Tech Support/Customer Care Having a Laugh (again)

[Uncle Peter]

Fell victim to the outage in the Warrington/Stoke area early today so I gave TS a ring just after everything went pear shaped to report the potential fault or at least check if an area fault had been reported. This was around 6PM

Got through to chap, usual questions:

sync light - check,
ready light - check,
can you access the VM homepage? No, that's why I am ringing and in any case your own service status message states that some users may have difficulty accessing it.

The guy seemed to be baffled at this point as to why I was unable to browse any website, check mail etc at which point I was told that my internet wasn't working because I hadn't paid my bill. Heated conversation with customer care followed at which point the drone conceded that my bill had indeed been paid in full as it always is. I just gave up in the end as I'm running out of brick walls to bash my head against.

[whydoIneedatech]

Fell victim to the outage in the Warrington/Stoke area early today so I gave TS a ring just after everything went pear shaped to report the potential fault or at least check if an area fault had been reported. This was around 6PM

Got through to chap, usual questions:

sync light - check,
ready light - check,
can you access the VM homepage? No, that's why I am ringing and in any case your own service status message states that some users may have difficulty accessing it.

The guy seemed to be baffled at this point as to why I was unable to browse any website, check mail etc at which point I was told that my internet wasn't working because I hadn't paid my bill. Heated conversation with customer care followed at which point the drone conceded that my bill had indeed been paid in full as it always is. I just gave up in the end as I'm running out of brick walls to bash my head against.

I am sorry you come across an agent like that, we are not all like that!

Before mentioning anything about your bill I do hope he asked some personal verification questions to ensure that he was actually talking to the Account Holder, otherwise that was a breach of DPA.

[WHISTLED]

Before mentioning anything about your bill I do hope he asked some personal verification questions to ensure that he was actually talking to the Account Holder, otherwise that was a breach of DPA. Whats that got to do with anything? Why even bring that up?

[whydoIneedatech]

Whats that got to do with anything? Why even bring that up?

Because bringing up the issue of a possible unpaid bill has nothing to do with any troubleshooting that should have been taking place.

Because the Tech told that the OP had not paid his bill, he cannot mention anything like that without first clearing DPA with the OP.

If the is a problem with a bill it is best to transfer the caller to the relevant department and not to get involved with account details.

It seems more likely the Tech was clutching at straws by saying the bill was unpaid, and we know from the OP that his bil was paid up to date.

[moaningmags]

Besides all of this the tech should have known about email, webspace, and virginmedia homepage problems tonight.

[Welshchris]

Because bringing up the issue of a possible unpaid bill has nothing to do with any troubleshooting that should have been taking place.

Because the Tech told that the OP had not paid his bill, he cannot mention anything like that without first clearing DPA with the OP.

If the is a problem with a bill it is best to transfer the caller to the relevant department and not to get involved with account details.

It seems more likely the Tech was clutching at straws by saying the bill was unpaid, and we know from the OP that his bil was paid up to date.

a member of ur chief execs office used to ring here all the time and chat to my partner when i was the account holder and out of all the times he range cos my problem went on from Nov 2007 - March 2008 he rang atleast 10+ times only once he ever asked for account details.

[r00t]

a member of ur chief execs office used to ring here all the time and chat to my partner when i was the account holder and out of all the times he range cos my problem went on from Nov 2007 - March 2008 he rang atleast 10+ times only once he ever asked for account details.

Means nothing Chris.

One rule for one and one rule for another. Thats VM ;)

[whydoIneedatech]

a member of ur chief execs office used to ring here all the time and chat to my partner when i was the account holder and out of all the times he range cos my problem went on from Nov 2007 - March 2008 he rang atleast 10+ times only once he ever asked for account details.

Well he did ask once and probably felt that was enough;)

[Uncle Peter]

This is the third time I have called to report or enquire about a potential area fault and basically been fobbed off. While it's probably not the agent's fault that he/she has not been aware of any potential area wide issues it is not right to assume there's a problem with the customer's account or equipment. Last time I called about this type of problem I was told that I'd require an engineer visit: the actual problem was CMTS side and affecting a whole area.

Tonight's problem actually came up on the system status phone messages 5 minutes before it was fixed, I make that nearly 2 hours after the problem occured. If there was an effective communication and referral mechanism between tech support and the network operations people it would save both VM and customers a lot of wasted time.

[webcrawler2050]

Just get used to it. VM are going down the pan, they are just back to their old NTL ways (pants) but with a "better" name.

[whydoIneedatech]

This is the third time I have called to report or enquire about a potential area fault and basically been fobbed off. While it's probably not the agent's fault that he/she has not been aware of any potential area wide issues it is not right to assume there's a problem with the customer's account or equipment. Last time I called about this type of problem I was told that I'd require an engineer visit: the actual problem was CMTS side and affecting a whole area.

Tonight's problem actually came up on the system status phone messages 5 minutes before it was fixed, I make that nearly 2 hours after the problem occured. If there was an effective communication and referral mechanism between tech support and the network operations people it would save both VM and customers a lot of wasted time.

The tools we have at our disposal and our experience should stop the likes of your experience happening.

Was your Tech a UK based one or do you think he was based Offshore.

[handyman]

I am sorry you come across an agent like that, we are not all like that!

Before mentioning anything about your bill I do hope he asked some personal verification questions to ensure that he was actually talking to the Account Holder, otherwise that was a breach of DPA.

Do you actually know what the dpa covers? Providing tech support does not fall foul of that. You only need to cover dpa if you are making changes to the account.

If some one called up and said their modem was not working and you helped them reinstall their drivers etc then you are not giving confidential account information over the phone.

I wish some people would not spout out rubbish some times. What your describing is Virgins methods of tech support that have zero to do with dpa and at times zero to do with helping the customer.

http://www.aimhigher.ac.uk/practitioner/resources/Data_protection_fact_sheet.pdf

As for the numpty techies, trust me I worked there for 3 years and there are plenty. No doubt many more now that most of the tech support is based in a country that does not have cable broadband.

[ceedee]

Do you actually know what the dpa covers? Providing tech support does not fall foul of that. You only need to cover dpa if you are making changes to the account.

Your post suggests that you haven't bothered reading the thread AND you haven't a clue what the DPA is about!
:td:

[Uncle Peter]

To clear things up: I spoke to the offshore team and yes the customer care rep did ask the relevant security questions. Not sure what this has to do with tech support's inability to accept that a customer's problem may actually be due to an unreported area fault.

[kstone]

20Meg, V+ , phoneline 55+ quid a month.

Tech Support with VM... Priceless


Mines been down and flakey for about a Month.
I have been told it is....


My Modems broken
My Set top box is too hot
My Set top Box has crashed and needs restarting
Theres Local outage in the area
Bad Cable inside my House
Bad cable outside my house
Rolling out new software


I even had one guys say to me 'I'm just downloading new software to your box and getting a drink of water'

He then hung up.

Beyond Clueless...

[whydoIneedatech]

Do you actually know what the dpa covers? Providing tech support does not fall foul of that. You only need to cover dpa if you are making changes to the account.

If some one called up and said their modem was not working and you helped them reinstall their drivers etc then you are not giving confidential account information over the phone.

I wish some people would not spout out rubbish some times. What your describing is Virgins methods of tech support that have zero to do with dpa and at times zero to do with helping the customer.

http://www.aimhigher.ac.uk/practitioner/resources/Data_protection_fact_sheet.pdf

As for the numpty techies, trust me I worked there for 3 years and there are plenty. No doubt many more now that most of the tech support is based in a country that does not have cable broadband.

Are we talking about the Albert Dock in Liverpool which has seen Tech Support staff increase by over a hundred since December or are you just making assumptions that all staff are in India because it sounds good.



So as far you are concerned it would be OK if you were speaking to me about a fault and because I find no fault I then decide to say " you have not paid your bill sir that's why you are offline" well that is not allowed because first you have to prove that you are actually speaking to the account holder.

You do this by asking a question that only the account holder should know and if they answer correctly they clear DPA.

Even then if the was an account problem, I would then either transfer them to the correct department or ask them to call them as I would be unable to discuss such details.

What would you prefer and be honest, a customer service rep who will say anything to get you off the phone, or a customer service rep who follows correct Company procedures, I think the answer is obvious.

Do not forget we are talking about Company Procedures that protect the public from misinformation, read the thread and you will understand what I am talking about rather than posting a link.

[piggy]

[QUOTE=kstone;34588830]20Meg, V+ , phoneline 55+ quid a month.

Tech Support with VM... Priceless


Mines been down and flakey for about a Month.
I have been told it is....


My Modems broken
My Set top box is too hot
My Set top Box has crashed and needs restarting
Theres Local outage in the area
Bad Cable inside my House
Bad cable outside my house
Rolling out new software


I even had one guys say to me 'I'm just downloading new software to your box and getting a drink of water'

He then hung up.

Beyond Clueless...[/QUOTE



if this post is true then virgin are home and dry if your willing to pay for such drivel dont blame the company just move!!

[handyman]

Your post suggests that you haven't bothered reading the thread AND you haven't a clue what the DPA is about!
:td:

I did read the thread. I'm also able to distinguish between the data protection act and Virgins procedures for technical support.

Are we talking about the Albert Dock in Liverpool which has seen Tech Support staff increase by over a hundred since December or are you just making assumptions that all staff are in India because it sounds good.

Cool, Reduce 13 call centres full of experienced staff to 3, then merge with Telewest. After that try to reduce the centre count further and supplement this with overseas outsourcing. Net result is a reduction in the quality of the service offered by the technical support dept. I've worked at Virgin in technical support as it was evolving from customer service so know what it used to be like to offer a proper service. I've also been on the end of the new service speaking to many of the centres that had taken on 100's of support agents poorly training them and popping them live.

So as far you are concerned it would be OK if you were speaking to me about a fault and because I find no fault I then decide to say " you have not paid your bill sir that's why you are offline" well that is not allowed because first you have to prove that you are actually speaking to the account holder.
You should not be going into that either. You should simply state that the account holder should speak to customer service and pass them over. When making changes to the account they should make sure they where speaking to the account holder.
DPA checks are a bit of a joke really as they have not much grounding in reality. We used to ask for the account phone number or post code and name only. If we were suspicious then we might check but 99.9% of the time it was the account holder that called or their spouse.


You do this by asking a question that only the account holder should know and if they answer correctly they clear DPA.
What a crock my partner would be able to answer any question on any of my accounts so does that give her access to my account?


Even then if the was an account problem, I would then either transfer them to the correct department or ask them to call them as I would be unable to discuss such details.
Exactly, TS should not make changes to packages or discuss customers payments. Fixing a fault most of the time does not require any account information to be discussed.


What would you prefer and be honest, a customer service rep who will say anything to get you off the phone, or a customer service rep who follows correct Company procedures, I think the answer is obvious.
I'd prefer a customer service/technical support rep that understood how the cable system worked, was very proficient with the cms systems and had a high level of analytical and problem solving skills. Unfortunately this is no longer a priority. Your just a number now answering the call in the lowest time thats possible and handling it in the least time also.


Do not forget we are talking about Company Procedures that protect the public from misinformation, read the thread and you will understand what I am talking about rather than posting a link.
Company procedure that says its for dpa when really it does not have any grounding in it.

Speaking of poorly trained tech/csr that don't understand what the dpa covers.....
About 2 years ago we were living with my partners parentals whilst we were in the process of getting a house sorted over here (NW). They were away on holiday in scotland with zero mobile signal.

We set up for a meal and some wine in front of a film on sky but when it started it was out of sync. A quick reboot of the box and checking on the other stb in the house said that the fault was not likely to be our end so I called up sky tech to report the fault. Was met with sorry we are unable to discuss this as you are not the account holder and do not know the password.

What was confirming the account details going to do with reporting the fault or indeed fixing it for us and the other people that would have been affected?

At ntl I would have been able to replicate the fault on one of the office stbs and then report the error directly to the dmc who would likely have fixed it in a matter of minutes. Whilst it may sound like I'm against over seas outsourcing (which I am) the main reason ntl offered me free digital tv and discounted services was not only for the perk but also for product awareness. We had several digital and analogue stbs to check and cable modems we could check on. We also had direct access to switch techs, head ends and the dmc which I'm betting is no longer allowed. I forget the name of the switch tech we inherited when ntl Teesside took over csr/tech for Nottingham but he was superb. Call him on his day off at home and he'd dial in and sort the fault in minutes. Do you guys have that sort of control or do you have to log tickets to 2nd level etc?

[whydoIneedatech]

I did read the thread. I'm also able to distinguish between the data protection act and Virgins procedures for technical support.


Cool, Reduce 13 call centres full of experienced staff to 3, then merge with Telewest. After that try to reduce the centre count further and supplement this with overseas outsourcing. Net result is a reduction in the quality of the service offered by the technical support dept. I've worked at Virgin in technical support as it was evolving from customer service so know what it used to be like to offer a proper service. I've also been on the end of the new service speaking to many of the centres that had taken on 100's of support agents poorly training them and popping them live.

You should not be going into that either. You should simply state that the account holder should speak to customer service and pass them over. When making changes to the account they should make sure they where speaking to the account holder.
DPA checks are a bit of a joke really as they have not much grounding in reality. We used to ask for the account phone number or post code and name only. If we were suspicious then we might check but 99.9% of the time it was the account holder that called or their spouse.


What a crock my partner would be able to answer any question on any of my accounts so does that give her access to my account?


Exactly, TS should not make changes to packages or discuss customers payments. Fixing a fault most of the time does not require any account information to be discussed.


I'd prefer a customer service/technical support rep that understood how the cable system worked, was very proficient with the cms systems and had a high level of analytical and problem solving skills. Unfortunately this is no longer a priority. Your just a number now answering the call in the lowest time thats possible and handling it in the least time also.


Company procedure that says its for dpa when really it does not have any grounding in it.
You clearly have failed to read the thread and obviously have a personal grudge against Virgin.

Remember I was giving advice you went on a crusade because you have issues, reread the thread properly and you may understand otherwise do not bother to answer this post.

Or even add bits to your original see above:rofl::LOL:

[handyman]

You clearly have failed to read the thread and obviously have a personal grudge against Virgin.

Remember I was giving advice you went on a crusade because you have issues, reread the thread properly and you may understand otherwise do not bother to answer this post.

The op was not asking for advice, he was venting frustration and the poor level of support he got when reporting a fault. You and ceedee are bringing dpa into this wrongly as it had nothing to do with it. The op had confirmed my thoughts that he had got through to a overseas call centre as they don't have access to the systems you have, they also have less training and are not familiar with the product so its no doubt this that contributed to his frustration rather than the fault.

You might not be so cocky if you knew who was posting in this thread :)

I'll go on a crusade all day long for proper UK based customer service as that is what people actually expect. your banging on about dpa only highlights your lack of knowledge and experience and I would be watching my back if I where you. (you don't know how many of your managers read these forums) Trust me this forum is watched and people can be disciplined because of posts here.

[whydoIneedatech]

You might not be so cocky if you knew who was posting in this thread :)



Resorting to veiled threats now:disturbd:

[deed02392]

Your threats have contributed nicely to the topic. Well done.

---------- Post added at 23:53 ---------- Previous post was at 23:53 ----------

Resorting to veiled threats now:disturbd:
Haha, this appeared when I sent my last message.

[handyman]

Resorting to veiled threats now:disturbd:

I don't work for them any more. I do know who does though and I consider this advice to you not a threat. I work in training technical support centres that have more staff on the helpdesk than Virgin have in total.

Trust me you have already made a fool of your self in front of one of the top cs people.

[deed02392]

You might not be so cocky if you knew who was posting in this thread
and
I would be watching my back if I where you.
Would be considered by most to be most definately a threat.

[zing_deleted]

I do not see any need to argue over this subject. I think in reality we all want better CS .So calm down before it goes to far

[whydoIneedatech]

I do not see any need to argue over this subject. I think in reality we all want better CS .So calm down before it goes to far

Perfectly calm David and thank you, I do my job and I give advice here and feel the is no need to go down the route of giving veiled threats that your boss might be reading this is out of order and totally wrong for a forum.

[handyman]

Your threats have contributed nicely to the topic. Well done.

The topic is the frustration of the posters experience with poor technical support. Dpa was incorrectly brought into it which has been pointed out by more than one person as having nothing to do with the actual issue.

The actual issue is the csr that was not trained to perform a proper diagnostic analysis of the fault and was not aware of the current technical faults that were present on the network.

Had the op have called in back in the day he would have likely had his modem checked through blue tools for correct signal levels, then a quick ping test and a verification of any new software (av etc ) added to his pc. Once that it was clear that his modem was functioning and his pc was as well he would have been advised that there was a network issue that may be the cause of his fault. If the tech had higher access they could even have looked into the change log and see if any of those could be related to the fault. I doubt any of the call centres now see that level of information.

The job is as much education of the customer as it is fixing the faults. Remember that a fault is only the customer perception.

[deed02392]

OK, let's keep talking about it and maybe one of the many managers of tech support will do something about it?

[handyman]

Perfectly calm David and thank you, I do my job and I give advice here and feel the is no need to go down the route of giving veiled threats that your boss might be reading this is out of order and totally wrong for a forum.

Sorry for veiling it, it was actually meant as honest advice. I'm sure you may be good at your job so perhaps I should say your boss has read this thread. Thats nothing to do with me by the way I did not report it. In fact they viewed it before I even posted.

I thought I was being helpful by trying to let you know this.

---------- Post added at 00:17 ---------- Previous post was at 00:11 ----------

OK, let's keep talking about it and maybe one of the many managers of tech support will do something about it?

Unlikely to happen. there needs to a top down culture change and a focus on proactive support rather than what is in place now.

This will only happen when people very high up realise the importance of service. Given the maturity of the call centre industry this is unlikely to happen for at least the next 5 years when the bubble has properly burst on outsourcing.

Once this happens it will be a very painful operation to turn things around.

[whydoIneedatech]

Sorry for veiling it, it was actually meant as honest advice. I'm sure you may be good at your job so perhaps I should say your boss has read this thread. Thats nothing to do with me by the way I did not report it. In fact they viewed it before I even posted.

I thought I was being helpful by trying to let you know this.

Its fine, lets forget about it you remember a different way of working plus you are EX-NTL with completely different set of online tools at your disposal remember we do not have Bluetools at EX-Telewest, and have a different approach tocustomers than EX-Telewest.:tu:

[handyman]

Its fine, lets forget about it you remember a different way of working plus you are EX-NTL with completely different set of online tools at your disposal and have a different approach to EX-Telewest.:tu:

True I have zero knowledge of EX-Telewest systems. However I was assuming that all legacy systems had been migrated to Harmony (or insert name of over price and delayed new system). I very much doubt the hfc infrastructure has changed in any substantial way since I left.

There are way more tools that are possible to be developed that would make techs jobs easier but that does not fit with the plan of moving call centres to places where Virgin can get funding thus requiring techs to be on the phone with way less training than they should get.

I'm not knocking Virgin either (well maybe the adsl part of Virgin that told me I could not get broadband because I had an optical fibre line). I've worked for isps with outsourced call centres based in the UK that have and even poorer service record (Hire a Russian lady with little English that has never used a computer before, give her 7 days training that she could not understand then put them on the phone delivering techical support for broadband).

[whydoIneedatech]

True I have zero knowledge of EX-Telewest systems. However I was assuming that all legacy systems had been migrated to Harmony (or insert name of over price and delayed new system). I very much doubt the hfc infrastructure has changed in any substantial way since I left.

There are way more tools that are possible to be developed that would make techs jobs easier but that does not fit with the plan of moving call centres to places where Virgin can get funding thus requiring techs to be on the phone with way less training than they should get.

I'm not knocking Virgin either (well maybe the adsl part of Virgin that told me I could not get broadband because I had an optical fibre line). I've worked for isps with outsourced call centres based in the UK that have and even poorer service record (Hire a Russian lady with little English that has never used a computer before, give her 7 days training that she could not understand then put them on the phone delivering techical support for broadband).

All we have is Redtools from NTL all their other tools are passworded and you will know what they are.

By the way I did not take any of the above posts personally because this is a support forum where people will have different views about the same subject.

[handyman]

That must be a joy, We had 30 plus legacy systems to use. I still prefered cable master Teesside though especially with dispatch access :-)

[broadbandbug]

The topic is the frustration of the posters experience with poor technical support. Dpa was incorrectly brought into it which has been pointed out by more than one person as having nothing to do with the actual issue.

The actual issue is the csr that was not trained to perform a proper diagnostic analysis of the fault and was not aware of the current technical faults that were present on the network.

Had the op have called in back in the day he would have likely had his modem checked through blue tools for correct signal levels, then a quick ping test and a verification of any new software (av etc ) added to his pc. Once that it was clear that his modem was functioning and his pc was as well he would have been advised that there was a network issue that may be the cause of his fault. If the tech had higher access they could even have looked into the change log and see if any of those could be related to the fault. I doubt any of the call centres now see that level of information.

The job is as much education of the customer as it is fixing the faults. Remember that a fault is only the customer perception.

Why do you feel that the tools the Tech Support guys have access to now would be less than in your day?
As far as I understand the Swansea and Albert Dock guys have access to more information about the network now than ever before and the tools do more now than they did before (ie. Blue Tools has moved on a fair pace)
I really sense some bitterness in your posts about how you feel you were treated by NTL?

---------- Post added at 13:50 ---------- Previous post was at 13:48 ----------

That must be a joy, We had 30 plus legacy systems to use. I still prefered cable master Teesside though especially with dispatch access :-)

Hasn't Harmony been dumped and all customers moved (or moving) to ICOMS?