View Full Version : Email Watchdog
right i thought i would email watch dog coz of all the cock ups. VM are doing at the moment anyone wishes to email them please feal free to do so with you complaints the more the merrer make them be noticed and maybe someone will do somthink instead of speding all there money on getting more victim customers
EAMIL watchdog@bbc.co.uk
chickendippers
19-06-2007, 23:53
There's not anything Watchdog can actually do, if you're concerned that you're not receiving a service, perhaps OFCOM would be a more appropriate organisation to lobby?
they probably have a gagging order on the BBC anyway.
My all means complain to Watchdog. I have put in a complain with the Advertising Standards Authority as well, since VM are clearly not living up to what they advertise. In particular, their basic BB package is not even "broadband" any more, since limits imposed by traffic shaping but it below the accepted standard definition.
PC_Arcade
20-06-2007, 13:53
My all means complain to Watchdog. I have put in a complain with the Advertising Standards Authority as well, since VM are clearly not living up to what they advertise. In particular, their basic BB package is not even "broadband" any more, since limits imposed by traffic shaping but it below the accepted standard definition.
Eh?? How do you work that one out? It gets halved to 1mb doesn't it?
Well over the 512kb generally accepted as Broadband.
I have sent an email to Watchdog tried to call them. Even called ofcom or what ever they are. No-one seemed to want to help.
jcardiff
20-06-2007, 16:27
you will need an actual physical complaint for ofcom backed up with dates and proof, ofcom generally are only involved with major complaints regarding broadband as they aren't staffed well enough to cope with the additional workload they were given when oftels responsibilties were handed to them.
watchdog will take note of complaints but they generally don't get back to each person who complains and also it was only recently that they had a show about broadband providers, however they will keep your complaints as long as they aren't just rants without proof and any complaint will be added to whatever files they have on virgin.
you can try which! also.
whatever the problem is or are, you will need to make sure you're complaint makes sense and isn't a rant as they recieve an awful lot of mail saying "I hate so and so, they treat me bad and I deserve better" and while that could be true its not an actual fault that anyone could be held responsible for
Eh?? How do you work that one out? It gets halved to 1mb doesn't it?
Well over the 512kb generally accepted as Broadband.
There was a link posted to a web site that explained it, but I cant find it now. Anyway, one I think the M package, if you want to say under the limit Virgin have set for "reasonable/fair use", you would be limited to less than 250Kb/sec (the internationally accepted minimum for BB) from 4pm to 12am. That could be constant downloading speed (e.g. web radio at 160k would exceed it IIRC) or average speed over the entire period. Either way, not technically BB.
so you are saying then that broadband is only 2mb upwards then?
from what i have seen 512kbps is the minimum to be defined as broadband in the uk
No he isn't saying that. He is saying that the fastest speed you can use to download at a constant rate from 4pm all the way to 12am without incurring the shaping system is below the accepted definition of BB. Which by his post is under 250Kb/sec. Yes you can download at 2Mb/sec, but if you did this constantly, you would get shaped. Shaping is what he talking about avoiding, and the only way to avoid is to have a constant download less than what is classified as broadband speed.
xspeedyx
21-06-2007, 18:09
the last three post confused the hell out of me lol :)
You'll kick yourself later ;)
the last three post confused the hell out of me lol :)
Look at it this way. You buy a "fast car" which can do 200MPH. However, the manufacturer puts a chip in the engine that slows it down to 50MPH if you spend more than a few minutes driving fast.
You want to drive a few hundred miles today so you have to keep it down to 30MPH all the way or the chip will kick in. It's not really a "fast car" any more, is it?
the last three post confused the hell out of me lol :)
how did mine confuse? he states that minimum speed for broadband is 250Kbps download which is equivalent to a 2meg service
broadband to be called broadband in the uk is normally 512kbps
Look at it this way. You buy a "fast car" which can do 200MPH. However, the manufacturer puts a chip in the engine that slows it down to 50MPH if you spend more than a few minutes driving fast.
You want to drive a few hundred miles today so you have to keep it down to 30MPH all the way or the chip will kick in. It's not really a "fast car" any more, is it?
It's not winning your argument Mojo, even with traffic shaping the lowest package is halved to double the recognised Broadband speed standard.
If you can prove otherwise though, please enlighten us.
christopherw
23-06-2007, 11:20
Look at it this way. You buy a "fast car" which can do 200MPH. However, the manufacturer puts a chip in the engine that slows it down to 50MPH if you spend more than a few minutes driving fast.
You want to drive a few hundred miles today so you have to keep it down to 30MPH all the way or the chip will kick in. It's not really a "fast car" any more, is it?
Very good analogy, I'm sure I'll be using that one myself in the future
right i thought i would email watch dog coz of all the cock ups. VM are doing at the moment anyone wishes to email them please feal free to do so with you complaints the more the merrer make them be noticed and maybe someone will do somthink instead of speding all there money on getting more victim customers
EAMIL watchdog@bbc.co.uk
Ive emailed them and told them what a great service im receiving ;)
I dont think I got the hang of it? :D
rogerdraig
23-06-2007, 14:28
It's not winning your argument Mojo, even with traffic shaping the lowest package is halved to double the recognised Broadband speed standard.
If you can prove otherwise though, please enlighten us.
because you cant even download at half the speed and still not get throtled
the only way not to get throtled while using your always on bb is to stay under the speed recognised as being bb
its not that hard to follow
how did mine confuse? he states that minimum speed for broadband is 250Kbps download which is equivalent to a 2meg service
Er... no, it is a 0.25meg service. 2 mega bits = 200 kilo bytes approx, 0.25meg = 25KBps approx.
Dual ISDN is 128Kbps, and the internationally accepted standard for broadband is twice that. Most countries expect more though, so yes here the standard is 512k and in many places it is now at least 2meg.
---------- Post added at 05:17 ---------- Previous post was at 05:15 ----------
the only way not to get throtled while using your always on bb is to stay under the speed recognised as being bb
That's it. NTL are effectively saying that the "acceptable use" of their product is not as broadband, but rather as narrow band.
Even if you just accept the throttling, using the connection as "broadband" becomes next to impossible when you consider what people actually want to do with it these days.
because you cant even download at half the speed and still not get throtled
the only way not to get throtled while using your always on bb is to stay under the speed recognised as being bb
its not that hard to follow
No, that is wrong, the best way to stay under the radar is to download outside the STM window.
It's not hard to follow.
tweetypie/8
24-06-2007, 09:51
the last three post confused the hell out of me lol :)
and me !! :disturbd:
rogerdraig
25-06-2007, 21:02
No, that is wrong, the best way to stay under the radar is to download outside the STM window.
It's not hard to follow.#
sigh
Most people only use their computer between 5 and 12 the rest of the time they are working eating or in bed
trying to say other wise is like saying you trip to work time is being halved as they have raised the motorway speed to 140 between 12 midnight and 8 am
problem being you dont go to work till 8 30 am and come how at 5 30
not exactly much use is it
homealone
25-06-2007, 22:35
#
sigh
Most people only use their computer between 5 and 12 the rest of the time they are working eating or in bed
trying to say other wise is like saying you trip to work time is being halved as they have raised the motorway speed to 140 between 12 midnight and 8 am
problem being you dont go to work till 8 30 am and come how at 5 30
not exactly much use is it
Yes, so a way has to be found whereby we can all fairly share the resource available at those peak times.
- your allegory isn't really accurate, the ultimate speed doesn't increase after midnight, or before 1600, rather the speed is reduced at peak times if you exceed the limits - bit like you only get road works if you are in an hurry, I suppose, but too many people are trying to access the service at peak times.....
I'm not defending how VM have dealt with that, it always has been a shared service, and I won't disagree it could have been managed in a better way, however, the fact remains the resource is finite and in the short term we are going to have to deal with it, or consider the other options. :)
rogerdraig
26-06-2007, 13:47
Yes, so a way has to be found whereby we can all fairly share the resource available at those peak times.
- your allegory isn't really accurate, the ultimate speed doesn't increase after midnight, or before 1600, rather the speed is reduced at peak times if you exceed the limits - bit like you only get road works if you are in an hurry, I suppose, but too many people are trying to access the service at peak times.....
I'm not defending how VM have dealt with that, it always has been a shared service, and I won't disagree it could have been managed in a better way, however, the fact remains the resource is finite and in the short term we are going to have to deal with it, or consider the other options. :)
then they shouldnt be advertising it as 20meg i am fine with contention and sharing but if they say you can use 20 meg then they should provide it
joglynne
26-06-2007, 19:37
Originally Posted by rogermevans >> then they shouldnt be advertising it as 20meg i am fine with contention and sharing but if they say you can use 20 meg then they should provide it.
I would not want to enter the debate normally but this statment regarding Virgins failure to keep a promise really gets me.
Virgin Media do not promise to provide you with 20MB they clearly advertise Size: XL (up to 20Mb)
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/websales/service.do?id=2
homealone
26-06-2007, 20:17
then they shouldnt be advertising it as 20meg i am fine with contention and sharing but if they say you can use 20 meg then they should provide it
They have every intention of providing it, just not to everybody at once, 24/7, that is impossible without effectively giving every subscriber a leased line - I, for one, am not prepared to pay the price that would take.
I would not want to enter the debate normally but this statment regarding Virgins failure to keep a promise really gets me.
Virgin Media do not promise to provide you with 20MB they clearly advertise
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/websales/service.do?id=2
exactly :tu:
rogerdraig
26-06-2007, 21:00
I would not want to enter the debate normally but this statment regarding Virgins failure to keep a promise really gets me.
Virgin Media do not promise to provide you with 20MB they clearly advertise
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/websales/service.do?id=2
yes exactly like this is clear taken from thier site
quote
Total freedom
Unlike some of our competitors, you get unlimited° downloads as a basic right so you can load up on music, films...whatever you're into.
unquote
exactly how does total freedom equate to if you want to download these you need to either
sit up all night
leave your computer on unattended ( which may be perfectly safe but cant see any one advising you to do so )
or watch it crawl after the first half hour
i beg to differ that they advertise it clearly
what they should advertise is 2 meg with a 30 minute boost every 4 hours for the majority of users
homealone
26-06-2007, 22:22
yes exactly like this is clear taken from thier site
quote
Total freedom
Unlike some of our competitors, you get unlimited° downloads as a basic right so you can load up on music, films...whatever you're into.
unquote
exactly how does total freedom equate to if you want to download these you need to either
sit up all night
leave your computer on unattended ( which may be perfectly safe but cant see any one advising you to do so )
or watch it crawl after the first half hour
i beg to differ that they advertise it clearly
what they should advertise is 2 meg with a 30 minute boost every 4 hours for the majority of users
can you explain more about your final paragraph, sorry, I'm not taking the micky, but shouldn't it be 5 meg not 2?
- However I'd agree with you, in principle, if your advert had an 'during peak times' disclaimer, at the end ;) :)
Look at it this way. You buy a "fast car" which can do 200MPH. However, the manufacturer puts a chip in the engine that slows it down to 50MPH if you spend more than a few minutes driving fast.
You want to drive a few hundred miles today so you have to keep it down to 30MPH all the way or the chip will kick in. It's not really a "fast car" any more, is it?
Yes, it is.
Because guess what, you can drive it at 200MPH until the chip kicks in, and then when it does, you can drive the rest of the few hundred miles at 50MPH, there's no need to ever drop below 50MPH, and you'd be liable to be taken away by the men in white coats for thinking you can only drive it at 30MPH.
You're reading the STM completely wrong, it's NOT a "you're in big trouble if you go over this much", you CAN max your connection all the time without breaking any AUP or FUP, it's just that after a certain amount, your connection gets slower.
If you want to go make stupidly flawed analogies like that then go head over to some ADSL forums where they actually DO have hard caps that mean you can't download at over 256k all the time, because they sure as hell don't apply on cable.
because you cant even download at half the speed and still not get throtled
the only way not to get throtled while using your always on bb is to stay under the speed recognised as being bb
its not that hard to follow
when you're throttled the connection still functions at a rate that is considered to be twice the minimum for broadband, where's the problem?
I can't believe I am reading some of the replies in here!
If you paid to have some work done on your car and it wasn't done properly, what would you do?
If you paid for some work on your house and it wasn't done correctly, what woud you do?
You would most certainly complain and demand that it's upto scratch.
Why on earth then should these people who are not getting near on full speed not complain about a service they are paying for? Most people I know on VM internet don't get anywhere near their full speed, unless they are dl via newsgroups and tbh of late I am only maxing out at 7mb not 10 on newsgroups too.
We pay good money for this service. Complain away.
L
** EDIT ** And my speeds have dropped to the levels mentioned without being traffic shaped.
I can't believe I am reading some of the replies in here!
If you paid to have some work done on your car and it wasn't done properly, what would you do?
If you paid for some work on your house and it wasn't done correctly, what woud you do?
You would most certainly complain and demand that it's upto scratch.
Why on earth then should these people who are not getting near on full speed not complain about a service they are paying for? Most people I know on VM internet don't get anywhere near their full speed, unless they are dl via newsgroups and tbh of late I am only maxing out at 7mb not 10 on newsgroups too.
We pay good money for this service. Complain away.
L
** EDIT ** And my speeds have dropped to the levels mentioned without being traffic shaped.
as said several times, you pay for a shared service. you pay penuts compared to what it costs for your connection compared to what it can cost to provide the dedicated bandwidth for you
rogerdraig
27-06-2007, 12:26
can you explain more about your final paragraph, sorry, I'm not taking the micky, but shouldn't it be 5 meg not 2?
- However I'd agree with you, in principle, if your advert had an 'during peak times' disclaimer, at the end ;) :)
lol wont argue over the 5 or 2 and i would be fine with your disclaimer ;)
but the point is that what they advertise or how they BOLDLY advertise it now is not what we get
most of us who moan would shut up if they advertised it fairly and i think if everyone just put up with what compinies try to get away with this country would be far worse of than it is
consumer should be king and it shouldnt be that thier only choice is to leave
---------- Post added at 12:26 ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 ----------
when you're throttled the connection still functions at a rate that is considered to be twice the minimum for broadband, where's the problem?
see privious posts to see why ;)
see privious posts to see why ;)
You mean "see previous posts for a completely stupid explanation that has no real world basis and would get laughed at by ofcom, watchdog, and just about everyone else"
rogerdraig
27-06-2007, 15:01
You mean "see previous posts for a completely stupid explanation that has no real world basis and would get laughed at by ofcom, watchdog, and just about everyone else"
ofcom may laugh at but thats mainly because they are useless as a watchdog
they advertise an always on faster than anyone else, and are at pains to point out this is the case no matter how far from an exchange you are and that you have complete freedom to down load what you want i could go on
but don't point out you cant do this in the normal hours that most people get to use their computer and that if you have the teremitty to try you will be capped in real terms in the amount you can download in that period to less than what you can on a 512 line
however if your happy with that bully for you but why do seem to think we all should be
in real terms in the amount you can download in that period to less than what you can on a 512 line
Seeing as your connection IS NEVER LIMITED TO LESS THAN 512K how can you "in real terms" download less than you can on a 512k line? It IS NOT a hard cap, you can download as much as you like, just after so long, you can only do it at 512k (on the lowest package) at no point do you ever need to drop below 512k.
I like how everyone bitches about virgin making false claims and yet here people are doing exactly the same. But I guess it's ok for them to, the customer is always right!
jcardiff
27-06-2007, 16:12
ofcom may laugh at but thats mainly because they are useless as a watchdog
since they were given oftels roles combined with their own they have become some what useless and only take action when they are told to, they generally take little action when something is reported in regards to phone and internet and when they do its only when mass problems are recognised or the papers get involved
rogerdraig
27-06-2007, 19:06
Seeing as your connection IS NEVER LIMITED TO LESS THAN 512K how can you "in real terms" download less than you can on a 512k line? It IS NOT a hard cap, you can download as much as you like, just after so long, you can only do it at 512k (on the lowest package) at no point do you ever need to drop below 512k.
I like how everyone bitches about virgin making false claims and yet here people are doing exactly the same. But I guess it's ok for them to, the customer is always right!
the only way to avoid being capped is to stay under that limit we are not saying your speed is reduced below but effectivly if you want a 20 meg conection you cant have it between 4pm and 12pm / 4am to keep the posibilty of even using 20meg during those periods youi need to stay below broadband speeds for the rest of the time
as i said and even one of those posting the other way agreed
if they advertised a "5meg service with a 30 minute 20meg boost during peek periods" then fair enough
but they dont
they advertise as faster than any one else no mater how far from the exchange unlimited downloads with total freedom
quotes
We're proud to announce super fast 20Mb broadband rolling out this summer!
No download limits†
(unlike some of our competitors)
Download a music track◊ in under 2 secondsFun
Space to create your own website (55Mb, in fact!)Great for:
Downloading music albums◊
Downloading movies
Music and video live streaming
TV live streaming
Uploading photos
Podcasts
Online gamingTotal freedom
Unlike some of our competitors, you get unlimited° downloads as a basic right so you can load up on music, films...whatever you're into.
unquote
Why on earth did VM change the 10mb service, customers were happy with a great service, But no VM has to say “look at us, we offer a 20mb service, aren’t we greatâ€Â. So customers become excited over this and are happy to pay £37 per month for this service. This is good because most people use the Internet to download their entertainment, be it video, music, podcasts etc.
We need service providers to realize this and look to the future, this is the way entertainment is going to go, i.e. video on demand which will include High Definition TV and Movies, there is already High Def Podcasts out there, by capping us all we feel we are going back to the dark ages. VM say there is a downloadable limit of 3GB between 16: 00 and midnight, as most people have found this seems to be untrue, as soon as 16:00 come the speed dramatically drops, it seems that you might as well use a dial up service.
Why can’t VM just admit they can’t provide a 20MB service and go back to the very stable 10MB speed? People just feel they a being ripped off. OK VM will say “we do provide a 20MB serviceâ€Â, true, but not at the time of day when most people want to use the Internet.
lakeybloke
27-06-2007, 19:51
As I posted on another thread:
I just had an engineer around who was completely frustrated (as much as I was!). I felt sorry for him really. He got on the phone to another engineer asking why the customers aren't being told that there are Network issues. (He was quite angry!) He said he had been to 5 houses in the area complaining about speeds after 6pm and all weekends (thay are also all patched into Bromley incidentally) and people are really angry and that he completely understands why.
VM aren't admitting that there are any issues aside from the posting on the web site (http://status-cable.virginmedia.com/vmstatus/summary.do). He said its only affecting ex-NTL customers.
Doesn't look like its going to be resolved any time soon if VM aren't even admitting that the network isn't over-subscribed!. Disgusting behaviour I reckon when they can't even explain to their engineers what the hell is going on!
homealone
27-06-2007, 21:35
lol wont argue over the 5 or 2 and i would be fine with your disclaimer ;)
but the point is that what they advertise or how they BOLDLY advertise it now is not what we get
most of us who moan would shut up if they advertised it fairly and i think if everyone just put up with what compinies try to get away with this country would be far worse of than it is
consumer should be king and it shouldnt be that thier only choice is to leave <snip>
I don't disagree, however, although the 'caveat emptor' homily always applies, I think we have become too used to taking advertising at face value & not looking at the 'small print'?
Having said that the use of the term 'unlimited' is, obviously, the most contentious, and I agree they haven't really spelled out how that sits, vis a vis the shaping during peak times, or even defined what it means in any form, beyond the 'acceptable use' policy?
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