he'd be bitching day after day about STM :)
grubbymitts
13-07-2008, 07:48
unless he still has an unlimited business account of course...
if he isn't, then he should just bugger off the forum and go to somewhere that caters for the network he is on.
CableForum isn't limited to VM customers. Since he's also an ex-employee - AFAIK - he can be a valuable source of information.
CableForum isn't limited to VM customers. Since he's also an ex-employee - AFAIK - he can be a valuable source of information.
Certainly true, as long as the information can be verified as correct.
---------- Post added at 08:29 ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 ----------
No
If your mac is used then its YOUR mac that will be associated with the ip address at the dhcp level no matter which part of the network its on.
if they clone your mac 001122334455 then it is 001122334455 that will be tagged to the ip address when VM check the dhcp records
That raises two points.
1) STM is applied at the UBR level of your connection, therefore if your MAC IS cloned on a different UBR, and the cloner triggers the STM threshhold on that UBR, then its the cloner who will be affected. After all if your modem has been cloned, you're not getting the benefit of the cloner bandwidth are you? ;)
2) In relation to a cloned MAC address, whilst it appears that this goes on, it seems to have been overlooked that you can't have the same IP address assigned to both modems. Therefore, it is likely that VM can see if a modem has been cloned when it sees overlapping DHCP lease IP assignments and that one IP address is not assigned to the customers regional DHCP server. How this would apply to STM I'm not sure.
I know STM is not popular with some, but I don't think VM are stupid enough not to factor in the possibility of a cloned modem.
Worrying thing too, the figure of 35% of the network being cloned has been banded about by someone, that's about 1M CM customers??? I'm sure that's incorrect.
Just a few thoughts I had this morning. :)
2) In relation to a cloned MAC address, whilst it appears that this goes on, it seems to have been overlooked that you can't have the same IP address assigned to both modems.
Agreed but read below as far as Torrents and File sharing goes.
Therefore, it is likely that VM can see if a modem has been cloned when it sees overlapping DHCP lease IP assignments and that one IP address is not assigned to the customers regional DHCP server. How this would apply to STM I'm not sure.
Again agreed as regard to STM,
However when it comes to File sharing its a different matter as the BPI will just send in a IP address, Someone at VM (who could be very overworked) will then look at that IP address and trace it to its mac address, Guess who's account they will see when they do the cross reference ????. If there had been no alligation of cloning on that account would the person at VM even bother to look at all the DHCP data to see if there was a record of an other mac on a different local section of the segment.
Worrying thing too, the figure of 35% of the network being cloned has been banded about by someone, that's about 1M CM customers??? I'm sure that's incorrect
That figure seems a bit over the top to me as well. :LOL:
Your right about cloned modems and STM however this next bit is slightly off topic but it has to be said Sorry
However i don't agree as far as BPI letters and cloned macs go. If that customer who received a letter has never used any type of file sharing then it must potentially point to a cloned modem, However would VM have checked for that before they sent out a letter potentially accusing someone of something they never did.
I don't use file sharing system that requires you to upload and download at the same time on an open and insecure server (i use news groups), Therefor if i was to get a letter relating to torrent use for instance i certainly would be asking for any information relating to cloning.
Because for me to get a letter it should relate to my usage on newsgroups and that would open up a whole new ball game about how they received that information.
Agreed but read below as far as Torrents and File sharing goes.
Again agreed as regard to STM,
However when it comes to File sharing its a different matter as the BPI will just send in a IP address, Someone at VM (who could be very overworked) will then look at that IP address and trace it to its mac address, Guess who's account they will see when they do the cross reference ????. If there had been no alligation of cloning on that account would the person at VM even bother to look at all the DHCP data to see if there was a record of an other mac on a different local section of the segment.
That figure seems a bit over the top to me as well. :LOL:
Your right about cloned modems and STM however this next bit is slightly off topic but it has to be said Sorry
However i don't agree as far as BPI letters and cloned macs go. If that customer who received a letter has never used any type of file sharing then it must potentially point to a cloned modem, However would VM have checked for that before they sent out a letter potentially accusing someone of something they never did.
I don't use file sharing system that requires you to upload and download at the same time on an open and insecure server (i use news groups), Therefor if i was to get a letter relating to torrent use for instance i certainly would be asking for any information relating to cloning.
Because for me to get a letter it should relate to my usage on newsgroups and that would open up a whole new ball game about how they received that information.
You're right.
We could surmise given the recent press about the letter itself (or rather the sticker on it) that every care is being taken now to make sure that the account contacted was not the victim of a cloned modem.
You should stop harking on about USENET downloads, the BPI are not targeting that arena, and stop trying to slip in the DPI argument either, naughty boy. :)
Berealwith
13-07-2008, 10:57
Your right about cloned modems and STM however this next bit is slightly off topic but it has to be said Sorry
However i don't agree as far as BPI letters and cloned macs go. If that customer who received a letter has never used any type of file sharing then it must potentially point to a cloned modem, However would VM have checked for that before they sent out a letter potentially accusing someone of something they never did.
I don't use file sharing system that requires you to upload and download at the same time on an open and insecure server (i use news groups), Therefor if i was to get a letter relating to torrent use for instance i certainly would be asking for any information relating to cloning.
Because for me to get a letter it should relate to my usage on newsgroups and that would open up a whole new ball game about how they received that information.
I wondered about this Sirius
But to get back on topic. I have left Virgrim a few months ago, i got my last phone call from them and true to form it was another let down.
The reason for this was. I was aksed to be at home friday pm after 12 midday, so someone could pick up my STB, and yes i waited in and no one came
I also asked if they were going to pick up my two cable modems.
So i have two cable modems and one STB sat at home with me and Virgrim cannot be bothered to pick them up that was weeks ago.
So my point is, some people i know use cloned set top's and cloned modems. They give me "so with all you whinning about Virgrim i bet your on cloned stuff now". Not a chance my reply, that's what is slowly killing the network. Now if they cannot be bothered to pick thier stuff up on your disconnection day why dont they just re-configure the modem and brick it !!!!
Oh in case you are wondering i took all the cables out of my house to the street i was that mad about the way i was treated by Virgrim, and i dont recommend them to anyone. As they are a crap outfit
Impz2002
13-07-2008, 11:04
It obviously isn't easy for VM to check DHCP records to see weather the same mac has leased an IP address on another node of the network as if they had easy access to this data it would be much easier to disconnect cloned modems. It wouldn't surprise me if they didn't check anything when they get a BPI request as it isn't a formal pursuit for damages.
VM will only do the bare minimum required and we have seen this time and time again !
Impz
You should stop harking on about USENET downloads, the BPI are not targeting that arena, and stop trying to slip in the DPI argument either, naughty boy. :)
Oh come on i have to have some fun :)
TraxData
13-07-2008, 12:39
We have STM because people like you download 253.5gb in one day! The same people who seem to come on here and spread gossip with no backup data whatsoever. 35% cloned network my stinking backside. Trax, one day an admin/mod on here is going to realise what utter nonsense you talk and just ban you. The sooner that day comes, the better.
1)I havent been with VM for sometime now.
2)No, we have STM because VM dont want to upgrade the network to handle how big the net is getting (unless your stuck in the 90s thinking files are still 5mb :rolleyes:)
3)Most of that data is legal (server to server backup, distro uploading to FTP, database backup and a few other things)
4)My ISP dont care if i download that much in a day because its fibre and they have a good core network, i know people that do more.
5)It was 35% at last count (before all the hits), believe whatever you want but there was a reason VM had to hit so many modems in such short time, i think you'll find most cloners have the basic minimum package (2Mbit) as well as to not look suspicious, i think you should go to a place like sheffield or parts of nottingham or even better, grimsby and see just how many cloners there are, it's bloody charming, if there wasnt -that- many cloners why do you think the network suddenly speeded up so much when they got kicked off? oh wait...because its only a small percentage of people doing it :rolleyes:
6)If your talking about webuser, i have corrected them (and scanned documents as proof) :D
---------- Post added at 12:39 ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 ----------
Yes!! Over a THIRD of ntl's network is taken up from non-paying users!! :tiptoe:
Seriously.
No, wait... I can't be bothered.
:nutter:
I suggest you re-read, most cloners are people who pay for minimum packages.
I suggest you re-read, most cloners are people who pay for minimum packages.
That makes about 1million cloners on the VM network, sticking my neck out here I'd have to say..............extremely unlikely.
TraxData
13-07-2008, 13:04
That makes about 1million cloners on the VM network, sticking my neck out here I'd have to say..............extremely unlikely.
Do you really think if it was a small percentage like VM tell people they would of even bothered to pour so MUCH money into stopping them? the amount spent wouldnt of even touched over the amount they were losing. :rolleyes:
Do you really think if it was a small percentage like VM tell people they would of even bothered to pour so MUCH money into stopping them? the amount spent wouldnt of even touched over the amount they were losing. :rolleyes:
OK, what have you got to back that up?
grubbymitts
13-07-2008, 20:02
Trax,
So you're not on VM anymore - fine. You also, as far as I'm aware, don't work for VM. So, instead of saying "35%" "1 in every 10" etc, back it up with actual proof or stop interrupting threads with pointless information.
The OP of this thread wanted to know if his modem had been cloned and that was why it was slow. The answer to this was unlikely, and it may be some other problem. You wade in to the discussion and throw numbers about and accuse a vast majority of the Grimsby VM subscribers to have once been or still are cloners. Yet you show no evidence.
Show the evidence and I'll believe you. Until then, meh!
I suggest you re-read, most cloners are people who pay for minimum packages.
If you want to be pedantic to cling onto the 'validity' of your 'facts' then I will point and be pedantic myself in saying that if somebody is using a cloned modem then they are using a service which they haven't paid for....now let me just check what I previously said...
...oh yes!! Exactly that.
TraxData
14-07-2008, 01:27
stop interrupting threads with pointless information.
Okie Dokie, i give up.
MovedGoalPosts
14-07-2008, 02:06
Stop going after each other and debate the posts with out flaming and baiting please.
Jonathan90
14-07-2008, 03:43
tbh i never doubted traxdata can someone find some information that he has posted wrong? i can't there probably is but whatever he says it normally happens
the op's<--(what does this mean) question maybe check your uplaod speed to check see if u have really been capped or if there are other people in your household just for one day take your modem with you lol then u know for a FACT that noone has downlaoded enything.
Cobbydaler
14-07-2008, 06:55
tbh i never doubted traxdata can someone find some information that he has posted wrong? i can't there probably is but whatever he says it normally happens
the op's<--(what does this mean) question maybe check your uplaod speed to check see if u have really been capped or if there are other people in your household just for one day take your modem with you lol then u know for a FACT that noone has downlaoded enything.
OP = Original Poster, the person who started the thread.
broadbandbug
15-07-2008, 12:28
tbh i never doubted traxdata can someone find some information that he has posted wrong? i can't there probably is but whatever he says it normally happens
the op's<--(what does this mean) question maybe check your uplaod speed to check see if u have really been capped or if there are other people in your household just for one day take your modem with you lol then u know for a FACT that noone has downlaoded enything.
Yes.. In fact there are rumours that TraxData is infact a Deity that we should all hail from on high as the bringer of VM news that is never wrong or made up:D
Anyone ever considered maybe Trax was giving 35% bandwidth? Not users....
Say VM had 1,000 users all on 2Mb, And had a network capacity of 2Gb. This means all users would have guaranteed 2Mb connections.
Now, 35% of 2,000Mb is 700Mb. So, 700Mb of extra data, that they didn't expect nor cater for.
So, effectively, they now have 2,700Mb data in a 2,000Mb bandwidth window.
See where the problems occur here?
VM have about 3.5Million broadband users... Most of them on the slower packages, and i'm guessing nearly all of the cloners are on the fake 20Mb packages. So, less bandwidth used by real customers, vs. more bandwidth used by non-customers.
Also, what happened to Trax's account?
His account's been deleted, by the looks of things.
broadbandbug
15-07-2008, 13:09
Anyone ever considered maybe Trax was giving 35% bandwidth? Not users....
Say VM had 1,000 users all on 2Mb, And had a network capacity of 2Gb. This means all users would have guaranteed 2Mb connections.
Now, 35% of 2,000Mb is 700Mb. So, 700Mb of extra data, that they didn't expect nor cater for.
So, effectively, they now have 2,700Mb data in a 2,000Mb bandwidth window.
See where the problems occur here?
VM have about 3.5Million broadband users... Most of them on the slower packages, and i'm guessing nearly all of the cloners are on the fake 20Mb packages. So, less bandwidth used by real customers, vs. more bandwidth used by non-customers.
Also, what happened to Trax's account?
No, I have conversed with him on the matter and he does mean 'devices'.
In my mind he is very high in his estimations but have the same amount of data that he has to base this on:)
Virgin Bride
15-07-2008, 15:35
His account's been deleted, by the looks of things.
....and it's his birthday today.....
....and it's his birthday today.....
social drama. haha. on a more serious note, why generalise? do you access to internal stats? hurm ....
Chrysalis
15-07-2008, 16:11
its sad to see trax has been censored I would like to think this site hasnt got a bias.
We have no idea how accurate the 35% is, but factor in he used to work for ntl and would have been in a position to know, the 35% is a past figure which may well be lower now. My own take on things is that I know dodgy tv boxes are very widespread, I know more people with cloned modems than legit modems (seriously) and he is quite right that if it was only a small % then VM wouldnt care one bit.
its sad to see trax has been censored I would like to think this site hasnt got a bias.
We have no idea how accurate the 35% is, but factor in he used to work for ntl and would have been in a position to know, the 35% is a past figure which may well be lower now. My own take on things is that I know dodgy tv boxes are very widespread, I know more people with cloned modems than legit modems (seriously) and he is quite right that if it was only a small % then VM wouldnt care one bit.
er, it's not for us to speculate what's happened... let's move on to something more civilized... ;)
MovedGoalPosts
15-07-2008, 16:21
:notopic: TraxData requested his account be deleted.
His account's been deleted, by the looks of things.
....and it's his birthday today.....
Hardly "Many happy returns" then?
:D
Edit: Hope he reappears as a new alias (and less of the glare of unwanted publicity).
MovedGoalPosts
15-07-2008, 16:24
Time to return to the topic now please.
His account's been deleted, by the looks of things.
:shocked:
its sad to see trax has been censored I would like to think this site hasnt got a bias.
We have no idea how accurate the 35% is, but factor in he used to work for ntl and would have been in a position to know, the 35% is a past figure which may well be lower now. My own take on things is that I know dodgy tv boxes are very widespread, I know more people with cloned modems than legit modems (seriously) and he is quite right that if it was only a small % then VM wouldnt care one bit.
Just to clarify, i havent been censored, i did request for my account to be deleted.
It was not due to anyone on here or anything public, my health is just very bad right now to the point where i no longer have time nor the will power to keep fighting on as i have more important things in my life to try and get back on track (health, gf, alot of things going on).
The 35% Was accurate at the last count, that was just before all the hits went out, i know it was a significent drop after that and as i'm sure some of you know, alot of peoples speeds shot up to what they should be, except in area's where the network is falling apart of course.
In alot of places you only had to walk up to a local tech and he'd sell you a modem/tv box, or the pub, or the market, pretty much everywhere really, the reason they had to stop it is because it got so huge and was causing big amounts of strain on the network with some people running 4 x cloned modems for the upload speed while having 4 talkback cable tv boxes also, the worst of it all for the most part was the amount of extra noise this created in those area's which is down alot now.
I entierly agree with you trax i have seen how widespread it is now and how easy you can get this kit, vm really need to have a serious re-think about so many upcoming issues or they are in some serious deep stuff especially in this economic climate.
Nedkelly
17-07-2008, 06:18
Trax is right it is to easy for techs to sell stuff .But we have seen some contractors sacked as they can not account for missing boxes which is good and we have had our doubts on some techs but could not prove it .:confused:
Trax is right it is to easy for techs to sell stuff .But we have seen some contractors sacked as they can not account for missing boxes which is good and we have had our doubts on some techs but could not prove it .:confused:
:LOL:
The other day there was a card in Morrison's here on the buy and sell board.
Want cable ?
Have the full package and Broadband all for a one off fee. Then there was a mobile number. Its gone now but someone round here must be making a small fortune. Think of the exposure an add in Morrison's would get.
Its a first for here using Morrison's, Normally they just leaflet drop through the door.
From what i can gather there using a completely different box altogether from the VM issued ones.
Zhadnost
17-07-2008, 11:13
I've never met anyone who has a cloned modem/TV box, but I have seen a man in a pub wearing a virgin media jacket selling a TV box.
I wonder what the figure is more like now.
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.