View Full Version : Research shows that most want a limited service.
It's true, Alex Brown says so.
some customers will want to have a non-STM connection (and research
suggests that this isn't a significant number)
This guy is unbelievable. research that not one single person that I know can say yes I was part of that research where we answered some questions.
The really annoying thing about this is that you can bet your granny that this is going to be the line that will be made to the many complaints of STM in the media and other sources. our customers have told us that they love a throttled connection. we did extensive research and only 0.45% of our customers have a problem with it. granted that 89.7% don't know sod all about it because we haven't told them!
It's true, Alex Brown says so.
some customers will want to have a non-STM connection (and research
suggests that this isn't a significant number)
This guy is unbelievable. research that not one single person that I know can say yes I was part of that research where we answered some questions.
Add this to the No we are not traffic shaping whoops oh look we are.
Add this to the No we are no going to launch phorm or we might, we might Not, We might, We might not statements.
I no longer believe anything Virgin say as you can be sure it will not be the truth.
Add this to the No we are not traffic shaping whoops oh look we are.
Add this to the No we are no going to launch phorm or we might, we might Not, We might, We might not statements.
I no longer believe anything Virgin say as you can be sure it will not be the truth.
It's all lies, lies, and lies.
The phrase screw you goes very well with the word Virgin :D
It's all lies, lies, and lies.
The phrase screw you goes very well with the word Virgin :D
:tu: :tu:
CrowmanUK
17-05-2008, 11:25
The sad thing is he could be sort of right, I'm not saying that he is right about only a small portion of customers wanting a non stm'd connection, what he is right in saying is that an stm'd connection probably wouldnt affect a vast majority of VM's customers. I know a lot of people who have broadband but I can honestly say that maybe 2 of them would make use of a 20meg connection, the rest of them could probably make do with a 1/2meg connection, they do a bit of surfing, msn and emails and that is about it.
This then begs the question, if the vast majority of VM's researched customers dont mind an stm'd connection because they dont download that much why do VM need to traffic manage to such an extent?
They have to traffic manage to such an extent to give Alex Brown a chance to say his other line of other customers negatively impacting the service of others. it's all the customers fault for turning the computer on.
MovedGoalPosts
17-05-2008, 11:53
Ask a question in a certain way and you can get the result you are looking for from the majority.
We don't know exactly what the question was, how many people were asked, or what the range of replies were. I suspect you'd get a completely different set of answers from users on the lower speed broadband tiers, most of whom wouldn't even understand the concept, compared to those more demanding and aware users on the faster tiers.
One day someone at Virgin Media will awake from their slumber and realise they have got it wrong. It's only because for a large portion of their potential customer base, there is no real alternative to good broadband speeds (i.e. customers too far from the ADSL exchange), that VM have the broadband coverage they get. If they had genuine competition, as is the case with TV and Sky, these STM arguments might get presented completely differently.
rogerdraig
17-05-2008, 12:38
hes most likely right but also most that pay or 4/10 20 or the new 50 when it arrives most likely really would only still need a 2 meg connection
as loads of those who i see on those higher connections surf the odd site when looking for something to buy or for a little bit of info and or email
myself i want a fixed bill but i also want a conection that does what it says 24/7 at what ever ll i go for
i think the asa could solve a lot of this in both sides favour by insisting advertised speeds should be put up as the average achievable 24/7 by a sampled set ( independantly checked ) which would lower those headline figures but be more realistic for every one
TraxData
17-05-2008, 13:08
It's true, Alex Brown says so.
some customers will want to have a non-STM connection (and research
suggests that this isn't a significant number)
This guy is unbelievable. research that not one single person that I know can say yes I was part of that research where we answered some questions.
The really annoying thing about this is that you can bet your granny that this is going to be the line that will be made to the many complaints of STM in the media and other sources. our customers have told us that they love a throttled connection. we did extensive research and only 0.45% of our customers have a problem with it. granted that 89.7% don't know sod all about it because we haven't told them!
And some people never did believe me about Alex, oh well :p:
I'm sure you noticed he talked about the need for a new tier (if they went without STM)
I'm sure you also noticed that was a slight hint about 50mbit...work it out yourself ;)
i would say its true the "average" customer wants to email and surf not download 24/7 because they can
Berealwith
17-05-2008, 13:40
I'm sure you also noticed that was a slight hint about 50mbit...work it out yourself ;)
Classic the "carrot line" hee hee. nice one Trax
pachelbel
17-05-2008, 13:52
i would say its true the "average" customer wants to email and surf not download 24/7 because they can
I have to agree with this. I asked both my neighbours what bb speed they were getting and neither had a clue. I did a quick check and found that the first achieved 1Meg with BT. The other also on BT was only getting 100K and I told him to speek to BT and try and sort it out. Both neighbours said that they were quite happy as they could surf and use their Email. This just confirmed the same answers from the rest of the family.
The bad point is that moving to ADSL will give me a worse connection so Virgin Media it is for the moment. If they could just provide a TV service that works!
i would say its true the "average" customer wants to email and surf not download 24/7 because they can
Virgin disagree that people want to download 24/7. they say it's because they might want to download or stream 300MB sometimes.
It's true, Alex Brown says so.
some customers will want to have a non-STM connection (and research
suggests that this isn't a significant number)
This guy is unbelievable. research that not one single person that I know can say yes I was part of that research where we answered some questions.
The really annoying thing about this is that you can bet your granny that this is going to be the line that will be made to the many complaints of STM in the media and other sources. our customers have told us that they love a throttled connection. we did extensive research and only 0.45% of our customers have a problem with it. granted that 89.7% don't know sod all about it because we haven't told them!
It is entirely possible that they have surveys that say this. It's also entirely possible that the question was cleverly phrased to get that result.
---------- Post added at 16:37 ---------- Previous post was at 16:35 ----------
Virgin disagree that people want to download 24/7. they say it's because they might want to download or stream 300MB sometimes.
Most people don't want to download 24/7. The number of people who actually do download a lot isn't that high.
Most people don't want to download 24/7. The number of people who actually do download a lot isn't that high.
With Virgin ADSL they work it out another way. they do a raffle at the end of the week, and who ever downloaded the most for that week gets dropped to 80Kbit/s for a whole week. it's really exciting!
It is entirely possible that they have surveys that say this. It's also entirely possible that the question was cleverly phrased to get that result.
Or that the question wasn't fixed, but that they didn't speak to people who would give an answer more representative of their customers or the UK as a whole, because those people didn't want to take part.
A survey is only as good as those who are interviewed.
rogerdraig
17-05-2008, 17:43
With Virgin ADSL they work it out another way. they do a raffle at the end of the week, and who ever downloaded the most for that week gets dropped to 80Kbit/s for a whole week. it's really exciting!
lol best laugh all day
Robertus
18-05-2008, 07:44
I went to a friends house to fix his network (uses ADSL) he was only synchronising at 800kb :o
Ofcom/ASA or whoever should ban them using the the term "unlimited" on services which are subject, not to abuse based limitations, but to what are clearly becoming service defining conditions.
The truth, is most people have no problem with any restriction that does not affect them, and the use of a complex system of time based quotes bamboozles the average punter, compared to a clear quota.
Comparing with Sky (BB on top of Sky subscription):
Base (free) - 2GB monthly quota = "dialup replacement"
Mid (£5) - 40GB monthly quota
Max (£10) - "unlimited", subject to an as yet undefined FUP.
http://www.pcplus.co.uk/news/home_news/unlimited_broadband_ads_could_be_banned
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/05/02/ispa_fair_use/
Good grief!
The policy has drawn criticism from within the industry too, with BT's Plusnet (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/04/13/plusnet_comeback_packages/), and Virgin Media (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/04/05/virgin_unlimited/) calling for more transparency.
Virginmedia's STM is the complete opposite of transparency.
... as it is hidden away on a separate page, with no links to it from either the T&Cs, AUP or the sales pages.
Customers are not notified of it's existence nor are they informed of changes to it.
That's the thing, VM don't have a download limit. You can download as much as you want with them, but it comes at a price if you like watching TV shows online using services such as iPlayer.
Irrespective of whether you consider the term 'unlimited' to be misleading or not, the statement this thread is based on is plain stupid.
As a VM broadband customer would you prefer:
a) an ulinited connection with no traffic management, which means you will get full speed (subject to nework conditions).
b) an unlimited connection with traffic management meaning you will have your speed reduced by 75% for up to nine hours (when the trial is rolled out).
Er... b) please. I don't mind paying for 10mbps but only getting 2.5mbps for half the day
If you are not Happy with virginmedia its simple Leave them .The grass is not always greener on the other side you know
Tarantella
18-05-2008, 18:32
I already have a limited VM 2mb service which is fine as long as I don't watch iPlayer programmes for more than an hour in the evening!
Jonathan90
18-05-2008, 20:05
In my honest opinion i love stm because it gives a good connection between the hours most people want to use it just imagine all the leechers school kids downlaod of of limewire etc without stm the network would grind to a halt but with stm they all get capped freeing up bandwith from the ubr thush a better connection for the not so heavy downlaoders.
webcrawler2050
18-05-2008, 20:09
<Edit Rob: deleted>
In my honest opinion i love stm because it gives a good connection between the hours most people want to use it just imagine all the leechers school kids downlaod of of limewire etc without stm the network would grind to a halt but with stm they all get capped freeing up bandwith from the ubr thush a better connection for the not so heavy downlaoders.
Yes but I'm not a heavy downloader and I can fall foul of the STM any time.I would far rather VM actually went after the heavy downloaders and sorted them out instead of penalising me for occasionally downloading just above the STM limit set for 2MB.It's really annoying when I've purchased something for my 3D art and I have to wait to download it whenever the STM doesn't kick in...It was easy to know when that was at one time.Now we don't know quite when we are safe..we just have to trust to luck it would appear.
Even with the downloading that I do I still don't come anywhere near what some heavy users do and I feel quite peeved since VM changed the rules again without telling anyone first.
Anyone else would tell their customers about changes to their service BEFORE implementing them but not VM apparently.
slowcoach
18-05-2008, 20:42
I recently received a questionnaire from the NHS, they have my details due to my Mother having had treatment with them, I haven’t been to the GP for 42 years myself, anyway, the questions were presented in such a way that if I had wished to diss them I wouldn’t have been able to.
No matter what box I ticked they would have come out of it in a good light, needless to say it went straight in the shredder.
xspeedyx
18-05-2008, 22:14
Only between 4 - 12pm for a week they get a 512 connection I prob would get that with ADSL my lines are **** for ADSL
...I feel quite peeved since VM changed the rules again without telling anyone first.
Anyone else would tell their customers about changes to their service BEFORE implementing them but not VM apparently.
EXACTLY the problem.
It's all very well posting... "If you don't like STM you can always leave!"
Trials are introduced with no notification. Then when the trial thresholds are finally discovered and publicised they are different to the real world.
I am meant to be in one of the trial regions where the trial threshold is 1200MB yet I am throttled after just 800MB.
I don't disagree with STM in principle, Transparency, consistency and a fair threshold limit is all that is required. AND notification when changes are made so that everyone is fully aware of where they stand.
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