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DaveMid
23-09-2007, 22:21
Hey,

I only got cable a couple of months ago since moving to a cable area.

I've had no problems up until last night when I was playing an online game and my ping time seemed 'shaky'. I rebooted the modem and when I reconnected to the server my ping time was at 90ms! It stayed like this until around 11pm when it finally settled.

Today I go to play again and find that my ping time to the server is now 200ms! It only seems to be like this to a select few German servers and it's not their error because nobody else is having this problem.

I've ran trace routes and it seems to be a problem at Tiscali.net, though I don't know why I'm being routed via them, my friend is also on this service (doesn't live in same city) and isn't routed via them.

When I rang the stupid 25p/min line the support guy was quite useless, he tried to blame server, the fact it was over seas and even my pc and ports setup. The game is older now and isn't heavy on the system and on top of that my pc system is very good as it's custom built for what its used for.


Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>tracert k-play.de

Tracing route to k-play.de [81.3.59.4]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 6 ms 13 ms 9 ms 10.124.64.1
2 13 ms 12 ms 11 ms 62-31-64-40.cable.ubr06.brad.blueyonder.co.uk [6
2.31.64.40]
3 20 ms 21 ms 26 ms pc-62-30-251-218-ro.blueyonder.co.uk [62.30.251.
218]
4 20 ms 20 ms 22 ms 194.117.136.213
5 26 ms 14 ms 29 ms 194.117.136.169
6 28 ms 22 ms 21 ms 194.117.136.166
7 190 ms 200 ms 195 ms ge-2-0-7.lon11.ip.tiscali.net [213.200.78.37]
8 198 ms 188 ms 181 ms so-1-0-0.dus11.ip.tiscali.net [213.200.82.2]
9 186 ms 189 ms 186 ms tiscalide-gw.ip.tiscali.net [213.200.65.242]
10 181 ms 178 ms 178 ms ae0.core2.f.ip.nacamar.net [62.27.95.42]
11 196 ms 196 ms 198 ms ge-1-2.swi01.r206.f.ip.nacamar.net [62.27.92.137
]
12 199 ms 190 ms 192 ms kate.krawall.de [81.3.59.4]

Trace complete.

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>

This is the trace route to the IP, feel free to trace it yourself and post your route..

No idea why I've posted this, I'm just annoyed and I don't really think there is going to be a solution. I'm guessing there's a problem at the tiscali.net server..?

Dave

Mick Fisher
23-09-2007, 22:58
VM's routing solutions have been atrocious for years. Lately they seem to have gotten even worse than normal.

I've not gamed for years now but back in the day, when 512kb/s was the top speed :), I used to drive a little GPL online. I remember that the guys from the US had no great problems using a UK based server but if a US server was in use then the chances were Ntl users either couldn't connect at all, lagged so much play was impossible or got discoed when they were leading the race. GRRRRRR!!!!!! :)

Seems not much has changed over the years. The UK ADSL guys (BT mostly) did have problems sometimes but seemingly not to the extent that the cable users had.

Sirius
23-09-2007, 23:11
Hey,

I only got cable a couple of months ago since moving to a cable area.

I've had no problems up until last night when I was playing an online game and my ping time seemed 'shaky'. I rebooted the modem and when I reconnected to the server my ping time was at 90ms! It stayed like this until around 11pm when it finally settled.

Today I go to play again and find that my ping time to the server is now 200ms! It only seems to be like this to a select few German servers and it's not their error because nobody else is having this problem.

I've ran trace routes and it seems to be a problem at Tiscali.net, though I don't know why I'm being routed via them, my friend is also on this service (doesn't live in same city) and isn't routed via them.

When I rang the stupid 25p/min line the support guy was quite useless, he tried to blame server, the fact it was over seas and even my pc and ports setup. The game is older now and isn't heavy on the system and on top of that my pc system is very good as it's custom built for what its used for.


Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>tracert k-play.de

Tracing route to k-play.de [81.3.59.4]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 6 ms 13 ms 9 ms 10.124.64.1
2 13 ms 12 ms 11 ms 62-31-64-40.cable.ubr06.brad.blueyonder.co.uk [6
2.31.64.40]
3 20 ms 21 ms 26 ms pc-62-30-251-218-ro.blueyonder.co.uk [62.30.251.
218]
4 20 ms 20 ms 22 ms 194.117.136.213
5 26 ms 14 ms 29 ms 194.117.136.169
6 28 ms 22 ms 21 ms 194.117.136.166
7 190 ms 200 ms 195 ms ge-2-0-7.lon11.ip.tiscali.net [213.200.78.37]
8 198 ms 188 ms 181 ms so-1-0-0.dus11.ip.tiscali.net [213.200.82.2]
9 186 ms 189 ms 186 ms tiscalide-gw.ip.tiscali.net [213.200.65.242]
10 181 ms 178 ms 178 ms ae0.core2.f.ip.nacamar.net [62.27.95.42]
11 196 ms 196 ms 198 ms ge-1-2.swi01.r206.f.ip.nacamar.net [62.27.92.137
]
12 199 ms 190 ms 192 ms kate.krawall.de [81.3.59.4]

Trace complete.

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>

This is the trace route to the IP, feel free to trace it yourself and post your route..

No idea why I've posted this, I'm just annoyed and I don't really think there is going to be a solution. I'm guessing there's a problem at the tiscali.net server..?

Dave

Here you go

Tracing route to kate.krawall.de [81.3.59.4]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 68 ms 9 ms 18 ms 10.235.84.1
3 9 ms 19 ms 10 ms bagu-t2cam1-b-v121.inet.ntl.com [80.5.162.213]
4 36 ms 11 ms 22 ms bagu-t2core-b-ge-wan61.inet.ntl.com [195.182.175
.25]
5 21 ms 11 ms 11 ms lee-bb-b-so-710-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.174.73]

6 16 ms 16 ms 23 ms nth-bb-a-so-600-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.175.133]

7 29 ms 54 ms 39 ms fran-ic-1-so-700-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.81]

8 61 ms 124 ms 51 ms decix02.f.ip.nacamar.net [80.81.193.29]
9 48 ms 55 ms 59 ms ge-1-1.swi01.r206.f.ip.nacamar.net [62.27.92.166
]
10 77 ms 50 ms 30 ms kate.krawall.de [81.3.59.4]

Trace complete.

BloodyL
24-09-2007, 04:59
Tracing route to k-play.de [81.3.59.4]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms router [XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX]
2 10 ms 6 ms 8 ms 10.137.XXX.XXX
3 8 ms 6 ms 7 ms bagu-t2cam1-a-v111.inet.ntl.com [80.5.162.45]
4 9 ms 9 ms 23 ms bagu-t2core-a-ge-wan64.inet.ntl.com [195.182.175.13]
5 9 ms 10 ms 10 ms man-bb-a-so-700-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.188.25]
6 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms lee-bb-b-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.194]
7 13 ms 13 ms 14 ms nth-bb-a-so-600-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.175.133]
8 30 ms 41 ms 28 ms fran-ic-1-so-700-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.81]
9 29 ms 46 ms 35 ms decix02.f.ip.nacamar.net [80.81.193.29]
10 29 ms 30 ms 28 ms ge-1-1.swi01.r206.f.ip.nacamar.net [62.27.92.166]
11 28 ms 29 ms 30 ms kate.krawall.de [81.3.59.4]

Trace complete.

Tracing route to kate.krawall.de [81.3.59.4]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms router [XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX]
2 5 ms 5 ms 8 ms 10.137.XXX.XXX
3 8 ms 9 ms 8 ms bagu-t2cam1-a-v111.inet.ntl.com [80.5.162.45]
4 13 ms 9 ms 31 ms bagu-t2core-a-ge-wan64.inet.ntl.com [195.182.175.13]
5 11 ms 8 ms 9 ms man-bb-a-so-700-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.188.25]
6 13 ms 9 ms 10 ms lee-bb-b-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.194]
7 100 ms 110 ms 14 ms nth-bb-a-so-600-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.175.133]
8 27 ms 29 ms 31 ms fran-ic-1-so-700-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.81]
9 29 ms 27 ms 31 ms decix02.f.ip.nacamar.net [80.81.193.29]
10 31 ms 29 ms 28 ms ge-1-1.swi01.r206.f.ip.nacamar.net [62.27.92.166]
11 34 ms 28 ms 31 ms kate.krawall.de [81.3.59.4]

Trace complete.

Florence
24-09-2007, 05:30
This is mine from Manchester.

tracert k-play.de

Tracing route to k-play.de [81.3.59.4]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms WRT54GS [192.168.1.1]
2 34 ms 19 ms 9 ms 10.252.24.1
3 7 ms 7 ms 9 ms oldh-t2cam1-b-v129.inet.ntl.com [80.5.165.109]
4 29 ms 8 ms 23 ms 62.252.192.185
5 20 ms 22 ms 13 ms man-bb-b-so-020-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.242.245]

6 10 ms 12 ms 11 ms lee-bb-a-so-200-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.175.141]

7 10 ms 10 ms 18 ms lee-bb-b-ge-000-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.187.186]

8 14 ms 13 ms 14 ms nth-bb-a-so-600-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.175.133]

9 27 ms 40 ms 30 ms fran-ic-1-so-700-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.81]

10 28 ms 35 ms 29 ms decix02.f.ip.nacamar.net [80.81.193.29]
11 30 ms 31 ms 28 ms ge-1-2.swi01.r206.f.ip.nacamar.net [62.27.92.137
]
12 30 ms 28 ms 28 ms kate.krawall.de [81.3.59.4]

Trace complete.

C:\Documents and Settings\Florence>

Druchii
24-09-2007, 07:18
C:\Documents and Settings\4dm1n1strat0r>tracert k-play.de

Tracing route to k-play.de [81.3.59.4]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 68 ms 99 ms 99 ms dsldevice.lan [10.0.0.1]
2 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 1.80-203-47.nextgentel.com
3 12 ms 11 ms 12 ms 217-13-7-66.dd.nextgentel.com [217.13.7.66]
4 11 ms 11 ms 12 ms 217-13-0-81.dd.nextgentel.com [217.13.0.81]
5 12 ms 11 ms 11 ms 217-13-0-6.dd.nextgentel.com [217.13.0.6]
6 12 ms * * 182.84-48-4.nextgentel.com [84.48.4.182]
7 12 ms 11 ms 11 ms 67.17.193.49
8 19 ms 19 ms 19 ms pos2-0-0-10G.ar1.ARN3.gblx.net [67.17.106.86]
9 20 ms 20 ms 19 ms ge-2-0-9.stk30.ip.tiscali.net [213.200.72.53]
10 31 ms 31 ms 32 ms so-1-0-0.ham10.ip.tiscali.net [213.200.81.209]
11 32 ms 32 ms 32 ms so-4-0-0.core0.hh.tiscali.DE [213.200.65.174]
12 41 ms 41 ms 42 ms ae0.core2.f.ip.nacamar.net [62.27.95.42]
13 42 ms 41 ms 41 ms ge-1-2.swi01.r206.f.ip.nacamar.net [62.27.92.137
]
14 41 ms 40 ms 40 ms kate.krawall.de [81.3.59.4]

Trace complete.

Not just the UK who have problems, Norway does too, 40ms, when virtually no one is up isn't great...

Hugh
24-09-2007, 09:20
Tracing route to k-play.de [81.3.59.4] over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 4 ms 1 ms 1 ms *******.******* [***.***.***.***]
2 10 ms 8 ms 7 ms 1**.***.***.*
3 10 ms 9 ms 10 ms leed-t2cam1-b-ge911.inet.ntl.com [80.0.55.25]
4 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms host80-0-50-146.no-dns-yet.ntli.net [80.0.50.146]
5 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms lee-bb-b-so-020-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.175.69]
6 14 ms 12 ms 46 ms nth-bb-a-so-600-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.175.133]
7 30 ms 29 ms 28 ms fran-ic-1-so-700-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.81]
8 28 ms 29 ms 29 ms decix02.f.ip.nacamar.net [80.81.193.29]
9 29 ms 28 ms 27 ms ge-1-2.swi01.r206.f.ip.nacamar.net [62.27.92.137]
10 29 ms 28 ms 27 ms kate.krawall.de [81.3.59.4]
Trace complete.

bonzoe
24-09-2007, 19:04
Does VM have any control of the routers on the net?

Mr.X
24-09-2007, 19:20
VM's routing solutions have been atrocious for years. Lately they seem to have gotten even worse than normal.

I've not gamed for years now but back in the day, when 512kb/s was the top speed :), I used to drive a little GPL online. I remember that the guys from the US had no great problems using a UK based server but if a US server was in use then the chances were Ntl users either couldn't connect at all, lagged so much play was impossible or got discoed when they were leading the race. GRRRRRR!!!!!! :)

Seems not much has changed over the years. The UK ADSL guys (BT mostly) did have problems sometimes but seemingly not to the extent that the cable users had.

GPL the best racing sim ever. I used to play that on a 56k modem data compression turned of etc. Now that brings back a few memory's. :)

dev
24-09-2007, 19:45
Does VM have any control of the routers on the net?

only to the point it leaves VMs network

however, if VM route traffic to ISP A and then they route it round the world several times before going to the destination, VM can of course disable the route to ISP A and go to ISP B instead (assuming a peering agreement)

popper
24-09-2007, 21:29
the peering and speed does seem to be all over the place lately, normally its reasonable for me on the baguley bit, but even the VM ftp servers are again slower then they used to be..., and this afternoon for instance i was getting GoboLinux from these ftp/html urls
http://www.gobolinux.org/index.php?page=downloads
and by far the fastest connection was the poland FTP of all places, at around 700kByte ,every single other one was around the 50 to 170kByte/s , even a single seed on torrent was slightly faster,madness.

ftp://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/pub/Linux/dist/gobolinux/iso/GoboLinux-013-i686.iso

DaveMid
25-09-2007, 01:55
Hey guys, thanks for the replies.

I've dug a little deeper and found out that during peak hours my ping to k-play.de is bad from my pc, while the ping from my laptop is solid 35-40ms.

This is a rather odd situation because:

1. If my pc was the problem, then my ping should be bad all day not just during peak hours and it should be poor to all servers not just a select few.

2. If the server was having problems, all users from around europe would be having problems, which they are not. Likewise, if it was a server side problem, my laptop would ping it badly too.

3. If I set up a home network and connect PC->Laptop->Modem the ping from my pc and laptop are fine. I'm aware that the pc is sharing the laptop's connection here but it's more to just point out that the ethernet connection is fine.

I've tried ringing Virgin about this to check if maybe it was some kind of IP registering of my pc and some sort of capping, the tech support guy checked and said that I'm not being capped. He had no idea why I was having this problem and basically Virgin can't/won't accept that the error is their side while the laptop isn't suffering any problems.

All in all, it's a complete mystery....

dev
25-09-2007, 03:41
next time its high on your desktop and low on your laptop, do a trace route from both desktop and laptop to the server and compare the routes they take and where the pings increase.

just to check, are you connecting through a router? if not, does the laptop get an IP in a different subnet to the desktop? it could be they are getting different IPs from different subnets, and so getting routed differently. if that turns out to be the case, a quick and dirty solution would be to clone the mac of your laptop to your desktop which would get you the same IP and hopefully the same route to the server :)

Sirius
25-09-2007, 07:53
next time its high on your desktop and low on your laptop, do a trace route from both desktop and laptop to the server and compare the routes they take and where the pings increase.

just to check, are you connecting through a router? if not, does the laptop get an IP in a different subnet to the desktop? it could be they are getting different IPs from different subnets, and so getting routed differently. if that turns out to be the case, a quick and dirty solution would be to clone the mac of your laptop to your desktop which would get you the same IP and hopefully the same route to the server :)

Or another reason could be this.

Is the laptop a wireless enabled laptop and could you in fact be using a connection off your neighbours wireless router

DaveMid
25-09-2007, 14:51
Yea it's wireless enabled but it's definitely not connecting to a neighbours wireless connection. I know this because;
1. There is only 1 connection that isn't secure and it's very very slow.
2. To connect via the wireless you need to open the intel wireless software. It's definitely connecting via the modem.
3. I have been in network connections when using the laptop and while setting up the home network and I can visibly see that it's connected as a LAN to the modem.

I thought about trying the IP cloning, I'll give it a bash tonight, don't know how this will work with VM having dynamic IP's ?

---------- Post added at 13:51 ---------- Previous post was at 13:48 ----------

next time its high on your desktop and low on your laptop, do a trace route from both desktop and laptop to the server and compare the routes they take and where the pings increase.

just to check, are you connecting through a router? if not, does the laptop get an IP in a different subnet to the desktop? it could be they are getting different IPs from different subnets, and so getting routed differently. if that turns out to be the case, a quick and dirty solution would be to clone the mac of your laptop to your desktop which would get you the same IP and hopefully the same route to the server :)

They are getting routed exactly the same, only difference is that the laptop doesn't go sky high when it hits the tiscali.net part of the trace..

DaveMid
28-09-2007, 18:26
I tried copying the IP/DNS info from laptop. The pc connected fine to the modem without the old "limited connectivity" but I was unable to browse the internet, connect to msn etc.

I still don't understand why the laptop is pinging fine throughout the day (even during peak) while my PC gets it really bad. I'm going to buy a router soon and I hope that having it as the default gateway, instead of the laptop, might help.

I'm tied into a 12month contract and it's an awful service. My friend, who lives in the same city as me, had cable with blueyonder until recently, he moved house and decided to get Bethere. Now he has as good ping as me to UK and better ping all over Europe. It seems to me that VM are keeping ping time within the country good so that they can blame distance to and quality of servers outside the UK.

I had a great deal of difficulty with ping time on BT ADSL, no idea why I went with them, but after 2months of complaint letters and emails I was released from my contract and refunded. With VM however, they have managed to make their service rubbish in only certain areas, meaning they can duck and hide from the blame.

jaycee
29-09-2007, 09:06
If the ping from your laptop is ok but not from your main PC, this is absolutely nothing to do with VM whatsoever.

I am not certain whether you're using a router here or not. You mention using wireless, so I guess you are. How is your main PC connected?

PC/Laptop will NOT affect the route your traffic takes through outside routers. This is up to individual peering nodes. Usually, if you are being routed differently, it is because a router at that point has decided the usual route is unreliable or under heavy load, and switches to an alternate.

Please also note, not all VM customers are equal - the systems are still seperate as they were before the merger of NTL, Telewest and Virgin.net, so if your mate is in an ex-NTL area, he will get a different route than you.

ECW_Original
01-10-2007, 10:03
I tried copying the IP/DNS info from laptop. The pc connected fine to the modem without the old "limited connectivity" but I was unable to browse the internet, connect to msn etc..

I am not surprised you cannot access websites or anything, on your desktop pc, set it up for automatically obtain an IP address & DNS, this should work!:)