View Full Version : 101 rules to becoming a Jehovah's Witness
Action Jackson
02-03-2007, 13:12
Fancy a career as a Jehovah's Witness?
You just have to adhere to/believe in the following:
P.S. I wonder who sets the rules for number 57. :D
1. Jehovah God is not a Trinity
2. The doctrine of the Trinity is inspired by Satan
3. Jesus Christ is a created being, who at one time did not exist (a.k.a.Michael the archangel)
4. The Holy Spirit is not a person but is "God's active force" i.e. gravity, electricity etc.
5. Heaven is only for select Jehovah's Witnesses
6. Heaven is limited only to 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses
7. Jehovah's Witnesses are the only true Christians
8. There is no Hell (It is simply the grave)
9. There is no life after death (except for the 144,000)
10. Salvation is by good works not by Grace
11. You cannot be sure of salvation
12. Jesus is not to be worshiped or prayed to
13. Jesus did not rise from the dead bodily but as a spirit being
14. You are discouraged from attending college
15. The "first resurrection" occurred in 1918
16. All pastors are the "Antichrist"
17. All churches are of Satan
18. All governments are controlled by Satan
19. You cannot take a blood transfusion
20. You cannot be a police officer
21. You cannot salute the flag, stand for the national anthem, or own a flag
22. You cannot serve in the military
23. You cannot buy girl Scout cookies
24. You must attend five meetings per week
25. Jesus'second coming occurred in 1914 (only known to Jehovah's Witnesses)
26. You cannot marry a non-Jehovah's Witness
27. If one does not follow the rules of the Watchtower they will be shunned
28. You cannot read Christian literature from a Christian book store
29. You cannot be a cheerleader
30. You cannot celebrate any holidays (Christmas, Easter, etc.)
31. You cannot celebrate your birthday
32. You cannot run for or hold a political office
33. You cannot vote in any political campaign
34. You cannot serve on a jury
35. You are discouraged from giving to charity (except Watchtower causes)
36. You cannot speak to former members who are shunned (disfellowshipped)
37. You cannot accept Christmas gifts
38. You must read and study Watchtower literature regularly
39. Only Jehovah's Witnesses can understand the Bible
40. Angels direct the Watchtower organization
41. Jesus did not die on a cross but an upright pole
42. You cannot own or wear a cross
43. You must report your witnessing activity to the elders
44. You must go from door to door weekly to gain converts
45. You cannot have friends who are not Jehovah's Witnesses
46. You must refer to all Jehovah's Witnesses as "brother" or "sister"
47. You cannot play chess*
48. You cannot understand the Bible without Watchtower literature to explain it
49. A child abuser is reported to Watchtower elders and not the police
50. You must forgo vacations to attend annual conventions
51. You are discouraged from buying a two door car-A "Theocratic" or "spiritually strong" Jehovah's Witness will have a full size car for the door to door work
52. Men cannot wear beards
53. Men must wear short hair
54. Women cannot pray in the presence of men without a hat
55. You cannot have a tattoo
56. You forbidden to use any tobacco products
57. Only officially approved sexual practices are allowed in marriage
58. You must appear before a Judicial committee if you are caught breaking Watchtower rules (Secret files are kept on all members which record these meetings-these files are kept in New York and are never destroyed)
59. You must not own wind-chimes (they are for chasing away evil spirits)*
60. You cannot read any anti-Jehovah's Witness material
61. You cannot use pet foods made with blood or blood products
62. You cannot join any clubs or sports teams
63. You cannot wear jade jewelry*
64. You cannot purchase Christian products (books, music, plaques, pictures etc.)
65. You cannot wear any Christian jewelry
66. Jehovah's Witness meeting places have no windows
67. If you see another Jehovah's Witness breaking the rules you must turn them in to the elders to be interrogated
68. Jesus could have sinned and failed in his mission
69. Jesus was not born the savior but became the savior at his baptism
70. The Watchtower organization is God's prophet on earth today
71. Women must submit to Watchtower elders
72. You cannot support your country
73. One must study Watchtower books at least six months before he can be baptized
74. Before baptism, one must answer over 80 questions in front of a panel of elders
75. Most of The Book of Revelation applies to the Jehovah's Witnesses
76. You cannot celebrate Mothers or Fathers day (it may produce pride)
77. Kingdom Halls cannot have pews for seating
78. JWs are are fobidden to say "good luck"
79. God is not omniscient "all knowing"
80. God is not omnipresent
81. God only speaks through the "Governing Body" in Brooklyn, New York
82. The Holy Spirit is only for select Jehovah's Witnesses
83. The Lord's supper is only to be eaten by select Jehovah's Witnesses (144,000 group-99.99% of Jehovah's Witnesses are forbidden from taking the Lord's supper)
84. The Lord's supper can only be offered once per year
85. JWs in times of crisis, are strongly discouraged from consulting with family counselors, including mental health professionals who are not Jehovah's Witnesses
86. Only faithful Jehovah's Witnesses will survive Armageddon
87. If you have a non-Witness spouse your first loyalty is to the elders over your spouse
88. Jesus was equal to Adam (just a man)
89. Judgment day is 1000 years long
90. If you leave Jehovah's Witnesses or are expelled from the organization you will not be resurrected
91. Only Jehovah's Witness prayers are heard by God
92. Man's salvation is secondary in God's plan; Jesus was sent to "vindicate Jehovah's name"
93. God will destroy all non-Jehovah's Witnesses at armageddon
94. You forbidden to say "God bless you" when someone sneezes.
95. You must never enter a church building
96. You must never attend a church service
97. You cannot be involved in martial arts, boxing or wrestling
98. You cannot participate in a school play
99. You cannot donate blood or your organs when you die
100. You can never question what is printed in Watchtower literature
101. You are forbidden to attend a funeral of an ex-Jehovah's Witness
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/reasons.html
Is it any wonder we don't answer the door to them? :D
So you can now wear Jade jewellary, have wind chimes and play chess.
They obviously allowed these things as otherwise people might thing they're crazy :confused:
Action Jackson
02-03-2007, 13:33
So you can now wear Jade jewellary, have wind chimes and play chess.
They obviously allowed these things as otherwise people might thing they're crazy :confused:
Number 49 is a bit controversial, I have to say.
#87 is interesting........
orangebird
02-03-2007, 13:41
I used to be friends with a JW. She was OK, her mother was crazy. Especially when my friend decided to leave the group... :nutter:
Action Jackson
02-03-2007, 13:54
Is it any wonder why we fear them coming to our door?
All dressed head to toe in black, grim expressions on their faces; it's all too sinister.
I think they should sex it up a bit. Only send women out, get them to dress in provocative attire, put on some make-up and try cracking a smile and being a bit flirtatious at the door. It would certainly get them invited into more male homes I reckon.
Sex sells, even The Watchtower.
If people want to believe in all that, what business is it of ours? Just say 'no thanks' if they come to your door, job done.
Action Jackson
02-03-2007, 14:02
Just say 'no thanks' if they come to your door, job done.
You have never been on the receiving end of an aggressive Jehovah before I take it?
Sticking their foot on your door to stop you closing it, giving you abuse etc when you try to tell them that you are not interested.
Best thing to do is to tell them to go away via the letterbox.
Why do they want to covert people so that they will be saved if only a limited number are going to be?
fireman328
02-03-2007, 14:10
There is no hope for me then, still with only 144,000 allowed in, there there is going to be a rush when they open the gates. Or will it be season ticket holders only ?
TheDaddy
02-03-2007, 14:15
Why do they want to covert people so that they will be saved if only a limited number are going to be?
Perhaps they are on commission :shrug:
Delta Whiskey
02-03-2007, 14:17
54. Women cannot pray in the presence of men without a hat
So when a woman wants to pray, she has to do it the presence of a man who is wearing a hat. Strange rule that.
The JW don't go to my friend Owl's house anymore, he invited them in and kept them there for hours chucking different belief systems at them, tied them up in knots. :D
I never get involved, I'm a Jehovah's Bystander.
DW
I have been to a kingdom hall and they prayed and no one was wearing a hat? Also I am sure the building had windows
54. Women cannot pray in the presence of men without a hat
So when a woman wants to pray, she has to do it the presence of a man who is wearing a hat. Strange rule that.
The JW don't go to my friend Owl's house anymore, he invited them in and kept them there for hours chucking different belief systems at them, tied them up in knots. :D
I never get involved, I'm a Jehovah's Bystander.
DW
Does that mean:
- the woman can't pray with a man unless she has a hat
or
- the woman can't pray with a man unless he has a hat
There's a big difference.
tell them good luck in attracting more followers......
ok, why would someone want to join a group that says only a very small few will gain entry to heaven? is this not elitest? :erm:
Well at least I cant join, I do kung fu, I have a tattoo, I own wind chimes, I would never let my spouse submit to the elders......
ik
Why do they want to covert people so that they will be saved if only a limited number are going to be?
The 144,000 (which if memory serves was just hebrew slang for a large number, just as 40days and 40nights means "a long time" ) will be taken into heaven, the remaining humans will be slaughtered, then JW's will be ressurected, so still alive, not dead as in ghosts or wandering around in spirit form.
They'll be perfect humans like Adam and Jesus, so something I noticed was many people who suffer from some ailment, such as infertility, become JW's, or if they have a loved one who's suffered and died, such as from parkinson's, they hope for ressurection of their loved one through association, despite this not being taught.
After ressurection I was told as perfect human beings, you'll have no recollection of any bad things that happened to you. Sounds nice doesn't it?
Not to me, I'm happy with who I am, and every single thing that happened to me in my life made me who I am, take one thing away and I'd be someone else, just as a year ago, or even a week ago, I was a different though similar person to who I am today.
I believe James T Kirk said it best with:
Damnit, Bones, you're a doctor.
You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're things we carry with us - the things that make us who we are. If we lost them, we lose ourselves.
I don't want my pain taken away.
I need my pain.
Oh and armegeddon has to happen before the last soldier of WW1 dies, and without devine intervention he can live no longer than 120 (well no one can unless there's been devine intervention).
Course I fully expect the date of armegeddon to be revised somewhen in the next 20 years.
You have never been on the receiving end of an aggressive Jehovah before I take it?
I've been a lot closer to 'persistant' JWs than you realise.
Sticking their foot on your door to stop you closing it, giving you abuse etc when you try to tell them that you are not interested.
I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that has happened to anyone other than possibly the odd one occasion which has probably then led that person to believe all/most JWs are like it.
Best thing to do is to tell them to go away via the letterbox.
If it's your house then it's your right to tell them any way you choose.
If it's your house then it's your right to tell them any way you choose.
How about "I'm completely naked and in an extremely excited state. I'll open the door in 3...2..." :D
Not sure how this counts as current affairs. Not sure its funny either. So i'll move it into lifestyle
On a more serious note, the son of an elder slept with a friend of mine when she was under age.
She confessed to the premarital sex, and was excumunicated for a year, quite hard when her mother and younger sister were JW's.
He on the other hand kept quiet and his parents moved off with him to France to be elders there.
Who said it was only Islam where if a woman confesses to having sex out of wedlock with a man, she gets punished, but not the man as long as he keeps quiet?
zing_deleted
05-03-2007, 17:40
This list is flawed its made up drivel . Some of the doctrine is correct but other parts are simply made up nonsense
---------- Post added at 17:40 ---------- Previous post was at 17:38 ----------
On a more serious note, the son of an elder slept with a friend of mine when she was under age.
She confessed to the premarital sex, and was excumunicated for a year, quite hard when her mother and younger sister were JW's.
He on the other hand kept quiet and his parents moved off with him to France to be elders there.
Who said it was only Islam where if a woman confesses to having sex out of wedlock with a man, she gets punished, but not the man as long as he keeps quiet?
you dont get excumunicated iirc thats the catholics you get disfellowshipped.And this only happens if you show no remorse for what you do.The man may well have been trully sorry for what happened im not saying it makes it right and I think he should have faced the law
There are a lot of things made up againsts the JW's just because people do not bother to find out the truth about them. There are good and bad everywhere and there are corrupt people in all walks of life not just the JW's
Macca371
05-03-2007, 18:07
14. You are discouraged from attending college
Of course, we wouldn't people to shake off this idiotic belief system with a good dose of rational thinking, would we?
zing_deleted
05-03-2007, 18:15
that point is totally false and untrue anyway
that point is totally false and untrue anyway
The JW's I knew were certainly discouraged from going to college, especially if the girls.
The reasoning was with the new world order just round the corner, what's the point?
One of my greivances with JWs is that they cannot have any medical treatment, citing it gos will.
Well why where we given the tallents to learn then?
zing_deleted
05-03-2007, 23:06
Thats just not true also . See people have views on JW's based soley on false evidence its ignorant impressions based on a total misunderstanding
---------- Post added at 23:06 ---------- Previous post was at 23:05 ----------
The JW's I knew were certainly discouraged from going to college, especially if the girls.
The reasoning was with the new world order just round the corner, what's the point?
They are still encouraged to work and earn and learn and make the best of themselves. I go one better than knowing a JW btw. I was an active witness some years back ive slipped into inactivity due to my desision and based on knowledge ive gathered by experience rather than press or etc. The lifestsyle for me was just to difficult and there is corruption as there is in all walks of life so I chose to walk away, But a lot of information posted by the op is totally inaccurate as are posts following up from that
They are still encouraged to work and earn and learn and make the best of themselves. I go one better than knowing a JW btw. I was an active witness some years back ive slipped into inactivity due to my desision and based on knowledge ive gathered by experience rather than press or etc. The lifestsyle for me was just to difficult and there is corruption as there is in all walks of life so I chose to walk away, But a lot of information posted by the op is totally inaccurate as are posts following up from that
The girls I knew, from three families, were encouraged to find husbands to look after them, then go pioneering.
I studied with them for over a year, to learn what their sect was about, and despite repeated statements that there was no possibility of converting me, they continued to persist throughout that period (even statements like "of course you'll have to get your hair cut when you become one of us" as my hair was long enough to reach the base of my spine). In the end, it wasn't until they discovered I was an athiest that they got the message, then they totally changed, all civility went out the window, to the extent that one endangered her child's life by refusing to listen to me when I said her symptoms suggested appendicitis. Rather than take her daughter to the doctor, she kept making her drink laxatives, until her appendix nearly ruptured and she was rushed into hospital.
zing_deleted
05-03-2007, 23:21
you didnt learn that much if you choose to call them a sect
But you have pointed out also what I meant about good and bad and corruption etc. That is why I left. But I do feel I have to stand up when the wrong impression is given. Ie if people state doctrine that is incorrect I will tell them thats all i do you dont see me preach or nothing like it
OinkyBoinky
06-03-2007, 00:09
does 27 and 87 not contradict each other...
See people have views on JW's based soley on false evidence its ignorant impressions based on a total misunderstanding
:clap:
you didnt learn that much if you choose to call them a sect
Sect sounds much better than cult though, although I get your point about it being not as accurate.
zing_deleted
06-03-2007, 09:24
neither term is correct the JW's are a bona fide religion and not a sect or cult they are simply Christians
dilli-theclaw
06-03-2007, 09:28
All my personal experiences with JW's have been intensly bad. So I refuse to talk to them anymore.
I dislike being told that I am abhorrent to Jehova and should be dead by people that come to my door.
neither term is correct the JW's are a bona fide religion and not a sect or cult they are simply Christians
No they aren't. Christians have agreed since the very beginning that a basic tenet of the faith is the divinity of Christ. Denying Christ's divinity makes any group a 'cult' or 'sect' based on Christianity, rather than 'Christian'.
By the way, don't be fooled by the JW spin that Christ's divinity (and the 'doctrine of the Trinity') was only invented in the 4th century AD - it was discussed and codified in an important council in C4 but that was because a minority group at the time was arguing against it. The belief itself was mainstream at that time and before. And any impartial reading of the New Testament will show that the Apostles believed it as well, even in the JW's own 'translation' of the Bible.
neither term is correct the JW's are a bona fide religion and not a sect or cult they are simply Christians
The only difference between a cult and a religion is that 1 tends to have a larger membership & some degree of political power.
rogerdraig
06-03-2007, 13:19
lovely bit of fiction most of those rules are
may be you should read some of their stuff first before saying what they belive
The only difference between a cult and a religion is that 1 tends to have a larger membership & some degree of political power.
An interesting view with some truth to it I think.
However while there's no doubt that size, popularity and power are a great help in aiding an organisation to get full 'religion' status in the popular consciousness, I think it's probably more accurate to say an organisation gains cult or sect status by basing itself on an existing religion rather than by promoting a completely novel belief.
The medieval church considered Islam to be a cult rather than a full religion but I think this was due to the fact that it is rooted in some of the same ideas about God as Judaism and Christianity rather than any notion of its size or influence (the middle eastern countries had plenty of influence at the time).
Even Christianity was regarded as a sect in the 1st century Roman Empire.
---------- Post added at 13:52 ---------- Previous post was at 13:52 ----------
lovely bit of fiction most of those rules are
may be you should read some of their stuff first before saying what they belive
Some of us have done so. Which bits of post #1 are fiction?
zing_deleted
06-03-2007, 13:57
Well im walking away from this thread as its prejudiced against a group of people and peoples views are prejudiced .
Well im walking away from this thread as its prejudiced against a group of people and peoples views are prejudiced .
Prejudice is to judge without first reviewing the facts. I can't speak for others, but I believe I have read up enough on the Watchtower Society to be *extremely* sceptical about what it is selling and what it does to those who get entangled in it.
An interesting view with some truth to it I think.
I think it's possible you may have misunderstood my point, I wasn't sticking up for cults. It was more of a comment about religions.
luck4mike
07-03-2007, 21:04
its amazing... j witnesses dont celebrate anything... very stifling religion in my opinion but then again I dont follow any religion... my feeling is that god is with all of us... whatever people choose to follow is their perogative and we should accept it...
homealone
07-03-2007, 21:59
I had an interesting encounter with a JW couple, once, when I had a short, unsuccessful, shot at being a 'financial adviser' (aka loans, savings & insurance salesman ;) )
- I have no idea how the appointment was made, but I did eventually understand why my spiel about saving for the future met with such disdain ;)
I agree with luck4mike that respect is due to all beliefs, and to be fair, they didn't try to push theirs, just that the financial arrangements were complicated :)
- on the doorstep, it is a different matter, & without wishing to offend anyone, I would prefer if the polite 'not interested, thanks' was taken, as such, especially when repeated - so sorry if I'm rude & shut the door ( usually while apologising..)
zing_deleted
07-03-2007, 22:03
Nowt wrong with that Gaz and those that persist to much are not really playing the game. A JW at your door is no different to a double glazing salesman or a cold caller on the fone they are all told to ask why is met with a no but a closed door or hanging up the fone sorts em all out I do now know why people make such a fuss
---------- Post added at 22:03 ---------- Previous post was at 22:02 ----------
its amazing... j witnesses dont celebrate anything... very stifling religion in my opinion but then again I dont follow any religion... my feeling is that god is with all of us... whatever people choose to follow is their perogative and we should accept it...
JW's celebrate often they just do not follow orthadox holidays
Indeed, many JW kids have several present days a year, so they only miss out on the magic of birthdays, new year and xmas, not the recieving of gifts and the show of love associated.
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 10:08
well JW's believe wholeheartedly in their faith.Why celebrate a birthday when such an event is surrounded in debauchery and the ilk. Look at what happened on herods birthday. And as for Christmas well the birth of Christ certainly as portrayed in the bible didnt happen in December and the only reason it is celebrated then is because the Ceaser at the time blended it with a holiday celebrating the roman sun god. Also why do you need 2 days to celebrate the love of your child??? I celebrate the love of my daughter every day and treat her as and when.
X for someone obviously as intelligent as you are your views seem pretty much to follow the propaganda preached by the misunderstanding many
EDIT in fact X what about all the Jews and Muslims who do not celebrate christmas? do you think ill of them for "not showing their children love"
In fact I deem it fit to mention the hypocrisy cuz if I was to say some of the things mentioned againsts the JW's not just in this thread but in others about muslims or other religious groups I would be shot down in flames
Perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying.
Xmas, hallowe'en, birthdays and new year, for many people are filled with a special magic, I know they do for me, but then I still believe in Father Christmas.
Most kids "tune in" to that magic through their youthful innocence, and carry it with them.
If kids aren't able to tune in and feel that magic, through not being allowed to experience it as anything other than just another day they're missing out on it, just as I miss out on the magic of Chinese new year, or Diwali.
Birthdays are not about celebrating your love for a child, they're about celebrating the birth of your child and their reaching another year.
Or are you saying I was wrong in stating JW's have present days?
I have had direct experience with JW's in the Waterlooville area for over a year, in which time they told me about much of their beliefs as they tried to convert me.
I've heard elders tell children to "beware athiests, they will lead you astray" and talk of how wonderful the world will be when all the non-JW's are dead.
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 10:45
you have more knowledge on the subject than most and I respect that most peoples views on the JW's are based on the fact they knock on your door or refuse blood transfusions and thats it. Jehovah's witnesses try to follow what they believe the best way they can as do Muslims and Jews do to a point and involving their children is part of that. I tbh used to celebrate christmas even though I followed the faith and that amongst other reasons is why I left. How coudl I witness to others when I was false to what I was witnessing? The life of the JW is difficult and as a single man coming otu of a messy divorce it was even more so. I could not live the life. But ive met people who believe so wholeheartedly in Christs ransom sacrifice that their whole life is surrounded with a peace ive never felt, One man in particular was an elder in the congregation I was in was dying of cancer but he was so at peace with the world all through that. I long to be that peaceful he was an amazing guy.
But yes as said there is good and bad everywhere but for some reason I think very unfairly the JW's are treated with an awful lot of disrespect that I feel is unmerited and built purely on ignorant nonsense. You have at least gained knowledge on the subject and I respect that but the op's post is so inaccurate and derogatory if it was posted about the muslim religion or similar it would have been pulled
Action Jackson
08-03-2007, 11:03
the op's post is so inaccurate and derogatory if it was posted about the muslim religion or similar it would have been pulled
It was either JW's or the Amish.
In the end I went with JW's. Who would have thought that one of the (ex) 144,000 would actually post on here.
I would assume that the list was created by an american, and in america JW's are considered to be around the bottom of the educated list, only 4.7% of US college graduates are JW's for instance.
While other religions have doctrines to strive to better yourself intellectually, JW's do not. As I said the JW's at the Kingdom Hall I knew did not encourage their kids to go to college, as they didn't consider there to be much point (why spend a fortune repairing and upgrading a car if in 3 years time it'd be banned from the roads? that sort of thinking).
I'm sure there are many JW's who do encourage their kids to be educated, after all, there may be another 15 years until the new world order, but it appears that they are the minority withing the JW community.
The special needs teacher at my secondary school who was also the RE teacher commented that when he mentioned what one of his special needs pupils required to improve their literary skills at parents' evening, the boy's parents were disinterested as they believed judgment day was just around the corner.
I have seen the strain that having a husband who is not a JW in a JW family can cause, and the pressures other JWs have put on the family to either convert the husband (which isn't going to happen) or leave him (which nearly happened on several occasions).
I've met an ex-catholic trying to make amends for causing Satan to murder her friend's boss who was like a father, because when drunk one night she read his palm and forsaw the death of a fatherly figure.
The boss was in his 60's, stressful job, and died of a heart attack up a mountain while on a skiing holiday.
I've been told that the relationship troubles my parents were having at the time were due to me having Xmen comics and Terry Pratchett books in the house, by a woman who left her newborn baby on the kitchen worktop while she got on with dinner, then turned round to find the baby had fallen onto the floor but was ok. She wanted to thank god for saving her child, and after trying various churches without success, was called on by the JW's.
I've also seen the hope it can bring, where one man was theologically keeping his fingers crossed that if he was a good JW, his deceased father would be saved and he'd see him again in the NWO, and the couple who are infertile, looking forward to their perfect bodies after judgment day when they can have kids.
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 11:44
It was either JW's or the Amish.
In the end I went with JW's. Who would have thought that one of the (ex) 144,000 would actually post on here.
so one way or another you were going to ridicule someones beliefs what a nice guy you are
Me experiences differ quite a bit to yours X but it does back up what I said about good and bad in all walks of life.
Action Jackson
08-03-2007, 11:47
so one way or another you were going to ridicule someones beliefs what a nice guy you are
JW's would (and have) quite willingly ridicule my beliefs (or lack of).
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 11:49
but your post is a pile of crap mate so many points are just totally wrong. If your gonna bother next time actually do some research instead of posting bull plop
Tech_Boy
08-03-2007, 11:58
The bloke who normally sits at the PC next to me here in work is a JW, and he is a really nice guy.
He doesn't like talking about his faith in work, infact he had been sitting next to me for about 3 months before I found out he was a JW.
The only reall problem that I have with him, is that he is a rabid Microsoft fanboy, and that's nothing to do with his faith.;)
Me experiences differ quite a bit to yours X but it does back up what I said about good and bad in all walks of life.
Indeed, my boss at the AA was a JW, one of the most decent blokes I've ever met.
but your post is a pile of crap mate so many points are just totally wrong. If your gonna bother next time actually do some research instead of posting bull plop
Perhaps for the benefit and education of people reading, you could list the points which are plop so that they can (if inclined) go off and do some research themselves?
JW's would (and have) quite willingly ridicule my beliefs (or lack of).
Do you mean all of them or just the one or two you've heard about?
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 12:18
I would but there is loads. A good few of them such as not allowed to wear christian jewelry is based on idolatry and isnt allowed and patriotic stuff isnt allowed IE saluting a flag going to war etc. Lots of German witnesses were put to death in concentration camps for this.
9. totally wrong most people who have died since Christs death will be resurrected only JW's true will survive the event of armageddon though.
12 christ is the source of our salvation his ransom sacrifice gave us a chance every prayer is through Christ
15 never told anything about this afaik no one is resurrected to heaven (the 14400 are clearly mentioned in Rev) until armageddon
16 only Satan is the Antichrist how can a pastor be?
17 to clarify the bible clearly states there is only one true religion any other is doing satans work although not deliberately. This makes a lot of religions false and all Bibles say this
18 governments are not controlled but everyone is under satans influence why do you think life is so violent and society is in decline?
23 there is no rule about where you buy biscuits lol
24 its 3 meets and you are encouraged to attend but not made to
25 Jesus second coming??? what not till armageddon
41 to clarify the cross wasnt used in executions a straight pole with your arms above your head causes a lot more strain on your body that having them out in a cross also if nails were put through hands and feet the weight of your body would rip them out so nails were put through wrists and ankles
42 well its idolatry
47 you cannot play chess lol lol well I never stopped lol
51 ???? rubbish
52 rubbish
54 rubbish
55 you can if you had it before baptism
56 well thats gotta be a good rule
57 hahahahaha never mentioned to me
62 rubbish
66 rubbish
79 and 80 course he is
95 not true many witnesses visit churches are they can be architecturally interesting
96 you can but you just do not pray
there are a lot more points that I could go into but id be here all day
please note its been a good few years since I was involved so some of my memory is patchy :)
9. totally wrong most people who have died since Christs death will be resurrected only JW's true will survive the event of armageddon though.
JW's don't believe that when you die, your spirit leaves your body to either live on as a ghost or live in heaven though. It's not talking about ressurection, it's talking about life after death.
12 christ is the source of our salvation his ransom sacrifice gave us a chance every prayer is through Christ
Should Jesus be worshipped though? Are their prayers to Jehovah, or are they to Jesus alone instead?
23 there is no rule about where you buy biscuits lol
The use of "girl scouts" confirms US origin of this list. I know the JW's at the KH I went to weren't allowed to do anything that would support other religions if it could be helped, so I would suspect that this is an offshot result of a similar suggestion from US elders, ie don't financially support non-JW organisations which results in not being able to buy cookies from girl scouts.
41 to clarify the cross wasnt used in executions a straight pole with your arms above your head causes a lot more strain on your body that having them out in a cross also if nails were put through hands and feet the weight of your body would rip them out so nails were put through wrists and ankles
Romans used poles, crosses, T's, Y's and X's to crucify people.
The Latin Cross was used when executing kings because the extra bit at the top enabled a sign to be erected with the name of the king. As Jesus was known as the "king of the jews" and it is recorded a sign was put above his head, it would suggest a latin cross rather than any other was used.
The purpose of crucifixion was not just to kill, but to show the low status of the victim (well, criminal), and prolong their death. People could be nailed through the hands and feet, as long as there is a foot rest. Rope was also used either on it's own or in combination with nails. Nails were often re-used due to their expense. So it is entirely possible that he was nailed through the hands, but not soley through the hands.
So you are right in that if he was nailed through the hands his body weight would have ripped them out. People can think on that and see it is a true statement. Think harder on it and you realise that with the use of rope as well and/or a foot rest, it is entirely possible.
I found "not the whole truth" was being told on many an occasion in JW literature, for instance the idea that before the flood, there was no rain, and the water was underground and above a canopy (the thermosphere), after all, heat rises doesn't it? And there is part of the atmosphere called the thermosphere, which sounds hot doesn't it? The literature they showed me suggested 3000F which sounds really hot.
Thing is, because the distance between particles is so great, you wouldn't feel it. The temperature relates to the energy of those particles, they're bussing around pretty fast.
Now to you and me, it's obvious that the thermosphere couldn't hold up a canopy of water, but to your average Joe, heat rises, like a hot air balloon, so the idea of the thermosphere keeping the flood waters at bay makes sense.
They couldn't answer my question of what stops the water boiling off into space though...
42 well its idolatry
So that one isn't plop?
47 you cannot play chess lol lol well I never stopped lol
That one's been discontinued, hence the * (you have to actually visit the list page to find that out though)
51 ???? rubbish
52 rubbish
54 rubbish
I reckon that's those wacky american JW's again :) (or it's plop)
55 you can if you had it before baptism
Again, it would have been helpful if the full page had been quoted in the OP rather than just the list, as it states these are once you've joined, so the list agrees with you, you can have one before, but not after. So not plop.
56 well thats gotta be a good rule
Healthy, but is it plop or not? Can JW's smoke?
57 hahahahaha never mentioned to me
Did you ever ask and elder what you can and can't get up to in the bedroom? :D
62 rubbish
Looks like plop to me.
66 rubbish
Same again, I'm sure there were windows in the KH I attended so I'd say that was plop.
So there's a lot of plop, but there are a lot that are correct.
I suspect that some of the plop is due to the differences between US JW's and UK JW's, and local interpritations of what should and shouldn't be done.
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 13:07
I agree but if a post is made damning a certain kind of person or a persons belief and some part of it is plop then it ruins the rest of the subject.
to 9 you have to die to be ressurected so maybe im being pedantic but if you die then you live again surely that is life after death????
I agree but if a post is made damning a certain kind of person or a persons belief and some part of it is plop then it ruins the rest of the subject.
to 9 you have to die to be ressurected so maybe im being pedantic but if you die then you live again surely that is life after death????
Indeed, if you're trying to educate people, or for some reason warn them against something, then giving the whole truth and not making stuff up is the way to do it.
Not knowing any american JW's it's difficult to be certain if some of the plop is actually plop or not, would probably need to find out where the originator of the list actually got their information from.
You're being pedantic, go sit in the corner ;)
If someone dies on an operating table, then comes back to life, do you consider that life, or life after death?
Most people (who aren't pedantic! :D ) would consider it life still.
It is true isn't it that JW's believe that when you die, you're dead, not sleeping, not in heaven, just dead awaiting ressurection.
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 13:22
Yes its true so you are dead then after armageddon you are resurrected back to life ero life after being dead ;)
I thought that people are not actually dead until brain activity ceases which means when they are bought back on the table they were not actually dead dead lol
I knwo a couple of guys who went to work at the Bethal in the USA they didnt seem to come back any stranger than when they left ;) hehehe
Action Jackson
08-03-2007, 14:14
Do you mean all of them or just the one or two you've heard about?
I have not interviewed all Jehovah's Witnesses, no.
I lived next to a family of them for years. Strange sorts, very untidy garden.
How many of them is there these days? They can't have reached their 144,000 quota because they are still brow beating people at the moment in my area. Wouldn't be so bad, but The Watchtower is such a dull read. No gratuitous (but tasteful) nudity and no 'celebrity spotted' section.
---------- Post added at 14:14 ---------- Previous post was at 14:10 ----------
On a lighter note........
How many Jehovah's Witnesses does it take to change a light bulb?
Three. One to screw in the bulb, and two to knock on your door and ask you if you've seen the light!
orangebird
08-03-2007, 14:34
My old JW friend and I were going skiing together once. After one of her meetings, the elders asked her to stay back, questioning her about whether it was a good idea or not to go on holiday with someone who wasn't a JW... WTF?? She also had the life frightened out of her, having been told that if she had sex, outside of marriage, with a non JW, she'd die. I mean, come on! Talk about the fear of god or whatever. The elders in her area were bullies, pure & simple. She left the group, and they would turn up on her doorstep, berating her, telling her what a fateful end she was going to come to etc etc. Even her mother ( a JW, but neitehr her dad nor her two sisters were..) followed the Elders instructions to ignore her her entirely - any mother who puts religion over their own child needs her tubes tying IMO.:mad:
Action Jackson
08-03-2007, 14:39
My old JW friend and I were going skiing together once. After one of her meetings, the elders asked her to stay back, questioning her about whether it was a good idea or not to go on holiday with someone who wasn't a JW... WTF?? She also had the life frightened out of her, having been told that if she had sex, outside of marriage, with a non JW, she'd die. I mean, come on! Talk about the fear of god or whatever. The elders in her area were bullies, pure & simple. She left the group, and they would turn up on her doorstep, berating her, telling her what a fateful end she was going to come to etc etc. :mad:
All religions are taught by instilling fear into its recipients.
orangebird
08-03-2007, 14:40
All religions are taught by instilling fear into its recipients.
Jolly glad I subscribe to none of them then.
Action Jackson
08-03-2007, 14:49
Jolly glad I subscribe to none of them then.
You must be one of those rational thinking types. One of those types that is capable of thinking for themselves and actually dares to question ridiculous church fed dogma.
I'm with you. Together we will start the 'Church of Common Sense'. We will basically do what we like (within the boundaries of 'proper' law, not religious law) and we will worship the meatball sandwich from Subway, which has given me far more pleasure than some non-existent being ever has.
All religions are taught by instilling fear into its recipients.
mighty fine generalisation there Chet......
Action Jackson
08-03-2007, 14:52
mighty fine generalisation there Chet......
Name 1 religion that doesn't promote fear in some way in order to keep the followers 'in line'?
orangebird
08-03-2007, 14:54
You must be one of those rational thinking types. One of those types that is capable of thinking for themselves and actually dares to question ridiculous church fed dogma.
I'm with you. Together we will start the 'Church of Common Sense'. We will basically do what we like (within the boundaries of 'proper' law, not religious law) and we will worship the meatball sandwich from Subway, which has given me far more pleasure than some non-existent being ever has.
Amen to that, brother-from-another-mother. I love meatball subs :drool: :D
---------- Post added at 14:54 ---------- Previous post was at 14:53 ----------
Name 1 religion that doesn't promote fear in some way in order to keep the followers 'in line'?
Oooh, good question!
TheDaddy
08-03-2007, 14:58
Name 1 religion that doesn't promote fear in some way in order to keep the followers 'in line'?
Rastafarianism :D
---------- Post added at 14:58 ---------- Previous post was at 14:56 ----------
Actually now I think about it there is something about immortality in that one to
Action Jackson
08-03-2007, 14:58
Rastafarianism :D
Rastas are taught to fear 'the barber', who will attack their wayward locks should they steal another mans Rizla.
In seriousness though, even the Rastas have their religious fears.
Rastafarians believe that they will never die as long as they remain true and faithful to Selassie. When death does come, "it is always explained away by saying that the subject had departed from the chosen path of Rastafari, had violated some divine precept, and was therefore struck by the mighty power of Jah (Selassie) (Chevannes 203)".
As there are no immortal Rastas in the world today (even Bob Marley felt the wrath of Jah - maybe for wearing those tracksuits) then I can only assume that they are all sinners. Or maybe it's just all superstitious nonsense.
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 15:21
I have not interviewed all Jehovah's Witnesses, no.
I lived next to a family of them for years. Strange sorts, very untidy garden.
How many of them is there these days? They can't have reached their 144,000 quota because they are still brow beating people at the moment in my area. Wouldn't be so bad, but The Watchtower is such a dull read. No gratuitous (but tasteful) nudity and no 'celebrity spotted' section.
---------- Post added at 14:14 ---------- Previous post was at 14:10 ----------
On a lighter note........
How many Jehovah's Witnesses does it take to change a light bulb?
Three. One to screw in the bulb, and two to knock on your door and ask you if you've seen the light!
the 144000 are the annointed few there are millions of JW's worldwide you make all these crass statements and know nothing well done mate :tu:
Action Jackson
08-03-2007, 15:27
the 144000 are the annointed few there are millions of JW's worldwide you make all these crass statements and know nothing well done mate :tu:
Are the anointed selected at random? Like a big JW tombola?
Not much point if you aren't guaranteed a place beside the big non-existent bloke who lives in the big non-existent place in the sky.
Although I do hear that the "earthly hope" is nice at this time of year.
Are the anointed selected at random? Like a big JW tombola?
Why not ask them next time they come round?
Action Jackson
08-03-2007, 16:10
Why not ask them next time they come round?
That would involve engaging them in some kind of social discourse, rather than just sticking 2 fingers up at them through my letterbox.
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 16:11
and on this forum
Still your way allows you to remain ignorant but I dont think you really care about that do you
That would involve engaging them in some kind of social discourse, rather than just sticking 2 fingers up at them through my letterbox.
Just to clarify, what was behind starting this thread?
Wanting to open a discussion about the real beliefs of JW's?
Or just wanting to mock them?
orangebird
08-03-2007, 16:17
and on this forum
Still your way allows you to remain ignorant but I dont think you really care about that do you
Why is it, that just because Action Jackson doesn't like or agree or want to entertain a JW or their beliefs, it makes him ignorant?
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 16:24
no thats not quite what I meant. Ignorant to the answer to the question he would have put if he did entertain .Look at what the 1st priamry meaning is for the word ;)
http://www.freesearch.co.uk/dictionary/ignorant
---------- Post added at 16:24 ---------- Previous post was at 16:23 ----------
Just to clarify, what was behind starting this thread?
Wanting to open a discussion about the real beliefs of JW's?
Or just wanting to mock them?
pure prejudice
Action Jackson
08-03-2007, 16:26
and on this forum
Still your way allows you to remain ignorant but I dont think you really care about that do you
That doesn't really make sense. Please revise argument and re-submit.
Just to clarify, what was behind starting this thread?
Wanting to open a discussion about the real beliefs of JW's?
Or just wanting to mock them?
Where the thread goes, nobody knows.
Why is it, that just because Action Jackson doesn't like or agree or want to entertain a JW or their beliefs, it makes him ignorant?
I don't profess to be an in-depth expert in the ways of Jehovah's Witnesses, but you don't need to know the precise details to know that you can lump it in with every other religion that preaches complete and utter nonsense.
Maybe my ex Jehovah character assassin can give me an insight into the positives of being a JW, rather than just tediously telling me over and over again that I am "ignorant". Educate, not castigate etc. One begs the question if that JW's are so wonderful and worth sticking up for, then why did he leave them in the first place? :confused:
Where the thread goes, nobody knows.
Surely you know your motive behind making the first post.
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 16:29
That doesn't really make sense. Please revise argument and re-submit.
Where the thread goes, nobody knows.
I don't profess to be an in-depth expert in the ways of Jehovah's Witnesses, but you don't need to know the precise details to know that you can lump it in with every other religion that preaches complete and utter nonsense.
Maybe my ex Jehovah character assassin can give me an insight into the positives of being a JW, rather than just tediously telling me over and over again that I am "ignorant". Educate, not castigate etc. One begs the question if that JW's are so wonderful and worth sticking up for, then why did he leave them in the first place? :confused:
educate yourself mate im not gonna waste my time please feel free to follow link I posted in last post it appears your also ignorant of the main meaning of the word
I explained earlier feel free to read back
orangebird
08-03-2007, 16:30
That doesn't really make sense. Please revise argument and re-submit.
Where the thread goes, nobody knows.
I don't profess to be an in-depth expert in the ways of Jehovah's Witnesses, but you don't need to know the precise details to know that you can lump it in with every other religion that preaches complete and utter nonsense.
:clap: :Sprint:
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 16:33
I do not believe your applauding that post. " you don't need to know the precise details to know that you can lump it in with every other religion" what a complete and utterly stupid thing to say about anything.
Action Jackson
08-03-2007, 16:33
Surely you know your motive behind making the first post.
To highlight the ridiculous beliefs of the JW's. For reasons of humour (why not, most of the beliefs are hilariously bizarre) and also to possibly spark a debate on religion in general, using JW's as a reference point.
The fact we have an ex JW on the board means that the thread has taken an interesting turn, which is all good and encourages further debate.
To highlight the ridiculous beliefs of the JW's. For reasons of humour (why not, most of the beliefs are hilariously bizarre) and also to possibly spark a debate on religion in general, using JW's as a reference point.
The fact we have an ex JW on the board means that the thread has taken an interesting turn, which is all good and encourages further debate.
So it was to mainly mock JW's beliefs, rather than challenge them?
Action Jackson
08-03-2007, 16:36
educate yourself mate im not gonna waste my time please feel free to follow link I posted in last post it appears your also ignorant of the main meaning of the word
I explained earlier feel free to read back
What's the point in having a discussion forum then. Why don't we just have one single thread with a link to Google.
:confused:
orangebird
08-03-2007, 16:38
I do not believe your applauding that post. " you don't need to know the precise details to know that you can lump it in with every other religion" what a complete and utterly stupid thing to say about anything.
No it's not - I rather agree. I think all religion is a pile of poo... You think otherwise. I think it's stupid to believe in something that cannot be seen or proven. You think it's stupid to think that. Ying and yang etc.... :shrug:
Action Jackson
08-03-2007, 16:39
So it was to mainly mock JW's beliefs, rather than challenge them?
What is the reasoning behind this persistent line of questioning?
Why does it matter how the thread started out? Why is it so important to you?
I have to admit, I didn't expect any Jehovah's to be on the board, so yes, my post was probably more biased towards mocking them. But when the thread turned, I was equally happy to debate with them.
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 16:41
lol science is only the best explanation for something at the time so things are proved but they still can be disproved actually I should have highlighted the bits in speech marks. Imo any opinion built on a subject without first gaining a knowledge on the subject is an opinion based on ignorance and therefore imo irrelevant
Action Jackson
08-03-2007, 16:48
Imo any opinion built on a subject without first gaining a knowledge on the subject is an opinion based on ignorance and therefore imo irrelevant
Religious bloke who happily subscribes to the "blind faith" principle without ever having any physical evidence to back any of it up, then lectures people on how they should check out the facts first.
Religious people; if they didn't exist already, you couldn't possibly make them up.
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 16:49
but there would be no faith if there was physical evidence
you have made statements about a group of people some of which are simply untrue. That is what im saying nothing to do with the religion followed im not trying to preach to you im trying to say find out about the people not the faith
What is the reasoning behind this persistent line of questioning?
Why does it matter how the thread started out? Why is it so important to you?
I have to admit, I didn't expect any Jehovah's to be on the board, so yes, my post was probably more biased towards mocking them. But when the thread turned, I was equally happy to debate with them.
If your main interest is in mocking, then there's not much point in participating in that discussion.
There's a huge difference between challenging someone's beliefs, such as stating the reasons why the idea of a water canopy being held up by the thermosphere is flawed, and mocking someone for believing that millions of tons of water could be held aloft via heat alone.
---------- Post added at 16:51 ---------- Previous post was at 16:49 ----------
but there would be no faith if there was physical evidence
I disagree, I have faith that there is a laptop computer infront of me, and I can sense the physical evidence to back that up.
---------- Post added at 16:53 ---------- Previous post was at 16:51 ----------
then lectures people on how they should check out the facts first.
You'd get the same reaction if you started spouting inaccuracies about any subject, religion or not.
Interestingly, you've put blind faith in the accuracy of the points in the list, without seeking any evidence to back them up.
orangebird
08-03-2007, 16:53
Religious bloke who happily subscribes to the "blind faith" principle without ever having any physical evidence to back any of it up, then lectures people on how they should check out the facts first.
Religious people; if they didn't exist already, you couldn't possibly make them up.
:LOL: :rofl: I haven't nodded at my screen in agreement and laughed at loud so much since Bifta disappeared. :D:D
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 16:53
but you do not need faith you can see it so you know its there different :)
most of science is built on faith no one was there to see evolution or the big bang the forming of the earth and life actually starting but still millions have faith that was true
but you do not need faith you can see it so you know its there different :)
I still have faith that it is there and my senses aren't decieving me.
If your god popped up one day and said hello, would you no longer have faith in him?
Action Jackson
08-03-2007, 16:55
but there would be no faith if there was physical evidence
That would be tragic. A world of people who deal in facts rather than hokey superstitions and idolisation of imaginary beings.
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 16:56
not just religion is blind as I posted previously
That would be tragic. A world of people who deal in facts rather than hokey superstitions
Do you carry a blaster by your side? :D
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 16:59
I still have faith that it is there and my senses aren't decieving me.
If your god popped up one day and said hello, would you no longer have faith in him?
no I wouldn't need to well not faith in his existence maybe faith that he is a loving god and I can trust him.
Would you apoligise if he did lol
TheDaddy
08-03-2007, 17:04
That would be tragic. A world of people who deal in facts rather than hokey superstitions and idolisation of imaginary beings.
For some one who is so keen on facts you don't seem to know many on the subject of JW's
no I wouldn't need to well not faith in his existence maybe faith that he is a loving god and I can trust him.
Would you apoligise if he did lol
If it was the god of Abraham, and his record according to the bible was accurate, I can't say what I'd do as last time I did, I hurt the feelings of a fellow forum member, and I mean that genuinely.
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 17:44
fairy snuff think this thread is done for me I should not have come back the first time I said im walking someone slap me
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=13449&stc=1&d=1173385632
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 20:31
what evidence do you have to explain infinity ?? come up with that answer and I dont just mean a quote from a brief history of time which just leaves even more questions unanswered and i will agree that my faith in God is a mistake
Unlike a large percentage [possibly all?] of religious people, I don't need to know the answer to everything. I'm quite willing to admit that "I don't know", whereas it seems if a religious person doesn't know the answer to something then <insert name of deity here> must somehow be responsible for it. My response to that would be that just because we can't explain something scientifically yet doesn't mean we won't find a scientific explanation for it ever.
<edit>
I find the concept that we simply do not know the answer to something far more credible than the idea that something we do not currently understand must be the work of some all-powerful invisible deity, for whom there is not even the least shred of evidence for their existence.
</edit>
As for evidence of inifinity, my personal take on it is that infinity isn't so much a set-in-stone desription of the scope of something, but instead a placeholder for something we are as yet unable to offer a better description for.
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 20:52
well statistically creation and pure chance for the start of life on this planet are equally so remote as to be impossible. If you buy science all matter collected to one huge mass so dense that it exploded into an empty space. At that point nothing was alive but through billions of years matter floated through this empty space and got sucked into orbits of vast balls of burning gases eventually to cool into a solid lump. Then over millions of years this cooled developed an atmosphere oceans formed and land mass then all of a sudden out of the blue microscopic life just happened poof there it is from that all life plants trees bird bees monkeys us developed. You couldnt make it up could you ;)
homealone
08-03-2007, 21:23
well statistically creation and pure chance for the start of life on this planet are equally so remote as to be impossible. If you buy science all matter collected to one huge mass so dense that it exploded into an empty space. At that point nothing was alive but through billions of years matter floated through this empty space and got sucked into orbits of vast balls of burning gases eventually to cool into a solid lump. Then over millions of years this cooled developed an atmosphere oceans formed and land mass then all of a sudden out of the blue microscopic life just happened poof there it is from that all life plants trees bird bees monkeys us developed. You couldnt make it up could you ;)
oooh that is a whole new debate, where is S1lvr when you need him ;)
the best bit, for me, about the 'science' approach is the theory that all the atoms in my body were made in stars, I've always thought that was cool :)
- string theory has, in my opinion, some aspects of spirituality - for example the idea that we can't 'see' the extra dimensions it suggests, because we can't get 'close enough' - but that somehow everything is just a vibrational nuance of one 'fundamental' 'entity', which as Alien said, we haven't been able to describe - 'God' is in us and all around us, perhaps ??
Name 1 religion that doesn't promote fear in some way in order to keep the followers 'in line'?
Elim Pentecostal Christianity. What's your point?
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 22:36
oooh that is a whole new debate, where is S1lvr when you need him ;)
the best bit, for me, about the 'science' approach is the theory that all the atoms in my body were made in stars, I've always thought that was cool :)
- string theory has, in my opinion, some aspects of spirituality - for example the idea that we can't 'see' the extra dimensions it suggests, because we can't get 'close enough' - but that somehow everything is just a vibrational nuance of one 'fundamental' 'entity', which as Alien said, we haven't been able to describe - 'God' is in us and all around us, perhaps ??
in a universe thats allegedly infinite anything is possible :)
homealone
08-03-2007, 22:55
in a universe thats allegedly infinite anything is possible :)
if we understood infinite, it wouldn't be infinite, any more ;) :)
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 23:03
how would understanding it mean it has an end? unless the only way to understand it is to travel to the edge of it either time or distance. I can kinda get to grips with infinity time forwards but infinity distance and infinity time past blows me away. For there to be something now means there must always have been something always a never ending time scale past wow there goes my head again ;)
dilli-theclaw
08-03-2007, 23:06
My Brain Hurts!!!
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 23:12
It does get deep. I think perception can be a strange weird and scary thing depending on what drugs you have either taken now or even years ago hehehehehe> i have to admit in my younger years I dabbled a lot in mind altering substances and I remember one "trip" into the cosmos I come up with....If the universe is an infinate distance in every direction then everyone of us is the centre of the universe" ;)
homealone
08-03-2007, 23:13
how would understanding it mean it has an end? unless the only way to understand it is to travel to the edge of it either time or distance. I can kinda get to grips with infinity time forwards but infinity distance and infinity time past blows me away. For there to be something now means there must always have been something always a never ending time scale past wow there goes my head again ;)
see, to me, 'infinite' has always described something totally, 'out of the box' - beginning and end are just immaterial, and yes I think a 'river' of time is a good analogy, it always runs, imo we were all 'born' in the beginning of time, and have continued to 'be' - through several stellar processes, until we are priviledged to discuss it here :)
dilli-theclaw
08-03-2007, 23:15
Um - SPLAT!!!
That'd be my brains hitting the wall from thinking about it all.
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 23:19
see, to me, 'infinite' has always described something totally, 'out of the box' - beginning and end are just immaterial, and yes I think a 'river' of time is a good analogy, it always runs, imo we were all 'born' in the beginning of time, and have continued to 'be' - through several stellar processes, until we are priviledged to discuss it here :)
But time has existed infinitely before us.There is no begining there is no end only life in linear and finite even our energy will survive beyond our flesh. Thes unanswerable questions have kinda guided me to a faith in God a creator mainly because I can not accept life just happened the whole consciousness has to be more than just atoms
dilli-theclaw
08-03-2007, 23:21
...anyway I'm glad you guys can talk about it :tu:
I, on the other hand, won't discuss what I believe on here as it would just get torn to pieces.
Ah well....
homealone
08-03-2007, 23:26
It does get deep. I think perception can be a strange weird and scary thing depending on what drugs you have either taken now or even years ago hehehehehe> i have to admit in my younger years I dabbled a lot in mind altering substances and I remember one "trip" into the cosmos I come up with....If the universe is an infinate distance in every direction then everyone of us is the centre of the universe" ;)
- ah, but how far away from each other, are we - opposites attract, but otherwise we maintain a 'decent interval' ;)
- younger years, lol, you are nobbut a bain :p:
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 23:27
Yeah but I cant give people the impression im still a bad boy can I lol ;)
homealone
08-03-2007, 23:31
But time has existed infinitely before us.There is no begining there is no end only life in linear and finite even our energy will survive beyond our flesh. Thes unanswerable questions have kinda guided me to a faith in God a creator mainly because I can not accept life just happened the whole consciousness has to be more than just atoms
absolutely - the move from 'just atoms' to us, did happen, but we haven't explained it, yet - but we are here, allegedly :D
zing_deleted
08-03-2007, 23:32
is this the real life is this just fantasy caught in a landslide no escape from reality. hhehehehehe (quoting queen time for bed me thinks ;))
Action Jackson
09-03-2007, 00:29
is this the real life is this just fantasy caught in a landslide no escape from reality. hhehehehehe (quoting queen time for bed me thinks ;))
Here's hoping that the punctuation fairy visits you in your sleep tonight.
Saying that, I don't actually believe in fairies, or unicorns, or omnipresent gods.
Here's hoping that the punctuation fairy visits you in your sleep tonight.
And here's hoping you get a visit from the forum etiquette fairy sometime soon.
Saying that, I don't actually believe in fairies, or unicorns, or omnipresent gods.
I certainly don't have a problem with that - the difference being I won't belittle or criticise you for it.
TheDaddy
09-03-2007, 07:37
Um - SPLAT!!!
That'd be my brains hitting the wall from thinking about it all.
Well at least you didn't walk into the wall this time :D
dilli-theclaw
09-03-2007, 08:20
Well at least you didn't walk into the wall this time :D
Very good :)
---------- Post added at 08:20 ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 ----------
Here's hoping that the punctuation fairy visits you in your sleep tonight..
Here's hoping you don't get in a situation where it's hard to do punctuation, type, or....
Action Jackson
09-03-2007, 10:09
And here's hoping you get a visit from the forum etiquette fairy sometime soon.
Forgive me for finding posts difficult to read and annoying when no/poor punctuation is used.
Everyone who can actually type words generally has a basic grasp of how full stops and commas work, so there's no excuses, just laziness mostly.
Next up: Grammar assassination.
Here's hoping you don't get in a situation where it's hard to do punctuation, type, or....
Erm, yes, indeed. :confused:
fruitbat
09-03-2007, 10:28
Elim Pentecostal Christianity. What's your point?
So what happens to non-believers in this religion then? Do they still get 'saved' come the day of reckoning?
zing_deleted
09-03-2007, 10:38
Forgive me for finding posts difficult to read and annoying when no/poor punctuation is used.
Everyone who can actually type words generally has a basic grasp of how full stops and commas work, so there's no excuses, just laziness mostly.
Next up: Grammar assassination.
Erm, yes, indeed. :confused:
well id rather not be able to punctuate than hold ignorant views and refuse to educate myself as to no longer be ignorant thank you very much
Forgive me for finding posts difficult to read and annoying when no/poor punctuation is used.
Don't worry, you're forgiven.
Everyone who can actually type words generally has a basic grasp of how full stops and commas work, so there's no excuses, just laziness mostly.
How wonderful for you that you've never had to deal with issues such as dyslexia, impaired vision etc. Something tells me your stay on CF will be a short one.
Next up: Grammar assassination.
No, next up: Troll Banning.
And here's hoping you get a visit from the forum etiquette fairy sometime soon.
I certainly don't have a problem with that - the difference being I won't belittle or criticise you for it.
well id rather not be able to punctuate than hold ignorant views and refuse to educate myself as to no longer be ignorant thank you very much
:clap: :clap: For both of you...
So what happens to non-believers in this religion then? Do they still get 'saved' come the day of reckoning?
Elim Pentecostal Christianity isn't a religion. In our faith we don't tend to have many non-believers so I don't think that's something we'd see any point in discussing.
Action Jackson
09-03-2007, 10:55
Don't worry, you're forgiven.
How wonderful for you that you've never had to deal with issues such as dyslexia, impaired vision etc. Something tells me your stay on CF will be a short one.
This is clearly not the case here. Mr barb is obviously an accomplished speller with no impaired vision.
So I am expected to be told repeatedly that I am ignorant, uneducated and a bad person, yet I am not allowed to make a comment about punctuation without the threat of a banning?
zing_deleted
09-03-2007, 10:57
ignorant to the facts not an ignorant person I did post the meaning of the word 2 out of the 3 meanings were not insulting.
My spelling is sorted btw by google toolbar I do suffer from mild dyslexia
This is clearly not the case here. Mr barb is obviously an accomplished speller with no impaired vision.
So I am expected to be told repeatedly that I am ignorant, uneducated and a bad person, yet I am not allowed to make a comment about punctuation without the threat of a banning?
If was threatening to ban you, I'd do it directly and via PM. Let's just call my above post a friendly heads-up for making indirectly and off-topic personal comments.
If you an issue with anything posted here, take it up with a member of the team via PM or email please.
Elim Pentecostal Christianity isn't a religion. In our faith we don't tend to have many non-believers so I don't think that's something we'd see any point in discussing.
I think the question was more "What happens to everyone not of your faith after judgment day?"
fruitbat
09-03-2007, 10:59
Elim Pentecostal Christianity isn't a religion. In our faith we don't tend to have many non-believers so I don't think that's something we'd see any point in discussing.
Sorry, I though it was a religion as it was your answer to the question ‘Name one religion that doesn’t promote fear in some way to keep its followers in line’
So anyway, what happens to people who are not of your faith then?
When a thread on Christianity pops up, I'll be happy to discuss it with you.
Don't worry, faith-bashing threads pop up on here all the time as this one demonstrates.
Action Jackson
09-03-2007, 11:02
If was threatening to ban you, I'd do it directly and via PM. Let's just call my above post a friendly heads-up for making indirectly and off-topic personal comments.
If you an issue with anything posted here, take it up with a member of the team via PM or email please.
Fair enough.
I do apologise for the personal attack. I suppose we all have our moments of frustration and say childish things in the heat of the moment.
---------- Post added at 11:02 ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 ----------
Elim Pentecostal Christianity isn't a religion. In our faith we don't tend to have many non-believers so I don't think that's something we'd see any point in discussing.
Do you not believe in the devil like other christians?
Yeah I do, and as I stated above I'll be happy to discuss it with you when a thread on Christianity pops up.
Apology accepted btw.
Action Jackson
09-03-2007, 11:10
Yeah I do, and as I stated above I'll be happy to discuss it with you when a thread on Christianity pops up.
I'm tempted to do so, but given my record so far it would probably be the final nail in my coffin. :D
Ok, not to deviate too much but just to reply to your point; surely if you are taught to fear the devil, then your religion does promote fear in the same way as any other religion (you will be punished if you don't do X,Y or Z etc).
Elim Pentecostal Christianity. What's your point?
I'm confused, is Elim Pentecostal Christianity a religion or not as the question was name one religion that doesn't promote fear in some way in order to keep the followers 'in line'?
If it's a religion, and a valid answer, then what happens to non-Elim Pentecostal Christians on judgement day?
If it's not a religion, why use it as an answer?
Genuine interest here Russ
Ok, not to deviate too much but just to reply to your point; surely if you are taught to fear the devil, then your religion does promote fear in the same way as any other religion (you will be punished if you don't do X,Y or Z etc).
My church does not teach us to fear anything.
I'm confused, is Elim Pentecostal Christianity a religion or not as the question was name one religion that doesn't promote fear in some way in order to keep the followers 'in line'?
If it's a religion, and a valid answer, then what happens to non-Elim Pentecostal Christians on judgement day?
If it's not a religion, why use it as an answer?
Because Action Jackson is assuming anyone who follows Christ is part of a religion - I used that word so he'd know what I was talking about.
As for your question, my above answer stands.
Genuine interest here Russ
As opposed to the usual?
Action Jackson
09-03-2007, 11:20
My church does not teach us to fear anything.
But you are taught that if you are bad (stray from your faith) then you will be sent to the devil. That in itself must perpetuate a fear surely?
Because Action Jackson is assuming anyone who follows Christ is part of a religion - I used that word so he'd know what I was talking about.
Bit confused.
How can you be a follower of Christ and not be part of a religion? You said you are part of a 'Christian' organisation, so how is that not deemed religious/a religion?
My church does not teach us to fear anything.
So you can't name a single religion that doesn't promote fear to control it's followers in some way.
As opposed to the usual?
As opposed to your usual assumptions.
zing_deleted
09-03-2007, 11:22
buddhism
Action Jackson
09-03-2007, 11:26
buddhism
The Buddhist devil is known as Mara; the lord of misfortune, sin, destruction and death.
fruitbat
09-03-2007, 11:30
So you can't name a single religion that doesn't promote fear to control it's followers in some way.
I don't think there are any to be honest, that's why I was so suprised at the original statement. However it turns out that it's a faith not a religion and he dosen't seem prepared to discuss it anyway.
buddhism
It's not a religion, it's a way of life man! ;)
But you are taught that if you are bad (stray from your faith) then you will be sent to the devil. That in itself must perpetuate a fear surely?
Would you agree you have no idea what my church teaches, seeing as it's likely you've never been there?
How can you be a follower of Christ and not be part of a religion? You said you are part of a 'Christian' organisation, so how is that not deemed religious/a religion?
Easy. I'm not religious. I don't follow a set of rules. I live my life in way which makes sense to me.
So you can't name a single religion that doesn't promote fear to control it's followers in some way.
There are countless religions around the world, far more than you and I could name. Not mentioning specific ones does not mean they don't exist.
As opposed to your usual assumptions.
Not sure what that means - you said 'genuine interest here", I was just wondering why you felt the need to point that out.
zing_deleted
09-03-2007, 11:34
http://www.drepung.org/resources/kbase/faq/2.cfm
It's not a religion, it's a way of life man! ;)
orangebird
09-03-2007, 11:37
I thought Buddhism was a philosophy rather than a religion...
Action Jackson
09-03-2007, 11:39
Would you agree you have no idea what my church teaches, seeing as it's likely you've never been there?
You are correct.
I wasn't having a go because, like you say, I have no idea what your church preaches. Just genuinely curious and asking an honest question.
By following Christ but not living by the rules that are set out by the Christian bible, then surely that means that you will not be accepted into heaven (according to the church)? Or do you mean that you don't believe some of what is said in the bible relating to this and believe that simply worshipping Christ will be enough to allow you to enter heaven when you die?
zing_deleted
09-03-2007, 11:42
I thought Buddhism was a philosophy rather than a religion...
I think the Depung Loseling institute Centre for Tibetan Buddhist studies might know ;)
By following Christ but not living by the rules that are set out by the Christian bible, then surely that means that you will not be accepted into heaven (according to the church)? Or do you mean that you don't believe some of what is said in the bible relating to this and believe that simply worshipping Christ will be enough to allow you to enter heaven when you die?
What I mean I'd be more willing to discuss this if it was on topic.
There are countless religions around the world, far more than you and I could name. Not mentioning specific ones does not mean they don't exist.
Indeed, was just confirming like the rest of us, you too cannot name a religion that doesn't promote fear in some way to control it's followers.
Not sure what that means - you said 'genuine interest here", I was just wondering why you felt the need to point that out.
You've often accused me (wrongly) of christian bashing, lumping my posts in with those of other forum members who poo-poo religious belief/faith despite my many attempts via PM to clarify my stance on the subject of theology.
I have made it clear what aspects of the god of Abraham as described by the bible I object to and the reasons why, and considering the original subject matter of this thread being JW's and their fixation with judgment day, I have avoided discussing that aspect of christianity which I object to.
Given your past accusations of my intentions, I felt it was prudent to show assurance that I was interested in a full and factual response.
I hope that clears the matter up.
:tu:
Action Jackson
09-03-2007, 11:48
I think the Depung Loseling institute Centre for Tibetan Buddhist studies might know ;)
There are many branches of Buddhism. Tibetan Buddhism (aka Northern Buddhism, Tibeto-Mongolian Buddhism, or Vajrayana) is just one of them.
Each branch has their own interpretation of Buddhism and individual set of beliefs.
Indeed, was just confirming like the rest of us, you too cannot name a religion that doesn't promote fear in some way to control it's followers.
Absolutely - and on the same token I'm assuming you'll agree that there's nothing to suggest that all 'religions' use fear as a form of control?
You've often accused me (wrongly) of christian bashing, lumping my posts in with those of other forum members who poo-poo religious belief/faith despite my many attempts via PM to clarify my stance on the subject of theology.
That's a matter of opinion but please continue....
I have made it clear what aspects of the god of Abraham as described by the bible I object to and the reasons why, and considering the original subject matter of this thread being JW's and their fixation with judgment day, I have avoided discussing that aspect of christianity which I object to.
In which case you should be avoiding questioning my beliefs altogether here yes?
Given your past accusations of my intentions, I felt it was prudent to show assurance that I was interested in a full and factual response.
Somehow, given our previous discussions, I feel such assurances are wasted. However I certainly am impressed with the name you've been using to refer to Christ. Keep up the good work.
By the way just to remind everyone. this thread is regarding JWs.
Action Jackson
09-03-2007, 11:51
What I mean I'd be more willing to discuss this if it was on topic.
Fair enough, but although the thread was originally about JW's, I think I can safely say that it has deviated from that into a debate on religion (which is no bad thing, not much mileage in the JW's).
Therefore, no harm in answering/keeping it in here rather than generating a new thread I reckon.
dilli-theclaw
09-03-2007, 11:59
Fair enough, but although the thread was originally about JW's, I think I can safely say that it has deviated from that into a debate on religion (which is no bad thing, not much mileage in the JW's).If you believe there is no more milage in this thread I Can close it for you?
Therefore, no harm in answering/keeping it in here rather than generating a new thread I reckon.Most threads have a degree iof topic drift.
If you want to start a new topic entirely then you should start a new thread on it.
I should warn you, however, that many (if not all) religious threads seem to decend into arguments and end up being closed - so good luck with that.
The team don't have a problem with discussion as long as people can discuss without resorting to personal abuse.
TheDaddy
09-03-2007, 15:42
Indeed, was just confirming like the rest of us, you too cannot name a religion that doesn't promote fear in some way to control it's followers.
What about Spiritualism and Wicca?
What about Spiritualism and Wicca?
Wicca has the negative energies, fearing the threefold law don't they?
As for spiritualism, which one?
Many Heathen religions cover demons and devils, and of course who can forget Ragnarok? (which if you look at it basically predicted the death of the old gods, which happened when christianity took over).
JediMaster
10-03-2007, 17:16
If you believe there is no more milage in this thread I Can close it for you?
I'm suprised it was not closed ages ago.... Its gone way OFF topic :dozey: & now its a Free for All.
Flowergirl
20-11-2012, 23:44
There is no hope for me then, still with only 144,000 allowed in, there there is going to be a rush when they open the gates. Or will it be season ticket holders only ?
Hi there i am a Jehovah's witness and whoever wrote this 101 rules obviously isn't, as most of them are wrong and as for the 144,000 that's who are going to heaven, but don't worry you have a hope to, everyone does of living together on earth forever in wonderful conditions, no more sickness or growing old like God origionaly intended.
but don't worry you have a hope to, everyone does of living together on earth forever in wonderful conditions, no more sickness or growing old like God origionaly intended.
Sounds like hell.
we like being sick and growing old.
Flowergirl you do realise you have posted to a thread that has been virtually dead for 6 years?Many of the contributors have moved on from the site.
I hope you will look around the site and find some more up to date threads you can feel you can participate in..and welcome to Cable Forum.
Flowergirl
21-11-2012, 00:06
Fancy a career as a Jehovah's Witness?
Firstly it isn't a career its a way of life.
You just have to adhere to/believe in the following:
P.S. I wonder who sets the rules for number 57. :D Answer- The Bible
1. Jehovah God is the only true god.
2. The doctrine of the Trinity is inspired by false religion.
3. Jesus Christ is the first creation of Jehovah.
4. The Holy Spirit is not a person but is "God's active force" i.e. gravity, electricity etc.
6. Heaven is limited only to 144,000
7. Jehovah's Witnesses are the only true Christians
8. There is no Hell (It is simply the grave)
9. There is no life after death until the resurrection.
10. Salvation is by good works and been faithful.
12. Jesus is not to be worshiped or prayed to
13. Jesus did not rise from the dead bodily but as a spirit being
18. All governments are controlled by Satan
19. You cannot take a blood transfusion
20. You cannot be a police officer
21. You cannot salute the flag, stand for the national anthem, or own a flag
22. You cannot serve in the military
24. there are 2 meeting at the kingdom hall per week.)
30. You cannot celebrate any holidays (Christmas, Easter, etc.)
31. You cannot celebrate your birthday
32. You cannot run for or hold a political office
33. You cannot vote in any political campaign
34. You cannot serve on a jury
36. You cannot speak to former members who are shunned (disfellowshipped)
40. Angels direct the Watchtower organization
41. Jesus did not die on a cross but on a steak.
42. You cannot own or wear a cross
43. You must report your witnessing activity to the elders
44. You must go from door to door as Jesus did.
54. Women cannot pray in the presence of men without a hat
55. You cannot have a tattoo
56. You forbidden to use any tobacco products
57. Sex is between to married people.
73. One must study the Bible at least six months before he can be baptized
74. Before baptism, one must answer questions in front of a panel of elders
75. Most of The Book of Revelation applies to the prophecy of the last days.
76. You cannot celebrate Mothers or Fathers day
81. God only speaks through the "Governing Body" in Brooklyn, New York
83. The Lord's supper is only to be eaten by select Jehovah's Witnesses (144,000 of Jehovah's Witnesses are forbidden from taking the Lord's supper)
84. The Lord's supper can only be offered once per year
90. If you leave Jehovah's Witnesses or are expelled from the organization you will not be resurrected
97. You cannot be involved in martial arts, boxing or wrestling
99. You cannot donate blood when you die
i have deleted all the ones i know are wrong and corrected the ones remaining so they are right.
Flowergirl you do realise you have posted to a thread that has been virtually dead for 6 years?Many of the contributors have moved on from the site.
I've never read the thread before now.
number 49 is scary.
49. A child abuser is reported to Watchtower elders and not the police
there's only 2 reasons as to why they want to hear about it first before the police do. and I fear it may be the second one :(
Flowergirl
21-11-2012, 00:15
thanks well im new to these things. a lot of you prob thing im an old woman who is all religious and prim and proper but am 22 and i have spent time not been a Jehovah's witness and i went back to the religion because i can see there beliefs are reasonable. I most certainly hate been sick and i have to say i don't like the thought of growing old.
---------- Post added at 00:15 ---------- Previous post was at 00:12 ----------
well that is untrue of course the police are informed i have a child myself and i would want to protect him from pedos.
rogerdraig
21-11-2012, 02:21
1. 1. Jehovah God is the only true god.
2. The doctrine of the Trinity is inspired by false religion.
3. Jesus Christ is the first creation of Jehovah.
4. The Holy Spirit is not a person but is "God's active force" i.e. gravity, electricity etc.
6. Heaven is limited only to 144,000
7. Jehovah's Witnesses are the only true Christians
8. There is no Hell (It is simply the grave)
9. There is no life after death until the resurrection.
10. Salvation is by good works and been faithful.
12. Jesus is not to be worshiped or prayed to
18. All governments are controlled by Satan
19. You cannot take a blood transfusion
21. You cannot salute the flag, stand for the national anthem, or own a flag
24. there are 2 meeting at the kingdom hall per week.)
30. You cannot celebrate any holidays (Christmas, Easter, etc.)
31. You cannot celebrate your birthday
32. You cannot run for or hold a political office
40. Angels direct the Watchtower organization
41. Jesus did not die on a cross but on a steak.
42. You cannot own or wear a cross
44. You must try to go from door to door as Jesus did.
54. Women cannot lead pray in the presence of men without a hat
57. Sex is between to married people.
74. Before baptism, one must answer questions in front of a panel of elders
75. Most of The Book of Revelation applies to the prophecy of the last days.
76. You cannot celebrate Mothers or Fathers day
83. The Lord's supper is only to be eaten by select Jehovah's Witnesses (144,000 of Jehovah's Witnesses are forbidden from taking the Lord's supper)
84. The Lord's supper can only be offered once per year
90. If you leave Jehovah's Witnesses or are expelled from the organization you will not be resurrected
97. You cannot be involved in martial arts, boxing
99. You cannot donate blood when you die lol didn’t know any one did but if this is about organ donation then thats a personal choice ;)
Deleted the wrong ones as its been brought back up
---------- Post added at 03:21 ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 ----------
I've never read the thread before now.
number 49 is scary.
49. A child abuser is reported to Watchtower elders and not the police
there's only 2 reasons as to why they want to hear about it first before the police do. and I fear it may be the second one :(
totaly wrong we would comply with what ever law that was in place and we do a far site better at removing them from the congregation than the BBC did
Flowergirl
21-11-2012, 13:23
haha thats a good one. are you a jehovahs witness?
tizmeinnit
21-11-2012, 13:54
there are a few of them that are incorrect
Flowergirl
21-11-2012, 14:24
quite alot actually like we can't play chess or wear jade jewelry.
We have some JW's that call around regularly, they're very nice people and I amhappy to converse with them.
They leave me the latest copy of Watchtower and the other mag, which I will read - on occasion.
I find the literature to be quite amusing, I especially like the "was it designed or did it evolve" regular feature. Which asks was it designed by a higher power ot did it happen by chance? The fact they use the phrase happened by chance proves that they totally fail to grasp exactly what evolution is.
I alsolove the way they quote a line of scripture and then derive a whole raft of meanings from it.
But hey, they're nice people so let them carry on.
Flowergirl
22-11-2012, 20:48
Next time they come round, converse with them about evolution and ask there opinions on it. We do not fail to grasp what evolution is as we most likely have learned it at school or elsewhere in a book. But whether it's true is another thing.
idi banashapan
22-11-2012, 23:01
we have a guy at work who is a JW. nice guy. although he has made his beliefs known, he has never ever forced them. if he doesn't like something, he leaves the room without saying anything.
we have had some interesting discussions about evolution and the universe, et cetera. as much as I respect his beliefs, I do have trouble accepting the fact that he seems to think just because we cannot explain something fully given our current knowledge of the universe/physics/evolution, that it automatically must be 'magic' or 'spiritual', as aforementioned, the process of evolution for example. he is very stubborn in his views even when presented with physical evidence to the contrary. it's kinda scary. like he has trouble thinking about something himself, but instead just parroting what he has been told and is blind to the illogical stuff he is saying.
still, each to their own. it's not hurting me or anyone else as far as i know, and if it makes him happy, then there is nothing wrong with it in my view.
I'm not inviting Jehovah's Witnesses OR members of the Latter Day Saints into my house.If you invite them in you have a tough time getting rid of them.
In fact I hate all cold callers and can't see why I have to put up with pushy religious types thinking they have a right to come and preach at me or leaflet me in my own home.
How would they like it if I reciprocated about atheism and bothered them endlessly at their own front door?
rogerdraig
23-11-2012, 00:48
I'm not inviting Jehovah's Witnesses OR members of the Latter Day Saints into my house.If you invite them in you have a tough time getting rid of them.
In fact I hate all cold callers and can't see why I have to put up with pushy religious types thinking they have a right to come and preach at me or leaflet me in my own home.
How would they like it if I reciprocated about atheism and bothered them endlessly at their own front door?
i thought thats why they invented power company sales reps ;)
we on the other hand wont come in unless invited ;) and we dont tie you in to a contract if we do :)
:angel: me
TheDaddy
23-11-2012, 06:08
Did we ever establish the hat etiquette in number 54...
we on the other hand wont come in unless invited ;) and we dont tie you in to a contract if we do :)
Neither did Dracula. ;)
As for contracts, you may not make people sign on a dotted line, but you most certainly try make sure that after a time their only friends are those inside the Watchtower organisation - then, if they later step out of line and are threatened with being disfellowshipped, that threat is effectively a threat to cut them off from their friends too.
The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is a cult, run by an organisation in New York that insists only it knows the word of God and which makes a lot of money selling books on the subject.
tizmeinnit
23-11-2012, 11:04
Neither did Dracula. ;)
As for contracts, you may not make people sign on a dotted line, but you most certainly try make sure that after a time their only friends are those inside the Watchtower organisation - then, if they later step out of line and are threatened with being disfellowshipped, that threat is effectively a threat to cut them off from their friends too.
The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is a cult, run by an organisation in New York that insists only it knows the word of God and which makes a lot of money selling books on the subject.
that is a very prejudiced view from someone who from another Christian religion.
They are no more a cult than yours or Russ's faith. Strange though is it not that it seems perfectly ok to be prejudiced towards a JW than it is to be towards a Muslim? JWs actively avoid violence and must refuse to fight in wars etc certainly with Jihad being preached the same can not be said about Muslims
They do not make a lot of money selling books btw they give them away . Witnesses give donations of their choice they are not forced to give a percentage or anything similar.
I had friends outside the congregation. I was never threatened with disfellowship and still have not been now even though I am inactive
Surely your minister says he knows the word of god? seeing as the word of God is the bible if he does not he is not doing a very good job is he??
Honestly I was a witness for a number of years and what you say happens does not happen in any of the congregations I have been involved in you ideas are jaded and inaccurate. I am afraid to say no mater who has told you what you do not know what you are talking about
---------- Post added at 11:04 ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 ----------
I'm not inviting Jehovah's Witnesses OR members of the Latter Day Saints into my house.If you invite them in you have a tough time getting rid of them.
In fact I hate all cold callers and can't see why I have to put up with pushy religious types thinking they have a right to come and preach at me or leaflet me in my own home.
How would they like it if I reciprocated about atheism and bothered them endlessly at their own front door?[/
They and I would love the opportunity to discuss the matter they would welcome you and be friendly as they would with anyone. They would remain calm and collected and speak kindly to you or any other visitor. And when you leave they would not slag you off to others or be unkind and they certainly would not be angry aggressive or feel any negative emotion.
I tell you something you will not find a more content group of people with no fear of death or society
People who were Witnesses, and who are no longer Witnesses. ;)
Re: "no more a cult" ... not so. The Watchtower Society is a pseudo-Christian cult in that it advocates a series of beliefs and practices that are based in Christianity but at odds with the orthodoxy.
Regardless of whatever else they may disagree about, orthodox Christians all over the world, of all denominations, accept and agree on the divinity of Jesus Christ. The Watchtower Society does not. (Neither does the Church of Latter Day Saints, a.k.a. Mormonism, which is another cult).
.... The Watchtower Society is a pseudo-Christian cult ...Church of Latter Day Saints, a.k.a. Mormonism, which is another cult).
Both are classified as religions, not cults. According to the Guardian, anyway.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/page/0,,818217,00.html
tizmeinnit
23-11-2012, 12:58
People who were Witnesses, and who are no longer Witnesses. ;)
Re: "no more a cult" ... not so. The Watchtower Society is a pseudo-Christian cult in that it advocates a series of beliefs and practices that are based in Christianity but at odds with the orthodoxy.
Regardless of whatever else they may disagree about, orthodox Christians all over the world, of all denominations, accept and agree on the divinity of Jesus Christ. The Watchtower Society does not. (Neither does the Church of Latter Day Saints, a.k.a. Mormonism, which is another cult).
oh dear the trinity. "forgive them me they know not what they did" oh and the story of John the Baptist. I walking into the water and John dipped me then I flew down and anointed myself with me then because having me inside me it was so hard to deal with that I went into the wilderness to talk to myself for 40 days" The word Trinity does not appear in the Bible neither does the word hell so how can they exist theocratically? Also the name Jehovah was removed by English translators in the middle ages. Oh and have you ever sung bread of heaven? originally Guide me, O Thou great Jehovah, How can you worship in Gods name when you deny him it???? whether you think its Jehovah Yahwah or YHVH it still is a name and not just God
CofE and their derivatives created by a king so he could sleep with other women.
RC created by a Roman Emperor because he decided Christ was real although in reality the church of Christ was started by Christ and preached by his followers
Well I was a witness myself so I have first hand experience which trumps your second hand experience as hearsay
---------- Post added at 12:51 ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 ----------
Both are classified as religions, not cults. According to the Guardian, anyway.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/page/0,,818217,00.html
he is just openly being prejudiced
---------- Post added at 12:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 ----------
Chris the difference between you and me is I respect your right to choose who you have faith in. I believe your faith is incorrect but I respect you have a faith . You on the other hand disrespect my faith disrespect how JWs practice their faith and are prejudiced towards them
Which of these two is the meeker approach? and after all the "meek will inherit the earth"
I don't care whether they are a cult or a religion they can BO..Same for Scientology nutters and the money making group Moonies.
I will however welcome the local vicar or parish priest with pleasure because they are part of the community I live in and won't be looking to indoctrinate me.
dilli-theclaw
23-11-2012, 13:23
They and I would love the opportunity to discuss the matter they would welcome you and be friendly as they would with anyone. They would remain calm and collected and speak kindly to you or any other visitor. And when you leave they would not slag you off to others or be unkind and they certainly would not be angry aggressive or feel any negative emotion.
I tell you something you will not find a more content group of people with no fear of death or societyUnfortunately this was completely the opposite to what I experienced when I lived in Biggleswade.
Not had any visit here yet though so I'm more than prepared to give them another go.
We often get them around here on a sunday. I have a note on my letterbox saying 'No religious material thank you' and they leave me alone. The only kind of such religious material I'd be interested in I already have enough of so as long as they can be as respectful as I am on the note then live and let live.
oh dear the trinity. "forgive them me they know not what they did" oh and the story of John the Baptist. I walking into the water and John dipped me then I flew down and anointed myself with me then because having me inside me it was so hard to deal with that I went into the wilderness to talk to myself for 40 days" The word Trinity does not appear in the Bible neither does the word hell so how can they exist theocratically? Also the name Jehovah was removed by English translators in the middle ages. Oh and have you ever sung bread of heaven? originally Guide me, O Thou great Jehovah, How can you worship in Gods name when you deny him it???? whether you think its Jehovah Yahwah or YHVH it still is a name and not just God
CofE and their derivatives created by a king so he could sleep with other women.
RC created by a Roman Emperor because he decided Christ was real although in reality the church of Christ was started by Christ and preached by his followers
Well I was a witness myself so I have first hand experience which trumps your second hand experience as hearsay
---------- Post added at 12:51 ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 ----------
he is just openly being prejudiced
---------- Post added at 12:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 ----------
Chris the difference between you and me is I respect your right to choose who you have faith in. I believe your faith is incorrect but I respect you have a faith . You on the other hand disrespect my faith disrespect how JWs practice their faith and are prejudiced towards them
Which of these two is the meeker approach? and after all the "meek will inherit the earth"
Set your meekness in the context of Jesus clearing traders out of the temple with a whip. ;)
Unless I'm missing something here, I've not at any point attacked your right to believe in anything. You believe whatever you want. I will exercise my right of free speech to tell you what I think of the teaching of the Watchtower and you can exercise yours in return. Or not, whichever you choose.
What I have done is point out that what the Watchtower teaches is at odds with orthodox Christianity. Even if the Watchtower was correct, and all orthodox Christian denominations were wrong, that would still be factually the case. The Watchtower claims to be Christian while rejecting the central belief of all other Christians for two millennia. That meets the definition of 'cult'.
Flowergirl
23-11-2012, 14:03
I'm not inviting Jehovah's Witnesses OR members of the Latter Day Saints into my house.If you invite them in you have a tough time getting rid of them.
In fact I hate all cold callers and can't see why I have to put up with pushy religious types thinking they have a right to come and preach at me or leaflet me in my own home.
How would they like it if I reciprocated about atheism and bothered them endlessly at their own front door?
I think hate is a bit of a strong word. Also think of it this way, say someone knew there was going to be a terrorist attack would you rather them keep it to themselves or would you rather them come to your door and warn you about it?
Better been warned about gods judgement day than it coming and you wishing you had listened to the people on your door.
The witnesses are nice people and in there eyes they are just trying to save your life not cause a nuisance.
---------- Post added at 14:03 ---------- Previous post was at 13:58 ----------
oh dear the trinity. "forgive them me they know not what they did" oh and the story of John the Baptist. I walking into the water and John dipped me then I flew down and anointed myself with me then because having me inside me it was so hard to deal with that I went into the wilderness to talk to myself for 40 days" The word Trinity does not appear in the Bible neither does the word hell so how can they exist theocratically? Also the name Jehovah was removed by English translators in the middle ages. Oh and have you ever sung bread of heaven? originally Guide me, O Thou great Jehovah, How can you worship in Gods name when you deny him it???? whether you think its Jehovah Yahwah or YHVH it still is a name and not just God
CofE and their derivatives created by a king so he could sleep with other women.
RC created by a Roman Emperor because he decided Christ was real although in reality the church of Christ was started by Christ and preached by his followers
Well I was a witness myself so I have first hand experience which trumps your second hand experience as hearsay
Can i ask why you arn't a witness now?
I think hate is a bit of a strong word. Also think of it this way, say someone knew there was going to be a terrorist attack would you rather them keep it to themselves or would you rather them come to your door and warn you about it?
Better been warned about gods judgement day than it coming and you wishing you had listened to the people on your door.
The witnesses are nice people and in there eyes they are just trying to save your life not cause a nuisance.
Trouble is they are never right ,numerous predictions about judgement day and never get it right ,instead they change the rules to give another date which proves wrong again .Be honest with yourself Witnesses have no more idea when Armageddon will arrive than anyone else
tizmeinnit
23-11-2012, 14:21
Set your meekness in the context of Jesus clearing traders out of the temple with a whip. ;)
Unless I'm missing something here, I've not at any point attacked your right to believe in anything. You believe whatever you want. I will exercise my right of free speech to tell you what I think of the teaching of the Watchtower and you can exercise yours in return. Or not, whichever you choose.
What I have done is point out that what the Watchtower teaches is at odds with orthodox Christianity. Even if the Watchtower was correct, and all orthodox Christian denominations were wrong, that would still be factually the case. The Watchtower claims to be Christian while rejecting the central belief of all other Christians for two millennia. That meets the definition of 'cult'.
That is not actually true is it? You have the God clause remember ;) who are you with Chris?
---------- Post added at 14:21 ---------- Previous post was at 14:17 ----------
Can i ask why you arn't a witness now?
I am just inactive I could go back anytime. I found the life very hard to live but I miss the feeling of family.
That is not actually true is it? You have the God clause remember ;) who are you with Chris?
---------- Post added at 14:21 ---------- Previous post was at 14:17 ----------
I am just inactive I could go back anytime. I found the life very hard to live but I miss the feeling of family.
I'm not God, even here ;)
At present I'm in leadership at a Baptist church but I don't consider myself to belong to any denomination.
tizmeinnit
23-11-2012, 14:36
I'm not God, even here ;)
At present I'm in leadership at a Baptist church but I don't consider myself to belong to any denomination.
you know what I meant there is no freedom of speech here ;)
Anyhoo that is irrelevant and these discussions only bring out the worst in people . Never discuss religion or politics I should follow that doctrine :)
Flowergirl
23-11-2012, 14:50
Trouble is they are never right ,numerous predictions about judgement day and never get it right ,instead they change the rules to give another date which proves wrong again .Be honest with yourself Witnesses have no more idea when Armageddon will arrive than anyone else
You are right, I could have my own opinion say i think it could possibly come within the next 5 years but that's not me predicting it, for know one knows the time or day it will come only god knows that.
I think if a witness says they think it will come next year it gets misinterpreted and people think its a prediction that it will definitely come.
---------- Post added at 14:50 ---------- Previous post was at 14:39 ----------
That is not actually true is it? You have the God clause remember ;) who are you with Chris?
---------- Post added at 14:21 ---------- Previous post was at 14:17 ----------
I am just inactive I could go back anytime. I found the life very hard to live but I miss the feeling of family.
I got reinstated a year ago. i Got disfellowshiped when i turned 18 because i too found it hard, I started smoking and living an immoral life and missed my family.After 3 years I decided i would try to go back i got married to my boyfriend, quit smoking and after 6 months i was reinstated. When out the truth i always believed you sound like you do too. Thing is if your mind is focused it actually isn't as hard as i thought it was. I understand what you are going through but trust me when i say if you put Jehovah first you will reap great blessings.
dilli-theclaw
23-11-2012, 14:54
I just find it a great shame that some ruin it for others Not just with JW's.
I just find it a great shame that some ruin it for others Not just with JW's.
True you get that in any walk of life. Football fans, nightclubbers, internet users, police, politicians etc etc
Being part of a club, gang, company, collective, organisation, community or indeed a religion, belief or faith does not automatically mean that person is exempt from troublemaking.
rogerdraig
23-11-2012, 21:58
Did we ever establish the hat etiquette in number 54...
if leading in prayer with a man ( baptized ) then they would wear a head covering
note this is not to show any sort of inferiortity to the man but out of the respect to the headship though Jesus to Jehovah
also i might point out due to current events that all JW's male and female are considered to be ministers
I'm an ordained Minister.
I am Reverend ***** **********
Ordained by the Universal Ministries
http://www.universalministries.com/
I was going to do a Joey from Friends, and marry some friends I know.
I didn't. But I'm still a Rev.
also i might point out due to current events that all JW's male and female are considered to be ministers
Not to the point that it gives them any rights in law though. They could not be able to conduct a legally-recognised marriage for example.
idi banashapan
26-11-2012, 21:03
forgive my ignorance - I am not religious. But isn't religion about creating peace among people? don't most, if not all religions preach tolerance and acceptance of those around you? about listening to one another and not judging others? to stand together and all that jazz?
ironic, looking at some of the comments in this thread.
---------- Post added at 21:03 ---------- Previous post was at 21:00 ----------
I don't care whether they are a cult or a religion they can BO..Same for Scientology nutters and the money making group Moonies.
I will however welcome the local vicar or parish priest with pleasure because they are part of the community I live in and won't be looking to indoctrinate me.
who's to say that Christians are not equally as 'nuts'? just because they claim to have been around longer than, say, Scientology, does not mean they are right, nor sane to be believing there is a bloke in the sky watching everything you do all the time... what gives the magic sky pixie the right to decide if what I do is right or wrong?
“If one does not understand a person, one tends to regard him as a fool.”
Carl Jung
tizmeinnit
26-11-2012, 21:08
At the end of the day mankind has looked to the stars and wondered why are we here throughout its existence. Science has come so far but still knows very little about reality the same could be said about those who follow religions. I believe in creation over evolution because I can not believe life just happened in a primeval swamp and no one can explain infinity time past to me . I just think there is more than we can see. Maybe that makes me mad but that's not for another man to judge :)
idi banashapan
26-11-2012, 21:16
At the end of the day mankind has looked to the stars and wondered why are we here throughout its existence. Science has come so far but still knows very little about reality the same could be said about those who follow religions. I believe in creation over evolution because I can not believe life just happened in a primeval swamp and no one can explain infinity time past to me . I just think there is more than we can see. Maybe that makes me mad but that's not for another man to judge :)
but just because we as a very, VERY young species in terms of the universe as we know it now cannot explain everything in detail yet, does not mean it's magic, surely?
I can't explain why one girl can make me laugh, cry, feel alive or hurt so bad, but I'm not inclined to say "well, I'll blame it on wizardry". to me, it makes no sense that people who follow religion can reject the idea of evolution just because we can't explain every stage yet, but they are happy to accept the idea there is a man sat on a cloud constantly judging us... it defies logic.
tizmeinnit
26-11-2012, 21:34
but just because we as a very, VERY young species in terms of the universe as we know it now cannot explain everything in detail yet, does not mean it's magic, surely?
I can't explain why one girl can make me laugh, cry, feel alive or hurt so bad, but I'm not inclined to say "well, I'll blame it on wizardry". to me, it makes no sense that people who follow religion can reject the idea of evolution just because we can't explain every stage yet, but they are happy to accept the idea there is a man sat on a cloud constantly judging us... it defies logic.
why does it have to be logic? you appeared to ask peoples opinions but then when you get one you belittle my view as me believing in magic. If you think about it reasonably the belief in the coming together of all mass and then exploding outwards and then after later the appearance of "life" out of nowhere could be seen as magic could it not?
Believe in whatever makes you comfortable and does not infringe on someone else's right to hold whatever belief system makes sense to them.
tizmeinnit
26-11-2012, 21:39
Believe in whatever makes you comfortable and does not infringe on someone else's right to hold whatever belief system makes sense to them.
Agreed I only talk about religion when asked about it or see questions here for example. I do not push my beliefs onto anyone although most atheists constantly try to push theirs on me
Flowergirl
27-11-2012, 00:55
Agreed I only talk about religion when asked about it or see questions here for example. I do not push my beliefs onto anyone although most atheists constantly try to push theirs on me
I can see its in your heart do the right thing :)
TheDaddy
27-11-2012, 01:48
Believe in whatever makes you comfortable and does not infringe on someone else's right to hold whatever belief system makes sense to them.
Shame believing in nothing doesn't give the same respect in a lot of peoples cases.
It all balances out when you consider how much evangelising is done by many of the 'believers of nothing'.
Shame believing in nothing doesn't give the same respect in a lot of peoples cases.
I think 'believers in nothing' are equally likely to be found lacking in respect for 'believers in something'.
Respect is the key. Ultimately, someone is right and someone is wrong and it's perfectly legitimate to discuss the issues and disagree over them. It's how you go about disagreeing that matters.
idi banashapan
27-11-2012, 09:28
why does it have to be logic? you appeared to ask peoples opinions but then when you get one you belittle my view as me believing in magic. If you think about it reasonably the belief in the coming together of all mass and then exploding outwards and then after later the appearance of "life" out of nowhere could be seen as magic could it not?
apologies - I did not mean to come across as belittling. that was by no means my intention. my point was that I, personally, cannot grasp how one can outrightly reject some pretty substantiated evidence along with theories borne of said evidence, but instead claim to believe in something that has no physical evidence at all.
I suppose that's what faith is about, and also shows how we all differ in what we choose to consider the truth. Personally, I can't see how just because we don't hold all the answers yet means we should automatically fall back on supernatural explanations.
again, apologies if you thought I was trying to belittle you - not my intention at all. of course you are more than entitled to believe whatever you like. as long as it does not hinder you as a person, hold you back or stop you from flourishing, or use whoever's name as a reason for your own actions, there's no harm. unfortunately, I have too often seen people suffer due to the above. I do sometimes wonder if religion can actually create more problems than not, but that in no way applies to each and every person who chooses to believe in a God or Gods.
apologies - I did not mean to come across as belittling. that was by no means my intention. my point was that I, personally, cannot grasp how one can outrightly reject some pretty substantiated evidence along with theories borne of said evidence, but instead claim to believe in something that has no physical evidence at all.
It's not an 'outright rejection'. For some inexplicable reason there is a perception amongst a lot of atheists that for believers the outlook is all very 'black and white' with absolutely no grey areas at all. This may be valid in small minority cases but for reasons unknown many only want to cite them as examples.
Rather than 'outright rejection' it's more a case of looking beyond what is considered fact. That doesn't mean rejecting, denying or ignoring it. Just entertaining the possibility that as well as what is established, there may just be more to what we already know.
---------- Post added at 10:39 ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 ----------
apologies - I did not mean to come across as belittling. that was by no means I do sometimes wonder if religion can actually create more problems than not,
I'd say it's more misunderstanding religion (by people on all sides) that causes the problems.
tizmeinnit
27-11-2012, 10:37
apologies - I did not mean to come across as belittling. that was by no means my intention. my point was that I, personally, cannot grasp how one can outrightly reject some pretty substantiated evidence along with theories borne of said evidence, but instead claim to believe in something that has no physical evidence at all.
I suppose that's what faith is about, and also shows how we all differ in what we choose to consider the truth. Personally, I can't see how just because we don't hold all the answers yet means we should automatically fall back on supernatural explanations.
again, apologies if you thought I was trying to belittle you - not my intention at all. of course you are more than entitled to believe whatever you like. as long as it does not hinder you as a person, hold you back or stop you from flourishing, or use whoever's name as a reason for your own actions, there's no harm. unfortunately, I have too often seen people suffer due to the above. I do sometimes wonder if religion can actually create more problems than not, but that in no way applies to each and every person who chooses to believe in a God or Gods.
there are questions science will never be able to answer like where did the matter come from that come together and created the universe. What was there before. Where did that come from? what was there before and so on.
How can there not have been a start to any of it? this universe the last universe the universe before that? Science says this universe is billions of years old ( of course time is a human concept and pretty meanignless) so what was there before how long was that there? how many billions of times has it happened? infinity
who's to say that Christians are not equally as 'nuts'?
Simply because there's too many of them.
but if they ever did count them as being so. then there would be an awful lot of nutters.
forgive my ignorance - I am not religious. But isn't religion about creating peace among people? don't most, if not all religions preach tolerance and acceptance of those around you? about listening to one another and not judging others? to stand together and all that jazz?
ironic, looking at some of the comments in this thread.
---------- Post added at 21:03 ---------- Previous post was at 21:00 ----------
who's to say that Christians are not equally as 'nuts'? just because they claim to have been around longer than, say, Scientology, does not mean they are right, nor sane to be believing there is a bloke in the sky watching everything you do all the time... what gives the magic sky pixie the right to decide if what I do is right or wrong?
“If one does not understand a person, one tends to regard him as a fool.”
Carl Jung
Actually if you knew me you would know that as an atheist I defend the rights of any person to follow and worship in any faith.What I don't respect is people who bother me at my own door to try and drag me into their faith and I've no respect for religions/cults that are nothing but a means to get massive amounts of money out of their 'flock' and become excessively rich as a result.I also am highly suspicious of any faith,cult,religion that separates families. Then there are the cults that use faith to hide darker deeds such as sexual abuse.
Those I cannot have respect for.
But Christians,Sikhs,Hindus,Buddhists,Muslims I'll defend their right to their faith to the death. All I ask that they too respect my right not to believe in a deity/deities in a similar fashion.
jempalmer
27-11-2012, 13:24
Actually if you knew me you would know that as an atheist I defend the rights of any person to follow and worship in any faith.What I don't respect is people who bother me at my own door to try and drag me into their faith and I've no respect for religions/cults that are nothing but a means to get massive amounts of money out of their 'flock' and become excessively rich as a result.I also am highly suspicious of any faith,cult,religion that separates families. Then there are the cults that use faith to hide darker deeds such as sexual abuse.
Those I cannot have respect for.
But Christians,Sikhs,Hindus,Buddhists,Muslims I'll defend their right to their faith to the death. All I ask that they too respect my right not to believe in a deity/deities in a similar fashion.
As a Christian Maggy, all I can say is :clap:
But Christians,Sikhs,Hindus,Buddhists,Muslims I'll defend their right to their faith to the death. All I ask that they too respect my right not to believe in a deity/deities in a similar fashion.
Quite, provided that respect extends to children of school going age.
Quite, provided that respect extends to children of school going age.
As far as I'm aware as a teacher it does.No one is forced to worship another deity of a different faith and all schools I've been to have an assembly that is non faith based aimed at all pupils of all faiths(and non faith) which are about basic tenets of kindness,generosity,hard work,obeying school rules,and awarding merit in sports,science,maths,english,drama etc.
Those who do not want to take mandatory RE lessons are free not to.They are usually accommodated in some other way with a free lesson to do other work of their choice.
Indeed. There is another common misconception that agreeing to RE in schools somehow equates to accepting those beliefs.
TheDaddy
27-11-2012, 16:18
I think 'believers in nothing' are equally likely to be found lacking in respect for 'believers in something'.
Respect is the key. Ultimately, someone is right and someone is wrong and it's perfectly legitimate to discuss the issues and disagree over them. It's how you go about disagreeing that matters.
Not equally in my experience, people of faith I know are similar to what Russ said where as quite a few atheists I know are quite militant and only to ready to tell people they're.wrong, normally in quite a barbed way invoking fairy stories and the like.
;)http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=23995&d=1354033990
Roffle ... I had to un-friend someone on FB who just couldn't get past the fact I post faith-related stuff on my FB profile and don't expect those who read it to treat it like a forum debate ...
I enjoy teaching RE in school.I find it very educational because I learn a lot about other people and it gives me a greater understanding of their cultures.
tizmeinnit
27-11-2012, 17:17
;)http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=23995&d=1354033990
if only
Roffle ... I had to un-friend someone on FB who just couldn't get past the fact I post faith-related stuff on my FB profile and don't expect those who read it to treat it like a forum debate ...
lol yes, I've got a few of those too.
It was a rare mistake - very, very few of the people on my friends list are people I've not met in 'real life'. Rectified now though.
rogerdraig
27-11-2012, 23:02
Neither did Dracula. ;)
As for contracts, you may not make people sign on a dotted line, but you most certainly try make sure that after a time their only friends are those inside the Watchtower organisation - then, if they later step out of line and are threatened with being disfellowshipped, that threat is effectively a threat to cut them off from their friends too.
The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is a cult, run by an organisation in New York that insists only it knows the word of God and which makes a lot of money selling books on the subject.
I have many friends outside of the organization you will always get some who wont associate outside of any organization or faith but they are by no means the norm
and talking to anyone wont get you disfelowshipped
---------- Post added at 23:02 ---------- Previous post was at 22:59 ----------
Not to the point that it gives them any rights in law though. They could not be able to conduct a legally-recognised marriage for example.
any one can now apply to do that as far as i am aware though i got married at a registry office any way :) and a woman married us ;)
dilli-theclaw
10-01-2013, 10:58
Unfortunately this was completely the opposite to what I experienced when I lived in Biggleswade.
Not had any visit here yet though so I'm more than prepared to give them another go.......and I had a visit this morning,
I invited them in for a cup of tea and had a nice chat about different aspects of their faith and mine.
It was a good informative experience - completely night and day compared to the last time I had an encounter :)
So I though I'd post my positive experience to counter my really bad one.
I'm glad you had a nice friendly chat, but it will be interesting to see if they now have you down as a 'potential' - let us know if they come back, and how soon. ;)
tizmeinnit
10-01-2013, 11:56
......and I had a visit this morning,
I invited them in for a cup of tea and had a nice chat about different aspects of their faith and mine.
It was a good informative experience - completely night and day compared to the last time I had an encounter :)
So I though I'd post my positive experience to counter my really bad one.
That is how it is mean't to be :)
---------- Post added at 11:56 ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 ----------
I'm glad you had a nice friendly chat, but it will be interesting to see if they now have you down as a 'potential' - let us know if they come back, and how soon. ;)
how does your church gain new members ? :)
dilli-theclaw
10-01-2013, 12:00
That is how it is mean't to be :)
---------- Post added at 11:56 ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 ----------
and it's nice have a good experience - you know how bad it was befire :) - but I'm (generally) open to trying new things so forgive and forget and all that ;)
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I'm glad you had a nice friendly chat, but it will be interesting to see if they now have you down as a 'potential' - let us know if they come back, and how soon. ;)They should be back in a couple of days with the literature in braille. We'll see what transpires then.
tizmeinnit
10-01-2013, 12:02
and it's nice have a good experience - you know how bad it was befire :) - but I'm (generally) open to trying new things so forgive and forget and all that ;)
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They should be back in a couple of days with the literature in braille. We'll see what transpires then.
The Awakes and Watchtower from this months editions ( I still get them regularly) are a lot thinner than before and even the JWs have moved towards advising people to use the net to read up where there is more back ground to what is in the mags
how does your church gain new members ? :)
I don't know about Chris but with our lot, people usually just turn up.
If they're moving people to the net how does the Watchtower organisation make money? I thought they got it by selling literature.
tizmeinnit
10-01-2013, 12:16
I don't know about Chris but with our lot, people usually just turn up.
You know my position an how I am none practicing but this is my view on the ministry seeing as I used to do it and I mean in no way to belittle anyones faith or anything
Now I know you have faith Russ you believe in salvation that Christ died for mans sins and because you are a faithful servant to God you will be rewarded with ever lasting life. Every Christian believes the same thing
Now you have this precious gift to give people you know in your heart that you can save people from either Hell or an end to existence whichever you believe in but you keep that gift and promise from them because you do not preach.
Now look at Christs example the sermon in the mount he shouted about the promise the gift the chance for everlasting life in paradise. He did not keep quiet he did not stay somewhere waiting for people to come to him he went out there and told people of what they could have if they followed him and had faith in the lord God almighty
The Jehovah's Witnesses wholeheartedly believe they are telling people of this promise they have hope and go out with a full heart . What they are trying to achieve is selfless
All I am trying to do here is to try and get across the reasons why you get this knock on the door. These people believe they are offering you a great gift and get treated really bad but still keep on doing it because they truly believe. Now I respect them for that not hate them
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If they're moving people to the net how does the Watchtower organisation make money? I thought they got it by selling literature.
they have never sold literature members are free to donate what they want there is no limit or rule and the amounts given by individuals does not get recorded you put it in a box at the meetings. People who take mags at the door should not be asked for money but are free to donate. I never "paid" for any of my books and even now as a none practicing member I can still have the books when they come out free
Bare in mind I have not been active for over 10 years most likely yet still I get visits and support from members even now. Think this is a side very few here would ever have considered
<snip>
I see it as 'each to his own' - I can understand why someone from any faith goes knocking on doors, I can see why they may approach people in the street. Neither are for me - I think to actively seeking out 'potentials' I think you need to be a good enough representation of whatever faith you are affiliated to and I don't see myself anywhere near that level. If someone wants to ask me things about it then I'll do my best to answer.
It can be annoying when they knock on your door but I have a sticker on mine saying "No religious material please" and since it went up I've never had anyone from any faith coming to the house.
tizmeinnit
10-01-2013, 12:24
I see it as 'each to his own' - I can understand why someone from any faith goes knocking on doors, I can see why they may approach people in the street. Neither are for me - I think to actively seeking out 'potentials' I think you need to be a good enough representation of whatever faith you are affiliated to and I don't see myself anywhere near that level. If someone wants to ask me things about it then I'll do my best to answer.
It can be annoying when they knock on your door but I have a sticker on mine saying "No religious material please" and since it went up I've never had anyone from any faith coming to the house.
That is exactly the reason I stopped
rogerdraig
10-01-2013, 23:14
If they're moving people to the net how does the Watchtower organisation make money? I thought they got it by selling literature.
the money we used to get from the literature was in the main ploughed into providing free literature to the countries we were under ban in ( Russia being the biggest ) now that is not the case we give it away though we will always accept donations :)
we ( the organisation ) mostly gets the money to run it then and now from donations from the congregations themselves
I would point out that we dont have a paid clergy
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