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Action Jackson
29-03-2007, 13:29
Real condition or just an excuse for lazy people to continue being lazy?

Doctors seem divided as to whether or not this should have been classified as an 'official' condition. Especially as there are no conclusive tests to diagnose this condition (they test you for everything else and if they can't find anything else wrong then they diagnose you with ME).

This now seems to be opening the doors for people to jump on the bandwagon in order to give them an excuse not to seek work ("I'm not lazy, I have ME, honest".

And why has ME only arrived in our society in the last couple of decades? No one seemed to have it 100 years ago. :confused:

And why is it only Western people seem to get ME (Africans and Asians don't seem to be suffering from it)? :confused:


Sorry, but I'm just not convinced as to the validity of this condition.

Wicked_and_Crazy
29-03-2007, 13:46
And why has ME only arrived in our society in the last couple of decades? No one seemed to have it 100 years ago. :confused:


Nobody was subjected to constant radiation from radio waves a 100 years ago, no one cooked with a microwave 100 years ago. The world is a different place to what it was 100 years ago and maybe some of those differences just arent good for the human body.

peanut
29-03-2007, 13:55
I must have ME myself, as I know one person with it, is much more active than I am, takes the dog out for long walks many times a day etc, makes me knackered just watching him. And yes, he's off work (permanently) with it.

I think there are people that do jump on the bandwagon which don't help those with a genuine problem.

I ain't a doctor and I don't know all the facts for ME and even though I know a few that do take the buiscuit, I won't and can't tar everyone with the same brush.

Being ill myself and quite house bound, I do suffer from the usual symptoms that comes with being like that, eg low self esteem, lack of self respect, depression, and because I don't move around much and not classed as being active I would feel tried and knackered. Everything that could be assembled and classed as ME or just plain lazy I suppose.

Action Jackson
29-03-2007, 14:00
Nobody was subjected to constant radiation from radio waves a 100 years ago, no one cooked with a microwave 100 years ago. The world is a different place to what it was 100 years ago and maybe some of those differences just arent good for the human body.

Microwaves cause ME? :D

I take your point on board about the world being a different place and so therefore we have new diseases/ailments etc that come with living in a different environment.

But is ME an actual condition?

You go to the doctors complaining of tiredness and he tests you for diabetes and various other conditions. If he can't find anything definitively wrong then he declares that you have ME. Hardly conclusive is it? Seems more like a get-out for the doctors.

I'm not saying that a lot of these people aren't genuinely tired or suffering from fatigue, but could this not simply be psychosomatic with a dash of hypochondria?

---------- Post added at 13:00 ---------- Previous post was at 12:57 ----------

I must have ME myself, as I know one person with it, is much more active than I am, takes the dog out for long walks many times a day etc, makes me knackered just watching him. And yes, he's off work (permanently) with it.

I think there are people that do jump on the bandwagon which don't help those with a genuine problem.

I ain't a doctor and I don't know all the facts for ME and even though I know a few that do take the buiscuit, I won't and can't tar everyone with the same brush.

I play 5-a-side football twice a week with a guy who says he is suffering from ME(my inspiration for the thread). He is the most energetic bloke on the park and doesn't stop running for the full hour and a half.

He too is off work permanently.

Wicked_and_Crazy
29-03-2007, 14:02
My understanding is there are a number of conditions that doctors can only diagnose on the basis of elliminating all other conditions, ME isnt the only one.

I guess you could say Stress is the same then? Its a pull yourself together and get on with it ailment. If only life were so simple. However i agree, people do get on the bandwagon

phaze9
29-03-2007, 14:11
My wife has had this illness for the last 15 years , she used to go to the gym 3 times a week , worked for the Health service ( Sister's Post ) until she caught it. They eventually found out after 3 years ! that it was caused by a virus which attacked the muscles of her heart, I do agree that some people use it as an excuse but I do get a bit miffed when people who have not
(a) suffered from it or
(b) have to care for somone who has it,
making judgement calls on it and putting it down to stress or some other excuse. :erm:

Action Jackson
29-03-2007, 14:12
My understanding is there are a number of conditions that doctors can only diagnose on the basis of elliminating all other conditions, ME isnt the only one.

I guess you could say Stress is the same then? Its a pull yourself together and get on with it ailment. If only life were so simple. However i agree, people do get on the bandwagon


I think that a lot of the blame lies with lazy doctors. A patient persists that they have something wrong with them, doctor test them to death(not literally), then it gets to the point where the doctor simply has to diagnose them with something.


Stress is easier to spot as a condition someone is suffering from rather than deducing that someone has ME just because they are tired a lot(too tired for work but not for going to the pub or playing sports it seems). But you are right, because there are no definitive tests for it then it can be faked and diagnosed quite easily with a bit of persistence and some acting skills.

Russ
29-03-2007, 14:13
I think that a lot of the blame lies with lazy doctors. A patient persists that they have something wrong with them, doctor test them to death(not literally), then it gets to the point where the doctor simply has to diagnose them with something.

I take it you know little or nothing about medical diagnostics then.

Action Jackson
29-03-2007, 14:15
My wife has had this illness for the last 15 years , she used to go to the gym 3 times a week , worked for the Health service ( Sister's Post ) until she caught it. They eventually found out after 3 years ! that it was caused by a virus which attacked the muscles of her heart, I do agree that some people use it as an excuse but I do get a bit miffed when people who have not
(a) suffered from it or
(b) have to care for somone who has it,
making judgement calls on it and putting it down to stress or some other excuse. :erm:

1. You can't 'catch' ME.

2. She obviously didn't have ME then if it turned out to be a virus which attacked the muscles in her heart(ME is not a virus and can't be definitively diagnosed). She was obviously suffering from something else entirely.

3. She managed to go to the gym 3 times a week, but still thought she had ME? :confused:

Jules
29-03-2007, 14:20
I believe it is a genuine condition that we don't know enough about yet, but I also believe people are too quick to use it as a excuse when they do not have the condition. A bit like people that say they have flu when they have a cold etc.
For the genuine cases they have my sympathy as it can be a terribly debilitating illness :(

Action Jackson
29-03-2007, 14:21
I take it you know little or nothing about medical diagnostics then.

I think that doctors are under a lot of pressure to diagnose persistent patients.


It's much like the debate about how bugs are becoming resistant to anti-biotics due to over subscription for viral conditions that would clear up by themselves anyway(MRSA being a classic example of a resistant bug).

This is mostly down to people like mothers who take children into the doctor with ear/throat infections and demand penicillin/amoxycillin for their screaming child, whereas most doctors agree that they would rather adopt a 'wait and see' policy and simply give pain medicine when it comes to viral infections, because studies prove that most of these infections will clear up by themselves in just as quick a time as if they gave them anti-biotics.


This is not the case for 'bacterial' infections obviously.

peanut
29-03-2007, 14:35
Having read some of the symptoms, I do have my doubts that the person I know who is diagnosed with it really does has it. But I can not confirm that. But if the Doc said he's got it then he must have it right?

I think the term ME is now generalised into lazyitis and nothing more, and then passed on to the point of being trivialised. The same with ADHD, just take these pills and stick a label on your head and go away. (Not always the case but just to make a point here).

I don't know anyone personally who does suffer those symptoms I've read, it doesn't sound nice that's for sure.

Action Jackson
29-03-2007, 14:39
Having read some of the symptoms, I do have my doubts that the person I know who is diagnosed with it really does has it. But I can not confirm that. But if the Doc said he's got it then he must have it right?

I think the term ME is now generalised into lazyitis and nothing more, and then passed on to the point of being trivialised. The same with ADHD, just take these pills and stick a label on your head and go away. (Not always the case but just to make a point here).

I don't know anyone personally who does suffer those symptoms I've read, it doesn't sound nice that's for sure.

I have read accounts of people diagnosed with ME who are unable to leave their bed and genuinely seem to be suffering.

This is a far cry from the guy who simply can't be arsed going to work or feels a bit too tired to go to the shops for a pint of milk (who doesn't feel a bit tired most of the time?).

Salu
29-03-2007, 17:30
1. You can't 'catch' ME.

2. She obviously didn't have ME then if it turned out to be a virus which attacked the muscles in her heart(ME is not a virus and can't be definitively diagnosed). She was obviously suffering from something else entirely.

3. She managed to go to the gym 3 times a week, but still thought she had ME? :confused:

1. We don't know this as we don't know what the cause is, if indeed the condition exists which is the subject of continual debate. Can you justify this assertion?

2. You seem very confident of your assertions but I think you need to be less sweeping with your statements. Firstly ME has been said to be a post viral syndrome so it isn't that unlikely to be diagnosed following myocarditis?? Fatigue in general is well documented following a viral infection. So it would be a logical hypothesis.......What makes you dismiss it so easily?

And why has ME only arrived in our society in the last couple of decades? No one seemed to have it 100 years ago.

ME has been documented since the early 1930s....There is also something called DaCosta's syndrome which was described in the latter half of the 19th century. It has been said this could be an early description of CFS.

Action Jackson
29-03-2007, 17:44
1. We don't know this as we don't know what the cause is, if indeed the condition exists which is the subject of continual debate. Can you justify this assertion?

2. You seem very confident of your assertions but I think you need to be less sweeping with your statements. Firstly ME has been said to be a post viral syndrome so it isn't that unlikely to be diagnosed following myocarditis?? Fatigue in general is well documented following a viral infection. So it would be a logical hypothesis.......What makes you dismiss it so easily?



Next you'll be saying that obesity is also a disease rather than just an uncontrollable love of the chip shop. :D

TheNorm
29-03-2007, 17:49
I believe it is a genuine condition that we don't know enough about yet, but I also believe people are too quick to use it as a excuse when they do not have the condition. A bit like people that say they have flu when they have a cold etc.
For the genuine cases they have my sympathy as it can be a terribly debilitating illness :(

I agree completely, Jules. Other examples are people with "bad backs" who seem fit enough to play a few rounds of golf, and those who come down with a "migraine" after a night spent drinking.

Speaking of the flu, I've heard about a test used in the GPs surgery that can actually determine if you have the virus. Apparently it is a sort of stick that changes colour, a bit like a pregnancy test.

Russ
29-03-2007, 17:52
Next you'll be saying that obesity is also a disease rather than just an uncontrollable love of the chip shop. :D

As Salu is a medical professional I'd be inclined to beleive him if he said it was...

Action Jackson
29-03-2007, 17:54
As Salu is a medical professional


I kinda guessed that. :D

peanut
29-03-2007, 17:56
Next you'll be saying that obesity is also a disease rather than just an uncontrollable love of the chip shop.
As Salu is a medical professional I'd be inclined to beleive him if he said it was...

Really, so are they not infalliable then, so all those who are on the sick pulling a fast one are all self diagnosed? Just because a doc say's so must be true is that what you are saying?

Xaccers
29-03-2007, 17:58
Next you'll be saying that obesity is also a disease rather than just an uncontrollable love of the chip shop. :D

Wasn't there a program a few years ago that backed up the possibility of a viral link to obesity in certain cases?
Two twins, both fed pretty much the same, led similar active lives until one started piling on the pounds.

---------- Post added at 16:58 ---------- Previous post was at 16:57 ----------

Really, so are they not infalliable then, so all those who are on the sick pulling a fast one are all self diagnosed? Just because a doc say's so must be true is that what you are saying?

I think the statement Russ made was in relation to Salu, not doctors in general.
I too would accept medical information from Salu.

Action Jackson
29-03-2007, 17:58
1. We don't know this as we don't know what the cause is, if indeed the condition exists which is the subject of continual debate. Can you justify this assertion?

2. You seem very confident of your assertions but I think you need to be less sweeping with your statements. Firstly ME has been said to be a post viral syndrome so it isn't that unlikely to be diagnosed following myocarditis?? Fatigue in general is well documented following a viral infection. So it would be a logical hypothesis.......What makes you dismiss it so easily?



ME has been documented since the early 1930s....There is also something called DaCosta's syndrome which was described in the latter half of the 19th century. It has been said this could be an early description of CFS.


It's all a lot of speculation and possibilities but nothing concrete. And while it sits in this state many people will easily jump on the bandwagon and claim that they have it. Many doctors are probably unsure as well, so it seems to me to be an easy way out at times if a doctor can't determine exactly what is wrong with the patient.


I don't doubt, like I said in a previous post, that there are real sufferers out there who are genuinely ill and can't get out of bed due to fatigue, but there are too many charlatans out there who are giving it a bad name and making it difficult to be taken seriously.

Russ
29-03-2007, 17:59
Really, so are they not infalliable then, so all those who are on the sick pulling a fast one are all self diagnosed? Just because a doc say's so must be true is that what you are saying?

I said "I'd be inclined to believe him" not "I would believe anything he said without question".

Jules
29-03-2007, 17:59
I have not found Salu to be wrong with any of the advice/statments he has made, so I am with Russ on this one

Action Jackson
29-03-2007, 18:00
Wasn't there a program a few years ago that backed up the possibility of a viral link to obesity in certain cases?
Two twins, both fed pretty much the same, led similar active lives until one started piling on the pounds.


Is that not related to thyroid problems though?


Some people become obese due to actual medical problems, but others just like to eat (anything but salad).

Xaccers
29-03-2007, 18:01
Is that not related to thyroid problems though?


Nope, not from what I remember of the program.

peanut
29-03-2007, 18:01
Wasn't there a program a few years ago that backed up the possibility of a viral link to obesity in certain cases?
Two twins, both fed pretty much the same, led similar active lives until one started piling on the pounds.

---------- Post added at 16:58 ---------- Previous post was at 16:57 ----------



I think the statement Russ made was in relation to Salu, not doctors in general.
I too would accept medical information from Salu.

I totally agree with you, Mr Sulu isn't the one in question here though. Who wouldn't accept medical info from him, but again that's not also the question here either.

Action Jackson
29-03-2007, 18:02
I said "I'd be inclined to believe him" not "I would believe anything he said without question".

Would you chop off your head if he said it would make your penis bigger? :D

Jules
29-03-2007, 18:02
Depends which head I would have thought :D

Xaccers
29-03-2007, 18:03
I totally agree with you, Mr Sulu isn't the one in question here though.

You're quite right, Mr Sulu is in America somewhere, molesting a cardboard cutout of a basketball player in the name of gay tolerance. (well that's the last place I saw him)

Action Jackson
29-03-2007, 18:05
Really, so are they not infalliable then, so all those who are on the sick pulling a fast one are all self diagnosed? Just because a doc say's so must be true is that what you are saying?

Mis-diagnosis is the reason why there are so many people who 'apparently' suffer from ME, when the truth is that they don't.

Or that so many people are registered disabled and working on the side in manual labour jobs.

It's not that difficult to fool a doctor with the right amount of effort.

Salu
30-03-2007, 13:45
Next you'll be saying that obesity is also a disease rather than just an uncontrollable love of the chip shop. :D

If that's a serious question then I would say that the answer can be either or a combination of both. Not forgetting that lack of exercise can be a huge component of weight gain.
Some obesity problems may be defined as a disorder albeit a psychological one. There are conditions where you can gain weight though other than over eating.

You've not answered my challenges about backing up your assertions though!

Really, so are they not infalliable then, so all those who are on the sick pulling a fast one are all self diagnosed? Just because a doc say's so must be true is that what you are saying?

I agree we are not infallible. We are trained to spot malingerers though but at the end of the day when there is no scientific test for a specific condition that may or may not exist, there will inevitably be errors in diagnoses.

Is that not related to thyroid problems though?


Some people become obese due to actual medical problems, but others just like to eat (anything but salad).

Most obesity is caused by the input being greater than the output, to put it simply. You appear to have little tolerance for those that struggle with this though. What is motivating your intolerance regarding apparent ME sufferers and obese people?

Mis-diagnosis is the reason why there are so many people who 'apparently' suffer from ME, when the truth is that they don't.

Or that so many people are registered disabled and working on the side in manual labour jobs.

It's not that difficult to fool a doctor with the right amount of effort.

Firstly how do you "know" they don't suffer from ME. Are you qualified to say this? Another of your sweeping statements? Of course there will always be patients that try to pull the will over the eyes of the practitioner and of the benefits organisations but I wouldn't say this could be described as "many".

Do you have a low regard for Doctors by the way?

Graham M
30-03-2007, 13:48
My Grandmother has ME and she is retired what reason would she have to "lie" she came down with a really bad chest infection that turned into Pneumonia which led to ME she can't do much during the day these days and is always stretching herself

Action Jackson
30-03-2007, 14:05
You've not answered my challenges about backing up your assertions though!


Absolutely no one has concrete proof and there are still too many unknowns concerning the condition, so I'd be hard pushed to find hard evidence to back up my assertions that certain people who claim to have ME actually don't. My opinion is purely personal, although I am not saying I am 100% correct, but that my opinion is what I believe to be true at this present time.

When more concrete proof is available I will review it and then maybe change my opinion, but until then, I will stick with what I think to be true.



Most obesity is caused by the input being greater than the output, to put it simply. You appear to have little tolerance for those that struggle with this though. What is motivating your intolerance regarding apparent ME sufferers and obese people?


Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion based on my joke (I even used a smilie to illustrate that I was joking) :confused:

I have no prejudice against obese people (unless they are sitting beside me on an aeroplane and encroaching on my space).


Firstly how do you "know" they don't suffer from ME. Are you qualified to say this? Another of your sweeping statements? Of course there will always be patients that try to pull the will over the eyes of the practitioner and of the benefits organisations but I wouldn't say this could be described as "many".

Do you have a low regard for Doctors by the way?

I am simply saying what I think. Like I said in my first post on this thread, no one knows for sure, but I can only base what I say with what I can see. I see people (I know 2 personally) that claim to have ME but seem to be able to indulge in regular physical activities that don't seem to tie up with their current condition. I am not qualified, no, but does that mean I should not have an opinion on something because I don't have formal qualifications?

I know people on disability who have been working on the side for years and laugh about how easy it is to fool the system.

I do not have low regard for doctors, quite the opposite. Again, not sure how you arrived at that conclusion from what I have said. I just said that I believed that many people work the system to get what they want and do it quite easily. That is not the doctors fault, if they are faced with a patient who claims to have a condition that can't be definitively diagnosed, then what is the doctor meant to do? Surely they have to take the word of the patient that they are stressed/depressed/have a sore back/always tired etc.

peanut
30-03-2007, 14:07
I agree we are not infallible. We are trained to spot malingerers though but at the end of the day when there is no scientific test for a specific condition that may or may not exist, there will inevitably be errors in diagnoses.


Are you saying ME is a condition that may or may not exist? How can you diagnose it then in the first place.

Context is everything, and by reading this thread, the context has been taken totally out of proportion, mostly in defence.

Stuart
30-03-2007, 14:13
1. You can't 'catch' ME.

No, but it is often discovered when a patient does not recover from another disease.


2. She obviously didn't have ME then if it turned out to be a virus which attacked the muscles in her heart(ME is not a virus and can't be definitively diagnosed). She was obviously suffering from something else entirely.

Viruses, while not the sole cause of ME are one of the causes.


3. She managed to go to the gym 3 times a week, but still thought she had ME? :confused:
I don't believe he said that. I believe he said that she went to the gym BEFORE the ME..

BTW, regarding diagnosis, you might want to read http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/ramsey.html

Action Jackson
30-03-2007, 14:19
Context is everything, and by reading this thread, the context has been taken totally out of proportion, mostly in defence.


This is exactly true and is leading to great frustration on my part.


I have pointed out on a couple of occasions that I am not having a go at people who genuinely appear to be suffering from this condition, but highlighting that many people claim to be suffering from it as it is an easy condition to fool doctors into believing you have, simply because it can't be definitively diagnosed.


Doesn't seem to matter how many times I say that, I still get people having a go saying that people are genuinely suffering from ME and I shouldn't be having a go at them (I know that there are REAL PEOPLE SUFFERING FROM ME, I really do), telling me I'm not a doctor so I shouldn't have an opinion on something (something that even qualified doctors are unsure of) and now I have a poster saying that I am being disrespectful and having a pop at doctors. Incredible!

---------- Post added at 13:19 ---------- Previous post was at 13:17 ----------

No, but it is often discovered when a patient does not recover from another disease.


Viruses, while not the sole cause of ME are one of the causes.


I don't believe he said that. I believe he said that she went to the gym BEFORE the ME..

BTW, regarding diagnosis, you might want to read http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/ramsey.html


Fair enough. The story just didn't seem to hang very well together so I seem to have misinterpreted parts of it. My mistake. :)

Ramrod
30-03-2007, 14:26
1. You can't 'catch' ME.Hang on, you can't say that since we don't yet really know what causes it......

peanut
30-03-2007, 14:27
Hang on, you can't say that since we don't yet really know what causes it......

Or even if it really exist.

Jules
30-03-2007, 14:31
It does exist, I am 100% convinced of that

Action Jackson
30-03-2007, 14:32
Hang on, you can't say that since we don't yet really know what causes it......

I think that most people in the medical profession agree that ME is not a viral/bacterial infection in itself, but most likely occurs/is the consequence after you have suffered from some other kind of infection (in the case of TRUE sufferers that is).


But I suppose you are right, no one knows 100%.

Ramrod
30-03-2007, 14:39
I think that most people in the medical profession agree that ME is not a viral/bacterial infection in itself, but most likely occurs/is the consequence after you have suffered from some other kind of infection (in the case of TRUE sufferers that is).So you accept that the condition does exist?
.......because in post #! you said:
Sorry, but I'm just not convinced as to the validity of this condition......but you now do seem to accept that it exists.......

Action Jackson
30-03-2007, 14:55
So you accept that the condition does exist?


I have already covered this I believe, but maybe not clearly.


I believe that there are people out there who genuinely can't get out of bed because of CFS(Chronic Fatigue Syndrome). They have no way of life because they are basically bed ridden due to this.

There now seems to be many classifications which are virtually all the same but with very slight differences (CFS, ME, PVFS and CFIDS).

The term ME seems to have been invented to encapsulate the average Joe who tells his doctor that he is feeling a bit tired (but manages to go to the gym).

So I suppose to simplify it, I believe in the people who have true CFS but not in the lazy bloke who insists he has ME.



Also, to the bloke whose wife apparently had ME after getting a virus: She would have actually been suffering from PVFS(Post Viral Fatigue Syndrome).

There seems to be confusion over the classification of these conditions and in respect to putting people in the proper condition category.

Vlad_Dracul
30-03-2007, 23:12
My wife has had this illness for the last 15 years , she used to go to the gym 3 times a week , worked for the Health service ( Sister's Post ) until she caught it. They eventually found out after 3 years ! that it was caused by a virus which attacked the muscles of her heart, I do agree that some people use it as an excuse but I do get a bit miffed when people who have not
(a) suffered from it or
(b) have to care for somone who has it,
making judgement calls on it and putting it down to stress or some other excuse. :erm:

I wonder if you could describe the symptoms as fully as possible please?

Maggy
31-03-2007, 00:20
Ah another troll like thread...

Set up a contentious posting and then when someone with actual direct experience or even better someone with professional training in the subject matter pops up to answer that you are talking from ignorance,they claim that they were just voicing an opinion and that there is a clique against them...and that they only started the subject up to air the subject when in reality they began it to cause an uproar.

Good day to you and I'm off to put another person on ignore.

Damien
31-03-2007, 00:38
Mis-diagnosis is the reason why there are so many people who 'apparently' suffer from ME, when the truth is that they don't.

Or that so many people are registered disabled and working on the side in manual labour jobs.

It's not that difficult to fool a doctor with the right amount of effort.

This is presuming you know more than the Doctor then?

peanut
31-03-2007, 00:43
Ah another troll like thread...

Set up a contentious posting and then when someone with actual direct experience or even better someone with professional training in the subject matter pops up to answer that you are talking from ignorance,they claim that they were just voicing an opinion and that there is a clique against them...and that they only started the subject up to air the subject when in reality they began it to cause an uproar.

Good day to you and I'm off to put another person on ignore.

Here we go. :rolleyes:

Ramrod
31-03-2007, 00:50
So I suppose to simplify it, I believe in the people who have true CFS but not in the lazy bloke who insists he has ME.
So basically, you are saying that some people have it and some people don't....but say they do? :D

---------- Post added at 23:50 ---------- Previous post was at 23:47 ----------



There seems to be confusion over the classification of these conditions and in respect to putting people in the proper condition category.Of course there is confusion.....they can't even agree as to whether they even really exist.

Wicked_and_Crazy
31-03-2007, 01:15
Ah another troll like thread...

Set up a contentious posting and then when someone with actual direct experience or even better someone with professional training in the subject matter pops up to answer that you are talking from ignorance,they claim that they were just voicing an opinion and that there is a clique against them...and that they only started the subject up to air the subject when in reality they began it to cause an uproar.

Good day to you and I'm off to put another person on ignore.

oh, come on!! even the professionals are still discussing this and have no agreement as to whether it exists or not. Its a sure fact that there are a lot of people claiming off of the state for this so called condition however they appear to be fit enough to do social activities. Like anything else if it cant be proved then people will take advantage.

Action Jackson
31-03-2007, 05:36
Ah another troll like thread...

Set up a contentious posting and then when someone with actual direct experience or even better someone with professional training in the subject matter pops up to answer that you are talking from ignorance,they claim that they were just voicing an opinion and that there is a clique against them...and that they only started the subject up to air the subject when in reality they began it to cause an uproar.

Good day to you and I'm off to put another person on ignore.

I'm gutted.

Russ
31-03-2007, 06:47
Ah another troll like thread...

Set up a contentious posting and then when someone with actual direct experience or even better someone with professional training in the subject matter pops up to answer that you are talking from ignorance,they claim that they were just voicing an opinion and that there is a clique against them...and that they only started the subject up to air the subject when in reality they began it to cause an uproar.


:clap: :clap: :clap:

Hammer + nail = hit on the head.

Wicked_and_Crazy
31-03-2007, 10:18
:clap: :clap: :clap:

Hammer + nail = hit on the head.

I thought one of the points of discusion forums was to allow debate. Therefore its vaild to raise a subject like this and move it on and on. People will offer views, who knows if theyre right or not, its a debate and they theyre views.

Russ
31-03-2007, 10:34
So I'm not allowed to give my own opinion? Is it coz I is bald?

Action Jackson
31-03-2007, 14:25
Ah another troll like thread...

Set up a contentious posting and then when someone with actual direct experience or even better someone with professional training in the subject matter pops up to answer that you are talking from ignorance,they claim that they were just voicing an opinion and that there is a clique against them...and that they only started the subject up to air the subject when in reality they began it to cause an uproar.

Good day to you and I'm off to put another person on ignore.


To address this properly......


1. After reading an article about ME and knowing 2 people personally who claim to have this condition (but lead very active lives), I thought it would simply be a good discussion point for an open forum. I enjoy debating serious topics and thought that a forum was the place to debate these issues.

2. Having someone who is professionally qualified is a great thing for the debate. It brings a more informed point of view into the mix and that can only help open up the debate. I think if you read back then I have not said that I was right and everyone was wrong, but simply argued my opinion and conceded the fact that I may be completely wrong. Is that not what you are supposed to do in a debate or can we not have an opinion on something unless we are professionally qualified in that subject?

3. At all times throughout this discussion all I have done is argue my point. At no point have I dismissed anyone's point of view or been personally insulting or aggressive. I have made my best effort to keep the debate flowing and on track and ignore people (or at least not engage them at any great level) who just seem hell bent on derailing the thread and having a pop at me (often by way of some incredible misinterpretations of what I have posted).

4. At no point have I mentioned a clique against me. But I do wonder why certain posters come on the thread with no intention of properly entering the debate, but instead come out with statements like "so you know more than the doctors then?".

5. Should we not raise contentious subjects that are worthy of debate? Is that not allowed? Is it because it encourages serious discussion? Should I just make posts about the weather or what my favourite tv programme is?

6. You probably won't get to see this reply because you will already have me on ignore by now.

Ramrod
31-03-2007, 17:01
To address this properly......


1. After reading an article about ME and knowing 2 people personally who claim to have this condition (but lead very active lives)I feel that I have to address these two points in particular.
Reading an article is hardly serious research on a topic, it barely scratches the surface.
This condition affects different people to varying amounts. Some people will be completely debilitated by it and others will be able to fight it and try to lead normal lives.....so knowing only two people who claim to have it is also not a very good starting position to base your opinions on....

---------- Post added at 16:01 ---------- Previous post was at 16:00 ----------

So I'm not allowed to give my own opinion? Is it coz I is bald?I dunno.....are you really bald or just a wannabee? ;) :D

Jules
31-03-2007, 17:10
Does baldness exist or is it just people that want to keep their heads cool and pretend it is a mystery thing called baldness?? :D

Hugh
31-03-2007, 21:46
Does baldness exist or is it just people that want to keep their heads cool and pretend it is a mystery thing called baldness?? :D

And are they really "suffering" from baldness, or do they pop home for a quick pluck, then complain that they suffer from a "mystery complaint". ;)

Ramrod
31-03-2007, 23:10
And are they really "suffering" from baldness, or do they pop home for a quick pluck, then complain that they suffer from a "mystery complaint". ;)
Confucius say: 'You can hide much in plain view' :D

ATB
16-07-2011, 11:52
Why do heart or cancer patients not go ballistic whenever it becomes known that some hypochondriac had falsely claimed to suffer a heart attack or some form of cancer? This behaviour of ME patients seems to be unique to their condition.

Usually we have little compassion for the victims of fraud, because usually they were expecting to get something out of it, drawn into the scam through some flaw of their own, whether greed or acute stupidity.

However, the victims of people who falsely claim to have ME, were duped because they were compassionate and trusting: elderly parents, caring friends, whose every last drop of sympathy and compassion is squeezed out over years to offer free accommodation and a free pass in everything until they, too, in these dark economic times can no longer host the parasite. Strange how he can suddenly solve all his problems and stand on his own two feet.

MovedGoalPosts
16-07-2011, 11:59
You do realise how old this thread is that you just bumped?

Maggy
16-07-2011, 12:00
You do realise that you have replied to a thread that is 4 years old and has long since lapsed into obscurity?

techguyone
16-07-2011, 16:11
heh, I don't mind, it's something I hadn't seen before, and its an interesting subject.

I don't know why people make a big deal about necro posts, especially on bigger sites with posts that will not have been seen by newer folks.