View Full Version : Manchester?
Any one in the manchester area on 20meg yet?
Thanks, Danny
Vlad_Dracul
21-06-2007, 08:47
I cant even get the ntl email server this morning so 20mb is simply pie in the sky. Advertising a service,collecting money but not delivering. Almost criminal.
LostintheNW
21-06-2007, 09:57
Not on the service here, although I think I am being traffic managed which is nice!
I think I will end up on this service quite a lot as i am forever downloading stuff from xbox live - good work virgin! can't even host simple GOW matches on 10meg and will have no chance on 20meg with this new system.
Anyone else in the Manchester area seem to get e-mails 3 days later from when they were sent?
Not on the service here, although I think I am being traffic managed which is nice!
I think I will end up on this service quite a lot as i am forever downloading stuff from xbox live - good work virgin! can't even host simple GOW matches on 10meg and will have no chance on 20meg with this new system.
Anyone else in the Manchester area seem to get e-mails 3 days later from when they were sent?
EXACTLY what im waiting for, i cant host a game on r6 vegas - its so poor i only want the upload :(
I'm on Ashton which always seem to change from routing to Manchester and Oldham ...... About 2 am last night, outgoing data died on broadband, incoming was working though .. very weird, tried rebooting modem and router and stuff but no dice. Seems to be working this morning.
cookster
21-06-2007, 12:43
Manchester is a mess! They can't deliver anywhere near 10mbit so no chance of a decent 20mbit connection.
I've been monitoring my speeds for over a month and average between 2-3mbit. I'm waiting for the 20mbit to arrive in hope they've improved the service. If not then I'm off to Sky.....
iv always has 9.7 meg - and at least 6 meg so id ring them and say your going to cancell if they dont sort it out
cookster
21-06-2007, 14:45
iv always has 9.7 meg - and at least 6 meg so id ring them and say your going to cancell if they dont sort it out
Already done it! They offered me a crackerjack deal to stay!
The engineer has been out to my house loads of times. Like I said if the network improvements for 20mbit don't make any difference I'm off come July!
Im getting 10mb on FTP no problem, sometimes over. Last night it was a bit ropey as I was downloading the Enemy Territory Quake Wars Beta and I suspect a lot of people were so it fluctuated a bit. Other than that it was pretty plain sailing
Im in Blackburn and no 20Mb here, however, other threads say upgrades happen in the last couple of days of the month...
Give it a week.
Manchester is a mess! They can't deliver anywhere near 10mbit so no chance of a decent 20mbit connection.
I've been monitoring my speeds for over a month and average between 2-3mbit. I'm waiting for the 20mbit to arrive in hope they've improved the service. If not then I'm off to Sky.....
(greater)Manchester is a Very BIG place, and actually, this part of wythenshawe/baguley etc, south manchester (central, around civic) at least ,can manage 10Mbit just fine on NTL250/VM255, but then i assume we are not on to over-subscribed UBR's like manchester UNI area will probably be etc.
Okay so retared Virgin support, booked a engineer in for between 8 and 12 then got told by someone at virgin when i demanded a £10 discount for not sending a engineer (same charge they apply when your not in) bepppp cut me off, then they send an engineer round at 6pm and he fully denies the original booking and says its always been booked in from 4 till 7 ... anyway
he did absolutely nothing but plug my cable in and said wooah u have a good connection ... duh anyway he said the 20mbps is coming in in manchester either on the 26th or 28th of this month and told me to reset my modem every day on those days to see if i get the new speed.
just thought i'd let ya know :)
scrotnig
22-06-2007, 20:56
I'm currently only testing 3.06 mb on a 10mb connection in Manchester. Which is less than what I used to get on 4mb. I only went to 10mb because you have to as part of the VIP deal. Yet for me it slowed down! I don't want 20mb, it will probably slow down again. I wish they'd leave it alone.
spankysmagicpian
22-06-2007, 21:32
I usually get 9.42mb the majority of the time so we'll see what happens come 20Mb rollout.
jbrennand
22-06-2007, 23:59
I'm currently only testing 3.06 mb on a 10mb connection in Manchester. Which is less than what I used to get on 4mb. I only went to 10mb because you have to as part of the VIP deal. Yet for me it slowed down! I don't want 20mb, it will probably slow down again. I wish they'd leave it alone.
I too moved to the VIP package a couple of weeks ago and the connection on 2 of my machines is always between 9-10 Mb - doesn't seem to be restricted much in the evenings either (Didsbury) - so i'm well pleased with it - bring on the 20.
However the Mac in the back room only ever gets 2-3 Mbs. I'm sure it's because it has an old 11b card in it which is throttling the connection speed. I don't believe these 11Mbs cards can get anywhere close to 10Mbs. Anyway I got a new 54g card which i'll fit this weekend to see if that sorts it.
I'm no techie but it does make me wonder whether a lot of folks' problems with higher connection speeds may be hardware related?
JohnB
slowcoach
23-06-2007, 01:43
I had a couple of cheap Realtek chipset 10/100 cards I got from scan, they would only manage 6-7 meg, popped some Realtek chipset gigabit cards in and been on 10 meg ever since.
spankysmagicpian
23-06-2007, 09:40
Indeed. I moved from 4mb to 10mb with VIP when it was launched. Best I could get was a 6mb download rate. Turned out to be my router, swapped it and it's been fine ever since.
Guess even though it was 10/100 the internal switch electronics just couldn't hack it.
The problem for us users is to find a really accurate and reliable method of measuring broadband speed.
When I use the Cableforum speed test my speeds are pretty close to the advertised 10Mb or even higher e.g. 10.15
When I use Speedtest the results are varied but generally lower.
When I use Daniel Elwell's Broadband speed tester results are mixed but the test is deemed "inconclusive."
It's a pity that no-one has invented a daily direct debit which can adjust the payment according to the speeds which the customer has on that day.
I think a lot of us feel we are being ripped off, paying for a service that we are not receiving. It's not a nice feeling especially as there does not appear to be a reliable alternative.
slowcoach
23-06-2007, 10:37
Indeed. I moved from 4mb to 10mb with VIP when it was launched. Best I could get was a 6mb download rate. Turned out to be my router, swapped it and it's been fine ever since.
Guess even though it was 10/100 the internal switch electronics just couldn't hack it.
In the past a lot of routers had 10/100 LAN ports but the WAN port was only 10, the router specification used to make a big thing about the 10/100 ports but information on the speed of the WAN port was cunningly hidden.
About three years ago many of the discount dealers had got hold of a load of the slow routers and had a big push, knowing that they were about to become obsolete.
Many people upgrading their BB speed later found that they had been suckered.
Indeed. I moved from 4mb to 10mb with VIP when it was launched. Best I could get was a 6mb download rate. Turned out to be my router, swapped it and it's been fine ever since.
Guess even though it was 10/100 the internal switch electronics just couldn't hack it.
As a matter of interest, which router were you using originally please?
An which one are you using now?
Manchester (Oldham) upgraded this morning. Yipeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!
spankysmagicpian
26-06-2007, 11:56
As a matter of interest, which router were you using originally please?
An which one are you using now?
I was using a SMC Barricade 47 something I think - it wasn't wireless but it did 'last' for over 5 years... and it's still working.
I bought a Linksys WRT54G-UK on advice from this forum.It's wireless but I only use the wireless feature for my Wii. To be honest, it works but I'm not that impressed by it - it's now twice crashed and trashed the firmware (standard linksys FW) whilst doing it.
Manchester (Stockport) upgraded.
AndyIggs83
26-06-2007, 12:13
looks like Manchester has definitely been upgraded then!
cookster
26-06-2007, 12:41
Tameside, Manchester hasn't!!!
Apparently Manchester upgrades are happening between 26-28th...
upgraded here manchester (abbey hey) near tameside, have you reset your modem cookster ?
cookster
26-06-2007, 13:45
upgraded here manchester (abbey hey) near tameside, have you reset your modem cookster ?
Tried it first this this morning and it was still 10mbit approx 7am. I will reset again when I get home from work!
andip1967
26-06-2007, 13:47
Whoop dee doo for Blackburn BB area, my goodness its quick.
bigdavep
26-06-2007, 16:26
Got upgraded to 20mb today here in Bolton however my internet seems to be running about 4mb instead of the rock steady 9.5mb I usually get. I'll wait to see if it settles down over the next few days.....
Does anyone know if the Baguley server has been upgraded yet please? TIA.
Not yet mate, done a reboot and DOCSIS file is still for 10Mbit
Can't be to long now, just hold in there :D
Not yet mate, done a reboot and DOCSIS file is still for 10Mbit
Can't be to long now, just hold in there :D
Cheers r00t, thanks for that.
Did a reboot on the offchance it had been upgraded but no such luck.
Looks like it's scheduled for July as previously stated.
spankysmagicpian
26-06-2007, 18:39
Cheers r00t, thanks for that.
Did a reboot on the offchance it had been upgraded but no such luck.
Looks like it's scheduled for July as previously stated.
It was July, then they changed it and it's now showing June. Another 4 days left :)
Finger crossed its not changed to July at the last moment.
I'll be rebooting at 1am tonight :D
It was July, then they changed it and it's now showing June. Another 4 days left :)
Can't be bad, spankysmagicpian. Thanks for that. Looks like it'll be a reboot a day until it happens.
In Stockport here... still on 10mb... any reason why other in Stockport are on 20 and i'm not?
Rebooted modem like 4 times :(
I'm SK2 and haven't got it yet...
thelight1974
26-06-2007, 21:16
Good Upload but what about the download?
Last Result:
Download Speed: 1263 kbps (157.9 KB/sec ) Upload Speed: 711 kbps (88.9 KB/sec )
1.2meg should be 20mb??????
why do virgin hate me????????
I'm in Stockport, SK3 and no upgrade yet, reset modem too.
wtaylor82
26-06-2007, 21:20
i am on 20mb and live in denton down the road from stockport
The problem for us users is to find a really accurate and reliable method of measuring broadband speed.
When I use the Cableforum speed test my speeds are pretty close to the advertised 10Mb or even higher e.g. 10.15
When I use Speedtest the results are varied but generally lower.
When I use Daniel Elwell's Broadband speed tester results are mixed but the test is deemed "inconclusive."
It's a pity that no-one has invented a daily direct debit which can adjust the payment according to the speeds which the customer has on that day.
I think a lot of us feel we are being ripped off, paying for a service that we are not receiving. It's not a nice feeling especially as there does not appear to be a reliable alternative.
thats easy, just use your supplyed VM webspace and FTP upload a 2-10 meg file to it for the reliable upload speed, then re-download it twice , once with http and again with ftp, that will tell you for sure,at least as far as the internal VM network and the modem setting are concerned.
---------- Post added at 21:36 ---------- Previous post was at 21:30 ----------
I was using a SMC Barricade 47 something I think - it wasn't wireless but it did 'last' for over 5 years... and it's still working.
I bought a Linksys WRT54G-UK on advice from this forum.It's wireless but I only use the wireless feature for my Wii. To be honest, it works but I'm not that impressed by it - it's now twice crashed and trashed the firmware (standard linksys FW) whilst doing it.
just stick a 3rd party firmware on it and be happy at the faster speed and impressed at the extra options you then have.
---------- Post added at 21:39 ---------- Previous post was at 21:36 ----------
Not yet mate, done a reboot and DOCSIS file is still for 10Mbit
Can't be to long now, just hold in there :D
didnt think you were on the Baguley bit root?.
browser CF & VM front page updating in Baguley seems crud today though...
---------- Post added at 21:50 ---------- Previous post was at 21:39 ----------
In Stockport here... still on 10mb... any reason why other in Stockport are on 20 and i'm not?
Rebooted modem like 4 times :(
it seems rather odd, what UBR does it say your on ?
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/misc.php?do=connection
if its a baguley one then that would explain it i supose as thats not done yet according to what bill got told in the
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33613361-20mb-schedule-page-68.html#post34337466 thread today 21:15 post.
didnt think you were on the Baguley bit root?.
browser CF & VM front page updating in Baguley seems crud today though...
Aye sadly I'm on the Baguley uBR, sure you know this is ex-NTL mate.
Can't wait til everything is ICOMS and ISA enabled ( or some coloured tools ) ;) so then I can keep a check on the uBR I'm on. And of course helpout a little more with our ex-NTL franchise members here.
cookster
26-06-2007, 22:02
20mbit in Tameside now :)
city-boy
26-06-2007, 22:33
Manchester City Center. I looked at my modem file, 10MB, rebooted my modem Hey Presto 20MB. Did a www.speedtest.net (http://www.speedtest.net)
But how crap is this! This was one of the better tests I've done. Is it worth my while contacting their support number before it goes £1 a minute LOL
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2007/06/18.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
daymouse
26-06-2007, 22:38
that type of speed test arent reliable, someone else can explain. The best way to see true speed is download of the virgin newsgroups servers.
I am on cpc3-ward3-0-0-custXXX.manc.cable.ntl.com can someone confirm which UBR this is as the info means little to me.
Rebooted modem several times today and still only 10 Meg ??? ..
Also I am on a 120 Modem and was wondering how people in Manchester are finding the 120 Modem on 20 Meg ???
Cheers all
Coolur :angel:
daymouse
26-06-2007, 22:51
I am on cpc3-ward3-0-0-custXXX.manc.cable.ntl.com can someone confirm which UBR this is as the info means little to me.
Rebooted modem several times today and still only 10 Meg ??? ..
Also I am on a 120 Modem and was wondering how people in Manchester are finding the 120 Modem on 20 Meg ???
Cheers all
Coolur :angel:
looks like your on the manchester one
Manchester area including: Oldham, Bolton, Burnley, Rochdale, Blackburn, Salford, Stockport
which is due to be done June
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/existingcustomers/faster/schedule.html
spankysmagicpian
27-06-2007, 00:43
just stick a 3rd party firmware on it and be happy at the faster speed and be impressed at the extra options you then have.
I know I should Popper but it fills me with fear - the Linksys has been working now for over 2 months :tu: and I'm reluctant to break it :dozey:
slowcoach
27-06-2007, 11:01
I know I should Popper but it fills me with fear - the Linksys has been working now for over 2 months :tu: and I'm reluctant to break it :dozey:
Download the original firmware file from linksys then you can always put things back as they were. Like most things in life, it's easier than you think it's going to be.
spankysmagicpian
27-06-2007, 12:10
I'll have a look for the link in the tech forum and have a go this weekend. I wouldn't mind but I'm Network Admin / Support here and I usually never RTFM but it different when it's my stuff :D
Tried a hard reboot here this morning but it had no effect so I guess the Baguley server hasn't been done yet.
Im on Bagurly server here in Stoke, supposed to be june but i doubt it
Im on Bagurly server here in Stoke, supposed to be june but i doubt it
Bagueley was originally scheduled for July but then that was changed to June so it may happen in the next day or so.If not it will be July, as you say.
im in sale, still no upgrade, maybe instead of putting june - they should of put july!!!!
NM as long as its done soon im not too fussed
im in sale, still no upgrade, maybe instead of putting june - they should of put july!!!!
NM as long as its done soon im not too fussed
Still no change today, but there's still time for the Baguley server to be updated in June.
Mind you, as you say, it's no big deal as long as it is done soon.
Cobbydaler
28-06-2007, 07:27
I know I should Popper but it fills me with fear - the Linksys has been working now for over 2 months :tu: and I'm reluctant to break it :dozey:
Just make sure you get the right firmware for your version...
If you've got a V7 then you're out of luck, as it uses a different chipset.
Useful info here (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=34337654) & here (http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Supported_Devices#List_of_all_supported_routers).. .
I'm in Stockport. This morning now getting speeds of around 18 meg. Looks like we now have the upgrade here.
Just turned off the power to do a hard reset but according to Speedtest I'm still on the 10Mb service so the Baguley server hasn't been upgraded yet.
Just hope that the 20Mb service is a major improvement when it comes.
LostintheNW
29-06-2007, 11:55
looks like your on the manchester one
Manchester area including: Oldham, Bolton, Burnley, Rochdale, Blackburn, Salford, Stockport
which is due to be done June
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/existingcustomers/faster/schedule.html
I am on this UBR as I come under Oldham and I have been upgraded to 20meg....dont be in a rush for it, slower than 10meg and for me my connection to xbox live has been cr@p i can no longer host games without constant disconnections or huge amounts of lag. Cheers Virgin just what I always wanted to pay you for ;)
bigdavep
29-06-2007, 12:30
Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:29:05 GMT
1st 512K took 234 ms = 2188 KB/sec, approx 18029 Kbps, 17.61 Mbps
2nd 512K took 219 ms = 2337.9 KB/sec, approx 19264 Kbps, 18.81 Mbps
3rd 512K took 219 ms = 2337.9 KB/sec, approx 19264 Kbps, 18.81 Mbps
4th 512K took 218 ms = 2348.6 KB/sec, approx 19352 Kbps, 18.9 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 18977 Kbps, 18.53 Mbps
I reported in a previous post that since my speed upgrade on the 26th my speeds had also gone down, but yesterday and today my speeds have gone back to being rock solid... If you have been recently upgraded then maybe it will settle down like mine has....just a thought..
I'm in Bolton by the way..
Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:29:05 GMT
1st 512K took 234 ms = 2188 KB/sec, approx 18029 Kbps, 17.61 Mbps
2nd 512K took 219 ms = 2337.9 KB/sec, approx 19264 Kbps, 18.81 Mbps
3rd 512K took 219 ms = 2337.9 KB/sec, approx 19264 Kbps, 18.81 Mbps
4th 512K took 218 ms = 2348.6 KB/sec, approx 19352 Kbps, 18.9 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 18977 Kbps, 18.53 Mbps
I reported in a previous post that since my speed upgrade on the 26th my speeds had also gone down, but yesterday and today my speeds have gone back to being rock solid... If you have been recently upgraded then maybe it will settle down like mine has....just a thought..
I'm in Bolton by the way..
As a matter of interest,do you find the speed upgrade to be significantly different in practical terms i.e.
web-pages load faster
downloads are faster
e-mail receives and sends faster?
Tests tell me that my speed is faster but sometimes web-pages load just as slowly as before.
slowcoach
29-06-2007, 12:49
Definately improved today in Oldham.
Downloaded 2 DVD's from 2 different sites in Holland this morning at 2.35 MB/s and all with an ntl (ambit) 200 via a Router. :tu:
Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:33:33 GMT
1st 512K took 190 ms = 2694.7 KB/sec, approx 22204 Kbps, 21.68 Mbps
2nd 512K took 214 ms = 2392.5 KB/sec, approx 19714 Kbps, 19.25 Mbps
3rd 512K took 224 ms = 2285.7 KB/sec, approx 18834 Kbps, 18.39 Mbps
4th 512K took 207 ms = 2473.4 KB/sec, approx 20381 Kbps, 19.9 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 20283 Kbps, 19.81 Mbps
Treble99
29-06-2007, 16:25
I'm in Burnage, Manchester and I'm still on 10mb. Although my connection has dropped like 3 times today, hasn't done that for a long, long while so I'm hoping they're in the process up upgrading.
Deathmaker
29-06-2007, 16:54
I'm in Northern Moor, I've just rebooted the modem (NTL250) & I've been upgraded.
I've tried a few different speed tests and it's ranging from 5Mb (Cable Forum's test) to 17Mb @ BroadbandMax, average seems to be around the 14Mb mark. Upload doesn't seem to have changed (though, it does state 768Kb in the config) as I can't get up to 500Kb.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2007/06/9.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
bigdavep
29-06-2007, 16:56
As a matter of interest,do you find the speed upgrade to be significantly different in practical terms i.e.
web-pages load faster
downloads are faster
e-mail receives and sends faster?
Tests tell me that my speed is faster but sometimes web-pages load just as slowly as before.
Don't notice any difference in web browsing at all thats always been pretty good. Downloads earlier on today from blueyonder site were 2146 kb/sec so i'm happy with that.
Overall so far I'm pretty happy and for the 12 months or so I've only had 1 problem where an engineer sorted it out in 3 days. Maybe there's not many people on NTL round here....cause my speeds are nearly always the same...
saeedk786
29-06-2007, 18:16
I'm in Burnage, Manchester and I'm still on 10mb. Although my connection has dropped like 3 times today, hasn't done that for a long, long while so I'm hoping they're in the process up upgrading.
im also in burnage and saw my modem loose connection twice but still on the 10mb :confused:
i hope its soon i doubt they work over the weekend
baguley/wythenshawe has been done, working at full speed up and down on a NTL250 at least.
cpc*-bagu*-0-0-cust***.bagu.cable.ntl.com
baguley/wythenshawe has been done, working at full speed up and down on a NTL250 at least.
cpc*-bagu*-0-0-cust***.bagu.cable.ntl.com
It does seem to be better.Web pages load completely in seconds but various tests show that my connection is just producing speeds more or less consistently of around 10Mb.
Maybe after a couple of days things will settle down and it will start to produce speeds nearer to 20Mb.
Roll on the 50Mb upgrade!! LOL!! ;)
Retrovertigo
30-06-2007, 09:51
Hmmm, I'm on the baguley (fallowfield) server and still 10meg here. Did they do a sneaky test first thing and then switch back again?
I'd lay bets that Fallowfield is the most subscribed area in the country though. And because of that I can see it being problematic when it's done. As I have mentioned in another thread, I get traffic shaped in the evening even if I haven't downloaded a single thing.
spankysmagicpian
30-06-2007, 10:12
baguley/wythenshawe has been done, working at full speed up and down on a NTL250 at least.
cpc*-bagu*-0-0-cust***.bagu.cable.ntl.com
Boooo - still waiting here. They must be doing Baguley bit by bit.
It's getting closer I suppose. Might have the upgrade by Monday or Tuesday.
I'm on Baguley, and there's little or nothing here. ;)
yer same here in sale (m33) nothing
yer same here in sale (m33) nothing
The upgrade schedule still says June which means that to stay on schedule they have to complete today.
I think something must be happening as I am getting more stable speeds of 8Mb-10Mb whereas previously they would be 4Mb-8.5Mb.
All we can do is to do a hard reset each day until we notice a difference and keep checking the schedule to see if the work on the Baguley server is complete.
yer same here in sale (m33) nothing
im in m33 sale and mine got upgraded yesterday
still cant host a game?!
Retrovertigo
01-07-2007, 12:39
Tried rebooting on the offchance - no such luck in Fallowfield area. Do you think they think there are 31 days in June ;)
im in m33 sale and mine got upgraded yesterday
still cant host a game?!
out of interest what modem have you got ??
out of interest what modem have you got ??
Some area's seem to have been done some havent. I was told on Friday evening that there seems to be some problems with the upgrade in the South Manchester area. All i can do is report it to the people involved on Monday Morning.
JohnHorb
01-07-2007, 13:25
out of interest what modem have you got ??
Nothing here yet (Also M33 - Sale). As Bill C indicates, just have to be patient.
spankysmagicpian
01-07-2007, 15:07
Not to worry - it'll be worth it in the end.
BillC - who's that in your avatar?
Not to worry - it'll be worth it in the end.
BillC - who's that in your avatar?
If you are into Stargate then you will know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Tapping
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0850102/
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.scifidesktop.org.uk/WallpaperStore/Actresses/A-F/Amanda/Amanda_Tapping_014.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.scifidesktop.org.uk/Wallpaper/Actresses/A-F/Amanda/Amanda_Tapping(1).htm&h=1024&w=1280&sz=195&hl=en&start=3&sig2=uWHm2VVgIX0507l3_OHR4g&um=1&tbnid=RsSE5PM_FgYkGM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=150&ei=BLeHRsDDMoawwAGK5qgS&prev=/images%3Fq%3Damanda%2Btapping%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D 1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rlz%3D1B3GGGL_enGB226GB 226%26sa%3DN
Im in Salford, mines 20 meg as from 28th but in the day time its now around 4-6 meg and 20 meg late at night!
just done speed test what a bag of ****, ill do another one when get in from work it will show 20 meg
Date 01/07/07 16:17:53 Speed Down 323.91 Kbps ( 0.3 Mbps ) Speed Up 388.65 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps ) Port 8095 Server speedtest1.adslguide.org.uk
spankysmagicpian
01-07-2007, 16:53
If you are into Stargate then you will know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Tapping
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0850102/
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.scifidesktop.org.uk/WallpaperStore/Actresses/A-F/Amanda/Amanda_Tapping_014.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.scifidesktop.org.uk/Wallpaper/Actresses/A-F/Amanda/Amanda_Tapping(1).htm&h=1024&w=1280&sz=195&hl=en&start=3&sig2=uWHm2VVgIX0507l3_OHR4g&um=1&tbnid=RsSE5PM_FgYkGM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=150&ei=BLeHRsDDMoawwAGK5qgS&prev=/images%3Fq%3Damanda%2Btapping%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D 1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rlz%3D1B3GGGL_enGB226GB 226%26sa%3DN
Well, that's brightened my day up :) Only ever watched Stargate Atlantis.
Retrovertigo
01-07-2007, 19:34
I'd never sussed that was Amanda Tapping, Bill C - what a babe. Thinking mans crumpet for sure ;)
Just to go off topic she is currently in a web based sci-fi show called Sanctuary (www.sanctuaryforall.com) sporting a dubious but passable English accent.
Im in Salford, mines 20 meg as from 28th but in the day time its now around 4-6 meg and 20 meg late at night!
just done speed test what a bag of ****, ill do another one when get in from work it will show 20 meg
Date 01/07/07 16:17:53 Speed Down 323.91 Kbps ( 0.3 Mbps ) Speed Up 388.65 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps ) Port 8095 Server speedtest1.adslguide.org.uk
They did say there were some problems with the Baguley server and the update schedule still shows "June" so it looks like work might still be ongoing.
It's weird really. My 10Mb service has improved and stabilised with various tests giving it as 8.5Mb plus but still mothing over 10Mb.
Rebooted the modem this morning but still no change.
saeedk786
02-07-2007, 11:46
just restarted the modem, im on the baguly servers and have been upgraded to 20mb getting around 12mb down
just restarted the modem, im on the baguly servers and have been upgraded to 20mb getting around 12mb down
According to the info from the person i reported this to South Manchester should be done now.
According to the info from the person i reported this to South Manchester should be done now.
still nothing here (well 10mb) :p:
spankysmagicpian
02-07-2007, 12:53
Just logged on to Home PC and all done in M32 :-)
Getting about 2.24mb/s from news.ntlworld.com
Speedtest from this site doesn't make entertaining reading though.
1st 512K took 691 ms = 741 KB/sec, approx 6106 Kbps, 5.96 Mbps
2nd 512K took 711 ms = 720.1 KB/sec, approx 5934 Kbps, 5.79 Mbps
3rd 512K took 520 ms = 984.6 KB/sec, approx 8113 Kbps, 7.92 Mbps
4th 512K took 691 ms = 741 KB/sec, approx 6106 Kbps, 5.96 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 6565 Kbps, 6.41 Mbps
saeedk786
02-07-2007, 13:02
im in the M19 area and not disappointed with the speed as yet, im receiving the full 20mb when i downloaded sp2 from Microsoft.com :angel:
on utorrent upload hits 94kbps
spankysmagicpian
02-07-2007, 13:12
im in the M19 area and not disappointed with the speed as yet, im receiving the full 20mb when i downloaded sp2 from Microsoft.com :angel:
on utorrent upload hits 94kbps
I'm not - still getting the same as I did before - 1.16 from Microsoft site.
I really don't understand - are VM servers / kit having problems? Why would I get over 2mb/s from news.ntlworld but only a speed of 6mb/s from all of the speedtest sites I have tried?
I'm on an NTL 250 modem (blue) and linksys WRT54 router.
No increase in my part of Sale either, but then its hardly surprising.
I wonder if Virgin do get bought out, will it improve or worsen things.
saeedk786
02-07-2007, 13:22
I'm not - still getting the same as I did before - 1.16 from Microsoft site.
I really don't understand - are VM servers / kit having problems? Why would I get over 2mb/s from news.ntlworld but only a speed of 6mb/s from all of the speedtest sites I have tried?
I'm on an NTL 250 modem (blue) and linksys WRT54 router.
im using the exact same modem and router as you, when i used speedtest.net it showed speeds of 12mb but when i downloaded sp2 it was hitting max and i tired downloading a few trailers from gametrailers.com and they were hitting max speeds to
? Will make some calls
gone to complete on the schedule but still 10mb here (m41)
Still 10Mb here too - SK8 on cpc1-bagu4-0-0-custxxx.bagu.cable.ntl.com. Just tried rebooting and came back with the 10Mb config
Mags
spankysmagicpian
02-07-2007, 13:49
im using the exact same modem and router as you, when i used speedtest.net it showed speeds of 12mb but when i downloaded sp2 it was hitting max and i tired downloading a few trailers from gametrailers.com and they were hitting max speeds to
Tried one of those - managed to get 1814kb/s.
I think it's generally there but judging by the number of support tickets currently outstanding on the status page... I think the VM network is currently boffed.
saeedk786
02-07-2007, 13:50
im on this one
cpc4-with3-0-0-custxxx.bagu.cable.ntl.com
slow speeds could be because not all baguly servers have been updated yet, some people are saying theyre still on 10mb
spankysmagicpian
02-07-2007, 13:55
cpc2-stre1-0-0-custxxx.bagu.cable.ntl.com.
Never had any problems with slowness etc in over 6 years until it all started a week ago. I put that down to the network upgrades.
I didn't think it was that busy round here? I would have thought it would have a greater number of subscribers near you (Burnage / Levenshulme?)
Maybe it will settle down - if not, I'll be more than happy to have my 10mb back :tu:
Retrovertigo
02-07-2007, 13:58
Fallowfield area (M14) - just did a reboot and surprise surprise, still 10meg. You'd think they would get the job sorted while the students are away for the summer and there are less customers to use bandwidth and make the whole thing collapse in on itself.
I'm betting we have to wait a while longer yet despite what the upgrade page says.
I'm done finally (M19)! Unfotunately speeds are nowhere near what they were for the 20 meg trial last year :(
Mon, 02 Jul 2007 13:02:20 GMT
1st 512K took 457 ms = 1120.4 KB/sec, approx 9232 Kbps, 9.02 Mbps
2nd 512K took 387 ms = 1323 KB/sec, approx 10902 Kbps, 10.65 Mbps
3rd 512K took 382 ms = 1340.3 KB/sec, approx 11044 Kbps, 10.79 Mbps
4th 512K took 385 ms = 1329.9 KB/sec, approx 10958 Kbps, 10.7 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 10534 Kbps, 10.29 Mbps
To repeat this test from the source server click here.
---------- Post added at 14:05 ---------- Previous post was at 14:04 ----------
Fallowfield area (M14) - just did a reboot and surprise surprise, still 10meg. You'd think they would get the job sorted while the students are away for the summer and there are less customers to use bandwidth and make the whole thing collapse in on itself.
I'm betting we have to wait a while longer yet despite what the upgrade page says.
I'm just roud the corner from you and I'm done. Don't be in a hurry to get it. It's not very quick :rolleyes:
Deathmaker
02-07-2007, 14:06
Well, I had a day and a half of speeds from 5-17Mb, yesterday it was crawling along at 350Kbs and today isn't much better. It doesn't matter if it's browsing, speed tests or multi-threaded downloads, it's all at a snail's pace. :(
Mon, 02 Jul 2007 13:00:18 GMT
1st 512K took 5375 ms = 95.3 KB/sec, approx 785 Kbps, 0.77 Mbps
2nd 512K took 3953 ms = 129.5 KB/sec, approx 1067 Kbps, 1.04 Mbps
3rd 512K took 3453 ms = 148.3 KB/sec, approx 1222 Kbps, 1.19 Mbps
4th 512K took 4985 ms = 102.7 KB/sec, approx 846 Kbps, 0.83 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 980 Kbps, 0.96 Mbps
cpc2-stre1-0-0-custxxx.bagu.cable.ntl.com.
Maybe it will settle down - if not, I'll be more than happy to have my 10mb back :tu:
on 20mb then? *still* 10mb here (cpc4-stre2-0-0-custXXX.bagu.cable.ntl.com), can't be that far from you
Bluffdemon
02-07-2007, 14:08
I am in the chorlton area and still no 20mb for me
:dozey:
daymouse
02-07-2007, 14:17
Just tried but nothin M33 Sale
Bloody useless :mad::mad::mad:
spankysmagicpian
02-07-2007, 14:20
on 20mb then? *still* 10mb here (cpc4-stre2-0-0-custXXX.bagu.cable.ntl.com), can't be that far from you
I take it you have rebooted the modem??? I'm only on Urmston Lane so I would have thought most of us are pretty much in the same area and they would all be done together.
EDIT - just noticed I'm on stre1 you're on stre2. You must be pretty close to being done now. I wouldn't worry about it though - just tried some speedtests again and I'm not getting any more than 6.43mb connection.
I take it you have rebooted the modem??? I'm only on Urmston Lane so I would have thought most of us are pretty much in the same area and they would all be done together.
EDIT - just noticed I'm on stre1 you're on stre2. You must be pretty close to being done now. I wouldn't worry about it though - just tried some speedtests again and I'm not getting any more than 6.43mb connection.
speedtests never seem accurate for me except mornings, speeds otherwise are fine. guess we'll see later if they're doing it now or they just don't want to do the ubr i'm on :p:
spankysmagicpian
02-07-2007, 14:28
speedtests never seem accurate for me except mornings, speeds otherwise are fine. guess we'll see later if they're doing it now or they just don't want to do the ubr i'm on :p:
Might be brew time.
Good luck Dev - keep us posted!
Ok, just had 2.44mbps with 15 connections on Giganews :D
Treble99
02-07-2007, 14:33
Still nothing for me! Very frustrating. Getting speeds of around 9mb as per usual.
spankysmagicpian
02-07-2007, 14:44
Ok, just had 2.44mbps with 15 connections on Giganews :D
Looks like my max is 2.26mb/s. What's the web download speed like though?
---------- Post added at 14:44 ---------- Previous post was at 14:43 ----------
Still nothing for me! Very frustrating. Getting speeds of around 9mb as per usual.
It's probably been done then :D
Treble99
02-07-2007, 14:45
It's probably been done then :D
:)
Looks like my max is 2.26mb/s. What's the web download speed like though?
Seems the same for browsing TBH, I haven't tried any HTTP downloads yet though, my 10meg was always fairly solid @1.2mbps with Giganews. I'll try a download from apple.com and let you know.
---------- Post added at 15:15 ---------- Previous post was at 15:10 ----------
HTTP downloads from apple are giving 650kbps :(
spankysmagicpian
02-07-2007, 15:33
HTTP downloads from apple are giving 650kbps :(
Ah-Ha! So, there's a def. patten emerging here. Newsgroups etc... full speed. Http:.. not so good.
I used to work for ntl and some parts of sale come under baguley, so im guessing yous that havent been upgraded might have to wait until the end of this month, thats not 100% but its the only reason i can think of
I used to work for ntl and some parts of sale come under baguley, so im guessing yous that havent been upgraded might have to wait until the end of this month, thats not 100% but its the only reason i can think of
Yes it does come under baguley but on the updates page on the virgin media website its says complete!!!!
Well here in Warrington i have the dreaded 20 meg
Cable Modem Operation Configuration
Network Access : Allowed
Maximum Downstream Data Rate : 20480000
Maximum Upstream Data Rate : 768000
Maximum Upstream Channel Burst : 1600
Maximum Number of CPEs : 1
Modem Capability :
Concatenation Enabled,
Fragametation Enabled,
PHS Disabled
spankysmagicpian
02-07-2007, 16:44
Well here in Warrington i have the dreaded 20 meg
Cable Modem Operation Configuration Network Access : Allowed Maximum Downstream Data Rate : 20480000 Maximum Upstream Data Rate : 768000 Maximum Upstream Channel Burst : 1600 Maximum Number of CPEs : 1 Modem Capability : Concatenation Enabled, Fragametation Enabled, PHS Disabled
That's the end of your fast browsing and speedy net connection then :p: Commiserations Bill C
Bluffdemon
02-07-2007, 16:46
well i am on the cpc2-with4-0-0-custxxx.bagu.cable.ntl.com in the m21 area and still nothing and i don't expect to get it anytime soon haha
mine seems to go bad around now 5pm onwards then gets better in the AM hrs 3 meg atm 2 hrs ago was just under the 20 meg been like that since the upgrade if thats what ya call it more of a downgrade!
Given the number of customers reporting that they are still on 10Mb it would be nice to get some feedback.
If it is true that the work is completed I just wondering why this is not reflected in the speeds shown on the various broadband speed tests.
How do Virgin Media calculate the speed?
Well here in Warrington i have the dreaded 20 meg
Cable Modem Operation Configuration
Network Access : Allowed
Maximum Downstream Data Rate : 20480000
Maximum Upstream Data Rate : 768000
Maximum Upstream Channel Burst : 1600
Maximum Number of CPEs : 1
Modem Capability :
Concatenation Enabled,
Fragametation Enabled,
PHS Disabled
"lucky" for some :p: find anything out yet on the baguley updates?
"lucky" for some :p: find anything out yet on the baguley updates?
Ok according to my source they are adamant that South Manchester area is rolled out and completed. I did point him at this thread and he agrees with me its not completed. The only way that those that did the roll out will sit up and take notice is for people to report it. The problem with that is the ****y 25p per minute money grab line that is now in operation "how can you tell i am not happy about that line". Its up to you if you want to phone faults but it looks like its the only way. My contact is going to report it again tomorrow but i would suggest you do as well
Sorry for the bad news guys and girls i have tried my damndest to make people understand honest but i feel like i am talking to a brick wall.. :(
and just so you don't think i am gloating.
My lovely 20 meg
Mon, 02 Jul 2007 16:40:03 GMT
1st 512K took 11197 ms = 45.7 KB/sec, approx 377 Kbps, 0.37 Mbps
2nd 512K took 10469 ms = 48.9 KB/sec, approx 403 Kbps, 0.39 Mbps
3rd 512K took 8404 ms = 60.9 KB/sec, approx 502 Kbps, 0.49 Mbps
4th 512K took 11637 ms = 44 KB/sec, approx 363 Kbps, 0.35 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 411 Kbps, 0.4 Mbps
To repeat this test from the source server click here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/paul.marsden/newspeedtest.html?1183394447129).
---------- Post added at 18:02 ---------- Previous post was at 17:37 ----------
Ok just a point on Speedtests.
I seem to be seeing a common thread here.
If you do a speed test that is HTTP based you will get crappy speeds.
If you check you speed using a program that allows multithreaded downloads IE newsgroups, Ftp, Download managers then you will see the true speed of you connection. ?
I will do some test and post the results here.
The_real_dj
02-07-2007, 18:26
To be honest bill im getting pants speeds from pretty much everyware. A server at work thats connected to a 20meg connection (full 20meg up and down) gives me about 80k a sec on ntl, from some adsl providers i can pretty much max out the local link.
Is it related to this open support ticket??
http://status-cable.virginmedia.com/vmstatus/serviceissue.do?ticket=481907
Cheers
DJ
(ive tried ftp as well as http)
badboybubby
02-07-2007, 18:44
To be honest bill im getting pants speeds from pretty much everyware. A server at work thats connected to a 20meg connection (full 20meg up and down) gives me about 80k a sec on ntl, from some adsl providers i can pretty much max out the local link.
Is it related to this open support ticket??
http://status-cable.virginmedia.com/vmstatus/serviceissue.do?ticket=481907
Cheers
DJ
(ive tried ftp as well as http)
More or less exactly the same story here in Bury Lancs. Cant get above 7mb and of course I should be getting 20mb ish
newsgroups tested as well as http
To be honest and this is a hollow threat, I'm thinking of sacking this and going to SKY. My mate did this a few weeks ago and he is getting a steady 13mb for 15 quid a month! Why am I paying 37 quid a month again? NTL have had me for several years but not any more.
jbrennand
02-07-2007, 18:45
The only way that those that did the roll out will sit up and take notice is for people to report it. The problem with that is the ****y 25p per minute money grab line that is now in operation
.
Isn't this really a "fault" rather than "technical support". I..e you are not getting the advertised available service.
So call the freephone fault line 151.
John
Dont shoot the messenger Guys just trying to give you a heads up here.
The_real_dj
02-07-2007, 19:00
sorry bill, wasnt having a go or anything i was just wondering if all the problems were related to that sevice ticket link that i posted!! :)
Isn't this really a "fault" rather than "technical support". I..e you are not getting the advertised available service.
So call the freephone fault line 151.
John
Hi, welcome to the fault line.. this call is ABSOLUTELY FREE. Press 1 for BB support... this number is changed and now costs 25p per minute.
I'm beginning to crack... :mad:
Treble99
02-07-2007, 19:21
Looks like I've got it now! Went on Operation Config and it stated the 20xxxxxx number thing.
Although the speed is still pretty crap:
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2007/07/152.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
spankysmagicpian
02-07-2007, 19:48
Great :rolleyes:
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2007/07/7.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
swoop101
02-07-2007, 20:23
slight problem with calling 0906 bb support, I have premium rate call barring on.
wtf do they expect me to do???
still on 10meg here and I am next door to the virgin buildings.:mad:
just on to cs and they say I am showing as 20meg but they cannot put me throught to faults, getting frustrated now. :(
Just tried calling using my mobile and the *******s will not call me back on my Virgin phone, I will not pay 85p/min on my mobile to get these idiots to fix my upgrade.
Will kick their door down in the morning. :mad:
spankysmagicpian
02-07-2007, 21:37
still on 10meg here and I am next door to the virgin buildings.:mad:
I'd wait until they have all gone home and sling some cat5 across.
slight problem with calling 0906 bb support, I have premium rate call barring on.
wtf do they expect me to do???
still on 10meg here and I am next door to the virgin buildings.:mad:
just on to cs and they say I am showing as 20meg but they cannot put me throught to faults, getting frustrated now. :(
Just tried calling using my mobile and the *******s will not call me back on my Virgin phone, I will not pay 85p/min on my mobile to get these idiots to fix my upgrade.
Will kick their door down in the morning. :mad:
it may not be broke, it may be upgraded tonight / tomorrow night etc. yes i know it says it's complete when it isn't but it could be the case that the people doing the upgrades know it really isn't and it'll be done soon, give it a few days then start complaining :p:
I'd wait until they have all gone home and sling some cat5 across.
I'm going to send them two yoghurt pots and some string and they can call it a infrastructure upgrade. :)
From the service information it may well be that the upgrade has been completed but the problem is with the type of modem used.
Virgin Media admit to slow speeds for some people on the 20Mb service. There is mention that this problem does not affect Scientific Atlanta & Motorola modems so if the engineers cannot get it to work with other modems the simple answer is to give customers one of these two types of modem in place of the ones they have which clearly are not working.
The question is how much time do we give the engineers before complaining to Customer Services.
swoop101
02-07-2007, 22:46
Well the indian chappy told me I was showing as 20meg, I will see in the morning before making them put me through to a british call centre.
They are very nice and polite a few thousand miles away but they do not seem to get the message when somebody is a little 'irked'
From the service information it may well be that the upgrade has been completed but the problem is with the type of modem used.
Virgin Media admit to slow speeds for some people on the 20Mb service. There is mention that this problem does not affect Scientific Atlanta & Motorola modems so if the engineers cannot get it to work with other modems the simple answer is to give customers one of these two types of modem in place of the ones they have which clearly are not working.
The question is how much time do we give the engineers before complaining to Customer Services.
No, there are two issues here. People on 20MB with slow speeds and people still on 10MB.
I'm still on 10MB because my modem has a 10MB config. so the type of modem isn't relevant to me and people in the same position (I know my modem works with a 20MB config. I was on the 20MB trial).
People who have the 20MB config. but slow speeds might be affected my modem type.
ThinkHarder
02-07-2007, 22:53
Nothing here in SK3, cpc2-bagu6-0-0-custxxxx.bagu.cable.ntl.com, NTL250 modem.
Rebooted my modem about 20 times!
No, there are two issues here. People on 20MB with slow speeds and people still on 10MB.
I'm still on 10MB because my modem has a 10MB config. so the type of modem isn't relevant to me and people in the same position (I know my modem works with a 20MB config. I was on the 20MB trial).
People who have the 20MB config. but slow speeds might be affected my modem type.
That's interesting.
As a matter of interest, which modem do you have?
Also, how do you find out which config you have?
That's interesting.
As a matter of interest, which modem do you have?
Also, how do you find out which config you have?
NTL250
http://192.168.100.1/CmOpConfig.asp
If it says:
Maximum Downstream Data Rate : 10240000
Maximum Upstream Data Rate : 512000
you're on 10MB or:
Maximum Downstream Data Rate : 20480000
Maximum Upstream Data Rate : 768000
if you're on 20MB
Quote:
Originally Posted by swoop101 http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33616309-manchester-page-9.html#post34342336)
still on 10meg here and I am next door to the virgin buildings.:mad:
I'd wait until they have all gone home and sling some cat5 across.
it's probably tidyer to go put up an 11g/n over there and make yourself one of these to direct the wireless ;)
http://www.tritium.co.uk/FlatennaPhoto.htm
still it seems all the current speed tests are not upto the job, perhaps somone in VM tech can have put a spare rack PC server machine in one of the VM buildings and make it into the new open FTP/http upload/download test rig for the CF users to use and have some of us keep an eye on it to keep it working and clean.
i really miss the free and open server side UK FTP load servers of old were we can upload our large (bigger than the VM 55MB web space)temp test files.
---------- Post added at 23:26 ---------- Previous post was at 23:19 ----------
Nothing here in SK3, cpc2-bagu6-0-0-custxxxx.bagu.cable.ntl.com, NTL250 modem.
Rebooted my modem about 20 times!
thats strange,you would imagine these two were right next to each other in the server room
cpc2-bagu5-0-0-cust**.bagu.cable.ntl.com is done and still working fine.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2007/07/148.png
Retrovertigo
02-07-2007, 23:37
This is a joke really isn't it. Status page says update is complete, yet it seems there are a whole raft of areas yet to be done.
I mean, this is just a small sample of customers who frequent here and aren't upgraded yet.
It boggles the mind how a large company makes huge boasts about speed increases and then can't even keep to a schedule, and then claim that areas are complete that obviously aren't.
What makes matters worse is that browsing has been dire for me the last few days. And I get speed capped before I have downloaded anything!
All in all a shambles and not helped by customer services who will no doubt (in some cases) claim that the area has already been upgraded. Sigh
NTL250
http://192.168.100.1/CmOpConfig.asp
If it says:
you're on 10MB or:
if you're on 20MB
Thanks for that,Fawkes. Sadly, I'm still on 10Mb.
spankysmagicpian
03-07-2007, 00:19
Thanks for that,Fawkes. Sadly, I'm still on 10Mb.
I'd be grateful for that judging by my and others speedtests today.
I'd be grateful for that judging by my and others speedtests today.
I'm beginning to wonder if this is simply a case where the upgrade has been done but a config "hit" hasn't been sent to modems telling them to use the higher speed.
Wonder if one of the mods could check that?
spankysmagicpian
03-07-2007, 09:43
I don't think that's the case. When I logged onto home yesterday from work I was getting 2.29mb/s download from the ntl newsgroups.
All speedtests showed <3mb connection. Last night I was getting less then a 1mb connection and downloads of 0.6kb/s. Newsgroups were downloading at 456kb/s and that was only after 11pm.
Previous speedtests when I was on the 10mb, the majority of the time, showed a connection of around 9.42mb.
I think the network is currently screwed. I am sure they will fix it soon I hope.
I don't think that's the case. When I logged onto home yesterday from work I was getting 2.29mb/s download from the ntl newsgroups.
All speedtests showed <3mb connection. Last night I was getting less then a 1mb connection and downloads of 0.6kb/s. Newsgroups were downloading at 456kb/s and that was only after 11pm.
Previous speedtests when I was on the 10mb, the majority of the time, showed a connection of around 9.42mb.
I think the network is currently screwed. I am sure they will fix it soon I hope.
Have you tried this link?
http://192.168.100.1/CmOpConfig.asp
It will tell you what speed is recorded in your config file.
spankysmagicpian
03-07-2007, 10:19
Don't worry - I have been checking that for the last week until yesterday when the new cfg file was d/l showing 20mb
Don't worry - I have been checking that for the last week until yesterday when the new cfg file was d/l showing 20mb
My config file is still 10Mb.
Are you saying you have the 20Mb config file but you aren't receiving 20Mb? That's a puzzler.
I have an NTL250modem. Wonder if that's the problem.
I removed my router but there was no change. Used Internet explorer instead of Firefox but there was no change in fact Explorer produced slightly slower results.
I have a 10/100/1000 network card so if the speed is 20Mb my system (3ghz processor/2 Gb memory) should be able to cope.
spankysmagicpian
03-07-2007, 11:27
My config file is still 10Mb.
Are you saying you have the 20Mb config file but you aren't receiving 20Mb? That's a puzzler.
I have an NTL250modem. Wonder if that's the problem.
I removed my router but there was no change. Used Internet explorer instead of Firefox but there was no change in fact Explorer produced slightly slower results.
I have a 10/100/1000 network card so if the speed is 20Mb my system (3ghz processor/2 Gb memory) should be able to cope.
I don't think it's a puzzler really NTLU - seems there are lot of people in the same boat - just check some of the threads in this forum!
Guys
I am :banghead: trying to get people to do something about this. Please bear with me i have found someone who understands there is a problem and he is trying to escalate it at the moment.
Retrovertigo
03-07-2007, 11:56
For completeness (as I have posted this in the baguley thread as well. Upgraded to 20meg this morning (fallowfield M14 area) and now get slower speeds off usenet than I did on 10meg. And by quite some margin.
I used to get solid 1.17meg during the day - it struggles to maintain 800k now and that's during the day when a lot of folks aren't home. The mind boggles as to how they can be so incompetent to be honest.
£35 for 800k speed. The most expensive ISP by far? I'd say so.
edit: my speed test results (although I don't think these ever gave an accurate reading)
1st 512K took 719 ms = 712.1 KB/sec, approx 5868 Kbps, 5.73 Mbps
2nd 512K took 578 ms = 885.8 KB/sec, approx 7299 Kbps, 7.13 Mbps
3rd 512K took 563 ms = 909.4 KB/sec, approx 7493 Kbps, 7.32 Mbps
4th 512K took 469 ms = 1091.7 KB/sec, approx 8996 Kbps, 8.79 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 7414 Kbps, 7.24 Mbps
spankysmagicpian
03-07-2007, 12:28
Sadly, things don't always go right but it's how long the faults take to get rectified is the killer. Anyway, here's mine -
Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:27:37 GMT
1st 512K took 651 ms = 786.5 KB/sec, approx 6481 Kbps, 6.33 Mbps
2nd 512K took 651 ms = 786.5 KB/sec, approx 6481 Kbps, 6.33 Mbps
3rd 512K took 691 ms = 741 KB/sec, approx 6106 Kbps, 5.96 Mbps
4th 512K took 641 ms = 798.8 KB/sec, approx 6582 Kbps, 6.43 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 6413 Kbps, 6.26 Mbps
Best I can get :(
Retrovertigo
03-07-2007, 12:30
It's interesting isn't it? Offer unlimited downloads on 20meg service. Then cripple the speeds of an evening with capping, and then on top of that, don't give anywhere near the full bandwidth they claim anyway.
Ok everyone.
I have just been informed by my contact that ALL the ubr's in South Manchester have the 20 meg config loaded, He checked this himself and i can trust him completely. If after a couple of reboots you do not pick up the new config then you need to talk to customer service or faults and tell them they have to pass on your mac address and ubr to 1st line faults. So make sure before you call them that you have those details.
Please note this is not a official post however i am trying to help you get this fixed so don't shoot the messager guys :).
swoop101
03-07-2007, 12:43
Mine is flying now, Thanks Bill :clap:
8 threads 2300KB/s on Giga nice:D
Bluffdemon
03-07-2007, 13:38
At last i got mine !! Thanks for all the info on here guys its been a great help !
:tu::tu:
ThinkHarder
04-07-2007, 02:56
Working now at long last :)
saeedk786
04-07-2007, 22:44
internets been really bad for me today, its damn slow ive tried every website
Nooooo! :confused:
Wed, 04 Jul 2007 21:42:51 GMT
1st 512K took 12282 ms = 41.7 KB/sec, approx 344 Kbps, 0.34 Mbps
2nd 512K took 15000 ms = 34.1 KB/sec, approx 281 Kbps, 0.27 Mbps
3rd 512K took 13953 ms = 36.7 KB/sec, approx 302 Kbps, 0.29 Mbps
4th 512K took 13906 ms = 36.8 KB/sec, approx 303 Kbps, 0.3 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 308 Kbps, 0.3 Mbps
Treble99
05-07-2007, 16:07
internets been really bad for me today, its damn slow ive tried every website
Nooooo! :confused:
Wed, 04 Jul 2007 21:42:51 GMT
1st 512K took 12282 ms = 41.7 KB/sec, approx 344 Kbps, 0.34 Mbps
2nd 512K took 15000 ms = 34.1 KB/sec, approx 281 Kbps, 0.27 Mbps
3rd 512K took 13953 ms = 36.7 KB/sec, approx 302 Kbps, 0.29 Mbps
4th 512K took 13906 ms = 36.8 KB/sec, approx 303 Kbps, 0.3 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 308 Kbps, 0.3 Mbps
Same for me, been getting just over 1mb speeds. Pretty sick of these speeds to be honest, I've never had over 12mb since the upgrade at any time of the day.
Looks like i'm sorted... for now
Thu, 5 Jul 2007 17:02:47 UTC
1st 512K took 329 ms = 1556.2 KB/sec, approx 12823 Kbps, 12.52 Mbps
2nd 512K took 265 ms = 1932.1 KB/sec, approx 15921 Kbps, 15.55 Mbps
3rd 512K took 297 ms = 1723.9 KB/sec, approx 14205 Kbps, 13.87 Mbps
4th 512K took 219 ms = 2337.9 KB/sec, approx 19264 Kbps, 18.81 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 15553 Kbps, 15.19 Mbps
badboybubby
05-07-2007, 18:09
I'm in Bury Lancs. I have 20mg in my config file on my NTL200 Modem and this is the best I can get!
Thu, 5 Jul 2007 17:07:55 UTC
1st 512K took 735 ms = 696.6 KB/sec, approx 5740 Kbps, 5.61 Mbps
2nd 512K took 562 ms = 911 KB/sec, approx 7507 Kbps, 7.33 Mbps
3rd 512K took 688 ms = 744.2 KB/sec, approx 6132 Kbps, 5.99 Mbps
4th 512K took 859 ms = 596 KB/sec, approx 4911 Kbps, 4.8 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 6073 Kbps, 5.93 Mbps
Never seen anything above 8meg since the so called upgrade
Do I log this as a fault?
Ps. Its the same on Newsgroups as well as HTTP
I'm in Bury Lancs. I have 20mg in my config file on my NTL200 Modem and this is the best I can get!
Thu, 5 Jul 2007 17:07:55 UTC
1st 512K took 735 ms = 696.6 KB/sec, approx 5740 Kbps, 5.61 Mbps
2nd 512K took 562 ms = 911 KB/sec, approx 7507 Kbps, 7.33 Mbps
3rd 512K took 688 ms = 744.2 KB/sec, approx 6132 Kbps, 5.99 Mbps
4th 512K took 859 ms = 596 KB/sec, approx 4911 Kbps, 4.8 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 6073 Kbps, 5.93 Mbps
Never seen anything above 8meg since the so called upgrade
Do I log this as a fault?
Ps. Its the same on Newsgroups as well as HTTP
Ring up for a fault... you may need a 250/255 modem.
spankysmagicpian
05-07-2007, 21:30
I'm on a 250 modem and... cant get better than this in the evening and that's with no downloading.
Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:30:28 GMT
1st 512K took 625 ms = 819.2 KB/sec, approx 6750 Kbps, 6.59 Mbps
2nd 512K took 610 ms = 839.3 KB/sec, approx 6916 Kbps, 6.75 Mbps
3rd 512K took 515 ms = 994.2 KB/sec, approx 8192 Kbps, 8 Mbps
4th 512K took 782 ms = 654.7 KB/sec, approx 5395 Kbps, 5.27 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 6813 Kbps, 6.65 Mbps
To repeat this test from the source server click here.
I've been upgraded. My config file is now 20Mb.
It's amazing however how much speeds vary for downloading using the Cableforum speed tests:-
Fri, 06 Jul 2007 13:07:11 GMT
1st 512K took 515 ms = 994.2 KB/sec, approx 8192 Kbps, 8 Mbps
2nd 512K took 219 ms = 2337.9 KB/sec, approx 19264 Kbps, 18.81 Mbps
3rd 512K took 250 ms = 2048 KB/sec, approx 16876 Kbps, 16.48 Mbps
4th 512K took 187 ms = 2738 KB/sec, approx 22561 Kbps, 22.03 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 16723 Kbps, 16.33 Mbps
Even when you repeat the test a few seconds apart the results can be tremendously varied.
spankysmagicpian
06-07-2007, 14:33
I tried mine last night at about 1:30am - I got anything between 3mb and 17mb and that was on the basis of around 6 tests.
saeedk786
06-07-2007, 20:54
Getting around 6mb today, i get the full 20mb before 12pm after that i get wayy under 10mb
Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:52:54 GMT
1st 512K took 578 ms = 885.8 KB/sec, approx 7299 Kbps, 7.13 Mbps
2nd 512K took 641 ms = 798.8 KB/sec, approx 6582 Kbps, 6.43 Mbps
3rd 512K took 672 ms = 761.9 KB/sec, approx 6278 Kbps, 6.13 Mbps
4th 512K took 641 ms = 798.8 KB/sec, approx 6582 Kbps, 6.43 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 6685 Kbps, 6.53 Mbps
Ive noticed that after the update, my Download and Upload lights keep flashing occasionally even when my pc is off
spankysmagicpian
07-07-2007, 12:22
Mine - M32
Sat, 07 Jul 2007 11:21:23 GMT
1st 512K took 953 ms = 537.3 KB/sec, approx 4427 Kbps, 4.32 Mbps
2nd 512K took 532 ms = 962.4 KB/sec, approx 7930 Kbps, 7.74 Mbps
3rd 512K took 1265 ms = 404.7 KB/sec, approx 3335 Kbps, 3.26 Mbps
4th 512K took 782 ms = 654.7 KB/sec, approx 5395 Kbps, 5.27 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 5272 Kbps, 5.15 Mbps
wyngriff
07-07-2007, 14:47
M22
Sat, 07 Jul 2007 13:42:34 GMT
1st 512K took 1141 ms = 448.7 KB/sec, approx 3697 Kbps, 3.61 Mbps
2nd 512K took 500 ms = 1024 KB/sec, approx 8438 Kbps, 8.24 Mbps
3rd 512K took 453 ms = 1130.2 KB/sec, approx 9313 Kbps, 9.09 Mbps
4th 512K took 734 ms = 697.5 KB/sec, approx 5747 Kbps, 5.61 Mbps
Overall Average Speed = approx 6799 Kbps, 6.64 Mbps
badboybubby
09-07-2007, 14:40
Ring up for a fault... you may need a 250/255 modem.
Called today to log as a fault and was told that the 200 modem is pefectly capable of reaching 20mb. I said ok then please do what you have to do to 'fix' my connection.
The lady in India then messed about for so long that she had to call me back after 10 minutes (Virgin call back policy I guess). I think at this point she was sending the 20mg configuration file to my Cable Modem (I'd already told her previously that its registered as 20mg there!)
When she realised that she couldnt get me about 6mb she said that the cause of the problem was 'traffic shaping'. I said but you must be mistaken as its actually 2pm in the UK and the shaping doesn't kick in until 4pm! Deerrrrrrrrr
I gave VM the benefit of the doubt by using their outsourced call centre. They just failed me miserably!
WTF do I do now? Cancel??? I can't really see any other way, can you?:mad:
spankysmagicpian
09-07-2007, 15:03
I think everyone is pretty much in the same boat, we're all just waiting.. and waiting..and waiting.. and waiting....
Retrovertigo
09-07-2007, 17:14
Called today to log as a fault and was told that the 200 modem is pefectly capable of reaching 20mb. I said ok then please do what you have to do to 'fix' my connection.
The lady in India then messed about for so long that she had to call me back after 10 minutes (Virgin call back policy I guess). I think at this point she was sending the 20mg configuration file to my Cable Modem (I'd already told her previously that its registered as 20mg there!)
When she realised that she couldnt get me about 6mb she said that the cause of the problem was 'traffic shaping'. I said but you must be mistaken as its actually 2pm in the UK and the shaping doesn't kick in until 4pm! Deerrrrrrrrr
I gave VM the benefit of the doubt by using their outsourced call centre. They just failed me miserably!
WTF do I do now? Cancel??? I can't really see any other way, can you?:mad:
You pretty much verbatim had the same experience as me. The guy I spoke to thought he was being clever and sent the config file to my modem despite me telling him it read as 20meg already and I knew he thought he was fixing it.
Again, they needed to call me back because of the length of the call. I guess on the plus side, that with so many people right about there being a problem, the 25p a min call cost they keep refunding may well bite them on the ass.
My full story is in the Baguley thread if you are interested.
badboybubby
09-07-2007, 18:19
Retrovertigo (update)
I appear to be getting 20mb from Newsgroups (I dont really use them much so I registered a free trial with one and managed to download a file at 2mb per second (I guess thats 20meg)
However, I cant see anything above 7 or 8meg via HTTP protocol and to be honest its pi55ing me off.
Is it the case that a Ambit 200 Modem doesn't support speeds above 10mb for HTTP Protocol?
bbb
deathball
09-07-2007, 18:59
This is what I have been getting since I was put on 20mb.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2007/07/86.png
This is what I have been getting since I was put on 20mb.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2007/07/86.png
do the Roubaix speed test, i get ~600kbps on the london, ~8mb to roubaix
I think the whole sry thing is shocking,20meg upgrade and i can't even meet half the speed of my old 10 meg plus i'm paying more.
I have an engineer coming tomorrow to try and rectify the problem,i can't see what he can do,i'm considering what to do about virgin as requards to the future i don't see any hope staying with them,37 pound for a service that doesn't work just don't work.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2007/07/85.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
Absolulety disgracefull.
BigLarry
09-07-2007, 19:43
£37.00 a month for something that struggles to do simple stuff like watching videos on YouTube without constant lags and buffering.
Absolute pile of crap.
Retrovertigo
09-07-2007, 20:14
Retrovertigo (update)
I appear to be getting 20mb from Newsgroups (I dont really use them much so I registered a free trial with one and managed to download a file at 2mb per second (I guess thats 20meg)
However, I cant see anything above 7 or 8meg via HTTP protocol and to be honest its pi55ing me off.
Is it the case that a Ambit 200 Modem doesn't support speeds above 10mb for HTTP Protocol?
bbb
Hmmm, what area are you in? I use giganews and still can't get above 800k ish. That's despite being able to get over 1meg when on a 10meg connection.
Out of curiosity this is the speed test they directed me to http://f1test.notlong.com/ it's basically a file they ask you to download and no mater what the guy tried I couldn't get above 1meg speed. It is honestly like they haven't updated me, although my modem says otherwise.
That above file has given me my fastest speed results yet though for anyone that fancies trying it.
Of course, I would appreciate anyone having engineers visit etc, keep thsi thread updated. And also the baguley one - maybe they should be merged?
that file link is interesting,im on baguley/ntl250 and im currently getting 50kBytes(not bits)/s average there, the exact same speeds im seeing ftping/html from the VM users website servers, and a full 760K up as expected.
its usually assumed you would get by far the best speeds from the internal servers, but its clear here we are no were near maxing our NTL 250/20Mbit using the internal VM network connected servers, why is that?, any idea's VM tech's...
to be clear, i can currently also get the full 20Mbit speeds from external sites at many times of the day,but never above 50KB using internal VM servers.
that file link is interesting,im on baguley/ntl250 and im currently getting 50kBytes(not bits)/s average there, the exact same speeds im seeing ftping/html from the VM users website servers, and a full 760K up as expected.
its usually assumed you would get by far the best speeds from the internal servers, but its clear here we are no were near maxing our NTL 250/20Mbit using the internal VM network connected servers, why is that?, any idea's VM tech's...
to be clear, i can currently also get the full 20Mbit speeds from external sites at many times of the day,but never above 50KB using internal VM servers.
depends on what the VM user website servers are connected to, if they're all stuck through a 100mb line it'll only take 5 20mb users until speeds slow down which is hardly anyone. can't see them being on a 100mb line though, maybe a 1gbit line
spankysmagicpian
09-07-2007, 22:02
its usually assumed you would get by far the best speeds from the internal servers, but its clear here we are no were near maxing our NTL 250/20Mbit using the internal VM network connected servers, why is that?, any idea's VM tech's...
Not a tech but I can get full pelt (2.35mb/s) using news.ntlworld.com, using 30 connections at 2am in the morning. It might only be a small window of opportunity but it's a window :)
Just an update on the engineer.
He change my old modem for a new 255 modem,and fingers crossed for the time being i'm running full speed 2.4Mb/s
Retrovertigo
10-07-2007, 18:14
Just an update on the engineer.
He change my old modem for a new 255 modem,and fingers crossed for the time being i'm running full speed 2.4Mb/s
That actually makes me feel sick rather than giving me hope. I was given the runaround, told I didn't need a new modem. Wasn't offered an engineer, and finally told it was a network problem.
If it's true that modems are curing the problem then it means more phonecalls and listening to someone who can't speak english properly have me explain myself a dozen times in the hope of getting something sorted. Sigh.
marleyboy
10-07-2007, 18:14
I live in Blackley, Manchester and since its been introduced, My 20meg service with Virgin was so poor, I had to drop to 4meg, just to get 1 meg. Ive had enough of engineers calling round, telling me that the fault is on Virgins side (Erm YES I KNOW!).
6 weeks and 25p a min, for some Indian woman to tell me that my 20meg is only kicking 101kbps, for the past 6 weeks, due to a nationwide problem, but that she cannot say how long it will take to repair, be that 6 more weeks or months, but I should continue to pay for it anyway.
Its cost me over £30 of calls, 2 days off work for engineers, and 6 weeks of dial up speed, to be told "oh yes there is a problem".
They deny anything about Throttling, claiming they have never heard of it, that aside, I have been assured I am not being throttled (I dont download enough).
The service does pick up after midnight, but as I work all day and dont get home til 6pm, what use is that to me??
Hmmm, what area are you in? I use giganews and still can't get above 800k ish. That's despite being able to get over 1meg when on a 10meg connection.
Out of curiosity this is the speed test they directed me to http://f1test.notlong.com/ it's basically a file they ask you to download and no mater what the guy tried I couldn't get above 1meg speed. It is honestly like they haven't updated me, although my modem says otherwise.
That above file has given me my fastest speed results yet though for anyone that fancies trying it.
Of course, I would appreciate anyone having engineers visit etc, keep thsi thread updated. And also the baguley one - maybe they should be merged?
I've been experiencing a very similar thing here. I can't seem to breach 10mb speeds for more than few secs at a time. That file peaked at about 1.47mbps for about a second but averages just over 1mbps. I'm on an Ambit 200 modem, and i'm starting to think it can't cope.
That actually makes me feel sick rather than giving me hope. I was given the runaround, told I didn't need a new modem. Wasn't offered an engineer, and finally told it was a network problem.
If it's true that modems are curing the problem then it means more phonecalls and listening to someone who can't speak english properly have me explain myself a dozen times in the hope of getting something sorted. Sigh.
I was told exactly the same thing about the modem to,the engineer was here only 5 minutes,he told me straight away it was the modem and that it couldn't cope with 20 meg so i hope this helps ppl here.
yes, i see your point, but you are using massive 30 connections, wereas we are talking a single connection for FTP/HTTP and that should be enough on the internal VM network to VM users at most times of the day, its currently not, as iv been testing it at all times of the day since they initialised 20Mbit on mine.
theres something very odd going on as regards the CAT5 wireing or some setting inside the Baguley network kit is set far to low, someone should take a look sometime perhaps.
Retrovertigo
10-07-2007, 20:01
So what is the truth then? We have had several people here claim that the ambit200 could do 20meg - although I have no idea if that was personal experience, or someone who worked for NTL just stating it because they believed it to be true.
I know I am not going to settle now until I get a new modem. But what is the best course of action while they claim network problems. Will they even want to send an engineer?
spankysmagicpian
10-07-2007, 21:34
yes, i see your point, but you are using massive 30 connections, wereas we are talking a single connection for FTP/HTTP and that should be enough on the internal VM network to VM users at most times of the day, its currently not, as iv been testing it at all times of the day since they initialised 20Mbit on mine.
theres something very odd going on as regards the CAT5 wireing or some setting inside the Baguley network kit is set far to low, someone should take a look sometime perhaps.
Yes I know it should be able to acheive full speed on the internal network, I'm in full agreement with you. I was trying to stress that the only way I can obtain that is at a quiet time and with a ridiculous amount of connections.
Retrovertigo
11-07-2007, 00:17
Well, one last bitch before I go to bed. I have left any newsgroups bits and bobs I wanted until after midnight just to test and see if I could match others with better speeds. And whaddya know, still only getting 700-800k off the newsgroups.
I guess this means it can't be just my modem as I always got a rock solid 1.17MB/s before the upgrade. Who knew broadband could be the cause of so much stress.
slowcoach
11-07-2007, 00:35
Tonight, come midnight and it's back to 2.33 MB/s like magic.
This has to be something to do with the curfew setup, been on slowest speeds ever all day then pow!, curfew over and into top gear.
What's the betting that it is the curfew setup and not the upgrade which has screwed the system all along.
spankysmagicpian
11-07-2007, 09:15
I reckon they might as well do away with the Traffic Management for us up here in Baguelyland as no one can reach the speeds in order to break the 3Gb limit anyway :D
slowcoach
11-07-2007, 09:48
Tonight, come midnight and it's back to 2.33 MB/s like magic.
I guess they were working on the local network yesterday because this morning it is still running at 2.33 MB/s with 1 connection, downloading from Holland at the moment and it is purring like a kitten. :tu:
Ambit 200, way to go. :p:
i got a a better service on 10 meg where i used to get 9meg ALL of the time, now i have 20 meg im struggleing to hit 4meg and STILL CANT HOST A GAME, i have the 250 modem btw
Oldham area. Previously on 4MB with a very reliable connection (through the STB) In March I moved up to 10MB and again getting quite a good service - averaging about 8MB.
However for the last fortnight I have been on appalling speeds of 0.5MB
At first I was thinking it was down to the reported modem problem since I couldn't be being throttled since I'm not normally on till after 20:00 and the low speed was present from the start.
Today however I have been working from home and able to check how the speed has varied throughout the day.
This morning I was getting about 18MB!!
At about 14:00 this had dropped to 1.5MB
Now I'm back to getting about 0.5MB which I guess I'll be on for the rest of the evening
UBR problems or not this all started the weekend they decided to upgrade to 20MB so not very impressed at paying £37pm for this!!!
Oldham here too. Speeds have been absolutely appalling since the so called 'upgrade'. I'm lucky to see 1Mb/s nevermind 20Mb/s!!
spankysmagicpian
11-07-2007, 22:51
Just checked mine (not on Speedtest!) and managed to reach the dizzy heights of 898 kbps.
FFS - 20mb!?
http://mslhr.visualware.com/myspeed/db/report?id=150846
slowcoach
11-07-2007, 23:25
I'm in the OL8 area.
Don't usually download during the curfew but just checked after reading these posts,
UK Server with 5 connections 2.33 MB/s.
Dutch Server with 5 connections 2.33 MB/s.
Outside the curfew I can usually get these same speeds with only 1 connection.
What I have noticed is that I can get those sort of speeds early in the morning from places such as Australia, Canada and Brazil with one connection as well.
In the past speeds from these faraway places used to be really pathetic.
Despite the upgrade which turns your usual connection into a super-highway the traffic on the network slows it down and from second to second the speed of your internet connection changes.
Doing the Cableforum speed test shows just how much the speed can change within a few seconds.
Customers are looking for reliable and consistent high speed but it's doubtful if that will be achieved.
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