Unsociable hours

[greencreeper]

In the context of employment and shifts, do unsociable hours exist anymore, or are they a relic from the days of the Unions?

What about remuneration for such shifts - is extra pay justified, and how much extra?

[Wicked_and_Crazy]

I know people who work shifts and they get a night premium of a 1/3

[jellybaby]

My wifes a nurse and she still gets paid unsociable hours.

[greencreeper]

I've been saying that it's a hang-over from the 70s and the Unions - dodgy meetings in pubs, over lager and fags. A shift is a shift these days - doesn't matter when it is. Interesting that the concept still exists.

[Wicked_and_Crazy]

you could still be right, the NHS and manufacturing are not exactly up to date ;)

[Angua]

Without the extra money for a night shift most people wouldn't risk the associated health problems night shift workers are prone to, nor put up with the antisocialness of nights!

[greencreeper]

Even with the extra money, my lot aren't interested!

I don't see that it is anti-social. I can finish at 10:00, change at work, and be out strutting my stuff on the dance floor by 10:30 (read: sat in a corner, sipping a drink, looking bored, by 10:30). As for health - I think that's largely confined to those working after midnight who stuff themselves with microwave meals.

[bw41101]

Absolutely! there are still places that continue with long hour shifts. A typical example are the poor beggars working within the amusement arcades at most seaside resorts. :erm:

I know, because (being a Blackpool resident) I used to work within that particular industry until I finally saw the light and got out. 25 years ago the average working week was 55 hours from 08:00 hours to 23:00 hours 7 days a week. I would imagine it's even worse now as many arcades stay open until 02:00 hrs and beyond - long days! :zzz:

Back in those days I worked for a well known company and (believe it or not) WE were the only technicians (within the industry) which fought for and won union recognition (EETPU). With that, we achieved a (fixed hours) working week, premium rates for working public holidays and proper holiday entitlements. Unfortunately those privileges don't exist now - diluted to zero (over the years) by unscrupulous employers and feeble minded employees with no backbone. :mad:

Just a tip for anyone who might consider going into that industry - don't, especially if you value your social life, friends and your marriage. :argue: Anyway the salaries (from what I've heard from contacts I know within the industry) still are cr*p

Si thee

[Anonymouse]

As for health - I think that's largely confined to those working after midnight who stuff themselves with microwave meals.
It's more a question of adjusting to sleep patterns completely contrary to millions of years of evolution - not everyone can adjust - and the effects it has on neurochemistry. Night shift working has been identified as a possible contributing factor in some people to a number of diseases and illnesses, as described here (http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/sep1999/shift-s06.shtml). The drop in melanin levels because you're asleep during the day and awake at night doesn't help either.

And at our place we don't even get 1/3 - we get 30%, thanks to our skinflint poxy company. :mad: After following that link myself, I'm wondering if even 1/3 is enough to justify it...

I'm fairly sure that in this country at least, by law night shift workers must be paid a shift allowance; 1/3 is the usual if you're working for a halfway decent firm. What that says about Home Delivery Network Ltd. is obvious. :rolleyes: Unsocial hours are defined as being between 10pm and 6am. And it is unsocial; even with extended licensing hours, the only time anyone working 10-6 will see the inside of a pub is at the weekend or on nights off.

[alferret]

I have only ever worked unsociable hours for 1 company and that was back in the mid-eighties. It was a 2-10 shift and for that we got paid and extra tenner a shift, 50 quid a week was worth working those later hours then.
Today I wouldnt work past 6pm and would never contemplate nights.

[slowcoach]

I am a self-employed software developer and when I started my business I used to work during the day but invariably I would be unable to solve a problem so I would pack it in for the day, suddenly at 10.00 pm the answer would come to me and I would get back on the job and work through the night. I soon realised that I was much more productive at night so I started “doing nights” all the time.
Mind you it's not like doing a physical job, after a few hours kip I can go out and about during the day.

Funny thing is, there was a famous mathematician on the TV who said that just because I am a mathematician people think I can just sit down and write a solution but usually I struggle all day with a problem then at 10.00 pm the answer suddenly comes to me, I thought it was quite ironic that he mentioned 10.00 pm.

[Angua]

There is a big difference between a late shift and a night shift! antisocial hours used to be graded depending on the time, before 8am was antisocial and after 6pm then the second tier of antisocial hours were after 10pm to midnight then between midnight and 6am.
Before they moved the goal posts where hubby worked he used to get a 58% night shift allowance & days got 38%. Now it is a flat rate payment! :(

[lostandconfused]

i work in a nightclub, working 21:00 - 4:30, dont get antisocial pay and am expected to work public holidays. But then again i supose you if know what your signing up to you cant really complain later on.

[Chorlton]

I work in the chemical industry, 12hr shifts, days and nights, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year (not every day obviously - it's quite a good system as we get regular 18 day breaks and 4 days off between sets of 4 shifts - 2 days, 2 nights). The extra pay for unsocial hours plus other extras accounts for about 30% of pay. Sounds good but long shifts and night working is no good to anybody, but until we get robot replacements (or golems for DW readers) there's no other option.

[Halcyon]

I know some friends who work awful hours as they work at the airport and have to start some shifts at 3.00am.
I personally could not do that and once you have a family, I think it is near impossible to do this type of work.

[greencreeper]

I've no family and have no intention of having family, so I guess "unsociable hours" are ideal for people like me. I'll be getting 25%, which I thought was very reasonable given that I'll be doing less work.

[homealone]

The pattern I couldn't get on with was 'split shifts', being there 0700-1000 then back at 1700 - 2200, or so.

I'm on a 'days' job, now, but when I did work nights I found I could cope - but it put quite a restriction on family life....

I think, overall, there is a justification for paying people extra to work 'unsociable' hours :)

[Vlad_Dracul]

In the context of employment and shifts, do unsociable hours exist anymore, or are they a relic from the days of the Unions?

What about remuneration for such shifts - is extra pay justified, and how much extra?

Of course there are certain working hours/shift patterns which may be deemed more onerous than others. Its really down to what industry you work in,what the hours are,what sort of work you do ,and what the shift patterns are.

In most cases there would be some kind of premium or other remuneration for such work. But then in some industries/jobs, and in todays' Britian, if you don't do it,someone else often will.

[ian@huth]

Employers tend to pay the minimum needed to get staff of the right calibre and retain them. If their business needs people working unsociable hours then they have to pay extra if it is difficult to recruit and retain staff. It can be very expensive to have to keep recruiting and training new staff if they try to pay minimum wages.

[gaffer_gump]

We get £515 a month on top of our wage for working shifts, it's not bad as we only work 12 shifts a month but the 12 hr nights are head messers..

[Peil]

You know that way you just realise you're being taken for a mug....

My place, a very large professional services company, recently bought in 24*7 working, originally to provide technical support to various other countries.

It started off on 3 shifts. 7-3 3-11, 11-7. Trouble was the shift pattern was devised by someone who didn't have to work it so we had 5 days 7-3, 48 hours off then 5 days 3-11 (so we had Mon to Fri, finish 3pm Fri and back at 3pm Sunday for example). Then we got 2 whole days off and back in at 11pm on the third one, 5 nights then back at 7am on the third day.

Body clock was so messed up it was unreal, plus we had training courses organised for our down days. We finally snapped when myself and a colleague worked 21 days with 2 days off due to their training.

Now I originally signed up for it as I was getting an immediate promotion but the shift allowance was, and still is 15%!

We shifted onto 12 hour shifts about 2 months ago now, 4 days, 4 off, 4 nights, 4 off. Now it feels like your never in the place, so despite the promotion I don't feel like I'm involved as much in the running of the place, but 4 off is a wee bonus.

I am in a union, but the chances of getting people in IT, especially when the place is full of contractors, to actually join up is pretty limited, I don't even know if we have a rep in the entire firm, or who I would speak to about trying a recruitment drive.

[mrmistoffelees]

I've worked shfts for most of my life , when i was younger i worked for a newspaper and my shifts were as follows

week1 14:00 - 22:00 (weekend off)
week2: 07:00 - 15:00 Saturday (07:00 -23:00 Sunday 07:00 - 23:00)
week3: 14:00 - 22:00 Monday only (Rest of week off)
week4: 09:00 - 17:00 (weekend off)

The weekend shift used to kill me :D

Now im on flexi time and can start/finish anytime I want. I am however on 24/7 standby three weeks in every four :(

[Peil]

I think that weekend shift would kill anyone:Yikes:

At least in my place I have managed to scare them a bit by quoting some stuff I found on the HSE website.

The shift change came about when I started using a fatigue index calculator, and showed them in a nice little chart that we were all knackered and thats why the jobs weren't being done properly.

I also quoted the 11 hour 'rule' whereby night workers can't be asked to start a new shift within 11 hours of the old one finishing - You tie that up with the the European ruling that any shift worked who works more than 1/3 of his rota'd time between midnight and 6am must be classified as a night worker and you're well on the way to telling them to get stuffed when they want overtime (Yes they have asked...)

One thing I have noticed, from a management perspective, is that people are more willing to throw a sicky, but HR being HR you can't tell someone to get his/her @rse in wen you know they just want a night in the pub.

[handyman]

I am a self-employed software developer and when I started my business I used to work during the day but invariably I would be unable to solve a problem so I would pack it in for the day, suddenly at 10.00 pm the answer would come to me and I would get back on the job and work through the night. I soon realised that I was much more productive at night so I started “doing nights” all the time.
Mind you it's not like doing a physical job, after a few hours kip I can go out and about during the day.


That's Bizarre, sometime I can not get started during the day however most nights (usually after 10pm_ I can happily work at home and through till 1am.

[greencreeper]

I've just done a 10-10 :tired: I was meant to start the new 2-10 on Wednesday, but had to be elsewhere from 6, so swapped with someone. He then wanted to swap my 2-10 today for his 10-6, so he could take the morning off. We've a big project on, so I worked 6-10 and claimed 4 hours overtime :D Tiring though. Properly start the 2-10 tomorrow. It's a very strange experience being in work that late :erm:

[Knight DG]

I work shifts in a distribution centre (5 X 8 hrs) -

Days: 06:00 - 10:00
Afters: 10:00 - 18:00
Nights: 18:00 - 06:00

Day shift is basic rate, Afters is basic + 15%, Nights is Basic + 20%.
Saturdays are paid as time and a half plus the shift premium, Sunday is double time (+ premium).

A lot of people are happy to work the shifts due to the higher pay rates but then they complain about the lack of social/family life that results. Being currently single this not a issue for me - but i can see the problems someone with a wife and kids would suffer.

[Hugh]

We had some "interesting" shifts when I was in the RAF...

Day 1 - 16:00 - 23:00
Day 2 - 08:00 - 16:00 and 23:00 - 08:00 Day 3
Day 3 - sleep off, having finished at 08:00
Day 4 - 16:00 - 23:00
Day 5 - 08:00 - 16:00 and 23:00 - 08:00 Day 6
Day 6 - sleep off, having finished at 08:00
Day 7 - Off
Day 8 - Off
then start again.....

It really screwed up your body clock - I went on a course at Bletchley Park (when it was active in the 70's), and it was days (8-5); every one on the course fell asleep after dinner, as our bodies were used to having a couple of hours sleep between day and night shift.

And no, there was no "pay premium" over our day-working colleagues - it went with the uniform.

[Chris W]

My staff are paid 20% premium for nights, 25% premium for saturdays (friday 11pm- saturday 11pm), 25% premium for sundays (saturday 11pm- sunday 11pm) or 50% for sundays if they started work before 1996. Double pay plus a day in lieu for working a bank holiday.

The day is split into 3 shifts - 7/3, 3/11, 11/7 with a couple of extra shifts during the day 10/6 and 12/8. Staff can refuse to work back to back shifts, or shifts with only 8 hours in between, but some will do it because of the extra money.

Management have it a little differently- we have a start time (any time from 5am to 3pm) and we finish when everything is done....

I used to regularly put in 60-70 hours over 5 days, but not any more... normally i'm in work from 7am- 5pm, had enough of wearing myself out!!