View Full Version : Does this mean I've been cloned?
lucevans
22-11-2007, 13:53
Just happened to look at the log in my modem today, and noticed some entries I've never seen before:
First TimeLast TimePriorityDescription
Thu Nov 22 09:28:41 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:41 2007 Information (7)The s/w filename specified in the config file is the same as ...
Thu Nov 22 09:28:41 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:41 2007 Information (7)A software upgrade filename was specified in the config file.
Thu Nov 22 09:28:41 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:41 2007 Information (7)Authorized
Thu Nov 22 09:28:41 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:41 2007 Information (7)Registration complete!
Thu Nov 22 09:28:40 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:40 2007 Information (7)We registered with a DOCSIS 1.0 config file!
Thu Nov 22 09:28:40 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:40 2007 Information (7)Received a REG-RSP message from the CMTS...
Thu Nov 22 09:28:40 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:40 2007 Information (7)Sending a REG-REQ to the CMTS...
Thu Nov 22 09:28:40 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:40 2007 Information (7)CableModem SNMP configure complete
Thu Nov 22 09:28:38 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:38 2007 Information (7)IP init completed ok
Thu Nov 22 09:28:38 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:38 2007 Information (7)CableModem TFTP init ok
Does this mean that Virgin have changed my config file, or is somebody else messing with my modem?
Bob
ECW_Original
22-11-2007, 14:03
By the looks of it, VM have upgraded the firmware in ur modem after checking that its legit.
I have read a lot on other forums about VM using telnet & other methods to access ur modem to check if its cloned or not.
Im sure someone will come along soon & either confirm or disagree with my post, and if relevant, will tell you the true meaning if I have this wrong :)
What modem do you have?
Updates are being done that may cause a flashing send or/and receive light. When normally they would be static, such as the Motorola 5100. If you have this but still have a connection then there is nothing to worry about.
lucevans
22-11-2007, 14:28
What modem do you have?
Updates are being done that may cause a flashing send or/and receive light. When normally they would be static, such as the Motorola 5100. If you have this but still have a connection then there is nothing to worry about.
It's an NTL 250, and the send/receive light has always flashed when transfering data. It still works fine (in fact I've just done a couple of speed tests and the download is the fastest I've ever got, but the upload seems slower than usual!). Maybe I'll start making a note of the software version from now on...
Toilet-Duck
22-11-2007, 14:28
Just happened to look at the log in my modem today, and noticed some entries I've never seen before:
First TimeLast TimePriorityDescription
Thu Nov 22 09:28:41 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:41 2007 Information (7)The s/w filename specified in the config file is the same as ...
Thu Nov 22 09:28:41 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:41 2007 Information (7)A software upgrade filename was specified in the config file.
Thu Nov 22 09:28:41 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:41 2007 Information (7)Authorized
Thu Nov 22 09:28:41 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:41 2007 Information (7)Registration complete!
Thu Nov 22 09:28:40 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:40 2007 Information (7)We registered with a DOCSIS 1.0 config file!
Thu Nov 22 09:28:40 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:40 2007 Information (7)Received a REG-RSP message from the CMTS...
Thu Nov 22 09:28:40 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:40 2007 Information (7)Sending a REG-REQ to the CMTS...
Thu Nov 22 09:28:40 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:40 2007 Information (7)CableModem SNMP configure complete
Thu Nov 22 09:28:38 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:38 2007 Information (7)IP init completed ok
Thu Nov 22 09:28:38 2007 Thu Nov 22 09:28:38 2007 Information (7)CableModem TFTP init ok
Does this mean that Virgin have changed my config file, or is somebody else messing with my modem?
Bob
I had the same thing this morning. Modem is a NTL 255
I had the same thing this morning. Modem is a NTL 255
Just checked my 250 event log and it also has the same.
Preparation for the 4>10mb upgrade ?
Don't have that on my 255 in South Wales
TraxData
22-11-2007, 21:31
It means they have given you the new dynamic config, nothing to worry about, just a counter measure to stop cloners.
lucevans
22-11-2007, 22:16
It means they have given you the new dynamic config, nothing to worry about, just a counter measure to stop cloners.
Thanks for that info TraxData - are there any VM Techs lurking here who could confirm this? Also, what does "dynamic config" mean? It sounds like a quicker, easier way for VM to downgrade my connection speed if they think I've downloaded too much...:erm:
Bob
ECW_Original
22-11-2007, 22:24
It means they have given you the new dynamic config, nothing to worry about, just a counter measure to stop cloners.
The really strange thing is; with all them clones being knocked out, I STILL cant get a decent speed!
how come my 255 logs look nothing like that, even the layout is different
First Time Last Time Counts Level ID Text
and mine is full of errors, in the txt comment, and warning(5) and critical(3) on every entry
lucevans
23-11-2007, 15:42
how come my 255 logs look nothing like that, even the layout is different
First Time Last Time Counts Level ID Text
and mine is full of errors, in the txt comment, and warning(5) and critical(3) on every entry
The 255 firmware probably looks slightly different to the (older) 250. Don't worry - I also get warning and critical entries in my log, I just didn't include them in the cut-and-paste here as they weren't relevant to my question!
Bob
TraxData
23-11-2007, 16:01
Thanks for that info TraxData - are there any VM Techs lurking here who could confirm this? Also, what does "dynamic config" mean? It sounds like a quicker, easier way for VM to downgrade my connection speed if they think I've downloaded too much...:erm:
Bob
It just means your mac and config will now show as as load of hashed number to anyone trying to search for macs to use (clone) in your area, so they wont any longer be able to use yours :)
It just means your mac and config will now show as as load of hashed number to anyone trying to search for macs to use (clone) in your area, so they wont any longer be able to use yours :)
I was just done too. But the mac appears to be plain txt. Well, I will wait a day and sniff again...
iTekweni
23-11-2007, 18:37
My modem has had plenty of updates today more than normal
lucevans
23-11-2007, 19:36
It just means your mac and config will now show as as load of hashed number to anyone trying to search for macs to use (clone) in your area, so they wont any longer be able to use yours :)
:cool: Well done VM - could that account for the sudden improvement I'm seeing on speedtests?
vmuser027
23-11-2007, 20:19
What about other modems then?
Smok3y666
23-11-2007, 20:31
It means they have given you the new dynamic config, nothing to worry about, just a counter measure to stop cloners.
Thats doesn't work. HAHAHAHA :cool:
TraxData
23-11-2007, 21:33
Thats doesn't work. HAHAHAHA :cool:
Actually, it does, its now impossible to force a config onto the clone :)
---------- Post added at 21:33 ---------- Previous post was at 21:33 ----------
:cool: Well done VM - could that account for the sudden improvement I'm seeing on speedtests?
Would be more than likely, when they've knocked over 6,000 cloners off :)
slowcoach
24-11-2007, 02:05
I got my config Friday morning, I am now peaking at higher download speeds than ever before. :)
Every time you boot a 250
Sat Nov 24 04:42:13 2007 Sat Nov 24 04:42:13 2007 Information (7) The s/w filename specified in the config file is the same as ...
Sat Nov 24 04:42:13 2007 Sat Nov 24 04:42:13 2007 Information (7) A software upgrade filename was specified in the config file.
Sat Nov 24 04:42:13 2007 Sat Nov 24 04:42:13 2007 Information (7) Authorized
Sat Nov 24 04:42:13 2007 Sat Nov 24 04:42:13 2007 Information (7) Registration complete!
Sat Nov 24 04:42:13 2007 Sat Nov 24 04:42:13 2007 Information (7) We registered with a DOCSIS 1.0 config file!
Sat Nov 24 04:42:13 2007 Sat Nov 24 04:42:13 2007 Information (7) Received a REG-RSP message from the CMTS...
Sat Nov 24 04:42:13 2007 Sat Nov 24 04:42:13 2007 Information (7) Sending a REG-REQ to the CMTS...
Sat Nov 24 04:42:13 2007 Sat Nov 24 04:42:13 2007 Information (7) CableModem SNMP configure complete
Sat Nov 24 04:42:11 2007 Sat Nov 24 04:42:11 2007 Information (7) IP init completed ok
Sat Nov 24 04:42:11 2007 Sat Nov 24 04:42:11 2007 Information (7) CableModem TFTP init ok
Hmmmm....
well i've just received my update on my 255, bad news is instead of 20meg highest i can get is around 5/6meg as of right now this morning and i noticed last night i was down to dialup speeds
TraxData
24-11-2007, 08:51
Every time you boot a 250
Hmmmm....
As i said, dynamic config.
Everytime the modem boots/reboots it will check the new config to make sure its legit and handshakes back properly with the network, if it doesnt, it lets you on, logs your address, then next time you reboot and it doesnt handshake (clone) it will let you on, check info its already logged,and then on the 3rd boot locks them completely and logs what ubr and roughly where the house is thats trying to use it ;)
Thats doesn't work. HAHAHAHA :cool:
Yes it does. ;)
There are loads crying about it over at the usual forums. It is making the modem Thieves lives a daily pain in the **** and for that i salute VM. What a shame they cannot make the modems set on fire, Now that would be fun.:LOL:
I think VM are certainly making it difficult. They will never get a 100% clone free service at the current rate. In fact I am not sure if any cable company can make that kind of claim.
I think VM are certainly making it difficult. They will never get a 100% clone free service at the current rate. In fact I am not sure if any cable company can make that kind of claim.
They will be able to when they go docsis 3 ;)
They will be able to when they go docsis 3 ;)
Well yeh, if they use modems that can't be hacked, but DOCSIS 3 is a long way off, and I can't see VM forcing customers to take on new modems unless they want improved speeds.
I am puzzled.
I can still sniff macs...(TraxData said I wouldn't be able)
... and students in neighbouring houses in Guildford have stacks of modems running 60-80 MBs with no worry whatsoever....
I am puzzled.
I can still sniff macs...(TraxData said I wouldn't be able)
... and students in neighbouring houses in Guildford have stacks of modems running 60-80 MBs with no worry whatsoever....
From what i have been told they are rolling it out area by area, that's what it says on a well known forum .
Ahah. I now understand what VM are doing. A question
How can VM make sure that the encrypted certificate is delivered to a legit modem and not a clone?
Ahah. I now understand what VM are doing. A question
How can VM make sure that the encrypted certificate is delivered to a legit modem and not a clone?
That would be something that would not be made public i would assume.
lucevans
24-11-2007, 15:33
What a shame they cannot make the modems set on fire, Now that would be fun.:LOL:
That would certainly make it obvious if your neighbour was stealing your cable connection..:afire: Not sure the fire brigade would be too happy about it though...
Well, I have now found a 2005 paper by a Cisco engineer here (http://www.cable360.net/ct/data/15302.html) that outlines some of the techniques used by NTL albeit a bit late.
Berealwith
24-11-2007, 16:42
On 20mb here,s my speed now
Sat, 24 Nov 2007 16:34:00 UTC
Test 1: 1024K took 10803 ms = 94.8 KB/sec, approx 781 Kbps, 0.76 Mbps
Test 2: 1024K took 8747 ms = 117.1 KB/sec, approx 965 Kbps, 0.94 Mbps
Test 3: 1024K took 10270 ms = 99.7 KB/sec, approx 822 Kbps, 0.8 Mbps
Test 4: 2048K took 14458 ms = 141.7 KB/sec, approx 1168 Kbps, 1.14 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 934 Kbps, 0.91 Mbps
I have been cloned...........By Virgin, yes Virgin has cloned me. They have cloned my bandwith to make more money.....robbing sharks
Cobbydaler
24-11-2007, 17:11
Well, I have now found a 2005 paper by a Cisco engineer here (http://www.cable360.net/ct/data/15302.html) that outlines some of the techniques used by NTL albeit a bit late.
Interesting reading, thanks... :tu:
TraxData
24-11-2007, 17:16
I think VM are certainly making it difficult. They will never get a 100% clone free service at the current rate. In fact I am not sure if any cable company can make that kind of claim.
You should take a look at fios, 5 years, not 1 single cloned modem, impossible to break the encryption used like with skys :)
---------- Post added at 17:16 ---------- Previous post was at 17:15 ----------
That would be something that would not be made public i would assume.
Indeed.
I will just leave it with this,
A real (none clone) sends certain information back, which is impossible with a cloned modem, so the clone cannot handshake with the network and thus wont get any bandwith ;)
You should take a look at fios, 5 years, not 1 single cloned modem, impossible to break the encryption used like with skys :)
---------- Post added at 17:16 ---------- Previous post was at 17:15 ----------
Indeed.
I will just leave it with this,
A real (none clone) sends certain information back, which is impossible with a cloned modem, so the clone cannot handshake with the network and thus wont get any bandwith ;)
It's all public. I am reading the CISCO papers.
"A cable modem must be able to register with the Cisco CMTS before enabling the Dynamic Shared Secret feature."
This is the one weakness of the whole system. I need to read more to find out how to.
A second way:
One question: Is it illegal to copy the guts of my legit modem and distribute it to interested parties?
If the answer is no, then anti-cloning can easily get defeated. One legit modem, can be used to create x-1 clones, where x is the number of nodes.
TraxData
24-11-2007, 18:54
It's all public. I am reading the CISCO papers.
"A cable modem must be able to register with the Cisco CMTS before enabling the Dynamic Shared Secret feature."
This is the one weakness of the whole system. I need to read more to find out how to.
A second way:
One question: Is it illegal to copy the guts of my legit modem and distribute it to interested parties?
If the answer is no, then anti-cloning can easily get defeated. One legit modem, can be used to create x-1 clones, where x is the number of nodes.
Yes it's illegal, and your wrong, cant be, and wont work, trust me ;)
But hush hush on the subject now
wtaylor82
24-11-2007, 21:56
I've got the same text to. nothing to worry about
On 20mb here,s my speed now
Sat, 24 Nov 2007 16:34:00 UTC
Test 1: 1024K took 10803 ms = 94.8 KB/sec, approx 781 Kbps, 0.76 Mbps
Test 2: 1024K took 8747 ms = 117.1 KB/sec, approx 965 Kbps, 0.94 Mbps
Test 3: 1024K took 10270 ms = 99.7 KB/sec, approx 822 Kbps, 0.8 Mbps
Test 4: 2048K took 14458 ms = 141.7 KB/sec, approx 1168 Kbps, 1.14 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 934 Kbps, 0.91 Mbps
I have been cloned...........By Virgin, yes Virgin has cloned me. They have cloned my bandwith to make more money.....robbing sharks
What the hell are you talking about??
slowcoach
25-11-2007, 13:50
Just noticed that since getting the new config my Downstream Receive Power Level has gone from 9.7 to -8.8
You should take a look at fios, 5 years, not 1 single cloned modem, impossible to break the encryption used like with skys :)
---------- Post added at 17:16 ---------- Previous post was at 17:15 ----------
Indeed.
I will just leave it with this,
A real (none clone) sends certain information back, which is impossible with a cloned modem, so the clone cannot handshake with the network and thus wont get any bandwith ;)
Still talking articulated twaddle i see traxxy:dunce:
found this years ago in 1997 ,almost forgot we had it
enjoy (look familiar?)
http://packetstorm.linuxsecurity.com/Exploit_Code_Archive/ciscocrack.c
Still talking articulated twaddle i see traxxy:dunce:
found this years ago in 1997 ,almost forgot we had it
enjoy (look familiar?)
http://packetstorm.linuxsecurity.com/Exploit_Code_Archive/ciscocrack.c
So Trax goes back five years, that makes it roughly 2002. Your link goes back to 1997, so you are saying then that in ten years, or five years since 2002, Cisco has not beefed up its encryption algorithm?
I can still sniff macs...(TraxData said I wouldn't be able)
Can't see that they can stop this unless they change the basic network topology - a mac address is obtained using the ancient arp protocol if you need to communicate with a user in the same network (quite likely with p2p?). I would hope, however, that the public mac address you see is not the private one needed for authentication!
PPPOA ADSL modems get given a full 255.255.255.255 netmask which means there's no local network - and this causes lots of problems with half-bridge modems that have to spoof the gateway and/or netmask - so please don't go down this route VM!
Still talking articulated twaddle i see traxxy:dunce:
found this years ago in 1997 ,almost forgot we had it
enjoy (look familiar?)
http://packetstorm.linuxsecurity.com/Exploit_Code_Archive/ciscocrack.c
This it was addressed in 2002 (http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/707/cisco-sa-20020617-cmts-md5-bypass.shtml) :rolleyes:
But I am not saying that the current encryption is RSA proof. This is a public key cryptosystem... How do they authenticate the modem to start with?
I am not convinced that ntl knows what they are doing. There are several reports that NTL bricked legitimate modems. NTL has also reduced the speed to 1KB for several legitimate customers. I am not convinced that they have not legitimized modded modems either.
And the cloners continue business as usual....
Smok3y666
12-12-2007, 13:18
This it was addressed in 2002 (http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/707/cisco-sa-20020617-cmts-md5-bypass.shtml) :rolleyes:
But I am not saying that the current encryption is RSA proof. This is a public key cryptosystem... How do they authenticate the modem to start with?
I am not convinced that ntl knows what they are doing. There are several reports that NTL bricked legitimate modems. NTL has also reduced the speed to 1KB for several legitimate customers. I am not convinced that they have not legitimized modded modems either.
And the cloners continue business as usual....
Mines still going strong :)
Has it ever occured to you whingers that some cloners know more about vm
network than the engineers?:D
you only know what you see on easy to get on forums
dont think cloners are going to give you any information of any worth do you?
for those on a personal crusade to stop clones give it up or become a clone:p:
Smok3y666
12-12-2007, 17:27
Just got a 20mb config working, back to the good old days again. This forum is wierd. Everyone moans about how **** the VM network/service is but you all still pay them? Are you mad?
Just got a 20mb config working, back to the good old days again. This forum is wierd. Everyone moans about how **** the VM network/service is but you all still pay them? Are you mad?
Well bully for you :p:
dont you just wish you were a clone engineer like us:angel:
constant 42mb dowloadin every film under the sun 24/7
makes you cry dont it
bet you whingers dont get no sleep worrying if we cloned your mac:o:
dont you just wish you were a clone engineer like us:angel:
constant 42mb dowloadin every film under the sun 24/7
makes you cry dont it
bet you whingers dont get no sleep worrying if we cloned your mac:o:
It's spelt "clown".........
Love the name - are you "1337 H4xx0r"?
edit shh cant say that . best not speak edit edit
what a joke you make out we dont know nothing and evrything is top secret
well get on this
cloners get informed by vm executives what they are up to and when
so as you can see by recent events we are always one step ahead:dunce:
Do you find it difficult to hear and speak, considering where your head is? ;)
dont you just wish you were a clone engineer like us:angel:
constant 42mb dowloadin every film under the sun 24/7
makes you cry dont it
bet you whingers dont get no sleep worrying if we cloned your mac:o:
How about paying for your services? Noone likes a thieving scumbag... There's a good boy... :rolleyes:
It's spelt "clown".........
Love the name - are you "1337 H4xx0r"?
no im a 1337/1338/1339 H4xx0r cos i got a stack of three
no im a 1337/1338/1339 H4xx0r cos i got a stack of three
Well you know what they say - if you have to boast about your equipment, it's probably because it doesn't perform very well.......;)
If you got out more and met a nice girl/boy/hermaphrodite, you probably wouldn't need to download all that "educational" material. :D
Impz2002
12-12-2007, 18:59
dont you just wish you were a clone engineer like us:angel:
constant 42mb dowloadin every film under the sun 24/7
makes you cry dont it
bet you whingers dont get no sleep worrying if we cloned your mac:o:
Your an idiot. When VM are finished rolling out their Anti-Cloning measures you wont be so smug.
One day not too long from now you will find you can no longer thieve your bandwidth from VM and your cloning spree will be over.
Have fun while it lasts!
Now, run along you don't want to waste any of the little time you have left!
p.s. Maybe you should spend some time learning basic spelling and punctuation.
Thanks :)
Impz
Smok3y666
12-12-2007, 19:14
I'm in one of the areas where their anti-cloning measures were first introduced and they don't work, like it or not the fun will last for a long time yet.
Guys, don't give this "clone engineer" ( I nearly soiled myself when I saw that ) the airtime.
Let them brag all they want, and lets get back to the more serious subjects we have come to enjoy chatting about.
Mr Angry
12-12-2007, 19:32
Hmmmmm....
Smok3y666
12-12-2007, 20:15
Guys, don't give this "clone engineer" ( I nearly soiled myself when I saw that ) the airtime.
Let them brag all they want, and lets get back to the more serious subjects we have come to enjoy chatting about.
Poor internet service from VM?
In some cases, yes - but not theft.
Why do you raise the moral issue of stealing a service?
They are simply ridiculing Vomit Media's incompetence.
It is scientific curiosity. They have every right to boast. If a scientist discovers something new, gives a talk and writes a paper, boasting about it. Like this guy (http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/) :rolleyes:
I am very impressed with Sigma software. The cloners have done some nice coding (very bright indeed) in comparison to Ross Anderson's social engineering bull. Think about it.
Scientific curiosity?
Come on iglu, if it were just curiosity they would say, "Yes, that worked, I'll move on to something else"
Theft is theft, and that is EXACTLY what they are doing. Call it nice coding if you like, but it does not justify theft of service.
Scientific curiosity?
Come on iglu, if it were just curiosity they would say, "Yes, that worked, I'll move on to something else"
The challenge is continuous. Their latest trick to write protect their modded modems has stopped NTL bricking them. I found their idea brilliant and hilarious at the same time. The cloner had to study the datasheet of the chip and s\he provided a well-presented explanation.
RSA is secure, NTL has to find a way implementing it... until then it's a game...
I'm sorry, that still doesn't cut it, its theft mate, nothing else to it.
Why do you raise the moral issue of stealing a service?
They are simply ridiculing Vomit Media's incompetence.
It is scientific curiosity. They have every right to boast. If a scientist discovers something new, gives a talk and writes a paper, boasting about it. Like this guy (http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/) :rolleyes:
I am very impressed with Sigma software. The cloners have done some nice coding (very bright indeed) in comparison to Ross Anderson's social engineering bull. Think about it.
Because it's theft, that's why, and affects others adversely.
Change the noun from "modem" to "car security systems" - does the same logic hold true when you get your car taken from outside your house?
Whilst they may be innovative, they are doing it to steal - we don't praise the fine technical labs of drug dealers, highlighting the innovations they have introduced to streamline the process; imho, neither should we be praising cloners for the challenges they overcome.
Because it's theft, that's why, and affects others adversely.
Change the noun from "modem" to "car security systems" - does the same logic hold true when you get your car taken from outside your house?
Whilst they may be innovative, they are doing it to steal - we don't praise the fine technical labs of drug dealers, highlighting the innovations they have introduced to streamline the process; imho, neither should we be praising cloners for the challenges they overcome.
I disagree. NTL has the duty to provide the required security. And yes the majority of the cloners are thieves. Some are in it for the challenge.
We do praise security experts that find "holes". Cloners do the same, their tricks, are there for Cisco engineers to see. I do not know whether Cisco sucks or NTL is not uptodate.
If your IT system gets compromised, your ar$se is on the line. It's your responsibility to make it secure. There is no doubt the compromise is criminal.
I cannot stop smiling with their ingenious "read only mod", perhaps something is wrong with me. I enjoyed Ocean's eleven too....
I disagree. NTL has the duty to provide the required security. And yes the majority of the clones are thieves. Some are in it for the challenge.
We do praise security experts that find "holes". Cloners do the same, their tricks, are there for Cisco engineers to see. I do not know whether Cisco sucks or NTL is not autoupdate.
If your IT system gets compromised, your **** is on the line. It's your responsibility to make it secure. There is no doubt the compromise is criminal.
I cannot stop smiling with their ingenious "read only mod", perhaps something is wrong with me. I enjoyed Ocean's eleven too....
You can wrap sh** up to smell like roses all you want.
Theft is theft and cloners are thieving scumbags.
Hope that makes it clear enough
You can wrap sh** up to smell like roses all you want.
Theft is theft and cloners are thieving scumbags.
Hope that makes it clear enough
Did you read my message? I said that almost of them are thieves...
It will not stop me smiling for their simple, yet ingenious trick...Let's see what NTL will do about it ;)
I enjoyed "Catch me if you can ", am I evil?
But sirius m8.. its you who keeps waving the :LOL: flag everywhere
you have convinced yourself that the clones are dead :angel:
when infact they are very much alive.
whats your problem anyway? cant you download all them tb fast enough that you gloat about for the peanuts you pay for slowband
cant see how you do it anyway if you have slowband so you must be lying:dunce::PP:
:Peaceman::xmas:
flowrebmit
16-12-2007, 13:20
Sirius, not that I have any desire to support cloners, but I did wonder where your Avatar picture came from? Theft is theft is it not?:)
whats your problem anyway? cant you download all them tb fast enough that you gloat about for the peanuts you pay for slowband
:Peaceman::xmas:
Not anymore due to abuse of the system by cloners
Sirius, not that I have any desire to support cloners, but I did wonder where your Avatar picture came from? Theft is theft is it not?:)
It's from this page link (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/sirius.html) (I think, as it was one of the first to come up on Google).
Myself, I would not equate copying an avatar freely available on the web with the wholesale theft of bandwidth and the detriment of other users modems by cloning (imho).
Sirius, not that I have any desire to support cloners, but I did wonder where your Avatar picture came from? Theft is theft is it not?:)
Got it from here http://www.avatarity.com/
And on this page http://www.avatarity.com/category/107/?p=11
Any more ?
---------- Post added at 13:30 ---------- Previous post was at 13:27 ----------
It's from this page link (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/sirius.html)
Good link will have a read of that page :tu:
It's from this page link (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/sirius.html)
From foreverwar's link:
NO PART OF THIS PAGE MAY BE REPRODUCED IN ANY MANNER WITHOUT PERMISSION.
HARRY POTTER, characters, names, and all related indicia are trademarks of Warner Bros. ©2001-2007.
From foreverwar's link:
NO PART OF THIS PAGE MAY BE REPRODUCED IN ANY MANNER WITHOUT PERMISSION.
HARRY POTTER, characters, names, and all related indicia are trademarks of Warner Bros. ©2001-2007.
but i did not use that page ?
---------- Post added at 13:38 ---------- Previous post was at 13:33 ----------
Myself, I would not equate copying an avatar freely available on the web with the wholesale theft of bandwidth and the detriment of other users modems by cloning (imho).
My feelings also.
For Iglu
NTL has the duty to provide the required security. And yes the majority of the clones are thieves. Some are in it for the challenge.
Can i take it from your postings that if i find a hole in the security of your house, its ok for me to steal your goods from your house. just for the challenge :)
I really can't be bothered with this thread, it's going around in circles. Unless something new is brought to it fairly soon, I can't see why it shouldn't be locked.
I really can't be bothered with this thread, it's going around in circles. Unless something new is brought to it fairly soon, I can't see why it shouldn't be locked.
You must do what you think is best :)
I really can't be bothered with this thread, it's going around in circles. Unless something new is brought to it fairly soon, I can't see why it shouldn't be locked.
I did say something new. The cloners now protect their modems from NTL attacks by making them "read only" using a "not be disclosed here" trick.
And speaking of cloning, I am having trouble with the quality of cloning this. (http://www.kuleuven-kortrijk.be/facult/wet/biologie/pb/kulakbiocampus/lage%20planten/Arabidopsis%20thaliana%20-%20Zandraket/Arabidopsis_thaliana-zandraket02.jpg)
flowrebmit
16-12-2007, 14:44
It's from this page link (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/sirius.html) (I think, as it was one of the first to come up on Google).
Myself, I would not equate copying an avatar freely available on the web with the wholesale theft of bandwidth and the detriment of other users modems by cloning (imho).
It was merely to illustrate that what is viewed as theft depends on ones view point (however misguided some views may be).
Freely available on the web just means already stolen many times before. The image would appear to be copyright theft, and Sirius has watermarked the image with a login name, which may possibly be viewed as attempting to claim copyright of the image. But I am not a lawyer.
I don't think that theft of broadband is the same as stealing that image either (but I don't own the copyright to that image - and the (c) holder may have a different view).
Mmmmmmm, moral relativism.
flowrebmit
16-12-2007, 15:20
I should have known it has a label. I am sure there is a good counter argument to it as well.
Moral pluralism - although they are not exclusive.
TraxData
16-12-2007, 16:31
I did say something new. The cloners now protect their modems from NTL attacks by making them "read only" using a "not be disclosed here" trick.
And speaking of cloning, I am having trouble with the quality of cloning this. (http://www.kuleuven-kortrijk.be/facult/wet/biologie/pb/kulakbiocampus/lage%20planten/Arabidopsis%20thaliana%20-%20Zandraket/Arabidopsis_thaliana-zandraket02.jpg)
And as i've said before, in newer areas that simply doesnt work.
I explained before, it has 3 attemps to handshake properly with the network, on the 3rd attempt of failure the system auto blacklists the mac and config.
Eventually the cloners will run out of macs to use and that'll be the end of that :)
And as i've said before, in newer areas that simply doesnt work.
I explained before, it has 3 attemps to handshake properly with the network, on the 3rd attempt of failure the system auto blacklists the mac and config.
Eventually the cloners will run out of macs to use and that'll be the end of that :)
You sound like a captain of a ship who can't accept its sinking :soapbox:
I do not know or care where you get your incorrect information from
but every time you post you make yourself look even more stupid than you already are :dunce: :LOL:
:xmas:
You sound like a captain of a ship who can't accept its sinking :soapbox:
I dont know or care where you get your incorrect information from
but every time you post you make yourself look even more stupid than you already are :dunce: :LOL:
:xmas:
That's OK, because every time you post, you make everyone else seem more intelligent...... ;)
One more petty insult and this thread closes.
TraxData
16-12-2007, 18:50
You sound like a captain of a ship who can't accept its sinking :soapbox:
I do not know or care where you get your incorrect information from
but every time you post you make yourself look even more stupid than you already are :dunce: :LOL:
:xmas:
It's not incorrect information though, i've seen it happen, and even on the forums you frequent at, members are posting about their clones dying and their macs being blacklisted, and why? because it isnt handshaking with the network.
You can sit and laugh as much as you like, but stealing net isnt going to be easy in the future.
Stealing bandwidth is indeed terrible...........it just seems worse for all the people who cant pilfer all that copyrighted material at full speed because of it eh:rolleyes:
And as i've said before, in newer areas that simply doesnt work.
I explained before, it has 3 attemps to handshake properly with the network, on the 3rd attempt of failure the system auto blacklists the mac and config.
Correct. But they have installed a little switch in the back, of course you know that, that's why you say
Eventually the cloners will run out of macs to use and that'll be the end of that :)
...but even myself, a non-cloner, I can still sniff them in Guildford :confused:
TraxData
16-12-2007, 19:07
Correct. But they have installed a little switch in the back, of course you know that, that's why you say
Yep, but it wont help, VM are only in phase 1 of their tactics, soon as phase 2 hits they'll be useless, again.
...but even myself, a non-cloner, I can still sniff them in Guildford :confused:
Yep, your areas hasnt been upgraded to dynamic configs yet, eventually they'll just display as random hash keys, same goes for the configs :)
I thought sniffing or scanning the vm network was illegal i've seen iglu mention this a few times now tsk tsk naughty boy can i ask why as a legal vm user you are sniffing the network?
I thought sniffing or scanning the vm network was illegal i've seen iglu mention this a few times now tsk tsk naughty boy can i ask why as a legal vm user you are sniffing the network?
Must be doing more than he's letting on. :)
iglu probably has some knives in the kitchen! he is a murderer!!!
let him sniff all he wants :)
deed02392
17-12-2007, 17:11
TraxData is cool. I'm glad to hear that stuff is being done to get those ****** of the networks and let the decent paying people get their moneys worth. I still can't help but think that there will always be a way in though.
TraxData is cool. I'm glad to hear that stuff is being done to get those ****** of the networks and let the decent paying people get their moneys worth. I still can't help but think that there will always be a way in though.
I think that's a given, those who know what they are doing will always fiddle around to see if something can be done to get through the most hardened security measures.
Making it more difficult means the casual thief gets put off very easily, only the hardened criminals will keep pushing, and they often get caught.
I think that's a given, those who know what they are doing will always fiddle around to see if something can be done to get through the most hardened security measures.
Making it more difficult means the casual thief gets put off very easily, only the hardened criminals will keep pushing, and they often get caught.
LOL i hope to the good lord traxxy and sirius are vm engineers:dunce:
highly unlikley though as they talk utter twaddle
'what you in for son'
spotty geek reply: i'm a hardend criminal that hacked a modem :angel:
LOL i hope to the good lord traxxy and sirius are vm engineers:dunce:
highly unlikley though as they talk utter twaddle
'what you in for son'
spotty geek reply: i'm a hardend criminal that hacked a modem :angel:
Crime is relative, I consider anyone who steels services / goods without paying for them, repeatedly, to be hardened.
TraxData
17-12-2007, 19:23
LOL i hope to the good lord traxxy and sirius are vm engineers:dunce:
highly unlikley though as they talk utter twaddle
'what you in for son'
spotty geek reply: i'm a hardend criminal that hacked a modem :angel:
It is TraxData, please learn that (if you can).
*unlikely
No matter how you wish to defend yourself (which is usually with a response of hatred, as per your other posts with name calling and such).
You sir, are still a criminal, and even the smoothest criminal must get caught one day.
MovedGoalPosts
17-12-2007, 19:29
I really can't see the point of keeping this thread alive. We've issued warning after warning that the team is getting cheesed off. All we're seeing is pettiness from the various "cloners are naughty" or "I clone so what" camps.
Bottom line, this forum has a clear policy. We do not condone any means of obtaining cable services without a proper subscription.
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