View Full Version : Dialup Backup
I'm having cable BB installed on the 13th and thought I would have a dialup backup in case of an outage. How ever I have tried four different providers and each one gives the same symtoms.
I config a new internet connection, and on pressing the dial button I get a nice clear dialing tone, but when it actually dials the sound is distorted and when it has finished dialing there is a brief silence and then a BT operator says 'please hang up and try again later'. It has got to be my end as each provider I try gives the same result.
Any useful suggestions would be appreciated.
I am using the built in Smart Link 56k voice modem
Ron.
have you checked that your connection is not set-up to dial 9 (or indeed something else) for an outside line?
Mr Clean
08-03-2007, 19:48
Try putting 1470,, before the ISP number in the connection. Might be if you with-hold your number. (1470 will show the ISP your number. ,, will pause before dialing the ISP number)
Do you have any call barring on your line to 08** numbers or anything?
Good thinking M8, but no it is a private line.
But thanks for the post.
Ron.
P.S Jamgood, I do have to put 1470 as a pefex I remembered that in my dialup days, again good thinking.
R
Mr Clean
08-03-2007, 19:55
OK. here a test.
Try dialing your ISP number from your phone handset. Check you get the modem noise. If not, it's your line. If you do, it's your connection/modem.
Bored Cable Cust
08-03-2007, 21:27
The only other thing it may be if your line works ok connecting to the ISP with your hanset is the polarity of the phone line...
Normal handset use will not be affected if the polarity is reversed but fax or modem functionality will be severly disrupted (imagine puuting the batteries in something the wrong way round). once you tried establishing your equip is OK testing as described above by Jamgood, then you may want to have the polarity checked. You can call your phone supplier and have them check it for you but this will mean sending an engineer out and may incur charges if there is no fault.
To test it yourself you'll need a multimeter capable of testing up to at least 50VDC. Take the front of your telephone socket and place the positive probe on the connection marked 2 and the negative probe on the connection marked 5 you should read anywhere between 42-49VDC on a VM line or just over 50VDCon a BT line. If your needle drops like a stone or if your using a digital meter, get a negative reading your polarity is wrong.
To rectify, simply swap the wires over between 2 & 5. This was a common fault I used to be called out for in the days before cable modems. (but we had an easier way of checking... plug test phone into socket and press the polarity button.. Green - Good, Red - Bad) :)
Hope this helps
colin-bennett
08-03-2007, 21:46
as you have tried several ip providers it is a problem your end. Quick question.
do you have free voice mail as this will affect conection due to the dialing tone
Graham M
08-03-2007, 21:54
as you have tried several ip providers it is a problem your end. Quick question.
do you have free voice mail as this will affect conection due to the dialing tone
He is not getting a problem with the Dial Tone however?
maverick
08-03-2007, 21:58
A couple of things to try
Switch the modem to pulse dialling instead of tone.
You could also try inserting a few comma's into the number for example
,0800,000,0000 this slows the dialling down and help's with connection problem,s
colin-bennett
08-03-2007, 22:20
the stuttered dialing tone generated from v/m affects dial out from comps and WILL affect connection via a modem over telco.
Jamgood,
Yes, I did try getting the modem noise by dialing the ISP number on mu handset & it was OK.
*****
BCC Thanks for the suggestions I have copied & pasted your answer to print out. Will do that tomorrow. Will give Fluke meter a job after a few years being idle. ;)
****
Maverick,
Not sure how to switch modem to pulse dialing, but will try your comma test, will come back to you on that tonight.
Thank you all for the help.
Ron
---------- Post added at 22:44 ---------- Previous post was at 22:21 ----------
colin bennet,
No I don't have voice mail, and I can understand that it could well affect the dialing.
****
Maverick, unfortunately the commas didn't help, they did as you say slow the dialing down but it was still distorted.
You'll all get fedup with me.:)
Ron.
colin-bennett
08-03-2007, 23:20
quick question again.
Do you have any telco features assigned to youir line?.
I have known people have call barring still trying to dial out with the comp.
Have you changed any telco features recently as this can also affect the switch if not correctly assigned by your provider.
CB,
I do have the 'cannot do a 1471' on my line, but I had that when I was on dialup, and providing you prefix it with 1470 it kills that.
This is getting to be a challenge, sorry to cause all thew head scratching.
I will check the polarity tomorrow, but then again the only thing that has changed since I had dialup is ADSL when I changed to BB, oh and of course Orange putting their LLU on my line, but then my telephone is OK, and I have tried the dialup modem with and without a filter and no difference.
Ron.
colin-bennett
09-03-2007, 00:11
hi again
So you have orange BB on your adsl line.
Long shot but had friend who whenever phone rang BB conection lost and visa versa.
Bad news is that he still has problem and to date no one is able to find resolution over his BT line.
I may be wide of the mark here but has this problem arrisen after you had BBI vis adsl...
Bored Cable Cust,
You are not going to believe this, With the pos probe on No2 & neg on No5 I get 47.2 VDC Now.......with the neg probe on 2 and the pos probe on No5 I get 47.2 VDC. (using a Fluke 75) It is a BT line.
Do you think this could be the problem. We do have an extension upstairs but this was fitted by a BT engineer so should be correctly fitted.
I look forward to your comments.
Ron.
---------- Post added at 10:18 ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 ----------
colin bennet,
I have had BB since Freeserve/Wanadoo/Orange and haven't used dialup since then, so I suppose you could say it has happened since BB ADSL, the LLU of course is only since July 2006 when Wanadoo changed their name to Orange and messed everyone up.
Ron.
NTLVictim
09-03-2007, 10:50
Would this be something to do with the marker on the line, anyone?
Mr Clean
09-03-2007, 11:09
Are you removing the ADSL Filters from the lines in your house when trying to dial up?
Try putting in your mobile number in the connection and dialing that. It should ring. If thats the case then the modem is fine and it's a problem with the ISP Dial up numbers on your line. Call barring or something else.
Are you removing the ADSL Filters from the lines in your house when trying to dial up?
Try putting in your mobile number in the connection and dialing that. It should ring. If thats the case then the modem is fine and it's a problem with the ISP Dial up numbers on your line. Call barring or something else.
I tried that Jamgood and symtoms are the same good clear dial tone distorted dialing and it did not ring my phone.
So in that case you think it could be the modem?
Ron.
maverick
09-03-2007, 12:34
Have a look here for some things to try
http://www.modemhelp.net/s/smartlink.shtml
Bored Cable Cust
09-03-2007, 12:42
Bored Cable Cust,
You are not going to believe this, With the pos probe on No2 & neg on No5 I get 47.2 VDC Now.......with the neg probe on 2 and the pos probe on No5 I get 47.2 VDC. (using a Fluke 75) It is a BT line.
Do you think this could be the problem. We do have an extension upstairs but this was fitted by a BT engineer so should be correctly fitted.
I look forward to your comments.
Ron.
---------- Post added at 10:18 ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 ----------
OK, I take it then that your testing at the master... That is indeed a strange reading you're getting, also a bit low for a BT line. I'm using a UNI-T101 digital meter and I've just retested mine to make sure that the info I gave was correct as it's been a year since I was a service engineer. Now I have double checked with my meter and it is reading a negative voltage DC when the probes are reversed. The only way round this I can think of at the moment is to go to your extension, if you have a 2 part Master socket (NTE5A) make sure it's reassembled first (take a note of what colour wire goes to what terminal). At your extension, place your negative probe on connection number3 (this is your ringer wire and act as a ground) and place your positive probe first on connection2, check your reading then try your positive probe on connection 5 and compare the levels. the reading at number 2 should be the highest if it is make sure that the wire colour corresponds with connection 2 at your master socket if it does your polarity is fine. if not you'll need to swap the wires round. I'll see if I can get some info on what BT would consider to be the lowest acceptable voltage for your line.. because my line at the furthest extn is 51.3VDC so 47.2 appears to be a bit low.
Make sure that you don't have 2 master sockets instead of a master and a extn.. see here for addtional socket type info
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/7112/btsktmasterav4.jpgMaster Socket
This is what a typical master socket looks like. You must have one of these at the point at which BT wiring ends and yours begins.
Master sockets should not normally be used for extensions
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9900/btslaveskt2hy5.jpg
Extension (Slave) Socket.
All extension sockets are like this. Note absence of ringing capacitor and surge arrrester.
The connectors shown are Insulation displacement types (IDC), Extension sockets (especially if bought in DIY stores) often have screw terminals.
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3580/ntefrtmq1.jpg http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9274/ntebackvk3.jpg
This is the BT supplied NTE5 master socket found in many installations. Internally it is functionally similar to the master socket above but the components are protected by a plastic cover.When the front screws are removed the complete lower portion of the socket including the IDC connectors for user wiring can be pulled out. They connect to the back plate by means of a fixed plug. The fixed plug is a standard BT plug and socket and allows all the internal wiring to be easily isolated for fault finding. A normal phone can be plugged directly into the socket remaining in the wall to test if the line is OK.
I just spoke to one of the guy's I used to work with who is now a BT engineer and he confirmed that below 50VDC is a bit low and can cause probs.. for example if you were to get an ADT alarm installed, below 50VDC can and usually does trigger phone tamper alarms. Whether this is the cause of your dial up probs remains to be seen. But try to think positive.. Think how much your learning about phone lines :D
BCC,
Sorry for the delay Had to visit a friend for lunch and only just got in.
The piccy of the master socket is similar to the one we have complete with ring capacitor etc. We have got ADT security monitored, haven't had any problems.
Will investigate the upstairs phone socket tomorrow and let you know the results.
In the mean time..........
I have had a look in the properties of the dialup icon in internet connections and find the Smart link 56K modem has a protocol (COM3) not PPP, I wonder if this is the problem?
Perhaps you or some one might have some thoughts on this, don't want to alter it until I get advice.
Ron.
Just had a thought, can I uninstall the Smart Link voice Modem in Devise Manager & on reboot will it reinstall automatically?
Just thought this might cure any problem with it.
I would make a system restore point before hand.
Ron.
Bored Cable Customer,
Please accept my humble apologies, I checked the upstairs Switch box and it gave the correct reading pos probe on No2 47.2VDC and neg reading with probes reversed.
So polarity is right.
My only excuse on the first reading was it was in a dark corner difficult to get at, if I had been using my AVO the needle would have immediately dropped, but with the digital it's easy to miss read the + and - signs when looking in the dark and with bifocals, and me poor old knees playing me up, That's my excuse anyway. ;)
Sorry.
Ron.
Just in case anyone is following this thread, and for the benefit of anyone with a similar problem with their back up dial up service. I un-installed the 56k voice modem and re-installed by rebooting., and all works fine now.:)
Ron.
the stuttered dialing tone generated from v/m affects dial out from comps and WILL affect connection via a modem over telco.
AFAIK, a stuttered tone will only stop the modem dialling out. In this case, it sounds like the modem has already dialled out, and the connection is refused after that.
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