About the throttling

[PhantomTa2]

OK, by now you've heard all the gripes and groans, and probably alot of cursewords regarding this, but I've tried talking to Tech Support, (I'm assuming they have their call centres in India?), and I can hardly understand what they're saying, (that may well be my problem, though), and for the most part, only a few of the people I've spoken to seem to know what they're talking about and I can't get a straight answer.
I was under the impression, from the Virgin Media Wikipedia, that on the XL package the download traffic shaping was something around the region of 3GB, then the throttling starts. I've mostly changed my usage habits so I don't use excessively after 4PM but am still getting throttled severely, and I've stopped downloading after 4PM pretty much completely unless I've been throttled anyway.
I'm from the Preston area and heard rumblings about a trial on upload throttling being tested here, is that true? If it is, why couldn't the tech support just tell me that instead of fobbing me off for over a week by not answering any of my emails and keeping me on the phone for 15 minutes at a time when I ring their premium rate number?
To be fair, I think it's pretty abysmal service, (not insulting any of the staff that works for them, well...none that I haven't spoken to), it was absolutely fantastic when it was Blueyonder but now it's definitely lacking.

---------- Post added at 22:28 ---------- Previous post was at 21:52 ----------

This what I'm currently getting:
Date 14/11/07 22:25:56
Speed Down 4653.73 Kbps ( 4.5 Mbps )
Speed Up 173.99 Kbps ( 0.2 Mbps )
Port 8095
Server speedtest1.adslguide.org.uk

Which is crap, really, as when we signed the contract with BY, unlimited meant unlimited. Seriously considering going with Be in the near future

[xspeedyx]

I understand you dont like STM however as I type this post I am throttled and as for the unlimited term which is used all the time and shouldnt you do in somewys get unlimited as you can still download as much as you like even when stm is in place as by or vm or ntl they never offered unlimited speed thats why stm was allowed to be brought in and as you said your going to be think of it this way if so many customers go to be then you might find stm will be brought it if they cant handle the bandwidth because they use phonelines and they are limited alot more than coax or fibre.


also dont use a online speed test use gamefiles.blueyonder.co.uk or another unlimited FTP

[PhantomTa2]

I get what you're saying, but that still leaves the question as to why they kept me on the phone for, (in total), way over an hour and didn't reply to any of my emails regarding the question, when they could just as easily, in less than a minute, explained about the upload throttling that they are testing in my area.

[xspeedyx]

lmao you think the ts in india understand stm or for that matter what trials are going on

[PhantomTa2]

Well, they should do, really, if they're the tech support. I would imagine it's in their interest to know what's going on at the company they're giving "support", (I use the term loosely), for.

[xspeedyx]

read my last post they know nothing its a book with a index page at the back and throttling is not on there

[Mick Fisher]

I've never been throttled so tonight I thought I'd get a bit of 1st hand experience.

I set up a 10gig download using 15 connections on NNTP at about 18.00 and was getting an up and down between 1meg to 5meg download averaging about 4meg out of my 20meg service. I am still downloading at 23.28 <YAWN> and should be well and truly STM'ed by now but the reality is my download is no longer up and down but is a rock solid 4.6meg.
Seems I'm marginally better off being STM'ed.
My conclusion is that under the present network difficulties STM is no longer an issue for me.

[xspeedyx]

enjoy the speed mick enjoy lol

[TraxData]

I understand you dont like STM however as I type this post I am throttled and as for the unlimited term which is used all the time and shouldnt you do in somewys get unlimited as you can still download as much as you like even when stm is in place as by or vm or ntl they never offered unlimited speed thats why stm was allowed to be brought in and as you said your going to be think of it this way if so many customers go to be then you might find stm will be brought it if they cant handle the bandwidth because they use phonelines and they are limited alot more than coax or fibre.


also dont use a online speed test use gamefiles.blueyonder.co.uk or another unlimited FTP

What a load of FUD.

It is NOT unlimited, that's physically impossible for it to be.

Once you hit 3gb, and here's they key word your connection is "LIMITED" down to 5mbit, which in turns, RESTRICTS the amount of data you can download (again, a limitation), which again, restricts the amount of data throughput, you cannot sit there and call it unlimited.

And please, STM was not brought in because of heavy users, as i stated in another thread, you must work for VM as you have no idea what your talking about.

STM was brought in as a stepping plate for them to not have to upgrade the network while being able to sign up even more customers extremely over the limit of the ubrs :rolleyes:

[Mick Fisher]

I've never been throttled so tonight I thought I'd get a bit of 1st hand experience.

I set up a 10gig download using 15 connections on NNTP at about 18.00 and was getting an up and down between 1meg to 5meg download averaging about 4meg out of my 20meg service. I am still downloading at 23.28 <YAWN> and should be well and truly STM'ed by now but the reality is my download is no longer up and down but is a rock solid 4.6meg.
Seems I'm marginally better off being STM'ed.
My conclusion is that under the present network difficulties STM is no longer an issue for me.
I don't know what time my test Download finished but, whatever, I should still be well and truly STM'ed at 01.29 but......................

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mick.fisher/speed%20test3.jpg

Seems as though STM isn't implemented here. :confused:

[xspeedyx]

What a load of FUD.

It is NOT unlimited, that's physically impossible for it to be.

Once you hit 3gb, and here's they key word your connection is "LIMITED" down to 5mbit, which in turns, RESTRICTS the amount of data you can download (again, a limitation), which again, restricts the amount of data throughput, you cannot sit there and call it unlimited.

And please, STM was not brought in because of heavy users, as i stated in another thread, you must work for VM as you have no idea what your talking about.

STM was brought in as a stepping plate for them to not have to upgrade the network while being able to sign up even more customers extremely over the limit of the ubrs :rolleyes:


I really think you dont like me I aint gonna get into its a limit its not a limit thing with you but why are u even bothered your no stm'd and more to the point YOU would be the first to complain if you had slow speeds if someone was hammering the connection

[SOSAGES]

traxdata is an angry person who seems to know more than the average person about whats going on :) its why hes on the business BB

[susan]

(I'm assuming they have their call centres in India?)

I had a women call me offering extra addition's of virgin media,i just made out the extra's,i said,hold on there gupta i will go and get the person who pay's the virgin media bill, i know this is abit childish,i went back to the phone 4 hour's later,and could'nt beleive it,i could hear what sounded like i was in a moped garage with the engine's learning to speak english,i put the receiver down with uncontrollable laughter.

So yes i really think india is the coolest place to get your moped tuned up.

[Knobbly]

(I'm assuming they have their call centres in India?)

I had a women call me offering extra addition's of virgin media,i just made out the extra's,i said,hold on there gupta i will go and get the person who pay's the virgin media bill, i know this is abit childish,i went back to the phone 4 hour's later,and could'nt beleive it,i could hear what sounded like i was in a moped garage with the engine's learning to speak english,i put the receiver down with uncontrollable laughter.

So yes i really think india is the coolest place to get your moped tuned up.

On the subject of "learning to speak English", have you ever considered it?

[susan]

I consider myself excellent english,i come from a little country called macedonia,македонски, i wonder how many language's you can speak.

[Knobbly]

I consider myself excellent english,i come from a little country called macedonia,македонски, i wonder how many language's you can speak.

Only one, English, properly.

[Acathla]

What a load of FUD.

It is NOT unlimited, that's physically impossible for it to be.

Once you hit 3gb, and here's they key word your connection is "LIMITED" down to 5mbit, which in turns, RESTRICTS the amount of data you can download (again, a limitation), which again, restricts the amount of data throughput, you cannot sit there and call it unlimited.

And please, STM was not brought in because of heavy users, as i stated in another thread, you must work for VM as you have no idea what your talking about.

STM was brought in as a stepping plate for them to not have to upgrade the network while being able to sign up even more customers extremely over the limit of the ubrs :rolleyes:

Without the want to do this over and over and over I'll just say my piece.

Your connection is unlimited in that it is always available to you to use. Whether you get your full 20meg or your 5meg does not distract from the fact that it is still unlimited. I think you are taking the literal definition of unlimited and using it to help your argument. VM do not advertise unrestricted speeds. They do not advertise Full 20Meg all the time. Yes I agree they should be clear and state that their unlimited claim relates to availability of connection and not unlimited speeds but come on!

Using your argument, when you do get full 20meg (which incidentally I would love - I struggle to break 9meg most days) you are still being limited. Albeit, limited to 20meg and not 5meg. Do you really want to fight for an unlimited connection? How much are you prepared to pay for the privileged? £100, £1,000, £10,000, £100,000, £37???

From data usage quotes you have made in previous posts, I am very happy that you are being restricted via the AUP, I do too most night. I don't agree that 3Gb within an 8 hour period is correct, I would like it to be 10Gb if it has to remain. I don't agree with a lot of what VM do but what I do agree is that as speeds increase and data throughput increases, bandwidth has to be paid for. £37 a month does not cover the cost of hundreds and hundreds of Gb that can potentially be downloaded. There needs to be some restrictions.

I am probably viewed as a heavy user, indeed I was the first on this forum to receive and post a Heavy Usage warning letter from NTL many moons ago. I certainly make good use of my connection. Yes, I get very annoyed when I need to use my connection between 4pm and midnight and I've hit the 3Gb barrier but I choose to accept this and stay with VM. I accept the rules and I live with them, doesn't mean I have to like them.

---------- Post added at 11:44 ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 ----------

Only one, English, properly.

.. but your use of punctuation needs some work :)

[Knobbly]

.. but your use of punctuation needs some work :)

Naw! It's punctuated as I intended to say it. ;)

[xspeedyx]

waits for td to rip apart your post

[susan]

Knobbly in my country represents the word penis,i guess it's the same for this country,what is Naw,i know,how Naw brown cow.

[Knobbly]

Knobbly in my country represents the word penis,i guess it's the same for this country,what is Naw,i know,how Naw brown cow.

Really? I thought "Tofilj" or "Kurot" represented that word, I guess you're the expert though.

[Ernie_C]

Knobbly in my country represents the word penis,i guess it's the same for this country,what is Naw,i know,how Naw brown cow.
Naw is Scottish for No. It can also be Nae as in 'nae chance'.

PS Scotland is also a little country like Macedonia.

[TraxData]

Without the want to do this over and over and over I'll just say my piece.

Your connection is unlimited in that it is always available to you to use. Whether you get your full 20meg or your 5meg does not distract from the fact that it is still unlimited. I think you are taking the literal definition of unlimited and using it to help your argument. VM do not advertise unrestricted speeds. They do not advertise Full 20Meg all the time. Yes I agree they should be clear and state that their unlimited claim relates to availability of connection and not unlimited speeds but come on!

Using your argument, when you do get full 20meg (which incidentally I would love - I struggle to break 9meg most days) you are still being limited. Albeit, limited to 20meg and not 5meg. Do you really want to fight for an unlimited connection? How much are you prepared to pay for the privileged? £100, £1,000, £10,000, £100,000, £37???

From data usage quotes you have made in previous posts, I am very happy that you are being restricted via the AUP, I do too most night. I don't agree that 3Gb within an 8 hour period is correct, I would like it to be 10Gb if it has to remain. I don't agree with a lot of what VM do but what I do agree is that as speeds increase and data throughput increases, bandwidth has to be paid for. £37 a month does not cover the cost of hundreds and hundreds of Gb that can potentially be downloaded. There needs to be some restrictions.

I am probably viewed as a heavy user, indeed I was the first on this forum to receive and post a Heavy Usage warning letter from NTL many moons ago. I certainly make good use of my connection. Yes, I get very annoyed when I need to use my connection between 4pm and midnight and I've hit the 3Gb barrier but I choose to accept this and stay with VM. I accept the rules and I live with them, doesn't mean I have to like them.

---------- Post added at 11:44 ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 ----------



.. but your use of punctuation needs some work :)


While they do not offer "20mbit" at all times (yes i know its not actually possible) due to congestion and other network factors, it is unacceptable to have a 75% speed drop.

They do however offer "No download limits†(unlike some of our competitors)" Which with congestion and other network factors aside, is a lie.

Difference being that once you hit the 3gb "Limit" they purposely restrict the amount of data you can download, that is a limitation of what you can download in that timeframe, so even if you count 365days/year into the factor, with STM the amount you can download has been cut and limited.

Again, it is simply not unlimited, you expect congestion and other network factors but however imo and many others (including those in the IT/Network industry) a 75% speed cut is not fair, and is a big limitation.

VM are even breaking their own rules on that part by cutting top tier users down to 5mbit, making 5mbit the threshold for what the network can handle, so 2/4mbit users should not get STM'd at all as they are below that limit (this was actually in their AUP stating 5mbit was the limit, though this was quickly removed when customers noticed it), Any change in contract VM by law, has to notify its customers of changes in one way or another, it did not, and does not ever do so. So for those wanting to break out of a 12 month contract there is your loop hole.

I can understand what you are saying, but you can still not get around the point that your data throughput is purposely limited, which as said before, common sense will dictate that puts a serious limit on the amount of data you can download, and once i hit STM (and many others have complained about this on VM ngs, letters to VM, emails sent to VM (which takes them 3 weeks to reply :rolleyes:) etc) pings went through the roof, browsing became worse than dial up and you could not class it as broadband.

£37/month does pay for the amount of bandwith needed actually, you need to rethink just how many broadband customers they have, look at the extremely cheap bandwith they use (and now the rather stupid routes to the US to save themselfs more money on bandwith), if it wasnt enough to pay for the bandwith VM would no longer be in business, they make enough money from that to pay for the bandwith and make profit.

Your right, i do use a large amount of bandwith, but im on the business package and do have a right to do so (their fair usage limit is just over 5tb/month on the business package btw), believe it or not most an awful lot of my bandwith is used for work purposes (i work from home right now and alot of my uploads can range in from 700mb-1-2gig), my ubr only has 40% utilization, but VM upgrade it often (keep putting more customers on it, alot are top tier users and everyone i know on it hits STM within an hour).

If you can look back on other threads, in theory STM works fine and i, among many others do agree with it.

But they went about implementing it so stupidly it became a joke factor, and remains so to this day.

3GB is too low, i agree with you on that, as most people do.

Demos weigh in at near 2gb just on their own, so VM is selling you a high speed product, then telling you if u bother to use it your connection is gonna be cut by 75%, not bad charging you £2/month more for the priveledge.

From what i recall, they lied to trading standards/offcom about STM as well, they told them the STM lasts 4 hours maximum per night and cannot get hit twice, and that it would be a 50% speed reduction (which i wouldnt mind, i was quite happy on 10mbit).

People cant seem to see that VM are screwing over their customers just to keep their pockets fat and shareholders happy.

I wasnt happy with the rules, it has turned into such a bad company since the name change and im suprised branson has let them tore his name apart like they have, i've started to hate the brand name so much i know longer buy anything that is virgin branded (no female jokes please :p:).

Which is why i advise people swap over to the business package, at £40/month it is quite acceptable (and has the same upload as 20mbit package, although its going upto 1.5mbit from january).

Or for them to just leave (sky dont shape/stm, nor do Be, they are the only good suppliers left).

@Darthlinux, it's not that i dont like you, you just get bored of people not telling the truth.

[xspeedyx]

the truth by u lol please provide proof for every comment you think is the truth

[PhantomTa2]

Well, Susan, I think you're doing fine with your English. I understood what you said and you can speak a "foreign" language much better than I can

[Acathla]

Well, Susan, I think you're doing fine with your English. I understood what you said and you can speak a "foreign" language much better than I can

Some would argue that English is a foreign language for Scots!

(I am Scottish btw) :)

[PhantomTa2]

That's true.....usually can't understand a damn thing you lot say, either ;) j/k

[Acathla]

RE: TraxData

Whilst I think we are coming from the same page in that we don't agree with the current measures VM have taken to 'hide' their network limitations and cost cutting exercises, I think we both agree they are not alone in he actions they take.

The unlimited argument can and has been done to death and it is one of the most ambiguous statements one can make with regards broadband. There is no such thing as unlimited. I believe the APA come from the idea that it is a common understanding that people understand the advertised definition of unlimited cannot possibly be met. Saying this, I do agree that it is wrong to advertise as such and this action should (and I believe will soon) be stopped.

I want to give VM time to fix their problems. They are aware of the issues and I would like to think that something is/will be done about it. Was the 20meg upgrade done at the wrong time? - absolutely but if it hadn't happened and the top speed offered by VM was only 10meg, you can be sure that other ISP's would have used VM as a target for advertising abuse and that we wouldn't have had the recent announcement that VM plan to focus on developing their broadband network with high investment.

I was quite happy on my steady NTL connection for the years I had it and before that the 4meg, 2meg, 1meg and 512k connections I had. I did not want the 20meg upgrade but I was forced to take it if I wished to remain on a package greater than 4meg and I was also forced into paying a higher subscription fee (albeit £2).

As for your bandwidth usage, it was really a cheap snipe at you (purely for journalistic benefits though!) so I do apologise. I am not one that argues that high bandwidth equals piracy. I can download gigabytes of data for legitimate work.

We know VM are taking steps to better improve their network and I really hope that the right people are in charge of this as if VM want to continue to be dominant in the ISP field; they need the confidence of their customers and need to listen.

[PhantomTa2]

I don't recall any comments about my bandwidth usage........:erm:

[LooieENG]

I consider myself excellent english,i come from a little country called macedonia,македонски, i wonder how many language's you can speak.

Owned

[slowcoach]

But haven't VM just stopped all network maintenance?

[mrmistoffelees]

Owned


Did you buy her from Argos ?

[eth01]

Ugh! Wasn't this topic originally called 'About the throttling' not 'Languages of the world!' lol :P

[PhantomTa2]

It was indeed, and nobody has confirmed wether the upload specific traffic management is true or not

[eth01]

But haven't VM just stopped all network maintenance?

Apparently. :o:

[xspeedyx]

Apparently. :o:

since when