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mocara
09-05-2007, 02:58
Hi.
Would you prefer a monthly cap of 180Gig, got over it and you get a) no connection b) 512k connection or th would you prefer the existing 4 hour window of shapping between 4-12? Either way I see they are going to do something to stop people hammering the network.

Steve-o||[^]
09-05-2007, 03:27
I voted option #2.


like i was saying here (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34297541-post80.html). a range of usage limits and once exceeded throttled connection that is good enough for viewing emails, a touch of online-banking and maybe the odd IRC/MSN Convo.

Just had a look over my usage since Nov `06;
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2007/05/156.png

so, following that trend ('what trend!' i hear you think :P). 180GB/mth, for me, is more than enough - unless i do that whole 18hrs of downloading on on full throttle every day for a week or more after I migrate to XL :D


Obviously the 1337 YouTubbers may need a bit more than me ;)

supercyber
09-05-2007, 09:09
what about the option of no shaping at all.

mabe we should start a campgain, i havent had any problems jet, but when it comes to me, i am goona give VM a big headec, being law student as well :)

zing_deleted
09-05-2007, 09:31
what about the option of no shaping at all.

mabe we should start a campgain, i havent had any problems jet, but when it comes to me, i am goona give VM a big headec, being law student as well :)

so what happens if your on a ubr where loads are trying to download at 20 meg at once and you try to download something and find your net very slow and download speeds poor because of contention what then?

m044bz00
09-05-2007, 09:38
so what happens if your on a ubr where loads are trying to download at 20 meg at once and you try to download something and find your net very slow and download speeds poor because of contention what then?
I'd personally rather have a constant 10Mbps and no throttling than the 20Mbps

VM are clearly admiting that their network is not capable of 20Mbps, they want to give this service to grab the headlines and then sneakily grab it back through throttling.

zing_deleted
09-05-2007, 09:41
yeah I cant say I disgree 10 meg should be middle package and 20 meg maybe higher priced. But shaping is here and I doubt its going anywhere

flashyphotos
09-05-2007, 10:41
Current system works fine for me!

The 180Gb a month would not be good for me, I tend to thrash the system when I am around


Qualified this by saying

I work 3pm to 10pm so am not in during the shaped hours really anyway!

ecksmen
09-05-2007, 11:02
180GB is way too much.

IMO I always like the way nildram did things. During the day you'd be capped, something like 50GB for the whole month with email alerts as and when you reach threshold limits but then outside of daylight hours bandwitdh was free. I had ultra low pings and my connection was always top speed.

I don't mean to be rude, but just what is the point in some of you on here in paying for a premium service, when you hardly use it? In a month, I don't download all that much. I estimate about 40GB, just over a gb a day with two people sharing the connection.

In fairness my 10Mbps hardly gets used to max, as often there isn't a server capable of sending me files of that speed. If anything VM really shouldn't have bothered with the whole 20Mbps, it's not as if ADSL (the competition) has much to offer. VM imo would have been much better off improving the 10Mbp service to remain competitive against DSL (all the 8Mbps dsl) and imposed just an over all monthly limit, but inforce it with an iron glove.

We all know P2P applications are the worts people to have on a network. They could easily impliment better traffic management, hell even block common p2p. Now I hear VM are removing the proxies, nothing seems to make good networking sense.

Offer superfast speeds, but get throttled if you used the connection for how its meant to be (come on, 20Mbps is not designed for getting an Mp3 twice as fast even when the server wont serve it at that speed) and to then remove proxies which have been proved time and time again to help the user. Now we're going to have 20Mbps killing VMs real internet connection as it'll be saturated.

It's a complete joke, and that's coming from a non p2per.

If I can't download one single DVD image (what ever that may be) without being throttled then it just clearly shows VMs network is just not capable.

If VM turely had the customers surfing experience to be spot on, they'd keep the 10Mbp and introduce a fair use policy of something like 70gb (which is way lower than the current allowance, but you wouldn't get throttled if you chose to have one made day of downloading).

helmutcheese
09-05-2007, 14:49
The same amount that I signed up for years ago, ZERO

Horace
09-05-2007, 14:54
what about the option of no shaping at all.

mabe we should start a campgain, i havent had any problems jet, but when it comes to me, i am goona give VM a big headec, being law student as well :)

Maybe you should become an English student instead.

dannyoneill
09-05-2007, 15:04
They surely cant sell their packages as 'unlimited' now can they. Saying they are unlimited but as long as you are below a certain level is something else.

I hate traffic shaping, at least they dont disable all services apart from web after hours unlike other providers. A limit in speed is better than no connection.

helmutcheese
09-05-2007, 15:07
Maby/maybe (2 ways to spell it) he may have learning difficulties like a user on the other forum, either way your ignorent to even point that out, if you used 1/2 as much grey matter to read it than you did to respond then you would like others make sence of it typos inc.

Exactly what input did we gain from the post anyhow ?.

mocara
09-05-2007, 15:47
hehehe 'inout' now I know that was intentional.
I must agree, I hate to see a post rubbished because of bad spelling. I can't spell, but I'm not an idiot, I just have a problem with spelling. That is why on my own forum I've installed a spellchecker :-)

Horace
09-05-2007, 17:31
Maby/maybe (2 ways to spell it - Like hell there is) he may have learning difficulties like a user on the other forum, either way you're ignorent to even point that out, if you used 1/2 as much grey matter to read it than you did to respond then you would like others make sence of it typos inc.(???)

Exactly what input did we gain from the post anyhow ?.

I have no idea what you mean.

Locky
09-05-2007, 18:33
none because that 180 gig can be used if in little over 1 day...

AntiSilence
09-05-2007, 18:37
They surely cant sell their packages as 'unlimited' now can they.

Yes. They are unlimited in the amount you can download. It's just that if you download over a certain amount during a certain time, you can still download as much as you want, just slower.

RXP
09-05-2007, 18:38
They should introduce dynamic throttling where you only get hit if your UBR is at max capacity. I'm pretty sure they can do this via QoS with current Cisco gear, just need some talented high level QoS designers.

Locky
09-05-2007, 18:43
Yes. They are unlimited in the amount you can download. It's just that if you download over a certain amount during a certain time, you can still download as much as you want, just slower.

no they cant...... as they are penaliseing you for downloading a certain amount... so it isnt unlimited... is it....

supercyber
09-05-2007, 18:45
Maybe you should become an English student instead.

what is ur problem, wasting a post :), i know i am wasting this post. lamo.

AntiSilence
09-05-2007, 19:13
no they cant...... as they are penaliseing you for downloading a certain amount... so it isnt unlimited... is it....

Er, yes.... They don't stop you downloading, or how much you can download. They just reduce the speed at which you can do so. Hence, still unlimited.

therock247uk
09-05-2007, 19:19
I prefer the current shapping...

ecksmen
09-05-2007, 19:48
Er, yes.... They don't stop you downloading, or how much you can download. They just reduce the speed at which you can do so. Hence, still unlimited.

No, it's not truely unlimited. For arguements sake as I can't be bothered to run the numbers say on 20Mbps you can download 100gb in a day, well if at any point the speed is reduced say to 5Mbps that's going to mean on 5Mbps you can only download 25GB (in my example).

Now, suddenly 100GB potential at full speed, 25GB real that's a limit right there, it's just a clever way of doing it, but it is a limit. Sure you can download to the full potential of the 5Mbps, but that's still a limit. Any way of trying to argue it differently is null and void as it's not unlimited. An "unlimited" 20Mbps would be 100GB a day nothing more, nothing less.

For instance, if they dropped you down to 14.4bps would you class that as unlimited? No, becuase they've capped just how much you can download, ergo it's a limit.

So, next will come the *upto* - I have always read this as being network conditions, not forced conditions from the ISP intervention, as in cable lenght, and network usage. You'd need to read the small print for this argument. But restricting speed is a limit.

AntiSilence
09-05-2007, 20:53
It may not be *truely* unlimited, but it's more unlimited than some people make it out to be. While I see that your example is a good one, and the limiting is very clever, I still see it as unlimited. And oddly, I do see 14k4 as unlimited. Because it's so slow, you will never reach any size download limits. So yes, it's a limit. But not as what people generally think.

Zee
09-05-2007, 21:04
They surely cant sell their packages as 'unlimited' now can they. Saying they are unlimited but as long as you are below a certain level is something else.

I hate traffic shaping, at least they dont disable all services apart from web after hours unlike other providers. A limit in speed is better than no connection.

They are unlimited, so why would they not sell as unlimited?
You can still download as much as you want, 500GB if you want only at a slower speed if you go over certain amounts.

alferret
09-05-2007, 21:19
I think the vote speaks for itself, majority of the people are happy with the current traffic shaping.

:tu:

Locky
09-05-2007, 21:56
Er, yes.... They don't stop you downloading, or how much you can download. They just reduce the speed at which you can do so. Hence, still unlimited.

errr NO you are penalised for downloading so much no mater the consequences they can NOT (well they probably could but ofcom no doubt will say sumthign about it) advertise unlimited when they are doing that..

---------- Post added at 20:56 ---------- Previous post was at 20:55 ----------

I think the vote speaks for itself, majority of the people are happy with the current traffic shaping.

:tu:

well the majority are idiots and when the shapeing affects them they wont shut up complaining.. i am glad u like bein ripped off :/

Bill C
09-05-2007, 21:58
Sorry but 180 gig ? what am i to do with such a low amount. I would sooner have the shaping than be limited to only 180 gig .

ecksmen
09-05-2007, 22:13
They are unlimited, so why would they not sell as unlimited?
You can still download as much as you want, 500GB if you want only at a slower speed if you go over certain amounts.

Please see this post then, about 2 up. http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34299102-post22.html

People who think that the service is unlimited with speed restrictions are I'm sorry to say, are wrong.

I wonder how many Virgin Media staff are populating this forum in a vaine attempt to change disgruntled users? I'd be willing to bet the poll on these forums is completely trashed from VM staff.

Steve-o||[^]
09-05-2007, 22:22
I don't mean to be rude, but just what is the point in some of you on here in paying for a premium service, when you hardly use it?

mostly for the small, but larger than the base tier, upload \n/,

alferret
09-05-2007, 22:24
Ahhh Locky, Locky, Locky - What we gonna do with you eh mate?

Calling people who have voted that Traffic Shaping is ok idiots is not a wise choice of word to use.

I mean who is the idiot?

He who agree's to the rules laid out by a provider, Fair usage or he who wants to use so much bandwith that he can compromise and degrade the same service his neighbour receives?

Give some people and inch and they'll take a mile.

Sirpingalot
09-05-2007, 22:25
Please see this post then, about 2 up. http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34299102-post22.html

People who think that the service is unlimited with speed restrictions are I'm sorry to say, are wrong.

I wonder how many Virgin Media staff are populating this forum in a vaine attempt to change disgruntled users? I'd be willing to bet the poll on these forums is completely trashed from VM staff.

I honestly don't believe it is.

ecksmen
09-05-2007, 22:58
I honestly don't believe it is.

It's not a matter of beleiving or not. It's fact, a reduction in speed (no matter for how long) is a limit on the amount you can download given in any period of time. If it wasn't a limit, then there'd be no reason to implement such a control.

While it's true you can download as much as the connection will allow, that doesn't mean the connection is unlimited in the fact that the 20Mbps is crippled during peak times.

Xan
09-05-2007, 23:09
give it a month if you dont like vote with your feet i will,and i'v been with ntl since the start.Any one seen the VM addverts download as much as you like,unlike other isps.

Paul
09-05-2007, 23:13
Sorry but 180 gig ? what am i to do with such a low amount. I would sooner have the shaping than be limited to only 180 gig .I hope you are joking :) - 180G is a ridiculous amount - 6 gig a day, everyday. Even if someone could sustain full speed on a 10meg connection (which is unlikely) it would take about 9 hours to download that amount.

Anyone hammering a connection that much day after day is going to seriously affect other peoples connections (like mine) and I have absolutely no sympathy for their moans about traffic shaping. I would be more than happy if they left VM sooner rather than later.

Maggy
09-05-2007, 23:17
Yes. They are unlimited in the amount you can download. It's just that if you download over a certain amount during a certain time, you can still download as much as you want, just slower.

:clap::clap:

---------- Post added at 22:17 ---------- Previous post was at 22:17 ----------

no they cant...... as they are penaliseing you for downloading a certain amount... so it isnt unlimited... is it....



:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Rone
09-05-2007, 23:17
As has been pointed out by others [countless times] the people who visit these pages are a very, very small pecentage of the customer database.
Do you think if 10 people complain to Ford they dont like the Fiesta as its slow and expensive they would stop making it?
There have been polls here and complaints [god knows i have made plenty] and having voted with my feet and gone elsewhere and have come back as its been crap.
NTL [Virgin] will never be perfect, but its probably the best there is atm, most wont leave as they know its true, they winge and think if they do it enough NTL will just roll over and do exactly as they ask.
Well it wont happen, not with them or any other company, NTL has tons of faults, i would like 20meg for £5 pm, sod it, make it a quid, and if you dont do as i say i'm going to................find something else to complain about.

Bill C
09-05-2007, 23:35
I hope you are joking :) - 180G is a ridiculous amount - 6 gig a day, everyday. Even if someone could sustain full speed on a 10meg connection (which is unlikely) it would take about 9 hours to download that amount.

Anyone hammering a connection that much day after day is going to seriously affect other peoples connections (like mine) and I have absolutely no sympathy for their moans about traffic shaping. I would be more than happy if they left VM sooner rather than later.

Yes i was :)

Raxor
09-05-2007, 23:59
Im happy with what they decided to go for. Seems fair for most people - Only thing i dont like is that the customers on 2 meg etc have a pitiful peak limit. Me im on 10 meg and havent noticed much difference. I say they should keep it for a while longer and see how it goes

Horace
10-05-2007, 00:05
It's funny, people are voting for a far stricter cap on their connection that we have now. Those votes have to be coming from 2meg users who may struggle to hit an average of 6gig a day.

fatbloke
10-05-2007, 00:07
I would prefer unlimited downloads with no caps or restrictions at all.. after all what am I paying £37 pound a month for if they are changing the unlimited downloads that I have been getting.
The time I download stuff is between 4 and 12pm and 3 gig is only one decent film or one linux distro and then they cut me down to 5mb.
Thank's but not for me.
Best Regards,
Fats :)

pedrohizzo
10-05-2007, 00:24
I hope you are joking :) - 180G is a ridiculous amount - 6 gig a day, everyday. Even if someone could sustain full speed on a 10meg connection (which is unlikely) it would take about 9 hours to download that amount.

Anyone hammering a connection that much day after day is going to seriously affect other peoples connections (like mine) and I have absolutely no sympathy for their moans about traffic shaping. I would be more than happy if they left VM sooner rather than later.


actually, it would take about 2 hours on a 10meg connection, so using your connection at its rated speed for 2 hours everyday constitutes "hammering" it?

mocara
10-05-2007, 00:24
It's funny, people are voting for a far stricter cap on their connection that we have now. Those votes have to be coming from 2meg users who may struggle to hit an average of 6gig a day.

Good point. I should have made it clearer I was talking about the 20meg package :-)

But if we are going to be paranoid, maybe they are all VM employees voting for the status quo. ;-)

arcamalpha2004
10-05-2007, 00:33
Er, yes.... They don't stop you downloading, or how much you can download. They just reduce the speed at which you can do so. Hence, still unlimited.



Some people need a dictionary.
VM are not providing an unlimited service.

helmutcheese
10-05-2007, 00:44
I have no idea what you mean.

Thats because your more stupid than anyone with learning difficulties, and dont edit my post, it was readable without they extras.

You are NOT the forum grammer police, I could understand his post without slagging him.

LenMackin
10-05-2007, 00:49
Ok I have decided that VM's new policy is rubbish, sitting here on a 4mb line that is currently doing 1.9!! I am getting a new modem tomorrow in the anticipation of upgrading back to 10mb on Friday - no way now. I have also launched a complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority re VMs broadband lies on their website. Here is the link to the ASA http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/how_to_complain/

---------- Post added at 23:49 ---------- Previous post was at 23:44 ----------

Oh and btw, re the crappy poll, what about 180gb per month and NOTHING happens!! the British, how we love to be organised, told what to do, we know our place alright!! Thanks Richard, I so want to pay you £37. per month and I am ever so grateful to do so! What's that, you want to reduce my speed to 512 for the evening. Wow that;s nice of you. Here --- have my £37!!

Lets doff our caps and be grateful for corporate lies

Sirpingalot
10-05-2007, 00:53
It's not a matter of beleiving or not. It's fact, a reduction in speed (no matter for how long) is a limit on the amount you can download given in any period of time. If it wasn't a limit, then there'd be no reason to implement such a control.

While it's true you can download as much as the connection will allow, that doesn't mean the connection is unlimited in the fact that the 20Mbps is crippled during peak times.

Oh, sorry...you're missunderstood - I was referring to what you said about the poll being taken over by VM staff. I should've pointed it out.

Rik
10-05-2007, 01:08
Sorry but 180 gig ? what am i to do with such a low amount. I would sooner have the shaping than be limited to only 180 gig .

Yes come on at least put a 0 on the end! ;)

1.8TB.

Now thats more like it :D

PS These new 1TB HDs look tempting.

Sirpingalot
10-05-2007, 01:19
Yes come on at least put a 0 on the end! ;)

1.8TB.

Now thats more like it :D

PS These new 1TB HDs look tempting.

Don't you mean XXXXXXXHHD (Or ExtremeExtremeExtremeExtremeExtremeExtremeExtremeH ighHighDefinition). Erm, in other words, a very high resolution that no TV/Monitor is currently capable of :D

RXP
10-05-2007, 08:22
Anyone hammering a connection that much day after day is going to seriously affect other peoples connections (like mine) and I have absolutely no sympathy for their moans about traffic shaping. I would be more than happy if they left VM sooner rather than later.

Not if they do it between 00:00-07:00!

Locky
10-05-2007, 16:46
no caps lets jsut have20 meg shaped to 10 and i wont complain AT ALL as will many others...

JackSon
10-05-2007, 19:04
The problem could be nipped in the bud if the top 5% of bandwidth users don't get upgraded and remain on 10Mb - leaving hardly any need for shaping to occur on 20Mb. Then in 10 years or so once the network has been sufficiently sorted out, upgrade that remaining 5%.

But in lieu of that idealic soultion, I'm happy with VM's stance on fair use and don't oppose traffic shaping.

Efour
10-05-2007, 19:12
180gb cap

wtf seriously if you are dloading more than that you are breaking the law or should go to a real business ISP .

Really annoys me you p2p - news junkies crapping all over the "normal" users and screwing everyone.

YOU DONT NEED TB of HDs filled with freaking music, games ISOs, crap films you will never watch.

I wish they would just filter traffic and start booting people off the service that heavily Dload copyrighted stuff

JackSon
10-05-2007, 19:21
Sounds like you need an ISP that has every port blocked except 80 ;)

RXP
10-05-2007, 19:41
180gb cap

wtf seriously if you are dloading more than that you are breaking the law or should go to a real business ISP .

Really annoys me you p2p - news junkies crapping all over the "normal" users and screwing everyone.

YOU DONT NEED TB of HDs filled with freaking music, games ISOs, crap films you will never watch.

I wish they would just filter traffic and start booting people off the service that heavily Dload copyrighted stuff

Internet lawyers:td:

Locky
10-05-2007, 20:00
180gb cap

wtf seriously if you are dloading more than that you are breaking the law or should go to a real business ISP .

Really annoys me you p2p - news junkies crapping all over the "normal" users and screwing everyone.

YOU DONT NEED TB of HDs filled with freaking music, games ISOs, crap films you will never watch.

I wish they would just filter traffic and start booting people off the service that heavily Dload copyrighted stuff

it is called getging your moneys worth on a UNLIMITED provider so grow up shut up and deal with it

blade85
10-05-2007, 20:15
Is there any way to check what my monthly or daily use is???

cause i have no idea how much of my connection is being used when im streaming an HD trailer or if on TS or playing an online game.

Efour
10-05-2007, 21:07
it is called getging your moneys worth on a UNLIMITED provider so grow up shut up and deal with it

MOST MATURE ATTITUDE AWARD GOES TO.........

Monies worth.... ROFL so whats that 3 Album CDs worth on MP3. thats about £30 quid there, twice what i pay for 10mbit.

Its the mentally challenged people like you that contribute to the problem.

i am dealing with it. And get a spell checker or proof read or something.

dcclanuk
10-05-2007, 21:10
MOST MATURE ATTITUDE AWARD GOES TO.........

Monies worth.... ROFL so whats that 3 Album CDs worth on MP3. thats about £30 quid there, twice what i pay for 10mbit.

Its the mentally challenged people like you that contribute to the problem.

i am dealing with it. And get a spell checker or proof read or something.

Why be so rude?

Locky
10-05-2007, 21:12
MOST MATURE ATTITUDE AWARD GOES TO.........

Monies worth.... ROFL so whats that 3 Album CDs worth on MP3. thats about £30 quid there, twice what i pay for 10mbit.

Its the mentally challenged people like you that contribute to the problem.

i am dealing with it. And get a spell checker or proof read or something.

how do u no i am not just streaming a LOT of hd trailers videos etc etc so STFU u dont come accross as clever u just appear to be a little err simple minded shall we say

ps, i am glad i am a problem to ******s with your attitude thanks :)

Efour
10-05-2007, 21:23
Why be so rude?

I dont like being told to shut up and deal with it, do you ?

Locky, i cant even understand that - its a forum not a mobile phone.

dcclanuk
10-05-2007, 21:26
I dont like being told to shut up and deal with it, do you ?

Locky, i cant even understand that - its a forum not a mobile phone.

Yes, but why stoop to an even lower level???

Bill C
10-05-2007, 21:28
One of the reason's i have stayed out of all these Traffic shaping threads is that it brings the children and under bridge dwellers on to the forum :rolleyes:

(cannot say troll or i will get another infraction) :LOL:

Nedkelly
10-05-2007, 21:29
Chill out please before the moderators get involved :)

DocDutch
10-05-2007, 21:31
amen Bill.... its always the same as well... the people that download the most making the network unstable are the ones that scream the loudest.

and yes Ned am also with you there that people need to take a chill pill or 20

dilli-theclaw
10-05-2007, 21:32
Return to the topic RIGHT NOW and STOP the bickering and arguing. Jefferson T

Efour
10-05-2007, 21:34
Yes, but why stoop to an even lower level???

Good god this is the internet, Relax, its not WW3. I just remembered why i dont visit these forums that often.

I think theres enough negative posts about the service at the moment ill leave it to the others to crusade for.... nothing.

you can all go back to sleep now.

Bill C
10-05-2007, 21:52
Good god this is the internet, Relax, its not WW3. I just remembered why i dont visit these forums that often.

I think theres enough negative posts about the service at the moment ill leave it to the others to crusade for.... nothing.

you can all go back to sleep now.

We are a grumpy old hector arent we. :)

DocDutch
10-05-2007, 21:56
well Bill dont you get suicidal tendencies when you read the speed issue threads ;)

but to be on topic. if people are soo unhappy with VM why you still there? there are enough ISPs in the UK where you wont have as much luck/speed/service as with VM. or okay if you live on top of the exchange then you might have better speeds.

Bill C
10-05-2007, 22:02
well Bill dont you get suicidal tendencies when you read the speed issue threads ;)

but to be on topic. if people are soo unhappy with VM why you still there? there are enough ISPs in the UK where you wont have as much luck/speed/service as with VM. or okay if you live on top of the exchange then you might have better speeds.

There more important things in my life than how fast i can download a dvd and how many dvds i can download in a day

homealone
10-05-2007, 22:02
ok voted ;)

- can I humbly point out that the traffic management time zone is 8 hours, not 4 :)

<edit> or did I read it wrong, in that the shaping is for 4 hours at a time? - sorry if that is the case :)

RXP
10-05-2007, 23:01
There more important things in my life than how fast i can download a dvd and how many dvds i can download in a day

hahahahaha!

arcamalpha2004
11-05-2007, 12:08
There more important things in my life than how fast i can download a dvd and how many dvds i can download in a day


Do VM subscribe to the same train of thought Bill? ;)