View Full Version : Zapping the Cloners - how good is this?
From another forum:
looks like the partys over
Virgins attack cloners head on. New modem countermeasure encrypted configs
Across the country slowly area by area is the all new encrypted config data.
... lots of detail snipped...
Think this wont happen, ladies and gentlemen its happening right now *** areas are updating as we speak. Happened in my area last week and modem banning is there now.
enjoy the time you have until uk full rollout.
ok lets not have a we hate cloners thread again.
Its good to see ntl doing something again.
If you could provide updates from the other forums.
any more technical info you can give us without giving away how to clone :)
smeagoly1
12-11-2007, 14:54
Looks good that a company is now, seen to be openly doing something on this particular issue.
Would be of help if we knew that the information was from a VM source and not just chinese whispers. I for one hope that it's 100% true :)
TraxData
12-11-2007, 15:36
This wont remove STM though, so it means nothing to me.
Graham M
12-11-2007, 15:36
This wont remove STM though, so it means nothing to me.
*sigh*
*sigh*
I'll see your sigh and double it...:D
TraxData
12-11-2007, 15:40
*sigh*
Well STM wasnt put in place for heavy users and cloners :rolleyes:
P.S This has already been bypassed.
Can somebody PM the forum this is discussed on please?
---------- Post added at 16:41 ---------- Previous post was at 15:45 ----------
Well, its an interesting discussion over there I have to say.
I have to admit that VM has impressed me on this, they seem to have a number of different tricks up their technical sleeves ;)
Agreed, but as with anything if you really want it there means and ways around it.
Well STM wasnt put in place for heavy users and cloners :rolleyes:
P.S This has already been bypassed.
P.S This has already been bypassed.
And the new measures about to be implemented will stop that ;)
Well STM wasnt put in place for heavy users and cloners :rolleyes:
Still too many heavy users to remove stm
TraxData
12-11-2007, 17:12
And the new measures about to be implemented will stop that ;)
Still too many heavy users to remove stm
The even newer measures have already been bypassed, unfortunetly saying anymore would break the forum rules.
STM isnt about heavy users :rolleyes:
Agreed, but as with anything if you really want it there means and ways around it.
Sure, if you want it bad enough, almost anything is possible. What seems to be happening though is having a noticed effect. I think a message is being sent.
Could i be PM'd this other forums address? I'm no threat if anyone's wondering, i don't even live in the UK any more and Cable doesn't exist here.
TraxData
12-11-2007, 17:34
Could i be PM'd this other forums address? I'm no threat if anyone's wondering, i don't even live in the UK any more and Cable doesn't exist here.
You have a PM
MovedGoalPosts
12-11-2007, 17:42
Let's have no more requests for PM's please. We don't allow the promotion of obtaining services without a proper subscription on Cable Forum. Therefore, even if it is for "research purposes" only, it's not to be encouraged in any way on here.
Sorry Rob, but a full news article may well be in order if this is confirmed right?
Are there any offical figures on how many cloners or suspected cloners are out there?
MovedGoalPosts
12-11-2007, 18:12
Since VM don't officially admit there is any cloning there won't be official figures. Similarly as there is no official acknowledgment of cloning, there is no confirmation as to what Virgin Media might or might not be doing to get unsubscribed service users off their network. Indeed, I'd expect Virgin Media to keep that close to their chest and thus anywhere that is discussing stuff about this will need to keep speculating. On that basis there is nothing to base any news article on.
The even newer measures have already been bypassed, unfortunetly saying anymore would break the forum rules.
STM isnt about heavy users :rolleyes:
sorry but i am talking about the new new ;)
In my little utopia (my head) I would like to think that this apparent increase in activity on VM's part to tackle the issue is due in no small part to Mr Angry - who tirelessly promoted the problem (at least on here anyway) despite having cancelled his service. For that, I salute you sir :) Wehter the tactics employed have any effect is of little consequence, the fact they are now doing something is a remarkable change in stance and is a victory for said poster I feel.
In my little utopia (my head) I would like to think that this apparent increase in activity on VM's part to tackle the issue is due in no small part to Mr Angry - who tirelessly promoted the problem (at least on here anyway) despite having cancelled his service. For that, I salute you sir :) Wehter the tactics employed have any effect is of little consequence, the fact they are now doing something is a remarkable change in stance and is a victory for said poster I feel.
Yes, I don't think Mr Angry's discussions on the matter can go unigrnored, and I certainly don't think they have.
swapshop1
13-11-2007, 08:43
I'm not keen on the head in the sand attitude. If the news article contains only news on the problem then there shouldn't be a reason not to link it. If it contains details of how to clone then fine. But so far all that happens is a thread gets choked full of inuendo and such. Quite annoying really.
I'm into IT and communications and find networking issues facinating. I as a customer would like to know what the company is doing against illegal cloners and how the war on theft is going. I would like to know other details like, would a cloner be able to gain my packets? sniff bank details etc.
I'm not keen on the head in the sand attitude. If the news article contains only news on the problem then there shouldn't be a reason not to link it. If it contains details of how to clone then fine.
If you read the news item which has been snipped from there - its obviously from a site which 'possibly' condones 'cloning' and I for one - do not think we should be linking to any such site and if someone passes me the link, i'll be placing the URL in the filtered list, where it will remain forever.
Virgins attack cloners head on.
Ahh so that's their secret weapon :D
swapshop1
13-11-2007, 09:42
@Mick, the OP has not posted anything that is in either bias. The problem with text is that if you have a bias in mind when you read something then you read into the text with that bias. When I read the OP post, I thought that either bias applied.
"looks like the partys over" could imply that finally the free time is over, your party is finished!
"enjoy the time you have until uk full rollout" again could be aimed as a two finger salute to the coners, enjoy what you have, cos we're taking it from you!
The cloner subject instantly causes offence to mods and causes them, no matter the bias to be anti. The reality is cloning is illegal. I know how to clone, I know where to buy the kit, I've even been offered kit from an Ntl tech, but still I won't. My job is sensitive and my future career too. I will not risk a criminal record for saving a few quid. Most others take this stance too. Not all but most.
PeteTheMusicGuy
13-11-2007, 10:22
Well done VM good to see that you guys are at work on this one :)
Saneboy13
13-11-2007, 12:46
In my little utopia (my head) I would like to think that this apparent increase in activity on VM's part to tackle the issue is due in no small part to Mr Angry - who tirelessly promoted the problem (at least on here anyway) despite having cancelled his service. For that, I salute you sir :) Wehter the tactics employed have any effect is of little consequence, the fact they are now doing something is a remarkable change in stance and is a victory for said poster I feel.
I know that nothing that Mr Angry said or did or wrote or shouted about had any influance on what's happening right now.
All that needs to be said is that it looks like VM are getting things sorted out, and if it works then all the better for the customers I say
Could well be, when did [NTL] VM take any notice of the customer? ;)
@Mick, the OP has not posted anything that is in either bias. The problem with text is that if you have a bias in mind when you read something then you read into the text with that bias. When I read the OP post, I thought that either bias applied.
What I posted was a snipped version of what I found. All I did was correct a couple of the worst spelling errors.
(Missed the Virgins tho..)
Personally I pay for my software and services. The guys that produce this stuff need to eat too.
This was for information only, with no intention to justify OR condemn.
I know that nothing that Mr Angry said or did or wrote or shouted about had any influance on what's happening right now.
All that needs to be said is that it looks like VM are getting things sorted out, and if it works then all the better for the customers I say
If not direct by his actions it is still victory in the cause to which he applied himself, and since he was the only one to take such a passionate stance on the subject I will always commend him on such.
Coincidences do happen, but sometimes things are not just down to fortunate timing. Perhaps I'm cynnical, but had nobody made such a song and dance about thie situation, I find it a little far fetched to think VM would be implementing any counter measures at this time. Regardless, it is happening, and that is the main thing. May it succeed!:)
Saneboy13
13-11-2007, 19:45
If not direct by his actions it is still victory in the cause to which he applied himself, and since he was the only one to take such a passionate stance on the subject I will always commend him on such.
Coincidences do happen, but sometimes things are not just down to fortunate timing. Perhaps I'm cynnical, but had nobody made such a song and dance about thie situation, I find it a little far fetched to think VM would be implementing any counter measures at this time. Regardless, it is happening, and that is the main thing. May it succeed!:)
I did not say that it was off VM's own back that these changes were made. There was a chance encounter for a VM employee with a director and they got to discussing issues that he thought needed to be addressed.
To the credit of the director he got onto the people that needed to be contacted and he jumped all over them. Told them that this needed to be pushed through as a high priority, and hence we started to see some action taken.
If the work VM are doing gets rid of all the cloned modems that are bought off Ebay or the guy down the pub then that's a small victory.
The over-all end user benefits and a decrease in UBR saturation is what they are aiming for. I hope that they keep on top of what's started, and I do know that other processes are going to be implemented to cut down on these things happening again in the future.
slowcoach
13-11-2007, 20:37
This is a good cop-out for VM, did we not have cloners when we were on a perfect 10Meg, VM fouled up with the switch to 20Meg after a simplistic trial, the infrastructure in many parts of the country just cannot cope with the load at peak time, hell, the speed is all over the place at any time of day.
Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:09:48 GMT
Test 1: 1024K took 9123 ms = 112.2 KB/sec, approx 925 Kbps, 0.9 Mbps
Test 2: 1024K took 12820 ms = 79.9 KB/sec, approx 658 Kbps, 0.64 Mbps
Test 3: 1024K took 10923 ms = 93.7 KB/sec, approx 772 Kbps, 0.75 Mbps
Test 4: 2048K took 19890 ms = 103 KB/sec, approx 849 Kbps, 0.83 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 801 Kbps, 0.78 Mbps
Thankfully all the cloners switch their modems off come midnight. :dunce:
davedefeet
13-11-2007, 21:02
You have a PM
Gordon Brown?
I had the worst experience from this! My MAC was blacklisted because of these counter-measures, VM finally admitted it and are sending out a new modem!
I hope this war is not about defeating the Cloners 'AT ALL COSTS'!
I had the worst experience from this! My MAC was blacklisted because of these counter-measures, VM finally admitted it and are sending out a new modem!
I hope this war is not about defeating the Cloners 'AT ALL COSTS'!
Wouldn't anybody rather have a small number of legal modems get nuked, but nuke all the illegal modems in the process, a small price to pay.
Wouldn't anybody rather have a small number of legal modems get nuked, but nuke all the illegal modems in the process, a small price to pay.
I'm sure you would feel differently if you had been affected lol ;)
I'm sure you would feel differently if you had been affected lol ;)
s'long as its easy enough to get fixed (as a legit customer) I'm sure there wouldn't be many problems - this might need support to know whats going on however.
s'long as its easy enough to get fixed (as a legit customer) I'm sure there wouldn't be many problems - this might need support to know whats going on however.
The problem is it's not easily fixed. Firstly, they don't have a clue how to identify these problems without you knowing it and pointing them in the right directions so that they can escalate and go 'higher up'. Secondly, even when they have identified the issue, they have to issue a new modem which takes a couple of days. Once the modem arrives, you have to phone up to activate. In the meantime you are without internet connection which for some is vital in this day and age!
I would not complain too much had I been able to re-activate the modem by giving VM a call, but this is not the case! :(
Mr Angry
14-11-2007, 18:21
I did not say that it was off VM's own back that these changes were made. There was a chance encounter for a VM employee with a director and they got to discussing issues that he thought needed to be addressed.
To the credit of the director he got onto the people that needed to be contacted and he jumped all over them. Told them that this needed to be pushed through as a high priority, and hence we started to see some action taken.
If the work VM are doing gets rid of all the cloned modems that are bought off Ebay or the guy down the pub then that's a small victory.
The over-all end user benefits and a decrease in UBR saturation is what they are aiming for. I hope that they keep on top of what's started, and I do know that other processes are going to be implemented to cut down on these things happening again in the future.
Hi there Saneboy.
Not wishing to detract from your version of events I think it's worthwhile pointing out that a full 24 hrs before the implementation of the current measures I, a certain television production company, a certain Channel 4 "social commentator", and two top flight legal firms were made aware in advance of the tests, the demographics and the duration. You can consider this unusual sharing of information at the behest of your mysterious "director" to be coincidence should you elect to do so - or, alternatively, you can seek confirmation from those moderators on the forum who are in a position to substantiate what I have said above.
As for me, I'm just glad it happened and is happening but it was nothing short of a disgrace that it was allowed to go on for so long and, as Rob has pointed out, that VM still refuse to admit that the problem exists.
Hooray! for more "chance encounters" of the kind you describe - especially if they bring about tangible results in the face of national exposure.
davedefeet
14-11-2007, 23:09
I thought that a previous Attack ON The Clones, Cable Modem Config file stopped this happening?
When I was working at VM, just about all the Cloning stopped dead! I suppose the Cloners found another way eh?
If your Cable Modem is identified as a (possible) clone, it's Zapped and will "Run down the curtain and join the bleedin' Chior Invisible" hence you have to get a new one.
I hope you asked for (and got some) compensation Lemta?
Merry Christmas
I used to work for Virgin Media but I'm Alright Nowoooo!
Saneboy13
15-11-2007, 07:30
Hi there Saneboy.
Not wishing to detract from your version of events I think it's worthwhile pointing out that a full 24 hrs before the implementation of the current measures I, a certain television production company, a certain Channel 4 "social commentator", and two top flight legal firms were made aware in advance of the tests, the demographics and the duration. You can consider this unusual sharing of information at the behest of your mysterious "director" to be coincidence should you elect to do so - or, alternatively, you can seek confirmation from those moderators on the forum who are in a position to substantiate what I have said above.
As for me, I'm just glad it happened and is happening but it was nothing short of a disgrace that it was allowed to go on for so long and, as Rob has pointed out, that VM still refuse to admit that the problem exists.
Hooray! for more "chance encounters" of the kind you describe - especially if they bring about tangible results in the face of national exposure.
Mr Angry,
There is more to this than you claim. The trials happened a week after the chance meeting, not 24 hours later.
To be honest I don't really care when it happened, as long as it improves the service to customers.
I could go into more details, but I don't feel they would add to this discussion
I thought that a previous Attack ON The Clones, Cable Modem Config file stopped this happening?
When I was working at VM, just about all the Cloning stopped dead! I suppose the Cloners found another way eh?
If your Cable Modem is identified as a (possible) clone, it's Zapped and will "Run down the curtain and join the bleedin' Chior Invisible" hence you have to get a new one.
I hope you asked for (and got some) compensation Lemta?
Merry Christmas
I used to work for Virgin Media but I'm Alright Nowoooo!
I think they have given me some credit for loss of service but forgot to ask how much cos I was more interested in getting my service back up! I got the new modem and it's working now so maybe when I get some time I'll phone up and see if they gave me enough credit for the bother I had to go through! :D
Mr Angry
15-11-2007, 18:25
Mr Angry,
There is more to this than you claim. The trials happened a week after the chance meeting, not 24 hours later.
To be honest I don't really care when it happened, as long as it improves the service to customers.
I could go into more details, but I don't feel they would add to this discussion
Hi again Saneboy,
I'm not suggesting that there isn't more to this than I claim, quite the opposite actually, there's more to this than I'm prepared to divulge.
With regards to the 24hrs claim let me elaborate. Myself and those professionals referenced above were advised / assured 24hrs in advance of the tests that they would be happening. I'm sure the bulk of people reading this will draw their own conclusions as to why VM may have thought it prudent to do so.
Suffice to say that the prospect of an expose not confined to the normal platitudes and almost instantly forgettable moaning of say, "Angry from Surrey" on Watchdog was enough to provoke some action on their part. Like yourself I'm glad it happened and hope that more robust measures are rolled out in the very near future (what is the lifespan of broadcast media?).
Many thanks for the PM and the insight from your perspective - I'll try to respond later.
Cheers.
Saneboy13
15-11-2007, 20:14
Hi again Saneboy,
I'm not suggesting that there isn't more to this than I claim, quite the opposite actually, there's more to this than I'm prepared to divulge.
With regards to the 24hrs claim let me elaborate. Myself and those professionals referenced above were advised / assured 24hrs in advance of the tests that they would be happening. I'm sure the bulk of people reading this will draw their own conclusions as to why VM may have thought it prudent to do so.
Suffice to say that the prospect of an expose not confined to the normal platitudes and almost instantly forgettable moaning of say, "Angry from Surrey" on Watchdog was enough to provoke some action on their part. Like yourself I'm glad it happened and hope that more robust measures are rolled out in the very near future (what is the lifespan of broadcast media?).
Many thanks for the PM and the insight from your perspective - I'll try to respond later.
Cheers.
Mr Angry,
My mistake, I mis-read your post.
Don't worry about responding to the PM, as I know how hard you have pushed the issue I just wanted to let you know that it hadn't fallen on deaf ears.
There were other things I wanted to tell you in the PM, about what other actions are going to be implemented, but I thought it was a big enough read as is.
If you do want to ask anything else, then please do feel free to send me your questions and I will be open and honest with my replies
so has anything else happened lately.
having read the forums at various sites i still see plenty of people sitting around with loads of modems connected at 20meg ..
sure the latest thing put a lot off but the mods to get it working again are getting easier to do/find ..
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