View Full Version : Not quite as "free" as you thought.
Just got my phone bill recently and discovered that I've been charged for some calls made over a weekend. Now according to my scheme (Talk evenings and weekends) I shouldn't have been charged. :confused:
Anyway when I checked, it was to my gas/electricity supplier, I.e an 0845 number, WHAT!!! When I queried this with VM they told me that these "non geographical" numbers (0845 0870 Etc) are not included in the phone packages. Not blaming VM, but what really grips me is that I was kept hanging about (on hold) for ages (sound familiar) with my energy supplier AND (to add insult to injury) having to pay a premium for the privilege as well.
Believe it or not, these organisations use this as a way of generating extra revenue over and above their service charges - what a rip off!! :mad: Suitably hacked off, I've done some investigating and have discovered a website that'll benefit me and (hopefully) many others as well - this being:
http://www.saynoto0870.com
If you click on the link "Search to find an alternative number", this should allow you to find the direct call numbers of the major companies (without using the 08* numbers) and allow you to contact them (on their local numbers) without getting ripped off in the process. And here's me thinking that only our government could introduce stealth taxes. :mad:
Flaming cheek - got this sorted out - won't get caught out again..! ;)
Good luck and Si thee
MovedGoalPosts
08-07-2007, 01:42
It's worth noting that it's not just Virgin Media, but all telecom suppliers who don't include the 0845 and 0870 type non geographic numbers in their "all inclusive" type tarrifs.
It's worth noting that it's not just Virgin Media, but all telecom suppliers who don't include the 0845 and 0870 type non geographic numbers in their "all inclusive" type tarrifs.
Well noted and (it seems) all the more reason for people to be made aware of this (not so obvious) scam.
Si thee
All the small print states that NGN are charged. If it's any consolation 0870 are charged at a national rate and are not, country to popular belief, premium rate numbers. Another point is that the revenue generated for the companies using these NGN is minimal, and are used more for the conveyance of having a number of similar numbers for the same company based in difference geographical areas, thus creating a uniformity.
In one contact centre I managed we handled approx 750k calls per year, the money generated didn't even make a blip on the P&L.
On a side note we use NGN at work, and I think they are cock. I always give the customer the non-NGN number if requested.
chickendippers
08-07-2007, 09:42
Shame you were kept on hold by your supplier, I've never had to wait for npower or Northumbria water to answer. Saynoto0870.com is an invaluable website I always use it so I don't get charged through the nose for calling from my mobile.
papa smurf
08-07-2007, 10:37
i fell for it ,i signed up to the vm staff package which includes talk 24 unlimmited, and you guessed it got a bill for calls to my bank [which is charged at local rate] but vm still insist its not in the call plan , now it was only 87 p, but thats not the point isit, nice little loophole theyve got there , just annoys the customers and does nothing for our reputation as a company:td:
All the small print states that NGN are charged. If it's any consolation 0870 are charged at a national rate and are not, country to popular belief, premium rate numbers. Another point is that the revenue generated for the companies using these NGN is minimal, and are used more for the conveyance of having a number of similar numbers for the same company based in difference geographical areas, thus creating a uniformity.
In one contact centre I managed we handled approx 750k calls per year, the money generated didn't even make a blip on the P&L.
On a side note we use NGN at work, and I think they are cock. I always give the customer the non-NGN number if requested.
0870 numbers used to charge the same rate as national calls, this is no longer the case.
0845 numbers used to charge the same rate as local calls, this is no longer the case.
Hence, they are regarded by the public as premium rate numbers, but not as expenive as some premium rate numbers.
This won't be going on for much longer OFCOM are making them put them into their inclusive packages :tu:
0870 numbers used to charge the same rate as national calls, this is no longer the case.
0845 numbers used to charge the same rate as local calls, this is no longer the case.
Hence, they are regarded by the public as premium rate numbers, but not as expenive as some premium rate numbers.
a lot has obvioulsy changed since i've been out of the industry.
Most of the big companies have gone over to 0845 numbers and some have gone over to 0871 numbers which can have a higher rate. If I ever have to call one of these I first have a look at this web site http://www.saynoto0870.co.uk/search.php For any of these 0845 Local Rate Number, 0870 National Rate Number, 0871 Special Rate Number
Most have a normal 01 or 02 number and some have a free phone number. :p:
I can understand VM charging for modem access but if you are calling a local number or national number the calls should be free. :mad:
BUT from what I can gather companies who use the 0845 numbers get a better call handling free of charge and those who use 0871 get a small percentage of the call charge.
Me I won’t use them for anything, I won’t even call the local police as they have now gone over to a 0845 number it's 999 or nothing. :(
February '08 OFCOM will make 0870 cost the same as National calls so if they're free on your package then they'll be free to call. 0845 will still cost the same - shame but still better. Those that still want to get some revenue from the calls will have to move to 0871 (10ppm at all times) but be bound by the same rules as those on 09 premium numbers i.e. not have a queue, announce the cost of the call etc....
Not ideal but definitely better. :)
Just to let everyone know, calls to 0845 and 0870 numbers are included in Talk Anywhere allowances!
They are charged at standard rates on all other plans including XL.
The new 03 national numbers WILL be included in your free allowances on M,L and XL talk packages as well as Talk anywhere. This is because there is no revenue share for the companies using 03 numbers.
Calls to 01,02 and 03 numbers lasting longer than 59p minutes will be charged at 3p per minute. So when you reach 57 minutes, its best to hang up and redial to continue to chatting for free. Furthermore, calls to internet dial up and multi-media services via 01,02 and 03 numbers WILL be charged for as phone companies can detect whether its a voice or a data call.
Calls to 0871 numbers are charged at 12p per minute with a 10p connection charge from Virgin Media landlines.
Hope that helps!
Just to let everyone know, calls to 0845 and 0870 numbers are included in Talk Anywhere allowances!
They are charged at standard rates on all other plans including XL
I think you'll find they're not.
handyman
22-07-2007, 00:56
I think you'll find they're not.
He could of course be divulging information from Virgin that is not for pubic consumption yet.
They are!
If you are on Talk Anywhere 200,400 or 800 then they are, well they are for me. I spent 40 minutes on the phone to the Inland revenue which was an 0845 number and it came out of my minutes, I have even asked customer services to double check.
However if you are on the other plans such as M which used to be called Talk Weekends and 3-2-1Standard, L which used to be called Talk Evenings and Weekends or XL which used to be called Talk Unlimited 24 then expect to be charged for calls to all 08 numbers except 0800 and 0808.
And if you still don't believe have a look at their website:
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/websales/product.do?id=10533
This paragraph is from that link:
Which calls are included?
Landline UK numbers (they usually start with 01 and 02)
Mobile phones (starting with 07)
Non-geographic numbers (starting 08 except for 0800)
International landlines and international mobiles (all countries)
Dial-up internet numbers
Which calls aren't included?
Calls to premium rate UK numbers (they usually start 09). These calls are usually charged between 5p and £1.50 per minute or they may have a flat fee charge of up to £1.50. Please see Virgin Phone Calling Costs (http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/phone/callingcosts.html) for further information.
calls to international premium rate services
calls to the operator services
calls that are connected through the operator
calls to European, Thuraya, Indium or Inmarsat mobile satellite servicesThats the only reason why I signed up for Talk anywhere last year when Telewest launched it.
They are!
If you are on Talk Anywhere 200,400 or 800 then they are, well they are for me. I spent 40 minutes on the phone to the Inland revenue which was an 0845 number and it came out of my minutes, I have even asked customer services to double check.
However if you are on the other plans such as M which used to be called Talk Weekends and 3-2-1Standard, L which used to be called Talk Evenings and Weekends or XL which used to be called Talk Unlimited 24 then expect to be charged for calls to all 08 numbers except 0800 and 0808.
And if you still don't believe have a look at their website:
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/websales/product.do?id=10533
This paragraph is from that link:
Which calls are included?
Landline UK numbers (they usually start with 01 and 02)
Mobile phones (starting with 07)
Non-geographic numbers (starting 08 except for 0800)
International landlines and international mobiles (all countries)
Dial-up internet numbers
Which calls aren't included?
Calls to premium rate UK numbers (they usually start 09). These calls are usually charged between 5p and £1.50 per minute or they may have a flat fee charge of up to £1.50. Please see Virgin Phone Calling Costs (http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/phone/callingcosts.html) for further information.
calls to international premium rate services
calls to the operator services
calls that are connected through the operator
calls to European, Thuraya, Indium or Inmarsat mobile satellite servicesThats the only reason why I signed up for Talk anywhere last year when Telewest launched it.
Looks like I was wrong. However they're not the tariffs 99.9% of people are on -I'd never heard of them. They're not on the sign up page (ore weren't offered to me the other week when I signed up for BB only) :erm:
Well Ruby wax has been advertising it all week and Uma Thurman a few months ago with those ad's 'you can call my apartment in new york for the price as calling your neighbour'' ect......
Talk anywhere has always included 0845 and 0870 numbers.
As per usual it was Telewest that launched this to residential customers, telewest was always the one to launch things and NTL just copied.
In fact it was Cable and Wireless which launched such a service in 2005 to its business customers and was called 'Smart talk'. I expect they offer a lot more minutes such as 1,500 minutes and would cost the same as Virgin Media's 400 plan since businesses would add smart talk on multiple lines and would therefore save money.
Just to let everyone know, revenue share will end on 0870 numbers, but this is very bad news as companies are migrating to 0871 numbers and calls to these cost 12p per minutes plus 10p connection from Virgin phones and costs 15p per minute from Virgin Mobiles. It costs 35p per minute on Orange phones though. So consumers have not won after all.
New 03 national numbers have been introduced and these do not involve revenue share at all and therefore means that they will be part of your talk plan.
When revenue share ends or when 03 numbers become popular, mobile firms will still charge the same rates for these calls,below is a summary:
Pay as you go non-geogrpahical rates:
Orange: 25p per minute to call 03,05,0800,0844,0845 and 0870 numbers
35p per minute to call 0871 numbers
50p per minute to call 070 numbers
0800-REVERSE is free.
Virgin: Charge 15p per minute to call 0844,0845,0870 and 0871 numbers
Charge 10p per minute to call 0500,0800,0808 and free-page numbers
Charge 50p to £2.50 per minute to call 070 and 09 numbers(Call 22524 free on your virgin mobile to find out more)
Vodafone&O2: Charge the standard geogrpahical rate for calling 05 and 08 numbers except 0871 numbers which cost a lot more. 0800-REVERSE is free.
T-Mobile: Charge 40p per minute to call all 05 and all 08 numbers excpet 0800-REVERSE which is free.
NOTE: Orange and Virgin no longer offer free calls to freephone numbers on pay monthly. It costs 10p per minute on T-Mobile pay monthly,Flext and U-Fix to call freephone 0500,0800 and 0808 numbers.
Operator calls:
100 calls to UK operator assistance is barred on all networks.
155 costs £1.50 per minute on T-Mobile phones and is free on Virgin Mobiles,the service is provided by Cable and Wireless UK. 155 is not available on any other network.
icklelight
22-07-2007, 14:15
the reason u might not have been offered them shaun is that the Talk Anywhere is only available on One of the billing systems....ie ICOMS....peeopl who live in areaes where Harmony is their billing system wont get htem until the migration in october time-ish....I live in Swansea and my billing system (SMS) just got migratated onto ICOMS... which means i can now go onto that clal plan whcih will save me money as most if notallmy calls are to 0845 etc :)
Thats correct!
The north west of England got the new billing system first and then the North London cable franchise which are both Telewest.
Cable and Wireless(Mercury&Energis)(Not refering to Bulldog) managed to roll out the new billing system within a month, why do other companies seem to find it hard! BT doesn't even offer anything like this not even to its business customers and as for talktalk, its just expensive when it comes non-geographical numbers.
the reason u might not have been offered them shaun is that the Talk Anywhere is only available on One of the billing systems....ie ICOMS....peeopl who live in areaes where Harmony is their billing system wont get htem until the migration in october time-ish....I live in Swansea and my billing system (SMS) just got migratated onto ICOMS... which means i can now go onto that clal plan whcih will save me money as most if notallmy calls are to 0845 etc :)
Sounds sensible but still not as sensible as jsut using a company like Vonage. Free calls to landlines (and mobiles in the states) in the UK, US, Canada, Germany, Spain, France etc.
Much better package than 400 min for £20 a month even if that does include 08 numbers.. :)
---------- Post added at 18:33 ---------- Previous post was at 18:32 ----------
Just to let everyone know, revenue share will end on 0870 numbers, but this is very bad news as companies are migrating to 0871 numbers and calls to these cost 12p per minutes plus 10p connection from Virgin phones and costs 15p per minute from Virgin Mobiles. It costs 35p per minute on Orange phones though. So consumers have not won after all.
However they will be regulated and there'll be no use of call queues and the like :)
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