View Full Version : 20 Meg to 50 Meg upgrade.
boabbyshaft
21-02-2008, 21:55
I was on the phone to virgin last night as my boradband connection had 'dropped off' and was caput for a little while. Whilst on the phone i asked if the 50 meg was to be a new teir or an upgrade for 20 meg subscribers.
The guy said it was a free upgrade commening this month too so hopefully this will happen and it wont just be the 4 meggers who get the free upgrade.
I mean for £37 a month for XL maybe its about time we start getting value and this would certainly help.............:p:
I was on the phone to virgin last night as my boradband connection had 'dropped off' and was caput for a little while. Whilst on the phone i asked if the 50 meg was to be a new teir or an upgrade for 20 meg subscribers.
The guy said it was a free upgrade commening this month too so hopefully this will happen and it wont just be the 4 meggers who get the free upgrade.
I mean for £37 a month for XL maybe its about time we start getting value and this would certainly help.............:p:
It has been said time after time, the 50Mb WILL NOT be an upgrade to 20Mb, its going to be a SEPERATE TIER!!!!
You have been lied to by vm!!!
If only I had a quid for every lie Ive heard from vm, I could afford to buy all of the Virgin brand!
Welshchris
22-02-2008, 01:15
I was on the phone to virgin last night as my boradband connection had 'dropped off' and was caput for a little while. Whilst on the phone i asked if the 50 meg was to be a new teir or an upgrade for 20 meg subscribers.
The guy said it was a free upgrade commening this month too so hopefully this will happen and it wont just be the 4 meggers who get the free upgrade.
I mean for £37 a month for XL maybe its about time we start getting value and this would certainly help.............:p:
I was told by a staff member at their head office that the 50mb connection will NOT be an upgrade, its gonna be a new connection that you have to upgrade to and they are thinking of charging around £50 for it a month BUT! its not a definate price yet.
It would be worth £50 a month if the upload rate is like 5mbit.
It would be worth £50 a month if the upload rate is like 5mbit.
Would it bugger!!!
How many sites can actually give you the FULL 50Mb speeds??
So unless you'r using torrents to download or upload, it'd be pretty useless!
This is what VM fail to inform everyone, that just because they "provide" 50Mb, dont mean to say that any websites do, certainly speed tests would be even more far out.
To get a free upgrade to 50mb is not so complicated, first of all go to the computer shop and ask for a long weight. whilst your their get some flashing ink and some sky hooks, then on your way home swap your cow for the magic beans.
To get a free upgrade to 50mb is not so complicated, first of all go to the computer shop and ask for a long weight. whilst your their get some flashing ink and some sky hooks, then on your way home swap your cow for the magic beans.
I do believe that you forgot the bottled bath water, the inflatable dart board & the chocolate kettle!
CS & TS will say absolutley anything to a customer if they think that's what they want to hear. Just look at all the previous posts from those who were promised the 4Mb to 10Mb upgrade sometime last year.
If you believe that VM will give all the 20Mb'ers a free upgrade to 50Mb then you're living in cuckoo land. Simple Logic dictates that 4Mb, 10Mb, 20Mb and 50Mb is a probably tiering for VM BB and not 4Mb, 10Mb and 50Mb
Kymmy
There going to crash hard with 50mb then because atm you cant even see 20mb most of the time no matter what your doing once or twice a week anyone?.
So how this super duper 50mb is going to change performance over 20 or even old 10mb is a non starter sure you might see 1 or 2 fast downloads in a week but thats where it stops, upload speed will be nowhere near 5mb look at the upload ratio that was on 10 or 20mb 1.5-2 is about on the money.
p.s enjoy hitting the stm faster :).
bigdavep
22-02-2008, 10:43
I do believe that you forgot the bottled bath water, the inflatable dart board & the chocolate kettle!
Not forgetting the bucket of steam
Sorry but with the amount of technical posts on the 50Mb technology why do people think that it's going to be anything like the current 20Mb situation. It's running on a different DOCSIS 3 system compared to the old DOCSIS1/2 and will be multistreamed. Also a lot of the 20Mb brigade will either go up to 50Mb or down to 10Mb (when the 4Mb upgrade finally gets completed) so you should have a more flattening of the usage on the old tiers which will mean on average people getting closer to thier max (dId that sound liek a PEPSI advert to you as it did to me when I was typing it???)
For those though that want a simple analogy think of the M6 Toll road (50Mb). For those that want to pay it's fast, smooth and rarely gets clogged up, where as it's effect on the M6 round the north of Birmingham (2/4/20Mb) was a bit less congestion which meant slightly higher average speeds.
Kymmy
The guy said it was a free upgrade commening this month too so hopefully this will happen and it wont just be the 4 meggers who get the free upgrade.
Looks like some people with 20mb connections have either forgotten or just don't know that 10mb was the upgrade to 20mb & 4mb to 10mb is the second phase of upgrades. Everyone on 20mb has already had the upgrade.
xspeedyx
22-02-2008, 11:02
Sorry but with the amount of technical posts on the 50Mb technology why do people think that it's going to be anything like the current 20Mb situation. It's running on a different DOCSIS 3 system compared to the old DOCSIS1/2 and will be multistreamed. Also a lot of the 20Mb brigade will either go up to 50Mb or down to 10Mb (when the 4Mb upgrade finally gets completed) so you should have a more flattening of the usage on the old tiers which will mean on average people getting closer to thier max (dId that sound liek a PEPSI advert to you as it did to me when I was typing it???)
For those though that want a simple analogy think of the M6 Toll road (50Mb). For those that want to pay it's fast, smooth and rarely gets clogged up, where as it's effect on the M6 round the north of Birmingham (2/4/20Mb) was a bit less congestion which meant slightly higher average speeds.
Kymmy
Also there MAJOR upgrades on UBR's that need the extra bandwidth soooooooo many and this is mainly for the 10MB upgrade.
ROLL ON 50MB ON DOCSIS 3.0
There going to crash hard with 50mb then because atm you cant even see 20mb most of the time no matter what your doing once or twice a week anyone?.
So how this super duper 50mb is going to change performance over 20 or even old 10mb is a non starter sure you might see 1 or 2 fast downloads in a week but thats where it stops, upload speed will be nowhere near 5mb look at the upload ratio that was on 10 or 20mb 1.5-2 is about on the money.
p.s enjoy hitting the stm faster :).
Speak for yourself.
I always get 20Mb, no matter what time of the day it is.
Paranoimia
22-02-2008, 13:59
Speak for yourself.
I always get 20Mb, no matter what time of the day it is.
Same here, pretty much. The occasional dip to around 15Mb, but hell... I can live with that!
I doubt I'd bother moving to 50Mb, but I wish they'd increase the upstream on 20Mb a bit.
xspeedyx
22-02-2008, 14:03
Depending on how much it costs on a staff account I might upgrade to 50MB hopefully the upstream wil help and with docsis 3.0 might upgrade the 20MB upstream
Welshchris
22-02-2008, 14:23
i reckon that the upload isnt gonna be much more than around 2mb
But with Virgins VIP pack surely the broadband speed should be upped to 50 mb? Seeing as its meant to be a "Very Impressive Package"
xspeedyx
22-02-2008, 14:33
But with Virgins VIP pack surely the broadband speed should be upped to 50 mb? Seeing as its meant to be a "Very Impressive Package"
So 50MB will be a premium package not included 20MB is enough as vm would lose money after they have upgraded to docsis 3.0 on ALL ubrs if all vip and 20 meggers went to 50mb
But with Virgins VIP pack surely the broadband speed should be upped to 50 mb? Seeing as its meant to be a "Very Impressive Package"
the price quoted somewhere was £50 and seeing as 20mb "is" £37, I can see a second VIP pack coming out for either £90 or £95, same as it is now but with 50mb instead of 20mb.
to those saying about sites not giving 50mb, shared hosting sites are likely to be 10mb and at most 100mb and most likely won't give you 50mb. speedtest.net never has gone above ~35mb for me (on various 100mb connections). the bigger sites like microsoft/apple/sourceforge which actually give proper sized downloads have multiple servers all with 1gbit+ connections and would likely give closer 50mb.
Welshchris
22-02-2008, 16:19
the price quoted somewhere was £50 and seeing as 20mb "is" £37, I can see a second VIP pack coming out for either £90 or £95, same as it is now but with 50mb instead of 20mb.
to those saying about sites not giving 50mb, shared hosting sites are likely to be 10mb and at most 100mb and most likely won't give you 50mb. speedtest.net never has gone above ~35mb for me (on various 100mb connections). the bigger sites like microsoft/apple/sourceforge which actually give proper sized downloads have multiple servers all with 1gbit+ connections and would likely give closer 50mb.
they will proberbly drop the price of the 20mb to around £30 or something
CS & TS will say absolutley anything to a customer if they think that's what they want to hear. Just look at all the previous posts from those who were promised the 4Mb to 10Mb upgrade sometime last year.
If you believe that VM will give all the 20Mb'ers a free upgrade to 50Mb then you're living in cuckoo land. Simple Logic dictates that 4Mb, 10Mb, 20Mb and 50Mb is a probably tiering for VM BB and not 4Mb, 10Mb and 50Mb
Kymmy
Think you will find thay want 10MB - 20MB - 50MB
The 4MB is already going upto 10MB and i think they will do away with the 2MB.
Just to add I’m on the 2mb and quite happy with it. Yes 10Mb might help my Clan game with FM I Host but hay the price is spot on for me.
Price wise and this is just me blowing hot air I’d love it to be sensible.
10MB - £15 Fair price that would win over a lot of customers I bet from other ISP’s Question is would Virgin rather have customer paying them a lower reasonable price for the service or BT and the rest of the other ISP.
20MB - £25
50MB - £45 Totally not worth it for the majority I bet but if that’s what you want then your on the cutting edge therefore cost.
Welshchris
22-02-2008, 17:14
Think you will find thay want 10MB - 20MB - 50MB
The 4MB is already going upto 10MB and i think they will do away with the 2MB.
not according to head office, the 2mb entry level will stay.
What they mean is there are no current plans. not there will never be any plans ;)
I think that after the dust has settled on the 4 to 10 upgrade then the will look at the 2meg customers. Just the same as what happened with the 10 to 20 customers.
VM have not made any offical statement as to whats happening in regards to the 50meg connection apart from its coming. Unless you are speaking to one of the directors or the product managers then none of the front line staff know anything and its just hearsay,
not according to head office, the 2mb entry level will stay.
Personally I think they will be wanting rid of such an entry level as they upgrade –well that’s a bit of a no brainer, but your right in the short term I’m sure.
The right question probably is how long will the entry level stay what it is?
I wanted to live in Cornwall when I read this;
http://www.goonhilly.bt.com/discover_goonhilly/internet_cafe.html
100mb/s sounds quite good ............... and then I found this;
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article737972.ece
2 Gb/s ............ in the UK 2 years ago! WOW!
And then I found this;
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/12/swedish_woman_has_fastest_internet_connection/
And now I'm just depressed .............:sleep:
why do people still think that because you can download faster its so much better, for a true multitasking connection it has to have decent upload too the more download speed goes up compared to upload speed is laughable really 756k upload on a 20mb connection is pretty shabby and upload is the main congestion hotpot on cable networks is it not?.
docsis 3 might improve it a bit but untill true fibre to the door old upload will still be kept down a lot on vm network, the upload speed especially on the ex telewest network was poor (NTL had faster upload than Telewest i think) and i think that on the 20mb rollout that is what borked the old telewest customers as there ubr's couldnt handle the extra oomph from 30k to 90k.
oliver1948uk
22-02-2008, 18:34
Just did a check:
Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:31:57 UTC
Test 1: 1024K took 449 ms = 2280.6 KB/sec, approx 18792 Kbps, 18.35 Mbps
Test 2: 1024K took 437 ms = 2343.2 KB/sec, approx 19308 Kbps, 18.86 Mbps
Test 3: 1024K took 455 ms = 2250.5 KB/sec, approx 18544 Kbps, 18.11 Mbps
Test 4: 2048K took 916 ms = 2235.8 KB/sec, approx 18423 Kbps, 17.99 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 18767 Kbps, 18.33 Mbps
It does fluctuate quite a bit, but it is normally about this
xspeedyx
22-02-2008, 20:09
why do people still think that because you can download faster its so much better, for a true multitasking connection it has to have decent upload too the more download speed goes up compared to upload speed is laughable really 756k upload on a 20mb connection is pretty shabby and upload is the main congestion hotpot on cable networks is it not?.
docsis 3 might improve it a bit but untill true fibre to the door old upload will still be kept down a lot on vm network, the upload speed especially on the ex telewest network was poor (NTL had faster upload than Telewest i think) and i think that on the 20mb rollout that is what borked the old telewest customers as there ubr's couldnt handle the extra oomph from 30k to 90k.
well I am ex-telewest and my upload has always been fine
Personally I don't give a monkeys what the up/down rate is, I just want a fast stable connection, as in pings, no loss etc....
I'm hoping the new DOCSIS 3 can give me that, at least until it's saturated/hacked or whatever.
My upload has always been fine too darth but the ubr's couldnt handle the upgrade and the increase in upstream (200% on tw network) led to all the congestion problems that people had/are having, vm had the technology in place and hit the switch but didnt realise that people use there upstream a lot more than what they thought and many new vm users jumping on the torrent bandwagon still keeping upload speed maxed out crippiling the network.
Vm applied a quick fix bandaid through stm to keep the pressure off the ubr's but in many places untill they get more ubr's upgraded problems will remain.
Lets just hope vm decides to splash the cash this coming april with the new tax year and spend less on advertising and more on providing the great service we used to have.
The upgrade to docsis 3 is a good thing pity it just the 50mb users that are getting it ;(.
Would like to see at LEAST 2Mb upload speed, it would be quite nice, and id think should be quite possible with DOCSIS 3. Doesnt it have capability of 150Mb upstream and 250 downstream or something?
I think most people taking 50meg will be high torrent sharers and downloaders of multiple files. Its rare your gonna be able to download a file around 6000kb/s on the 50meg connection, but 6 HD movies at 1000kb/s each sounds very nice.
Or 3 HD movies, some more downloads + game updates + online gaming. + other xbox users. More and more homes are getting more internet enabled devices, Wifi phones and so on, so faster broadband isnt for just fast downloads, its for multitasking on the internet connection.
Big upload speeds are definately going to be needed in the future too, Youtube / Picture posters / Bloggers and some services in the u.s are advertising ability to host your own website and email servers with guides on how to do it from residential providers! I like how they have embraced this, reckon VM should do the same since they have the capability above ADSL.
xspeedyx
23-02-2008, 13:29
My upload has always been fine too darth but the ubr's couldnt handle the upgrade and the increase in upstream (200% on tw network) led to all the congestion problems that people had/are having, vm had the technology in place and hit the switch but didnt realise that people use there upstream a lot more than what they thought and many new vm users jumping on the torrent bandwagon still keeping upload speed maxed out crippiling the network.
Vm applied a quick fix bandaid through stm to keep the pressure off the ubr's but in many places untill they get more ubr's upgraded problems will remain.
Lets just hope vm decides to splash the cash this coming april with the new tax year and spend less on advertising and more on providing the great service we used to have.
The upgrade to docsis 3 is a good thing pity it just the 50mb users that are getting it ;(.
50 and 20mb will use docsis 3.0
There are lots of reasons why people would want a faster upload rate. For example those who want to host a gaming server on their pc, or those who like to broadcast a radio station from their pc. And yes there are some torrents that are legit!
kristoficus
23-02-2008, 14:10
You 20meggers are still getting better value than the 10meggers so quit complaining :P
XL = £1.85 per mbit
L = £2.50 per mbit (£6.25 per mbit on 4mbit)
I was told by a staff member at their head office that the 50mb connection will NOT be an upgrade, its gonna be a new connection that you have to upgrade to and they are thinking of charging around £50 for it a month BUT! its not a definate price yet.
That's not what we have been told. We have been told (by Virgin themselves) that it will be an extra tier.
I personally doubt Virgin Media will increase the upload speed by a huge amount due to the current Docsis 3 approved specification. The current spec only increases the download speed and NOT the upload; the total available upload capacity will still be the same and the current implementation.
The final spec will however allow for the upload channels to be bonded the same as the download, until then no hardware manufacturers are making hardware capable of bonding the upstream.
Hopefully it will just be a case of a software upgrade!
I personally doubt Virgin Media will increase the upload speed by a huge amount due to the current Docsis 3 approved specification. The current spec only increases the download speed and NOT the upload; the total available upload capacity will still be the same and the current implementation.
The final spec will however allow for the upload channels to be bonded the same as the download, until then no hardware manufacturers are making hardware capable of bonding the upstream.
Hopefully it will just be a case of a software upgrade!
This is total rubbish!!
Have you bothered to read the DOCSIS 3 specification sheet??
I can tell you now that upload AND download on DOCSIS 3 can do a HELLA lot more than what VM will supply, and lets face it, the up/down ratios are pretty rubbish to say the least!
Take into account the overheads, and 50Mb down with a 1.5Mb upload will be damn near crippled, it will need AT LEAST a 5Mb upload speed to be able to cope properly!
And also, DOCSIS 3 allows for CHANNEL BONDING, try searching for this too as it is very informative! :)
Welshchris
23-02-2008, 18:33
That's not what we have been told. We have been told (by Virgin themselves) that it will be an extra tier.
isnt that was i said????????
Quote:
Originally Posted by kev445 http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33628895-20-meg-to-50-meg-upgrade-page-3.html#post34494343)
I personally doubt Virgin Media will increase the upload speed by a huge amount due to the current Docsis 3 approved specification. The current spec only increases the download speed and NOT the upload; the total available upload capacity will still be the same and the current implementation.
The final spec will however allow for the upload channels to be bonded the same as the download, until then no hardware manufacturers are making hardware capable of bonding the upstream.
Hopefully it will just be a case of a software upgrade!
This is total rubbish!!
Have you bothered to read the DOCSIS 3 specification sheet??
I can tell you now that upload AND download on DOCSIS 3 can do a HELLA lot more than what VM will supply, and lets face it, the up/down ratios are pretty rubbish to say the least!
Take into account the overheads, and 50Mb down with a 1.5Mb upload will be damn near crippled, it will need AT LEAST a 5Mb upload speed to be able to cope properly!
And also, DOCSIS 3 allows for CHANNEL BONDING, try searching for this too as it is very informative! :)
what i think he means is the current Pre-DOCSIS3 kit, he is confusing the pre kit as full official spec, ITS NOT.
"bronze" bonds 4 of the downstream and adds Multicasting,ipv6 etc
and currently uses one upstream, but we are talking a usable 40Mbit/s per stream (for the slower non Euro version)for both the download and the UPLOAD, so its not all bad for now,not that VM will give the user anywere near that usable bandwidth ,justas you dont get to use anywere near the current 1.1 10Mbit+ upload rate.
"silver" adds the matching 4 upstreams,Qos Multicasting, and extra security etc
as far as i know, all the kit VM are trialing are based on the TI Puma 5, a cable modem chipset based on Docsis 3.0, and it appears that isnt designed to do more than the minimum 4 down/4 up channel bonding
but it is designed to have 2 chipsets on the same board, so some form of 8 channel bonding can be made to work in the future IF they/VM see fit to supply/buy in such a dual fitted board (EUE,End User Equipment) CPE (Customer Premeses Equipment) for longer term investment, expansion and savings.
if you really want to see some interesting facts as found so far by me, take a look at the thread
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/10/33624637-virgin-media-announces-50mb-lines-next-page-8.html
iv put several current (at the time of posting)bits of public info regarding the spec,hardware and so on.
remember though some of that is for the generic US DOCSIS3 not the faster EuroDocsis3 spec that VM will use i assume.
109,113,114 sollp,118toto, and 119 are all relevent when taken together to meet the spec and the reshuffle of the spectrum.
isnt that was i said????????
Yes. I was backing you up.
what i think he means is the current Pre-DOCSIS3 kit, he is confusing the pre kit as full official spec, ITS NOT.
"bronze" bonds 4 of the downstream and adds Multicasting,ipv6 etc
and currently uses one upstream, but we are talking a usable 40Mbit/s per stream (for the slower non Euro version)for both the download and the UPLOAD, so its not all bad for now,not that VM will give the user anywere near that usable bandwidth ,justas you dont get to use anywere near the current 1.1 10Mbit+ upload rate.
"silver" adds the matching 4 upstreams,Qos Multicasting, and extra security etc
as far as i know, all the kit VM are trialing are based on the TI Puma 5, a cable modem chipset based on Docsis 3.0, and it appears that isnt designed to do more than the minimum 4 down/4 up channel bonding
but it is designed to have 2 chipsets on the same board, so some form of 8 channel bonding can be made to work in the future IF they/VM see fit to supply/buy in such a dual fitted board (EUE,End User Equipment) CPE (Customer Premeses Equipment) for longer term investment, expansion and savings.
if you really want to see some interesting facts as found so far by me, take a look at the thread
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/10/33624637-virgin-media-announces-50mb-lines-next-page-8.html
iv put several current (at the time of posting)bits of public info regarding the spec,hardware and so on.
remember though some of that is for the generic US DOCSIS3 not the faster EuroDocsis3 spec that VM will use i assume.
109,113,114 sollp,118toto, and 119 are all relevent when taken together to meet the spec and the reshuffle of the spectrum.
Sounds more like it!
You know, there is a very small part of my brain that thinks once everything is stable (IF ever they do) with the new 50Mb, that they may think about increasing the upload speeds on the 50 & 20Mb tiers, (aparently there is a whisper that the 20Mb tier will be moved to DOCSIS 3, but dont quote me on that)
But then again, wishfull thinking on my part i guess!
PowerUser
24-02-2008, 08:54
How many sites can actually give you the FULL 50Mb speeds??
So unless you'r using torrents to download or upload, it'd be pretty useless!
You've not used premium News providers then ?. you would get full 100Mb using this service. torrent are very bad way of judging speed. As your relying on other peoples upload speed limits.
Anyway, What good is 50Mb if you can only download for 10-15mins between 4pm and 9 pm
Anyway, What good is 50Mb if you can only download for 10-15mins between 4pm and 9 pm
You might not be able to use the full 50Mb download speed for long between 4pm and 9pm (5 hrs), but you'll probably have already downloaded plenty in the 19 hrs before/after STM operates (for most people).
In fact I'd imagine that someone on a 50Mb connection would rarely find a need to download much in peak usage hours.
Obviously, ymmv in which case I'd recommend you regrade down to 2Mb...
:erm:
Robertus
24-02-2008, 12:14
There going to crash hard with 50mb then because atm you cant even see 20mb most of the time no matter what your doing once or twice a week anyone?.
So how this super duper 50mb is going to change performance over 20 or even old 10mb is a non starter sure you might see 1 or 2 fast downloads in a week but thats where it stops, upload speed will be nowhere near 5mb look at the upload ratio that was on 10 or 20mb 1.5-2 is about on the money.
p.s enjoy hitting the stm faster :).3
Actually yes I can hit 20mb "most of the time" and I'm pretty sure they're using Docsis 3.0 for 50mb, so it shouldn't interfere with other services (I could be wrong on this).
Do your research before spouting such ****.
Thanks for the personal attack hope your happy on 50mb when it comes out then more bw on 10 or 20 for the rest of us :) and can i suggest you go and do some RESEARCH on cable networks not just docsis3.
Jonnymeg
24-02-2008, 18:41
Thanks for the personal attack hope your happy on 50mb when it comes out then more bw on 10 or 20 for the rest of us :) and can i suggest you go and do some RESEARCH on cable networks not just docsis3.
I have had cable broadband since the month it came out and have ALWAYS had the service i pay for. I can ALWAYS max out my 20mb connection so i am looking forward to the 50mb option.
IMHO there are too many people who mistake the shortcomings of websites and download severs for a failing on the part of the ISP.
When ever i download binaries from usenet i get 2.4-2.6MB/s so i know my connection is fine.
I have had cable broadband since the month it came out and have ALWAYS had the service i pay for. I can ALWAYS max out my 20mb connection so i am looking forward to the 50mb option.
IMHO there are too many people who mistake the shortcomings of websites and download severs for a failing on the part of the ISP.
When ever i download binaries from usenet i get 2.4-2.6MB/s so i know my connection is fine.
same mate, i think people just come on here, see all the problems and assume virgin are a terrible isp.
Ive also been with them since about 2001 - broadband has been second to none. I reckon theres a LOT of people out there with excellent connections with vm, but the minority on here see only the complaints and guess vm customers dont get the speeds they pay for.
Sirpingalot
24-02-2008, 19:52
same mate, i think people just come on here, see all the problems and assume virgin are a terrible isp.
Ive also been with them since about 2001 - broadband has been second to none. I reckon theres a LOT of people out there with excellent connections with vm, but the minority on here see only the complaints and guess vm customers dont get the speeds they pay for.
I don't believe that is the case.
xspeedyx
24-02-2008, 22:49
Well you think about it vm have 3 million customers and they all dont read cf and complain about there speeds. So please doback up your comments
I bet quite a few of those 3 million don't actually get what they pay for whether they know it or not. I know I don't. But then again I'm more concerned with the actual quality of my connection and not the outright speed, as I don't feel the need to try and download the internet.
Unless I contact all those customers personally then you will just have to accept that is my opinion on the matter. I guess all the dissenters on here represent what is going on generally in all those individual areas, and I would suggest most of the cable network is now seeing speed/quality issues certainly where there is a decent sized population density.
xspeedyx
25-02-2008, 10:27
I undrstand what your saying but saying something without figures is a bit far fetched I can see that people have problems but if VM network was that bad then they would have gone out of business a long time ago
Sirpingalot
25-02-2008, 11:24
Well you think about it vm have 3 million customers and they all dont read cf and complain about there speeds. So please doback up your comments
I wouldn't have thought it needed backing up since it's so obvious - We have CF members from all around the country complaining, you can assume that if one person is experiencing poor speeds in an area, everyone is.
dilli-theclaw
25-02-2008, 11:27
I wouldn't have thought it needed backing up since it's so obvious - We have CF members from all around the country complaining, now you can assume that if one person is experiencing poor speeds in an area, everyone is.No you can't.
Sirpingalot
25-02-2008, 11:30
No you can't.
Why can you not? It's all the same network, I'm sure the bandwidth is divided equally (relative to what tos you're on)
dilli-theclaw
25-02-2008, 11:32
It may be all the same network but not everyone is connected to it in the same way.
For starters it may be a pc problem that's causing a speed problem.
It may be an installation problem.
It may be an old router.
There are any number of this that could cause speed problems, not just one.
Sirpingalot
25-02-2008, 11:36
It may be all the same network but not everyone is connected to it in the same way.
For starters it may be a pc problem that's causing a speed problem.
It may be an installation problem.
It may be an old router.
There are any number of this that could cause speed problems, not just one.
So what about the people that do have an ideal setup, that are complaining about speed issues? Surely other people with ideal setups will also be experiencing issues if the problem is network congestion, which in most cases it is..
dilli-theclaw
25-02-2008, 11:38
But that's not what you said.
You said that because ONE person is experiencing poor speeds EVERYONE is.
Which is incorrect.
Sirpingalot
25-02-2008, 11:45
But that's not what you said.
You said that because ONE person is experiencing poor speeds EVERYONE is.
Which is incorrect.
I'm not suggesting that one person is the cause of the problem, rather a symtom. I'm saying that this symtom could be suggestive of other people experiencing similar problems.
And I didn't mean Everyone quite as litteraly as that, but you can assume that most people are experiencing similar issues to the person with an ideal setup that is eperiencing problems.
dilli-theclaw
25-02-2008, 11:47
Ah so you're changing what you're saying :tu:
Fair enough.
Sirpingalot
25-02-2008, 11:56
Ah so you're changing what you're saying :tu:
Fair enough.
The CF members that have complained cover the majority of the country (possibly all of the country?). If you assume that these members have an ideal setup (we've already established that if one person with an ideal setup is experiencing problems then MOST people are within that network) then that means most of the country is experiencing speed issues.
DocDutch
25-02-2008, 11:59
so Sirping, assuming you have the "ideal setup" what do you assume that should be?
dilli-theclaw
25-02-2008, 12:00
But you can't assume that most of these members have an ideal set up - reading these forums can tell you that!
And we didn't establish anything - you assumed that because you THINK it is then it is FACT.
You can't say that most of the country are having speed problems without PROOF.
Assumptions are not proof.
Sirpingalot
25-02-2008, 12:02
Ah so you're changing what you're saying :tu:
Fair enough.
I would consider that to be an agreement.
dilli-theclaw
25-02-2008, 12:03
An agreement that you have changed the argument to fit, indeed it was.
Sirpingalot
25-02-2008, 12:07
And we didn't establish anything - you assumed that because you THINK it is then it is FACT.
Assumptions are not proof.
It seems rather obvious if you consider that if bandwidth is shared equally (relative to what tier you're on) then if one person with this ideal setup is having speed problems then most others within the network (UBR) are. And we can only THINK because we aren't given the facts. Forums are the breeding grounds for thinking!
---------- Post added at 12:07 ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 ----------
An agreement that you have changed the argument to fit, indeed it was.
Well, you didn't debate the point..
dilli-theclaw
25-02-2008, 12:11
It seems rather obvious if you consider that if bandwidth is shared equally (relative to what tier you're on) then if one person with this ideal setup is having speed problems then most others within the network (UBR) are.
You keep changing what you're saying to fit.
I never said there wasn't prioblems, just that just because one person is having problems doesn't mean that evertyone in that area is.
---------- Post added at 12:07 ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 ----------
Well, you didn't debate the point..
I don't need to - you added to the point thus rendering the original point wrong (on your part) as you are changing it to fit what you are trying to say.
Sirpingalot
25-02-2008, 12:19
You keep changing what you're saying to fit.
Develop a point to come to a conlusion..:shrug:
---------- Post added at 12:19 ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 ----------
I never said there wasn't prioblems, just that just because one person is having problems doesn't mean that evertyone in that area is.
And I've moved on from saying that EVERYONE is, but you can assume that certainly MOST people are..
dilli-theclaw
25-02-2008, 12:21
All I'm saying is that your original point is wrong.
I've not seen anything since to back up what you're saying. Although yout point in post 67 is the closest to what i'd agree with.
I'm not saying anything more than that.
---------- Post added at 12:21 ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 ----------
---------- Post added at 12:19 ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 ----------
And I've moved on from saying that EVERYONE is, but you can assume that certainly MOST people are..No you can't - you still haven't given any proof of this. Just assumptions. I'd be happy to agree with you when you provide proof of what you are saying.
DocDutch
25-02-2008, 12:22
sirpingalot, okay so you are saying that every single customer of VM has problems with their internet connection, or at least that is what you are saying based on the say roughly 10k members that CF has which are posting issues with BB? 10k out of 3million or more is what 0.3%? thats not alot I would say.
have a look at say a ADSL customer and check how many are paying for 8meg and are getting something like 2mb?
you can argue this from all sides and what you said bout IDEAL SETUP there isnt 1. I can get a full 20meg connection with a win98se computer as with a MAC on 10.4.11 or Vista, XP, linux you name it.
then I can do the same at another location where my father in law lives who has a 2meg connection and again would have same results.
so your reasoning behind all this is a bit FLAWED
Sirpingalot
25-02-2008, 12:31
All I'm saying is that your original point is wrong.
I've not seen anything since to back up what you're saying. Although yout point in post 67 is the closest to what i'd agree with.
I'm not saying anything more than that.
---------- Post added at 12:21 ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 ----------
No you can't - you still haven't given any proof of this. Just assumptions. I'd be happy to agree with you when you provide proof of what you are saying.
That proof is what I mentioned earlier about bandwidth being shared equally. And sure, the STM comes into this somewhere but the foundation for that point still lies.
---------- Post added at 12:31 ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 ----------
sirpingalot, okay so you are saying that every single customer of VM has problems with their internet connection, or at least that is what you are saying based on the say roughly 10k members that CF has which are posting issues with BB? 10k out of 3million or more is what 0.3%? thats not alot I would say.
have a look at say a ADSL customer and check how many are paying for 8meg and are getting something like 2mb?
you can argue this from all sides and what you said bout IDEAL SETUP there isnt 1. I can get a full 20meg connection with a win98se computer as with a MAC on 10.4.11 or Vista, XP, linux you name it.
then I can do the same at another location where my father in law lives who has a 2meg connection and again would have same results.
so your reasoning behind all this is a bit FLAWED
I suggest you go back and re-read what I said.
dilli-theclaw
25-02-2008, 12:32
Well dude I think you and I are just going to have to disagree on this one.
Welshchris
25-02-2008, 13:51
I have had cable broadband since the month it came out and have ALWAYS had the service i pay for. I can ALWAYS max out my 20mb connection so i am looking forward to the 50mb option.
IMHO there are too many people who mistake the shortcomings of websites and download severs for a failing on the part of the ISP.
When ever i download binaries from usenet i get 2.4-2.6MB/s so i know my connection is fine.
i have to disagree, its not always the website or download server to blame.my problems have been with their UBRs themselves and they have been over subscribed for months and as a result my connection has been non existant at times.
It may be all the same network but not everyone is connected to it in the same way.
For starters it may be a pc problem that's causing a speed problem.
It may be an installation problem.
It may be an old router.
There are any number of this that could cause speed problems, not just one.
So if my cable connection is poor purely as a result of oversubscription, is it not safe to assume everyone in my area, ie. everyone connected through the same line card in the same UBR is suffering the same poor performance?
dilli-theclaw
25-02-2008, 14:17
I'm not sure what that's got to do with post 54 which is what I was replying to NOT the points you just raised.
Well it's one situation, and seemingly not an uncommon one, where you might be able to assume that if one person is experiencing poor speeds in an area, everyone is. I don't know, which is why I'm asking the question (edit: admittedly a very pointed question).
dilli-theclaw
25-02-2008, 14:57
I haven't seen any facts to back it up or deny it. A lot of people do seem to have problems though. But not everyone and I'm in no way convinced that everyone in every area (that has problems) is affected with the same problem.
But as I said I await the facts with interest.
The original point I was saying is that to say that just because someone is having a problem in an area doesn't mean that everyone is.
Yes a situation (such as the issue you pointed out) can be aadded to that statement to make it work.
If your ubr in your area is over congested your more or less guaranteed that 90% of the other users are having the same problems as yourself ideal setup or not, theres only so many times you can reformat, disconect router and change nic to be sure its not your computer then you spend time doing some wasting of money phoning support to be told your packet loss is over subscribed ubr and going to your neighbours and friends and seeing them having the same problems your having.
cf might have 10k members btw and i can bet my life that all 10k arent on vm services might be about half if your lucky, out of the full userbase of vm customers nationwide about 98% wont even know this places exists and then youve got about another 60% of customers who just doint know when there connections are going wrong with speed issues and packet loss.
Even if we had over a thousand people complaining that's less than 3% of the membership of this site (nearly 40,000 members). Gosh I wish I had 97%+ of people happy with my business!!!!!!
Kymmy ;)
I dont think making assumptions on any part is good practise, however id see a forum as a place to discuss and share opinions.
If you have facts to backup what you say, excellent, but in the end theres not much chance of that when 3 million people are involved. Everyone is entitled to share their own opinion based on their own experience. If an arguement is based on assumptions and opinions, theres not gonna be much progress is there?
I only expressed my opinion as the majority of VM's customers are happy with their broadband service, however these customers may not know theres issues with their bbi service, unlike enthusiasts who will be able to spot issues.
Again, i dont have any facts or evidence to back it up, but its my opinion and people will disagree or agree based on their personal experience.
Enjoy the ongoing debate :) - But its worth respecting others thoughts.
J x
Sirpingalot
25-02-2008, 16:14
I don't think any of you, with the exception of possibly Jefferson understand what I'm getting at..
dilli-theclaw
25-02-2008, 16:23
Indeedy, just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I don't understand you :tu: ;)
I don't think any of you, with the exception of possibly Jefferson understand what I'm getting at..
Sorry old bean but I'm with you on this one, my lone post yesterday was most likely overlooked :p
I can only post at night....
Trying to estimate customer satisfaction levels is impossible for us on here, especially when the vast majority don't even know about CF, and would they even know they were being undersold ?
I still maintain that the network is fit to burst, with no facts to substantiate that claim whatsoever ;) just going off my experiences here.
I am going to try the 50 meg just to see if it is a better network generally, if it isn't then I may as well drop back to the lowest tier and admit defeat.
may post again after Battlefield.....
Hey folks
just a few quick questions really
does anyone know what the upload speed will be for the 50mb connection ?
and the usage limits?
5mb upload !! please!! ;);)
bigsinky
26-02-2008, 15:10
haven't time to trawl through the posts but does the ntl 250 blue modem only support about 42-43 Mbit? If so, if anyone who wants the 50 Mbit tier package are going to need a new modem. can you overclock these modems so to speak or is the modem going to fall over if it gets a 50Meg burst down the line?
cheers
big sinky
you will require a new modem for the 50meg package
bigsinky
26-02-2008, 17:25
any idea which modem VM will be using for their 50 Mbit package. Also if they are traffic shaping the 20 Mbit atm what's it going to be like at over twice that speed. is anywhere getting the 50 Mbit yet?
on in an hour!
26-02-2008, 18:15
the new version is an ambit 256 :)
xspeedyx
26-02-2008, 18:23
STM has not yet been confirmed if it will be used on 50Mb the upload atm is set at 1.5Mb
bigsinky
27-02-2008, 07:38
so the upload is even slower as a % of the full bandwidth. 768kbit for 20Mbit service and only 1.5 Mbit for the 50Mbit service. Thats just 3% if the total band width. Ho hum looks like another load of 500GB drives will have to be bought :-) I think Giganews is going to get another battering ;-)
Daffy Duck
27-02-2008, 09:00
[quote=Sirpingalot;34495189]It seems rather obvious if you consider that if bandwidth is shared equally (relative to what tier you're on) then if one person with this ideal setup is having speed problems then most others within the network (UBR) are. And we can only THINK because we aren't given the facts. Forums are the breeding grounds for thinking!
---------- Post added at 12:07 ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 ----------
Lets use that logic the othe way then.
If one person on a UBR is getting full speed we can then assume most others are as well (same logic,different starting point).If they're not and,using your logic they should be because the bandwidth is shared equally,it must be because their setup is different in someway to that one person that is.If it's their setup that's causing the problem then that isn't VM's problem (unless it's the supplied VM equipment) it's the customers.
In other words,as long as one customer in an area gets full speed then VM have no problems in that area.....it's all down to the customers equipment.
That's obviously NOT true tho.....whichever area you go to you'll find some people with problems and some people without problems......the relative ratios of those two groups may vary ,but you'll find both groups.
You can't draw any meaningful conclusions from an example of one.
bigsinky
27-02-2008, 09:10
have a look at say a ADSL customer and check how many are paying for 8meg and are getting something like 2mb?
Sorry guys n gals, i have to agree here. I have never had a problem with NTL/VM and with usenet i regularly max out my 20 meg connection. yes it slows at peak periods but then my computer is never switched off so i just toddle off in the knowledge that my files will be downloaded sometime. however, my girlfriend lives 20 miles from Belfast and Tiscali stated that her line would support 1.5 Mbit on ADSL. she is lucky if she gets half of that speed at anytime during the day. I am a happy VM customer, in fact when i got $ky HD installed i kept my cable connection with VM and went back to BT. i dunno, i must be just one of the lucky ones.
BrightonJohn
27-02-2008, 23:20
Sorry guys n gals, i have to agree here. I have never had a problem with NTL/VM and with usenet i regularly max out my 20 meg connection. yes it slows at peak periods but then my computer is never switched off so i just toddle off in the knowledge that my files will be downloaded sometime. however, my girlfriend lives 20 miles from Belfast and Tiscali stated that her line would support 1.5 Mbit on ADSL. she is lucky if she gets half of that speed at anytime during the day. I am a happy VM customer, in fact when i got $ky HD installed i kept my cable connection with VM and went back to BT. i dunno, i must be just one of the lucky ones.
If there was one bit of VM that I would not change it would be the 20Mb Broadband - works like a dream - all the time. The phone service is also reliable and since I bullied the tech people to look in the right place even the sound drops on the V+ Box have been cured.
Sirpingalot
27-02-2008, 23:57
[quote=Sirpingalot;34495189]It seems rather obvious if you consider that if bandwidth is shared equally (relative to what tier you're on) then if one person with this ideal setup is having speed problems then most others within the network (UBR) are. And we can only THINK because we aren't given the facts. Forums are the breeding grounds for thinking!
---------- Post added at 12:07 ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 ----------
Lets use that logic the othe way then.
If one person on a UBR is getting full speed we can then assume most others are as well (same logic,different starting point).If they're not and,using your logic they should be because the bandwidth is shared equally,it must be because their setup is different in someway to that one person that is.If it's their setup that's causing the problem then that isn't VM's problem (unless it's the supplied VM equipment) it's the customers.
In other words,as long as one customer in an area gets full speed then VM have no problems in that area.....it's all down to the customers equipment.
That's obviously NOT true tho.....whichever area you go to you'll find some people with problems and some people without problems......the relative ratios of those two groups may vary ,but you'll find both groups.
You can't draw any meaningful conclusions from an example of one.
Point taken.
janipewter
29-02-2008, 13:35
Sorry guys n gals, i have to agree here. I have never had a problem with NTL/VM and with usenet i regularly max out my 20 meg connection. yes it slows at peak periods but then my computer is never switched off so i just toddle off in the knowledge that my files will be downloaded sometime. however, my girlfriend lives 20 miles from Belfast and Tiscali stated that her line would support 1.5 Mbit on ADSL. she is lucky if she gets half of that speed at anytime during the day. I am a happy VM customer, in fact when i got $ky HD installed i kept my cable connection with VM and went back to BT. i dunno, i must be just one of the lucky ones.
Yes, one of the few lucky ones. I'm lucky to get 2Mbit out of my 20, and that's during off-peak hours.
bigsinky
02-03-2008, 01:39
Yes, one of the few lucky ones. I'm lucky to get 2Mbit out of my 20, and that's during off-peak hours.
£37 for a 2Mbit service. Totally unacceptable. Don't suppose it would do you any good to complain. what speeds do you think you would get if you downgraded to a 2 or 4Mbit service?
I have to say that when my cable connection went down NTL were out the next day and replaced my Ambit modem with the new NTL250.
My 20 meg is spot on get 20 meg all the time apart from 4-9pm when it normally drops to around 1.6m download.
Would it bugger!!!
How many sites can actually give you the FULL 50Mb speeds??
So unless you'r using torrents to download or upload, it'd be pretty useless!
This is what VM fail to inform everyone, that just because they "provide" 50Mb, dont mean to say that any websites do, certainly speed tests would be even more far out.
It’s not virgins job to inform you of limits they don’t have control over.
Just about every car in the UK can travel over 100Mph but you can’t legally go over 70Mph unless you are an enthusiast who takes there car along to track days. Similarly if you are download enthusiast and use the newsgroups and pay for Giganews or similar you will probably get a 40-50Mbit connection. Other wise 15Mbit is what you will connect to most sites at if your lucky.
bigsinky
02-03-2008, 22:35
It’s not virgins job to inform you of limits they don’t have control over.
Similarly if you are download enthusiast and use the newsgroups and pay for Giganews or similar you will probably get a 40-50Mbit connection. Other wise 15Mbit is what you will connect to most sites at if your lucky.
i agree Giganews or easynews could possibly max out a 50 meg connection, but they might have to increase the number of concurrent connections allowed to their servers. giganews allow 20 SSL connections atm. i have a feeling this will have to increase. your disc space shrinks at an alarming rate when downloading from newsgroups unless you back up to DL DVD or Bluray(which is a PITA). if VM increase speeds to 50 meg then i for one will have to be a lot more selective in my downloads.
how aboutt he download limit from 4-9 ont he 50meg connection? any news as to what that will be? maybe 5GB?
webcrawler2050
03-03-2008, 12:32
Been sent this by tech support
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/existingcustomers/faster/schedule.html
bigsinky
03-03-2008, 18:45
how aboutt he download limit from 4-9 ont he 50meg connection? any news as to what that will be? maybe 5GB?
my 20Mbit connection drops to about 5Mbit at peak hours, so by that reckoning 50Mbit would may go to 12 - 13Mbit.
Not really the 50m will be running on DOCSIS 3 system compared to the old DOCSIS1/2 so if anything it should be good and if loads jump over to it(heavy downloaders) it should make the 20/10/2 much better.
hokkers999
04-03-2008, 00:52
£37 for a 2Mbit service. Totally unacceptable. Don't suppose it would do you any good to complain. what speeds do you think you would get if you downgraded to a 2 or 4Mbit service?
I have to say that when my cable connection went down NTL were out the next day and replaced my Ambit modem with the new NTL250.
I downgraded from 10 meg to 2 meg and it's been rock solid ever since. Works very nicely thanks.
Hope they keep that option when they do all these changes later on this year.
webcrawler2050
04-03-2008, 00:55
I am considering upgrading to 20 mb my 4 mb connection just dont cut it!
webcrawler2050 You think 20mb cut's it,lol downgrade to 2mb it will be faster.
antm2209
11-03-2008, 20:55
webcrawler2050 You think 20mb cut's it,lol downgrade to 2mb it will be faster.
hmmm ye u keep believing that lol :erm:
I am on 20mb with vip package and very happy with vm. I get 19mb most of the time but at peak can drop down to 8mb. Not a problem at all. Much better than what ADSL can offer in my area less than 2mb! I use usenext and get the download speed i pay for on there so very happy. Will not hesitate to go onto the 50mb when comes out as i realy could do with the extra upload even tho it aint that much of an increase. As i do alot of online gaming and find that the 20mb is not good for hosting games as it is only around 786kbs. 1.5mb is what is first coming out i believe. But i hope they can increase this maybe just a little bit more. My ping is great around the world also :D
I been on 20 meg since november when we moved into a VM area and its been faultless, never been down, speeds always 2.3mbs on usenet and in peak times drops to around 1.6 which as antmn2209 said with his adsl i could only manage 5 meg on adsl so i got no complaints, best part in the package deal it works out at £22 a month which is even better.
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