View Full Version : Traffic Management extended
to Bradford.
The existing throttling has been active for 7 months now.
(customer)
This is just getting ridiculous now. My '10mb' speed is less than 5mb
tonight. Although I live in the trial area I believe it shouldn't be like
this as I have only just started using it
(Virgin Media support)
The trial does not discriminate. It is set up on certain UBRs and affects
everybody on the UBR equally.
(customer)
So just to clarify, ALL the people on my area will be throttled - regardless of how they use their connection ? So I am being throttled EVERY night ?
(Virgin Media support)
No response as yet.
xspeedyx
24-03-2007, 12:53
So tell me something do u need to max out ur connection that bad seriously companies have to manger these things and yes u do pay however is it that important u max ur connection if it is then u really need a life from ur internet
Try it again with added punctuation..it is a tremendous aid to communication.:tu:
After all you are not being charged for every character or spacing that you use in this forum.;)
slowcoach
24-03-2007, 13:28
Is VOD going to be traffic managed as well, V+ downloading multiple shows is surely going to have an effect on Broadband, isn't it?
All traffic on the connection is being throttled.
Is VOD going to be traffic managed as well, V+ downloading multiple shows is surely going to have an effect on Broadband, isn't it?Different system completely so to answer your question NO. Vod does not use the cable modem system at all.
---------- Post added at 14:22 ---------- Previous post was at 14:19 ----------
All traffic on the connection is being throttled.
TV will not be and anyone that says it is has no idea what so ever about the cable network.
I have heard so many scare stories put about by those who talk the talk but have no idea how to walk the walk. In other words have completely no idea what they hell they are talking about and just want to scare people..
. It does not use the same system unless you can prove me wrong and one point to remember i have worked on the cable tv, Broadband and telco network for 13 years :).
Broadband is individually traffic shaped on each UBR that it is applied on. So if you leech torrents like mad between 4.00pm till 12.00pm you and you only will be shaped. If your Neighbour who will be on the same UBR does not leech like mad then he will NOT be shaped. Shaping will reduce your download by 50% after you have exceeded a set amount determined by amount or time downloading.
At the same time during these hours there is general shaping of certain types of traffic to allow other users to use there connection for surfing and gaming. Why should those maxing there connection at peak times be allowed to affect those who do not. I am a heavy downloader myself (400 gig last month alone), However i do not download heavily at peak times so i do not affect other users.
Traffic shaping is now being used by most ISP's and is being considered by all others as a way of controlling the ever increasing amount of p2p traffic on there networks.
Oh hell, not this again.
Please use the search feature, this subject has been discussed ad nausium.
Oh hell, not this again.
Please use the search feature, this subject has been discussed ad nausium.
All these network Experts :LOL:
Oh hell, not this again.
Please use the search feature, this subject has been discussed ad nausium.
I think if the trials are being extended or it's being rolled out across the country (which I hope it is) then a fresh thread would be useful rather than the old thread being bumped since that one was full of what ifs from people not being shaped as opposed to live experiences of shaping.
I think if the trials are being extended or it's being rolled out across the country (which I hope it is) then a fresh thread would be useful rather than the old thread being bumped since that one was full of what ifs from people not being shaped as opposed to live experiences of shaping.
Why do you say you hope it is?!
I pay for a 10mbit connection(soon to be 20mbit) and don't expect it to be throttled down to 5mbit as that's just stupid! My area can handle 10mbit so i expect to get what i pay for.
Traffic shaping is targetted at those who download excessive ammounts of data as far as I know, if this is the case then I think it's fair enough to protect other users on the network from those that abuse it.
Traffic shaping is targetted at those who download excessive ammounts of data as far as I know, if this is the case then I think it's fair enough to protect other users on the network from those that abuse it.
Why does a person who pays for a product, get classed as an abuser for using it?
For your information, Virgin do not discriminate about who they throttle. They throttle the top 5%, the 5% who happen to be downloading at full speed at any one time. That 5% then goes down the queue, and a new 5% are given a go. Both at being at the top of the queue and being throttled. So by your thinking everybody that pays Virgin Media for an internet connection is an abuser.
Why they have decided to make matters worse by uplifting the speeds to 20Mb, only SKY knows.
And you have been given this information on their traffic shaping from who?
And you have been given this information on their traffic shaping from who?
It's common knowledge if you're a Virgin Media customer. :dunce:
State your sources then if it's common knowledge. Without proof your post is nothing that can be taken as gospel. As a VM BB customer I can truly say that it has never cropped in any correspondence that I have ever had with VM or NTL as they were.
It was discussed months ago in the internal blueyonder groups when the throttling was underway. Both Fergal Butler and Alex Brown were in the discussion.
Second hand info unless backed up with linkage, how many months ago was this?
[Admin Edit(Mick)-Personal remarks Removed]
homealone
24-03-2007, 18:02
Admin Edit
ok I've met him & it is his photo - what has that got to do with you not being able to backup your statement regarding the bandwidth throttling?
Last I saw it was people dowloading at full whack over a 2 hour period at peak time, not, as you said 'at any one time', who were being throttled - but that wasn't confirmed by any official source :)
It's common knowledge if you're a Virgin Media customer. :dunce:
You have wrong information. It does not work that way anymore. Thats all i am saying on the subject.
---------- Post added at 18:05 ---------- Previous post was at 18:02 ----------
Admin Edit
Losing the plot so resorts to abuse. Seen it all before. :rolleyes:
Admin Edit
My person bashing sense (PBS) is tingling, Ether that or I have a bad itch somewhere!
He's only asking for the sources to your post. You know I've noticed this quite a bit when people don't like what they are reading (Not that I'm saying that your insulting anyone. ) they tend to attack the person who wrote the reply instead of staying on topic whether the information discussed is true or not so.
ok I've met him & it is his photo - what has that got to do with you not being able to backup your statement regarding the bandwidth throttling?
Last I saw it was people dowloading at full whack over a 2 hour period at peak time, not, as you said 'at any one time', who were being throttled - but that wasn't confirmed by any official source :)
If that was what he is unsure of, then I have badly worded it. I meant at any one time in the sense of at any one time during the throttling hours.
As he mentioned it was a good thing for abusers to be throttled, then I naturally assumed he was asking for proof that it wasn't just those that were being throttled, but everyone.
---------- Post added at 18:10 ---------- Previous post was at 18:08 ----------
You have wrong information. It does not work that way anymore. Thats all i am saying on the subject.
Do you have proof?
Alex and Fergal haven't said otherwise.
---------- Post added at 18:05 ---------- Previous post was at 18:02 ----------
Losing the plot so resorts to abuse. Seen it all before. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Not at all. It was an example of him asking for proof.
Well It's like this..I know Bill C.He's reliable,honest and a regular contributor to this forum.He's also someone who works for VM and is therefore the one who knows what he's talking about.Anyone else is an unproven source until Bill says otherwise.:tu:
How do I know all this about Bill?Because he has proved himself time after time with the reliability of his info....and he does know better than The Man Down The Pub...;)
Oh as for Paul he too is someone I trust...He'll go an extra 10 miles out of his way to help another and when he asks for proof as anyone is entitled to do so in these forums he isn't out to get you..he just want's to be sure that the info is kosher as do the rest of us..we have seen too many rumours started over nothing more than something, someone heard down the pub.
Not at all. It was an example of him asking for proof.
Not a very good example tbh..
Stop crying everyone!
I'm not crying.. :Yikes: Back on topic!
____________________________
Shaping wouldn't bother me.. I rarely download files. It would really only effect people who download those 20 odd 'linux' ;) distros
homealone
24-03-2007, 18:20
If that was what he is unsure of, then I have badly worded it. I meant at any one time in the sense of at any one time during the throttling hours.
As he mentioned it was a good thing for abusers to be throttled, then I naturally assumed he was asking for proof that it wasn't just those that were being throttled, but everyone.
---------- Post added at 18:10 ---------- Previous post was at 18:08 ----------
Do you have proof?
Alex and Fergal haven't said otherwise.
---------- Post added at 18:05 ---------- Previous post was at 18:02 ----------
Losing the plot so resorts to abuse. Seen it all before. :rolleyes:
Not at all. It was an example of him asking for proof.
The thing is, that to the best of my knowledge VM have never officially confirmed 'how' they do the traffic management, just that it does happen.
Given the choice my personal instinct would be to believe Bill C, it is just a shame that his non disclosure agreement prevents him saying any more :)
Well It's like this..I know Bill C.He's reliable,honest and a regular contributor to this forum.He's also someone who works for VM and is therefore the one who knows what he's talking about.Anyone else is an unproven source until Bill says otherwise.:tu:
How do I know all this about Bill?Because he has proved himself time after time with the reliability of his info....and he does know better than The Man Down The Pub...;)
Oh as for Paul he too is someone I trust...He'll go an extra 10 miles out of his way to help another and when he asks for proof as anyone is entitled to do so in these forums he isn't out to get you..he just want's to be sure that the info is kosher as do the rest of us..we have seen too many rumours started over nothing more than something, someone heard down the pub.
With all respect.
Bill says "You have wrong information. It does not work that way anymore. Thats all i am saying on the subject."
As this is a Virgin Media forum, and Bill works for Virgin Media. Bill could squash any statement made if it's not beneficial to Virgin Media, by sayin "you're wrong" and that's it? :rolleyes:
it is just a shame that his non disclosure agreement prevents him saying any more :)
They are there just in case something messes up & it can then be classed as a fault.. :p
The thing is, that to the best of my knowledge VM have never officially confirmed 'how' they do the traffic management, just that it does happen.
Given the choice my personal instinct would be to believe Bill C, it is just a shame that his non disclosure agreement prevents him saying any more :)
They have confirmed how they do traffic shaping. The 5% and top of the queue was how they were doing it. Don't believe me though, I'm not Bill :confused:
The posts were made in the blueyonder internal groups a while back, and I'm sure Bill will confirm that all the internal groups usenet history was lost a short while ago. After all these years and just as blueyonder change to Virgin, all the life history gets lost forever. Where's the 'cynical' icon?
With all respect.
Bill says "You have wrong information. It does not work that way anymore. Thats all i am saying on the subject."
As this is a Virgin Media forum, and Bill works for Virgin Media. Bill could squash any statement made if it's not beneficial to Virgin Media, by sayin "you're wrong" and that's it? :rolleyes:
Simple question for you.
Do you understand what a none disclosure agreement is ?
I have no intention of releasing information which could possibly allow someone to circumnavigate the shaping in place NOW not 2 -3 months ago.
Saying that all traffic is shaped is wrong. Are you for instance claiming that it affects TV and vod ?.
homealone
24-03-2007, 18:33
With all respect.
Bill says "You have wrong information. It does not work that way anymore. Thats all i am saying on the subject."
As this is a Virgin Media forum, and Bill works for Virgin Media. Bill could squash any statement made if it's not beneficial to Virgin Media, by sayin "you're wrong" and that's it? :rolleyes:
In my experience Bill speaks as he finds, I don't recall him ever showing any bias, which is why his posts command so much respect on the forum.
I agree with what you say in principle, but in this instance I'd assert that Bill would only say if something is wrong because it is, not to suit any agenda :)
With all respect.
Bill says "You have wrong information. It does not work that way anymore. Thats all i am saying on the subject."
As this is a Virgin Media forum, and Bill works for Virgin Media. Bill could squash any statement made if it's not beneficial to Virgin Media, by sayin "you're wrong" and that's it? :rolleyes:
So know you reckon I'm easliy duped?:rolleyes:
Bill cannot tell ALL he knows because he IS a VM employee..But if you are saying things that are incorrect he can tell you that you are wrong.He is a reliable member of this site in that respect..but of course you carry on making a fool of yourself..It is no skin of my nose.:)
Simple question for you.
Do you understand what a none disclosure agreement is ?
I have no intention of releasing information which could possibly allow someone to circumnavigate the shaping in place NOW not 2 -3 months ago.
Saying that all traffic is shaped is wrong. Are you for instance claiming that it affects TV and vod ?.
Yes Bill.
Nobody's asking you to Bill?
When I said 'all traffic is shaped' I meant internet traffic. AFAIA you can't shape the TV.
Simple question for you Bill.
Can you confirm that the trial has been extended to Bradford, and that the 5% and top of queue, irrespective of whether you are a regular heavy downloader or not, is and was the case?
Thanks Bill.
---------- Post added at 18:48 ---------- Previous post was at 18:46 ----------
So know you reckon I'm easliy duped?:rolleyes:
Is that 'So now you think I'm easily duped?' ?
What did I think you were easy for last time?
I don't know, are you? ;)
Simple question for you Bill.
Can you confirm that the trial has been extended to Bradford, and that the 5% and top of queue, irrespective of whether you are a regular heavy downloader or not, is and was the case?
Thanks Bill.
Can you confirm that the trial has been extended to BradfordNo
that the 5% and top of queue, irrespective of whether you are a regular heavy downloader or not, is and was the case?
Was the case. Is not the case now
From the information i was supplied about the system when i discovered that i was being shaped at 50%, Its now applied to individual users who exceed a set amount over a set time frame. They are changing the parameters all the time to make sure they have a fair system that does not affect the odd big download and only targets those that max there connection fully within the set time frame. To me no download is that life threatening that i must download constantly during peek times.
This is my speed at the moment. I have just done a 1.2 gig download before this.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2007/03/20.png
No
Well it has Bill ;)
Was the case. Is not the case now
From the information i was supplied about the system when i discovered that i was being shaped at 50%, Its now applied to individual users who exceed a set amount over a set time frame. They are changing the parameters all the time to make sure they have a fair system that does not affect the odd big download and only targets those that max there connection fully within the set time frame. To me no download is that life threatening that i must download constantly during peek times.
In your opinion Bill, don't you think that it's really silly selling a blazingly fast connection to thousands of people, and then doubling that blazingly fast connection, and selling that one too to thousands of people, and be surprised that it's being used?
We should go back to dial-up, or get rid of Usenet and all them places that are suitable for a double blazingly fast internet connection.
Don't you think so Bill? ;)
In your opinion Bill, don't you think that it's really silly selling a blazingly fast connection to thousands of people, and then doubling that blazingly fast connection, and selling that one too to thousands of people, and be surprised that it's being used?
We should go back to dial-up, or get rid of Usenet and all them places that are suitable for a double blazingly fast internet connection.
Don't you think so Bill? ;)
There are 3 reasons why traffic shaping is needed at the moment.
People are constantly complaining they want faster speeds and will move to who ever will give them that.
The downloading of films, music and HD content both from P2P and from Newsgroups is increasing faster than the Isp's can upgrade there networks.
People want a as near free deal as they can drag out of there Isp's. And because of this there is not enough money to spend on much needed upgrade.
Its a 2 edged sword :)
Them are really interesting points Bill.
Especially coming from someone who works for Virgin Media.
I like the bit about people will move ISP for faster speeds, and they can't afford to upgrade their network, most ;)
Meltdown :Yikes:
See! Now we have a debate going...:tu: Now if it stays civilised...;)
RedDragon
24-03-2007, 20:13
I really must stop reading threads like this, some peoples attitudes and disrespect for those who are trying to give help and information just winds me up! I'm a VM employee but live in a non cabled estate so BT supply my phone line and I pay for an 'up to' 8 meg connection, bit of a laugh as the fastest my line is capable of is 512kps, so if your not happy come and join the Really hard done by!
I don't think there's much more Bill can say.
He's already said that Virgin Media have only brought out the 20Mb due to faster speeds available elsewhere, but as a result of keeping the customers by bringing out a tempting 20Mb, they can't afford to upgrade their network for it to be able to work, so will have to throttle everyone to half of what they're paying for, because they can't afford to upgrade the network. And they get more money coming in for less money they have to pay out.
Result! ;)
Go and ask in the groups. Then you can stop asking someone for proof for everything. I want proof that's you that looks cool in the photo and not some other dork trying to look cool instead pimp:
Oh please!
maverick
24-03-2007, 20:21
I don't think there's much more Bill can say.
He's already said that Virgin Media have only brought out the 20Mb due to faster speeds available elsewhere, but as a result of keeping the customers by bringing out a tempting 20Mb, they can't afford to upgrade their network for it to be able to work, so will have to throttle everyone to half of what they're paying for, because they can't afford to upgrade the network. And they get more money coming in for less money they have to pay out.
Result! ;)
Wrong,they are not throttling everyone I certainly have not had my connection cut in half.
I suppose the reason for this is I am not taking the mickey with my download's.
Oh please!
It is him. homealone said it was.
You can calm down now :angel:
---------- Post added at 20:27 ---------- Previous post was at 20:26 ----------
Wrong,they are not throttling everyone
"so will have to "
Wrong,they are not throttling everyone I certainly have not had my connection cut in half.
I suppose the reason for this is I am not taking the mickey with my download's.
Well yes.
I think there is common error in thinking that if one particular uBR is being affected, then all customers on that uBR are reduced.
It's not, the reduction is one those customers affecting traffic flow for the others.
I see no reason for this thread to remain open if we insist on discussing anything but Traffic management. Back on topic please.
greenlantern64
24-03-2007, 20:42
Hi anyone interested in traffic shapeing should read the latest issue of "Micro mart" they have an artical about rip off uk broadband. They relate some information given to then some time back from VM sateing why, and when they do shaping, and how it is within the user agreement etc. Very interesting reading
Them are really interesting points Bill.
Especially coming from someone who works for Virgin Media.
I like the bit about people will move ISP for faster speeds, and they can't afford to upgrade their network, most ;)
Meltdown :Yikes:
That can be taken for any isp at the moment. I have worked on a lot of Isp's ADSL kit as well and everything i see happening to cable is happening to ADSL isp's as well. As for the twisting of words if you start that i will stop here and now. If its one thing i cannot stand is someone trying to win Brownie points i find it extremely childish. I would like to have a grownup conversation not a lets see what he will say so we can twist it
So as you seem to want to twist my words i hereby put you and your childish attics on a ignore and i hope others will ignore you as well . Hope you enjoy your diminishing readership on this thread.
That can be taken for any isp at the moment. I have worked on a lot of Isp's ADSL kit as well and everything i see happening to cable is happening to ADSL isp's as well. As for the twisting of words if you start that i will stop here and now. If its one thing i cannot stand is someone trying to win Brownie points i find it extremely childish. I would like to have a grownup conversation not a lets see what he will say so we can twist it.
I'm not twisting your words Bill.
You just said that what you see Virgin doing, ADSL is doing too. And as you said I'm twisting your words, then whatever I say in response is probably pointless.
---------- Post added at 20:57 ---------- Previous post was at 20:55 ----------
I see no reason for this thread to remain open if we insist on discussing anything but Traffic management. Back on topic please.
Shouldn't this posted be deleted too, as it's in relation to the posts that have been deleted.
Shouldn't this posted be deleted too, as it's in relation to the posts that have been deleted.
No. My posts stays and if you question me again about it, I'll suspend your account.
No. My posts stays and if you question me again about it, I'll suspend your account.
It confused me even though I knew what it was referring to.
Off topic posts stop NOW. Any more posts that aren't strictly about traffic management will be deleted and/or further action taken.
It is strange, I've been 'trying' to follow these threads for information on all types of things regarding throttling, limits, aup's, fup's and I think I've read them all now, yet the amount of contradictions and confusions I still can't say one way or another to what's what.
It is strange, I've been 'trying' to follow these threads for information on all types of things regarding throttling, limits, aup's, fup's and I think I've read them all now, yet the amount of contradictions and confusions I still can't say one way or another to what's what.
This is what Bill said, he works for Virgin Media.
People want a as near free deal as they can drag out of there Isp's. And because of this there is not enough money to spend on much needed upgrade.
That is why IMO they're going to implement throttling to all customers all across the board. Some customers complain that they wish they can sort out the connection they provide now, before they go and cause more problems by selling a connection that will only cause more problems to the already much needed, upgrades to the network.
Over utilisation is mentioned by support as to why users are receiving slow connections, all the time.
Throttling is an easy way out of helping to solve the problem.
I would like to see this Traffic Management Shape those that hammer their connections and not hammer those that do not, my total down loads this month only comes to a staggering 9 gig not including web traffic and mails.
Yet I get my connection reduced, looking at it from my point of view I am getting slapped due to others hammering their connections who are on the same UBR, so I might has well join them and down load more Linux ISO's.
But what will this do? put everything back to square one.
If a connection is tagged unlimited then it should be unlimited which I see this most part everyone agree's, so why not say the connection has a usage policy.
But there again a FUP hinders sale's or does it?
Then we will all know what to expect when it kicks in instead of just throwing in a Traffic Management system and then stating
"oh there's a problem on the server your on and there's no date for a fix but we are working on one." The words of VM support.
Do not get me wrong I have no problems if you heavy users want to get all the downloads you can been there and done it, after all you are paying for a "unlimited connection" and therefore it should be unlimited.
If this post is off topic then please move it to one of the other threads that are discussing a similar topic.
The Fair Useage Policy is in very small print.
It's the UNLIMITED that's in bold you can't miss it print ;)
This is my usage for the last 18 months, not bad at all really considering i download whatever i want to and currently aren't being shaped and that's on 10mbit. Most of those figures are far below the original 75gig cap that NTL imposed on the 10mbit service before they changed it to unlimited.
This is my usage for the last 18 months, not bad at all really considering i download whatever i want to and currently aren't being shaped and that's on 10mbit. Most of those figures are far below the original 75gig cap that NTL imposed on the 10mbit service before they changed it to unlimited.
Which program is that?
And all of those months are under 75Gb, not just most of them :)
Which program is that?
If you mean the one in the screencap it's Bandwidth Monitor Pro (http://www.bandwidthmonitorpro.com/) I use the same one.
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