New trial Wigan Area

[dammydam]

Just rang up and had this confirmed to me. The new trial is between 11am-9pm. i didn't stay on the phone long enough to find out the allowed usage so i can't give you any info on that

This is probably the straw that broke the camels back, am not paying £18 a month for 2 meg under these conditions.

david

[frogstamper]

Just rang up and had this confirmed to me. The new trial is between 11am-9pm. i didn't stay on the phone long enough to find out the allowed usage so i can't give you any info on that

This is probably the straw that broke the camels back, am not paying £18 a month for 2 meg under these conditions.

david

Is this just in the Wigan area? and how long is this "trial" going on for.

[dammydam]

It normally includes the Preston/Liverpool/Wigan area going off previous Trials. Like i said i didn't stay on the phone to hear the rest ( not paying 25p a min). Am sure other users will post feedback from other network areas

David

[kryogenik]

Wow. That stinks.
:(

[Noggo]

I'm guessing the trail is for new STM hours, if it is thats pants.

[frogstamper]

How the hell can they justify almost half the day, this is ridiculous, the word "unlimited" should come with certain caveats in my opinion. As I have said on other threads if the network is this overloaded that they need to bring in such draconian limits they will have to drop "unlimited" and bring in a pay as you go option, its not unreasonable for people to get the speeds they pay for.

[dammydam]

Is there any reason why the network would be saturated at 11am in the morning? i can get my head round 4pm when all the school finish, but as for 11am i've no clue

Yeah , i think the advertisments should be revised. At the moment am simply on 1meg

[kryogenik]

Mods - any chance of a title change to something more appropriate (re STM times)?
I think this is possibly a bit of a hot potato!

[frogstamper]

Mods - any chance of a title change to something more appropriate (re STM times)?
I think this is possibly a bit of a hot potato!

Agreed!

[raefil]

just done 4 different speed tests on my 20 meg connection and all came up with 1.6kpbs

Not impressed.

Im in Preston area

[ceedee]

I'm very curious to hear that details of an STM trial are being announced -- they're supposed to be kept (very) secret so that the results are completely unbiased.

Apparently the one thing that you can be sure of is that if you are being STM'd your *upload* will be limited to 128kbps for M (2Mb) and L (4Mb) connections and 192kbps for XL (20Mb) -- if you're uploading any more than that then you are not currently being STM'd.

[Sirius]

Every time i read something about VirginMedia over the last few months it just makes me sad that a once good ISP have gone to the dogs.

[shawty]

Is there any reason why the network would be saturated at 11am in the morning? i can get my head round 4pm when all the school finish, but as for 11am i've no clue

Yeah , i think the advertisments should be revised. At the moment am simply on 1meg

Because everyone downloading during the peak hours, started downloading at the off peak hours, I guess anyway.

[Caster]

Remember when we had fast internet access? That was great.

[TraxData]

Wrong, the new trial hours are 1pm-10pm.

Also a seperate trial running elsewhere (unknown as to where?) where they initiate a second STM from midnight-7am (upload stm)

[shawty]

Wrong, the new trial hours are 1pm-10pm.

Also a seperate trial running elsewhere (unknown as to where?) where they initiate a second STM from midnight-7am (upload stm)

Maybe they should just go 24 hours and be done with it. What are we actually allowed to use our superfast 20mb for now? It seems they obviously want to limit it as much as possible.

[brundles]

Because everyone downloading during the peak hours, started downloading at the off peak hours, I guess anyway.

That's actually probably not too far from what's happened. Although I do a lot of my downloading overnight, there is some stuff I used to download in the afternoon that I now download late morning/lunchtime.

I must admit that (in the case of the L package) an 800meg limit over 10 hours is pretty poor.

[dammydam]

Wrong, the new trial hours are 1pm-10pm.

Also a seperate trial running elsewhere (unknown as to where?) where they initiate a second STM from midnight-7am (upload stm)

I can only relay the information i have received from a VirginMedia operative today. I was traffic shaped today just after 1pm. However, i only logged on the internet at 12.45.

You might be right and the VirginMedia operative might be wrong as i have no data from 11am. I will know for certain tomorrow as i will attempt to trigger the traffic shaping policy at 11am

will post back tomorrow

David

[Cobbydaler]

Wrong, the new trial hours are 1pm-10pm.

Also a seperate trial running elsewhere (unknown as to where?) where they initiate a second STM from midnight-7am (upload stm)

So in any 24 hour period your connection won't potentially be subject to 'management' for only 8 hours?

Ridiculous... :rolleyes:

[Gary L]

Some people sleep for 8 hours.

[Cobbydaler]

Some people sleep for 8 hours.

But some people leave their box on 24/7... ;)

[edit]

That's box as in PC, not STB or item of protective clothing only usually worn during a batsman's stay at the crease... :erm:

[dcclanuk]

So in any 24 hour period your connection won't potentially be subject to 'management' for only 8 hours?

Ridiculous... :rolleyes:

But if u trigger the STM 1 minute before the time, say 8.59pm, then that 8 hours comes down to 3/4 hours;)

I think I am going to leave VIRGIN MEDIA veryyyyyyyy soooooooooon!

Where to? ADSL, because I don't live in a village, I will get decent speeds. Had 8mb before, and got 7.1mb or something, way better than this JOKE of an internet "provider".

Veryyyyy angry at Virgin Media's STUPIDITY. On one hand provider's are providing FASTER internet [be it with a cap of say 30gb peak 300gb offpeak etc], but that is still better than this crap VM have come up with.

NOT HAPPY AT ALLLL:mad:

[homealone]

So in any 24 hour period your connection won't potentially be subject to 'management' for only 8 hours?

Ridiculous... :rolleyes:

well, to be fair, I would imagine an upload cap after midnight would be designed to 'catch' p2p traffic, but I agree, it does, in my opinion, make the provision of any more than slow speed access questionable, as using an high speed connection will be degraded for such an extended period, if upload & download are taken into consideration.

The point being if you only get slow speed most of the day due to STM, then there is a case for only paying for a slow speed..

[frogstamper]

Didn't VM say that they would keep us informed as to any changes to the stm rules? Even if it is a trial is it honestly fair that some poor person who sticks by the rules and avoids "excessive" downloading between 16.00pm and 21.00pm, decides to use his service at lunchtime in the knowledge he is safe from being stm,d, then has their speed crippled through no fault of their own.
Personally I can understand VMs stm policy, but to keep customers in the dark and move the goalposts without informing people is downright deceitful.:td:

PS If VM carry on with these undeclared stm "experiments" who on earth would want a 20mb let alone a 50mb connection. I feel sorry for the poor sod who has to try and justify this to a irate customer.

[Sirius]

The point being if you only get slow speed most of the day due to STM, then there is a case for only paying for a slow speed..

There is another way ;)

Move to a good provider like Be unlimited and hit VM in the pocket. This is yet another 2 fingers at it's paying customers.

All i am waiting for now is that letter of intent to spy on us and then i am moving my services.

[slowcoach]

The brains at VM must be really frustrated, how to provide no service at all yet still keep all the subscribers, this is going to take some head scratching. No doubt one bright spark will come up with the answer eventually. :scratch:

In the meantime, BT are currently replacing the feed to the local cab so hopefully I will have an alternative solution soon. :handshake

[dammydam]

Update:

i've tested the traffic shaping this morning at 11am

DU Meter Stopwatch - #1
Start time 11/04/2008 11:00:00
Stop time 11/04/2008 11:22:51
Elapsed time 22 min 50.2 sec
Incoming Outgoing
------------------------------------ ---------------- ----------------
Total of data transferred 272.4 MB 6.6 MB
Maximum transfer rate 2.2 Mbps 65.8 kbps
Average transfer rate 1.7 Mbps 40.3 kbps


STM kicked just after 11am

Start time 11/04/2008 11:22:53
Stop time 11/04/2008 11:42:36
Elapsed time 19 min 43.4 sec
Incoming Outgoing
------------------------------------ ---------------- ----------------
Total of data transferred 140.8 MB 3.9 MB
Maximum transfer rate 1.0 Mbps 35.0 kbps
Average transfer rate 998.3 kbps 27.6 kbps


The VirginMedia operative was correct. i will check later in the week regarding the STM cut off time and see if it's 9pm or 10pm. It was also mentioned within this thread that there could be another STM during the night. i will also check that and keep you informed.

[TraxData]

Didn't VM say that they would keep us informed as to any changes to the stm rules? Even if it is a trial is it honestly fair that some poor person who sticks by the rules and avoids "excessive" downloading between 16.00pm and 21.00pm, decides to use his service at lunchtime in the knowledge he is safe from being stm,d, then has their speed crippled through no fault of their own.
Personally I can understand VMs stm policy, but to keep customers in the dark and move the goalposts without informing people is downright deceitful.:td:

PS If VM carry on with these undeclared stm "experiments" who on earth would want a 20mb let alone a 50mb connection. I feel sorry for the poor sod who has to try and justify this to a irate customer.

These are currently trials, so VM dont have to inform anybody...they are always running and different trials in specific areas...

It's a waste of time asking as well as they wont discuss them, we only get to find out through people higher up in the chain who are annoyed by it all...

[slowcoach]

In the meantime, BT are currently replacing the feed to the local cab so hopefully I will have an alternative solution soon. :handshake
Bad news, spoke to the engineers who said that they were just replacing a recently damaged main cable to the CAB. :td:

[dammydam]

i couldn't trigger STM at 10pm and there's no evidence of STM from 12am-7am.

Did another test this morning.


DU Meter Stopwatch - STM NON-ACTIVE
Start time 12/04/2008 11:00:01
Stop time 12/04/2008 11:31:03
Elapsed time 31 min 2.8 sec
Incoming Outgoing
------------------------------------ ---------------- ----------------
Total of data transferred 473.8 MB 11.3 MB
Maximum transfer rate 266.9 KB/s 8.0 KB/s
Average transfer rate 260.5 KB/s 6.2 KB/s


DU Meter Stopwatch - STM ACTIVE
Start time 12/04/2008 11:31:07
Stop time 12/04/2008 11:41:52
Elapsed time 10 min 45.4 sec
Incoming Outgoing
------------------------------------ ---------------- ----------------
Total of data transferred 76.5 MB 2.3 MB
Maximum transfer rate 129.8 KB/s 21.1 KB/s
Average transfer rate 121.4 KB/s 3.6 KB/s


DU Meter Stopwatch - FTP UPLOAD STM ACTIVE
Start time 12/04/2008 11:43:27
Stop time 12/04/2008 11:52:33
Elapsed time 9 min 6.0 sec
Incoming Outgoing
------------------------------------ ---------------- ----------------
Total of data transferred 176.2 KB 8.1 MB
Maximum transfer rate 10.0 kbps 352.8 kbps
Average transfer rate 2.6 kbps 123.7 kbps

STM trial policy am currently under is
11am-9pm

David

[slowcoach]

Just got off the phone to “The Bloke in the Pub”.
I asked him about the new STM trials, his answer was,

Current STM is designed to stop the network collapsing prior to the switch to DOCSIS 3.
Trials of the new STM time ranges are testing to see what level will be required during the upgrade period in order to keep outages to a minimum. VM are trying to keep everyone connected (as much as possible) during the network upgrades, STM will be removed once all areas are upgraded, sometime late 2009.

So it seems VM had to choose to switch areas off completely for a time or spread the load and keep everyone connected, looks like they are going to choose the lesser of two evils.

[kryogenik]

I think I may have seen you in the NG's mate - will you be posting the boozer's thoughts in there? It'd be interesting to see the discussion.

[ceedee]

i couldn't trigger STM at 10pm and there's no evidence of STM from 12am-7am.
Did another test this morning.

If you want to get an accurate idea of your download speeds that VM's Tech Support staff will pay attention to then you'll need to do the following:

Check for broadband problems in your area at http://status2.virginmedia.com/

Disconnect any home networking equipment you have (eg. a router) and only connect directly to the cable modem with a single computer

Close as many applications on your computer as possible, in particular any P2P, streaming or IM programs

Start 2 simultaneous downloads from the VM demo games server (http://gamefiles.virginmedia.com/blueyondergames/demos/) plus 2 simultaneous downloads of Zen test files (http://fuller.zen.co.uk/test). That's four file downloads happening at once!

Now add up each of the four download speeds to get your accurate download rate.

STM trial policy am currently under is 11am-9pm

If you post to the newsgroup again, perhaps you could ask VM Tech Support to confirm that you are currently under STM 'out of hours'?

[zing_deleted]

Wrong, the new trial hours are 1pm-10pm.

Also a seperate trial running elsewhere (unknown as to where?) where they initiate a second STM from midnight-7am (upload stm)

So the over night STM is only upload only yes?

As a leech by the time I get up till 1 pm I can get everything I want in the day and if there is something I can find in the afternoon ill still eech it at 5 meg. However I was nehind the 4 till 9 stm times and saw reason in it but these new times suck ass VM really are extracting the urine. Someone there is laughing at us trying to see just how far they can push the customer. The shame in this of course I still have no options as ADSL is pants on my line

[ceedee]

Someone there is laughing at us trying to see just how far they can push the customer.

Part of the reason for the trials being 'secret' is so that VM can see how many people notice that it's happening and complain.

If you don't like being hit by 'out of hours' STM, then get it confirmed by Tech Support and let them know how unimpressed you are!

[dammydam]

If you want to get an accurate idea of your download speeds that VM's Tech Support staff will pay attention to then you'll need to do the following:

Check for broadband problems in your area at http://status2.virginmedia.com/

Disconnect any home networking equipment you have (eg. a router) and only connect directly to the cable modem with a single computer

Close as many applications on your computer as possible, in particular any P2P, streaming or IM programs

Start 2 simultaneous downloads from the VM demo games server (http://gamefiles.virginmedia.com/blueyondergames/demos/) plus 2 simultaneous downloads of Zen test files (http://fuller.zen.co.uk/test). That's four file downloads happening at once!

Now add up each of the four download speeds to get your accurate download rate.



If you post to the newsgroup again, perhaps you could ask VM Tech Support to confirm that you are currently under STM 'out of hours'?

Hi Ceedee,

Am not interested in getting the attention of VM technical support. These trials will go on regardless. I want to make VM customers aware of what the new trails nationally could be.

My bandwidth is maxed out just check DU meters logs am only on a 2meg connection. You can see clearly see when STM kicks in.

The trials (Wigan area) between 11am - 9pm have been confirmed to me via VM tech support in a telephone conversation earlier in the week. Am posting the logs to confirm this as my post count and credibility is non-exsistant on here :)

[ceedee]

Am not interested in getting the attention of VM technical support. These trials will go on regardless. I want to make VM customers aware of what the new trails nationally could be.

As I posted earlier (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34526690-post35.html), if you report that your connection seems to have been managed out of hours (if possible, every time you see it happening) then there's a good chance that *you* will influence VM's decision whether to extend it to the rest of the country.
If you simply post here without reporting it, we'll *all* get it because hardly anybody complained!

[TraxData]

So the over night STM is only upload only yes?

As a leech by the time I get up till 1 pm I can get everything I want in the day and if there is something I can find in the afternoon ill still eech it at 5 meg. However I was nehind the 4 till 9 stm times and saw reason in it but these new times suck ass VM really are extracting the urine. Someone there is laughing at us trying to see just how far they can push the customer. The shame in this of course I still have no options as ADSL is pants on my line

Yes, upload only. For now...

[slowcoach]

I think I may have seen you in the NG's mate - will you be posting the boozer's thoughts in there? It'd be interesting to see the discussion.
I hate the NG's format so I very rarely use them.

[m1th]

I've been keeping an eye on these threads for a while now and I've just about had it with VM.

This is ridiculous.

What's even more frightening is how hardly anyone is complaining about it. Are we all just gonna let VM force feed us outrageous policies THAT WE DID NOT SIGN UP FOR and do nothing about it?

I've tried calling VM, even sending letters but it's next to useless if I'm one of the only few that is doing it.

We should start a campaign of some sort to "educate" people about VM's new policies. (STM , and now the net neutrality issue... its getting out of hand.)

[dammydam]

I've been keeping an eye on these threads for a while now and I've just about had it with VM.

This is ridiculous.

What's even more frightening is how hardly anyone is complaining about it. Are we all just gonna let VM force feed us outrageous policies THAT WE DID NOT SIGN UP FOR and do nothing about it?

I've tried calling VM, even sending letters but it's next to useless if I'm one of the only few that is doing it.

We should start a campaign of some sort to "educate" people about VM's new policies. (STM , and now the net neutrality issue... its getting out of hand.)

Am going through the complaining process now and it's like banging your head against a brick wall. I've complained, am in the process of writing and sending in logs to valididate my concerns. Where to turn to if that falls on deaf ears i just don't know. I guess next step will be complaining with my wallet and jumping this sinking ship.

But that doesn't help the people locked into a 12 months contract , those without an adsl exchange.

youre right, everybody should be jumping all over this

David

[ceedee]

:nworthy:

Thank you for your strenuous efforts in the newsgroup, David.
I'm sure that VM management will be in no doubt how you feel about STM, should the comments TS say they've passed on, actually get read.

[NotaVMFan]

Every time i read something about VirginMedia over the last few months it just makes me sad that a once good ISP have gone to the dogs.

Yes, all bad news at the minute and getting worse by the day..

Was a good service prior to VM (Rebrand) and the 20mb Fiasco...:td:

NTL + 10mb = Solid Service (For me anyway)

---------- Post added at 01:30 ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 ----------

I've been keeping an eye on these threads for a while now and I've just about had it with VM.

This is ridiculous.

What's even more frightening is how hardly anyone is complaining about it. Are we all just gonna let VM force feed us outrageous policies THAT WE DID NOT SIGN UP FOR and do nothing about it?

I've tried calling VM, even sending letters but it's next to useless if I'm one of the only few that is doing it.

We should start a campaign of some sort to "educate" people about VM's new policies. (STM , and now the net neutrality issue... its getting out of hand.)

It`s the power users that are being targeted, normal joe soap will probably remain unaffected...

One way of sorting the network out on the cheap I suppose :confused:

[kryogenik]

It`s the power users that are being targeted, normal joe soap will probably remain unaffected...


Disagree. Almost everyone I know who uses the internet to any extent, does so by downloading and/or streaming content.
People have reported watching a couple of progs on BBCiPlayer and a while online gaming can take you into STM quite easily on the lower tiers.

What are 'power users' ..?
You only need download 300mb or upload 150mb on the lowest tier to be traffic managed.
Hardly a power user's antics is it?

[NotaVMFan]

[QUOTE=kryogenik;34528987]
What are 'power users' ..? QUOTE]

Sorry,
A Power User meaning anymore than Surfing/Emailing..

[kryogenik]

Sorry,
A Power User meaning anymore than Surfing/Emailing..

They're not 'power users'. The people that are being targeted are the supposed top 5% of downloaders.
Or as I said, anyone who has the audacity to download more than their connection can do in roughly 20 mins to half an hour.

[CrowmanUK]

I think its only the top 5% of downloaders on ADSL mate, its working differently for cable broadband, on there you have limits that if you hit you get traffic managed.

[frogstamper]

They're not 'power users'. The people that are being targeted are the supposed top 5% of downloaders.
Or as I said, anyone who has the audacity to download more than their connection can do in roughly 20 mins to half an hour.

20 minuets of using your connection at full speed!! the shear greed of it.;)

[kryogenik]

I think its only the top 5% of downloaders on ADSL mate, its working differently for cable broadband, on there you have limits that if you hit you get traffic managed.


Yeah, what I mean is, VM are saying that the people hitting these limits are only the top 5% of the customers downloading. i.e 'the vast majority'.

[frogstamper]

Id be interested to see on an average night how many people fall fail of stm, Id lay money its more than 5%

[TraxData]

Id be interested to see on an average night how many people fall fail of stm, Id lay money its more than 5%

For where i live its around 70% of everyone (daily)....i know that's true as i've seen the logs.

For manchester it was around 86%

[frogstamper]

For where i live its around 70% of everyone (daily)....i know that's true as i've seen the logs.

For manchester it was around 86%

VM know full well its more than the claimed 5%, when they set such low threshold's most people will exceed it, but I had no idea it was as high as 70%. But still they keep spending on advertising and putting ever more people on an already over loaded network. I mean it seems to me VM have all but excepted Sky have won the TV battle, and that their BB is their flagship product, if they carry on this way their flagship will sink.

[dammydam]

normal joe soap will probably remain unaffected...

Am sorry i have to disagree.

Scenario:
Normal Joe Soap logs on to the virgin media web site,starts browsing through the deals and see the package he/she wants. Types in post code number WN5XXX(Wigan under new STM). Lets see if it mentions the new trails?


Result!
Good news, you can receive a cable service in your street.

This means we can deliver service using fibre optic cable specifically designed to carry high speed internet, digital TV and phone. It's reliable, unaffected by the weather and the quality of service is not base on far you live from the telephone exchange - unlike all other broadband providers.


Umm Nope

Oh but hang on it mentions about new changes

http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/help/changes.html

Umm Still nope.

He/she continues to sign up and waits for there cable internet to be installed. Obviously totally unware of the trial. Two weeks in he/she is on the premium phone line complaining about the speed and getting fobbed off with it's network this, it's network that excuses. Meanwhile VirginMedia cash in on his/her lack of knowledge.

And the cycle repeats and repeats........


It's the same for current Joe Soap subscribers. VirginMedia could easily E-mail everybody under the trial and save them time,effort and money.but they choose not too. They choose instead to abuse there customer base. Which is a total disgrace.


This is the reason why VirginMedia has to be transparent with the trials taking place.

David

[hokkers999]

Remember when we had fast internet access? That was great.

Yep sure do, back in 2000 we got this blazingly fast 512k and we were very happy with it. You're just spoiled nowadays.

[TraxData]

Yep sure do, back in 2000 we got this blazingly fast 512k and we were very happy with it. You're just spoiled nowadays.

I remember when 28.8k was blazingly fast...:p: /showing age.

I also remember when 64k ISDN was all the rage, hmm those were the days.

[kryogenik]

I rememebr when 28.8k was blazingly fast...:p: /showing age.


Oh yes!
And the will it/won't it connect free dial up ISP, X-Stream back in 97!
Haha! Brilliant.
:)
Usenet ruled in those days.

[broadbandbug]

They're not 'power users'. The people that are being targeted are the supposed top 5% of downloaders.
Or as I said, anyone who has the audacity to download more than their connection can do in roughly 20 mins to half an hour.

Their connection running at full line rate for that time.. How long do you want to be able to run at full line rate for per 24Hours?

[TraxData]

Their connection running at full line rate for that time.. How long do you want to be able to run at full line rate for per 24Hours?

Longer than 20 minutes.

Most people are at work in the day and sleep at night, at £37/month its not unfair to want to be able to use it at full rate for just a few minutes.

[broadbandbug]

Longer than 20 minutes.

Most people are at work in the day and sleep at night, at £37/month its not unfair to want to be able to use it at full rate for just a few minutes.

Ok so longer than 20 minutes but for how long.. If you were able to have a limit set for you to meet your needs what would it be during the 1600 - 2100 Peak Traffic Period?

[TraxData]

Ok so longer than 20 minutes but for how long.. If you were able to have a limit set for you to meet your needs what would it be during the 1600 - 2100 Peak Traffic Period?

For as long as i wish to use it, i suppose, im not gonna go and set a limit, im paying for a connection, if i wanna use it when im home, then i should be Able to without having 75% of it taken off me for wanting to use it for what it was actually made for, people dont go upgrading to 20mbit just to look at emails quicker, we upgrade because we want files faster...yet if we try doing so we get traffic managed...which makes it a complete waste of time...i want the old telewest/NTL days back, ireally do, VM really only had broadband going for it...and they have managed to royally screw that now...

You cant offer *unlimited* upto (cough) 20mbit connections then complain when users actually want to use it =/

[broadbandbug]

For as long as i wish to use it, i suppose, im not gonna go and set a limit, im paying for a connection, if i wanna use it when im home, then i should be Able to without having 75% of it taken off me for wanting to use it for what it was actually made for, people dont go upgrading to 20mbit just to look at emails quicker, we upgrade because we want files faster...yet if we try doing so we get traffic managed...which makes it a complete waste of time...i want the old telewest/NTL days back, ireally do, VM really only had broadband going for it...and they have managed to royally screw that now...

You cant offer *unlimited* upto (cough) 20mbit connections then complain when users actually want to use it =/

But you do understand and agree that no ISP is financially able to build its infrastructure to manage 100% of the peak demand don't you? i.e. If a port is congested between 1600-2100, but is only 40% utilised outside of this time why would you upgrade it?
Therefore during the peak traffic there is either congestion (which by its nature will slow down everyone) or there is artificial means put in place to 'control' the demand to keep it within the capability of the network.

Which would you prefer?

If you are going to control demand, there are many ways to do so..

Would you prefer that VM 'strangle' NNTP & non commercial P2P (not Kontiki) Applications or slow down the speed of those that have downloaded the most over the previous 'time slot'?

I think we are all aware of the issues, but what are the sensible and financially viable solutions?

[TraxData]

But you do understand and agree that no ISP is financially able to build its infrastructure to manage 100% of the peak demand don't you? i.e. If a port is congested between 1600-2100, but is only 40% utilised outside of this time why would you upgrade it?
Therefore during the peak traffic there is either congestion (which by its nature will slow down everyone) or there is artificial means put in place to 'control' the demand to keep it within the capability of the network.

Which would you prefer?

If you are going to control demand, there are many ways to do so..

Would you prefer that VM 'strangle' NNTP & non commercial P2P (not Kontiki) Applications or slow down the speed of those that have downloaded the most over the previous 'time slot'?

I think we are all aware of the issues, but what are the sensible and financially viable solutions?

If other european ISP's can do it, so can VM.

When living in france i was on 100mbit symetrical for around £50/month which was truely unlimited (as far as it goes anyway...)

When in japan i was on 1gbit/100 truely unlimited.

While those places may have had alot of money put into the infrastructure the point is still the same, if VM had bothered to upgrade like they should have instead of just shoving more people on an already overloaded network...then give big fat bonuses to people high up then we would not even be having this discussion.

Hell, even comcast over in the crapola of the US has finally started doing this, upgraded everyone to docsis2 and actually provide good enough upload speeds on top of it..and getting ready to roll out symetrical connections later on next year...and comcasts network was alot poorer than VMS.

So, really, what excuse do VM have? they just waste money and give themself's bonuses.

[ceedee]

I think we are all aware of the issues, but what are the sensible and financially viable solutions?

The first thing VM could do is admit that despite all the publicly available forecasts, they've massively under-estimated the data requirements of their broadband users; that, as a near-bankrupt business, there's no way they can raise enough investment to upgrade the network quickly enough to satisfy that demand in the near future, let alone the volume that'll likely be expected by customers over the next few years and apologise for their incompetence.

Oh and give an undertaking to accept no new connections to near-capacity UBRs and cancel their entire advertising and marketing budget.

Some would also suggest that it would be sensible for the entire board to resign but -- call me a softy! -- I'd not go quite that far. Just the CEO's severed head on stick would placate me.

[Mick Fisher]

The first thing VM could do is admit that despite all the publicly available forecasts, they've massively under-estimated the data requirements of their broadband users; that, as a near-bankrupt business, there's no way they can raise enough investment to upgrade the network quickly enough to satisfy that demand in the near future, let alone the volume that'll likely be expected by customers over the next few years and apologise for their incompetence.

Oh and give an undertaking to accept no new connections to near-capacity UBRs and cancel their entire advertising and marketing budget.

Some would also suggest that it would be sensible for the entire board to resign but -- call me a softy! -- I'd not go quite that far. Just the CEO's severed head on stick would placate me.
In reality they are much more likely to take a leaf out of Comcasts book and try to disable, through forged re-directs I think, all bittorrent traffic on the network and cure their lack of bandwidth problem in one foul swoop.

Although of course they may be too strapped for cash to obtain the necessary software/hardware to pursue even this avenue of attack.

[hokkers999]

I remember when 28.8k was blazingly fast...:p: /showing age.

I also remember when 64k ISDN was all the rage, hmm those were the days.

Remember the old 1200/300 modems?

---------- Post added at 21:00 ---------- Previous post was at 20:59 ----------

Their connection running at full line rate for that time.. How long do you want to be able to run at full line rate for per 24Hours?

Funnily enough, 24 hours, precisely what I pay for.

[ceedee]

In reality they are much more likely to take a leaf out of Comcasts book and try to disable, through forged re-directs I think, all bittorrent traffic on the network and cure their lack of bandwidth problem in one foul swoop.

Call me paranoid, but I wonder if Phorm's clickstream profiler could identify bittorrent traffic?
Somebody shoot that idea down please? Quickly? :hyper:

Although of course they may be too strapped for cash to obtain the necessary software/hardware to pursue even this avenue of attack.
I presume there are cable versions of Ellcoya filters?

This is all so reminiscent of the beginning of Pipex's demise years ago.
I'm wracking my brain to remember what they did next...

---------- Post added at 21:25 ---------- Previous post was at 21:18 ----------

Remember the old 1200/300 modems?
The first one I bought for my then employer cost over £200 -- a bloody fortune in those days...
But, my, was it fast!

Originally Posted by broadbandbug:
Their connection running at full line rate for that time.. How long do you want to be able to run at full line rate for per 24Hours?
Funnily enough, 24 hours, precisely what I pay for.
Well no wonder you're not happy -- this is a contended service.

[piggy]

the sooner people pay for quantity and not speed the better it will stop people grabbing everything "because i can" a lot like the idiots at a free bar, drink till they fall over!! data should not be seen as fresh air it should have a value and then people might download in a more responsible manner.

a 10mb leased line costs approx 7-8k a year so people will get stm/fup/capped if they only pay £37 a month for 20mb,things will get a lot worse before anything gets better the industry has no money

[TraxData]

Remember the old 1200/300 modems?

---------- Post added at 21:00 ---------- Previous post was at 20:59 ----------



Funnily enough, 24 hours, precisely what I pay for.

If i answer that, i'll show just how old i am :o::p:

[broadbandbug]

Remember the old 1200/300 modems?

---------- Post added at 21:00 ---------- Previous post was at 20:59 ----------



Funnily enough, 24 hours, precisely what I pay for.

But that is not what you pay for.. You pay for a contended broadband internet service that has the ability to burst to 20Mb/s and has a FUP to deal with excessive use.. It is not a 20Mb/s leased line:D

[slowcoach]

Remember the old 1200/300 modems?

My first modem was a 300/75 acoustic coupler, hey, whatever it takes. :D

[ceedee]

My first modem was a 300/75 acoustic coupler, hey, whatever it takes. :D

/aol

It was great fun dialing into BT Gold to pick up email.
I remember the thrill of discovering that one included some work, all the way from Geneva!

:o:

[homealone]

But that is not what you pay for.. You pay for a contended broadband internet service that has the ability to burst to 20Mb/s and has a FUP to deal with excessive use.. It is not a 20Mb/s leased line:D

While I don't disagree with that comment, it would help a lot, in my opinion, if VM would stop using the word 'unlimited' & the phrase 'unrestricted downloads' in their ad copy - especially when people are so bad at sharing, these days :erm:

[pentode]

One thing you might bear in mind is, with BB costing only £4.50/m for new customers, this will cause traffic congestion as more people join and all the existing customers will suffer...

... one, they won't get a cheaper service and it'll be us what suffers all the traffic congestion. Don't forget all the free upgrades 4Mb users and above are getting... those on 2mb gets nowt'.

dave

[broadbandbug]

One thing you might bear in mind is, with BB costing only £4.50/m for new customers, this will cause traffic congestion as more people join and all the existing customers will suffer...

... one, they won't get a cheaper service and it'll be us what suffers all the traffic congestion. Don't forget all the free upgrades 4Mb users and above are getting... those on 2mb gets nowt'.

dave

There are millions of pounds worth of upgrades being done to ensure sufficient bandwidth is available for the upgrade of 4Mb/s to 10Mb/s and any new customer additions from sales promos.

M Tier will have its day.. But because there are so many customers on this Tier it will not be for some time to come!

[Sirius]

There are millions of pounds worth of upgrades being done to ensure sufficient bandwidth is available for the upgrade of 4Mb/s to 10Mb/s and any new customer additions from sales promos.

M Tier will have its day.. But because there are so many customers on this Tier it will not be for some time to come!

Is that why there are rumours that over usage letters are on there way out to some customers who dared to use there broadband for more than checking there mail :LOL:

[charlieannear]

Do you get notified by VM if you somehow stray into what they define as the criteria for being STM'd (what does that stand for anyway?)?

I use my laptop to access webmail (inc. attachments), browse websites, post on forums such as this one, watch the occasional short video on YouTube or similar (used iPlayer once!), download updates and patches, and do a bit of online shopping.
I use my PS3 to download updates and the occasional demo or movie trailer.
I don't torrent/fileshare/download movies etc, I don't game online.
I do this evenings and weekends, when I am not at work or in bed asleep.
I am on 4meg connection (soon to be 10meg in Poole)

I wouldn't consider myself a heavy user at all.

But am I ?

[CrowmanUK]

No you wont be notified, the first thing you'll notice is your connection speed drops a lot, if at any time you hit the stm you'll be classed as a heavy user and your connection will get managed. Sucks eh?

[charlieannear]

Yeah, really sucks.
From my description of what I use tinterweb for, would you say I might have been stm'd? I'm having a lot of speed issues lately...

[mcmanic]

if my xbox360 or PS3 overheats and fails due to it being left on so long to be able to download any paid for film or demo's due to STM can i sue VM for not providing a decent level of service. These applainces require a BB connection and now its not worth using them if you cannot use it as intended.

[homealone]

if my xbox360 or PS3 overheats and fails due to it being left on so long to be able to download any paid for film or demo's due to STM can i sue VM for not providing a decent level of service. These applainces require a BB connection and now its not worth using them if you cannot use it as intended.

Virgin Media aren't responsible if your equipment isn't up to the job - sue Sony Or Microsoft ;) :D

[CrowmanUK]

Depends what games you're playing mate, if the game patch is bigger than the allowance for your connection at the given time then you will get traffic managed, last patch I downloaded was for company of heroes, a tad under 2 gig if I remember right, thank god I was on BE when did it ;)