What would you do?

[swapshop1]

Scenario: You are a big ISP but have a budget constraint on the bandwidth available to your network. As such your network is overloaded with your call centres swamped with unhappy customers.


Gamers suffer latency lag
Web browsing is slow
Upon investigation you uncover that 5% of your client base having exceptionally large bandwidth usage, which isn’t a problem off peak as capacity is spare however during peak rate the impact to the rest of the community is severe.

To do nothing will not resolve the issue.

To kick 5% of your client base would loose you money but solve the problem.

Virgin tried to CAP connections but users resisted; the CAP was never enforced however in theory dropping offenders to 512kbit/s would solve the problem as only the top 5% would hit the CAP.

Virgin has implemented traffic shaping during peak hours, this only affects the top 5% and solves the problem of lag.

How do you keep everyone happy?

What would you do?

[dev]

none of the poll options, if the network wasnt congested people would be free to use as much as possible (any time).
when the network hit a specific congestion rate, eg 85%, people would be throttled back starting with the highest users untill the congestion rate dropped below the 85%, again at any time.

keeping the network from being fully congested should stop any latency spikes and will only require throttling when usage becomes high and not during any specific times

i'd also teach whoever wrote the scenario to spell "lose" :p:

[swapshop1]

none of the poll options, if the network wasnt congested people would be free to use as much as possible (any time).
- I'd teach whoever wrote this to read.:p:
The network is oversubscribed, there is no more money to build in more capacity.

when the network hit a specific congestion rate, eg 85%, people would be throttled back starting with the highest users untill the congestion rate dropped below the 85%, again at any time.

keeping the network from being fully congested should stop any latency spikes and will only require throttling when usage becomes high and not during any specific times
- So that's a spin on Traffic Shaping then!

i'd also teach whoever wrote the scenario to spell "lose"
- glass houses anyone? (those who throw stones)

[mocara]

Haha, is this not my poll from another angle? :-)

[swapshop1]

Haha, is this not my poll from another angle? :-)
It sure is! But it provides more options than shaping, presenting the situation as a whole. I think the scenario complements your poll, remember shaping isn't the only way to relieve congestion. Perhaps I should have added proxy's.

I wrote it because I wanted people to realise the problem that the ISP faces. Dammed if you do etc. rather than provide an answer to the problem.

[prawncocktail]

- I'd teach whoever wrote this to read.:p:
The network is oversubscribed, there is no more money to build in more capacity.


- So that's a spin on Traffic Shaping then!


- glass houses anyone? (those who throw stones)

it doesnt matter if there is money or if there isnt to build more capacity, if the capacity and ability to use/abuse it is there, there will always be people who use/abuse it

[dav]

none of the poll options, if the network wasnt congested people would be free to use as much as possible (any time).
when the network hit a specific congestion rate, eg 85%, people would be throttled back starting with the highest users untill the congestion rate dropped below the 85%, again at any time.

keeping the network from being fully congested should stop any latency spikes and will only require throttling when usage becomes high and not during any specific times



I actually understand what dev is saying here (more a comment on my [edit: 'lack of'] intelligence than dev's powers of description)
This would seem to be a much fairer system, but would probably be too complex for the VM 'boffins' to implement.

Think about it though...don't implement throttling until the network (or specific area) reaches a dangerously congested level and then throttle just the highest users until demand drops to more manageable levels. Simply brilliant to my brilliantly simple mind.

[fatbloke]

Stop selling products that I can't deliver.
BR,
FATS

[mark1979]

well i look at it like this

if i wanted 2mb or 4mb speed i would of signed up for it and not the 10mb connection

i chose the 10mb specificly to get as near to 10mb speeds as much as poss(which in my case,99% of the time)

i use my speeds i get as much as i can whenever i can,ll the time.i shouldnt get penalised due to this, i pay for it so i will use it as i please. yes fair enough some people may suffer due the "top 5%" but hay ho thats not my problem,or any other users problem who suffers the speed loss and doesnt get what there paying for.

ive never knocked my service as its been rock solid,always.

problem for me though is i cant moan to much as where i live i can only get a max of 3.5mb through my phoneline,so even if they do restrict my speed during certain hours,its still gonna be faster than any adsl i could get,and i imagine many other people would be the same if a long way from there exchange

[techman]

This is a flawed poll all the options have a negative effect on internet users. A option of virgin media investing in network performance should have been placed in the voting list :confused:

[Magilla]

What would you do?

None of the above. You forgot the "Stop taking on new customers until we can support the ones we already have as advertised".

[ecksmen]

I wish people would stop quoting the 5% - that's completely a rubbish figure.

At some point or other traffic shaping, or capping will effect everyone.

[Heedyheed]

My internet use is relatively light - mostly browsing and not much in the way of file downloads. I don't run any p2p stuff nor am I a gamer. I have the 2 meg service which, according to various speed tests, is what I get most of the time. However, I've noticed that lag is becoming more and more of a problem. At peak times it is often the case that pages take 10-15 seconds to load - around the same speed as I used to see on dial-up. Sometimes even a simple DNS lookup is taking 5-7 seconds to complete. While I hated the unreliability of the old NTL proxy servers, I think network performance has taken a hit since they were removed.

So here I am, paying £15 or so for what is probably a few meg a day while others are paying maybe twice as much for a 10meg (or is it 20meg now?) service, but are running their connection flat-out all the time and, as a result, generate network traffic at a rate that's over a thousand times my contribution.

Beats me what anyone would do with so much data, but that's another question :)

A bit like the roads, Virgin Media could lay down a load more concrete, but the traffic will just rise to fill the additional capacity. I think there needs to be a more equitable sharing of costs that more closely reflects the volume of traffic generated by each user. To continue the road analogy, a big transport company pays a lot more in road tax than a single car user. The fact that the lorries and cars are all capable of 70 mph isn't a sensible basis on which to cost the effect that each has on the road network. Is it any longer appropriate to charge for an internet service purely on the basis of the maximum connection speed? Perhaps not. However, if it's true that the heavy network use of only 5% of users is what's causing the existing network infrastructure to become overloaded at peak times, then I'd say traffic shaping (or temporarily reducing the impact of that 5% on the network) is a reasonable solution. Either that or Virgin Media reduce the cost of my broadband service to 3p/month :D

Mike

[SOSAGES]

just like any "post funny pictures" thread on every forum i think we have come to the end of all content available to talk about to do with traffic shapping and caps......

[dev]

- I'd teach whoever wrote this to read.:p:
The network is oversubscribed, there is no more money to build in more capacity.


flawed specification i say! you didn't mention it was congested 24/7 and on special days such as christmas day, england in world cup final (this is a hypothetical situation right? :p:)

i was merely saying that at times it is not congested (which they must be at some point), don't bother shaping it. I bet the peak traffic on christmas day is a lot less than peak traffic on other days so why shape it the same? Think it as how motorways work, its a 70mph speed limit until traffic jams start to appear then the speed limit is reduced until it reaches an acceptable level of free moving traffic

[RXP]

Enforce QoS!

[DieDieMyDarling]

Option 5:
Sack the ntl bigwigs who've been running the business into the ground for years, through bad management, abysmal business decisions and ****ing money up the wall. Use the money saved to bring in some new staff AND pay for infrastructure upgrades. :D

[mojo]

Here is the best option:

- Invest in network to provide required bandwidth, while rolling out new IPTV/download services to generate extra revenue.

Virgin could provide streaming HDTV over their network. Most people don't have a HD capable TV, but they do have a HD capable computer monitor.

[on in an hour!]

Scenario: You are a big ISP but have a budget constraint on the bandwidth available to your network. As such your network is overloaded with your call centres swamped with unhappy customers.


Gamers suffer latency lag
Web browsing is slow
Upon investigation you uncover that 5% of your client base having exceptionally large bandwidth usage, which isn’t a problem off peak as capacity is spare however during peak rate the impact to the rest of the community is severe.

To do nothing will not resolve the issue.

To kick 5% of your client base would loose you money but solve the problem.

Virgin tried to CAP connections but users resisted; the CAP was never enforced however in theory dropping offenders to 512kbit/s would solve the problem as only the top 5% would hit the CAP.

Virgin has implemented traffic shaping during peak hours, this only affects the top 5% and solves the problem of lag.

How do you keep everyone happy?

What would you do?
best be careful,if anyone from VM sees your poll options they might just implement all 4 :D :D :D