View Full Version : Overloaded UBR's
xspeedyx
19-11-2007, 12:00
As we have some techs on here maybe someone could compile a list of over sub UBR's so we can check this b4 ringing ts
Wicked_and_Crazy
19-11-2007, 12:17
In which case there would be no point in calling
The UBR's are not overloaded, it's just people abusing the network by downloading a few GB's. Don't you think if they were overloaded they would still be charging people and taking on new customers?
TraxData
19-11-2007, 12:22
The UBR's are not overloaded, it's just people abusing the network by downloading a few GB's. Don't you think if they were overloaded they would still be charging people and taking on new customers?
Yes, As that's how VM work.
If you hadnt noticed, they have also stopped ALL network upgrades.
Some UBR's have been oversubscribed for near a year and a half now (preston anyone?!!!)
So yes, they are overloaded/oversubscibed and VM still keep signing more people up.
And THAT, is the reason for STM, has nothing to do with heavy downloaders what so ever.
Wicked_and_Crazy
19-11-2007, 12:23
Don't you think if they were overloaded they would still be charging people and taking on new customers?
Yes, why wouldnt they, dont forget your buying an "upto" service
Yes, why wouldnt they, dont forget your buying an "upto" service
Does that mean that if they choose to give everybody on 20Mb just 1Mb they can? I didn't know that.
---------- Post added at 12:29 ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 ----------
If you hadnt noticed, they have also stopped ALL network upgrades.
Where did you hear that?
xspeedyx
19-11-2007, 12:53
its just a idea as that will give us a better insight
I am really sick and tired of hearing that word "upto" it has been done to death !
xspeedyx
19-11-2007, 13:16
and the worst is all companies use it
and the worst is all companies use it
Lets face it, they all have too, i'm waiting for the first one to actually guarantee speeds in writing. ;)
darkrage
19-11-2007, 13:19
yes upto means their or their abouts so by Vm's contract they should supply you with atleast upto 20meg so upto = 15meg and above constant but as lots of us on vm's network rarely get this speed they are breaking their terms and conditions according to cisas.org.uk and i am now currently in the process of formal complaint after that cisas take up the case if i dont get a satisfactory result and we go to court to release me from their contract and compensate me.
Lets face it, they all have too, i'm waiting for the first one to actually guarantee speeds in writing. ;)
Dont hold your breath tho......
I phoned tech about my shoddy service this morning after teh engineer had been out. The engineer was here literally 2 mins and said the line is fine its probably the UBR over subscribed. So i pohned tech support (i phoned through to retentions first who put me through to tech support as i didnt want to pay for the call) to be fair the guy was alright. He said there were 349 people on the 20mb service on the UBR i am on so it was not over subscribed he said 302 of them were online at the time of me calling (at this point i am receiving the full 20mb) the majority of time it goes down is peek times (5-2am ish). He basically said that is was overuse at these times (is this not the same as oversubscribed?) and there is a possability that people are uncapping there modems, which imo even if this was happening why would MY connection drop to 0.5mb -4mb surely it would just be capped at there supposed speed of 5-6mb between theses times? It never really got resolved although he did tell me to ring back again when the speed drops so they can run another test at the time of the speed drop. I have been told so many diffrent things over the last few weeks from the connecion to the modem may need re-wiring as it wears out (WTF) to packet loss (i checked and packet loss max was 18%) to oversubscription and overuse during peak times. Luckly for me i get my new isp this week i only have another month of Virgin and i told them i wasnt paying full price as i was not getting anywhere near the service promised to which suprisingly they agreed and halved my cost.
Crossy
xspeedyx
19-11-2007, 14:52
whos ur new ISP?
And THAT, is the reason for STM, has nothing to do with heavy downloaders what so ever.
all companies over subscribe, no ISP could supply 20mbit of bandwidth for a 2 digit sum per month. when you get a dedicated server with a 100mbit port, that isn't guarenteed either!
if people didnt download a lot, the 'oversubscription' wouldn't be a problem so it is in fact heavy downloaders causing the problems.
next time you're in a traffic jam, do you complain at your council and ask for a reduction in car tax due to oversubscribing the roads?
TraxData
19-11-2007, 14:56
all companies over subscribe, no ISP could supply 20mbit of bandwidth for a 2 digit sum per month. when you get a dedicated server with a 100mbit port, that isn't guarenteed either!
if people didnt download a lot, the 'oversubscription' wouldn't be a problem so it is in fact heavy downloaders causing the problems.
next time you're in a traffic jam, do you complain at your council and ask for a reduction in car tax due to oversubscribing the roads?
No, putting 600 customers on a ubr made for 450 customers MAX is what causes congestion/oversubscription, they use cheap level3 bandwith, and with the amount of customers they have its more than enough to pay for their bandwith and make a profit, if it wasnt, they wouldnt still be in business.
Got nothing to do with people downloading 24/7, you realise people uploading has more of a congestion effect than downloading right? :rolleyes:
I used to do this work for a living remember :p:
whos ur new ISP?
I have gone with Bethere mate.
xspeedyx
19-11-2007, 15:15
whats the point in having that speed if u cnt use it since stm has come in i do agree with it but complanies shouldnt offer speeds they cant deliever 24/7 as thats what u pay for
---------- Post added at 15:11 ---------- Previous post was at 15:11 ----------
I have gone with Bethere mate.
let us know how u get on
---------- Post added at 15:15 ---------- Previous post was at 15:11 ----------
No, putting 600 customers on a ubr made for 450 customers MAX is what causes congestion/oversubscription, they use cheap level3 bandwith, and with the amount of customers they have its more than enough to pay for their bandwith and make a profit, if it wasnt, they wouldnt still be in business.
Got nothing to do with people downloading 24/7, you realise people uploading has more of a congestion effect than downloading right? :rolleyes:
I used to do this work for a living remember :p:
he has a really good point. Did you work for vm or ntl or telewest then TD?
TraxData
19-11-2007, 15:20
whats the point in having that speed if u cnt use it since stm has come in i do agree with it but complanies shouldnt offer speeds they cant deliever 24/7 as thats what u pay for
---------- Post added at 15:11 ---------- Previous post was at 15:11 ----------
let us know how u get on
---------- Post added at 15:15 ---------- Previous post was at 15:11 ----------
he has a really good point. Did you work for vm or ntl or telewest then TD?
NTL mate, Quit last year.
Got bored of being taken for a ride!
whats the point in having that speed if u cnt use it since stm has come in i do agree with it but complanies shouldnt offer speeds they cant deliever 24/7 as thats what u pay for
no no no no you dont pay for 20mbit of bandwidth, if you did it'd cost a hell of a lot more than £37/month
and traxdata, yes i know upload has more of an effect but if you have 5x20mbit users on a single 100mbit line at some point, a 6th joining would slow down everybody
no no no no you dont pay for 20mbit of bandwidth, if you did it'd cost a hell of a lot more than £37/month
This is getting ridiculous. as far as we are concerned if we are paying for a 20Mb service then we wud expect it to be as close to 20Mb as it could possibly be, if they want to say that if we want 20Mb most of the time and even the time they take it off us when there is too many of us expecting to use it of an evening then they want more money, then why are they selling it at a fixed price? this has got to stop about all this *up to* and giving us what they want to give us and coming up with every excuse under the sun they can think of why they can have our money but not supply what we give them our money for! if they can't supply it and have no intention of supplying it then it is time they stopped getting away with this scandal, and spend some money that will enable them to be able to supply what they are selling!
TraxData
19-11-2007, 16:15
no no no no you dont pay for 20mbit of bandwidth, if you did it'd cost a hell of a lot more than £37/month
and traxdata, yes i know upload has more of an effect but if you have 5x20mbit users on a single 100mbit line at some point, a 6th joining would slow down everybody
Again, multiply by how many customers per ubr, £37/month more than pays the bandwith bill each month, if it didnt, VM just simply wouldnt be in business.
Except the lines aint 100mbit (per ubr) so dont see much of a point there?
As i said, max 450 customers per ubr, which can be maxed (download wise anyway, everybody maxin the upload would just cripple it) if its set up right (most are, thus why no need for STM on 10mbit).
Alot of ubrs they put more customers on than they should, and thats why we have STM, so they can sign up more customers without having to pay for the upgrades required for the new customers.
So you saying its heavy downloaders causing the problems is simply not true.
so basically stop using torrents and use newsgroups :)
so basically stop using torrents and use newsgroups :)
and what would you use 20mb for lol....
Seriously though people use it for ligit film dls. Iptv etc...
xspeedyx
19-11-2007, 16:43
no no no no you dont pay for 20mbit of bandwidth, if you did it'd cost a hell of a lot more than £37/month
and traxdata, yes i know upload has more of an effect but if you have 5x20mbit users on a single 100mbit line at some point, a 6th joining would slow down everybody
IF YOU DONT PAY FOR 20MB BANDWIDTH WHAT DO U PAY FOR AND BTWI AM STAFF AND DONT HAVE TO PAY THAT AMOUNT AS I WOULDNT AND I GET GOOD SPEEDS I JUST FEEL BAD FOR PEOPLE PAYING £37 FOR 20MB AND NOT GETTING THIS SERVICE
sorry about the caps didnt know until post made
Again, multiply by how many customers per ubr, £37/month more than pays the bandwith bill each month, if it didnt, VM just simply wouldnt be in business.
maybe so, but if someone is using 500gb+ in a month, there £37 doesn't cover the cost so why should other peoples payments cover someone else's bandwidth?
Except the lines aint 100mbit (per ubr) so dont see much of a point there?
that was a simple example, the upload problem on cable is only the case as there is less upload bandwidth available. saturation in either direction is just as bad as each other.
As i said, max 450 customers per ubr, which can be maxed (download wise anyway, everybody maxin the upload would just cripple it) if its set up right (most are, thus why no need for STM on 10mbit).
Alot of ubrs they put more customers on than they should, and thats why we have STM, so they can sign up more customers without having to pay for the upgrades required for the new customers.
So you saying its heavy downloaders causing the problems is simply not true.
you could put 5000 customers on a ubr (example, dont care if its possible or not), as long as those customers just check emails / bit of surfing etc then there will be 0 problems on that ubr. IF a ubr had a bandwidth limit of 100mbit (again, example!) and you put 10 x 20mbit users on it who are downloading 24/7 then they'd all complain at the speeds! It isn't just oversubscription thats the cause of STM but both that and heavy downloaders
TraxData
19-11-2007, 16:56
maybe so, but if someone is using 500gb+ in a month, there £37 doesn't cover the cost so why should other peoples payments cover someone else's bandwidth?
that was a simple example, the upload problem on cable is only the case as there is less upload bandwidth available. saturation in either direction is just as bad as each other.
you could put 5000 customers on a ubr (example, dont care if its possible or not), as long as those customers just check emails / bit of surfing etc then there will be 0 problems on that ubr. IF a ubr had a bandwidth limit of 100mbit (again, example!) and you put 10 x 20mbit users on it who are downloading 24/7 then they'd all complain at the speeds! It isn't just oversubscription thats the cause of STM but both that and heavy downloaders
1)Yes, it does, other customers on the ubr make up for it.
2)Wrong, you can quite happily have all customers maxin out on a ubr as long as you dont oversubscribe, you cannot however have all customers maxing upload out on the ubr as it will cripple it.
3)Again, that would be VM putting too many customers onto the ubr, oversubscribing it, so you cannot blame heavy users, the one and only point of STM is to allow them to put more customers on the network without having to upgrade, heavy downloaders is not even a part ofit, if you really believe their STM spin, well yes.
You need to look at how european isps do it, how servers handle the bandwith, Oversubscribing is what causes problems, not anything else.
xspeedyx
19-11-2007, 17:00
VM was and are having bandwidth problems as they are getting really big and they cant cope atm and they have lost lots of money since vm as the sky spat really messed them up and they spent alot of money on making vm and advertising so they need to cope with demand and the way they did that was instead of spending they started stm and they hope this would hold the bb speeds until they can cope with the upgrades
Web-Junkie
19-11-2007, 17:00
Since ExNTL/VM crammed too many people onto it's network and strained it well past breaking point, VM has adopted a 'dial up mentality' regarding peoples use of its internet service and have 'conveniently forgot' the internet of today and so force the old 'dial up' usage dogma on us!
A 20mb dial up connection, only VM could make that a reality!!
maybe so, but if someone is using 500gb+ in a month, there £37 doesn't cover the cost so why should other peoples payments cover someone else's bandwidth?
Other peoples payments shouldn't have to cover the cost. it really isn't the other customers problem, it is VMs. We have to get out of this brain washing thing that it is all our own faults, while they are sitting there raking in the money and making it worse by bringing more people into the arena.
you could put 5000 customers on a ubr (example, dont care if its possible or not), as long as those customers just check emails / bit of surfing etc then there will be 0 problems on that ubr. IF a ubr had a bandwidth limit of 100mbit (again, example!) and you put 10 x 20mbit users on it who are downloading 24/7 then they'd all complain at the speeds! It isn't just oversubscription thats the cause of STM but both that and heavy downloaders
I buy milk from the shop. I don't care about the ins and outs of how they get it from the cow and bottle it and then get it to the shop. I just give the man my money. that's all he wants is my money, not my help in getting it from the cow and bottle it and into the shops.
xspeedyx
19-11-2007, 17:06
depends if your on a farm and the man is lazy or has a day off lol
Before you go expecting technicians to start talking about which UBRs are or aren't oversubscribed, bear in mind that VM may well consider this commercially sensitive information. Basically, if anyone who knows starts saying that so-and-so area is oversubscribed in a public forum, then Sky and all VM's competitors could well find out that they need to compete in that area.
Thus, anyone who actually knows this info, and reveals it risks ending up being sacked for Gross Misconduct (thus possibly preventing them from getting another job).
Before you go expecting technicians to start talking about which UBRs are or aren't oversubscribed, bear in mind that VM may well consider this commercially sensitive information. Basically, if anyone who knows starts saying that so-and-so area is oversubscribed in a public forum, then Sky and all VM's competitors could well find out that they need to compete in that area.
Thus, anyone who actually knows this info, and reveals it risks ending up being sacked for Gross Misconduct (thus possibly preventing them from getting another job).
LOL I doubt very much if anyone cares, be they competitors or not.
Gross misconduct, you're guessing right?
donaldson2121
19-11-2007, 17:41
From a customers point of view don't you think it would be usefull to know which areas are suffering before you sign on the dotted line? And even for existing customers to know that the reason they may be experiencing poor speeds is because the UBR is oversubscribed?
I for one would like this information to be made more easily accessable to existing customers. But as you state in you post i wouldn't expect VM workers on this site to reveal this information.
From a customers point of view don't you think it would be usefull to know which areas are suffering before you sign on the dotted line? And even for existing customers to know that the reason they may be experiencing poor speeds is because the UBR is oversubscribed?
I for one would like this information to be made more easily accessable to existing customers.
Agreed, this is a help forum where we can come to get help :)
donaldson2121
19-11-2007, 17:53
Agreed, this is a help forum where we can come to get help :)
Pleased you share the same view although i dont believe that it should be people on this forum giving out this information. VM should have a graphical status page or something which shows the highest subscribed areas on their website etc
1)Yes, it does, other customers on the ubr make up for it.
that is what i said, but why should someone else pay for the bandwidth you use up? i await the day when ISPs give everyone the same speed for something like £5/month then charge a flat rate for the traffic you cause.
2)Wrong, you can quite happily have all customers maxin out on a ubr as long as you dont oversubscribe, you cannot however have all customers maxing upload out on the ubr as it will cripple it.
and how much does it cost to have a ubr that guarentees 20mb of bandwidth to every customer?
3)Again, that would be VM putting too many customers onto the ubr, oversubscribing it, so you cannot blame heavy users, the one and only point of STM is to allow them to put more customers on the network without having to upgrade, heavy downloaders is not even a part ofit, if you really believe their STM spin, well yes.
You need to look at how european isps do it, how servers handle the bandwith, Oversubscribing is what causes problems, not anything else.
oversubscription to me is (FOR EXAMPLE!) putting 6 20mbit users down a single 100mbit line. i have a server with a 100mbit port, the network is on doesn't guarentee me 100mbit and doesnt have 100mbit * servers it provides for. do i get 100mbit out of it? yes, so oversubscription is fine because servers are rarely maxed 24/7.
Before you go expecting technicians to start talking about which UBRs are or aren't oversubscribed, bear in mind that VM may well consider this commercially sensitive information. Basically, if anyone who knows starts saying that so-and-so area is oversubscribed in a public forum, then Sky and all VM's competitors could well find out that they need to compete in that area.
Thus, anyone who actually knows this info, and reveals it risks ending up being sacked for Gross Misconduct (thus possibly preventing them from getting another job).
I understand the comment but to be honest all it takes is few customers say this is bad that is bad and they get the picture anyway.
Whats VM going to do then sack its customers for saying we have very slow connection. Lot of people hated NTL god nows why it was first class compared to now. To me there running of the company was million times better than Virgin cattle herding aproach.
At least people under NTL got what you paid for. Its so cronically bad you just cant simply browse. Many sites you just get timing out as the DNS just disapears. By eck you scared when things work to go above your limit else the big stick comes down on you like a naughty schoolkid caught with hands in the cookie jar. Quite frankly I would like to see some staff lift the lid on VM sharp practices, however I realise those would not want to put there jobs at risk. Anyway they would just put an official badge to what we already know that VM service in broadband is sinking faster than the titanic.
yes upto means their or their abouts so by Vm's contract they should supply you with atleast upto 20meg so upto = 15meg and above constant but as lots of us on vm's network rarely get this speed they are breaking their terms and conditions according to cisas.org.uk and i am now currently in the process of formal complaint after that cisas take up the case if i dont get a satisfactory result and we go to court to release me from their contract and compensate me.
Hi...An occasional full stop would have made reading this much easier. :tu:
Thanks.
Pleased you share the same view although i dont believe that it should be people on this forum giving out this information. VM should have a graphical status page or something which shows the highest subscribed areas on their website etc
Would VM like to publically admit that they are over subscribed?
I don't think they would, it would mean people having a choice to walk away if they could see if their area was likely to be one of the areas that are having problems with the 20Mb :)
I understand the comment but to be honest all it takes is few customers say this is bad that is bad and they get the picture anyway.
Whats VM going to do then sack its customers for saying we have very slow connection. Lot of people hated NTL god nows why it was first class compared to now. To me there running of the company was million times better than Virgin cattle herding aproach.
At least people under NTL got what you paid for. Its so cronically bad you just cant simply browse. Many sites you just get timing out as the DNS just disapears. By eck you scared when things work to go above your limit else the big stick comes down on you like a naughty schoolkid caught with hands in the cookie jar. Quite frankly I would like to see some staff lift the lid on VM sharp practices, however I realise those would not want to put there jobs at risk. Anyway they would just put an official badge to what we already know that VM service in broadband is sinking faster than the titanic.
I personally think they should provide a list. However, I don't think they will, for the reasons I stated.
Regarding the comments about sky and the like using VM customer complaints as an indication. I don't think they would. They may accept their own surveys (which VM could not stop customers answering even if they wanted to), but I doubt they'd accept forum posts. If they see a thread with 10 people complaining of (say) slow connections in the Wirral, they have no way of knowing how many people are actually complaining (it could be one person using 10 accounts).
Similarly, Virgin can not stop customers complaining. However, their employees have access to actual evidence of where there are slow parts of the network. If someone posts this info and Virgin find out about it, Virgin can (and do) discipline those who publish this sort of information.
Put simply, if you or I posted about slow speeds, and someone from Sky saw it, they wouldn't bother too much (and neither would Virgin). If a known VM employee (like our ex-member Bill C) had access to VM's own data, and posted it, Sky would sit up and take notice, as would Virgin.
---------- Post added at 18:36 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------
LOL I doubt very much if anyone cares, be they competitors or not.
Gross misconduct, you're guessing right?
Regarding what they call it, yes, I am guessing.
Regarding the fact that they have threatened action against people for posting info on forums, no, I am not. I know of at least two people that have been officially told not to post on forums by Virgin.
The UBR's are not overloaded, it's just people abusing the network by downloading a few GB's. Don't you think if they were overloaded they would still be charging people and taking on new customers?
incorrect.
i just called VM canclation, they said "WE VM AGREE THAT WE ARE NOT ABLE TO PROVIDE YOU THE SERVICE WHICH WE SAID WE WOULD AND WHICH YOU PAY FOR" this was said by Brett Donnelly on the canclation team, he went on saying that it is because they are over subscribed, and "IT WILL COST A LOT OF MONEY TO IMPROVE IT"
WHICH THEY ARE NOT GOING TO DO ANY TIME SOON he said
Original Text: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34436444-post61.html
so i say they r overloaded, the were trying to say i cant cancle but move to 4mb.
i think ppl will not fight back like i did and go with 4mb. which will overload the 4mb servers. i think it is just not right, not solving the problem but shifting ppl over which will cause problems else where.
so the safe solution is to move to ADSL.
================================================== =
As we have some techs on here maybe someone could compile a list of over sub UBR's so we can check this b4 ringing ts
HA3 Area (Harrow & Brent, London)
themelon
19-11-2007, 19:14
inc
so the safe solution is to move to ADSL.
================================================== =
HA3 Area (Harrow & Brent, London)
Umm.........not really the safe solution.
Most ADSL providers are even worse. My supposed 8Mb line runs most of the time at a pittiful 1.5Mb, I live less than 1.5Km from the exchange. One of my work colleagues lives just down the road from the same exchange and can only get 3Mb on Be's 24Mb.
The only safe solution is to move out of Britian to somewhere like Sweden where they dont use crap out dated technologies that dont work.
Mick Fisher
19-11-2007, 19:21
Umm.........not really the safe solution.
Most ADSL providers are even worse. My supposed 8Mb line runs most of the time at a pittiful 1.5Mb, I live less than 1.5Km from the exchange. One of my work colleagues lives just down the road from the same exchange and can only get 3Mb on Be's 24Mb.
The only safe solution is to move out of Britian to somewhere like Sweden where they dont use crap out dated technologies that dont work.
:clap:
but sadly not a practical solution for most people at least. :(
The trouble is that it will always be greener somewhere else..until you are sitting the other side of the fence you were once looking over..
I just wish all the differing industry watchdogs had more fecking teeth than they all have at present and that they were doing more about the internet,tv,buses,trains,water,gas,electric,educat ion and all the other responsibilities they are supposed to be taking care of on the consumer's behalf.:rolleyes:
well i cant find any bad reviews about Be Broadband, unless some of the coustomers services r soo bad that they can not even access the internet to post their bad expierances
darkrage
19-11-2007, 20:09
Hi...An occasional full stop would have made reading this much easier. :tu:
Thanks.
lol yer i tend to rant, sorry about that.
If you and your mate live 1.5km from the exchange and get under 8mb there is something seriously wrong somewhere. I have a friends who are on BE one lives right next to the exchange the other around 2km hes gets around 16-17mb and 2mb up, the guy lives near the exchange gets around 20mb and 1.3mb up (hes on unlimited though not pro). And to be fair if you ring be and give them your details they give you a estimated speed before you buy depending on your distance from the exchange
themelon
19-11-2007, 21:20
well i cant find any bad reviews about Be Broadband, unless some of the coustomers services r soo bad that they can not even access the internet to post their bad expierances
Most people really dont care what speed they are getting or how close to the advertised it is.......as long as it works.
As long as 99% of people can access Hotmail and Facebook in the UK thats all they are bothered about.
ISPs can miss sell to their hearts content.
Fact of the matter is less than 40% of Be's customers get anything like the advertised speeds, its the nature of the technology........60%+ of the UK population live more than 2.5kms from a telephone exchange.
---------- Post added at 21:20 ---------- Previous post was at 21:16 ----------
If you and your mate live 1.5km from the exchange and get under 8mb there is something seriously wrong somewhere. I have a friends who are on BE one lives right next to the exchange the other around 2km hes gets around 16-17mb and 2mb up, the guy lives near the exchange gets around 20mb and 1.3mb up (hes on unlimited though not pro). And to be fair if you ring be and give them your details they give you a estimated speed before you buy depending on your distance from the exchange
ADSL is such a crap technology because it is so unpredicatable that is the problem. In theory things 'should work' but in reality they often dont as there are so many variable which can affect it.
Both Eclipse (my ADSL Service), BT and Be (Mates) have all investigated our lines and the exchange, the only suggestion they can make is replacing our telephone cables from the Pole at £175 which may or may not make things any better.
That obviously dosent cover Virgin customers then :)
---------- Post added at 21:30 ---------- Previous post was at 21:22 ----------
Even though this is only based on around 15000 votes Virgin have obviously got issues with every aspect of there BB wether it be speed or CS problems.
For me personally the grass has got to be greener on the other side unless i get less than 0.5-3mb.
http://www.dslzoneuk.net/isp_ratings.php
Also i dont know if u have tried tweaking it or not, maybe worth a try?
http://www.dslzoneuk.net/socket.php
No, putting 600 customers on a ubr made for 450 customers MAX is what causes congestion/oversubscription,
I've seen this quoted repeatedly throughout this thread and before someone rings up VM and quotes it down the line, can I inform you that it's not actually remotely accurate, by a factor of 10+. My UBR is humming along supporting a good bit more than that and I'm not especially noticing poor speeds.
I suspect TraxData is using old Langley data from the days (pre-2004) when no STBs were on the UBRs there, which isn't the case now and never was in TW or C&W-land. Add in higher modulation deployment, upgraded line cards etc. and you rapidly come adrift of the reality out there.
Neither is it true that we've stopped deploying new kit, in fact I found three new UBRs today.
TraxData
19-11-2007, 21:48
I've seen this quoted repeatedly throughout this thread and before someone rings up VM and quotes it down the line, can I inform you that it's not actually remotely accurate, by a factor of 10+. My UBR is humming along supporting a good bit more than that and I'm not especially noticing poor speeds.
I suspect TraxData is using old Langley data from the days (pre-2004) when no STBs were on the UBRs there, which isn't the case now and never was in TW or C&W-land. Add in higher modulation deployment, upgraded line cards etc. and you rapidly come adrift of the reality out there.
Neither is it true that we've stopped deploying new kit, in fact I found three new UBRs today.
Actually, im current data, hardware info and VM statistics (some of us do have access to that stuff u know :p:)
I'm sorry, but if you put more users than your supposed to on a system, if they decide to use the bandwith they are paying for, it cripples the system, everyone gets poor speeds, and VM play the "its your router sir" routine.
You even get told to play that routine when you go for the call centre jobs @ VM you know :rolleyes:
And, VM, have STOPPED network upgrades completely until the new year (hey dont moan at me, techs were informed a week or so ago, it was confirmed by VM i believe as well)
Berealwith
19-11-2007, 21:58
Well my UBR is maxed out to bursting point "Fact", i am on hold for my monthly payments as agreed with CS. This took hours on the phone, and i mean hours. I have been up and down the street chatting to neigbours on other ISP's and the other people on VM only 2Mb connections, they all don't really understand how to check never bothered as the kids go on it i only check holiday flights etc, this is how they get away with Oversubscribing. Most of the people on here who get to a level and start asking questions ?? they soon realise what is going on and go all around the houses, (check my speed, my modem signals, my router, ring tech, Then finally come to the same concluson, its VM all along !!!!!!! I'm am lucky that i have a date to when my UBR will get an upgrade.........and Boy i hope so !!!!!!!!
I hear its all the downloaders, I have never heard such CRAP, I posted up before i have 4 kids a wife and share 4mb each from a 20mb connection. Its not for downloading 24/7
Here's a thought i help lots of people out on setting up PC's and get some extra cash from this. But what i have noticed over the years the ISP's now give routers to new customers and more and more people want to share thier internet with other house users. So as this picks up the internet will go downhill and at this rate it will go even further........There is no magic wand, i see people putting posts up about newsgroups and this is becoming more and more widespead, and we all know where that will end up. "LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS". it could get to a state where even 8 year old johnny is on newsgroups...
Enough of my rantting........sorry to bore :-)
Actually, im current data, hardware info and VM statistics (some of us do have access to that stuff u know :p:)
I'm sorry, but if you put more users than your supposed to on a system, if they decide to use the bandwith they are paying for, it cripples the system, everyone gets poor speeds, and VM play the "its your router sir" routine.
You even get told to play that routine when you go for the call centre jobs @ VM you know :rolleyes:
And, VM, have STOPPED network upgrades completely until the new year (hey dont moan at me, techs were informed a week or so ago, it was confirmed by VM i believe as well)
Who have you spoken to? Don't tell me the well informed Installers. Can you elaborate on your fist sentence.
How many times does it actually be the router that is or isn't the problem.
IT Lemming
19-11-2007, 22:31
If you and your mate live 1.5km from the exchange and get under 8mb there is something seriously wrong somewhere. I have a friends who are on BE one lives right next to the exchange the other around 2km hes gets around 16-17mb and 2mb up, the guy lives near the exchange gets around 20mb and 1.3mb up (hes on unlimited though not pro). And to be fair if you ring be and give them your details they give you a estimated speed before you buy depending on your distance from the exchange
So this is a company that can test your line/location and actually give you an estimated up & down speed:) Wow, why dont Virgin do that....:mad:
Maybe because you wouldnt pay £37/month for 1Mb download:rolleyes:
Mick Fisher
20-11-2007, 00:47
The trouble is that it will always be greener somewhere else..until you are sitting the other side of the fence you were once looking over..
I just wish all the differing industry watchdogs had more fecking teeth than they all have at present and that they were doing more about the internet,tv,buses,trains,water,gas,electric,educat ion and all the other responsibilities they are supposed to be taking care of on the consumer's behalf.:rolleyes:
I gotta agree wholeheartedly with you on that.
And, VM, have STOPPED network upgrades completely until the new year (hey dont moan at me, techs were informed a week or so ago, it was confirmed by VM i believe as well)
Are you referring to network techs? That will be maintenance thats has been put on hold, so we can assist service/Repair
That will be because of the fast approaching xmas? The 50meg upgrades are going ahead, just after xmas, makes sense don't you think? Not to fiddle about in the middle of the festive season?
Heavy down-loaders aren't to blame??? That has to go up alongside cheques in the post etc!!!
Actually, im current data, hardware info and VM statistics (some of us do have access to that stuff u know )
Yes. So do I (which is why I have to be slightly careful what I say).
It occurred to me that when people say 'UBR' they might mean 'upstream', but again there's no hard-and-fast rule for number of devices per upstream. Terminological inexactitude is no excuse.
Wow, why dont Virgin do that.
For the same reason you don't make fish and chips out of baked beans and steak, or more prosaically download speed is unrelated to the line condition, unlike ADSL.
Routers - I'm on our school PTA and the other week we had a meeting at the Treasurer's house, and she has VM BB with a Belkin wireless router, which wasn't working. A quick check proved that the router was seriously off kilter, flooding the line with packets, so there was no room for the actual traffic. Remove the router, plug my laptop in, fine apart from a slightly low receive power level, so it does happen.
TraxData
20-11-2007, 16:35
Yes. So do I (which is why I have to be slightly careful what I say).
It occurred to me that when people say 'UBR' they might mean 'upstream', but again there's no hard-and-fast rule for number of devices per upstream. Terminological inexactitude is no excuse.
For the same reason you don't make fish and chips out of baked beans and steak, or more prosaically download speed is unrelated to the line condition, unlike ADSL.
Routers - I'm on our school PTA and the other week we had a meeting at the Treasurer's house, and she has VM BB with a Belkin wireless router, which wasn't working. A quick check proved that the router was seriously off kilter, flooding the line with packets, so there was no room for the actual traffic. Remove the router, plug my laptop in, fine apart from a slightly low receive power level, so it does happen.
Maybe we have access to the same things then, but yes, if you have access to that stuff you need to be very careful about what you said or you'll get in trouble.
But if you do have access to that stuff you'll know VM themselfs (before the namechange) had plans to implement STM as so they didnt have to upgrade the network and could handle the new customers after the namechange.
xspeedyx
20-11-2007, 19:24
As far as I cant remember it was a NTL thing the STM and telewest network was fast and not overloaded and they always seemed to be against stm
IT Lemming
20-11-2007, 22:36
For the same reason you don't make fish and chips out of baked beans and steak, or more prosaically download speed is unrelated to the line condition, unlike ADSL.
Routers - I'm on our school PTA and the other week we had a meeting at the Treasurer's house, and she has VM BB with a Belkin wireless router, which wasn't working. A quick check proved that the router was seriously off kilter, flooding the line with packets, so there was no room for the actual traffic. Remove the router, plug my laptop in, fine apart from a slightly low receive power level, so it does happen.
OK we know the difference between an cable line & an ADSL line, my point was VM should be able to tell me based on the line to my front door what sort of connection speeds I should be able to expect.
Are you telling me they dont analysis there own systems? That there is no way of them telling me, yes theoretically you can get 'up to 20Mb' however based on your location and the UBR you will be connected to you may only get less than 1.4Mb from 3pm until 12pm.
No the reason they don't tell us is that we wouldn't pay £37 if we new the system couldn't cope, and that we would actually only get a fraction of the speeds quoted :mad:
And forget about the router thing, it is a complete red herring, you must have been reading the CS script again. At 25p/min trust me we have all gone back to a direct connection before being ripped off for advice that 'it must be your end the system is fine here'
Berealwith
20-11-2007, 22:49
OK we know the difference between an cable line & an ADSL line, my point was VM should be able to tell me based on the line to my front door what sort of connection speeds I should be able to expect.
Are you telling me they dont analysis there own systems? That there is no way of them telling me, yes theoretically you can get 'up to 20Mb' however based on your location and the UBR you will be connected to you may only get less than 1.4Mb from 3pm until 12pm.
No the reason they don't tell us is that we wouldn't pay £37 if we new the system couldn't cope, and that we would actually only get a fraction of the speeds quoted :mad:
And forget about the router thing, it is a complete red herring, you must have been reading the CS script again. At 25p/min trust me we have all gone back to a direct connection before being ripped off for advice that 'it must be your end the system is fine here'
:clap: so true
on in an hour!
20-11-2007, 22:50
OK we know the difference between an cable line & an ADSL line, my point was VM should be able to tell me based on the line to my front door what sort of connection speeds I should be able to expect.
Are you telling me they dont analysis there own systems? That there is no way of them telling me, yes theoretically you can get 'up to 20Mb' however based on your location and the UBR you will be connected to you may only get less than 1.4Mb from 3pm until 12pm.
No the reason they don't tell us is that we wouldn't pay £37 if we new the system couldn't cope, and that we would actually only get a fraction of the speeds quoted :mad:
And forget about the router thing, it is a complete red herring, you must have been reading the CS script again. At 25p/min trust me we have all gone back to a direct connection before being ripped off for advice that 'it must be your end the system is fine here'
location and or distance from the UBR on cable doesnt make a difference,its purely a matter of bandwith availability,which has been done to death in numerous other threads ;)
Berealwith
20-11-2007, 22:55
location and or distance from the UBR on cable doesnt make a difference,its purely a matter of bandwith availability,which has been done to death in numerous other threads ;)
I have to ask "done to death" is that how it goes all Pi*s and Wind or has it ever got a result..........I know the VM Tech guys who come on here must know what is the truth.....go on someone spill the beans :shocked:
Even the tech guys are telling customers that there's nothing they can do for their connection as it's down to congestion and happening everywhere.
Berealwith
20-11-2007, 23:01
The main thing that doesn't stack up with that thought is, It changed over night once the upgrades were given, They caused the congestion, and i have not had adsl for years so i cannot say first hand if that is just the same, all i can do is sit and wait for the UBR upgrade for preston
on in an hour!
20-11-2007, 23:05
I have to ask "done to death" is that how it goes all Pi*s and Wind or has it ever got a result..........I know the VM Tech guys who come on here must know what is the truth.....go on someone spill the beans :shocked:
berealwith,
if you check out all my posts you will see that locally i have been helping people out as best i can (bigdavep and sallycinammon can back me up) i will do my upmost to help out users who come on this forum (lets face it that why youre here) but i am limited to being 'local'.hopefully some techs will view your posts and be able to help you (where do you live??) as for spilling the beans i do believe thats been 'done to death' as well :D
as for p**s and wind,im sorry to dissapoint you but im all bums,tits and B.W.F.C.
IT Lemming
20-11-2007, 23:11
The main thing that doesn't stack up with that thought is, It changed over night once the upgrades were given, They caused the congestion, and i have not had adsl for years so i cannot say first hand if that is just the same, all i can do is sit and wait for the UBR upgrade for preston
I have been on BB since C&W/NTL first introduced it, and I can tell you now that the original 512k I had was better than my current connection. I keep thinking I have gone back in time and am connected via a dial up again. All I need is the hour glass to tell me how long I have to wait and the sounds of the old modem logging on:D
Dont hold your breath on a UBR upgrade and things may get worse if they do introduce the 50Mb.:)
Berealwith
20-11-2007, 23:20
Cheers for the laugh, On in an Hour. i like tits and bums too lol. I know there are some great people on here who help others alot, and get very little reward for all their hard work. I am at a loss of how much money i spend on the biggest, fastest, and try my best to keep all the pc's running in our household, and then it all falls down once you let the ISP's start to take charge, Virgin for me has let me down but i heard from a person my UBR was going to get an upgrade in the near future, so i will wait. If that doesn't happen i don't know what to do.......maybe "Die a Death"-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->P.N.E.F.C
on in an hour!
20-11-2007, 23:26
Cheers for the laugh, On in an Hour. i like tits and bums too lol. I know there are some great people on here who help others alot, and get very little reward for all their hard work. I am at a loss of how much money i spend on the biggest, fastest, and try my best to keep all the pc's running in our household, and then it all falls down once you let the ISP's start to take charge, Virgin for me has let me down but i heard from a person my UBR was going to get an upgrade in the near future, so i will wait. If that doesn't happen i don't know what to do.......maybe "Die a Death"
either that or get back on dial-up m8,its as cheap as chips and about as fast as most internet connections these days :D :D :D
And forget about the router thing, it is a complete red herring, you must have been reading the CS script again. At 25p/min trust me we have all gone back to a direct connection before being ripped off for advice that 'it must be your end the system is fine here'
Trust me. BB King is waaay above CS in terms of knowledge (and network access). He *is* in a position to know what he talks about.
the_ghost
20-11-2007, 23:50
i am sick of hereing about people dloading all the time at the end of the day if you pay for the connection you should be able to use it when u want its like saying you can only use your mobile for 4 hrs a day lmfao. i dont d/l much just play fps but if peeps want to y not virgin should be blamed for not providing hte infrastructure required.
i am sick of hereing about people dloading all the time at the end of the day if you pay for the connection you should be able to use it when u want its like saying you can only use your mobile for 4 hrs a day lmfao. i dont d/l much just play fps but if peeps want to y not virgin should be blamed for not providing hte infrastructure required.
They (or any ISP) start doing that, and you can look forward to them either folding, or charging a *lot* more than £37 a month for 20 meg..
IT Lemming
21-11-2007, 00:17
Trust me. BB King is waaay above CS in terms of knowledge (and network access). He *is* in a position to know what he talks about.
I was not debating BB Kings obvious excellent knowledge (from other posts) or his level, more that CS run from a script, that would first blame the user and not there own network.
If I had a £ for every time CS told me it was a problem with my router, I would probably have paid for a months BB by now.
The point is that although there are a lot of knowledgable staff within VM as techs or even CS staff, there are far more that know nothing.
I once rang up Dell when a PC at work packed in, it was obvious that the power supply had failed, as the PC was not turning on. The CS guy at Dell running from his script kept asking me to remove the CD from the drive and then reboot the system. He didnt grasp the concept that the machine was dead!
I can't imagine that the people on the CS desk are computer experts, and therefore the rely on the script to guide them. VM is not run by idiots either they wouldn't put on the script that the UBR is overloaded, tough you will have to wait until the next infrastructure upgrade next year.
---------- Post added at 00:17 ---------- Previous post was at 00:08 ----------
They (or any ISP) start doing that, and you can look forward to them either folding, or charging a *lot* more than £37 a month for 20 meg..
If it costs more than £37 for VM to maintain, keep the infrastructure up to date, and make profit, then perhaps they need to do us all a favour and correctly band BB levels and charge the right amount.
Perhaps they could charge on usage like we have for phones, that would cut out all the downloaders and probably free up the network.:)
OK we know the difference between an cable line & an ADSL line, my point was VM should be able to tell me based on the line to my front door what sort of connection speeds I should be able to expect.
Are you telling me they dont analysis there own systems? That there is no way of them telling me, yes theoretically you can get 'up to 20Mb' however based on your location and the UBR you will be connected to you may only get less than 1.4Mb from 3pm until 12pm.
No the reason they don't tell us is that we wouldn't pay £37 if we new the system couldn't cope, and that we would actually only get a fraction of the speeds quoted :mad:
adsl companies dont do this, they tell you what you *can* expect out of your line, you *can* expect 20mb off virgin as distance doesn't matter on cable
---------- Post added at 01:04 ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 ----------
If it costs more than £37 for VM to maintain, keep the infrastructure up to date, and make profit, then perhaps they need to do us all a favour and correctly band BB levels and charge the right amount.
Perhaps they could charge on usage like we have for phones, that would cut out all the downloaders and probably free up the network.:)
that is the way it'll end up, give everyone a high speed connection at somethin like £5/month and charge for the traffic
darkrage
21-11-2007, 07:02
not all of us are downloaders some of us are into gaming which also takes up alot of bandwidth.
i am sick of hereing about people dloading all the time at the end of the day if you pay for the connection you should be able to use it when u want
They (or any ISP) start doing that, and you can look forward to them either folding, or charging a *lot* more than £37 a month for 20 meg..
:shocked:
Trust me. BB King is waaay above CS in terms of knowledge (and network access). He *is* in a position to know what he talks about.
I'll get me coat then
---------- Post added at 22:21 ---------- Previous post was at 22:14 ----------
I was not debating BB Kings obvious excellent knowledge (from other posts) or his level, more that CS run from a script, that would first blame the user and not there own network.
If I had a £ for every time CS told me it was a problem with my router, I would probably have paid for a months BB by now.
The point is that although there are a lot of knowledgable staff within VM as techs or even CS staff, there are far more that know nothing.
I once rang up Dell when a PC at work packed in, it was obvious that the power supply had failed, as the PC was not turning on. The CS guy at Dell running from his script kept asking me to remove the CD from the drive and then reboot the system. He didnt grasp the concept that the machine was dead!
I can't imagine that the people on the CS desk are computer experts, and therefore the rely on the script to guide them. VM is not run by idiots either they wouldn't put on the script that the UBR is overloaded, tough you will have to wait until the next infrastructure upgrade next year.
---------- Post added at 00:17 ---------- Previous post was at 00:08 ----------
If it costs more than £37 for VM to maintain, keep the infrastructure up to date, and make profit, then perhaps they need to do us all a favour and correctly band BB levels and charge the right amount.
Perhaps they could charge on usage like we have for phones, that would cut out all the downloaders and probably free up the network.:)
I agree when calling any CS at any company it's frustrating to get a set of questions, but you have got to understand the amount of faults that are cleared by these basic questions that are asked, believe me when i say that even after having these question put to the customers when a service Tech visits the house the amount of times that STB's have been unplugged,scart leads unplugged,smartcard in the wrong slot ect ect this is even after these basic question being put to the customer. So you might be brilliant at PC's routers how TV'S work, but the next person isn't and so on.
SapperGB
21-11-2007, 22:59
I'll get me coat then
---------- Post added at 22:21 ---------- Previous post was at 22:14 ----------
So you might be brilliant at PC's routers how TV'S work, but the next person isn't and so on.
This is fair enough, but why do you go through the same script every time you call TS?
For example i called TS 3 times the other night, each time i had to explain my problem (which i had reported days previously) even though the issue had 'supposedly' been passed to level 2 support.
I got so fed up of doing this i called CS on 150, i explained the problem there (uk call centre) and although the op wasnt equipped to deal with a internet problem he did say he had put a "Big red note" on my account stating that each call i made was to be refered to Tier2 support so TS india knew not to read the script to me.
This didnt work either.
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