View Full Version : So... unacceptable service. what steps do we take to cancel...
I'm a currently receiving an unacceptable level of service from VM. Given all possible routes of improvement have been exausted, surely i am entitled to withdraw payment because virgin are not fulfilling their part of the deal. this is obvious. I am entitled to expect a certain level of service for my money. My thoughts on the next step are making video captures and any possible records of the level of service over a period of a couple of weeks. Then writing a letter to vm informing them of my final intention to cancel (this is after a previous letter of complaint and request for improved level of service of course). But thats just my idea. What are your opinions on the final course of action?
Mick Fisher
21-09-2007, 00:37
Firstly do not cancel your DD. This will immediately put you at a disadvantage in any negotiation you might enter with VM, to say nothing of putting your credit rating at risk.
I think your next step should be to contact Retentions (AKA. Cancellations) to discuss your problems.
Further steps should be decided pending the results of those discussions.
Keep your cool and Good luck :)
What aspect of your service is unacceptable (your post is a little light on details regarding this)?
Firstly do not cancel your DD. This will immediately put you at a disadvantage in any negotiation you might enter with VM, to say nothing of putting your credit rating at risk.
I think your next step should be to contact Retentions (AKA. Cancellations) to discuss your problems.
Further steps should be decided pending the results of those discussions.
Keep your cool and Good luck :)
erm, yes, i was referring to proceedings after unsuccessful support from VM.
---------- Post added at 01:04 ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 ----------
What aspect of your service is unacceptable (your post is a little light on details regarding this)?
intermittent speed for download and browsing.
intermittent speed for download and browsing.
surely on a shared service you don't expect the advertised speed 24/7?
surely on a shared service you don't expect the advertised speed 24/7?
had that statement been in the advertising or the contract then no. i would'nt.
i 'm amused when people come out with statements like that in support of broadband companies who advertise their products at a certain spec. what is essentially a policy of lying(or putting it gentler, to not inform).
how does one judge if one is being unjustly abused by a company supplying an unacceptable service or just merely maligned by a company supplying a just below average service in the apparency of an arbitrary and ghostly specter of such a comment as your quote above?
had that statement been in the advertising or the contract then no. i would'nt.
i 'm amused when people come out with statements like that in support of broadband companies who advertise their products at a certain spec. what is essentially a policy of lying(or putting it gentler, to not inform).
how does one judge if one is being unjustly abused by a company supplying an unacceptable service or just merely maligned by a company supplying a just below average service in the apparency of an arbitrary and ghostly specter of such a comment as your quote above?
If you are unhappy with the service (or lack of) supplied, ring retentions (as stated by a previous poster) to try and sort it out, or as a final resort, cancel.
I am assuming (but I try not to) that you have done all the standard fault investigation (apologies if you have already done these steps, but it never hurts to ask, imho) -
a) Spyware search
b) Anti-virus
c) Firewall checking (some firewalls are resource hogs, and can also slow down internet traffic)
d) Checked resource usage on your PC (does it have enough memory for what you're trying to run)
d) Taken router (if appropriate) out of the link
etc, etc, as stated on many other threads on this forum
You don't state what BB package you are on, but there are some handy hints in this thread (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33621243-optimizing-your-20mb-service-get-what.html) if you are on 20Mb.
btw, what made you think VM were speaking ill of you - (You questioned above how would you judge that they were maligning you)?
thanks for your reply. as i have stated above this thread i actually meant for the purposes of what to do after all that you have described has been done. i pay for what i thought was going to be 4mbit package. internet only. my issue was, that they would pursue me through court or letters of harrassment of debt collectors if i was to cancel my direct debit having only had 4 months of the 12 month contract.
What sort of speeds are you getting?
from 3pm to this morning i was getting unstable speeds from 2 mbit to 0.9 mbit, nothing to do with traffic management. browsing was terrible. its all different regular kinds of speeds and drop outs really that i find to be an unacceptable service.
thanks for your reply. as i have stated above this thread i actually meant for the purposes of what to do after all that you have described has been done. i pay for what i thought was going to be 4mbit package. internet only. my issue was, that they would pursue me through court or letters of harrassment of debt collectors if i was to cancel my direct debit having only had 4 months of the 12 month contract.
Yes they would, and your credit rating would be affected adversely.
erm, yes, i was referring to proceedings after unsuccessful support from VM.
intermittent speed for download and browsing.
So have you had unsuccessful support, or are you assuming you are going to? Looking at this thread and the other thread you started, neither states the duration of the problem or if you have contacted VM.
btw, you haven't stated if you have done the things I (and others) suggested - if you haven't, it may be in your best interest to do so, to show that you have taken reasonable steps to ensure the issue is not at your side of the link.
Sorry if you have already mentioned this but are you connected via wireless?
had that statement been in the advertising or the contract then no. i would'nt.
i 'm amused when people come out with statements like that in support of broadband companies who advertise their products at a certain spec. what is essentially a policy of lying(or putting it gentler, to not inform).
i'm amused that people expect 20mbit for a measly £37/month, no ISP anywhere in the world has enough capacity for the majority of their customers. the advertised speed is the maximum you'll see, not the minimum.
Let's not turn this thread into another "up to" or "I'm being ripped off" thread, please.
The OP's issue (I believe) is that his speeds fluctuate, often leading to 30-40 seconds to load a web-page; that has nothing to do with "up to" (imho).
Let's not turn this thread into another "up to" or "I'm being ripped off" thread, please.
The OP's issue (I believe) is that his speeds fluctuate, often leading to 30-40 seconds to load a web-page; that has nothing to do with "up to" (imho).
Yes, the actual purpose of this thread is not to try and isolate any problem that might be, but to attempt to ascertain the legal right and process for a customer who does not receive adequate service they should reasonably be able to expect, giving particular attention to the point at which the customer decides to cancel payments and position himself regarding the result of the vm companies legal proceedings in demand of contract fulfillment. Provided that in said case, the vm company has not produced a satisfactory level of service having been given appropriate opportunity.
I simply wish to know my legal course of action in such an event, with respect to proving my case. Because as a consumer i have rights.
Yes, the actual purpose of this thread is not to try and isolate any problem that might be, but to attempt to ascertain the legal right and process for a customer who does not receive adequate service they should reasonably be able to expect, giving particular attention to the point at which the customer decides to cancel payments and position himself regarding the result of the vm companies legal proceedings in demand of contract fulfillment. Provided that in said case, the vm company has not produced a satisfactory level of service having been given appropriate opportunity.
I simply wish to know my legal course of action in such an event, with respect to proving my case. Because as a consumer i have rights.
so can we take it from that reply that you have not taken any steps to fix your problem ?.
so can we take it from that reply that you have not taken any steps to fix your problem ?.
so i can take it from your reply that your being pedantic. if you don't know the answer to a question, please, take it easy, kick back, and don't get involved.
---------- Post added at 19:20 ---------- Previous post was at 19:18 ----------
Sorry if you have already mentioned this but are you connected via wireless?
no wireless, just modem
I understand, but you appear to be missing out the step where you make reasonable efforts to ascertain/remedy if the problem is your side of the link - if you don't/haven't done that, you will (imho) have very little recourse in law.
After you have done that, and there is no improvement, you would probably have to gain agreement with VM to cancel the contract due to unsatisfactory service (unlikely if you have not tried to remedy the situation in any way). If you cancel your DD, your are most likely the one to suffer, due to adverse credit rating and debt collection fees. You would have to show an ongoing problem (preferably with evidence), and also show you took appropriate steps to try and remedy the problem - it wouldn't work to say "well, they didn't fix it).
On your other thread, you stated that you had got up to 10Mb speeds at one point - have you considered that this trial may be causing a temporary issue (which would not be grounds for early termination of contract, imho).
btw, will you just answer the questions
a) how long have you had a problem?
b) have you tried any of the proposed solutions?
Because, in the real world, if you don't take the initial steps, you won't have a case, so all the theorising in the world won't change that.
Nedkelly
21-09-2007, 19:37
Have you called tech support or have you had a tech out to check the levels ? :)
Mick Fisher
21-09-2007, 19:41
Have you called tech support or have you had a tech out to check the levels ? :)
I'm tempted to say "Don't rub salt into this poor guys wounds" but I won't as it's OT and not constructive. :)
Nedkelly
21-09-2007, 19:44
I know but hey they might see if there is a problem in the area with the ubr i know india cant do it but theres a slim chance a uk call centre might be able to :)
so i can take it from your reply that your being pedantic. if you don't know the answer to a question, please, take it easy, kick back, and don't get involved.
I hope you get it fixed but i have no intention of getting involved considering you arrogant attitude. ENJOY
The advice about trying everything and having an engineer out is good advice because until you do that you don't really have grounds to cancel your contract.
the reason why im asking this specific question pertaining to the event in which vm have exhausted all resources in trying to solve my problem is that i wish to be secure in the knowledge and awareness of my rights and possibly courses of action. Otherwise i will give myself a stomach ulcer trying to deal with vm in a prolonged tech support saga without knowing where its going to go ultimately.
They have the upper hand. They could give me a ****ty service and make me pay all year for something that doesnt work properly. I have considered that this is a result of the upgrade tests. im not even considering tech support at the moment because of this or untill the problem persists for a month or so. In other words im projecting. But theres nothing wrong with that. All i want to know is, in the event of what ive been describing, where does the consumer stand on being given a bum deal, im certain there are laws preventing and company from providing a unacceptable service and holding me to contract. i want to know if anyones had any experience in vm's case.
i take it though that your all at least fairly satisfied customers.
Actually, some of us have had problems - but we went through a process, and either resolved those problems or left VM.
It appears you are looking for a way to terminate your contract early, as you seem loath to provide details of any issues you may have, and seem to be trying to obfuscate with flowery language rather than answer any questions other posters have asked in order to try and help you.
If you want to leave early, leave early by reducing your package to the minimum level and pay the balance for that; we can't answer your question re "pertaining to the event in which vm have exhausted all resources in trying to solve my problem is that i wish to be secure in the knowledge and awareness of my rights and possibly courses of action" - with rights come responsibilities, as the contract between you and VM is two way; if you try all the things suggested, and VM can't fix it, I am sure VM will be be "understanding" - but they don't have to be.
You appear to be planning a funeral when you think you might be getting a cold (imho).
oh its finally clicked now has it? im not looking for a solution to any broadband problem, im looking for the answer to the question originally asked. Theres nothing wrong with asking that question.
oh its finally clicked now has it? im not looking for a solution to any broadband problem, im looking for the answer to the question originally asked. There's nothing wrong with asking that question.
I just love it when someone does not get there own way and then starts the short route to being obnoxious.
I will put it plain and simple. Stop the fancy talk and then let VM try to fix your problem if you have one at all ???????. If you don't have the decency to let them try to fix any problems you may have then i for one hope they use their contract to the full and hold you to it. FLAME away
oh its finally clicked now has it? im not looking for a solution to any broadband problem, im looking for the answer to the question originally asked. Theres nothing wrong with asking that question.
If you had used plain English, instead of (imho) dancing around the maypole, you may have got an answer quicker - instead, you obfuscated, concealed, and complicated a very simple question -
"how do I get out of my VM contract early without paying anything?"
Instead you said -
"I'm a currently receiving an unacceptable level of service from VM. Given all possible routes of improvement have been exausted, surely i am entitled to withdraw payment because virgin are not fulfilling their part of the deal. this is obvious. I am entitled to expect a certain level of service for my money. My thoughts on the next step are making video captures and any possible records of the level of service over a period of a couple of weeks. Then writing a letter to vm informing them of my final intention to cancel (this is after a previous letter of complaint and request for improved level of service of course). But thats just my idea. What are your opinions on the final course of action?"
You used 126 words when 13 would have done.:dunce:
People can only answer the questions asked, and it makes it simpler if you put the question directly - you would have saved your time (and ours).
btw, you won't get out early scot-free - you will have to pay the balance. ;) TANSTAFFL
If you had used plain English, instead of (imho) dancing around the maypole, you may have got an answer quicker - instead, you obfuscated, concealed, and complicated a very simple question -
"how do I get out of my VM contract early without paying anything?"
Instead you said -
"I'm a currently receiving an unacceptable level of service from VM. Given all possible routes of improvement have been exausted, surely i am entitled to withdraw payment because virgin are not fulfilling their part of the deal. this is obvious. I am entitled to expect a certain level of service for my money. My thoughts on the next step are making video captures and any possible records of the level of service over a period of a couple of weeks. Then writing a letter to vm informing them of my final intention to cancel (this is after a previous letter of complaint and request for improved level of service of course). But thats just my idea. What are your opinions on the final course of action?"
You used 126 words when 13 would have done.:dunce:
People can only answer the questions asked, and it makes it simpler if you put the question directly - you would have saved your time (and ours).
btw, you won't get out early scot-free - you will have to pay the balance. ;) TANSTAFFL
You have a way of putting it that leaves my stright to the point in your face replys standing :LOL:
Wild Oscar
22-09-2007, 11:07
It's funny you know, and normally I'd be the last person to suggest such a thing ... but cancelling your Direct Debit might just make VM sit up and take notice (if all else fails of course!!)
Yes, you would be breaking your contract .. yes you would (probably?) get threatening letters and yes you might get reffered to 'debt collectors' ... would that be a problem?. Personally I dont think so ... a lot of that is *smoke and mirrors* anyway ... (I got the inside track about some of these tactics years ago from a friend of mine who was a county court officer ... )
The point is you shouldn't have to jump through all these hoops to get customer satisfaction ... after all, who 'broke the contract' first ...
oh its finally clicked now has it? im not looking for a solution to any broadband problem, im looking for the answer to the question originally asked. Theres nothing wrong with asking that question.
I agree there is nothing wrong with asking the question, the problem is that as a forum we like to help people so the fact that you have a problem with your broadband starts us all off thinking "how can we help this person resolve this"
and that is why you got asked questions about what you have or haven't done to rectify it.
Anyway unless you give them (VM) fair chance to sort the problem out for you I don't think you have a leg to stand on when it comes to getting out of your contract early.
If you had used plain English, instead of (imho) dancing around the maypole, you may have got an answer quicker - instead, you obfuscated, concealed, and complicated a very simple question -
"how do I get out of my VM contract early without paying anything?"
Instead you said -
"I'm a currently receiving an unacceptable level of service from VM. Given all possible routes of improvement have been exausted, surely i am entitled to withdraw payment because virgin are not fulfilling their part of the deal. this is obvious. I am entitled to expect a certain level of service for my money. My thoughts on the next step are making video captures and any possible records of the level of service over a period of a couple of weeks. Then writing a letter to vm informing them of my final intention to cancel (this is after a previous letter of complaint and request for improved level of service of course). But thats just my idea. What are your opinions on the final course of action?"
You used 126 words when 13 would have done.:dunce:
People can only answer the questions asked, and it makes it simpler if you put the question directly - you would have saved your time (and ours).
btw, you won't get out early scot-free - you will have to pay the balance. ;) TANSTAFFL
Your plain English question though leaves out quite a lot of information and gives a completely different impression so therefore its not quite the same question. From someone like you though id expect the same useless assistance either way. but in the interest of human-kindness, thank you all the same.
---------- Post added at 17:04 ---------- Previous post was at 16:55 ----------
It's funny you know, and normally I'd be the last person to suggest such a thing ... but cancelling your Direct Debit might just make VM sit up and take notice (if all else fails of course!!)
Yes, you would be breaking your contract .. yes you would (probably?) get threatening letters and yes you might get reffered to 'debt collectors' ... would that be a problem?. Personally I dont think so ... a lot of that is *smoke and mirrors* anyway ... (I got the inside track about some of these tactics years ago from a friend of mine who was a county court officer ... )
The point is you shouldn't have to jump through all these hoops to get customer satisfaction ... after all, who 'broke the contract' first ...
Thank you. Some people don't seem to understand that VM don't have you crushed under their giant foot just because you signed a contract. As consumers we have rights.
Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 (amended by Supply of Goods and Services Act 1994)
This states that work covered by the contract - which exists as soon as you ask someone to carry out some work for you, such as plumbing, dry cleaning, or building, must be carried out with reasonable skill and care, within a reasonable time, and for a reasonable price (if that's not stated) - but what is reasonable is not defined by law.
If something goes wrong as a result of the work done - ask the contractor to put the work right, and if s/he won't, you are legally entitled to employ another contractor to rectify the problem and claim the costs from the original contractor.
Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 (and Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations 1994)
If terms in pre-printed contracts are unreasonable the Office of Fair Trading can make the company change the contract. The regulations apply only to standard (pre-printed) contracts.''
I was hoping that someone would come in with some insight as to vm's recourse in these situations as they are unlikely to want to let anyone go, but equally unlikey to try and go through a court to scrutinize there contract and have it altered. Just like the banks with their service charges.
homealone
22-09-2007, 17:22
As you have not defined exactly what you mean by 'unacceptable' apart from your service being 'intermittent', we have no way of determining whether your problem falls within the natural variation expected from a contended service.
You are expecting us to support your opinion of what is, or is not acceptable, without defining the scope of that opinion.
When you can quantify the problem, including substantiating how you have reached the conclusions you have reached, people may be able to help more.
Unfortunately, up till now in this thread, you seem more inclined to insult people, than provide the information which might allay any potential misunderstanding of your motives?
As you have not defined exactly what you mean by 'unacceptable' apart from your service being 'intermittent', we have no way of determining whether your problem falls within the natural variation expected from a contended service.
You are expecting us to support your opinion of what is, or is not acceptable, without defining the scope of that opinion.
erm, no m8, stick to the original question.
homealone
22-09-2007, 17:41
erm, no m8, stick to the original question.
The original question implies we agree with your opinion of 'unacceptable', without it being defined.
Until that issue is addressed, I, for one, won't be drawn on what is appropriate as your next course of action, as I may not agree with your opinion?
Mr Angry
22-09-2007, 17:51
Your plain English question though leaves out quite a lot of information and gives a completely different impression so therefore its not quite the same question. From someone like you though id expect the same useless assistance either way. but in the interest of human-kindness, thank you all the same.
---------- Post added at 17:04 ---------- Previous post was at 16:55 ----------
Thank you. Some people don't seem to understand that VM don't have you crushed under their giant foot just because you signed a contract. As consumers we have rights.
Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 (amended by Supply of Goods and Services Act 1994)
This states that work covered by the contract - which exists as soon as you ask someone to carry out some work for you, such as plumbing, dry cleaning, or building, must be carried out with reasonable skill and care, within a reasonable time, and for a reasonable price (if that's not stated) - but what is reasonable is not defined by law.
If something goes wrong as a result of the work done - ask the contractor to put the work right, and if s/he won't, you are legally entitled to employ another contractor to rectify the problem and claim the costs from the original contractor.
Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 (and Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations 1994)
If terms in pre-printed contracts are unreasonable the Office of Fair Trading can make the company change the contract. The regulations apply only to standard (pre-printed) contracts.''
I was hoping that someone would come in with some insight as to vm's recourse in these situations as they are unlikely to want to let anyone go, but equally unlikey to try and go through a court to scrutinize there contract and have it altered. Just like the banks with their service charges.
Do yourself a favour and use the search function.
riginally Posted by Trybrow View Post
From someone like you though id expect the same useless assistance either way. but in the interest of human-kindness, thank you all the same.
Do yourself a favour wind your neck in and stop having a go at users on this forum. If you want the answer to that question then use your fancy talk and try to take on VM, Just let us know just how far you got :LOL:
It's funny you know, and normally I'd be the last person to suggest such a thing ... but cancelling your Direct Debit might just make VM sit up and take notice (if all else fails of course!!)
Yes, you would be breaking your contract .. yes you would (probably?) get threatening letters and yes you might get reffered to 'debt collectors' ... would that be a problem?. Personally I dont think so ... a lot of that is *smoke and mirrors* anyway ... (I got the inside track about some of these tactics years ago from a friend of mine who was a county court officer ... )
The point is you shouldn't have to jump through all these hoops to get customer satisfaction ... after all, who 'broke the contract' first ...
He'd be a braver man than me if he did that - I have actually worked in Financial, Credit Control/Checking, and Billing systems since the 80's; the first thing that happens when his DD bounces is a notification is sent to Experian(and the other Credit Checking companies), and if his bill is overdue another notification is sent (and so on ad nauseam). If he then apply for any form of credit or loan, these notifications count against him, causing either a higher rate of interest or rejection.
This is not smoke and mirrors, this is modern Credit Checking systems - how they work is that for the company offering credit to reference people on Credit Checking company's systems (as well paying them every time you credit check a person), the company must be willing to share their customers credit worthiness information.
If he then don't pay (after a period of time), it gets passed to a debt collection company, which puts further charges on the debt.
Anyhoo, his choice.
Trybrow please read post 31
Your plain English question though leaves out quite a lot of information and gives a completely different impression so therefore its not quite the same question. From someone like you though id expect the same useless assistance either way. but in the interest of human-kindness, thank you all the same.... snippety snip snip.
To reply to you in your own verbose overcomplicated locquaciousness, it may accentuate any potential possibility of agreeable outcome in your ill-defined quest for fiscal outlay reduction for an premature termination of your services agreement with VirginMedia if you minimised the juxtaposition of your frontal lobes with your posterior, and extracted your cranium from your fundament. ;)
photodude
22-09-2007, 22:38
I've had p*ss poor service at times, but things are looking up. Management had to do my refunds, as they were so big (£183.25 for last 3 months alone, and that wasn't for total loss of services, just poor BB connection and intermittent TV service). So I got more than the service I paid for, as my 20MB service has cost me next to nawt since Feb 07.
This thread has now made me loose the will to live, with all the legal this and laws that. Just phone up, be nice, and get some money back. Or phone up, say thanks but it's been rubbish, and then cancel due to lack of service. If they say no you can't, give them your legal stuff and see what happens:D
I'm off for another beer :beer::sleeping:
I've had p*ss poor service at times, but things are looking up. Management had to do my refunds, as they were so big (£183.25 for last 3 months alone, and that wasn't for total loss of services, just poor BB connection and intermittent TV service). So I got more than the service I paid for, as my 20MB service has cost me next to nawt since Feb 07.
This thread has now made me loose the will to live, with all the legal this and laws that. Just phone up, be nice, and get some money back. Or phone up, say thanks but it's been rubbish, and then cancel due to lack of service. If they say no you can't, give them your legal stuff and see what happens:D
I'm off for another beer :beer::sleeping:
top tip!!!;)
To reply to you in your own verbose overcomplicated locquaciousness, it may accentuate any potential possibility of agreeable outcome in your ill-defined quest for fiscal outlay reduction for an premature termination of your services agreement with VirginMedia if you minimised the juxtaposition of your frontal lobes with your posterior, and extracted your cranium from your fundament. ;)
Spot on that man :tu:
---------- Post added at 23:07 ---------- Previous post was at 23:06 ----------
If he then don't pay (after a period of time), it gets passed to a debt collection company, which puts further charges on the debt.
Anyhoo, his choice.
Does that mean we get to see him in an episode of the Bailiffs :LOL:
Now i would sign up to Sky to see that :LOL:
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